How Indigo Became A Successful Airline Business In India? - Aditya Ghosh | FO338 Raj Shamani

40:15Do you think it would have made a difference? Or they would have done better? Of course, hindsight is 20-20, but I feel that would have been a great advantage because I was met 2014 you don't get distracted, you say I'm 10 % market share what would I do 10 % market share let me do what they have to do low cost carriers or domestic airlines let me go after the big boys I'll give you another analogy I often talk to any person to any manager को किसी भी बिजनेस को ये बहुत important है कि वो समझें कि what is their core strength भई आपका क्या fortress है तब आप किस चीज में 30 mark है और जिस दिन आपने समझ लिया कि ये मेरा fortress है आप उसको किसी भी तरीके से you must protect that fortress and play to that strength आपको एक analogy देता हूँ Sachin Tendulkar probably 1987 he played the first international cricket and very soon he understood that the world he understood that this batting is his fortress okay he played for India for 25 or 26 years and when he retired He retired as the world's greatest batsman.

41:49He did not retire as the world's greatest captain, as an all-rounder, fielder, bowler. Did he attempt? Of course, saw wicket bhi liye, saw catches bhi liye, ye sab kariya. Magar there was no doubt in his mind, ki bhai, this is my fortress and I will not let anybody breach this fortress. Chai uske liye. you have to do a trade-off trade-off was that 100 crore people are watching you live on the television you are playing international cricket and someone who was in primary school when you were playing international cricket you are calling him captain and you have no ego you say if that is what is required to win the game and it does not it allows me to protect my fortress I don't mind calling somebody else captain.

42:47So, in this way, where is confidence? It comes when you think that this is my core. You should understand any business.

43:02Domino's in 1961, Michigan State started. There were three stores. in the first year. And in the first year, they had 300 pizza in the first year. True story. 1961. In today's history, have 50 crore pizza in the year. Until recently, we have 40 crore to go. I'm assuming that 40 crore pizza every year. 1 ,000-40 crore. 100. sauce sauce ھیک मगर وہ magarita pizza का जो taste है वो 1961 में था आज भी जाई दूसी वही है that is consistency मगर इसका ये मतलब नही है कि वो stagnate कर गये 100 या 1000 से 50 करोड pizza को बेचने के लिए कितनी innovation without losing focus here's my follow up question yeah how can an entrepreneur understand his core strength I think there are I feel there are 5 or 6 elements which make great businesses okay

44:31and I'll name those 5 or 6 things but if you see that in these 6 things which one or two normally is not much more you are the world's best or you have the interest to be the world's best you are cricket playing cricket in batting, bowling, wicket keeping fielding coaching coaching bhi hai magar in 4-5 chizoh mein aisa kya hai jis mein I am the best aur meri mei ye shamtah hai meri mei ye curiosity hai passion hai ki mein usi chiz ke pichche laga raha raha raha raha raha this is lesson number one lesson number two is that kishi bhi entrepreneur ko chai this is like you have interviewed Ritesh or I talk about Rajiv or whatever Vinay Dubey who is my partner in Akasa Anjan Chatterjee who is my partner in Chauranghi restaurant which is great entrepreneurs in which they have a very amazing quality that they have always a big list that in these things I am not the world's best in their drawbacks they have a longer list of things which they are not good at Piyush Bansal Amit Chaudhary Lenskart my friends they will always ask these are the 10 things I am not great at amazing but the second most important thing is is that they have a deep sense of respect they have a deep sense of respect that there is a thing that I can't do so not only am I going to surround myself with people but I actually come from a genuine sense of respect that this is what I am doing that is what I am doing what are those six things very first is are you truly customer oriented you really enjoy being around customers مطلب you really enjoy it چاہے وہ complain کر رہا ہو چاہے وہ آپ کو گالی نکال رہا ہو آپ کو بچی کر رہا ہو call center میں ہو مگر آپ اپنے customer کو اتنا پہچانتے ہیں اس کی life اتنا پہچانتے ہیں وہ کہاں پہ سو رہا ہے where he lives, where he lives, where he eats, where he eats, where he wears, what is his spending pattern, this, that, you're obsessed with customers.

