Grammy Winner YUNGBLUD: Childhood Humiliation, Insecurities, Confidence & Fears | FO467 Raj Shamani

38:08more mature poet, if you like, a sense of ambiguity in my songwriting where it can mean anything to anyone, a specific element of pain to me. How do I make that mean something to you if you didn't go through what I went through? That's when I think the best songwriters in the world come into play. Like what's Iris by the Goo Goo Dolls about? I don't know, but it makes me cry. because I relate it to the first time a girl broke my heart or the day my grandmother died what's a warning sign by Coldplay about I don't know but to me it's about every time I get to London you know I'm saying I think that's when you become a master of your craft that you've got to do 10 ,000 hours on see when you go through all of this right the anger the pain it made you open up but usually what it does to people is people go to their shell yes they don't open up they want to be confined they don't want to come out at all and they want to go through their pain anger just by themselves what made you open up truly i i i hate being claustrophobic i hate sitting on a plane for 10 hours i hate when my ears don't pop i hate being in a small room I hate being in a confined space.

39:33I think it's just my nature. When I felt caged, when I felt confined, when I felt like someone was trying to put me in, when I felt like someone was trying to put me in a box or when I felt like my own brain was trying to put me in my shell, I cracked the fucking shell and kicked the fucking door down. I think that's just how I was built. I don't know. But I think with it all, I think when people listen to my tunes and come to the community and they ask me, they said like, oh, you helped me come out of my shell and you helped me like open up. that was what I wanted to do because also Ozzy, Joe Strummer, Johnny Rotten, Eminem, they did that for me in the same way that probably John Lennon did it for Ozzy or like Muddy Waters did it for Rolling Stones or Joe Strummer.

40:37It's always like that. You know, I think like I turned to art and I could, I came out of my shell in the same way that someone will turn to young blood and come out of the shell. You know what I mean? I think, I think I hate confined spaces and I hate feeling claustrophobic. So I don't think there was another option. You know, you just mentioned Eminem. So Eminem and Dr. Dre did that to me. So good. It's like, so well, I met Dr. Dre. What? I met Dr. Dre. Really? Yeah. Like last year. How was it? The first time. So cool. I drove up to his house. It was like going to see the president. It was so sick.

41:16He's a true artist, you know, a true deep artist. What do you love about him?

41:25His innate understanding of music. I think all those samples he was pulling from was from like 30s French jazz music.

41:37and he has a depth to him. You know what I'm saying? I think sometimes when I meet modern musicians and producers, everything can be quite shallow and all about the hits and the trend and the quick thing and everything's hype and everything's fire and everything's great and everything's positive. Where he has this 90s thing of depth and patience and gratitude and stories and remembering people's fucking faces. You know, sometimes when I find it hard being in a modern artistic setting because everything's moved so quick that no one has anything to say at all. Not in the music at the fucking dinner or when we're having a beer.

42:28You know what I mean? I think like it's so cool to see someone with so much success, swagger, fucking credibility, cool factor and like cred, fucking cool gangster cred be so deep and so poetic and so poignant. That's when I'm like, that's why he's Dr. Dre. True. Every time you're saying something. you know no i'm just gonna be like and that's why i can see him producing hip-hop but i can also see him producing orchestras and i can also see him producing a fucking rock star because he will conversate go on an adventure digest it and then bring dre to whatever scenario is put in front of us and i think that's truly great oh it's like you look at bowie when he did the Nine Inch Nails, Trent Reznor albums.

43:31And it was unbelievable because you enter different pockets and different worlds. Like to be able to do that and then to still remain so fundamentally yourself is where the greatest artists come out to play, I think. Like what I really love about Dr. Dre is as an individual, forget him as an artist for now, like as an individual just like every time how can you push yourself beyond yeah yeah man to be better into a completely different direction than your environment like it's why like all the obvious choices he didn't take and then he pushed it and got it better yeah man and at every time in his career even at the peaks that's the best thing i mean for me it's like when you with with art or whatever if this one was big the next one should be small if this one was colorful the next one should be different i think every time doing that as an artist it allows you to kind of go like all right cool i'm going to leave this mountain now i'm going to take a helicopter to the ground and i'm going to climb another one exactly that's the point you know i mean that's dr dre that's dr dre and that's any great artist who has who was around for that's bowie for me you know i mean that's that's john lennon for me you know i think like that's art art that makes a difference instead of being like oh you do one album and you do it again and again and again and again it's cool but that's not the vibe i think like yeah a legacy and experimentation because again when we're talking at bringing it all the fucking full circle back to what we've been talking about that's life and that's relationships and that's love and it's honesty and it's truth to explore.

45:20True. The other name you said, Eminem. Yeah. I remember it significantly changed me when I saw that scene from 8 Mile. Wow. Where he's like, the scene is like, if you put all your insecurities out there first, nobody gets pointed out. In the rap battle. I love that scene. It's so important that scene because if you again if you say this is what i am this is what people don't like about me and this is then as a uh as a hater or as someone who is wanting to take me down you have no gasoline because i just used it all on myself yeah like you just joke because hey yeah and it's and it's and it's it's the same thing we've been talking about when you fundamentally put out your put out you know i mean you do your thing when you say it when you say the insults to me even though i've said them to myself they'll still hurt but i hold the power yeah because yeah whatever i'm insecure about my way or yeah i'm insecure about this or i'm insecure about that but when you say it before me you hold the power when i say it it still hurts the same but i i have i have i hold the pieces true you know i mean that's cool i agree and with me it's been like if i talk about my insecurities and the dark side the pain and the things that i'm it's uncomfortable for me if i put it out first i feel like when you say it again it hurts less like somehow it just yeah it doesn't even though it hurts me yeah but it doesn't have the same effect it's because it's because it's a different it's from it it's from a different it's from a different place you know i'm saying like the fundamental core of the pain is like yeah that's that's gonna be there but the power for someone to access it is yours right and your choice and and and you can either give someone that or you just go like nah all good man you know i mean i I think that is the greatest entrapment is allowing somebody else to access that fundamental essence of pain.

