Grandmaster Praggnanandhaa: Childhood, Money, Failure, Samay Raina & PM Modi | FO392 Raj Shamani

0:00When was the first time you saw chess? Yes. I was around three and I played my first state championship at the age of five. And at the age of 12, we became GM. Yes. And I think I was too young to handle these kind of like title pressure things. I've always wondered why do you put Vibhuti here? This is basically the ash. We come from the ash and we go back to it. There is nothing to be arrogant. You must be surrounded with just coaches, competitors. You don't have friends for anything else. When you're trying to do something different, then you have to sacrifice. You have a lot of chess friends who made you insecure in the past.

0:34Oh, he's better than me. Mostly from my generation. Gukesh does well, Achin does well, or Nodded Back. I feel like I can do it as well. I tried to put pressure on me. What do you think is the contribution of Sameh, Raina and Sagar in the world of chess? Sameh brought in new audiences to the game. Sagar, Chess Base India, covers every tournament that's possible. I think that was good things happened to chess. Is there money in chess? Yes, there is, I think, more money than it used to be. This board. I'm a beginner. What's one trick you can teach us which will help us beat some people? The first thing to know…

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1:50Pragyananda, the youngest international master at the age of 10, a grandmaster at the age of 12, and someone who's already beaten world champions. In this episode, we spoke to him about how he handled the pressure of representing India on the global stage at such a young age, the mindset shift he had while competing internationally, what chess has taught him and how he stays focused even during long high-stake matches. Watch this episode till the end and tell me in the comments what you learned from this.

2:27you have a lot of chess friends and those chess friends are your competitors as well yes do other chess players make you insecure no not right now but I guess in the past it who made you insecure in the past I mean just the players from my generation whenever they were doing it it was putting some pressure on I mean I was putting self pressure as I was speaking earlier and And but I started seeing them as inspiration. And it was, I mean, now I, whenever they do well, I get this extra, extra motivation. Like I want to push myself. It doesn't come as a pressure, but as an inspiration. And I want to do well as well.

3:14But when was the last time you felt insecure? I don't remember, honestly. You said that you were, you clearly. when I was a kid you would see other player and who would you think that that person made me a little oh he's better than me or she's better than me mostly from my generation like when let's say Gukesh does well or Achinda does well or Nodir Bag when they do well I feel like I can do it as well so I I tried to put pressure on me which which is not a good thing um i mean getting inspired from them is a different thing and for example like nowadays as i said when i was fine i am i'm better at it because last year i didn't have a great year while gukech won world championship um ajin crossed 2800 and all these things just inspired me so much like i was seeing their games like so closely trying to understand and And yeah, it inspired me.

4:22And I think that's one of the reasons I feel that extra energy I have when I play games nowadays. I mean, that inspiration that comes from them. Now it's not fear. It's just inspiration. Yes. You don't get scared by anyone? No. Any player? No, I think when you just want to give your best and not worry about the result, I don't think there's anything to be worried about. You know, I was watching this one reel from Prakar's podcast where Vishisar says that he, you saw that? Yeah, I watched. Yeah, he chose you over all the others. He said, Praag, like currently I would choose Praag. How do you feel when someone of his caliber chooses you over Arjun and Gukesh and everyone else?

5:16Yeah, as I said, these things sort of, you know made impressions on me earlier nowadays I'm just like yeah it is what it is yeah what were you thinking when you beat Magnus Carlsen for the first time I wasn't thinking anything I was just playing and I got my chance out of nowhere and and I mean everything happened in like few minutes it was a rapid game so everything happened in a few minutes then I realized I I was quite happy it was an online game as that time my parents were asleep it was like 2am in the morning and and I went and woke my dad up I said I won but then he went back to sleep because he had to go to the office tomorrow he didn't care at all yeah he said good and went back to sleep what were you feeling?

6:15I was just I was just excited like I I wasn't expecting it and then suddenly I mean the game was also going in a trend that it was putting pressure on me and then suddenly I got my chance I I had to play some accurate moves which I did and I won so I was just very happy and then I also didn't expect so much reaction from outside after that so there was also I think a good thing for the game it brought more attention but then do you read the game do you read the person do you read fears psychology what what helped you win i was more excited about the fact that i just bet magnus than the actual game okay uh which is i mean which is not what i feel but i didn't i didn't think the game was particularly great or anything like that but did you replay that game yeah yeah i did i did analyze i realized i didn't i didn't really play well but um it was it was like fifth game of the day or something and we were already we're already tired and it was obvious that we were not not playing our best but but i won and i think it was it was important for me back then um it gave me a lot of confidence and I realized that the top players are not invisible.

