Can The Opposition Beat PM Modi? Freebie Culture, Putin & Trump | Ruchir | FO408 Raj Shamani

34:17What is capitalism? What is essential? For me, capitalism is that you give the people as much economic freedom, the better is. For me, capitalism means economic freedom. Capitalism and socialism in simple language. Capitalism is that people if it is pure capitalism today in capitalism there are distortions that are another thing pure capitalism is that you have the government's role is minimal and the individual's role is more than the socialism is over that the government will plan for you to do what you need and the individual will follow the government so this is a basic concept that is in the socialism and capitalism and so we talk about economic freedom and economic freedom now the new revolution which you are seeing around the world is crypto do you think crypto will ever replace the US dollar?

35:11I am quite bullish and I also wrote that the dollar which is dependence on the world has been very much and this is not a good thing so if there is a substitute coming, now no currency is not coming, like the last time if there was a currency very dominant like dollar before pound was born. Pound before French franc was born. Spanish currency, Portugal before, Dutch. So, a kind of currency always is very dominant. But if it is very dominant and more than 100 % of its life, it comes to the end. It is strange that after the dollar currency, there is no currency. Like China's currency, it doesn't trust.

35:53Because you don't know that the communist government is what you do with your money. with crypto or gold is a big deal. And I think this will continue. Generally. Even today you feel crypto will go up and gold will go up? In my opinion, in the next 500 years crypto use will be more than that. In terms of that. So a general trend is that. This means that the gold has been$100 ,000 dollar हो गया है यह मतलब मैं जब मैंने पहले crypto के बारे में लिखा था उस time वो 10 ,000 की ऊपर गया था अब 10 ,000 होना चाहिए 100 ,000 होना चाहिए crypto को value करना मुझे आता नहीं है पर यह बात की dollar का जो दुनिया है वो एक dollar पे तना dependent not be able to be this one this one this one my conviction that change will gradually change will change it can be either gold or crypto that's your main focus and two reasons is one is it is so that the how to make the dollar sanctions.

37:09And the other thing is that America's problems are people who don't talk about it today. But America today, their debt has so much increased, their deficit is so high. So there are also fundamentals that people should not put their money in one country. And they should not put one currency. They should not diversify. The dollar will always be important. But it should not diversify. I think it's fair. which makes a lot of sense and this is why all gold believers and crypto believers believe that there will be a lot of dependency this will be a time when the sentiment will grow and then it will change that's right because no one is so bullish that is globally accepted apart from dollar that's why there is hope that maybe currency will not be a different medium that's right crypto bitcoin is also a front runner in this particular thing but will this all the governments will will they go against it or in for that's a different question.

38:09Yeah but governments these are just out of the governments. Okay. I mean Trump accept it. I mean crypto capital I mean crypto capital. Yeah. I mean crypto crypto I mean it's just dams very big. And I don't know what the fair value is. Because 5 years ago when I when I was writing dams 10 ,000 today dams 100 ,000 is not the fair dham. So, dham can be done. But crypto as a concept is here to stay. Do you have bitcoins? I personally, that's the biggest mistake I am saying, but I don't put my money where my mouth is. You've never bought? I've not bought bitcoins yet. Not, never, no crypto. Yeah, because Bitcoin, nothing.

38:55My biggest problem, as we as investors are, is that we manage the other money. manage करने में, अपना खुद का पैसा अच्छा manage करने में कम रह जाते हैं Help me out, you met Putin, आप Vlaad Amir Putin से मिले हो and आपने बोलाए कि उन्होंना आपको impress भी किया, तो कैसे उनसे मिले, क्यों मिले ना impress की बात नहीं, यह क्या हुआ था कि 2010 2010, I worked for the time for the Morgans. So, it was something in 2010 that I had a conference in Moscow. And I was going to go to that conference. So, it was something October. I think that the conference was 10 days before I got a phone that you are coming to the conference and you write and you do all this.

