How Scammers Target You: Dating Apps, Credit Cards & Lottery | Snigdha Poonam | FO474 Raj Shamani

32:22Because all of those things are white and formal. Because the registry that we have in our system for corporate affairs, is their name. So we started to go and meet these directors, and they also tell us what's happening. So we would go and end up in this most bizarre neighborhoods, residential in Peet Vihar and other places in Delhi. And we've gone to those people's houses and we've asked them, if you're an Indian director of this company, this Chinese company, you know what they do? And they would say, we don't know, we were told that we'll get 10 ,000 every month. And how does it have a business, a shop, etc.

33:00So they would like randomly sort of approach people and say, you're going to be our director. So the money aspects was, those scams, the romance and all were interesting. But like how the Chinese were also gaming our financial systems was also an interesting story. Really? So you didn't know the directors? Yes, the directors didn't know. How much money do they make? How much money will they make in that time in the scam romance? The thing about these particular scams which I call transnational in that you don't know that you don't know that the one is sitting here that it's worth there. and finally when it was busted after the crash of the gang so when the enforcement director started to see these things so both companies were left with both and I was talking very casually about the people who were going to go and open and talk to me because

33:50this is not like they have committed any murder or anything so they would also talk with me but the geopolitics changed everything so they were arrested, they went to jail and their bosses the Chinese man and the Indian director went to Hyderabad I even went to meet them in Hyderabad so they were my main sources so the Chinese director also got in India there and there was not immunity in China diplomatic relations had broken down and he's in a jail in Hyderabad they're feeding him somewhere so he was he was just saying he communicated through someone that he's that you know they need to feed him something that he can eat you know Gurgaon is a of the Politian city where they had there were so many Chinese supermarkets and hot pot stores and all so then yeah so then the trial then took so long but the you know but the fact is that when the ED started looking at this then they were saying that 4 ,000 crores came out from India in the last few years in the past few years in the cameramen the cameramen the same as the apps were running when they started everything started then everyone did all the people were doing 4 ,000 crores crazy okay and what happened

35:05Jobless. This is the precarity of this scam market. It's a scam that changes people's lives. And I see this from one scam to the other. Whether it's in Jamtada, whether it's in Asam, whether it's in Tamil Nadu. It's a scam that comes from a new thing. I think when it comes to cashback, I saw like entire sort of economy of places changing. all people are getting so much money and say that you know one of them tells me 10 ,000 million in one day what a big deal is like I'm talking about the amount of effort I'm getting I'll make it digital scams cannot work without private data leak it's a maximum black market so you just can buy a database for 5 ,000 rupees something like that and what can I do if a data scam I got a data I got my number, I got a card, I got a address what can I do?

36:07I can do a lot in a very simple way if you have a phone that you have in your customs or you have got something that you have got if you just say your data number or your address

36:29So that is where it starts. But also, you know, they use Aadhaar in like other ways. They sometimes, they make a fake account using your private information. Sometimes e-commerce, whatever sites with your name, they make something. And then Aadhaar gets a SIM card in your name. SIM card is very common. Yeah, then I said to them, they were scammers that people would collect my job. Because then I can also open bank accounts. So yes, aadhar is very important. This is a murky zone. Those who are legit working, those who are the employees, they also leak our data, the credit card, which all customers have.

37:17I mean, he might not think of himself as scamster, but he has all the data leaked away. He has all the people who have taken our credit card. So data is the oil in this economy. And whatever people do data leak, they are also part of it. So they don't know how to buy this scam? They don't know how to use it. When I got a data broker, I told them to tell me whatever data is, because they call me the parents, they call me the parents, that I will get admission to your child. So I asked who I was at the data. which has leaked some of the college has leaked some of the government office has leaked some of the bank has leaked they have all the idea that they can misuse that they can get so they can get they are collecting our data and they are collecting and they are collecting who do it?

