How to Build a Big Brand: Gen Z, Packaging & Influencer Marketing | Suyash Saraf | FO494 Raj Shamani

0:00One or two things, where you think it will become a brand. I think that in India, there are at least 10 ,000 crore brand in India. It's only BPC. Today we are with Suyash Saraf, founder and CEO of Dot and Key Skincare and Hyper Scale Ventures. How do you decide the right price of Indian customer? For an Indian consumer, a product is solid. You can have a premium command. In this episode, we will talk about marketing, brand building and some powerful insights जो आपको नेक्स्ट हंडरेड करोड का बनाने में हल्प कर सकते हैं अवड बागी पचार मिडाड के बैड बागी पर फ्रेंड लागी सेकंड आपना जब सोचल मीडिया पिज बनाओगे आप उसे पोस्ट करना शुरू करें of the brand, उस में कुछ परफॉरमन्स मर्केटिंग कर ढ़ दीजे, आपका बागी 50 उड़ाद वहीं से आजाएगा.

0:46What's the ROI for you on premium packaging? बेनेफित ओपा? अँट जादा ओपॉर। You look like a Shahrukh Khan, every other brand looks like a common man. People choose you over everyone else. What's your process? To find a differentiated insight. Marketplaces, I am reading my reviews, I am reading competition reviews, 明 स्क्राइब है

1:32मason with influencers and running performance ads on that really works. And spending enough budget is very important to really see an impact. ये बड़ी ब्राइंड क्या देखती है छोटे start-ups में? विच मेक्स अस्मॉल ब्राइंड अक्षिशिशन रेडी. आज का एपिसोड स्टार्ट करने से पहले, मेरी आप लोगों से एक request है. हमारा goal है कि एक Indian podcast को global level पर लेके जाना and as of today हमें वहां पहुचने के लिए 20.8 million subscribers चाहिए तो अगर हमारे channel ने आपको थोड़ी भी value प्रोवाइड करें तो please subscribe करें बिलकुल free है, it costs you nothing बट हमारे लिए बहुत mean करता है और return में हम promise करते हैं कि हम आपके लिए most valuable conversations लाते रहेंगे every single time और इस एपिसोड के audio experience को सुनने के लिए आप हमें Spotify पर follow कर सकते हैं

2:28Okay, let's make the podcast in a way कि अगर somebody who is young right now and want to start a brand Okay, build a brand scale a brand and then sell a brand ठीक है उसको पूरा जोर्नी गना है तरह थे उसाब भी मेत आपेर बारबहने, याँ मेसं पामरू कökरें नियुक मादो लेक्तित कर दिए हर आपट जाय मैं next 5-7 साल में at least 20 ,000 क्रोड के ब्रैंड आने वाले है खाली BPC में fundamentally consumers इंडिया में बहुत ही underserved है because typically पहले बहुत global ब्रैंड रहते थे इंडिया में जो MNC आते थे जो पहुत generic products इंडिया में हमेशा बनाएं and quality हमेशा ब्रॉड में better होता था इंडिया में आवरेज होती थी तो हमारा reason of starting dotting की वही था कि insight हमारा बहुत simple था कि quality difference था तो अनिशा हमेशा जब abroad जाती थी तो काफी skincare products लेके आती थी बिकॉस उसे लगता था कि Indian skincare एफेक्टिव नहीं है high quality नहीं है and deliver नहीं करता जो benefit जब जाती थी लगता था हाई क्वालिटी है, बहुत एफेक्टिव है, बहुत एक्स्पेंसिव होती भी, और अक्सिबिलिटी इतना बड़ा प्रॉब्लम होता है, सब अबरॉड नहीं जाते हैं इंडिया में, and Indian skin kit requirement बहुत अलग होता है Indian weather अलग है food अलग है and indian skin kो Indian ही product चाहिए जो उनिका problem स्गBut Bram we remember that our way Indian brand is not box इंडल्वें इंडेंट की be North High in experience में digital sustainable wannaat Teleportelles Indian consumer का problem solve perfectly that's why that's why we start by Doughton we identify the missing dots

4:44तो इंटायर आइडिया था कि हमें अच्छ प्रोडक्त बनाना है जो इफेक्टिव है अच्छ प्रोड़क बनाने की छकर में एक रॉड्ट बनाँ बन लिया है अब और अब तो बहुत सारे हो गहे और इस कैकरी में और बाकी कुछ पेस I think in beauty and personal care I am talking about beauty and personal care is a big category it is divided in 4 key parts okay, both hair care, face care, body care and color cosmetics and fragrances okay Doughton is a face care brand which identifies two categories which is moisturizers and sunscreen and it is effectively solved करते हैं, but certain categories like body care, वो हमेशा बहुत mass market products successful ते India में, अब Indian consumer जा गरी है so they want more premium products, उनको effective products ते ही है, hair का skinification moment चल रहा है अब ही, जहापे generic products से अब local specific products ते हैं, जो बहुत effective हो, so consumer का जैसे demand and need भड़ता है, वहाँ पे spaces बनती तो मेरे साब से every seven years एक नया category में एक नया market leader आ सकता है because consumer का need change होती है and उनका relevance change होता है and psychological need change होता है जो एक brand solve कर सकता है तो मुझे लगता है कि BPC में ये चीज़ बहुत effectively हो सकता है because काफी सारे categories है second, बहुत high gross margin businesses है BPC के, मालब 70-75 % gross margin है तो ब्रांच के पास हाई मार्करिंग बजेट होता है जिसके कारें बहुत इफेक्टिवली वो एडुकेट कर सकते है अपने प्रोड़क के बारे में और मार्केट क्रियेशन कर सकते हैं इंडिया था कंजूम्शन एकॉनमी इस लाक अन्यन propensity to pay for the product में change होता है so मुझे strongly लगता है कि अगर आप एक specific demographic को चूज करिये specific geography को चूज करिये and specific propensity to pay चूज करिये तो आप एक बहुत strong brand बना सकते है आपको बनाना हो तो अभी at this point तो कैसे करोगे?