47:34Number two, you're equally obsessed with employees. That is my obsession for example. I enjoy it. I really enjoy it. Koi complain, crib, krip, this, that, I really enjoy it. That's number two. that can you really be employee centric number three is where you have a natural knack of building a financially sustainable business I don't say profitable because when you're building a 10-20 year business 10-20 years in a year sometimes you'll be profitable sometimes you'll be not but financially sustainable or not the revenue revenue should be reduced that do you have a natural knack to really see that I can optimize financial engineering that is number three number four is that do you have a knack for innovation agility one word which is nowadays people like in the church people like but I hate it is the word hustle I'm a big fan of the word agility Hustle and agility There is a difference So I'm a big fan of word agility Agility leads to long term innovation Hustle leads to short term band-aids This is number four number five is are you comfortable with scale that's that's yes that's another thing you know maybe because I'm trained as a lawyer I don't think anyone from scale I don't think I don't think like if there's 100 people's audience versus 10 ,000 people's audience there's 2 vehicles or you know 1 ,000 vehicles or 100 hotels or I work My brain works in processes And systems To scale up And the last is A deep sense of purpose Ratan Tata Deep sense of purpose Not all the Tata business Are successful, profitable You know sometimes they do But there is someone who holds That deep sense of purpose Which is very important So I think great entrepreneurs, they are able to figure out which one of these six things drives the most amount of passion.

50:29It comes to me naturally. I get excited about it. And then which are the other things which are not good at? So you need to choose one. Yeah. I mean, I think you choose one or two and say, look, I really have the chance to be the world's best at it. What's your one? I think I really enjoy people so both the customer side as well as the internal side I really enjoy being around people I feel like I'm doing something jahan pe logon pe kuch impact hor raha hai right it may sound very it may sound very egotistical it may sound very vanity centric but my biggest very important it's a grunt work but I love it right and I really really like it And the other thing is like just kind of being able to do it at scale.

51:18I think that is that comes to me. You said that almost all businesses fail in airlines specifically and in India specifically, the biggest cost is the cost. So, Kingfisher, Jet Airways, all of them same issues? Absolutely. All of them, financial crisis, Airdick and… Around the world, same issue. Okay. and so talking about indigo you were saying you didn't tell me that how they managed cost because this model didn't exist in India where someone has proved they were the mavericks to prove this actually the cost structure of airline is very simple 40 % is fuel and how much fuel you are burning and therefore how much you are spending on fuel okay around give or take 20 20 % aircraft ownership cost okay lease debt aircraft related lease rental हो यह सब चीज़ है 10-15 % जो है उसके उपर आप maintenance के लिए लगा लेजे 10-15 % 15 % लगा लेजे is maintenance anywhere between 12-15 % आप लगा लेजे people cost ठीक है अब आप इसको जोड़ेंगे 90 % Baki joh 10 percent hai.

53:05Oh yeah ground handling yeh sab. Thick hai. Okay. So now if you. Operating fees vagirah wosab ka hai hai wosab wosab last 10 percent hai. Achha. Khi airport ki fees or landing and all other. Okay. Ab agar ap in 5 buckets mein se agar ap 4 buckets ko choose kar hai.

53:29Let's first think of aircraft ownership cost. Jog loog airline business is very capital intensive but by the way if you today want to create data centers for powering artificial intelligence you know GPUs and things like that that also is massive capital intensive the steel factory be capital intensive so I don't think just because it is capital intensive people can't do this business right Okay Malija, you are market and you have 5 kilos and you have 1 kilos 1 kilo 1 kilo 2 kilo so you will have a certain rate but if you market and you have 5 kilos or 10 kilos you will wholesale market price obviously right Right.

54:28If you have done something more, I will tell you that I have a year of aloo. I will tell you that I will give you money. 60 kilos. Okay, 60 kilos. Storage, I will keep it or you will keep it. But whatever it is, you figure out that committing to that, because you know I'm going to eat aloo. Okay, you have committed a longer term and you have now got aloo at a lower price. 60 kilos versus 10 kilos is very different. most difference now you are in that you are making almond in that you are making with your almond I am making with your I am making half a kilo half a kilo half a kilo every rose so my cost of that almond is higher your cost of the almond is lower airplanes are exactly like that so so if you 10 planes or 50 planes or 100 planes or 300 planes it fundamentally brings down your cost of acquisition.