39:46And Putin will also be in that conference. And we want to We want to come and do a presentation in the conference. We want to tell Russia how the economy is doing. I said okay I'm coming, I'll do this presentation. And I told you to open the door, frankly. What you want to tell Russia about it, how the economy is doing. I took advice seriously. I want to tell Russia about it. I said, I have a full presentation prepared. I have reached here. I went to stage. When I went to stage, Putin was sitting there. I started my presentation. I didn't know that it was live on national TV. Because it was in Russia.

40:42I started it and addressed it. Putin and I said that when you came in the first year, you did a lot of things that you did. Because that time Russia was full chaos in 2000. And that time, what you did, Russia was stabilized. But in the past 5-7 years, Russia was again who corrupt in the country and these are the factors that corruption is you have no brand as well as we think if vodka is Russia is but if the world the top five brands in vodka there is Russia no name and I have all the problems I have to talk now when I was when I was talking live in the hall I felt like I felt like I felt like Sonata that's fail right that people feel like what are you saying?

41:42I went to go to the presentation and Putin sat down and they had notes. So I had my presentation done. I thought that some of the signs were gone but I had to finish it. Then I went to go and I went to sit and sat down. Then Putin said that my presentation was always Russian. They were always Russian. They were never English. I listened to translation. in my presentation. You said, you said, I have referred to it and referred to it but you said, these are things we will see etc. I said, okay, I acknowledge it. In the morning morning, the new head of Morgan Stanley came to me, that you have what did.

42:31I said, why don't Russian paper read the page that made Russian papersode

42:46don't read Russian paper? Russians you said that Russia has all these problems. And the press that I know in Russia, I know that the Kremlin, which is the government that controls the whole press. So the message came clearly to the government and to the people who came to this, that you can discredit it. So, for me, a lot of attack launched in Russia. The press came all this. The Morgan Stanley office was in Moscow.

43:50me. That that I was in Russia. In terms of that, because I have a advice given that I have no official trip. So this is my Putin encounter with me. So when I was writing Breakout Nations, I wrote a thing that if any leader if he has a power in power and has a success to achieve, there is a lot of probability that the success in his mind and they go to the other's opinion and listen to the other people. It doesn't have interest in it. It feels like everyone knows everything. If someone is talking about something, then they are all anti-national people. They mean, let's take this out. I thought that Putin's attitude changed after 10 years.

44:38People talk about Putin, they don't understand how Putin changed. They are now 20 years old. But when he came in the past, parr me aay thay woh joh putin thah or joh putin 10 sal baad or 20 sal baad hai woh bhoat different hai. To ye mele niye learning experience rahi. Or dousra yeh raha ki Morgan Stanley may bhi yeh mujhe baad me malum ha ki wahan pe pora mtlab politics chalhi thi ki isko nikalou firm se. Isne ake mtlab pura dhanda kharap ke. To jab aap kishi large firm me kam karate hai to aap kitna freely bol saktay ho. Isper bhi kafi paabindhi rheti hai. You know in terms of how much you can say.

45:19But this I always, I always, I always I always emphasize that that my freedom of speech and I always write what I want that I always write and what I always say that I always say. If I always Morgan Stanley leave this for me, then leave it. But I always compromise that I always compromise. What do you think Russia, Russia's president, Prime Minister, Leaders, whatever they are. There are many times that they are very long and iconic. Vladimir Putin being one of them. Putin's traits that the other leaders should follow. Because he must have done something right. Nation, top five economies doesn't come in top five.

46:04Top ten doesn't come in top ten. He doesn't come in top ten. He doesn't come in top ten. But when he talks about leader power, he always comes in top five. What is his way to do? If you have such power and you have such power and you have such I think he did it that he would produce many benefit delivery as a if you see China government if you look ahead if you look ahead in the last 100 years which people should have described against him then if I would call a Jennifer saying that which I might talk didn't come there I changed and

46:41didn't change or doesn't he did what he did. If you have to live in the power, how do you do the opposition to do the other thing? And the other thing, you project a strong man's image. And one thing I see, like my incident, which I have said, is poker faced. You don't know what they are thinking about it. Is it good or bad? I guess, playing games is a good thing. that you can't know what you did, you don't know what you did. Now, I think I've met many leaders. Today, the most impressive thing was Indonesia leader. Jokowi. Now, they're the opposite of their own. If you'll meet Jokowi, he was 10 years old.