7:10किसको चूज करोगे? क्या बनाओगे? So, I definitely make a hackay. Okay. I make a gen Z for Gen Z, which is very very positive as a brand, but really problem solving. So that consumers have the first attraction by exceptional packaging, and in the inside, a very effective product, which is able to build repeat. Today, hackay brands are a lot. A lot. But exciting brands, which can be highly engaged to the audience, are not there. तो यह फ्रम कॉलकाता इसका काफी मिसकंसेप्शिंप्शिंप्शिंज भी है बताओ क्या सी मैं दॉटन की कार्ण में बिल्ट किया और फिल दाइब नॉट बिल्ट टॉन की ने अधर सिटी इन इंडिया स्टार्ट अप से तो आप लोग और करी दियो कालकटा को बहुत पहले मुझे लगता है कि वो एक स्टार्ट अप स्ट्रॉंग रिक्वायर एक सेहर में उसको वापस मैप में डालने में वी फेल्ट ताट कालकटा में बहुत हंगरी motivated और young individuals है जो जिसको purpose दिखाने से वो बहुत कुछ उखाड सकते है so हम दॉटन की वह यह चीज़ बहुत early realize किये और हम यह young hungry folks को nurture किये विन दॉग एक 200 लोग का team बनाए हमारा thesis बहुत simple था कि Silicon Valley भी एक पहला startup से चालू हुआ वो team को नउचर किये, वो टीम को ट्रें किये और तीम को ठ्रें करने से आप सिलिक्स वाली आफ्टर तर्टी, पुर्टी, फिफ्टी यॉर्स बिल्ड कर पाए सो आम सुझे एक। कालकटा में जो 200 लोग का टीम है जिसको अपने ट्रें किये, बिल्ड किये वो दस ओर start-up चालू करेंगे कालकरा में and वो ecosystem बिल्ट होना चालू हो जाएगा and कालकरा has the capability it has the hunger and it has the talent to build very very powerful businesses out of the city and I think Dautant is a testament to it what's tell me one big disadvantage and one advantage for a startup like yours I think the biggest disadvantage was talent because we couldn't find trained talent like in other cities where ecosystem already exists you have to push from other companies or pre-trained people hire and quickly build but in Calcara there is no one available so you have to say younger, hungrier folks who are in Calcara you can show purpose to build homegrown talent बिल्ट सकते हो, जो आपका skill set for your business वो बहुत strong हो जाता है and because आप परपस देते हो, जिनके आप लाइफ में कम परपस रहता है उनका delivery बहुत लंबा होता है and उनका attrition बहुत लो होता है so I think that is a very very big weakness which gets converted to a very very big strength for the city and I think Kalkara as a city has great institutions and colleges which really help fuel these team members I think the biggest advantage of Kalkara is that lower attrition rate that in other cities in other cities I feel my friends tell me that they have a 30-35-40 % attrition rate whereas in Kalkara it's much lower if you give them purpose interesting but yeah like every every smaller city Kolkata is not small but not comparing with the top 4 top 4 or 5 जिदर businesses and startups similar type के कम है वहाँ पे ये अड़ांटेश तो है people don't leave very easily that's a big big advantage क्योंकि यादा ओप्शन नहीं है जो hyper fast growing scaling companies हों के लिए एक वर अड़ांटेश है कालका का कि हम बहुत external noise isolated रहते हैं तो मैं अपना जो startup founder friend से बात करता हूँ जो बंबे के डेली के तो उनका बहुत VC pressure रहता है कोई एक सब्सक्राइब जाना है तो business में चुआर नहीं हो offline चले गए because pressure है इतना noise है offline का and serenly देख रहे हैं कि 20-30-30 का stock वापस आरहा है, बिकोज इतना नॉइज है, या इतना नॉइज के काई आप अपना खुद का उपिनियन फॉर्म नहीं कर सकते हैं, आप एक्स्टरेन उपिनियन से बहुत जादा इंफ्लूएंस हो जाते हो, because हम कालक्रा में बनाएं and वो एक isolated ecosystem था from the rest of the country हम बहुत fundamentally correct first principle consumer first decision ले पाएं जिसके कारण हम काली 1 crore 1 crore personal investment से 1 6 ,000 crore का business बिल्ड कर पाएं true we'll talk about this कैसे एक से छह है सब एक एक mental model पे बात करते हैं but we were talking about a framework or checklist किसी category में एंटर करने से पहले क्या checklist होना चाहिए tell me कैसे एक founder distinguish कर सकता है कि कौन सी category है वो genuinely उसमें gap बाकी है कि वो completely cluttered है क्योंकि किसी -किसी बहार से किसी -किसी founder को देखेगा कि beauty तो बहुत cluttered है but किसी founder इस जनुमिनली गप है how do you distinguish, कैसे वो सीके, what's that mental model to understand the focus on the category sizing the larger the category the more different genres of consumer you observe करते हो so I would fundamentally say that large category multiple sub-categories within the category, for example skin face care is a single category within face care sunscreens है, moisturizers है, serums है face washes है as the core category maybe lip balm है right so अगर आपको लगता है कि यह category is बहुत बीप हो गए typically क्या होता है, how it grows is पहले face care grow होता है, तो face care में moisturizers and face washes grow होता है फिर और शापर उतरहता है specific use case, then serums grow होता है sunscreens grow होता है and lip balm grow होता है, so जैसे से एच एच चμश्रू millennials सेचिकृ बेंकृट थो फो को भीड की कीया शुर्याचा एचिकृ तर दीपर होते रहते रहते हैं अब पर्रक्रेंद बिचे की बएक तक सुछुध ज лайँ तो वो कैटेगरी में क्या स्वाल्फ कर सकता है अडिशनल जो लोगों को चाहिए कैसे प्रोडक्त बना सकते हो विदिन बाट कैटेगरी तो टेक लाज चंक अफ दे काटेगरी मेटी पता कैसे चलता है एक फाउंडर आज देख एक लग रहा है चलो मैं स्किन केर में कुछ बनाता हूं मुझे अब स्किन केर इतना क्लटर हो गया इतने लोग है जहां पर L 'Oreal's of the world L 'Akma's of the world then Estée Lauder then India's own-grown startups Dotin's Naika's whole 5 ,000 things then Mama Earth is trying to do something everybody is it looks like there's an opportunity it's a very big market it will grow in India but these are all players now face wash and sunscreen now how do I know that in the sunscreen तिंटेट संस्क्रीन भी कोई काटिग्री हो सकती है, मिनरल संस्क्रीन भी काटिग्री हो सकती है, और इन में से कौन सी काटिग्री बढ़ी होगी, like how do I understand कि यह गप है, versus, like I can just look at it and be like sunscreen market इतना इतना पेने पेने टेरेडड इतना है, बस यह बढ़ेगा, that's it, like I don't, I'm not able to distinguish, what's that model to understand like as a founder what do you do सबसे पहले तो मैं अपना इंटरेस्ट अरिया को जूँँगा कि कहा में बिल्ड करना है लाज अफ है उसके वाद मैं बोलूँगा मैं लॉंच कर रहा हूं एक काटेगरी बिकुज दे पूफ अपो पुरा लाइफ रिकेट खेले हो आपको century बनाना है पर आपको pitch में तो होना पड़ेगा century बनाने के पहले अगर आप crowd में रहे के ताली मारोगे तो आप century अभी बना ही नहीं पाओगे so in this case अगर आपको कोई brand बनाना है, product बनाना है, space खोजना है तो पहले वो category पकड़ के घुसिए जब category पकड़के घुसोगे तो आपको perfect नहीं होगा कभी उस साल दूसाल में आप जैसे जैसे और depth में जाओगे और समझोगे तो आपको दिखिया clear white spaces आग के सामने दिखेगा ओके, so depth में जाओगे और समझोगे मतलब क्या होता है so depth में जाओगे for example तरह अपने फुले कि यह जर्ङ की टोरोट्न की चालू कि इन व्रम थूर्परॉब्लम सिल्वेशन ब्रैंड था हूम युनिक क्रोड görün्च के थे हमारा first product था swim sunscreen तो उस टाइम sunscreen एक category था बट swim sunscreen category नहीं था बट Anisha swimmer थी तो Anisha को swim sunscreen चाहिए था जो abroad से आता था तो हमें clear gap दिखा कि swim sunscreen होना चाहिए अब swim sunscreen जब बनाना शुरू किये तो एक certain scale 50 लाग एक क्रोड मेने के sale में रुग गया उससे ज़्यादा ग्रो नहीं होड़ा था विकॉस हमें लगा कि बहुत नीश कैटेग्री है तो हम सुचे कि अब हम लाजर कैटेग्री में कैसे घुष पाए तो हम रिलाइज कि एक नॉर्मल जो वाइट कास्ट वाला थिकर संस्क्रीन है हम एकदम water light sun screen मनाएंगे, हम genuinely problem solve करेंगे, तो उससे एक larger category में हम घुछ पाएंगे so यह जो understanding था कि एक larger category में घुछ पाएंगे, उसमें problem क्या है consumer का, यह जो understanding है यह आप खाली देख के कर सकते हो and consumer pain point को कर सकते हो, जब आप एक sun screen अलड़ी बना रहे

17:16By creating a product, By Reaching a By hitting a wall And then trying to Reinvent yourself And launching something else And hoping that'll do well So it's an iterative process of Reaching and launching new products You cannot have Home run on day zero Dotan '我們的 growth At the last four millennium We have grown 40x In the last four years but in the first four years we were very small as a business because that was the time we were figuring things out we were trying to find that consumer insight that works we were trying to find a category that would work for the brand we were trying to find a product formulation that would work for the consumer so i think consistency is the key here there is no right or wrong answer today there's always opportunities around us but we need to find something corner down and start as an entrepreneur you can open it you start one thing you don't work, you pivot you try another thing you work, you do that so on that basis you build a business you don't try it you pivot again so it's an iterative process building a business is an iterative process there is no short short way of building anything but there must be some model mental model, framework, understanding to approach building at least in the beginning like you said for example you gave me a checklist you told me go deeper Anisha your wife her problem was that there was no sunscreen for swimmers that's a personal problem many businesses have a personal problem system and they are made right how do you know that the personal problem that I am the solution that I will make for it वो दुनिया को भी चाहिए, like that's such a difficult क्योंकि 90 % of the businesses, they don't fail I believe like they don't fail because their product was bad, they failed because nobody needed their product, right?

19:27it was solving like for five people, so how do you know that swimmers के लिए sunscreen नहीं है, वो बहुत लोगो चाहिए होगा, because it's your personal, like what are the signals that this is not just Anisha problem this is larger India problem 50 lakh acre per month you never know before you start you can try and get a lot of external data like Nielsen Euro Monitor but those are very expensive reports so most of the successful entrepreneurs that we see around they don't have market they either work at a company which has the relevant knowledge on that basis they build it परकुछ उनके पास पांच साल, आट साल, दस साल का experience होता है अलड़ी वो category में तो उनको clear inciting पहले से होती है जिसके business में बिजनिस बना रहे होते है या कोई personal pain point होता है जिससे आप solve करते हो बट जिससे आप pivot करते हो बट अगर आप externally चालू कर रहे हो तो या तो आप mentor हो जिय जी कि मुवीं आप लिक फर एंपल आप है आपक प्र प्राइप के लिए बिल्दिंग इस प्राइपर्फॉर्म है प्राइपर्फॉर्ज विच इन्वेस निन स्टार्टप्स बढ़ी पैसे निए बेसे निए बटेटाप को बहुत मैं निन डेते हैं जारीटिरी बेस्ट ऑन building the doton की playbook चो हम 2018 से बना रहे हैं but it's I'm still not able to get कोई तो validation metric पता हो गया mechanism होगा कि अच्छा मेरा product work करता है नहीं करेगा तो product work करता है नहीं करेगा in terms of sizing I think like मैंने just the ideation of the process क्योंकि अगर अच्छा product बनाना तो time लगता है, पैसा लगता है, बहुत हरे चीज़ा लगती है right then swim swimmers के लिए sunscreen बनाना कैसे validate कि यह सही है