55:32Obviously, massively. Right. But 100 jahaz kharidnye ka paisa bhi toh nai hota hai. Acha. Aakdam sahab, kya 100 jahaz kharidnye ka paisa? And 100 jahaz kharidnye ka paisa nai hota, dousara, aapke paas conviction bhi nai hota hai. I mean, 100 jahaz chalad dhua, kya hooga? And aapko eek chiz, dhonoh indigo rakaasa mein aapko eek chiz dhyan rakhna hai, ki indigo ne jub 2005 mein jahaz order kiyo thay, 9-11 was only before 3-4 years. It was like the turmoil. When Akasa ordered the aircraft, COVID was going on. So, it's also timing of the issue. But then what gives you the conviction? So, we will be closed many aircrafts already.

56:16And what gives you the conviction? Back to item number one. 110 10 crore people, 100 aircraft, demand supply gap. So you have to think, you have to know that this is worth it. The newer the vehicle, the newer the plane, the newer the technology on it, the less fuel you burn. The lighter the airplane, the less fuel you burn. So when people ask them, but you know, one plane is another plane. No, it's not. No, it's not. the technology on that airplane the engine on that airplane the weight of that airplane the maintenance cost of that airplane you've already covered three of the buckets then you look at everything else efficiency of the number of people so first large bulk order of planes and all new planes all new planes bulk order of airplanes brand new engines engines that burnt less fuel lighter the airplane people efficiency, productivity let's say King Fisher or Jet Airways didn't do so none of this never ordered not done the other this was also this is very interesting this goes back to what I said in the beginning means and wants needs and wants here customer can understand if you think if you think that customer can eat seat newspaper bag carry customer who customer can't say cannot say customer is the things that customer should zu in many is bus can

58:29do So, in many places, you talk about hotels or buses or something like that. You talk about phone. It's very important to understand what are the needs. And to chase it. What Rajiv Bajaj said, focus. Yeah. To chase it. It's very important. You moved from Indigo. Yes. Why? you became president you became the hot talk of the town GQ so many young people like me weren't getting inspired I think the simple reason was that when I had of course done this for a while now I was also again back to that same 28 year old you know

59:25what else can I do there are so many things that I'm interested in secondly that kind of a role is a very exhausting you know you're just running on the treadmill every day right even if you're enjoying it still it's a very tiring role the third is also that you know there were other circumstances which were outside my control the I mean the two shareholders had their own issues you know it naturally has an effect on you as well and fortunately I was 42 years old I said okay this is if this is the time to take that step right I had no idea what I'm going to do next and but at that time you know it is difficult and especially with something where you are so emotionally involved Dave and the churi you have said first EIS so but if I saw you in the past 6 years that Aditya goes 2.0 or 3.0 or whatever you want to call it it doesn't happen if I had not done that I mean today I'm involved in green cell mobility bus business in Manam chocolates chocolates in restaurant electric plane me involved or you know nutrition me involved or Akasa me involved a different role expanded role expanded this thing it doesn't happen but if you said you run it's like running on the treadmill yes it doesn't happen it's like that role so that role in Akasa I'm very lucky in Akasa I don't have to play without me

1:01:26I'm in a very fortunate position where I'm busier than I was at Indigo I'm way busier I'm busier than I was at my OYO role as a CEO but I'm blessed that I'm working with partners and teams who are really very good at that and it has allowed me to now kind of pursue multiple things at the same time look Raj no guarantee is not which one is going to be financially successful or not true time will tell, hard work will tell, circumstances will tell but it's a lot of fun that you're doing 10-15 different things with the ability to deep dive into something. Right. It's a lot of fun. Okay. And I hope more and more people do this.

1:02:27I have questions on Akasa. Because you're enjoying, you're doing a bunch of things. Right. But same airline then started. And why did it? Because the question is that That demand supply gap. Today is low cost. It wasn't before that time. पर नहीं थी, तो there was a competitive edge in the market की सब लग वो premium market की तरफ जा रहे है 18 ,000, 20 ,000 वाले हैं, मैं 5 ,000 में ticket लेकिए होगा, मैं करूँगा काम, that was the idea अब क्या हुआ 2020-21 में अगर आप circumstances को देखे हैं 2, 3 airline bankrupt होई, pandemic ने किसी और की हवा निकाल दी, fare started again rising

1:03:43pre-covid better planes. Their fleet simplification is very strong because we are talking about that they buy one type of planes like Emirates and Indigo and they have all things they have aceed. In fact, it would have been easier for them to block routes, schedules, gates, everything in their hands. But that is the thing that like in many things in this country, whether you talk about cars, washing machine, refrigerators, hospitals, schools, airlines, buses, right? Demand is so much that there is huge opportunity. But what's your edge? Edge is again cost structure that very soon, we have now started 20 years later, 15 years later, very soon, in a few years time, we will get to a cost structure that is lower or comparable.