47:30But 10 years later, he lost his term. So, he lost his term. He was very popular. He was so many years old. In terms of that. and Indonesia's economy was under quite a good time there was no big boom but quite a good time if you get them they are so friendly down to earth they are so rooted that they have a different impression their legacy for Indonesia is better in terms of that compared to Putin's legacy because legacy is what will happen okay that Russia was done in the beginning of the year, for 4-5 years, it was very good that Russia was stabilized. Because that time, Russia was breaking after Soviet Union, and it was completely chaos in Yellowstone.

48:22So, that was stabilized. And that's why they gave credit for it. And I've said that in speech. But after that, what they did in Russia, and the fact that they have made an economy, is. If we have top 10 economies in India, we don't have to do it. We don't have to do it. We don't have to do it. We don't have to do it. We don't have to do it. Because India's rankings have been in the past 10-20 years in the past 10-20 years. The impact has been on the top 10-20 years. In terms of that. But if Russia's talking about it, then the rankings are going to do it. So Putin has what did it? Which means that.

48:56Which means that. Which means that. If you just have success that you have to live in power, in the world. And you have to see that it is a strong country. When your economy is not strong enough, it's okay. That's success. True. You know, my friend is a friend who works with a lot of global leaders. And he said something very nice. You met Dubai as a leader? Yes, I mean, the crown prince I mean, I met. UAE. Yes, UAE. But MBAs, not but MBZ who they have not but their children who they have met. Who? Who they have crown prince who have known. Faza? I don't remember the name but crown prince number 2 who they have known.

49:45Okay. So he met Dubai's leader, right? The main leader Muhammad bin MBZ who he has Sheikh Zayed, right? exactly and he was you meet their leader and you meet one of the world's other leaders who technically dictator is autocratic after that you never feel like you have a minute feeling that he is a dictator you feel like you have met somebody who is a people's person who is very friendly he is not as a poker face who is just as an ideology U.A.E. or Dubai I will make the best and I will take the top level that's it and you are so small I didn't have anything in front of him after that he doesn't make me feel that hey I am the dictator and I rule this particular place he doesn't make people feel he was talking about how world's democratic leaders they feel like they can't go without them and they can't go away and to me that was very fascinating and I think maybe that is also one of the reasons that Dubai is doing so well that they know that they can't move on.

50:59There is no rule that you can vote or not. Then they deal with that in the world that if we can move on, we can move on and keep our friends. We don't have the world because of our way. We are here only to serve. And Singapore also, their leaders are always like this. Lequan News also, if you write a book I will write about which many impressive leaders in the world. Singapore's leaders. Singapore's Lequan UB is also a part of that. And today, when I meet Singapore's president, he is in terms of Indian origin, he is also a kind of a bright person in any profession. So, he is a leader. I have a leader in the world.

51:51I have never met with MBZ. But I have met with Singapore as a leader. Or I have never met with South East Asia. I have met with leaders. I have never met with a thing. I have seen traits. I have met with all politicians. Like Thailand, KB etc. The leaders and politicians are one of the important qualities. That is their personal charisma. that you are uplifted. You know, like you think that you think that you leave the camera with a bright smile on your face. Agreed. And this means I always say that in India when the leader doesn't do so good, the most important thing is that if he doesn't feel so that's a big drawback with the public.

52:48Lasting impression. Lasting impression, I'm saying that in terms of the number one trait of a successful politician, I think that when you get him, you feel that in terms of that you feel good about yourself. Yeah. That is the number one trait of a successful politician. That I think that art our PM Modi has mastered. Like you meet him and you feel like there's a lasting impression. In fact, Dr. Jay Shankar, if you meet him, you'll feel the same thing. Nezhan Gatkari sir you meet him you feel the same thing these are like in my personal experience I can tell like every time I have been in the same room or have met these people it's that feeling in Indian politicians in many politicians you will take a state chief minister you know for example even people like Akhilash etc you can disagree with them in terms of that or just state govern but when you get you like in terms of one on one unka sense of humor or etc you know like you'll be quite impressed by it.