21:34और was it just like co-evalidation नहीं कुछ नहीं मेरे को बनाना था, मेरे लिए मेरे प्रॉब्लम सॉल्व होगी, तो यह बेचेंगे, बिग गया था ठीक है नहीं तो नहीं? I think start ऐसे ही होता है अगर वो wall hit कर जाता हो revenue नहीं भड़ता है तो आप pivot करते हो आप दूसरा चीज देखते हो also काफी चीज कर सकते हो actually Google Trends जाके Google Trends में आप देख सकते हो कि क्या चीज ग्रोव हो रहा है and क्या sizing है sizing absolute sizing नहीं मिलता है पर relative sizing मिलता है आप Amazon में जाके Amazon ranking देख सकते हो अगर Amazon ranking में आपको clearly बताता है कि कौन सा product का कितना ranking है कौन से category में तो उससे आपको sizing का knowledge होता है अगर कोई rank 1 है तो एक certain deep category sizing होगी that's why that specific product is rank 1 in the category अगर rank 100 में भी कोई product आपको नजर नहीं आ रहा तो वो probably उसका depth नहीं है अभी currently category में I think fourth fourth thing is that there are tools that you can hook on to Amazon to find कि कि किवोन कितना volume कर रहा है आप tools use करिये helium जैसे जिस्टो आपको volume बता देता है कि क्या volume बिक रही है क्या volume नहीं बिक रही है आप लोग को cold message करिये जो Amazon में काम करता है flip card में काम करता है क्या वो help कर देंगे आपको अगर मुझे कोई चीज बहुत ज़्यादा चीवता तो मैं हो सकता है उनका office पहुच जाओ उनके घर पहुच जाओ ताकि वो information मिल जाए तो अल्टिमेटली आपको information चीज अगर information relevant हो enough हो तो आप start तो करी सकते हो यह चीज़ क्लियर है कि कोई भी बिजनिस में आपको चालू करना पड़ेगा और उसके बाद आपको बिजनिस समझ में आएगी और उसके बाद आप सक्सेस्फल हो सकते हो तो बेस्ट इस तो स्टाट and not just keep on pondering over ideas because ideas to easily come 98 % of ideas पे अच्छ नहीं लेते और जो 2 % action लेते हैं successful businesses and successful founders पेज़ नहीं निकलते हैं true, true you said I will reach the home, do you have any story like that?

23:42जहाँ पे आप किसी के company चले के बैठी के चल आज तो बता के जाओंगा, बता नहीं तो नहीं जाओंगा I've done that in past I went to DMART just to I used to sit there for days कि भाई मेरा माल बेच नहीं थाएदर कुछ तो करना पड़ेगा I didn't have any connect so I did that I mean Reliance में किया था Reliance अच्छ करके आधा तुस्ताहिम पे Big Bazaar में किया More में किया Walmart में किया Metro में किया Best Price मेला Walmart का जो था like हर जोग I used to do this बैठी आथा था था मेर को बता हो कैसे भीजते हैं and then finally 2-3 दिन 4 दिन भीजने का they would give me like number or some category manager की इनको reach out करो, इनको email करो and that's all things would happen मुझे आथ है 2018 में जिस टॉटन की चालू कि यह चार मेना वा था and Naika was the largest beauty platform and apparently getting into Naika was very difficult and Naika से response आना बहुत ही difficult था on listing तो मैं और अनिशा डिसकाश कि कि चलो अपने NICA बंबे office चलते है अपने mail कर देते है कि हम लोग आ रहे है पड़ हमें response नहीं मिला बोले हम लोग फिर भी चलते हैं तो हम लोग गये NICA में दो गहंटा वेट किये वो category manager was good enough and sweet enough to meet us nice but the fact is that we have reached our whole process fast track of listing on Nika and whatever thing that was 30, 60, 90 days was in 7 days sweet sweet how did you convince what did you say to the category manager we show products so when you show actual products and a passion energy, excitement founder excitement तो लोग कन्वेंस हो जाते हैं बिकस दुनिया में सब इसक्साइट नहीं रहते हैं and people who are building something exciting and people buy into that vibe and they end up doing things for you which they otherwise wouldn't do I agree people catch on there like your vibe that's so true sometimes you feel like business sense तो नहीं मनता मुझे तो जो जो कियों ही मौका देगा वट क्योंकि आपका पैशन और एक्साइटमेंट इतनी होती दे लाइक यह जिस फॉर इस परसे लेफ में दो इट लेफिगर आउट दे मेकानिक्स लेटर मैं खुद भी करता हूँ अगर कोई यंगर founder आया कोई चीज समझना है कोई चीज बोलना है वो बार -बार मुझे message कर रहा है कि please support करिये help करिये आफिना दीजे तो मैं काफी बार दे देता हूं और उससे वो founder का life change रिजाता है काफी बार so I think giving is the best feeling for a founder because you have gone through the struggle and you understand another founder struggle कभी किसी में पैसे दालें ऐसे एंजल इंवेस्टमेंट किया जस्ताड़ो वाइबस कि यार इस मीटिंग में मज़ा आगया भाई तुछ से बात करके ठीक है बिसनेस सेंज करें गाने करें दोंट नो बढ़िए ज़िए चेक मैं most angel investments ऐसे करता हूँ because early stage companies में आप दो चीज देखते हो आप category देखते हो and founder को देखते हो and category अगर अच्छा होता है fast growing होता है time large enough होता है तो लगता है ये category में invest कर सकते है and अगर founder top निकलता है and उसमें hustle grit and hard work करने का capability हो तो मैं तो चेक लिख देता हूं विकुज अल्टिमेटली आप घोडे पे तो पैसे लगा रहे हो अगर घोडा दोर सकता है तो यह नहीं बानी विल अलसो ग्रो and hopefully you learn something also on the way true तो ठीक है everybody you can just बार जेम हम इनका इटरस आलते है पोन नमबर आलते है please go share your vibes, get money from him.

27:42Okay, tell me about business again. So first was swim. Swimmers के लिए संस्क्रीन कोई भी बिनी है. From that, मैं अज़े स्टार्ट किया. To India's cool Gen Z skincare, ये किसा अज़े? Like how did that journey happen? At what point did you decide, कि अज़े लिए संस्क्रीन नहीं बनाऊंगा? अब मैं इंडिया के जैन जी के लिए एक skin care पेना हुगा that will be my positioning उसे अब से प्रोडक्ट सालूगा at what point this change comes so out of frustration आता है out of ambition आता है

28:19I think first two years of the journey हम भी discover कर रहे थे D2C चलता कैसे है because उस ताइम D2C वर्ड कोई नहीं नहीं आता उस टाइम ओनलाइन बिजनसे चलते कैसे हैं अमज़न कैसे चलते हैं उस टाइम प्लैक्फोर्म का नॉलिज बहुत जादा नहीं था and I don't come from the space at all, मैं हाटकोर रिल इस्टेट फैमली से आया हूं and मुझे रिल इस्टेट का बहुत नॉलिज था पड़ कंजूमर मुरे लिए एकदम नया था पहला दो साल तो हम खाली जो प्रोड़क्ट है उसको इस्टैबिश करने का ट्राइ करे थे, मार्केट प्लेस समझ रहे थे कि हाओ डियू सेल उन मार्केट प्लेसे मार्केटिंग कैसे करते है उसमझ रहे थे social media कैसे करते है समझते थे because inherently उसका knowledge नहीं था एक दम ecosystem में performance marketing का भी limited knowledge था लोग खाली on कर देते थे spends को and डिखते थे अपने अप कुछ हो रहा है उस टाइम इतने creative changes sharp communication influencers का conversation चालो हो गया था हम भी काम करते है influencer तो आज जितना influencer का impact है, उतना impact उस टाइम था नहीं, उतना knowledge भी नहीं था.