47:53You know, one of the fundamental essence you've been talking about a lot. I was going through like a lot of your interviews. That is anger. yeah your dad has also admitted that he had a couple of anger issues and then he went to therapy stuff like that and you've also said the same thing that you have a lot of anger yeah when you see yourself in the mirror do you ever see that you're becoming like your dad um

48:24I love my dad so I am like my dad in many ways and we have anger and we also have a lot of love and we also have a lot of compassion you know I think like I uh I've never been worried about being like my dad you know because my I think I think we worked through it like if I ended up like my dad that'd be great you know i'm saying in terms of the way he is i i love him the way he had to navigate a certain part of his life was like the the choices weren't always great and the but i love him and he's like one of my biggest heroes it's such a strange dichotomy like with with it all to see someone work on themselves like that and to see someone prevail and to completely is like my fucking hero, man.

49:14You know what I mean? And I think like with anger and as a subject, it's such a, anger is such a strange thing because anger,

49:29anger is an uncontrollable thing if you don't face pain and trauma and anxiety and depression. I believe anger is excess energy that has not been addressed. That's where I believe it comes from. Okay. I believe, you know, earlier we were talking about when we were like, if we don't want to watch a film or if we don't want to, like, I believe anger comes from a place of unresolved issues with oneself. And so if you look like a battery bar, right? Like if you kind of, if you fill up your tank, anger is overflowing emotion. Anger is overflowing. Energy, resentment, trauma, anxiety. That's why for me, when I work out or I go boxing or I go, I seem to, I don't get angry.

50:29Even if, even if someone screams at me in the street or someone drops out of my festival last minute, if I've already emptied that battery bar, then I see a solution. When I get angry, it's a waste of time. Do you know what I mean? I'm like, that's the way I've been really living when I found sport and I found boxing. And that's why I'd say like some people, therapy works. I advise people going for therapy, but it didn't work for me. Sport worked for me. Boxing worked for me. What made you start boxing? where you figured out - Do you know what? It was, I was out of control. I think after the third album, Youngblood, I had made an album and I'd listened to too many people.

51:16I didn't not know who I was. I felt really lost. I'd listened to the world. I'd listened to my label. I'd listened to my fan base. And I was like, I was desperate for control. So I turned to food and I turned to alcohol. and all I could do, I could eat myself till I was sick or I could drink myself until I was completely black out and wasn't feeling anything at all. And the rest that came with that life. And I looked at myself in a mirror and I was like, I got to stop. So I told everyone to stop the train. I didn't want to talk. I needed to take some time out. and I got I landed in LA and someone had told me about a British boxing gym and I'm really British you know I mean I like the British vibe I love a British cliche so I went and I met a South African trainer and nothing was working on me I was drinking eating boozing doing everything to just kind of feel some sort of self-control you know i mean even though i was out of control you know i mean if i could fucking drink this and no one can tell me i can't and can't not drink it i'm gonna fucking drink it because it's my fucking right to drink it that's how that's how i was and then i met a guy called chris van hearden was which was a welterweight boxing champion and he became a friend, he became a therapist, he became an answer.

52:55And when you meet boxers, they're in the business of anger. But when you meet any boxer, they will tell you, the minute you get angry in a ring, you'll get knocked out. The minute you lose control, the minute you let it get the better of you, the person opposite you is waiting for that moment and they'll just see you get out of control and they'll throw a shot and he'll knock you out and boxing was the craziest thing for me because it was the closest thing to being on stage or being i don't know how to say this anyway i still feel like a twat when i say like a famous rock star right you can't you can't blow your load in the first song or you're going to get knocked out in round fucking eight.

53:46If you get too tired, you cannot let your emotions get the better of you. You have to remain calm. You have to remain present and you have to remain respectful or you'll get knocked out. And it was the biggest lesson in handling my emotions because I've never had a hobby. Music was my hobby until it was my job. and boxing was a hobby for me where I learned something about my life and I learned something about

54:22the man I was becoming and the man I am in the same way that therapy worked for my father but therapy didn't work for me but I'm still as proud as my dad as I am of myself for wanting to make a difference and wanting to make a change you know I feel like we can turn to many things and it's different for everyone. But when you admit that you have an issue, like my grandmother died of alcoholism, right? And we can feel guilty about how could we let that happen? She's the best person in the world. But the issue is she didn't want to stop drinking. If you don't want to stop being angry, you'll be angry.