7:43You can beat them. And until you actually get that first win, you always feel like they are just in a different world. But once you beat them, yeah, you can know that it's possible. And usually when you play one-on-one in real life, is it the body language that you read? Is it the psychology of a person? because everybody knows every move and they are playing at the top of the game. What gives one player edge over another? Yeah, you can get a new position early on in the game. That's possible that you're totally out of work and you're playing. So it's not like every time you get a familiar position.

8:26And coming to this psychology, yes, you can actually understand if someone is comfortable or not with their position. and that does give you some info if your opponent is not feeling comfortable and you can feel that then it gives you some confidence you can you know that you can push push harder in this game and also in terms of chess also you can feel it like if the momentum is going on your side or not um you can feel that okay and how do you analyze this body language where you get a sense that they're not happy with their opening. What are the subtle cues? Some players are really expressive.

9:07So those you can, anyone can understand. Some players you can, are not expressive. Like for example, Arjun, I think he's one of the top players who's not at all expressive. He just, I mean, he gives the same reaction if he wins or loses. And it's different for players. and I think once you know the person well, you can actually understand they'll, I mean, they will show something or the other. I was watching this one video of Carlson versus Bill Gates. Have you seen that video? Yeah, I watched it. Where he beats Bill Gates in like 20 seconds or something like that. Yeah, it's like in six moves or something.

9:48Yeah. So can you do that with... I can. With me, like six moves, seven moves, two moves, what would it be? It's possible. I can try to trick you. I think that's what Magnus did in that game. He was just playing for tricks. Okay. And you're well versed with all of the tricks? Or do you train yourself to play with tricks? It's not something that we will use at the top. Okay. It's just something that we can come up with during the game. Okay. And that's something you would use to play around, like fool around with noobs like me. Yeah, we can. It's possible. What makes Carlson great? He is, I think he has this intuition in every position, which is just amazing.

10:35Like he usually, when you actually see his game, even in shorter formats, he plays the top three choices of the computer every single time. And that intuition is something that he developed over a period of time. he is one of the players who knows a lot of classics from the past. He has read a lot and I think that's one thing that helps him. And also he's mentally really strong. You can never see him collapse in a tournament completely. You can, I mean, even when he actually makes a mistake, Like when he's lost, he's there fighting every chance he's getting. And he pushes till then. Like he tries every resource that's possible.

11:30He exhausts them. And I think that's one of the reasons he's at the top. and when he was coming up he was playing these end games which people in earlier days thought thought it was completely fine they will just make draws because of mutual respect for the players they think it's okay no one is going to win this let's make an early draw but Magnus started playing all those positions he started grinding and then started winning also so he's just universally strong and he's mentally also strong which which is really what do you think you have which he doesn't yeah it's an interesting question i've never thought about this actually if i have to speak about the style he's more of an intuitive player as i said he's his intuition is so good while i even though my intuition suggests a move i usually try to go in details and it's possible that i can catch him there because he hasn't gone into the details sometimes intuition can also be wrong and I can catch him and our games are always exciting which I always look forward to playing him do you cry after the game?

12:46have you ever cried? yes after the game you've lost? yeah yeah when did it happen last time? last time I was I was playing in I was playing in Prague Masters this year and before the last round I was training by half a point and I was if I win then I could catch the leader and I tried to play a fighting opening which backfired completely and I lost without a fight and that was yeah that was bothering me so much that I lost without a fight and I did cry a bit but I I'm usually good at recovering quickly okay and because you're talking about drama and emotions right what do you think is contribution of Samirayana and Sagar in the world of chess do you like them yeah I think they did contribute a lot Sagar Chess Base India covers every tournament that's possible and Sameh brought in new audiences to the game especially during the lockdown time when there were nothing much to do and I think that was one of so called good things happened to chess in a way because people started playing chess online and I think around the time Queen's Gambit also got released so all these things combined I think started this chess boom and also a lot of a lot of like people like Sameh streaming and bringing in new audience was definitely good for the game have you met him?