29:28तो I think first two years was discovery phase. हम सब चीज को figure out कर रहे थे. हमारा real break आया 2020 में, जब हम आप आप आप नीश प्रोड़क्स नी बनाएंगे, हम बहुत specific product नी बनाएंगे, हम थोड़े से broad, generic, एक प्रोब्लम सॉल्विंग प्रोड़क्ट बनाएंगे एंड उस ताइम तक कोवेड आ गया था एंड कोवेड में बिजनेस मुड़ अप 6 एक्स मतलब उसके पहले हम 3 ,000 कोड़ एक साल का कर रहे थे एंड कोवेड में 20-22 कोड़ एक साल का certain products like उस टाइम हमारा hero product था एक AHA, BHA peeling solution at home क्योंकि COVID में कोई पालर नी जा रहा था, beauty पालर था तो some of these products बहुत अच्छा एक्स्प्रोड गया but COVID का impact खतम होते ही यह चीज काफी decline होने लग गया business flatline हो गया and business बहुत अच्छा नहीं कर रहा था at that point of time आप introspection में जाते हो as founders आप तो सब चीज जैसे पहले कर रहे थे वैसे कर रहे हैं but why is it not working तो इंट्रोस्पेक्शन के बाद लगा कि COVID का जो period था उसमें कम से कम 100-200 नए ब्रैंड जा गए market में competition काफी बढ़ गया average selling prices काफी drop हो गए तो तो अब चेंज रिक्वाइट था बिसने एपॉजनेस तो वेल रहे और हम काफी मोल्ड वगर चाइन से इंपोर्ट करे थे इसके लिए इसके लिए था प्लस इंपक्टेट था बिकवस इंटाय कोईड पीस तो वी वे लाइक यूज वी निए टू सम्थिंग वे बिसनेस तो kickstart again because business जैसे हम सोचे थे वैसे नहीं जा रहा at that point of time at that introspection time we realized कि यार जब competition भड़ता है तो it is very important to find your own niche which is large enough कि आप बड़ा brand बना सकते but small enough कि कोई वो चोटा सा niche में focus नहीं कर रहा है at that point of time we realized कि Gen Z's को कोई सर्व नहीं कर रहा है सब लाजर ब्रैंट बना रहे हैं लाजर अफॉस कर रहे हैं सबका इंबेशन हजार करोड का ब्रैंड बनाने का है उस्टे आरा में ऑद नका सोगोडा ब्रैंड बनाने का तो हम बोले कि एम जैंजी को फोकुस करेंगे हम problem solution जो core है dotnki का उसको intact रखेंगे moisturizer category पे focus करेंगे, sunscreen category पे focus करेंगे and products अफोरड़बल बनाएंगे ताकि एक broader audience को reach कर पाए gen z segment में right so it is very important for the brand to have कि कि कि के लिए brand बन रहा है ताकि आपका marketing communication आपका social media आपका performance का targeting कि वो specific audience के लिए बन पाए बेकाज एक 40-year-old lady का और एक 23-year-old girl का requirement बहुत अलग होता है true so हम बोले कि हम younger audience के लेंगे जो underserved है जो global brands बहुत अच्छा से कर पा रहे है globally इंडिया में नी कर पा रहे है तो उनको पकड़े category पकड़ा sunscreen बिकास अदॉप्शन यंगर जेरेशन में जादा होता है एल्डर से तो वो 23 गर्ल के लिए संस्क्रीन बनाएं एक और चीज रिलाइज कि हम अगर यंगर जेरेशन यंगर ओडियन्स को पकड़ेंगे विच इस वेटीज गर्ल हम उनको 12-14 साल तक सफ कर सकते हैं तो लाइफ � बिल्ट है। Generowski to love.

33:23लुझान कॉणम अ लिभा �genceृ घर कीडITY में, इसका अधिम्यूर इस पागट. and I think lesser number of products clear consumer inciting clear audience clear content plan for that audience brand चल पड़ा because we realized that एक brand में क्या नहीं करना है और आप clearly define कर देते हो तो brand sharper होते रहता है and जितना sharper होता है वो specific audience से better बात करता है and lesser marketing dollars में better acceptance होती आपका product में and अगर inciting strong होता है तो और better acceptance होता है so cumulatively focus से best brands बनते है and clear boundaries set करने से best brand बनते है so some of these inciting हम discover किये कि करना चाहिए success करने के लिए and ये difficult call तब आया जब हमारे पास bank में पैसे बहुत कम थे so you take the best calls when you don't have monies in the bank and you have to survive because the entrepreneur's number one goal is survival I agree and when you launch I was reading that you you had a lot of different molds you had a lot of money in packaging now you start a brand you have a lot of money in limited capital how do you decide as a founder that in these places I have to pay more money and these are the places where I will cut corners and I'll not invest a lot क्योंकि कहीं न कहीं तो आपको sacrifice करना ही पड़ेगा so how did you decide कि packaging पे ही करचा करूंगा not on anything else and what are the places you actually cut corners so fundamentally ये brand value system पे का question है कि brand क्या चीज में consumer को incremental value दे रहा है and क्या चीज में base case value दे रहा है for doton की हम realized कि इंडिया में अच्छा experience वाले products बहुत कम है at Indian value values, like at Indian prices तो इसलिए हम invest किये because हमें पता था कि पहला purchase packaging दिखके होता है but repeat purchase product दिखके होता है तो इसलिए हम strong packaging में invest किये जो distinct था जो बहुत strong recall बिल्ड करता था consumer के and then product में invest किये so we made sure कि हम कोई भी चीज में cut corner नहीं किये as a brand because हमें बहुत clear था है कि हमारा passion project है इसको best जो कर सकते है वो हमें करना है fundamentally in the beginning you must have cut corners I'll tell you my example जब मैंने podcast start किया तो यह visual experience है audio experience है तो starting में जब पैसे नहीं थे to invest and build this setup मैंने कोई अच्छे कैमरा में इन्वेस्ट नी किया, I cut corners on video, बहुती घटिया quality की online zoom type की quality पे videos बने वे हैं, audio कोई अच्छा नहीं है, in fact जब first time आया, तब first time मैंने फिर audio पे mic अच्छा ले लिया, लेकिन video तब भी बहुती बेकार, बहुत ही सस्तावला कैमरा ले लिया देन उसके बाद जब और थोड़े पैसे आए तो लाइट बहुत खराब थी लेकिन कैमरा दो कर दिये मैंने कट कॉर्नर करें लाइट पे, विजुवल्स पे, और अडियो पे दीरे दीरे दीरे देन उसके बाद फिर जब सब हो गया तो मैंने सेटप पे कोई ध्यान दिया, मैं कट कॉर्नर पर अच्छा अच्छी क्वालिटी है, पास में करते तो, पीछे क्या फर्ग पड़ता है दिवाल पे बैठ जाएंगे, so you cut corners in the beginning to understand, because मेरा focus था कि मैं content पे cut corner नहीं करूँगा, मैं नौलेज और रिसरच पर नहीं करहुगा.

37:18जो गास भी से एजुकेशनल कॉंटन नहीं और इण है जै करो. तो मैंने कभी भी मैं अच भी एंटरिम नहीं किया. मैंने कभी भी टाइमपस नहीं किया. प्रिक जाएम चॉच नहीं कुछ नहीं किया. तु उस पे कट कोरन ने किया बड़ वाकी सब पे किया इन दे बिगिनिक यू दो आफ इनव मनी और टाइम और रिसोर्स वाइब विल्यू दू आपसुलूटली अब आपको एक फॉर रास इडिया हम प्रोड़क्ट पर कभी कॉंपरमाइज ने किया L bachyaging, हमेशा बहुत stirring था हडिवाया था यंदर हमेशा बहुत क्याणoga He was not уч जौनित पॉस्टवारफी क्या ही अनुप ने करीक देन 게 erी के सब्सक्राइब उप सब्सक्राइब हम marketing में खर्चा नहीं किये अज़ ब्रैंड हम marketing में least खर्चा करते है industry का one of the lowest marketing expenses हमारा beginning सरा है आज भी आज हमारा D2C ब्रैंड में lowest marketing spend है so हम realized कि अग अग अग अग अग अग अग अग product strong हो the consumer insight तक अग अग अग अग अग अग product strong हो packaging and what's inside तो आपको मार्केटिंग में खर्चा करने का रिक्वार्मेंट नहीं है ओवर टाइम वो रिडियूस ही होता है इरिस्पेक्टिव कितना कॉंपेशन क्यों नहीं आ जाए Is that true today as well?

38:46Today also Today our marketing spend is the lowest marketing spend in the industry and it's very simple because we brand पे हम बहुत फोकस करते है packaging बहुत distinct रखते है जिसके करने recall बहुत strong रहता है हमारा जो communication and content framework हो बहुत शाप है, वो 23 ओल गरल के लिए बना हुआ है so अगर आप social media page खोलोगे तो उसमें आपको clearly दिखेंगे यंग लड़किया है which is talking to young girls which is very relevant for today right I think third thing is कि हमारा product का inciting बहुत strong है जिसके करने प्रोड़क जिल बेनिल डिवरिय काई कर्छेड सीयक्ट कर्ते हैं दूट इप направिनिज लोग भी तरी Sundays कर्ते हैं प्रिरुट आप अइन प्रोड़ड़क cheerful जाड़न्य है चलत है तो आपको आपको ऐसा प्राड़क्त चाहिए जो आपका आपका स्किन बार्यर को हीढ करे तो हम इंडिया के परडियर के फिर्स ब्रेंड है ज्मीजे के प्रडियर रिपेर का प्रोडव criança किया कि अग यूघ किये फ्रोडी के Beim counting studies allora जिसके कारण प्रोड़क का पेनेटरेशन हुआ and because आप कैटेगरी बिल्ड किये and आप कैटेगरी क्रिएट किये आपका right to win maximum है because आप educate किये and लोग समझते हैं कि आपका brand ही कैटेगरी है so as long as आप internally कुछ change नहीं करें वो फोकस कर रहे है आपका मार्केटिंग हमेशा लोईष्ट ही रहेगा तुछ यू सब यू रीडग विग विज यू थाटिंग बाओ कि आपका स्पेंड हमेशा भार्केटिंग लो रहेगा क्योंकि आप इंसाइड बाद स्टौंग करते हो और इंसाइड आप comments, reviews, things like that.

