How to Check a Car's Safety, Petrol vs EV Cars, and Business Opportunities | FO 327 Raj Shamani

0:00So a car with 5 star safety vs a car with doesn't have 5 star safety What difference is the difference between both of them? It's about the robustness of the structure. What we call as body in white. The metal structure of the car. How strong the structure is and how it is able to withstand the impact of a crack. 3 to 4 is almost double safety. And 4 to 5 is even higher safety. Can you guess in a day how many people die on Indian roads? In a year, there will be 700 deaths. 450 people die everyday on Indian roads. What are you talking about? Do you think sedan and SUV is a difference in safety?

0:34Where did this vision come from? That we leave petrol and diesel and do EV so that we take a big market share in a new place. By 2020, it was clear that the future of carbon-free emissions is EV. It was always seen as a new opportunity but very future-facing opportunity. Why EV makes more sense? Have you ever driven an EV? No car. You should drive it like a daily car. Driving becomes 10x easier, not 1x or 2x. Why? Because… If someone who is an entrepreneur and watching this, what are the opportunities they can spot in EV? Community charging is a very big thing. What was one feature with some other company launched and you wish you would have launched first?

1:18Tata's new cars have become so popular. Why do they win all safety awards? And how did Tata EV become a leader in the market? In all these strategies and Tata's overall journey, we have talked about today's guest with Vivek Shrivatsa, who is Tata Passenger Electric Mobility Chief Commercial Officer. He has told us about his meetings with Ratan Tata sir and what the outcomes and lessons he has got in the leadership of Ratan Tata sir. And how did Tata Motors turn around and road safety, EV adoption and customer-centric innovation create new legacy? This is about talking about today's podcast. So watch this episode till the end.

2:04But before you do that, Raja Shamani Clips and Raja Shorts go and subscribe to this big episode. So you get more insights in the short period. Enjoy the show.

2:21Have you met Ratan Tata sir? Yeah, couple of times. Fortunate to have been around him. What did you learn from him? I mean, one is his intense passion and love for automotive. You know, obviously when I met him, he was already quite out of the chairmanship, but still interested. I mean despite his health conditions he used to come and look at new cars look at it with so much love and fascination and then he used to ask the questions you know and in the questions you know how much he understands and how much deep he loves this category of automotive you know I was very fortunate to have met him maybe 3-4 times what is the most admiring thing you found in him humility humbleness you know never try to the body language itself is so humble you know which is a great lesson you know I mean you don't need to walk with your shoulders broad or head high to get respect you know you get respect purely because of the humility you know the fact that you keep everything inside contained and give a very approachable personal it's amazing you know true that's why that reference to God right you know many people almost treat him next to God I think that humility and ability to control your power your aura and show it in a very approachable manner it's amazing true it was my it was my dream to have him on a podcast he was on my list of course of my top guest who i want to and i really really like i got i got so sad and i tried everything i spoke to everyone and tried to get him but it was such the timing was such that my podcast started like two two and a half years ago and since last two and a half years ago he's not keeping his well like he was he was not keeping very well so so i got very close to one point of contact which i don't want to name but like someone who's very close to him and like that person told me that he would like i pitched a concept and according to the person he said that he told this concept to mr tata and he loved the concept but he can't do anything at this point because he's so sick that he's not doing any media interviews any podcast any appearance and it's not even nice of me to ask him to give time because he wants to spend like this time with like his just people and the work he's like passionate about he doesn't want to do yeah and i was like this i definitely i know obviously like i can understand but it was like one one missed thing like which i missed it was because it was So, yeah, it would have been a dream, not just for me, for like every viewer who's watching to have him on the show.