1:04:44we are sticking to one type of aircraft and in this big market we are only getting two three hundred aircraft right and in a market where you think the two three airlines which have been bankrupt or massively shrinked they have been gaib ho gaya hai. Agar ham unhi ko replace kare hai. Forget about market growth or demand supply yeh wo there is but wo bankrupt isli ho na kyunki waha demand nahi ho ki loog nahi kharii dh raha waha is bankrupt isli ho kyunki unka cost structure hai ta. Bagi loog kharii dh raha tickets bhar raha flight bhar raha jari and and yeh actually may kuch data dh raha tha yeh to airlines hai agar washing machine or refrigerator penetration in India it is some less than 10 % less than 20 % now the same argument that who can afford that somewhere someone will come up with a washing machine which will be more affordable when I was in school Eureka Forbes was the only one creating Aquaguard water purifiers and that is a status symbol that goes down and now it has become a much more prevalent thing in the time of COVID air purifier and today's air purifier it's a lot of difference and that demand and that cost pressure creates innovation and a large part which we didn't speak about is schedule timing, route planning and where you have a prime spot or slot which is fundamental which is the secret sauce exactly because if you are saying that this business is commoditized price will be so much if flight for example indoor to Mumbai flight price is$5000 if someone else does a airline then it will not be booked before I will be booked so it is commoditized now low cost पर आ गए है तो low cost में भी अगर सब ने अपनी low cost कर ली Akasa और Indigo for example तो दूनों के पास सस्ते भी वो चीज़ है तो अब कौन जीतेगा विए तब कितना भी market कर लो कुछ भी कर लो it's about यह मेरे को कौन से मेरे time पर मिल सकता है absolutely right that's the winning absolutely 100 % How would you get that?

1:07:27100%. That's where it takes time. It takes time and tenacity that you have to... In the airline business, once you have that you have concentrated on cost structure, after that, everything is scheduled, scheduled, scheduled, scheduled, scheduled. There are two big advantages in India. One is that that no airline owns a slot. Okay. If you don't use it, those slots, parking base, come back into a common pool and gets redistributed. So, if two airlines, three airlines bankrupt or two airlines bankrupt or one shrink has been the slots or parking base, they come back into a common pool and gets redistributed.

1:08:21Item number one. so all airlines what do they do they do in the sense they say the regulator DGCA they see that you have a aircraft or in the near future where you can operate and there is a slot committee meeting that happens and this is a very well crafted well practiced this thing it happens twice in a year So, just to explain some examples. So, just to say... Indoor to Mumbai is now. Indoor to Mumbai is now. Go Air is now. Example. Go Air is closed. So, that is the slot. That is in common pool. In common pool. Now, that is in India. India is in India. Kasa is in India. So, who will give it?

1:09:11Okay. What is happening now? Three of the capacity is in the three of the planes. Three of the operations are in the three of the operations. Actually, there are changes. There are changes.

1:09:23so somebody might have a large fleet but does not have new aircraft coming somebody may have a small fleet but is getting five new airplanes and they say you give me a slot I will start this in 30 days and this is the example of Bombay Indoor it is actually in 100 places because the permutation combination in Chennai something has opened up something has opened up maybe one of these three airlines doesn't fly to Indore and they are saying I don't want to open up a new city I might as well get a new slot in a city that I am already operating in so this is one so this is one the second thing is that then there is a trade off I will give you this slot you will leave me that right but can you then influence the guy who's doing it no no because it's a very open like this thing secondly also you see there is another there's an operational complication that comes in which is talking about the plane is not just Bombay Indoor Bombay Indoor Bombay Indoor Bombay Indoor Indoor Calcutta Calcutta Hyderabad Hyderabad Bangalore now that slot if it's 10-15 minutes up and down and it delays everything else you say leave it I will take it right so that's one thing so that is one advantage but in this we are assuming here we are doing a major assumption that this is a limited asset which cannot expand.