40:49Do you read your negative reviews as well? As much as positive? As a founder, I read negative reviews. I read negative reviews. Sometimes I have sleepless nights for a week. Give me one negative review that has come. And you feel bad about it and you try to fix it. Because every brand not your brand will work on let's say out of 180 people तो 20 होंगे जिन पर वर्क नहीं करेगी या मेभी 2 होंगे जिन पर वर्क नहीं करेगी इफ 98 पर वर्क करता है तो कोई भी प्रडॉट्क 95 % लोग के लिए उप्टिमाइज रहता है 5 % का स्किन में कुछ नो कुछ फंडमेंटल चैलेंज होगी which might be more internal than product wise like for example one of our sunscreens challenge आया कि आपका sunscreen जितना cooling में सोचाता है उतना cooling नहीं होता है sunscreen 3-4 degree से जाद है cool तो नहीं कर सकती है fundamentally so मैं रिलाइज कि आप सब consumer को खुश नहीं कर सकता है as long as 80-90 % consumer को आप खुश रख रहे हो तो आपके प्रॉडक्स के रेटिंग अक्रॉस मार्केट प्लेसे कुंसिस्टेंटली स्टॉंग हो, आपके रिपीट रिट रिट रॉड तूस्ते सॉलेश वाट्स टी आरओ फर यू अन प्रेमियम पैकजिंग कि क्या मैठ है होता है because if you're investing so much on packaging and premium products premium looking product ROI बेनेफिट होता है बहुत जादा होता है it's a most ROI driven investment the brand has ever made the recall for the brand the consistent marketing drop the repeat rate it's like you look like a Shah Rukh Khan where every other brand looks like a common man and it works people pay premium for it people choose you over everyone else so the premium might not be in more pricing but the premium is in more volumes that you are able to sell you'll be able to stand out so if you have a shelf of 20 products kept on it people will touch the Dotonki product at least once and it is probably the number one, number two product that they will notice and how do you crack this branding and packaging?

43:16who did it for you? so our core packaging we went to Cosmoprof Hong Kong and we found a vendor in China who would make this packaging we loved it we were like this packaging we will launch this packaging so initial one or two products with a unique hat cap यह पेसाथ हम Cosmoprof से लाग के launch, launch के इंडिया में पड़ हम रिलाइज कि एक cap एक mode बन गया है इतना distinct है, इतना clear है कि लोग भूल ने रहे तो वो फिर shape को हम extend करते गए so me and Anisha at night, after everyone went to sleep at home, 10 से 12 बुए तक बैठ के different sketches रहते रहते कि अब हम और गोन वीड, कैसे एक्षेंट करें रड्च करें, वो युनीग फ्रेश पैक�ěजिंग ग्या होगा, जो इसुमन को धिक्साइट करेगा Nice So वो नहीं ग्रैिंग करते करते करते feeling

44:20बेटर एट मोल्ड बेसिकली यह इस्टील के स्ट्रॉक्चर रोपै जिसमें वो पैकिजिंग निकलता है प्लास्टिक का हमारे पास एक लीस्ट 40-50 दिफिरेंट मोल्ड अकरोस किते गाता है यह इस पंद्राइबीस क्रोड रॉड़ होगा एक रेजी and you feel that investment is justifiable absolutely it's absolutely justifiable because when our volumes increase we can still make those molds the cost of packaging is actually lower than competition because we have our own molds so the manufacturing cost is much lower it's a larger upfront cost but a much lower per piece cost data so it's a great investment in terms of COGS also so ultimately at a lower cost we are delivering much higher value to the consumer and it works as a distinguisher very heavily very clearly and I know new brand or like a young startup would want to invest in mold like this so that doesn't even buy shapes we have 10 plus patents in our name shapes so no one can copy a packaging so the packaging which is ours will always remain ours and it becomes a moat for the brand in the long term or global so typically we have registered in India so nobody can do in India but it has a global regulation that maybe certain countries have trade deals which cover patents and trademarks and stuff so it might be extended in other countries also nice and when you are doing this you said कि अबार वाज पैसे कम थे और फिर हमको सिफ जन जी के लिए प्रोडट्स बनाने थे I read somewhere कि आपने कुछ -कुछ प्रोडट्स न पहले हजार लोगों पर टेस्स किये थे बहुत लंबा टाइम लगाय था तू फाइंड दे राइट प्रोडट्ट देन this is this advice or this what you did is somewhat contradictory to the startup world right in startup I say launch fast fail fast you know stuff like that you should have to go quickly quickly quickly so when should a founder optimize for speed versus perfection and when you are making product any product launch any product is doing how do I know कि मेरा product ready है market के लिए कि नहीं है and when does that नहीं है become procrastination not product improvement so जब आप brand जिस चालू करते हो ना आप भी discover कर रहे होते हो कि क्या सही है और क्या गलत है तो first two to three years of the brand जब तक product market fit hit नहीं करे तब तक आपको super fast launch करना चाहिए product जो market में को ही नहीं कर रहे है अब फ्रेश कर रहे हो आप फर्स कर रहे हो तो फर्स्ट मुवर अड्वांटेज रियल होता है okay because you have to आपको दिखना है you want people to see you because it's almost impossible for someone to discover you see you because you don't have marketing dollars and you if you have a differentiated product which you hit first market which you don't need to do which you don't need to do you don't need a small chance so it is speed is paramount at that point of time and मैं बोलता हूं कि start-ups के लिए the big doesn't eat the small the fast eats the slow so I feel that time it is absolutely relevant to make sure that the brands are super fast but once you hit PMF when your product acceptance you have touched like for BPC 10 lakh consumers you have served 10 lakh consumers there is an overall acceptance of the brand that time you can't do mistakes after that नहीं कर सकते हैं, आप ऐसा प्रडॉड़्ड लॉँच नहीं कर सकते हैं, जो इसक हंपर्डॉड़्ी बेनिफेट डिलेवर नहीं करता, वो नहीं हो सकता, वो असल्विंग पॉरफएक्ट प्रडॉड़्ड बहुत इंपॉर्टन होता है, right and it is important कि आप KPIs बनाएं कि ये product को क्या deliver करना है and वो KPI को external test करा है so हमारा internal ये learning है कि initial phase में आप 90 days में launch कर सकते हो product को BPC में कि 90 days में आप launch कर दी it's a great job and at the second phase it should not be more than 6 months कि अगर 6 months में proper homework करके iterative test करके perfect formula निकाल के consumer studies करके आप अगर launch करते हो तो you are doing a great job Give me an example of KPI You said कि इस product को deliver क्या करना है और वो deliver करता है कि नहीं करता है that's the only thing you need to So give me an example of one product उसका KPI क्या decide कि और वो कैसे पताचला deliver करता है So sunscreen लेते है So sunscreen का some KPI is that SPF 50 in vivo tested है कि नहीं है वो पास हुआ कि नहीं हुआ, that's the first KPI second, वो वाइट कास दे रहा है कि नहीं दे रहा है third, वो अबसॉप्शन एजली हो पार है या नहीं हो पार है third, उसका इमोलियनसी कैसा है when you spread it in your hands how easy is it to spread it is it really smooth or is it very muddy so it is very important to solve that how does it visually look does it sting the eye once you use it does it pill after you apply does it get absorbed by the skin easily how does it behave with different skin types you have oily skin, dry skin combination skin so how does it behave for each skin type all the previous for each skin type yeah I think this is some of the KPIs that we optimize it for but how do you build this product then contract manufacturers when you go to contract manufacturers choose how to do who's the right manufacturer because you all need and when you're small contract manufacturer will say we'll take this right