53:50Other things you can be quite so politics go separate but personal charisma Indian politicians are very strong. I've met many Indian politicians when you meet them you leave the camera and say this is it. That's the reason why he's in terms of etc. Lalu was so angry when we met him. they know, they all know in terms of that. So I'm saying Indian politicians across the board, this is a lot of them. True. This is quality, but generally across the world, most successful politicians, like America, maybe. If you look at the most successful leaders, if you look at it in terms of the track record, it was Bill Clinton.

54:31And I also got to get a lot of them, but it was always the quality of them, that they will see in the camera that who is not impressed with them and target them that they will how they will impress them. So nice. Like George Bush, I mean I have interviewed for our two years. I have interviewed extensively for two years. George Bush was president from 2001 to 2009. and personal level, there was a lot of controversy in the US. That Iraq war did, what did he do. But when I met him with personal level, when I was interviewing him, he was so angry at you. His sense of humor was the best sense of humor of any person I've met.

55:29His sense of humor was the best. interesting like episode I remember that I had interviewed him in 2011. Bush or Clinton? Bush. George Bush said that I was talking about in 2011. I had interviewed him and it was a very free-wheeling interview. I asked many questions to my clients. Then in 2016 I met him in 2016. I look at him and he says that he said that he didn't change 500 people and he didn't change suit change he didn't do it he was wearing so you know sense of humor and after the interview after the interview see how good the thing is at my home a personal handwritten note was reached to thank me for the interview and what I like to thank you and what I like personal handwritten note was reached two days after the interview was reached so these little and how they are happy and present.

56:36These are successful politicians. What are your views on Trump? Why do you win elections? What do you think? Trump's two things are. One is that if you look at the whole world, in the developed world particularly, what is happening? There's a lot of anti-establishment feeling. That whatever establishment is, we'll go to the same thing. Because people... And I have written this. in terms of what went wrong of capitalism which we have written in the book that we have written that we have written that the average person in western societies in America or Europe that we think that the economic system is not working on our work like the housing prices that are so expensive education costs that are so expensive and the opportunity is set that is so limited for us for us in that place we are stuck, geography or income mobility.

57:37These are very deep structure issues. Trump's figures are known as how to tap. These are grievances for people. When you don't have so much wealth, so you feel like people are out of the country, immigrants are out of the country. These people are out of the country, our culture spoils so Trump all these factors tap this is quite in terms of that so I think that's the reason why figures like Trump have been doing well I feel there are two reasons you talk more about it first I think because his business brain has very data driven populism understanding that he can from the data from the data we can strongly understand where they will be popular and how they use the media to influence the particular state.

58:34And that he did very well. He used the podcast, his rallies, other leaders and conversations, influential entrepreneurs and other people who were leading the particular Indian origin or other origins,

58:51that was very smart and data driven at least look back that one thing was very standing second it's more of an experience opinion which I'm trying to share with you I think that when chaos happens in any country and people are lost, authoritarian leaders because when the chaos of this situation comes to power project that I am powerful, I am a stance and I will do this I am not scared of anyone, I will not be scared of anyone at that time people are pleased usually they don't perform that well as authoritarian leaders and probably Trump has project and that's why they have a lot of benefit do you think so?

59:38Yes, it can happen but I will tell you about two factors in terms of to put this in a society global perspective if you see that in fact India in my opinion a coin was made it's anti-incumbency that means whatever power is that it will go if you see India then state or national elections and the most people in India when our true democracy 1977's because it was one party rule more than leaders here election had same time if you see US and developed world in the same time most of the period leaders election won the election which was in power in the election won the election in the last year what happened in America and Europe and in the developed world in the most of the leader power in power, that election goes out.