55:10If you don't want to stop drinking, you'll drink. If you don't want to stop doing anything, it all starts with you. That's why I'm proud of my dad. And that's why I'm proud of all my mates who get sober. That's why I'm proud of people who consciously make an effort to go like, you know what, like I'm going to figure this out. I'm going to, I'm going to, because it's the same thing, man. Again, we were talking about selfish, being selfish in relationships. you have to take that step yourself you have to learn to love yourself you have to learn to love you have to learn to be yourself live with yourself before you can even entertain a relationship with somebody else because

55:53otherwise it's a disaster you can lean on people for help of course i'm not saying be a be an island no one is an island but when you find that mechanism that works for you you become a better person to be around and that's when you can become a better lover better brother better son best you know i mean be anything you know true you you said that you're proud of the fact that your dad came out of it or you came out of it and everybody comes out of it for the first time when things got really really bad in your in your world yeah your mom took you out from there yeah right she took you away yeah so did your mom teach you something about survival which yeah no one else could my mother

56:47my mother is I always think she's magic man

56:56because I mean, and I'm very lucky like with the women in my life, my girlfriend as well, the ability between those two women, I feel so lucky because they see both sides of every argument completely unselfishly, even if they disagree with me. Whereas with me, if we're disagreeing on something, I find sometimes I can't come out of my head in the moment I will realize that I was in the wrong afterwards what's crazy about my mother and then and then my girlfriend who I met and why I think I love her so much is they my mom can always take herself out of her head in real time and be like you're angry at me right now you're completely in the wrong but i see why you're angry but you you're overthinking it or this has happened or whatever i think my mother taught me so much about people from such a young age because i don't know man she was just deep and she was magic and she's like a bit of a gypsy so she was always she would always let the scenario, the conversation the argument, the heated thing play out and then play her move as opposed to going no one gets anywhere she would kind of like finished here's what I think you know and And I don't know, man.

58:36I fucking love my mom. I'm a mummy's boy. You know, still now when I have a big gig and I can't sleep and I'm at the other side of the world. And if I'm jet lagged tonight and anxious and nervous about tomorrow, she'll pick up the phone and knows a way to talk me down. You know, I've always been bad at sleeping. You still call her when things go wrong? Yeah. If I'm nervous about tomorrow, I'll probably call tonight. You know what I mean? I think. dude it's funny even i'm like i'm a hardcore mama's boy yeah i'm telling you i just think there's there's there's no there's no greater thing and i uh i love her hard man you know i think she taught me so much without me even knowing but why do you think that we love and trust the art about pain but we almost call out the artist who's talking about it and we say that oh maybe he's just an attention seeker because it's somewhere to put our own pain the reason why we attack sports stars artists they miss if they don't hit a six if they miss a penalty if they're if if you don't like someone's haircut or the way someone sings it's easy to put your pain on somebody else without consequence than potentially address the pain the thing about the internet is so hard is because the amount of hate comments and attention seeker and shares i hate young blood i think he's shit or whatever it used to affect me until i realized that it's only every to me i am a mirror for people and if they don't like what they see in themselves they probably won't like what they see in me and the internet has no consequence if i walk up to you and i say i think your point of view is bullshit you'll be like let's talk about it and then i automatically have to talk about it with you because that's the respect between two human beings if you've got an issue with me you'll talk to me about it if you can't talk to me about it you don't you know i mean it's just like here there's no consequence this fuel this anger that is unaddressed again this outpour of energy turns into hatred on the internet so when I read comments on the internet now as a 28 year old who's been through the wars a bit and been cancelled on Twitter and been called out and been ripped to shreds and then kind of sit here with you like oh it didn't kill me it didn't end me I just used it as fuel then I feel like it it's different it's a different from a different place you know i think like people will always say anything but i'll only listen if it comes from a place of reality and comes from a place of consequence if you have a problem with me let's fucking talk about it and hopefully i can turn you around and convince you otherwise and if i can't at least we fucking spoke about it at least we had the confidence and the bollocks to address it you know let's talk about honesty a little bit because i find it interesting i saw i read a research recently about our generation uh that gen z doesn't necessarily find themselves they are almost like in an a-b testing world they treat their identity more or less like a brand yeah where they're putting it something something they're projecting they're seeing oh is it getting liked are we getting accepting yes no it's not exactly they change the pivot so whatever gets them attention they change their identity as per that do you do you see this as a problem with a lot of people when we were talking about dr dre earlier fundamentally i agree i feel like i find it really hard sometimes when i meet modern artists and, and, and, and sometimes having conversations with people who are centered around the internet and then everyone else under kind of, it always trickles down.

1:03:14Can you meet influencers? Everyone listens to, you know what I'm saying?

1:03:20It's so hard to, to form an identity or be yourself now because instantly subject to opinion. if you put your life on the internet. And anybody from 13 years old when you download Instagram to 85, anyone in the world can say whatever they want about you. When you post it now, anyone, it goes to the whole fucking world. So I think it's a crazy thing. And I think that's why there's a mad identity crisis in the world right now because everyone is following. To follow someone, you follow someone. That is in the fundamental essence of our lives. We follow. We are not being told initially to lead. You know, I think that's what's crazy about the internet.

1:04:24True. Whereas in real life, with your fucking get rid of this. So it was what I was doing today. I was like walking around and I was like, people, when you live, you have to live. You have to fucking put your feet in the fucking grass and you've got to fucking drink the water and you've got to fucking smell the air. And you've got to, we don't do that. The amount of times a week I go, fuck, man. I got to like go outside and I got to fucking look at a tree. and I got to comprehend how sick the sky is. We get desensitized to anything real because it's so addictive to follow and to keep up with other people's mistakes and failings and successes as opposed to looking at the sky and dreaming about something or having a thought.

1:05:24And I think the thing about it is, is like when you, what that leads us to do is it kills innovation because when someone, when you ask someone a question, they take that pivoting system into their answer. So when I say, what's your favorite color? You might go instantly blue, but you automatically go, it goes into your stomach. You try and think about what I want you to say. Insecurity comes into play. And by 15 seconds later, when you open your mouth, you say orange. You really want to say blue. And that's what's happening at the minute. And it's crazy because there's nothing, there's no one cooler than someone who is themselves.