50:52it's actually a pain point it's very tough in the beginning for a small company to find a really good contract manufacturer and then get them to do the kind of customization which you want at a small price and a small MOQ तो कैसे choose करते हैं right contract manufacturer मैं मैं दॉटन की का थोड़ा बोलता हूँ फिर contract manufacturer पे आते हो so when we started out हमारा जो KPIs था जो product था वो हम बहुत clear थे कि हमें यही product चाहिए so अगर वो जादा टाइम भी क्यो नहीं लग जाए वो हमें perfect चाहिए होता है तो भी पुश करते थे contract manufacturer को till the point कि वो breakdown हो जाता था so at that point we said कि आप यहां रुख देते हैं अब यह best product है अब launch कर देते हैं but यह चीज आप उस level तक करते हो जब तक आप खुद का R &D lab afford नहीं कर सकते हैं because ultimately अगर आपका R &D lab खुद का internal हो जाता है तो आप यह iterative process, यह briefing, यह testing, यह process का speed को काफी बढ़ा के better quality products deliver कर सकते हो, तो उसको solve करते हैं, फिर आप third party में, आप अपना peers को देखते हो, कहां से बना रहे हैं, back of pack से, आप market survey करते हो, कि कौन -कौन लोग है, कौन reach out कर रहे हैं आपके लिए, आप अपने फॉर्मुलेटर को पूछते हो कि कहां बनाना चाहिए उसके बेसिस में बनाते है और तो बी हॉनिस्ट ब्राइंट तो खाली वो मेन्यू रहता है मेन्यू से पिक करते हैं वाइट लेबल करते हैं और उसको ब्राइंट बना के बेज देते हैं पर आप दोटन की हम वो कभी नहीं किये हमारा कभी ओडियने नहीं था तो हम हमेशा अपना स्पेस्टिक प्रॉड़क बना के अपने ओन मोल्ड़ेड पैकेजिंग में चंजुमर को सब्सक्राइब किये if somebody is building a brand and that's going to deal with contract manufacturer then which 3-4 जगे where contract manufacturer can screw you up and that's cheating or you'll get a little you'll get a little wrong what are those places what should we be cognizant of so I think the first thing is what you are committing in terms of formulation and what formulation you are doing so very important to get a proper QC done of what ingredients are being put in the product second actually testing the efficacy of the product that the product which is claiming the benefit is giving or not how do we test this efficacy?

53:26you can do it in the labs there is a CCFT lab in India there is a 3-4 lab जहां पर टेस्ट कर सकते है of the efficacy of the product depending on the product sunscreen में से SPF in vivo testing कराते हो कि वो effective है कि नहीं है कितने रुपय लगते हैं इस टेस्ट कराने में उटाँ टीन लाग रुपया पर टेस्ट लाग इस बेरी एक्सपेंसिफ for a young founder to do it, is there another way? first, you can see in-vitro, if SPF 50 comes, then you can do it in-vivo, not in-vitro, which is 10-12 ,000 rupees, so you can send it. And CCFT? CCFT, labs. So how important it is, and how often does it happen, that a contract manufacturer speaks to it or makes it more?

54:13Does it happen often or no? It's very often. Contract manufacturers are very very difficult to deal with वहारे हमेजारे होएग हम एक भाग है वॉल्यूम प्रोडक्क प्रोड्च इर्डेर्से से निकाल प्रोरा क्उन्तर्राक्ट मैंने धे चैने को देत है बहुत ही ऑनिस्त है I think प्रोकरेंडेकों अधरन के प्रांस्पैरेंशी इंप्राइसंग दे रहा है and quantities नहीं दे रहा है, मतलब there's a red flag hmm अगर वो आपके सामने manufacturing नहीं कर रहा है, तो रेट flag है तो contract manufacturer ऐसे नहीं होते है कि starting में, मैं क्यों बताँ मेरी process मैं क्यों बताँ मेरी ingredients, मैं दे दूँ आपको top quality, करा लेना test, उन्लोक try करेंगे ऐसे करने का, but it is very important for you as a founder कि आप transparency के लिए पुछ करें बेकर अल्टिमेटली सफर आपको पर कंजुमर करेगा और वो कंजुमर का लिएपिलिटी अज अज फाउंडर आपको लेना बहुत ही जरूरी है और इंग्रीडियंट विन यू दू जब contract manufacturer आपको देंगे जो भी ingredient list दी उसकी pricing भी दे दी विल दाट बी true pricing for him at the purchase level definitely not the true pricing that's including a good thick margin exactly right but at least आप future में negotiate कर सकते हो once you have volumes आप बापस बोल सकते हो तक ये ingredient का price तो अब इतना में मिल रहा है आप करके दीज़े so आप कैस leverage है वो पास जा के नेगोशेट करने का once you scale up जैसे vitamin C for example वो बहुत सस्ते में भी बहुत महेंगे में भी आएगा which one is he putting how would you know that या आपको बोला कि चल मैं 500 रुपय के जी वाला दालू गजापल और दालता है 50 रुपय वाले 50 रुपय वाला how is that like how are you gonna test or figure that out we are doing a lot of simple things if he is committing to say vitamin C value tree so I will call the value tree to the dealer what is the third party manufacturer that ingredient you are buying if he is yes I have to give him the benefit of the doubt if he says no that is not our work he is definitely not bringing it but this is true तोप कमपनीज को क्यों बेचे रहेंगे नहीं कि उनके बहुत हारे मुल्टिबल इस्टिबूटर्स होते होंगे इस्टिबूटर्स अभाग बेच आपको तरह और बेच्टे ओंगे तो इनको लगता है कि इंडस्ट्री बाद बड़ा है बड़ अब everyone knows everyone so if you phone then you know and tell them to you because you are a potential customer and no customer doesn't know interesting then you launched, you said you said that you don't launch a lot 1, 2, 3 products you started scaling how do you decide which strategy is better and how do you decide which strategy is better for us कि एक -दो hero product launch करना और उनी के उपर चलाना कि multiple products launch कर देना and then let's see कि audience को क्या पसंदा रहा है फिर उसको double down triple down करना I think founders का clarity पर है अगर founders को clarity है कि ये product definitely चलेगा तो कम products launch करेंगे वो consumer insight बोलेंगे कि ये consumer insight के लिए launch करेंगे फिरेंपल हमारा sunscreen water light है तो वो water light का insight बहुत ही strong insight था तो उसके basis में अगर मैं launch करता हूँ तो मैं कम product launch करता and वो product को बहुत बेचता but अगर वो inciting clear नहीं है and founder को clarity नहीं है तो founder multiple products launch करेगा and फिर देखे हैं कौन सा consumer को अच्छा लग रहा है and वो product पर फिर फॉर्दर इंवेस्ट करके उसको सेल करेगा आज कि दिन अगर आप ब्राइंड बिल्ड करे ओ तो इस इस इंपॉर्टंट है आप क्यों जुख विंद उपॉर्टंट है

58:26आप क्यों लॉपर्टंट कर रहे हो आपका रीजन टू विंड क्या है चृषारग तरह वही प्रोडट्स पिकता है, जो प्रोडक्ट आप मार्केट नहीं करते हैं, वो नहीं पिकता है, तो टोड़ेइ फृट आप वाइड वाइड कोई भी केटिग्री में, तो मैं कम प्रोडक्स करता, उसको पुफेक करता, clear reason to win build karta product में and उसको पूरा might लगा देता market करने में and educate करने में consumer को ताकि chances जीतने का बहुत भड़ जाता अपकी process क्या है to find a differentiated insight how do you choose that because that's the most important gold nugget that you just said कि ये water light मेरा insight बहुत clear था कि waterlight sunscreen चलेगा how do you find it?