1:00:44And first of all, America's case in the US, we saw that the party in the White House, that's the three elections, one-two-three. So, first of all, in 2016, the Democratic Party, Obama's party, that's the Trump's first. In 2020, Trump's first. And in 2024, Biden's party, the Democratic Party's first. you're Trump surprise So this rocking has beenlarını

1:01:15you're רוצes Germany countries which touched

1:01:37which I've touched So people think that they are so dissatisfied with the leaders. Because in every place, in the developed world, Japan, Germany, France, the US, those who are leaders in power, they are very much resentment. And that's why they are coming. When you were 10-20 years before, you had the chance to win. If you were a good chance, you had the chance to win. You had the chance to win 50 % higher. Because you have the whole world, television, media, all are behind you and you have the visibility. You have the job to win. George Bush, Bill Clinton, Bill Clinton, so many leaders elections were winning in terms of that.

1:02:18Interesting. That can be probably true. Yeah. Dissatisfaction level is increasing. Yeah. Or maybe the patience level is lower. Yeah, patience is lower. You should say that… One year in one year, there was a change that was promised in five or ten years. Yeah. That it was social media or what it was. That means it was more than that. But this is also interesting. interesting is that I have seen the trend. I have written it in fact. So, this is the developed country. But the emerging markets are developing countries, which we play in India, such as India, here we see the trend. India, in fact, the anti-incumbency has changed a little.

1:02:59If you look at India, then the more data, the past 15 years the more government elections are winning. So, it's not a state level. If you look at state level, which was already back. Yes, back. Why is this happening? So, it's a very interesting difference. What is happening in developed countries? What is happening in developed countries? That there are leaders who are going to be released? And the developing countries like India, Indonesia, Mexico, the party in power was going to be back. So, it's a very interesting difference. and I think I'm thinking a lot about this. One is that we talk about India.

1:03:43What is happening in India? The most important trend that I have in India is the digitalization trend. What is happening? It's happening in 1980s. When Rajiv Gandhi had a very memorable statement. He said that if we spend 1 euro for 1 euro, then only 15 people have reached. which is the balance of corruption, power brokers, intermediaries, all of them eat. So, people were very sad to say, that you are promised us that we are only 1 rupee, and we are only coming to 15 bucks. That was their analysis. What happened in the past 10-15 years, I think that because of the adhaar and the digitalization, which is the country, bank accounts, etc., That's why now when politicians have promised to them, that money is in their bank account.

1:04:43Which also promised to them. This has been a big change in India. And this has been a lot in emerging markets. That money was being paid for, now that money is getting paid for people. It's still getting paid for people, but it's getting paid for them. So that's why in Russia, when the government promised to them, that you see in your bank account like for women special schemes launched that you have so much money came before it didn't happen so what happened in India incumbencies because of anti-incumbencies which was in India it was reduced and talking about developed countries versus emerging countries right in maybe ab dekho do-teen jage trends similar right and first let's talk about little developed nation Canada that Canada may be Justin resigned right and he's saying ki we resign kareenge agar koya unka successor miliya why do you think he's doing that now I have in the last year that if you look at Canada worst performing economy in the entire developed world if we talk about the last 5-6 years, then we are in Canada.

1:06:04Why? Look at the per capita income. So, Canada has so bad per capita income because the per capita income has been in the last 10 years where we are not. So, I think that it's a big factor that in Canada, not to have any such technology as in the US, which has so good technology firms, Canada has not so good and there is a government that has a very very much in their economy. So, people are very worried about it. Because there is no business growth. So, Canada's economy is one factor. My focus is on economics. So, my bias is the idea that I see every thing. But in Canada, there is a big factor that the economy has been in the past five years.

1:06:54It has been quite bad performance. Donald Trump said that he was a 51 state. they have. No, that's what people say about Mexico and they joke about Mexico is the 51st state of America. So, if Canada is the state of America do you think it will perform better? No, I have said that there are two things. If you look Canada, then long term perspectives are Canada quite good for us. In the last 10 years in terms of I don't know in terms of America people are not happy. If people are so happy in America So, they bring the party back to the last 10 years. You just told me that Trump's victory is such a thing.