38:09who do it? banks all of them you can take for granted they do it all of the SIM operating all of the employees database merchants online e-commerce merchants they send our data so it's very easy to say flip card Amazon type yes so the phone you have to do it you have to do it you have to do it maximum people think we had to do it so we have to do it delivery companies delivery companies merchants bank credit card the whole data the whole data the whole data you have to do it you have to do it home loan like you have to do it before you have to your data leaked so whatever and these things it's not even you have to go to the dark web to find these I just went online like proper Google search and I have that website I just chose like say Amazon KHNI customers it's a whole Excel sheet it's a name of your name what it bought first what it purchased what it bought in a month what it bought in a month it's not that it's a granular item based it's a brand new shoes it's a purchasing power and where it's location very important that's wild that's wild okay coming back to this dating romance scam yes then second was you said fake insurance scam fake insurance yeah or let's say fake life insurance fake life insurance kya hota hi so this was a hota ka hai kaha par hota hai kya haan se start yeh hota bohat jaga hai okay but I reported this story.

39:50Me and a friend and colleague of mine, Sadiq, we reported this story from a rural pocket in Assam. Okay. Assam. Assam. Gohatti's not far away from a two hours. It's a road from What is the name of the name? Borpetta. It's a district, but like in Chamthara, it's a district. The economy is very very unhealthy. So, once a town comes to know that it's very good and it's full of system. so it expands very quickly so what is like first a village scam then becomes a district scam then becomes a regional scam so like one layer after the other and this starts from the towns it starts from one town where the man dies in the town there is no knowledge and knowledge that's the idea that you don't register your death because when someone's death you have to make a death certificate and like when we get born then our birth is registered so then we officially become a part of the paperwork death once you die it closes that chapter on paperwork as well but here it's not registered instead As I said, some of the things that I have said, he is talking to his wife's wife and he is taking life insurance for his name.

41:25And not from one company. Every four or five big companies. Anyone that you can think of, Tata, Viva, Kotak, even like the government, Jeevan Jyoti Bima, he gives probably 2 ,000 ,000 ,000 Tata or Kota you will give 25 ,000 ,000 ,000 which is the whole signature you have to give some health certificate that is all document fabricate system in the city and it has been life insurance now the city is so remote in some cities we didn't know that there were many companies and investigators didn't send to the people so in 2-3 months then the man now Now, who has received insurance, who has received insurance, has not been able to die.

42:13The man who has already gone to the world. So, now, I don't wait for 2-3 months. I have been able to declare death. Now, that is registered at every level. Before, it's become a death certificate on the level of the city. Like that doctor has a primary health care system. is a very important certificate. So, the cause of death is not written. The doctor said how did the man die? He died. He was going to get a fish in the village. He died. He died. But he wrote the cause of death that malaria was taken. He signed it. dya aapna. Then, Anganwadim may be kisina sign kardiyya. Then, joh, mukhiyah hota isko death certificate pere sign kardiyya hosne kardiyya kisiko kisiko korruption ka infrastructure to hai amishar se use hota raha hai to doctor ko bhi paise mil hai jhuta lik nai kari brok kari kari kari kari kari kari kari

43:22kari We have to open a bank account for the name of the wife. The first bank account was not. We have to take a signature with the wife. And we have to keep the ATM in our own account. We will send the money to Aviva or Tata. We will come to the wife's account. And then we will take the fake signature with her. We will take the cut to everyone. Sometimes we don't give up front. We say that when it comes, we will take the checkbook. We will take the wife's signature and get the cut. So, one of the cases. this um think uh early 2010s may start with a or he bought he successful for reasons that my you know um neither sadhik or i could imagine key it's like if you know of one story like this you think you know this is the craziest thing that you've heard about but then we started to see key to gaun ke level pe um haram gaun be jate so that's the story that people are dying and they are dying so that their knowledge could be saved if there was proper health care you know if they were these local hospitals weren't so crowded and weren't like so under resourced so like people are dying in the most random circumstances someone goes on electricity and goes on he cannot be there's no hospital now by.

44:47So, we started seeing these cases everywhere. Bike accidents are so bad. But it's real. It's real death. Yes, it's real. But it's in avoidable circumstances. And some people are natural. But in old age, there's no insurance to take. So, mostly we're talking about deaths that were in some sense that cancer and so on. Or avoidably, it's like it's possible to save. Or if things were a little more secure. they wouldn't have died. And they have to move quick. So, this man died now. So, you have to make a deal. Mostly to the wife, but also maybe wife will not be your mother. Which will be next of kin.