59:19what's the process to pick? because now you're doing at your fund, you're actually investing in so many people so many startups as well, so you're watching so what's your process? I read comments on Instagram, so suppose beauty and personal influencers make a reel, which is a high engagement so I keep reading for example for example, when I read तो वन अपना इंसाइट जो मुझे आये रिसेंटली कि आपके तिंटेट संसीन में हमें और शेड्स चाहिए है तो वो इंसाइट में रेजिस्टर कर लिया कोई कॉम्पटिशन का प्रोड़क्त में एक चीज बहुत अच्छा लगा वो क्या ट्रेट है जो बहुत अच्छा � जिसके कारण वो competition के products ले रहे है या कुछ American influencers को मैं follow करता हूँ उसमें comments में क्या लिखावें लोग को product क्यों पसंदा रहे है so going very deep into where the real consumers are commenting and sharing their mind is where I would go to get these insights मैं reviews पढ़ता हूँ marketplaces मैं अपना reviews पढ़ता हूँ competition के reviews पढ़ता हूँ उससे बहुत clear हो जाता है कि अगर मेरा एक product बिक रहा है, वो क्यो बिक रहा है, क्या काम कर रहा है, अगर उसमें एक negative है, तो क्या negative है, उसको हम कैसे solve कर सकते हैं काम करके, and competition का product, हम रिव्यू पढ़के दिखते हैं कि वो क्यो बिक रहा है, why are consumers buying their products, वाट इस वोकिंग फो दैम तो रियली यूजिंग इस टूल्स जो ओफ -लाइन में पहले नहीं होता था ओफ -लाइन में मैनुली आपको जाके चुन्जूमर से बात करने पड़ती थी अब ओनलाइन में आपको इतना रिटन इंफिमेशन है रेडिट में आप जाके देख सकते हो so there are multiple tools जहां पर पढ़ सकते हो कि internet क्या बोल रहा है आपके products के बारे में and वहां से आप collective insight ले सकते हो कभी कुछ बना है ऐसे comment के insight से उठा के Tinted Sunstream के shades हम तीन shades से launch किये थे comment पढ़के 2 shades और launch किये comment पढ़के मलब हम constantly comment पढ़ते रहते है और उससे लॉजिक निकालते रहते हैं और प्रॉड़क लॉच्ट करते रहते हैं बिकुस्ट कुंजूमर शुट इस अउनली टूथ वन यूर रॉनिग अगनुवर ब्रैंड अब जितना उनका इंसाइटिंग उनका फीडबाइक and उनके comments पढ़के अब जितना value extract कर सकते हो and successful brand बना सकते हो खुद के insights से नहीं बना सकते हैं true and how do you test कि जैसे comment पढ़ा अब दो और tint लाँच कर लेते हैं now that you're launching what is that metric you will track कि मैं अब अपने करोड़ो रुपेस पे लगाऊंगा market करने में कि नहीं भाई ये inside मेरा गलत हो गया, विए sometimes inside will be wrong also, absolutely, so then we would हम क्या करते हैं, फिर 50 influencer को reach out करते हैं, because closely काम करते हैं skin influencers, जिनको skin का knowledge है, उनको shades भेजते हैं, उनसे feedback लेते हैं about 800-1000 consumers को phone कराते हैं धाइसो थाइसो थाइसो थाइसो थाइसो product sample shades भेजते हैं, उनका feedback लेते हैं यह पूरा जो information है इसको accumulate करके फिर हम call लेते हैं कि कहां पहुचे यह इतरेटे प्रोसेस है यह constantly लेते रहते हैं till a point वो product perfect हो जाता है and it 80 % people have liked the shade, it is adding incremental value tinted sunscreen के लिए और फिर जितना confident हो सकते हैं, उत्ते confidence से launch करते हैं How do you decide right price के end in customer के लिए?

1:03:02India is not a price sensitive market. India is a value sensitive market. You are seeing the price in Absolution and value, product, product benefit, differentiation, packaging, the overall set of features together at a certain price. so typically if we price in this product market we will see how much mass brands are selling mass teach brands mass premium brands and we will define that if mass brands 1 then mass teach brands 1.25 or 1.75 mass premium brands 2 luxury brands 5x so it depends on which brand you are building and what consumer perception you are building effectively so for an Indian consumer a solid differentiated brand differentiated packaging product solid you can use a premium command so for Doughton we are a mass-teach brand mass premium and mass-teach brand so we are more or less for our core categories I'm about 50 % premium charge from mass and mass brands basically and certain categories which are highly competitive categories like face washes I'm about 15-20 % premium charge so it is very important to segment that your brand what is in which category falls and based on what genre of brand you want to build you build the entire value framework of ingredients, product packaging benefit your marketing communication to that set of consumers and you have to stick to that for years and consistently build it and this is can people use it as thumb rule that 15-20 % premium or 50 % or 10 % premium whatever 3-4 ways that you told me so the best way to do it is look at each category individually and in the category you can categorize that for example face washes is that the most affordable brand is probably 140 rupees for 100 grams and the most premium brand is probably 1200 rupees for 100 grams.

1:05:31But you will see that in a certain place there are maximum sales which is say about 200-220 rupees for 100 grams is the most standard price and maximum average selling price of that category and maximum sales are happening at that volume. so then on the basis I do my pricing suppose 200-220 average selling price so you will sell in 240 you will sell premium or you need maximum volume I will sell volume then you will price your product and how do you find your first 100 customers after deciding pricing after deciding price I decided to decide I decided to decide I did all the product I did the real game starts How will my first 100 customers come?

1:06:18I think your first customers are your friends and family. They genuinely want to support you in whatever you do. So when you launch a new business, make sure you make a WhatsApp message. That I am launching a business. This is the product I have launched. This is the thought process. This is the link to buy it. So, something will come from there. Second, you will make a page of your social media. You start posting it on that. start of the brand, ethos, reason to exist and in that way, do some performance marketing for that product for a very minuscule amount say 50 ,000 to see how it works okay, your rest will come from 50 products but then what will happen, what will happen, how much money will be, how many things matter 50 products are, so it's very expensive it's expensive, but at least you start the feedback loop that you can phone the consumer can get feedback from the consumer what's good, what's bad price, how's the product how's the value and this can continue 3-4 months so that you can get 1000 customers 2000 customers you can understand what your brand is what brand is what you are comparing what is reason to win and on that basis you can constantly tweak you can tweak your brand, you can launch the right products, you can change the packaging, you can fix the challenges So, as you can tell these challenges, customers, now I have a product sorted, where do I start selling?

1:07:57Is it quick commerce, my website or e-commerce? I think the first place where you list your products is your own website Because it's free, you can get it I don't know, it's not free, it's actually the most expensive channel. Why? And most effort-based channel because to set up yourself, effectively communicate, to take tech, to offset, to integrate with warehouse management systems, it's a lot of time-taking process, it's a lot of effort-based process. But, to start marketing engine for performance of meta and Google, your website is the most critical because your brand modern day catalog and modern day communication of your product it is only discovery from your website so when you learn performance you come to the website discover and then go to the rest of the website and buy so your website is the first channel where you should list your own products and have them set up and then you can do it on Amazon or Flipkart because it is online channels, it is easier to list but depending on your price point you can prioritize on different channels for example if you are doing a very affordable product say face wash, men's face wash then your largest channel probably will be flip cut and you will start with flip cut because quick commerce will not launch a new brand until proof of concept is not going to be done so in quick commerce there are only headliner issues is big there.

1:09:31This is a high inherent quality demand. Because you are a new founder and you are launching a new product. So quick commerce is not the best place. Quick commerce is not the best place. You will launch a new product from 12 to 18 months later. In the first website, Flipkart, you are doing a mens. If you are doing a affordable product, then Flipkart is a big channel. Then Amazon will be. And if you are slightly premium or premium genre of consumer, then Nike will be. But Nike will be easily broader will not take a product in starting. As long as Flipkart or Amazon starts with it, Nykaa doesn't take that product easily.

1:10:07Same quick commerce is also growing very quickly but it doesn't keep it so easily. So how can somebody convince a Blinkit or Zepto or Nykaa to put their products? I think the proof of the pudding is in the eating. In this case, if they get to know there are brand searches on their platform of a new brand that is coming in, they'll be super excited to list your product on their platform so inherent consumer demand create inherent consumer demand create the most first objective for a founder who is launching a product brand so you educate about the product through performance meta and google both identify the right consumer influencers use to communicate the right product and when the demand generation starts to increase your sales volume at all market places including your website and once that starts increasing searches start increasing on google trends once searches starts increasing consistently month on month searches on quick commerce will start increasing and once your repeat starts increasing quick commerce searches increases further so that's the time to push quick commerce companies do a pilot testing in a few cities push hard on these platforms make sure the sale is happening and then if it's successful you need to make it successful you are the founder you scale it across the country across all quick commerce channels Blinkit's by far the largest channel so targeting Blinkit first in quick commerce would be best because if it's largest channel the chances of you selling through in the pilot is much higher than other channels so focus on that and then kind of scale it on Swiggy, Zepto and Flipkart Minutes tell me marketing tactics brand searches Let's actually Break down marketing In simple words Okay Someone is making a D2C brand Specifically BPC And you tell me Your experience So Performance Influencer Content you do heavy Yes Very heavy content Very heavy content And then the fourth will be Let's just put it as Gorilla marketing Like extra Okay So what is it working in performance?

1:12:20I think in performance Spending a lot more money on single sqos is very important doing collab reels with influencers and running performance ads on that really works third making sure that you have multiple content pieces for single products to work and spending enough budget is very important if you spend very low budget it will not give you the return if you spend too much then you might not find enough So making sure that you spend a minimum of 8-10 ,000 rupees in one product in one day to really see an impact. And do it consistently over time because any product is registered in 6-9 months.

1:13:04So don't expect that on day zero you have a good reward. A good reward is a matter of time and reward alone is not the not-star. Don't see it. to make it look at the cost per acquisition and purchase so when you see the cost per purchase it will also map it because your objective is new customer acquisition which tells you the cost per purchase so any specific insight or type of content that works in performance I think collab rails with a B plus or A plus influencer who have an authority and a voice with a strong community really works on performance sites. So if you can convince that influencer to work with you and if the product works with them, that would really help you scale up the product.

1:13:57Organic content by them. Organic. Or like you will be dictating how the content will be. So any creator who is B +, A +, they are large creators. They build their own community based on their own voice. Authenticity is everything. no one wants fake content everyone can smell a paid content from far away and orchestrated content from far away so it is best to focus on their abilities of creating content and give them the freedom you might give them a small brief that this is what I want to highlight but let them do their job and let them create content however they want to create content that way the chances of success for the content significantly moves up and A plus category how big is it?