1:07:39Because in the last 4 years, the people who did not do it in the last 4 years, they were so happy. The inflation was so high. Now, the last 4 years, the US average inflation rate was higher in India. In terms of that, 2-3 years for it is less. True. and culture how is US and India do you think US and India freebies culture good economies US would be like freebies in fact US in fact if I see my biggest concern US economy and I have written that the role of the government is very big and the welfare payments are very big and partly Particularly, it really feels like it's welfare payments, when people had inaugurated örnews in America, if we see here today, the fatal problem of the single goal is what is that the people in America have been a big role with amazing hairs on the globe.

1:08:44The American fiscal deficit, which we want to find out, is very large. So, if there's a problem in the next summer is Arnold, in the next two years, so this is the most important thing that the government has its role is very big and the government is spending so much on the welfare and other things, it has not been so much on its own. So the biggest problem in America is this. Do you think that freebies culture is good? No, freebies culture is good. How can it be? It can not be. In India, it has to balance. because there are many poor people who need this, so we need to give a little bit. But if you look at China, if you look at China, we understand that China is a communist country.

1:09:37But when China was 10-11 % growth, it was no free money. It was full capitalism. You go, go and get a job. If you get a job, you will see what you want to do. they didn't get any freebie or anything if you have 1000 miles to go to work then go to work so we have seen migration that coastal cities were quite growth in the east so many people have gone to work but if you need 10-11 % growth China I know, growth needs to be a freebies culture. You can't do this. You can't do this. There are two rules. But if a party changes, if someone has a freebies, you can see it. Yes. So, you can see it. Which one has a freebie, the large pool of votes, large pool of votes, which one has a freebies.

1:10:36Yes. Yes. So, you can say, that freebies, you can ask me if freebies are good or not. There are two things. If politics and votes are good, they are good. are if you have 10-11 % growth for 10-11 % growth, then you will lose 10-11 % growth. See, you will learn the whole world and emerging economies, right? Then, there is a problem of US that you have said that polarization is a lot. Every state to state depends on something. Satisfaction level or dissatisfaction. So, the country is divided into a small faction and mentality. So, the problem is that it is internal problem. China Silver tsunami Which is That Their aging population Is Many people age But Young people Are not Birth rates Are not In fact There is a prediction A study That 2030 To China One fourth Of the population 60 and above Which is A very big population So Silver tsunami Is That So China Is Aging Population US Problem Is Your internal conflict.

1:11:42Russia game may not be economic point of view say Germany, Japan France in some predicted India is more than growing. But what do you think? India has what will be if India will grow up to 10-11 % in India? India will be 10-11 % growth. Why? Because we have no idea that we have China reformed. That we don't give freebies or people to go and go and work.

1:12:30do you feel that India or China's growth growth will not be able to get. No, we are outgrow because China's growth rate is gone. But in the level we are reaching to the level of time. If China's per capita income $3000, China's $10 ,000 to the top of it. If China's in the next 10 years it's growth rate 2-3 % and our 6-7 % then we will come to 20 years to the top of it. China's So you tell me, top three rules in terms of successful nation. Top three, I can't tell you, because I think all 10 are good. But in terms of, I have a lot of about this. I can give some illustrations. One thing I have said, political leader.

1:13:19That maximum reform, I can tell you, which country is going to be, when a new political leader comes, and that country is going to face any problem. Because I feel like that, time, that leader will come and change the maximum. Because people also want to change the change. Because often we say that leader has changed. But if the country is doing well, people say that what is need for change. So, the most important change in the country is that there is a new leader and that will change the change in terms of that. So, political rule, I say that. So, sentiment changes the whole. Yes, in terms of that.

1:13:54So, it's the political rule. Okay. The second one is my favorite. My second one is that in terms of that demographics I am very careful that no country is not where the population is growing will grow fast. So in terms of demographics is a necessary but not sufficient condition for high economic growth. So that is a very important rule that I will say. And the third rule I mean if I tell you this is always that if developing countries remain that that currency is like we think if currency is correct, then okay. But currency is as easy as it is, it will be better because it will increase your exports.