14:23no I think I've met him but we haven't really spoken so much okay and then what do you think should more people do something like what Sameh is doing there's an impact on the game of chess because of him yes but I think that's one of the reasons is because of those times when when we had nothing to do when everything was online now since chess is back to being played on the board and travel so much I think it's difficult to draw audience yeah do so much but still Sagar is covering every tournament to his best and and I think that's still bringing in audiences gold okay and i had a question on failure from you how do you reset yourself quickly because you said you're pretty good at recovering so when you fail what's your process to recover i think this again comes back to the thing that i focus more on on the on the game um even the example i gave i tried to fight for the first place and it just backfired on that day I mean it could have gone my way also it's possible and I was also playing a strong player and it backfired of course I was upset for a few minutes but then I did what I should have done I mean in hindsight also I should try to fight for the first place and I did my best and it didn't work out that day so it's fine let's go to the next tournament and when you're at the game and you could sense that oh this person made a mistake and you know now for him it's a downhill battle right you can sense that that person is almost going to lose what does losing smell like in that moment like can you smell fear can you smell anger can you smell regret can you smell disappointment what does it smell like differs from player to player majority of them top players disappointment mostly regret that also yeah i mean top player can realize where where things actually started going out of control and even during the game when you realize it's it's absolutely gone you still you start thinking about that moment where where i could have improved and so on do you know there are a lot of lessons which can be learned from your life or the way you operate the mindset that you have like just blinders on focus it's one game at a time and then I'm ambitious I'm gonna go for the big thing I'm not gonna let anything affect me it's just incredible right it's a great mindset that you've built at a very young age what would you teach every Indian who's watching this from the world of chess that we should follow that as a principle in our life I believe that you know we should always try to go for the maximum but when you don't get it you shouldn't worry too much about it you'll get back and start start trying again comes essentially comes back to the saying that you just trust the process and not worry too much about the result because not everything is in your hands and for example let's say you are doing a great podcast you are in this zone but if I'm not speaking well, then it is not going to be a good forecast.

18:00Not everything is in your hands. And I think same with any field, anywhere. There are always things that are out of your control. So you just try to do what you can. Give your best in that. So how do you prepare for world level matches? I try to do the same thing I will do for a normal game. Also for the important one. and i don't think it should differ because if it differs then it means that you're seeing it as an important one that means you're putting pressure on yourself which is which is not necessary it's there like you will yeah you pressure yeah yeah you will feel i'm not saying you have to feel i think it's as a human you will feel but these things add on to those pressure it's not required you just do your routine every day and um and especially these last round games are like crucial and there are always these pressure pressure uh pressure moments and but you just have to follow the routine that you have followed throughout the tournament and just do the same and um and usually when you play the game I mean, you don't really feel too much pressure.

19:22You just... Play for the game. Yeah, you just love the game and you're playing. You know how... Have you heard these stories of superstitions of cricketers? I know. So, a lot of cricketers who are at the top of the game, there are certain level of superstitions, which is just there. It's just become... So, on a big day of game, they'll follow the same routine. So, for example, like one of the biggest cricketers in the world would always wear pad on the left leg first and then on the right leg. Right? This you have heard. Another one of the biggest cricketers always wear the same gloves. With which gloves he probably must have hit hundreds and centuries with that.

20:03So he would wear the same glove because he had the superstition key. Okay, because of the gloves I would have did that. There are a bunch of things like these. Do you have any of that? I have my routines. but what routine sometimes let's say I'm playing a tournament and I'm going in one direction and and I win I just try to follow it I guess that's one of the superstitions you can say but these things change you play different tournaments so it's not like a proper one okay and bodily do you feel any experience like how does pressure feel on your body before a big game like what how does your body react I was listening to this one conversation by Usain Bolt where he was saying that whenever there's a big game or there's a Olympics race going on right before it the body gets stiff his body gets like it's in that zone that even if you try to arm twist him you won't be able to because the whole body has gotten like stone cold and the moment the body listens to that clap or that pistol like that click automatically just body starts running like this he doesn't have to do anything his brain doesn't have to do anything it's just bodily experience that he will feel that tuck and then he'll start running you know that experience so before a big game or before a big race the body will show that it's it's frozen that's his way of feeling or dealing with pressure this is early days of Sainz Bord how does it happen with you like what does the body feel I think when you do something different because it's it's an important one that's when you are saying to yourself that it's it's a different one yeah but it is important how can you deny the fact that it's not important no it is important we all know it but once you actually I mean show it physically then it's I think creates unnecessary pressure like you can there is obviously pressure but so do you tell your brain you're like oh that's just another it's just another other day it's okay go ahead we'll go we'll play we'll win and we'll come back um no i i agree it's a pressure game but when you actually do things you just have to do the routine because that's what actually got you there so true do you visualize sometimes yeah before the game you visualize this is what's gonna happen this is what happened this is what i'll do if this happens then i'll do this and this is my victory moment yeah you can okay victory moment is difficult but But I do sometimes think about how can the game progress.