45:36And more and more, like the network also, because when a time, when a death happens,

45:52So again, like what I call the crooks economy, like expands and expands and uses the same system of corruption. So this, and this level is that every death is not the same. And you can't show anyone like this. can't tell anyone, I don't think I gave her. I don't think I gave her wife. She didn't tell her wife. She didn't impersonate her. She didn't give her two million dollars. So that's also true. And then it also happens that investigators come here. There is no remote account. Now the investigator can get a bribe. I go to the investigator and say that the investigator came and I have three.

46:35They have to send me to Aviva. So the investigator called me and they knew that the man died before. Because if you go to the village you know that you know that you have to get so little villages. And there are so many jealousies. So the investigator came and got to know. So they said you meet me here. You have to get to the Talaab. So they go to the village. So they said that you know what you have done. So they said that you have 25 lakhs. Now tell me. So investigators then turn the tables. So they say that 23 ,000 ,000 are our 2 ,000 ,000 are our. So that's what literally happened in that case.

47:17So like for each scam, I saw that different negotiation, different person of power. Yeah, different sort of hierarchy of power and who got to benefit. Kisime wife kumbile hain, kisime wife sehi scam ho gaya hain, kisime investigator hain, kisime ye ho gaya hain ki

47:38man is gone to the hospital, dead body is there, his post-mortem has also been done. The first one is the man's dead. Then the people of the post-mortem have to corruption at the hospital level. The post-mortem, then the man is dead. It's so complex. The man is dead. He's not injured. He goes to the hospital and he's dead. Then the post-mortem happens. Now the whole record has it. How do you erase?

48:28So, for me, it's always more interesting to see how the larger economy works rather than that the scamsters will fix it and how did you think how did you do it how did you feel because it's one person but that's not how these scams work and so and then things get to a level where we even saw scams where nobody needed to die because nobody was born in that like the person has not been but they have just invented a person that has made his whole life journey that passport center from someone's passport took a passport and the principal showed their attendance in school and then the person reaches the age of 25 this person who has never existed this person has never existed because see because even this someone dying and then you trying to ensure that person it's complicated so what if we just make it simpler and we say that there is no person but we make up that person because it was the purpose of documents so take a passport to someone, show a school detainance to someone to someone to someone to someone but before the insurance the tests are blood tests, body tests all that it doesn't happen in some scams you have some health certificates that's all the whole scam was in fabrication so one of the reasons that I really like this scam two reasons A the ingenuity that they fabricate everything.

50:04So, the health report will also be made by a local clinic from a doctor. Yeah. Is it fit? Is it fit? Yeah. And the other thing is, nobody, there are, insurance companies are the victim. But like, you know, like in other scams, you can easily see that the scamsters are somewhat related so you have to take into account the fact that they have destroyed someone's life. But here it wasn't so painful. On the other side, you have these companies who are very wealthy, who also sometimes, even if the person's claim is genuine, they'd also sometimes, you know, have to think of profits, their own profits.

50:47So this is the way that they would also think. But largely, largely they kind of thought of this as a scam in which nobody gets hurt. so so I asked this person my colleague and I we were he says that he said that he didn't have I had to make him but insurance companies then area not mark that they have more than this area so we will not approve insurance there isn't it? Yeah, so they did make it a negative pin code so yeah in that sense that it kind of like had its really good days and they had a little effect on but then what happens is that like with Jamtara Jamtara there were many raids so that area was like that police so then all these scams what I call homespun scams they start to spread so that area and then like that it's been a negative pin code so the districts are far from the villages in Assam people have to do there so there there's no negative pin code that's what we call the same thing I saw in Jamtara and this is an area that I'm from I grew up in very close to Jamthara in a place called Devgarh.