1:14:39And other people will come in. So stable and cheap currency is a very important rule for a country to do well. So currency is powerful to be no sense. Yes, absolutely. It will be a good deal. Interesting take. So do you feel that the bigger people become, not just in government, in normal people, if they become a billionaire, they become rich, they hate people. They bash billionaires. People have a little bit of a hate chart. They have a little bit of a big man. It's a little bit of a big man. I think people have aspirations. And when you talk about rule, there was a very important rule that I wrote in the book.

1:15:21That was based on the on the billionaire index that if the billionaire is in the country if the billionaire is very much then the problem is left and which industry is in the billionaire? I think that if the money is in the billionaire if people think that if people think that they have the government to favor or dostie then they think that people like to do that and the other one that if people who make money, or make money, or make money, or manufacture, then I feel like people are much more than love and respect. So it's very important that you have to create a wealth creation. And the second thing I believe is that if you have a wealth, if you have made a whole of respect, then you have a lot of respect.

1:16:14If you have a wealth of wealth, inherited, that you have not, but if you have a family khandani ho to to thowdy kam respect miltie hai so it's very important to distinguish this but jjadat agar ameerika mein dekho ya india mein dekho india mein bhi agar aap jjadat dekho to me lagtata ki jjoh billionaire loog hai jjadat loog unko oopar dekhtae ki you know unho kafi achieve kara jiasse abhi ratan tata guzre to kitnye sare unke mt logon ne a a a

1:16:50way out of which way. But if you see the Ammanis at this point, they are loved. They are not very hated. They are not very hated. So, they love them. But in those two sectors, two things you have said, they inherited. That is first. And then second is government involvement. But they are still loved. I am talking about general balance country. So, if you have all these roles in India, there are a lot of problems. But if you look at India for 10 years, many billionaires who have come here, manufacturing, technology, some quick commerce, in terms of chemical industries, they have spread a lot of wealth from different billionaires.

1:17:39So, I don't think that I have a lot of problems I don't think people are in terms of that. So, it's like a balance. I think the balance is more important. Do you think India, without the government involvement, you can become multi-billionaire? I think technology companies have shown it. The entire Infosys, Wipro, like stories before the decade and in the past 10 years, if you look at the technology sector that has been built in the technology sector, they have been built in the government. Yes, it's made of it. So, like I say about India, this is the country, this is my favorite quote, which I always say about India, this is the country that consistently disappoints the optimist and the pessimist.

1:18:27So, whatever you say about optimist, you will get disappointed. If you say something about pessimist, then you will be disappointed over time. So, this is my line about India. That, I love it. That's so true. That's so true. I am a very irrationally optimist and I see everything positive side of everything and I enjoy it. But it happens that then you get disappointed. And my friends are pessimists and they are disappointed. It's so true. It's so true. Would you say you are an optimist or a pessimist? No, I am fundamentally an optimist. But But your views are very analytical. People don't say that you are pessimistic.

1:19:08What do you want to say? My My thing is how to think, like how to think which is different from the herd. So my whole thing is always. I started writing for the economic times, which I was 17 years old. So after that, I started writing. And my entire thing was how to write and how to think in a way which is provocative. That you have to think something and that whole herd is not thinking. So that's always my main objective. Perfect. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure having you. Thank you, Raj. Thank you. Very interesting. 12th year, you have more interest. So, I'm saying that many people say, what do you mean?

1:19:50Look, in school, there were a lot of intelligent people. They were good at school. Some of them were top. But my only advantage was that I knew exactly what to do. Because there were many people who knew what to do. So, they were top subjects. but if you have any passion or interest then you can be jack of all trades but master of none so I think this is probably an advantage thank you so much for watching this episode end to the end now I have to do three things first of all, subscribe to this channel because as much as you subscribe we will get better and valuable guests for you number two, tell me in the comments what did you feel good and bad so that we can repeat the mistakes and which guests you want to see in our podcast so that we can take them and give you more value.

1:20:47And number three, you have to share this episode with someone else because one conversation can change someone's life. I'll see you next time. Until then, keep figuring out.

1:21:07Thank you.