5:36But it's okay. We're going to make an independent podcast on his learnings one day. Just his learnings. And now it's happening with the legacy he has left. It's happening through you guys. Yeah. Like we recently did Starbucks CEO. Exactly. He would have given some inputs. Yeah. You can make an accumulation of all this. Exactly. so I'm gonna make like a whole group sari accumulation then gonna make a podcast from all of you guys and be like hey this is what we learned that might be better and the legacy lives beyond that is the legacy there are when you set up a dealership dealership set up licenses etc I'm sure that he will take a local dealer but he will take a start-up company but he will take a license something happens happens there are some agreements so there are some agreement licenses something is there and the government officer is not signing because he is expecting some sort of let's say a bribe or anything you know like let's say it's a 100 crore project and this will be 1 lakh because it will be very small so would you hold the project for a year or 1 lakh not 2 and that 1 lakh can be a 100 crore but Tata group has never bribed of course we will put all kind of pressure on that person saying why it should take one year why are you going to excel?

6:58why are you not going to do it? Legal power Not even legal Normal administrative power that you have a file on your desk that you have a file that you have a job You know these kind of questions I mean when you don't want to go in that direction you are very strong in that direction You will go and completely say that you have a job you can ask from the right So when your direction is clear how you want to approach, you are very strong. And then you build your strength somewhere else. Yes. I mean, I mean, everyone knows that if you have a Tata Motors file, you should have to remove it. You can't do anything else.

7:39I mean, Tata Group level file. So, I think that is very clear. If there's anything, let's remove it. Otherwise, there will be more pressure. You know, I think that has been established. And pressure from the application, files. Exactly. question absolutely and of course the group is big probably you know that also works we are also asked you know project delay kiyo horah hai tab ham bata deen to us pe hi aayga na ki minh is department pe file atka ho haya as a bol diya bol bhi sakte hai we can we can create some sticky situation for that administration as well lovely I started eyeing Harrior yeah that used to be the car I wanted to buy like it was my life turned around after 2020 to then it's like from 2019 to 2021 it stopped yeah I just stopped looking at cars or anything at all but 2019 I wanted Harrier the black color Harrier I really liked even now it's a giant car like a really good yeah mean and mean looking car yeah it's very popular even now we sell about 30 % of our sale is the black Harrier yeah out of all the Harriers out of all the Harriers so they used I really liked it like Harrier was it looked like the car I want to drive like it's like I can't afford let's say a land cruiser or like something or like a range rover I can't afford that so what's going on but Harrier is on a GLR platform yeah I know that it's a discovery like that's used to be like it's a discovery platform you know okay It's exactly the same previous generation discovery platform.

9:30So this is Harrier get MBU launched. You were there. You just entered. So Harrier, you planned the marketing? You were there? Yeah. I mean, I joined in 2016. Harrier was 2019. By then we had, you know, significantly moved up as a brand. Yeah. Harrier also we launched. Yeah. In 2000. What was the turning point for Tata? I think turning point was 2020. 20 you know a lot of just before covid i would say we we launched four or five products between 16 and 20 but in 20 we updated all our products together that was a point when the industry also went into a bs6 emission norms actually which was a big step we took an opportunity to change the design of the cars and upgrade all the cars together and suddenly customers started seeing you know a brand which had very aspirational cars the other turning point is when we started talking about safety you know nexon which we spoke about india's first five star gn cap rated car five star gn cap is basically the safest you can get from a safety point of view okay worldwide explain GNCAP is you know a private organization which rates cars in terms of in terms of they undertake all kind of crash tests and then they give points to every car they do it across cars internationally and they are very they are neutral they can go pick up any car from any company and crash it only thing the company needs to pay the price of the car to them you know so we had taken it as as a you know challenge to see how robust our cars were you know and then initially we undertook the zest there was a model called zest the zest it was submitted and we came with a four star rating which really motivated us and you know kind of encouraged us to go even higher then with the nexon we said let's go for five star which was the industry best nice and at that point of time nobody imagined that a car made and designed in india could achieve five star which is like the global best in safety so that really changed so nexon achieved that in 2018 actually so car with five star safety versus a car with not 5 star safety like doesn't have 5 star safety what difference is if both are stuck or fell or crashed I can't explain it simplistically like that but it's double it is not 3 plus 1.4 3 to 4 is almost double safety and 4 to 5 is even higher safety you know in simple layman's terms you know not being technical but like what is there a feature ki ismein airbag extra hai is it ki no it is fundamentally it is about the robustness of the structure what we call as body in white the metal structure hota gadi ki to it is how strong the structure is and how it is able to withstand the impact of a crash so there are certain key points in the structure where which are strengthened use the right material aise nahi ki baut bahri loha laga do or safe actually weight is counterproductive to safety because more weight means more inertia right more momentum so it is a fine balance between strength and weight okay and in the right places also so obviously so very interesting for you to know Tata Motors is which has an in-house crash test facility so that helps us a lot that we can test internally it is like preparatory exam before the board exam before we send it to GNCAP we ourselves know what the mark is going to be what the number is going to be I think that really made customers realize that Tata Motor cars not only look good but they have the engineering prowess to deliver safest cars fortunately or unfortunately India is the world's leader in deaths on the road I don't know if you saw the latest article can you guess in a day how many people die on Indian roads a wild guess two people all India death