52:27So, when I go to Jamthara to report the whole scene of Devgarh shifts. So, my parents are saying that now all of them are here and then in scam stores are telling me that Jamthara means there are more action. There are more action and there are legends but maximum the Delhi cyber crime department is there. They make a database of bank accounts where the money is deposited they don't call it a database they call it kind of like a map and they actually show me on the map that around bank accounts there are a lot of deposits and this guy has no idea where I'm from because he thinks I'm a journalist in Delhi so he says this place is Devgar have you heard of it and I say it's where I grew up so that's where the Jamtara story begins because it's not Jamtara actually where I grew up is now the hub but like maybe in another year it'll be Dumka and Parkour all of these places are adjacent and then so also these scams also understand that if there are a lot of notorious that happens then it will spread it will shift it will go the center of gravity what they call it but these are so many people who become a part are they proud about it some are some are people don't see that you're a four you're a scam or no they give them more respect that you have a car

54:21It's complex. and almost respected at the local level they dropped the choice so this guy was with me he was showing me around he would just stop someone and say this is cyber or his friend is cyber or his wife is in a cyber so that also showed you how the societal acceptance works and even the police station at the police station they would take pride in it they were telling me that our children have been scammed our children have been chief ministers MP, MLA so there is a section of society that does take pride in that why are they happy that we have been so big star that we have been scammed because these are also places where you know these are also some of the poorest districts of India education is very low I get that the individual why are you proud proud of you.

55:23Because you're fun for it. And I've done it and it's ego and it's pride and a bunch of things that he's getting recognition. But the police is why proud of you? But the police is the case of the city. He's just telling me his personal feeling. Perhaps he might not tell you the same thing but I'm also from Jharkand. So maybe he felt like it's something that even I might celebrate. And everyone did. Even the Mukhyas and everyone. Like there is the MLA of the area I used to make speeches saying if our country is so angry then it should be a problem instead of yeah it went viral later he said that I wasn't there but will they give money?

56:07yes they are no wonder and who was the biggest beneficiary? scam lots? scam lots scam lots

56:23yeah what was their demeanor personality they think of themselves as startup founders yeah job creators very sort of visionaries they were meeting people in the morning and they were telling Bill Gates some of them Coates Tom Tim Cook not Tim Cook sorry Steve Jobs Steve Jobs quotes in offices and they were there you know they're motivating these people inspiring these people to really work hard and which Indian dream which obviously you have also written about that it was Indian dream but it was a dark aspect that you can achieve this and the idea was the same that if you can just forget that some other line you know what I call the other end of the line people are also.

57:20If you forget that you are hurting them, then this is also a path. And a lot of these people who worked for these cam lords used to feel inspired looking at them because their lifestyle was also from you. They would spend a lot of time in the US, travel, parties, throw lots of parties and they would allow their employees to come and see what is possible. so that they do more work they will forget that they will scam and how much typically they would make so in these call centers let's say they the biggest ones would have as many as 500 employees 500 even leave it, 200 even have average local government and every target it's less than that you have to be on the phone but But if someone got a buck in America, then you sell some fake security software.

58:23So,$500 is a minimum. So, they would then... Almost. Almost. So, they would also... They could show me on the computer because everything was logged in very sort of systematically. You could see how each one, who has data, is how much the company has happened. Now, you know, in some places like in Southeast Asia where I also went in Cambodia, where Indians traffic, they have a Chinese bell in these offices, in these camp floors. And every time there is someone who invests in their fake crypto exchanges, USA, people do more. Whatever it is, half a million dollars or something, they ring that bell, the Chinese bell.

59:16So the whole office gets pressure to do it. Now we have to do it. Then everyone will be in the telegram and send them to them. How would they send you these screenshots? It's crazy. So these people, they don't think themselves, they don't think of themselves as criminals. No. They think of themselves as entrepreneur of a broken system. Yeah. Some of them do understand what they're doing and they feel very uncomfortable. No, the entrepreneurs won't feel. No, entrepreneurs, the scam lords, no, they, scam lords would be. Job creators. Visionaries. Scam lords would be like, oh, there's a loophole and we're making money out of it.

59:59Yeah. Yeah, they see a market. Biggest scam lords today, wherever they are in the world, including India, China, Everyone wants to target people in America. Why? One of America is more money. More money. One of them is that a middle class person can get on the phone. Lower middle class person can get on the phone. His lifestyle, his bank, his middle class can't imagine. even can do it. So, this idea was very clear on their mind that global inequality is enough. You know, like an average person in America versus an average person in like a middle class person in India. So, everyone wants to target that because there is conversion and scams too.