22:50Just the way I want, how I want the game to be. But is it part of your process, visualization? No, it's not something that I, it's something that happens. Okay, it just happens. If you happen to think about the game, it's great. It's not a routine that you follow. It's not something that I need to do. Okay. interesting and I've always wondered why do you put Vibhuti here this is basically the ash so we we come from the ash and we go back to it so we are we are basically I mean whatever we do is not not something like great like we just we'll anyway go back to ash so there is nothing to be you know nothing to be like arrogant or things like that so just so that's one of the reasons there are i guess various reasons and something that i've something that i've been doing it from my young age and i still keep doing it and the reason which you were told which you believe in is this is ash we were ashes we're gonna again be ashes so there's nothing you should be arrogant about because you're insignificant yeah just live and go back like don't be egoistic about it yes okay you believe in that yeah i mean that reason like i i believe in it and i think it's true so it's um i mean also like to me it makes sense and i if it works for me then i'll take it tell me about your childhood when was the first time you saw chess so the way i started chess is a bit accidental my sister was the first one to play in our family and she picked it up just because when she was around five she was watching a lot of television and a lot of cartoons so my My parents wanted her to spend her time more productively.

25:05And they joined her in drawing and chess class. And there she picked it up, chess. And the trainer early on realized that she has talent in it. And then she started playing chess. And I used to practice at home. And for me, it was very interesting. these pieces and the chess board and i started um i started to learn my parents realized i had uh i've grown fun of this game and they got me chess board and i started playing this is how i started i was around three okay i don't think i can i can sit long to learn so i used to go like half an hour to to a club nearby and just learn the rules just play games and but why would your parents put you in a chess class or like chess learning environment at the age of three what was going on in their mind have you ever asked them i'm not sure i think it was because i was so interested in the game that they had to do something yeah three three and a half i started learning the rules and i played my first state championship by the age of five wow yeah that was quite early for for chess player interesting but then was there something your parents noticed particularly about you or they were like oh because your sister plays let us ask like let us put you in that game as well I guess they saw how much interested I was and they I mean they tried to have a trainer teach me the rules and I don't think it was some sort of plan to it was never a plan to okay so was it your parents dream or your dream first that's an interesting question I guess it's it was mine oh it was yours what age you realized that hey I want to be and I want to play at the global level I want to be in the number one I'd probably say when my first success came which was I finished second and under seven nationals yeah it was I was six years old and and I was one year younger than the players who were playing it was seven under seven national center finishing second I qualified to the Asian and the World Championship under 8 which is I mean back then it's like a huge thing you're going to you're going abroad and to play a tournament I was I was quite excited and I really started believing that again at the age of 8 yeah around 7 that's incredible did you share this dream at the age of 8 with your parents like hey I think we were all in the same page there was no discussion we were all okay we all knew like everybody knew this is gonna happen yeah we were just yeah we were focused on playing tournaments and whatever that was taking us to the top but I'm just I'm amazed at this point that at the age of 8 parents decided that okay let's play we're gonna support our kids they wanna compete professionally they wanna go on the world level we'll do that we'll travel with them we'll provide the infrastructure for them we'll get the funds for them we'll do everything whatever they need right and we will not focus on the studies we'll focus more on chess like how is that possible how is because what we hear is especially in the South Indian family it's studies are very important right like you need to study and you need to get a good marks there yeah I guess it's it's their belief I'm still wondering how it it all happened I guess it had to do with the fact that we were also showing results that things we were achieving things early on and there were progress which also I guess assured them that it is going on the right track and and I think there were never like a doubt that is it is it the right way or not we were just doing it yeah we were just doing it and as I said like I was having some good results which which proved that we were on the right track but have they ever told you that oh you know you need to study first focus on that and then you'll figure this out no that there was never there never even when I give my exams nowadays they are like just I mean just do your best if you get a pass mark enough that's it nobody cares about also I became an IM at the age of 10 which is uh fourth grade or fifth grade I'm not sure so it's it's very early on and you can always um let's say if I didn't do that I can always shift back to the studies and get back on track so it's not uh since I achieved something special early on that I can I think I showed them I think that's the thing and at the age of 12 you became GM yes at the age of 12 do you like that feeling or you don't like that feeling that oh I was the second youngest at this point it doesn't matter okay and so when I was trying for this GM title I became an Angus International Master which was a record back then and from international master to grandmaster i had two years of a gap and i think i could have become grandmaster faster but the fact that i wanted to break this record of being the youngest grandmaster actually like slowed me down and and once i realized that i couldn't break it i became a grandmaster in like three months and i think i was too young to handle this kind of like title pressure things and i think that's one of the reasons but now when i look at it it honestly doesn't matter if i became three three months younger or three months apart like it doesn't matter because when the goal is like higher than these small things i mean don't really of course it doesn't matter but what do you think what was going on in your head which stopped you from doing that because you said you could have become it faster though yeah there were i mean there were people writing about me there were like people coming to take pictures all this was new to me i was when i was just 10 11 and and these things i think affected me um i i guess it's there was some self-pressure like i was trying to push myself which um which creates this unnecessary pressure um and also like reading articles about like whether I can break it or not all these are just it bothered yeah I wouldn't say it bothered it probably put more pressure on me which is not not really necessary but do you get bothered by the pressure and what people write today no not anymore I realized from that experience that people will be writing about you and it's not I mean you can't really control anything and i yeah i usually switch off i'll say not just when i'm playing a tournament i i don't look at social media or anything just just focusing on the game throughout and then once i'm done okay then i can i can relax but during the tournament it's just about chess okay i was saying i grew up in an environment okay where apart from my father and my uncle i have seen nobody playing chess like around me there was none of my friends played chess nobody i've never seen this phenomena in my house there were two people playing but never for i've never heard anyone around me in an environment that somebody wants to become a chess champion to me when i hear about you or the stories about you and the whole the phenomena which is coming up in the south to me that's exciting why do you think is that like why there are so many great players from the south and not from the north yeah so first of all uh it's true like i've heard so many people saying that i played chess 20 years back and now i am able to play it again because of you know because of the interest growing right now and it's yeah it's great to see that and even my dad was playing when he was when he was a child.