1:11:13India has gone from 75 airports to 147 airports in the last 10 years. Bangalore has got two runways. Goa has got two airports. Mumbai will have two airports. Delhi will have, NCR will have two airports. Right. so capacity and the infrastructure is actually suddenly expanded where it won't be necessary and airlines usually because toxic work culture is a lot of work is that true cabin crews always dissatisfied and pilots cheat too because if they take extra flight then maybe they make more money per flight It just depends from organization to organization. I have spent 20 years in this business.

1:12:13You know, operating people, whether it is ground staff, pilots, flight attendants, cargo teams, engineering, security. They work very, very hard. Right. And not just hard in terms of hours, but they have to be on very high alert. It is not an easy job. Yeah. because irrespective of whether you are working for 1 hour or 16 hours

1:12:43you have to be constantly in very high alert

1:12:55thousands of my colleagues would have heard me say this you know Raj I am deeply grateful to the tens of thousands of people who makes me look good. Because this is an interesting business where one person cannot do anything. When I go to the airport and I watch a plane then my mind comes to me that this is a 100 million plane. There are passengers filled. Doors are closed. Engines are spooled up. ATC has given you clearance. Expedience pilots. flight attendants but if they are marshallers and you don't signal so as a CEO founder owner whatever you may be you can't move that plane so it's a deep reminder that we are all equals here we have different roles to play we are all like one but your work and my work is different but both are equally and is it very very strict because extremely I was speaking to it's a it's a in engineering terms or mathematical terms it's a 0-1 it's a binary system there is no 99.9 it is 0 or 1 I was speaking to one billionaire who owns like multiple private jets right and I expected that the world is the best way to do it and he was like that I have a slot let's say 9.30 I can't move that around I don't have a slot and I'm like you will have 15 flights and you will just move around and do it but he was like he was telling me US you can still do it because there are very private runways here you can't not just slots maintenance that this warning signal came as an experience that this will go no one can go no one can go no one can go your license will go so slot is that important you can't miss it 10 minutes also up and down slots, regulatory aspects, duty time limitations private jet I will take it it doesn't matter by chance if something happens and it gets caught that pilot will lose his license so that engineer will lose his license so that will not happen remember Canadian Prime Minister former Prime Minister he was coming and was coming Justin Trudeau came to meet the president and he had to go

1:15:33I don't know. After the official visit was over. I know. And if one flight is delayed, then how many losses are you? No, actually, it's not that there are penalties for late or not. No, it's not. It's actually this loss. Loss is different. I mean, I mean, that flight is delayed, but that was the last flight of the day or there was enough of a buffer before the next flight so it doesn't happen but naturally when you are if you see any network if you see any inefficiency in it it will lead to some higher cost so but generally speaking it's not like one delay will sink similarly in a good airline you employees ko kubh bhi fiscally incentivize nhi kertay ki on time badao kyunki kya hooga phir log kuch na kahin na kahin kuch corners cut kanna shuru karen ghe so motivation yes fiscal incentive never to kubh kisi pressure nhi ho ta ki is ko ڑhan nai padega to a p a p a p a p a p a p a

1:16:53p it would be a very dangerous thing to do. It would be a safety risk. Okay, tell me best airline and the worst airline you've flown in. Don't take Akasa and Indigo's name. You're not allowed. Worst, I will not say. Why not? Around the world, do it. What's going on? I think even some of the better airlines can deliver a very poor experience once in a while. best I think I'm a big fan of consistency I'm a really big fan of consistency so when I think about you know a great experience I don't I'm not a I'm not a fan of band-aid and pockets of excellence I'm a fan of consistency so I feel Singapore Airlines Qatar Airways

1:17:46Emirates also I think these are just and I'm purposely picking up those because they've been consistent over 20, 30, 40 years. And it's one thing to do it for two years, five years. The really, the big game is be able to do it over a long, long year. So that's the best time. Best airlines. I think so. Okay. And the worst? Come on. I think, I think, let me put it this way, then people can guess. I hate dirty seats. I hate, I hate, I hate, rude you know people you know i just i just i just think that we all know where this is going okay how much uh does a plane cost oh uh the it's typically what we call sticker price right the sticker price of of uh of these narrow body jets are somewhere in the 100 110 million dollar range maybe maybe plus mile which is 800 crores 90 crores but but that is not the price that the man is paying.