1:06:13Even if I fucking hate you, at least i can at least i know what you are yeah do you know i mean do you know who you are or do you know someone who just works really good on internet no i know i am i know i am today i might not know i am tomorrow do you truly just be yourself or do you be someone who you know works really well for this brand

1:06:46From 26 From From 26 and a half years old Yeah And myself Before that you were not? You're trying to play a game? Nah I was myself When I was 18 initially I was myself But the bro What you gotta realise with this shit is When the world shouts back how the fuck do you deal with that from 18 to 24 it's hard enough to do that without the world telling you what you are so it took me a little bit longer because you know it's the same shit if like you want to be a singer but your dad wants you to be a doctor and he's shouting it you're gonna be a fucking doctor and you want to be a singer or vice versa your dad wants you to be a singer and you want to be a doctor and everyone's shouting at you what the fuck are you you don't know you live in this dichotomy but truly now and i think that's why i had such a big year last year because fundamentally i settled and i went for what i want and i do what i want and i and i speak about what i believe in in the same way that i did when i was 18 and then i hit 21 and i'm like what the fuck is going on here and it's easy to be what people want because it means you don't it means there's no risk you know i mean but risk is an artist's greatest tool without risk

1:08:24it runs out yeah you know i mean and i can honestly say that now it's like initially fuck yeah but at 18 i was still finding myself so it's been myself i was still being like i was open to the idea of like whoa this is fucking endless possibility and that was really pure but between 25 21 and probably about 25 i was like what the fuck but also it was always truthful i was like i'm gonna try that for a bit and i'm gonna try that for a bit and i'm gonna try that for a bit and i'm gonna play into this i know people will like it i'm gonna play into this because I know people will hate it. And I was in that fucking weird sense of rebellion and down for the ride.

1:09:07And then that led to self-control issues with alcohol and food. Because I was like, who the fuck am I? And everyone's telling me what I am. So then honestly, without question, I had to go like, who the fuck am I? And if this is the end of my career, I got to do it because this is not going well. You know, like on my downward spiral, I'm like, this is not going well. And I got to make an album that I want and I got to talk the way I want. I got to wear what I want and I'm going to take control back and I'm going to start boxing and I'm going to start getting my mind better. And I'm going to commit to myself.

1:09:46You know, when I hear all this, another thing that the world shouts, like really is shouting out loud today is be a man. Yeah. And the number one shame that men of today or men of any time feel is they don't want to be perceived as weak. They necessarily don't fear vulnerability, but they fear if they show vulnerability, they're going to be seen weak. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're going to lose attraction. They're going to not be accepted. Their mating chances will go down. Their respect will go down. Yeah, yeah. Right? Stuff like that. But you, on the other hand, you've been very vocal about just expressing the way you are, talking about your feelings, painting your nails, wearing skirts, like whatever you want to do, you do that.

1:10:42Do you feel internet has made the definition of masculinity so fragile that we're judging people based on a skirt or a trouser? The internet has made us judge people regardless of everything. It gives us, again, an opportunity to judge someone without consequence. it gives us an opportunity to leave a comment on someone's life with no consequence whatsoever so it's really hard and i think the the craziest thing about masculinity is that you know like you are brought up well i was brought up with an idea of what it was and so was my father and my grandfather, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And then the internet comes along and we do judge, but it also exposes us to make our own decisions.

1:11:45You do not, like, if the generation before teaches you the way of the world, and then you get an encyclopedia of every single historical moment, every word, every language, every culture there, everything changes. So I think our generation completely broke the wheel of any tradition. You know what I'm saying? Tradition gets carried on now because we want it to, or we love it, or we need it to. And it's a beautiful thing. You know what I'm saying? But we also have the option to end it. You know what I'm saying? I think because everyone in the world, if you've got a phone or if you've got, you know what I mean?

1:12:30Can be exposed to a whole new thing other than what we have known, you know? Before you would learn from before and learn from before and learn from before and learn from before. And then it would adapt and change over time. Whereas this just fucking threw a spanner in everything. And the craziest thing about masculinity is, is is at the minute and and really on this album i've really experimented and done what i fucking wanted and kind of loved that you know but then on this album i really had this energy and this i think this fucking biological sexual fucking thing that i wanted to explore in a way that like when you look at a 13 year old boy and i look at me as a 13 year old boy i didn't have this yet so i kind of would wear nail polish and get the shit kicked out of me on the football field or but it was still tangible if you had an issue with me for wearing nail polish and you want to have a go at me at least i can fucking shout back it held consequence if you're a 13 year old young man right now you have the right and you have andrew tate and you You have all this shit going on over here about take the power back to what we once were.

1:13:53And this is what we fuck you and fuck everything and be whatever, right? And then you also, and I'm saying this as a 13-year-old lad now, you also have this narrative on the internet, this fuck man narrative, which is completely justified. because like my generation, generation before blah, blah, and the generation before that misogynistic bullshit that has no fucking place in my world. But as a 13 year old boy, where the fuck do you go? Because you've got this side telling you to go and kick the shit out of everyone if they don't agree with you. And you've got this side telling you that to be a man is a fucking horrible thing to be and fuck man.

1:14:33So as a 13 year old boy, to me as young man, whatever you are, whatever gender, whatever race, whatever you want to be, I want you to be able to express yourself and be welcome in my world. And not my world, in this community that we've built together. It's not my world. You know what I mean? It's our world. And in my head, I was like, in the same way that I've fought for equality within queer rights and within racial equality, everything I've spoken about in Youngblood, I have to also fight for the 13-year-old boy who is going, oh my God, I've got to be this or I've got to be this or I've got to hide.