14:15450 people die everyday on Indian roads yeah that is how unsafe our roads are kya baat kare hai 450 is like a big number it is everyday through accidents or some other means on the road on the road 450 people are dying everyday that's how bad our roads have become but as an insider of some like a large car company do you think sedan or SUV safety difference no nothing zero I mean depends if a car is safe then both the car can be made as safe as the SUV and the SUV can be made as safe as a car but in market generally are SUVs more safer. And I am talking about crash safety you know. Yeah crash safety.

15:04But if you talk about ground clearance you know. Then definitely ground clearance is lower. So you will always have a risk of grounding it. So do you think Indians pay for safety? Safety is definitely top priority now for Indians. They know very well. Will they pay a premium? I don't like I said I don't think they are being asked to pay a premium. I mean our cars now are in the same ballpark as any other manufacturer but they are getting safety as an additional benefit but I think awareness of safety has gone up definitely you know people start saying that if I rather buy a safer car than buy a car filled with other features it's not toh ho raha hai okay so people are still at least are considering if there are two same cars so which is more safety or features they are prioritizing safety safety has become a larger reason to buy it's not like I'll buy a piece of plastic just because it has more features absolutely, that will change earlier it was like the same fancy features, it will get safety safety, it didn't have much people didn't know that there's a factor called safety that my car can actually make me safer that's not so much what my question was how in European nations, Volvo has said that they chose to build a brand that safety is equal to Volvo.

16:33Like they stood by it for years. Do you think and after that, some of them take premium. It's not like as far as I have seen, you can compare that car with other cars which are much cheaper and have similar features. Correct. But then the additional premium and the brand that they've built is like we are safer. So people don't have the same car on the other car. Maybe it's the same or not. you don't know people are not even comparing because their trust has gone so up absolutely right I think that's the journey we are in when people have a status probably after 40-50 years we are going in that direction probably after another 10 years we'll be able to do that no but is your focus to be named as the safety equivalent to be honest as a marketeer I'm not I'm not sure that alone is enough in India the the

17:32proposition of safety alone is it good for a brand is I am not sure in India it was good enough in Europe where the value of life is much higher in India I think accident happened to someone else I don't have it we always feel that

18:03we link all these things to safety you know the safety the importance of safety in an accident is not understood right you know accident can happen to anybody driving skill awareness role It's not a problem. It's not a problem. So, safety alone. So, that's why safety alone is not going to be a thing. Safety alone might not be as of now. Hopefully, it should change in the future. Because as our highways are becoming bigger, more and more people coming on the road. People realize that it's not how well you drive or how good the road is. It is your prevention again. It's like insurance. All of us pay premium for insurance, right?