1:18:53And that is of course a secret number. Of course. Because it's a negotiated price. Correct. Exactly. But that's a price you pay. And then there's negotiation power. That's right. That's right. And a large A380 type double-decker type. $300 million, $400 million. But it's not just a double-decker. Like it's some of the more efficient airplanes. You know. Now it's not But it's when you, when you go to wide body aircraft, there's a lot of things on mission capability. That exactly I have to go in so many nautical miles, which is the most efficient airplane, how much engine burn, how much maintenance costs, how many passengers I can carry, how many speeds I can carry.

1:19:42So there's a lot of factors. Do you fly private now? No, no. I've only flown I've only flown a private jet once. Only once and that too because we were in those days associated with a you know, business, aviation business and I had flown a small leg. I've never flown. But do you wish to have a private jet? No, not at all. Why? I don't know what I'm doing. No, I don't know. I mean you know I'm not first of all I'm not that important every minute counts I can easily you know wait for the commercial schedule and the slot and once you get onto these white body airplanes and you are flying business class or you are in a flat bed and people are giving you food what is the need of it?

1:20:39it's private gear what's the best seat money can buy? which is the best experience flight one charlie or one delta on akasa

1:20:56i either take one foxtrot or twelve foxtrot this is my permanent seat yeah for me it's that one foxtrot or twelve foxtrot like it's you're a window seat person oh yes because i have to sleep one side ah okay so that's that's the but apart from that tell me which uh i think you know um is it a is it a q suite or is it like a singapore airline first yeah you know i have i have not flown that you won bhk yeah i i don't i haven't flown that but from whatever i see on instagram that one looks fantastic even that qatar suite where it becomes a double bed or something like that looks looks pretty interesting.

1:21:37So I tried to, I was flying from India to Paris and I thought that I would try to book because it was a very high Instagram. Correct. Let me try this. Okay. Let me see this. It's been nine months in advance booked. Yeah. I'll tell you, nine months in advance the whole flight is booked. Somebody was telling me recently that in this transatlantic meaning Germany is going from the US are going to the UK are going to France are going to the UK A lot of these times people who used to otherwise fly private are beginning to fly these and that's why they are booked out like you know months and months and months and months and it's crazy because a lot of people who fly private are and can afford timings and they have a fixed schedule because of managing office at different times they are now opting out of that and then choosing these flights private general aviation private aviation definitely has a use case study because in india may be ho ga dekhi jaysay log factories banayenge in remote areas ab wahan pe man lije aapka kahi jagah hai jahan pe sirf din mein ek flight ja rahe hai you can't wait for 24 hours to come back and this thing so So, you know, there will be helicopters will happen.

1:23:01Of course, my big bet right now is on these vertical takeoff electric airplanes that we are trying to develop. But of course, those are for urban mobility, right? You know, 40 kilometers. Navi Mumbai to Mumbai. Navi Mumbai to Mumbai. Nariman point to airport. Dubai is investing very heavy on these flying taxis. There'll be lots of places in the world where there are highly congested cities or mountainous areas, you know, remote areas. There'll be a lot of, yeah. That's why this e-plane company is, I mean, we're very excited about that. This is future. Which one is the most profitable route? It's very simple and very hard to answer because there is not one.

1:23:46the simple way to do it is any route where there is very little capacity that becomes profitable. So it could be Delhi Dehradun someday because only two planes are two flights are there lots of people want to fly, fares go up or it could be something where you know so it's really driven by that capacity capacity demand mismatch Okay but tell me I've seen a lot of politicians and like which have connections

1:24:20there are only a few people who are allowed and that is a separate security protocol altogether okay that's a separate security so it's allowed yeah so you don't get that no why no no I'm not that important I see you are a no no I'm not that important I have no even illusion that I'm not important but you have an airline that's your baby I have no such illusion there but only like if anything you know back to the what we had originally started off with you have to actually lead by example to say that you know so that's the last thing you would be doing give me a cost breakdown Delhi to Bombay if a flight is going to be how many rupees will be again it depends on basically give me a rough idea again it depends on like you know it changes month on month you know give me one any good month no it because the fuel price will change the you know the duration will change so it's very a two-hour flight it'll be under 20 lakhs but it could be there could be a lot of variation if if fuel is at 60 dollars a barrel versus fuel is at$85 a barrel.