1:15:14I'm like, no, you can be what you want. You can be emotional. You can be, you can wear a skirt on a Monday and go boxing on a Tuesday. And why does that make you less of a man? You can be what you want as long as you're leading with love. That's my vibe. Be a fucking lover. Be honest. Be truthful. and lead with love. If you're spreading hate, fuck you in any regard. But in my world, I really want to present that opportunity to be able to come into a place where it's like a place of exploration and a place of learning and a place of exposure to a mindset that is completely limitless if you want it to be.

1:16:04Do you think a teenager today is seeing a lot more anti-man sentiment? The one that you're describing right now. I think they're seeing everything. I think the vibe is the algorithm gives you. The algorithm is a crazy thing. Do you think they're seeing more of anti-man sentiment? Yeah, than before. Yeah. 100%. My vibe is like, what the internet gives people is the right to express in any regard. Love, hate, anything. So if an influencer had a bad experience and fighting against fucking 150, 200, a thousand years of misogyny, fuck yeah, that is completely all right to do that because it's bullshit.

1:16:46but also i i want everyone to think about what the fuck would you know i mean like if the boys if they're getting that and that and there's nothing in the middle it's it's just going to create a confused a generation with no identity but nowhere to go which will lead to anger and hatred and resentment and my vibe is i want to build a place where people can be completely equal and completely loved because at the end of the day, the algorithm, right? For example, you, you click on a video that affects you and human nature, if something hurts us or we hate it, or it's not, it's not necessarily, we don't just click on what we love.

1:17:28Sometimes we click on what angers us. Sometimes we click on what we hate. Sometimes we click on, and if that's in your algorithm all the time, it's, it's a really hard place to exist in, you know, because if, again, if a 12 year old lad. It's been told that he's a piece of shit for everything. It's going to make him hate the world. It's going to make him hate everything. And then he is going to become what he didn't want to be because he had no choice. If you had to tell this 13-year-old your definition of masculinity, what would it be? I would say, say if that was my little brother or if that was my son, I would say that person is spreading unnecessary hate out of a complete fear

1:18:27and complete unresolved trauma and hatred. and I was saying, don't be that. That guy's lost. That guy's so lost and he's 10 years older than you. Why do we not have enough men talking about this? Why don't we have enough role models? It's scary. To be fighting for masculinity on the internet is a cantible offense in the world of the internet. Do you really believe so? I believe that people are afraid to talk about it in an open scenario like this. But don't you think somebody must have tried to show a new definition of masculinity where you can be weak, you can be yourself. Yeah, you are right now.

1:19:17And so am I. You know what I'm saying? That's true. But somebody must have done it like so passionately so many more times and they must have gotten penalized in some way. That's why they stopped. I don't know, man. And I really feel like after COVID, the internet was angry. Anything that the internet didn't agree with would be shut down immediately. So this is a problem also of everyone's own making. The vibe is this. The hard thing about the internet is it's cut to a 20-second soundbite. When you edit this together, we'll put up a 20-second soundbite that doesn't give the whole story. If someone wants to sit here and listen to our three-hour, four-hour, two-hour conversation, we don't get the whole story we don't get the fact that me and you are as we conversate we break down the point we don't always have the answer immediately that's what's cool about this thing we go through a journey together we connect together so probably next time we come come to India we'll probably fucking end up having dinner because we conversated and we connected and we agreed and we disagreed and we vibed that's what's hard about the internet now is it gets lost and a 20 second soundbite can be misconstrued and seen as truth that is why people are afraid to talk about it because how the fuck do i define masculinity in one sentence you just asked me to i can't true it's a fucking lifetime journey and i wish i would have said that three minutes ago when you asked me that question but it's not almost instant life isn't instant the internet makes you want to feel instant.

1:20:51It's not fucking instant. You know what I mean? It's all about unraveling the scroll and the answers within your mind. And I think like with it all, it's hard because how do you bite size such a massive question? That is the, that's the hard thing about the internet. And that is the hard thing about what we consume on the daily. Whereas in the past we would read, we would read a newspaper. We would read a book we would read a journal where someone had 50 000 words to explain their point of view now you got five seconds if you don't get in those five seconds no one listens to it true no one reads it no one hears it you know i mean if it's not split second bite size it gets 200 000 views as opposed to 25 million yeah so i think sometimes there probably is people out there talking about a new masculinity or a new idea of that but is it is it less clickable is it less bite size and is it longer format so that's why i'm like when this got presented and i knew what you were about i'm like let's fucking go and do that because when two predominantly liberal males who want to fight for a new generation of what the fuck does masculinity look like we have to start here with a long two three hour conversation just that you have a platform i have a platform need to talk about and we need to kind of be like oh fuck let's talk about this because people will hate it and people will fight back and people will disagree but that's the point it's conversation you know i mean i think like in the world you know yeah you know there are so many things that i agree with you and i disagree with you but here's something that i really admire that even though when i was reading about you and and even right now you're not afraid to talk about a lot of shit and i really admire that honesty you just open up about it's like yeah i don't know sometimes even if like there are points when you don't know you're like i can't put this in a box i don't know and even if If it's about something private, you're just open about it.