1:14:49A plus so I would say that followers are very irrelevant because that metric doesn't tell anything because if you have 17 million followers your engagement in every reel might just be 100k so it is very important to see the reach of every content that goes rather than the followers so I would say an A plus content and someone who is a million plus views on an average for their reel is an A plus content creator about 200 to 500 about say 200 plus is a B plus content creator and a 10k to a 200k is a C plus content creator and the rest are micro creators and how much would you pay a million plus consistent view creator I think it depends on the creator the creator's voice and how bigger range and average and how big of a Dotan's fan they are

1:15:51but range give me an average so I would break this into CPMs that what is the cost per view that we'd want to achieve and it could be closer to 80 pausa to a rupee okay 80 pausa but it's not authority cost in that way obviously you must be paying expand more premium for people who are authoritative absolutely so cpm at 80 paisa a very authoritative person won't do so on an average some people also might be a 40 paisa and some might be a 2 rupee exactly so on an average i would i would give that much and obviously if i have a million viewers i would prefer someone with higher authority because with scale and a sharper voice the impact on your brand will be significantly higher true and what have we seen influencer like coming to the next part skip performance and then influencer today's world micro nano macro or celebrity I think all of them works in tandem with each other micro is very important because today people follow community leaders who might have say thousand people looking out for their content but their impact on the thousand people will be very high so it is very important to layer every influencer on top of each other depending on the objective of what you're trying to do right there might be a c plus creator who has a very strong voice in sunscreens who is probably one of the most influential creators in sunscreens so i would work with that creator just because the impact on other community members other creators might be very high so i think defining what objective we have we need to make a list of influencers we can work with and then do that consistently over time to make sure that a lot of people in that genre register the brand.

1:17:53Tell me a question. 5 million plus creator who is authoritative in their field top 10 or 5 or 1 or whatever that creator or a celebrity which one would you choose for brand advocacy let's just not say one of a kind real or thing because in a real or one kind of engagement creator will definitely win. for an advocacy I would definitely choose a creator not a celebrity not really no because a creator has cult following for the voice they have and they will consistently keep on getting crazy engagement their followership will have to be cult to be consistently reaching that kind of levels and the classic example is Rebel like we worked with Rebel and the kind of impact she has on Gen Z's is phenomenal and because you're a Gen Z brand the impact will be phenomenal for us and that's why we believe that creators do have way more impact than just a celebrity and it's also the number of brands you endorse right because if celebrities endorse like 20 brands versus a creator really endorsing like less number of brands that has a way higher impact on business right and if a content creator becomes an advocate of the brand and consistently they generally like they generally need to love the product and they consistently talk about a product because they love it and they kind of keep on consistently talking about it through time of course people have a higher chance of getting convinced because the creator loves the product and that's why the impact will be way more but would you make a large size creator who loves your product plus his good culture brand ambassador creator brand ambassador brand ambassador creator or celebrity so so brand ambassador can be creator or celebrity right which one will you choose if you have an option creator creator why don't you choose creators then we will choose creators okay you are on your way to do it we will choose creators we like celebrities too as a brand but creators have a much stronger voice in the space that we exist and we talk to our audience through social media often right that's our core medium of outreach so influencers and creators who dominate that space are the ones who are more salient to my consumers and are much higher chances of influencing my consumers so I would go with creators per se and another thing is I think authenticity a lot of times celebrities don't look very authentic when they keep on endorsing brands so I think having boundaries on the number of brands you endorse is critical to feel authentic for creators if the creators are very very selective with the number of brands they are working with they might seem very very impactful like for example creator celebrity led brands would be very impactful because then they would be blocked for the category they would talk about the same product same category same brand for an extended period of time then they might be very impactful but like for like a one-off deal or like a like a one-year deal I would I would select a creator any day over a celebrity and would you want to lock a creator for a creator led series or like creator led product category for example let's say Dot and Key has today let's say sunscreen tomorrow just randomly making let's say Rebel based like Rebel Kid lipstick series I would do it I would do micro categories with one creator and the product has to be made in the choice of the creator and the brand so the creator has to be very involved in the making of the product so that she likes the product Rebel likes the product and then it launched in a way where Rebel feels very authentic to her and the brand feels it is quite aligned with the brand and the chances of success would be very very very high and would you pay more to some creator like Rebel who's highly influential in the Gen Z or a celebrity in making or celebrities already become big in the Gen Z space who would you pay more for becoming a brand ambassador I would pay more to someone who is very very high in engagement but you'd celebrity you wouldn't know like because the the followership of a celebrity is A on their positioning PR they've been seen as you can't touch them they're far away and a president set set that that I'm talking about typically women, men, whatever, right?

1:23:16They are like they are a very ultra beautiful person. They are flawless. They don't have even an acne or like any different skin tone, whatever. They're just like they look flawless. And they're the poster boys or girls for this XYZ brand. That's how celebrity endorsements are. So you buy it in the aspiration, in the awe that I can see or it's like it's like whatever do you think that is still more relevant than you lock in a creator and be like this is really authentic when you see good when you see homeless people are homeless and this person is authentic who would you pay more for to become a brand ambassador for let's say next two years there is like a layers of subjectiveness in who the celebrity is if the celebrity is like a complete A-lister with absolute mad following like Alia Bhatt or

1:24:20like say Shanaya she's got great skin she embodies a classic Gen Z consumer of Tottenky right so we thought that she would be the perfect face because she embodies the perfect consumer and that's why we felt that it was a great fit for both of us to work together and there's hope also that today you will get her steal her at a price which probably five years later would be unmatchable and untouchable absolutely and plus if we support her during this phase of her career then the relationship might last a lot longer and we are banking on her talent and her evolution into being probably and she's also being very cautious to choose you guys because she must be having array of options to go through because she is the next phase.

1:25:12So it's like it's both of you guys are like hand in hand going and backing. My question was more for not whether she's the right choice or no. I'm like established creator just the cult following here versus an in making star. Established creator would be more expensive or than in making star? Established creator. Creator would be more expensive. More expensive because they'll have more reach more impact. See I think it's ultimately a consistency game my brand is built on Instagram so I'd see the celebrities Instagram engagement and presence if that is much larger than than the creator then I would choose her but if the creator is much more impactful then I choose the creator for me it's it's simple maths and alignment with the brand if alignment with the brand is the same then I just go with impact got it interesting is there someone as a creator do you feel who's like large impact in the country very big at this point I think I love Rebel she's phenomenal and her engagement cult following like a very authentic voice I think she's phenomenal for a gen z consumer so nice so you work with her a lot quite often nice and this did any backlash or anything which happened with her does that stop you from investing with her as a brand I think in life there are many things unpredictable so if a creator has had a bad phase um and and they repent it and they come out and be vocal about it then we are happy to work with that creator uh so we were the first brand that worked with rebel after she was back nice so we are very clear if we like people and um they they are good to us and they are good individuals good humans and they have impact on the audience then we'll work with them nice so this it won't matter to you it won't matter we are like we trust the authenticity and intention of this creator and if we can see it through then we're gonna back them up absolutely very risky though sometimes for some people but I love that you back up and it's amazing I think until you take risks there is no reward so I don't even know I don't even know I don't know Here's my last question to you, okay?

1:27:34Which is, you got acquired, right? By Nika. Big brand, big money, having fun. Tell me, if someone is making a brand today, and they want to get at one point, their brand acquired, right? To get an exit and make more money. Like, somehow. What do you see these big brands in small startups? What are the three or four key things which they see? which makes a small brand acquisition ready or maybe makes a small brand very attractive for a large brand to acquire because they acquire it because Nike will have thousands of options or Unilever will have thousands of options why specifically 2 or 3 brands they bet for and then pick up one I think category leadership brands which will achieve very high market share and grow that brands will always be sought after versus someone who will have a little market share basically their revenues should be more than less categories fundamentally and should be a certain scale for example brands that get acquired typically need to be at least 100 trolls in revenue and a significantly higher market share in one category at least maybe two categories but not a lot of categories per se I think second authenticity if there are 10 brands in the market then will this brand stand out do this brand discipline maintained of doing a lot less but doing it much better what is the perception of the consumer about the brand what is the ratings reviews and more than everything else what is the founder the drive, hunger and skill set in which business will go 100-1000 can somebody reflect this or like depict this while they are building of course how do they depict it just by being focused on building just by how do they depict the rigor by your clarity of thought because founder has many options as a founder I have a single category or two categories I'm going deep and I'm going to make my business and I'm going to take a good market share in two categories there are some peers in my beauty category where they're doing hair care face care body care makeup so their revenue comes from all the way but from all the way revenue doesn't happen the revenue you can't defend because they're so many categories whereas whereas less categories are coming, you can defend it in the future.