1:25:37But 20 lakhs will be less. So it makes and if somebody has to book like a full airline Again, that is a complex that's a complex thing because whether you're booking that entire aircraft on the normal schedule and the normal slot or are you actually booking it where slots other flights have to be cancelled then all that will get priced in and then there are a bunch of other permutation companies last two questions you've worked with two stellar people apart from airlines right and I want to know about both of them individually one is Hitesh Agrawal one is Rakej and Nunwalas yes tell me Hitesh Agrawal is what is special in Ritesh Agrawal Hitesh is actually truly special see Hitesh became my boss when he was 24 years old yeah right how did that feel I think it was just you see that's what I was going to come to Ritesh is far wiser and I mean there is a maturity which is far above his age

1:26:55secondly there are many qualities first let me say Ritesh for example has no bad habits he doesn't drink, he doesn't smoke, he doesn't gamble he doesn't like you know he's very detail oriented he's never prepared I know he's never prepared but the most quality and which I hope I don't want to that every 6 months in the future, you will see an evolution that you will see that you will change for the better. This means not to be as a person change.

1:27:44Whether you are understanding of a business, you will see which way you are which way you are which way you are which way you are which way you are which way you are constantly evolving. Every 6 months you will see a different way of it. You can see the evolution of it. Rakesh Jhunjhunwala was an incredible human being over and above. Being a great market man. Okay. But the thing I remember most of the time, is that I remember that I remember about 9 years ago. that the simplicity of the man where his money making was a professional passion but the simple pursuits are that connect with people when he goes down the king, I believe not going to happen.

1:28:52There are thousands of people who had some kind of story that I talked to them and asked them and I helped them. I asked them and I helped them. I asked them and I helped them. That ability to just help people was amazing in them. Market, India believer, big bull I don't have a conversation with you because those people know when the start of the day when I was going to explain I went to explain I never told them that they never told me that I told them how is it going always we were asking very sharp so two-three questions and repeatedly every meeting please focus on the mental health of your employees please make sure you are creating a place where people can I thought this is just the right thing to say consistently every meeting that was the only thing he was interested in other than have you made sure you have budgeted enough don't take an aggressive plan conservative plan that's a different thing that's a good investor but this is a lot and that's simplicity we are talking about something the financial model is so big an excel sheet is presented suddenly he's like Vinay present looking at me he's like will you eat so I'm like yeah he starts talking Vinay is like you finish your thing I'll wait you're talking about I'm serious presentation presentation so just that generosity of heart incredible human being how did he convince how did he do this business I think what did you guys say I think the credit goes to Vinay because Vinay is a big he's a mathematician right so deep planning okay my first interaction with RJ was in Indigo when we were listening to Indigo and I think he had a good experience with me there but it took very little time because simply that this is so big market capacity is not coming this is a good team backed by good investors and the which DNA is the which was DNA is that today is Vishal or Ahmed or Ashma who are now Rare Enterprise is the DNA is the DNA in the It was a joke that he worked for 20 years.

1:32:15They were more than family. We really lucked out. We really lucked out. It's not just a question of money. We really lucked out. And this luck has been 3 times. In Indigo, Rakesh and Rahul have 4 times. Jhoti Sagar was my trust. Rakesh and Rahul were my trust. trust is such a huge element of business. Do you see a pattern? You lucked out with everyone whose name starts with R. Clearly. Clearly. Now there's a new relationship starting with Raj. So you never know. Clearly. Only in this case, like I have more to learn. you learning so definitely but thank you so much for spending such a good time i will still say i've been a fan of your whatever little things i've read about you oh thank you i'm even more fan now even a bigger fan now because i enjoyed it i really enjoyed it many of the first podcasts we have done.

1:33:36We'll keep doing this every year. I'll call you and every time new things will happen. Next time we'll talk only on leadership and culture. Of course. So it'll be interesting to do. And then when your EV planes are ready, we'll talk about that. Of course. Thank you so much. My pleasure. Thank you so much for watching this podcast till the end. Now you have to do three things. First of all subscribe to this channel. Number two, tell us in the comments which guests are. And and which topics you want to make a podcast and you will be better at that and you will be better at that and you will be more value.

1:34:10And number three, this episode must be shared with someone and to share a positive change in life and to listen to this podcast conversation after life will help. Because one conversation is enough to change someone's life. I'll see you next time. Until then, keep figuring out.

1:34:33Thank you.