33:48So, yeah, chess was always there in every home. And people are getting more and more interested now because of the interest growing. But why do you think in South there are more chess players? Like if you look at the top three, all of you guys are from the South. Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons is because of Anand, sir. I came from Chennai and there is, there is already an existing system where there are tournaments happening regularly where there are a lot of trainers and that's why I think we have this we have this starting advantage so to say that we you know we get the opportunities there but right now I think it's it's growing everywhere in India there are kids coming from all over the all over India and and that's one of the reasons why India is growing because there's just so much competition within us and then when you go and play abroad you're just so much stronger.

34:46But do you think it has to do more with something else than just infrastructure? Because look at, I was trying to compare this, okay? We have a lot of wrestlers from North India and we have a lot of chess players from South India and you don't have a lot of chess players from North or a lot of wrestlers from South. Do you think it's some culturally something different is there or the focus of parents and families is on somewhere else? I'm not sure about that. I mean there are some strong players from the north also but as you said the ratio is not as much as from the south and it could be interesting because as I said I think the starting advantage for example wrestlers from the north is much easier for them because they have people to look up to it's much easier for them there are training tools and everything I think that's one of the reasons but But also maybe, I mean, from the south, chess is given more interest.

35:50I think it comes back to the point that Anand sir coming from the south, I mean, played a role. Because you started idolizing that person and you started feeling like, oh, he's someone around us. And that's how the inspiration started. Yes. For me, the first time I saw Anand sir was a nice story. I studied in Valamal school and they have they have interest in sports and they are about 12 or 13 grandmasters from the school wow and they support chess and other sports very much so when I was seven Anand sir had just won his world championship match against Gilfand and he was coming back to Chennai and our school had arranged a whole bus of players just to see him arrive and I was one of the players we went there and it was such an inspiring moment for both me and my sister and within one month we played in Asian Championship I was playing under 8 Championship and I won it convincingly.

36:56I think these are the moments that you get when you are around when you are around the champions and also the match in 2013 of Farnan Sir against Magnus. I was there watching the match and ironically we were discussing this recently with Arjun and Krukej that they were also there during that match and maybe that had to play some role that we were inspired. Okay and then you spoke about your parents that without them it was not possible. They supported you a lot. What do you think? what did they sacrifice for you? Yeah, so my mother traveled to me to every tournament. And since my sister is also playing a lot of tournaments, it's difficult for them to manage.