1:00:51How many times you will phone in the day. How many times you are getting in the day. Because in the system it is very log-in. That's not a scam. That is a very sort of honest and brutal document. And so so so so so so so so so so

1:01:34So they would think of that as some kind of a justification. Colonization, global inequality, globalization. That we are going to do like that. And they would put these ideas and brainwash themselves? Yeah, they would. Because even with these, you know, the fraud factories that I talk about in the Southeast Asia, there is a WhatsApp group in that. They send these ideas. Because brainwash is a very important aspect of this. So they think that something simple as if you think small, you'll be small. Now I'm going to say what I'm saying. Normal conversation strategy is running. That you've created so much in this account.

1:02:19You've created so much. In the future, there's a motivation. When you go home, do you want to be taken seriously or do you want to be just lying in the bottom? They know where people come from. They have human traffic. They have to take them to the job. But they know that people go from villages in India, in Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Uganda, Ethiopia, they come from everywhere. Mostly poor nations across Asia and Africa. So they knew that if they were to say that there's one chance to have them. So, it's also that the mind of the person who will run away from the money. Explain to me this pig butchering scam.

1:03:13Why do you say pig butchering? I've told you earlier that this is a global transnational scam empire. Chinese people run it. And they hire, I should say, like unemployed people from across low income. countries. So, Asia, Africa, there is a very big labor pool. India is, even within that landscape, India is a huge resource for them. Because we have so many people, first of all. If we think that hundreds of thousands or even, if I say one million, it would be a very modest estimate. Yeah.

1:03:58Millions. Millions. I say that there are people who will go out of a job later and go out of the country. 10 ,000 ,000 people. They are getting a salary outside, getting a salary, saying that your accommodation is free. Your meals are free. You can buy your home. Every person will see you later and give a flight ticket. These people go to Thailand or Cambodia. so they are landing either in Bangkok or they are landing in Phnom Penh once they land in these countries the whole thing changes the moment in the land that's where the the sort of actual now they have sort of and you know enter a very criminal system in which no one is trying to or pretending to be a visionary or like no one's saying that we're legal or legal people come to pick you up who are not even talking to you they're wearing black mask and some people come to wear a tinted car and you're taking the airport and they take it you're leaving the country for the first time, you have a backpack and a suitcase and you have this job letter.

1:05:30You're asking them where to go. He's not able to speak English too. He's in the South East Station. And he just drives you from the capital. Whether you're in Phnom Penh, Cambodia, or Thailand. It's a 3-4 hours of the journey. You'll be able to stop in McDonald's. You'll reach what they call the scam compounds. Like we say, compound where there are 20-25 buildings and we say it there are 20-25 scam centers every center is multi-story tower 20-25 floors and there are 20-25 buildings and every floor are different scam and there are a system of hostel now Indians have gone here or where they have gone Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Uganda, Ethiopia Malaysia, Philippines Every place people come and get their own floor.

1:06:25They have given their own room. They have given their name. Like I had a name, I didn't have a name. But I get the name there. I got a Philip, I got a Daniel. There are all Chinese managers. They are working on human traffic. What are our people in our country? Human traffic illegally? Or are they going to get in the job case? Yeah, they call the job case. They call human trafficking. They start from fake jobs. And they go there and they take their passport. So then they become slaves of these scam lords. And then they find out that they bought them. The scam center, the scam lord, will give you a recruiter to every person.

1:07:19$8 ,000 per person. $1 ,000. $7 ,800. Yes. It was sold from it. So, if it's the money or it's the money, you can go abroad. Some scenarios. If you don't have that money, then you have to work. So, it's not like that, I've talked about scams in Asa, that it's been a problem with your daughter, or someone with your friend. with your line manager and he tells you that you have to scam for this. You have to give a contract for signing. He has to take a passport. He has to take a phone. He has to give a phone. He has to take a tape. You cannot record anything. Every morning and every evening he has to check a phone.

1:08:05He has to make a video. He has to make a audio. Then he has to get his room number. He has to get his shift. He has to get his bill times. He has to get 2-3 hours. people is getting a student. Then the scam continues to go. My source in Cambodia hables go. My больше control is gone.