1:23:05That's admirable. I'm just putting it out there. No, no, no. I love that. And I think that's, I don't know. I think it was a strange thing to navigate on the internet because it's kind of like when you sat down in a situation like this, again, when you're an artist, you're expected to be so wise. And it's so hard to sometimes be like, I don't know. I mean, sometimes it's like, what's next on the fucking agenda? it's like i have no idea man i'm trying to get through today i'm gonna wake up tomorrow and have a coffee and yeah see what the fuck happens you know i mean like that's the vibe but i i love this too i i really did love this i feel like we fucking yeah we we ride and we and we talk and i think that's almost kind of the the lesson at the end of this is like when we sit down for three hours and we talk about this shit that's what's beautiful and i think the the the strange thing about the world we live in right now is everything's got to be quick no one has any time anymore and no one has the room to disagree i feel like the strange thing about the internet if you go against the opinion of your algorithm or your friend's algorithm you hate each other now as opposed to being like all right well i don't agree with you but let's have a fucking beer that's what it used to be you know i mean with my friends and and shit i'm like you support a different football team to me but i don't care i still love you You know what I mean?

1:24:29Yeah. What's one thing which is so private that we have never heard in any of your songs? Holy shit. You want the scoop? To be honest, I think, I think I have been a complete open book. You know, I feel like, I feel like, to be brutally honest with you, I'm quite scared right now. for the future i think after the year i've had after the amount of people that have seen me and come to me and said that i am the leader of this new thing and i'm in a period of my life right now i'm not so this one where i'm like oh god i've got to go and step up to a plate that has been placed upon me and I've wanted it to be placed upon me my whole life but this is the moment and this is now and I feel like again like I feel very lucky as an artist that I get to be able to have a platform to be like you know what I'm just as fucking shit scared as anybody because all we want to do is I don't know I just want to I want to fulfill my dream and I want to become what I set out to be in the same way that you did and you did and you did and you did and you did and i'm it's cool right now i'm i'm a bit i'm nervous about tomorrow i'm scared but i also love it you know what i'm saying like people see rock stars as like yeah man go on stage and play for 40 000 people in india tomorrow i want to nail it and i want to explore this culture and i want to make those people feel seen and have a good time and i want to live up to people's expectations of what i am and i feel like it's a pretty un-rockstar thing to say a rockstar would be like fuck everyone and let's do it but i believe again i think i uh actually kind of feels good to say that you're gonna kill it don't worry no i know and fundamentally I think I will but um you're scared going into the next going into the next year and this year in my life where I've got to live up to an expectation that has been placed upon me will I do it will I not we'll see so apart from this you've also struggled with your body right yeah so when you you see yourself in the mirror today who do you see it's so funny because i i am really insecure about my body and i think a lot of people see me go shirtless on this last tour and that's been a big battle with myself i did not like my body without my shirt on uh for a long time i still struggle with it like even today's the laughing i i'm still like oh no whatever i have this weird thing that a lot of us go through where I really struggle with my body and my weight.

1:27:39Even today when you see yourself in the mirror? Yeah. What do you wish you saw? I don't know. Something better. I feel like we all judge ourselves harsher than the world does. I wish I was a little bit skinny. I wish I was a little bit taller. I wish I was a little bit more ripped. I wish I was a little bit more, you know what I mean? Whatever. and people will be like you're crazy you're crazy and I'm like yeah but I could say that to you and you would still feel the way you feel about yourself um I don't know why I always have I've had a I've had a hard time with my body and I work on it all the time and I struggle with it but I also play I kind of on this this journey in my life I took my shirt off on stage every night to to play a game with myself and almost be a bit like stand on the edge of the cliff and scream and kind of like face that demon in the mirror every night and go fuck you i don't know i'm a bit mad like that so out of all the things that you said tell me one specific thing about your body which you hate right now the way my ass hangs over my liver pants and my chaps and this bit you're working you're doing something to change this or you're like trying my best yeah gonna go boxing tonight i don't know yeah uh and then i knocked this tooth out and i had to have it rebuilt with metal i don't like that i want to change that you also said somewhere that you can't stop because if you stop then you're gonna die like you don't want to stop yeah but then doctors made you stop so you're like always running running running energy energy what are you running away from my vibe is that i'm either running away from something or running towards it and it depends on what mindset i'm in when i know what is it today i think i am running to fucking play a rock and roll gig in india but when i leave tomorrow I'll be running away from the idea that I've got to make a fucking massive album and when I've done that album I'll be running towards the sold out UK arena tour and then a sold out American tour and after that I'm going to be running away from the fact that I got to get my tonsils out in August because I kept getting sick and then after that I'll probably be running towards fucking getting back on the road you know I mean so I think my life is always uh I'm always running but I don't know some days I'm running away some days I'm running towards and it wakes it depends on what happens in the morning nice so you're gonna play tomorrow in front of 30 40 000 people you must have played in front of thousands of people before you're always surrounded with people you've built a community for yourself what's the point where you felt the loneliest Sick question.

1:30:46I would say when you, and I don't want to fucking this to sound like a miserable, woe is me rock star thing, because I love my fucking vibe, you know what I mean? But it can get quite lonely when people don't see you as a human being anymore. When is that? I was in Australia, there's like 400 people outside the hotel. and you kind of can't go to a restaurant. You kind of just got to leave the fucking stage and go back to a quiet hotel room, which is mental because I love the chaos and I love the juxtaposition of like, I don't love the juxtaposition of noise. Ah!