37:47And my dad, it takes care of everything that is apart from traveling. Especially when we were growing up, we were not having so much idea about everything. And we learned it in the process and yeah, he manages everything and my mother travels to me to every tournament and they take care of everything that I have to do. My job is just to come to the board, just play chess and go back to training and come back. This is all what I do and they just do everything for us and also they never come to me and say say that you have to win this tournament or you have to do this no they just they just never put pressure on me in terms of chess chess is um chess is my side and rest they take care of that's it yeah they don't let you think about anything at all no right and then does it ever happen like you have a good game you have a great day and you win and you don't win you lose the game and then you go back to your mother and be like hey i lost or your mother would be right right there like everybody everybody's expecting that you'll win and then you go with the losing phase do they do they ever show disappointment no not really never no matter when you lose they'll never show disappointment no they the first thing they say is like it's okay we'll see tomorrow i think that's the first thing i always get because they know that i i am there giving my best and they also understand it's sports and yeah so they understand everything and they just they never talk about chess and um and even when i'm traveling alone if i'm talking to my mother on the phone the first thing she will ask is did you have a good sleep and did you get good food and that's the thing they ask they never go about chess and um as i said they just um they just leave chess to me and try to make sure that i'm i'm at my best they are not involved in chess part of it okay have you read this book inner game of tennis i know have you heard of it no no okay so there's so there's a book inner game of tennis and it talks about what goes on inside the tennis players mind when they're playing tennis and something like what you said it's just about that like when people play for winning the game they end up winning much more versus when they play for not to lose like the moment they go into court and be like hey i don't want to lose this game and that's why i'm going to play my best that is the day when they play their worst because they're just trying to not lose like this is how brain works and the same player just different mindset different experiment works out much better when they go to play win that's true uh from my experience as well when you're we i've had these matches when i play and when you win the first game and you need a draw in the second one the way people play differ from the way they played in the first game i myself have done that because the second game you're you don't want to lose and i think that that really um you know you don't give your best when you're doing that yeah you're trying to take some shortcut and things usually backfire in those cases do you feel pressure that now you're number four so you need to become number one no no i'm ambitious i mean i'm ambitious that i want to become number one but that is not self-pressure um i i will give my absolute best towards that and yeah and we'll see if i can make it or not that's but uh what do you think you'll be able to make it I believe I can bye bye I don't usually give myself these time periods I think that's where you start to put pressure on yourself for me I have these long term goals but I I don't think about these things for me I'm going to play a tournament next that will be my focus and before a game next game is going to be my focus so I think that's how it works for me doesn't matter by when you just know that it's going to happen yeah just believe and I think it's important to believe yourself too 100 % 100 % I believe in this too I am a big believer of self-belief yeah that's a nice way to put it yeah like I think and I also believe that there's a so I study Michael Jordan a lot so Michael Jordan believes that everything in life happens twice once inside your head and then reality so if inside you don't believe that you won the championship you've become the world number one if you don't believe that yourself and inside your head it has not happened it's not going to happen outside so that's why I believe in self-believe a lot yeah that's true you have to believe that you'll be the best and true tell me about your day-to-day life as a teenager 12 year 13 year old 14 year old when you were grandmaster already and you had these ambitions and now it's a in the family everybody's accepted society everybody's accepted now this is his path forget everything else he's going to compete this on a world level and going to win okay what was your routine like from morning to night as a teenager what would you do uh i never did things that teenagers do okay what did you do so there are days when i train with my trainer and there are days where i train myself okay and if i'm training with my trainer it's uh he lives 45 minutes apart from my home so i get up i get ready go to his place and by what time by 10 10 30 you're there yeah okay and then we start training till five six and then i come back then already it's it's done for the day okay and i try to take some rest okay so now let's talk about your training so from 10 a.m till 6 p.m what would you train on give me an a normal day what do you work on what are the things that you do is it i'm sure it's not just playing games against each other right yeah um so we so my trainer has a lot of different types of positions which he can show me and i can have to come up with the best decision in those positions and when you train train different types of position you get to i mean you get understanding of different types of position you train to think in a certain way in certain types of positions and all these things develop and you take five to six hours every day to train it's a mentally challenging game like you're just at it you're constantly just thinking what many things and when you're off game you're still thinking about it do you think chess players they are more mentally stable or they're mentally tortured simply asking if you are crazy or not because you when when i okay my reference point is forgive me for my lack of knowledge because i don't i've never gotten an opportunity to go inside deep brain of inside the brain of somebody who who's a chess player at that level okay so my reference point is queen's gambit and she goes crazy she mentally tortures herself to become this one player because 24-7 she's just thinking this one thing.