18:48Yeah. Safety is like insurance. True. You know, I feel her country three stages through consumerism, consumer products and just like, so when country gets money, it starts when they want to get money, then they want to get just things. Bare minimum. So they go for the cheapest. Correct. Then country goes with a face where they say that I have the aspiration. So then it's status. And then when that need is full, then the country reaches a point where it's like, joh meri sab se important value ya need hai me us per jau singular value singular value then it becomes quality ki achcha may ko safety important hai ki driving experience important hai ki luxury important hai ki it can be anything I think that's a very good read by you I think just today may kahi paad raha ta ki jab ek family ka income saal me 30 lakh ke upar jab chala jata hai unka mindset bilkul change ho jata hai ye joh transition stage 1 to stage 3 2 so 30 lakh is still I would say stage 2 yeah suddenly impulse buying is a lot of people are looking at restaurant just on the left side and not on the right side these are all subtle changes so which is I think India is in that transition from stage 1 to stage 2 maybe in 6 years stage 3 will start now we are stage 2 stage 2 the mass of the country Aspiration is like a big Correct Of course a lot of people Are in stage 3 as well You know I think India has got Among the highest Billionaires in the world But That is a very niche thing But bulk of the country Is moving to stage 2 I would say Yeah So that's what I feel So we were first Cheapest pay Lowest point Just get it When the phone comes We get it We get it for 2000 We get it for 2000 We get it for 2000 Chinese phone We get it for 2000 Touch it for 2000 We get it for 2000 We get it for 2000 Then now we are like okay.

20:48Now I have a status phone. It should not only just say I have a phone. It should be like it's a status. It's a brand. And then you will go to like a specific feature or a specific name. Then I'll say I want to focus on photography. I want the best photography. Yes. Because then what is my need? Because then you realize it. Because status at after a point it doesn't matter to you that much. That's when brand consciousness heightens you know. Then that's where brands start paying a bigger role. I know that if I got this brand, I will get the best in photography. Similar in other areas of life as well, you know.

21:24Everywhere. Whether it's travel or luxury or automotive in anything, you know. It can be as simple as fashion. Brands start associating with that singular feature that you're talking about. Okay, talking about EV now. Where did this vision come from? And at which point? pair i think yeah we may be petrol diesel wali cars we have lost some battle focus na petrol diesel ko chhoľke ev pe karte hai ta ki hum a new jaghe pe bada market share le le where did this focus come from see it was never either or thought yeh jo focus yeh jo souch hai joh either electric or petrol diesel was never the thought okay it was always seen as a new opportunity but very future facing opportunity by 2020 it was clear that future of carbon free emissions is EV when it's going to happen we don't know but we'll have to start somewhere

22:30but we had to start and we thought let us start it was a combination of the vision of our chairman plus the ability of you know then head of electric vehicles, Silesh, who is now MD. And the province of the engineering team who said that we can try and do it. So it's a combination of vision, ability to execute, push to execute, how to get the right size product, right sizing. This is a right size product made. Not too techie so that you will take five years to make it. Not too basic that it won't be reliable. perfect product done in the right time not too long so that's how it came about like i said it made many of us within the company also convert into believers do you want to compare an ev with all the other cars yeah do you want to do it why ev makes more sense i mean firstly i think it's long term it is less emissions for me that is the most important it is but the way ev is made yeah it's not that like i said it i mean it has already proved that uh see evs are longer lives and that's the one thing we should remember so by default whatever carbon i mean emissions has happened at the time of manufacturing gets uh negated over a longer life second is emission also is zero uh like i said earlier even if the power is from you know unsustainable sources today it's only a matter of two three years before power generation will rapidly become greenified you know that's something the government is working on yeah we can't wait for that time for it to become then introduce evs so for me the first thing is the environmental sustainability aspect and this purely my opinion second is evs are the digital version of driving you know they have you ever driven an EV?