1:31:29Because you're on stage and it's like, fuck. And it's like, what the fuck? And then you're back in a hotel and it's silent. that's that that's can be so fucking lonely if you don't have your best friend to talk to or your fucking blanket or your favorite movie like i watch fucking war movies on repeat the same shit all the time my sense of consistency when i'm in a different hotel every night when i'm on a different road when I'm on a different plane when I'm in a different street you know I mean you need some kind of consistency or you go fucking mad because it's like you gotta adjust man like the hotel like tomorrow's hotel the bed will be facing the other way and the fucking wallpaper's different and it smells different and the air con's different to work and the shower don't get up in the first minute it takes two minutes and then the next day it's all fucking different again if you don't have a sense of consistency you can feel really lonely because you're away from your family you're away from you whatever all the time so if you haven't got your best mate if you haven't got your fucking blanket if i haven't got my candles i go fucking mad

1:32:48but you you broke up yeah right yeah you were drowning and you didn't know why yep it was me and you've also seen your parents as a child loving and hurting each other so it was almost like love is like a war yeah right and then you sort of did the same thing in your relationship because you pushed it away for a while what makes you believe you're not going to do that again um i think in a an epiphany of finding a sense of self and honest and a fearlessness of utter honesty do you trust yourself to do that yeah i think so because i feel like all she ever wanted from me was honesty and i didn't know or love myself enough to be able to provide that for her.

1:33:43But I do now. You know, I think you've got to go over that fucking wall to be able to not distract and to be able to, again, be truthful about what you want. You know, I think when, because at the end of the day, I'm down to hear what she wants and she's down to hear what I want. And sometimes that's the same thing. Sometimes it's not. And both are okay. You know, like you see them videos on TikTok, like her her battery bar's at 10 percent and mine's at 90 and then that's the thing and then it's 50 and then we're both at 90 like that's the fucking vibe man as long as you know where you're at and as long as you're truthful about it you know i mean it's like it fucking happens in it i mean yeah have you heard of a term called essential chase essential chase yeah no like it's like most of the public figures and artists and creators and everyone they go through this because when they are in front of their crowd they are like the most important thing and the crowd is ravishing there's chaos everybody wants a piece of you so you're in that high right you are in there you're everybody is making you feel that you're essential in their life right so when you come back from stage and there's this quiet hotel room you still chase that yeah so you're constantly just chasing that 100 importance do you do that you're constantly chasing a high that's why a lot of people turn to drugs and alcohol exactly sleeping pills and stuff turn I find it really hard too.

1:35:23I cannot be exposed to Xanax, Valium or anything like that too much because I know that I don't take drugs really. I've never been into them. You know, I think it would numb me. I don't like to be numb. I like to feel even if it fucking hurts because I learn. It's the only way I've learned. You know what I mean? But I know I have a really hard time switching off Do you Chase that from people? Chase What from people that The high that they need to make you feel Celebrated and god like No I don't think I do I feel like I

1:36:12I love the rumble of a crowd I love seeing 20 ,000 people jump together. That's the cool. I don't know. I think that's what I'm addicted to. I'm addicted to the fucking raw. It's not really about me. It's about the fucking view. But when you're back in the hotel room, what do you chase then? Oh, fucking hell. Being on the same thing, being on stage, that fucking feeling of like - Like you want to get back again. I just want to get back again or I want to turn it off. Like I wish I could just go, but I can't because when I get back into the hotel room and it's fucking quiet and I'm still like what the fuck and everyone else is asleep and I'm up that's the scariest loneliest part yeah on the road when that's why I hate the night that's why I live through the night now because if I'm trying to sleep during the night when the fucking cars start beeping and the sun comes up, I can fall asleep.

1:37:15Because I know everyone else is about when it's the night and everyone else switches off and I'm still awake and I'm still rushing. I hate it. So that's why I cannot have like Valium or Xanax. I just can't even entertain it. Because I might turn to that because it'll just shut me off and it'll be a button to go like, gig was good, take that. Shut up. And I also kind of like, I almost like, I really feel like if you become immune and if you become immune to that feeling, then you become a cunt or you become a dick. My vibe is me rushing till the morning comes is kind of part of the gift that I was given, you know?

1:38:09I would say. you know for me it's different yeah like when when i go out and give speeches and i'm in front of 10 000 people and they're celebrating i'm looking at the view like is it for you know like what's happening and everybody's in sync and they're like listening to every word they have to say like that the chase which you must be feeling yeah i feel in a different way on that night i get the most peaceful sleep motherfucker i'm jealous i'm so jealous like for me it's big all my friends are like you all my artist friends are like the comedians the musicians the speakers everybody is just like you like they can't sleep yeah and i'm like fuck man you gotta give me a bit of that shit i'm like motherfucker i'm like that's why you look so pretty i'm like and that's why i put eyeliner on because i'm like 10 years of no sleep um i wish i could uh but when what's the best sleep i have when i my vibe is this the best sleep i have is when i like i'm a week into a holiday the first week of a holiday i'm fucking so anxious i'm like what do i do i'm on a fucking desert island what the fuck do i do the whole thing's gonna burn my career's over what the fuck am i gonna do but then like day seven, eight, nine, 10.

1:39:30I'm like, oh my God, I slept for 12 hours. And my body just kind of latched on. But then I also get sick. Every fucking holiday I go on, I get sick because my body stops. You know, when you're on tour, especially when you're a singer, if you're a guitar player or a drummer, if you get sick, it's fine because your body isn't your instrument. Whatever, this is your instrument. This fucking thing, if I get sick, it's like I've got to cancel the gig. so my body never lets me get sick so when anytime i take off if i got a fucking beautiful resort in the middle of fucking the bahamas or whatever i'm like yes finally ill yeah i'm like shit so every holiday i go on i like spending bed yeah i'm just like ill so i know it's full this is this is interesting because i go through the same thing this almost every time i'm doing a podcast i don't sneeze i don't i don't get sick even if i'm like really really sick like i'm under the weather um but if i'm in my game my body doesn't like let me get sick like this morning i was right before you came in like 15 minutes before i was like sneezing out of my wits there that's funny i was like coughing sneezing and during this entire three four hour conversation i've not sneezed once weird it's the same on stage like 10 minutes before you walk stage you might need a piss yeah on stage all bodily functions about the window like i can walk to stage and need a piss and then when five songs in i'm like why don't i need a piss anymore it's so weird and then i get off stage i'm like i'm busting for a piss but on stage it's like i don't need a piss it's fucking weird man i think you're in it i think your body just like fight or flight yeah your whole body's like just thinking yeah it's a beautiful thing yeah i love it yeah i love it too Okay, I have a question about India.