1:08:34My line manager says that you can lower one account for now on Instagram. This Russo girl has more dollar account. Ukrainian influencers hacked because it was a public account. Then the person of Karnataka became a Russian influencer and he started messaging to middle age, 40, 45, 50-year-old people in Australia, Canada, etc. Then he started to take him on WhatsApp. Then he got a script in the morning, evening, evening, with emojis. The romantic use is a psychologist. or just where I hire so I have to get someone to fall in love with you so it's not just that I'm talking about romance so they'll also talk about life and dogs and they'll also say that I don't answer to your story or someone will always be available sometimes they'll say that I was with my aunt or I was with my friends and then ultimately they you start to believe that you have a relationship and then they say that now that we have a relationship I want to spend the rest of my life with you so I was I wanted to be comfortable like that everyone wants to show that we will get and they keep showing they keep showing no it happens on both sides sometimes they also hire these white women sometimes they come to a video sometimes it's also you're talking to an actual woman and the whole premise is they tell you I have invested in cryptocurrency in this particular exchange and I have so much benefit, I have so much returns I can send you a link I can explain the whole system to you and you know once we have a certain amount of like saving as a couple then let's both retire and then just go to go travel the world this is a script that he was following

1:10:55sometimes they also try to be a man so like this woman is in the US and she's lonely she's 50 years old she's going to college so he first will say that you just convert into cryptocurrency and you put this cryptocurrency exchange in exchange which are running in Cambodia and so they still invest and they are running fake exchanges that they get the advantage of the advantage they give us but the whole system is fake because they have such advanced technology technical experts working for them. So, they took it out. It took 50 ,000 to it. And they took it out. And you know, this is a point at which a lot of us actually go back.

1:11:45It's a time to see. And then that's when they, you know, start to invest more and more amount. And then when it's 1 million, they give it a bell. Then the money, they withdraw all the money and which comes to the... They block it there. news. Yes, it comes to their cryptocurrency. And finally, it's coming to the people who run these scam centers who are the second nexus of crime, politics, business in Cambodia, in Thailand, but mostly sort of. This is proper scam slavery. This is scam slavery. And this is also like a system that is truly anonymous, that is so organized that if you want to know if you work for your Chinese line managers group you will not see your Chinese because you know they are working like you know Cambodia at the time that I was there Cambodian Prime Minister's very close relatives were running some of these compounds and then they were taking funding from gambling mafia in China and they would have like political connections in like say they would start up these centers in Myanmar that military commander

1:13:02So for like someone, a young person from India and Sri Lanka to show up and start working for these, like, I'm not saying they are not making money. They are making money. But like compare that to the amount of money that they're, you know, coming through these cryptocurrency exchanges into the scam lords pockets. They must be making millions and billions probably. Millions and millions and to answer your first question, it's called pig butchering because it's a Chinese scam and China has a system, a ritual, pig fattening.

1:14:04What's your take on this? I'll ask you a last question.

1:14:10this system problem is that there is so unemployment and inequality and this is problem of few bad players who lure people who is the biggest problem I know but choose one if you had to choose I would say one because the second depends on the first because you know if you don't have so many people who face a situation where they start to think that this is the only way. What I say is a deception. We know what happens when deception becomes a way of life. And deception is a mild way of putting it, but which means that you have really a large segment of people for whom defrauding someone is the only way that they can earn a salary or they can rise up the ladder, they can gain influence.

1:15:04But if, so I'm assuming that these people who would go do these scams mostly people don't feel like a job or they'll be a bit of a worry right they go to this but then they would scam Americans and Indians and other people their manipulation skills negotiation skills conversation skills English speaking skills so if they have these many skills and they're confident also then they get jobs why do you get these skills these scam these companies these companies these companies these companies develop both are true I would say that even to begin with we have a labor pool that is lucrative many people in India are educated this school college many people speak basic English technically fluent mobile phone Like many Indians go to here and they say, type and tell me a message.

1:16:10It's not that they hire me. Indians were passing these tests. Traffic is also taking a test in the first day. Typing, English etc. But even so, then, you know, you put it the skills you learn to learn the technical stuff phishing hacking even understanding this whole crypto landscape it's got to a point where I just say that it's a skill at which we excel if you don't mind the dark aspect we've taken this skill to a level where it's an art form so who wouldn't want to hire someone who's been like trained at such a level. So it is both. They do have some talent to begin with. But then they also get very skilled at many things that just like make you, you know, make you a valuable sort of person in the labor market.