45:55And even when she wants to get distracted with a lot of substances and people and things, she's still in that hallucinated mind space also. She's thinking about chess. So it's a mental torture at least that's what they show. Yeah, you can see it as one of the ways to see it. But yeah, when you like the game so much, it's always there. And I mean, we all have, we have all chess in our mind throughout the day. I don't think there is a single day where I didn't think about chess. It's always there. I'm sure I open my phone every day just to look at some games that's going live somewhere. Even if it's not the strongest tournament, I'm sure all the top players do this.

46:44because we just like chess and we want to keep doing it. And I think chess players are also absent-minded in some sense because we do keep thinking about chess and we forget where we are and what we are doing and all these things. So yeah, there are some good things about chess if you're so crazy about it and some things you have to give up. And you feel you constantly pressure yourself to not think about anything and just think about chess. Do you do that? No, it's just automatically. It's automatically you're just in that zone 24-7. Yeah, it's not like I have to bring up chess. It's just there.

47:34Like I'm sure something similar to you when you're, I don't know, looking around, you're thinking about what should I do next? Yeah. like what should I talk about so all these things it's similar for a chess player like we are if you are if you are sitting there we think about for me especially like I'm I'll think about okay I'm going to play this next tournament how should I prepare which which lines to play and all these kind of things like what routine to have all these things will be there in my mind and i mean i think this is how i don't know maybe we'll see maybe in the future it won't be like this you'll be able to switch it on and switch it off yeah today you're not today i'm not unfortunately there's no switch it's just fully going on okay have you seen queen's gambit no you know about it right yeah i know okay so there's a scene in the movie where she falls in love with the game she gets obsessed and she's sleeping on her bed and on the top, okay, on the wall, she can see the chess, like all those moves happening.

48:43She can see the pawn going here or a knight going here. And she's just playing even in her resting state. She could see that board. She sees board when she's walking around in a shadow. Like it's just imaginary board in front of her where all she's trying to do is play moves and win the game. Does it happen with you? Yes. we have I think all the chess players have have a board in their mind and if you say the notation right now I can just quickly imagine it it's not a it just comes from the practice like we have board on our head and it does happen that we sometimes just just make make moves on our on our imaginary board and start playing so you do that yeah imaginary board what the most geekiest thing like this you have done like do you play on your on the wall or right above your head while you're sleeping or do you you do something else it doesn't necessarily have to be that i have to look at look up to play i mean i can speak to you and i still think about okay it's not uh i mean it does happen that someone shows me a position to solve and i look at that position and then i'm doing something else and suddenly i realized i have found the solution because i've been thinking all along so i'm sure all the top players do all these kind of things it's just yeah chess is always there with us 24 by 7 but do you have friends only chess friends see that's what because i was wondering you must be surrounded with just coaches competitors chess friends and your ecosystem would be just this you don't have friends for anything else yeah I think that's a sacrifice we have to we have to make do you see this as a sacrifice yeah I think so I mean I would for sure love to have some friends apart from chess but it's I mean when you play so much when you are you know when you are trying to do something something different then yeah you have to sacrifice do you ever feel that you would want to have a personal life maybe have a good relationship maybe have yeah for sure but right now my focus is on this and i feel this is the right time you know for me like i feel like i'm on good i'm in a good shape good good mental shape and i'm also feeling like my game is improving so um i feel this is the right time to focus focus on chess and okay all right nothing else you don't miss it I think there's always time in life and I feel this is the time for chess so I just do it now that you talk only chess chess chess okay so let me ask you something about is there money in chess yes earlier it used to be that only top players would make money from playing and then coaches or trainers would make from training.

52:02But now because of all this streaming thing has boomed, there are so many ways to, for example, Sagar is a chess journalist, covers all the tournaments and that's one way of doing it. And obviously there is still training and that side and also playing. There is, I think, more money than it used to be because we have more and more opportunities, more tournaments coming up. This year we had eSports World Cup for chess and which is a new avenue. So there are more such ways. And also top players do get like corporate support. I'm currently being supported by Adani group and those kind of support you also get I have last two questions for you actually before I ask the last two questions you played game with Modiji that was only for the photo or you played the game no we didn't we didn't have time to play the whole game we were just mainly we were talking what were you talking to just about like getting to I mean, he was asking a lot of questions and getting to know about me and my family, my sister and everyone.

53:25So I didn't feel like I was talking to someone such a high position. Felt like I was talking to someone that I knew. It's like I'm conversing with you right now. and yeah I and not just me my parents also felt the same way and it's not conversing just to me but also with my parents asking about their their life my my dad's job and everything so yeah it was a it was a nice conversation you what did what stood out for you I think this fact that even though he was in such a high position he could make people comfortable speaking speaking and I think that's something that I'm still trying to learn because there are fans who come and come up and speak and I'm not the not the one who makes them comfortable so what do you do?