24:33No, not yet. You should. I've driven one. Sorry, I've driven one. Just for like test drive of one of my friend's car. You should drive it like a daily car. You'll realize that driving becomes 10x easier. Not 1x or 2x. Why? Because it is so easy to drive. I mean, there's no first of all the comfort. You don't hear the engine noise, the vibrations. It's very digital. second is the power is instant you know you just touch the accelerator you get power so when you move in in i mean in mumbai traffic you don't need every time class declass or every time that one or two millisecond gap in terms of gear engagement is not there so you are just able to navigate so much easier in traffic without sound you just used to get that very digital kind of a feel so 10x easier to drive in traffic and 10x more comfortable because there's no sound vibration heart these are for me the three big reasons other thing is that other peripheral reasons are that evs are software driven they get far more features than compared to ice vehicles other thing is you can get all this soft man features through software update it's more like a gadget you know so i think those are the reasons why i started driving an ev two years back which one do you drive nexon you know our dal chawal product i would say but but does it also have a cost benefit analysis like have you done the cost benefit last season i don't do it much because you know for me it doesn't matter so much but of course it's very very cheap compared to a petrol or diesel yeah again it's because at least at least 8x cheaper at least eight times but initially you end up paying more but that's changed now completely you know today you get the way ev prices have come down in the last one year it's dramatic for the price of a petrol tell me a nexon petrol and nexon ev i mean i don't want to compare it that way but you get nexon evs uh around there are petrol nexons at the same price as the nexon ev so sometimes i mean it's just earlier it always used to be 20 percent higher 25 percent higher same that is the case with the punch or with the curve you know so price parity as we call it and i'm not even comparing nexon petrol with nexon ev you have all the other competitors in the compact suv space nexon ev is available where other petrol or diesel compact SUVs are available so this price parity of EVs has happened in the last two three months yeah you know so we think that we are just going to see a big boom now but there's always a question it's the range everybody is afraid that if I buy an EV where will I charge in middle of the road if I have to go from one city to another in a petrol car I can take the diesel car I live in Indor overnight journey I can't take my EV you can because now EVs are I mean we've launched a curve now we've enhanced the range of the Nexon but how many range is it?

27:52I want to go 600 kilometers yeah 600 kilometers you have a lot of charging stations in between across the country now of course it's not as much as petrol stations. So that's the growth that we need in terms of EV charging facility. But on the other hand, you have apps. Today our own Tata.EV, Aira app. If you log in, you can make a plan. Let's say 8.30 in the evening. And the app will do the planning for you. It will calculate how much charge you have, how much charge you need to reach Indore, what are the four or five places you can charge in between. And it will also tell you ki kaunse chargers free hai jab aap paunch rahe ho.

28:37It will tell you that koji or gaadi charge kar raha hai ya aap go to the next charger or how much time you need to charge. All that is going to happen. Of course, the other thing, to be honest, a charging might take you at least half an hour. So charging speeds also will go up. You know, probably in the next one year, one and a half years, all the chargers will get upgraded to faster charging. It will come to a situation where in 15 minutes you can get a top up for 200 kilometer you know so then it just goes so but even now you know with a curve you can do 400 kilometers non-stop you know so let's say Mumbai Puna up and down is a reality you know Bhopal Indore is how much kilometers Bhopal Indore is same 200 see one way you can easily 190 or something if I remember you know beach for me it's like 3 or 3 and a half 3 and a half when you're having poha you can charge it also you know I'll tell my charging team to put a charger there next time when you go but 200 kilometers 400 kilometers real world possible with curve which is a 20 lakh product you know and 20 lakhs you have other petrol diesel SUVs also so I think we are just on the surface of you know the other thing also is that the main stress is will I find a charger I don't think the stress is about how far I can go you know so that will I find a charger will dramatically improve in the coming days today is you can do Mumbai to Bangalore, Mumbai to Chennai drives comfortably you have enough of chargers especially if you go to south of India there are much more chargers you know and very good charging experience also you can charge your car in 15-20 minutes and then leave you can have breakfast or coffee on the way so i think it's only a question of time do you think battery swapping will become a reality see it is not seen as an eco-friendly approach and it's too complicated batteries are heavy and putting it removing it out also is not the easiest thing so I don't think it's a sustainable way to go ahead and hence I don't think it'll be so you'll never be able to carry extra charging no I mean there's no point in carrying charging you know like if I don't have like an extra battery type sort of something there are some solutions coming up where you can take a change put it and then I can change put it but you can have some accessories are there where you carry a 10 kilowatt battery with you so in case you run out of charge you plug in that battery and give charge like your you know portable chargers you get a portable charger for here it is 20 ,000 milliamp there it is 10 kilowatt you know that's only difference but those are not because those are heavy you know a 10 kilowatt battery you need wheels to take it you know so that's a problem that is a problem so but that you see it'll get like i said the only solution is how far How far are we from the solution of having EVs?