1:17:15But it's just that as one of them tells me, he's a job in Manaras, maybe he's a salesman, but he's going to go to his job and then he goes to the job letter and he goes to the Kambodhia but he tells me I will go back and he doesn't have that job and I don't have another job and then there is something else that you are not considering that he is also in his mind that if the job is coming and the job is getting so how much will he get so they are also clever and once you have worked in this economy for 2-3 months you start to see how much money can they so people can come back rate is very low they don't want to come back because this will be lost because it will be lost so it doesn't get anything you're right we'll apply so much if there are so many advanced level communication technical skills digital skills it can be I mean the job economy is not at a great place so I can't say that that it will get a job but it doesn't matter that many people come and try after that they get used to it they are like they are like they are like they are like they are like yeah they are like they are like more and more more yeah more than they are they will start themselves but no it is it is it is it is it is it is would you say India only in North or South no there are some scams in North because of the North-South inequality and in fact it is also very true that North India scams are targeted in South that is also people's awareness that that we have to target in Hyderabad, Tamil Nadu, but these transnational global scams in their hearts, there are so much money that everyone goes to it.

1:18:59Like the pig butchering that I have seen in Cambodia, I have got a lot of South Indians. Kerala, Tamil Nadu, and now my source was from Karnataka. Because their English is good and their IT skills are good. So, this is one where I could not see a North-South divide. and what is the scam land in south in the south I describe one in like rural Tamil Nadu that's the scam land in Kumbakonam but in that area there are a lot of Ponzi schemes okay area is going to go to Ponzi scheme yes when I said it was a very big Ponzi scheme helicopter brothers helicopter helicopter brothers they were two brothers helicopter brothers so the guys who ran the ponzi scheme they were two brothers scam lots they were Tamil Brahmins they hired a helicopter just to impress everyone they have a helicopter and they were poor and then they took a helicopter yes so it was a journey and to say that they were born and then there was a gap and how did every name come?

1:20:14Five books from 10 to 15 years, nobody used to see no then they were coming. I used to headline stories, we were in England as someone told us Come to die. They Key and lay off us marketing. We researched business development and people already imagine that Malaysia turned out to check that we went with a business start we developed a real-state and all such tales made he made the whole city his whole town and bought everything and then they ran away. The most important thing is that you invest in your money, but we will go abroad. Yes, we will go abroad. Our network is a very big network on gold basis.

1:20:52In Tamil Nadu, South India, there is so much crazy gold. So, if you give them money, if you give them 20 ,000 dollars, then you give them gold coins. There are so many people for it. They have a lot of trust. They have a lot of gold.

1:21:12So that's where I am. So they collected all the money. They collected all the money. Everyone a gold coin in return. And then they ran away with all the money. And people were looking at gold. They would fly the helicopter over the town. They would shower rose petals from the helicopter. So I've also showed through that chapter that victims also it's not so innocent or noble they have greed they also need to make money and make money because when I go I say that I can invest in Reliance but I was going to make more money so everyone takes the most richest industry list everyone has given it so we are so that's why like I just say that we are all in it our greed also plays a part but then gold coin I'm not able to understand this who gets a gold coin it's just like an investment that they made okay gold coin is just return that this is your guarantee no it's just a gift from me because you invested with me just a gesture and that itself and real gold coin and everyone would get one and then anyone who got it would just like go and tell everyone this is a gold coin if you have kept so much gold

1:22:58It's crazy man. It's insane. thank you so much though thank you

1:23:14so have you been scammed ever? not yet so one of the lines with which I begin the book begins one thing that has really benefited me is that I always take calls from unknown numbers we are the opposite Thank you so much for watching this episode until the end. Now, you have to do three things. First of all, subscribe to this channel because as much as you subscribe will be better and valuable guests we will get you for your time. Number two, tell us about comments what you like and what bad so that we will repeat mistakes and which guests you want to watch back to our podcast so that we will take them and give you more value.

1:23:59And number three, this episode with someone else to share this episode because one conversation can change someone's life. I'll see you next time. Until then, keep figuring out.