54:31no sometimes I'm just I'm just awkward and that makes them awkward. The whole situation awkward. It's like somebody comes like, hey, can I have a picture or can I talk to her? And then you were like, no. No, I never say no, but I say yes and I take a picture, but sometimes I'm just not there. I'm thinking about something else. And here was the last question I wanted to ask you this, that if your future self could write a letter to you today, what would it ask you to stop or start immediately? I think I should get physically stronger which I'm working on I think I should just continue doing that I think that's something that my future self would want me to do that So start getting hard at physical getting in a better shape Yes Incredible Very quickly you have to tell me about this board I'm a beginner and I have no idea about let's say how to play chess I mean I just know what which object is supposed to do what so if I'm a complete beginner and if there are people like me who are watching this what's one trick you can teach us which will help us beat some people yeah first of all this board looks really cool that was the first thing that caught my eye when I entered and yeah the first thing to know in chess is that you have to control the centers okay because when you control the center you can play on the both both side so starting moves either starting with the e4 this is called e4 because to the notation it's if i play this yeah okay and black's best moves supposed to be here to try to control the center and if let's say he plays something else yeah white tries to control the center and gets the piece out, tries to develop and then tries to play in the center because that's how you have to do.

56:33So everything, what I have to do is just try to control this part. Yes, mainly the center and so that you can play on the both sides and usually it's said that it's better to bring the knights first and then the bishop and there's like, let's say a normal opening could be getting the knight out. you're attacking this pawn right now so let's say i defend this and you get the bishop out and then you do short castle so that your king is safe and then you can start playing on the king on the center okay and and so i do this here and then and then yeah you can break in the center you can bring your knights out okay let's try this random thing okay let's i half of things i didn't get but i'm gonna try it again okay so let's say if i okay let's in how many seconds can you beat me that's the game let's try to do this yeah i can it depends okay i don't even know how to play this so i'm gonna try so you're giving me a check right now

57:47I don't know That's something Yeah that's possible But it's It's stupid It's not great Because you'll beat this Yeah yeah And then this is my Queen Queen is the strongest piece So you And right now Attacking your bishop So you have to Save this Save that But no matter where I go If I Like go back you're still in an attacking mode yeah I can I'm attacking this guy also so I can take this for free for nothing yes yeah that's a good move because you're attacking attacking my player as well and then if I do this you do that so what do I do here what should be the obvious move yeah the thing is you have to try to bring your pieces out okay but then here is yeah here I'm controlling with my pawn but almost everywhere I'm getting yeah one of the ways is to trade trade my pawn like accept that you're you're down a pawn and try to get your pieces out yeah that's a good move okay you're trying to get your knight out if I take

59:05and there's a thing in chess like sometimes you sacrifice a pawn just to get peace peace activity and development okay i have to take my another piece out right so let me try to do this yes i can't be sure yeah taking with the queen would have been better because you're bringing more pieces out oh okay okay i'll try to do this next time go ahead so the idea is take more pieces out yeah usually you don't bring the queen out too early but this is a that would have been a better move because now what do I do probably this that gives up a bond and then what this is a queen right yeah that's a good one so there is this special move called castling okay what is castling so oh sorry when the king is king this is the starting position of the king and rook and there is this special move which is called castling and you can do on the both sides okay which is basically that I shift yeah you shift and you get this to this position if I have not touched any of them then only I can do this you cannot if you have already moved your pieces one of the either king or rook then you can't castle or if the squares or if these squares are controlled okay let's say my bishop was here and it's controlling this square then you can't castle but right now i can yeah you can so if i do this so that's a move it's it's a love done okay yeah it's a legal move so your turn now okay let's finish this beat me and let's what do you do it's a check yeah bishop is and then rook is stronger than the bishop so it's a good good trade for you yeah i have my knight so i can oh wait so okay now you can take it back okay well let's try to do something else yeah this is better it's a check my queen yeah you have to move Okay.

1:01:19King, then queen. This is your? Knight. Okay, then my queen's off. Yeah. I have to move my queen somewhere. And no matter where I move, I'm... Yeah, this is called a fog because I'm attacking both your king and queen. So I have to sacrifice one. You have to give up your queen. and now I can take with my knight

1:01:53and now I'm left with what? this? yeah

1:02:01what do I do? yeah it's already bad bad for you