1:41:31Go on. Which is, what made you say yes to an Indian designer when half of your audience wouldn't even know about him? So my vibe is... You collaborated with Akhibwani, right? Yeah, Akhibwani for a merch club. Yeah. My vibe is when I come somewhere, I want to fundamentally learn. otherwise what's the fucking point of traveling the world playing music if you're just gonna stay in the hotel room all the time listen to the same music watch the same movies what's i want to be affected by indian art indian movies indian music while i'm in india right and then i want to take that back i want to uplift any kind of artist to my fan base be like if people fuck with those t-shirts in london let's bring an indian artist t-shirts to london and let's bring you know i mean that's my always been my vibe i was like i really was like let's do that i wanted when i came here i wanted to do something that would let me understand the culture and get to no speakers and artists and musicians and Bollywood actors.

1:42:50Why? Because I find that cool. You know what I mean? So I was like, let's do a merch club and let's not just bring the same t-shirts I've been taking on tour. Let's do a new one. Let's do an interesting, cool thing. Because when I see the name in a different fucking language or different colors or different cultures or different we grew up watching different things eating different things so i find it so interesting like when you come to my house i'll cook a british sunday roast for you and when i come to yours you gotta cook what the fuck you grew up on yeah because that's gonna that's so cool so i just kind of see it in a purest way like that i was like when we're in India we should definitely do nice something cool like that and in the same way it's like I've been holding out for the right list of Bollywood films and the right music artists because I don't want to watch a fucking Bollywood film on a plane I want to watch it in India fucking eating Indian food and drinking a Kingfisher that's what I want to do because that's how I'm going to fundamentally feel it and learn about it and want to come back so that was my vibe you know i was like i was like let's do it and let's do a merch pop-up and let's vibe you know nice that's nice yeah i have one last question for you hit me and one request go on then okay so one last question is i didn't interrupt you there when you were saying running towards or running away from depending on your yeah i want to quote something you said you said you're like shock if you stop moving you're gonna die yeah right but sharks are designed that way you're not designed that way did you tell yourself that you are like shark because your trauma has taught you stillness is not okay can i tell you something that's crazy about that i once thought that really i thought that but the biggest lesson I think that I've ever learned with this last album I stopped and I assessed and I worked it out before I started again so potentially probably me at 22 23 25 when I said that I feel differently about it now.

1:45:31You think you can stop now? No. My vibe is I can stop. I can stop for, I wouldn't want to. I'm having too much fun. I will stop to, in February and March, I will stop to write an album. And I will assess. But is that really stopping? Because I stopped to write an album. So my vibe is, again, in my head, I was like always wanted to be on the move and I glamorized that. It was rock and roll and it was blah, blah, blah. But to fundamentally make the best art I did, which I think was my last album, in my opinion, I reassessed and I stopped. So I'm definitely on a new trip. Now you said that. I'm definitely on a new wave of going like, ah, maybe everything doesn't have to be made on the move.

1:46:21Yeah. so instead of shark maybe you can start using lion now you know the lion theory fucking no i don't but i am a lion sweet yeah i am a lion i'm a fucking i'm a i'm a leo as well so i'm a leo too oh yeah makes sense that's how we got the vibe so the lion theory is you know how lion is in a jungle yeah the lion rests the whole day and then only gets up when he got to hunt yeah and then he doesn't get back to rest until he hunts the shit down yeah man that's crazy you go hard and hunt and then you come back rest and then you go hunt i like that theory man that's a good fucking theory i'll tell you that yes all right cool sharks out the window lions now yeah right on lions thank you so much man this is no thank you so much i really i really fucking love this this was killer thank you i really appreciate you being really honest no and i I really appreciate the fucking challenge in what I say.

1:47:23And you've been honest too. I fucking had fun today. Thank you. I really did. Thank you so much. I fucking love it, man. Thank you.

1:47:39Only for you, brother. Thank you.

1:47:44Got you on it.

1:47:49I would have brought my guitar if I knew I was doing this. Oh, it's all good. If I was to talk about the words, they would hurt.

1:48:07They would hurt.

1:48:13So if you were to ask about the pain I would lie

1:48:24I would lie

1:48:30To fix my mind I need time

1:48:42But it's running out It's running out Oh, I know that I can't live without you But this world will keep turning if you do Would you even want me? Looking like a zombie Would you even want me Want me Want me

1:49:17Right on That was so good man That was so good I like him man On a 30 star Rock him man The way he was supposed to be Thank you so much Thank you Thank you so much For watching this podcast Till the end Please let us know In the comments what all did we do right so that we can improve and keep doing that better and what all did we do wrong so that we never repeat it and at the same time please give us suggestions of who's the next guest that you want to see on the podcast and don't forget to share this episode with at least one person who will get some insights because one conversation is enough to give people enough ideas to change their lives I'll see you next time until then keep figuring out and also don't forget to subscribe the channel Thank you.