31:54Really? Yeah. It'll be that fast. Every petrol bank will get a charger in the next two to three years, I would say. Because oil marketing companies are going. That is their future. Yeah. You know, when the industry is going to change to EV, they'll sell lesser and lesser oil. So, you know, that's how they look at it. And recently, Nitin Ghatkari, sir, said that he wants to end subsidiary on EV vehicles soon. I mean we don't have any subsidies right now going at all it's only the state level subsidies which are being isn't it cheaper for a novel customer to buy an EV vehicle differential GST which is not a subsidy actually it is like you know Cup might have a different GST to the table it's like that how much is it what's the difference between EVs are at 5 % GST petrol cars are at But depending on the kind of cars, it's anything between 48 to 50, 52%.

32:53That's a massive, massive, massive thing. But it's not a subsidy. It's not a subsidy. But that's a way to... It's sort of like some way of compensation. When you sell an EV, the government doesn't need to import fuel to run it. That is a big difference. What they save in fuel subsidy, they give in GST difference. We spoke about China, right? In China, the big push has been from government. They've been giving huge subsidies. Even in US, all the EVs get subsidies. See, you want to rapidly accelerate adoption of a technology, you have to make it affordable. So I won't say in India, it is still a GST difference, not a subsidy.

33:36Subsidy is when you buy a car, you are given 1 lakh. It used to happen, right? Delhi had that Maharashtra had that even now some other states have it that is a subsidy which is over and above the GST currently it is a differential GST item depending on you know if that ends yeah that will be a problem it should not end because it's a different category you know it's like if the government wants to move the country in one way they have to ensure maintain it for a long time yeah maintain it for long you don't see that changing anything i hope not yeah but you can never affirmatively uh say that but it is in everybody's good the government wants country to go ev you know manufacturers of ev also they still don't have the economies of scale right also the amount of localization from possible in evs are not as much as ice yeah the more you localize the better cause.

34:40So that support is required for the category to grow. Plus we spoke earlier that price parity is so important and you can achieve price parity only with some help from the government. So it is, I think it's like you have to nourish a growing child. Do you think you guys will enter EV bikes? No plans as of now. It's a different industry. because bikes is a big market it's a big market but it needs very different kind of capability a lot of i mean a lot of management bandwidth again margins are not easy to come by so i don't think right now we're looking at it right now what are your plans like what's the future look like we just have to continue to convince customers that ev is the most sustainable relevant technology of the future it is the safest most comfortable way to drive continue to start making reliable products i mean continue to make reliable products establish the technology as a stable tech in people's mind you know i think they still look at it as a very small nascent technology not as a mainstream tech not yet so that is a journey i think that will happen in the next one one and a half years and in next five years what's the kind of market share you guys expect to more than market share i would say we want to achieve about 30 percent of our sales through currently we are at 12 we want to move it to 30 in next five years in five years um it all i mean the pv side also is growing but we want to grow much faster on the ev side i think also working with all the charging provide operators you know you have a lot of startups putting up chargers you have the government putting up chargers through the oil marketing companies working very well with them you know see one of the advantages we have is we have data of our cars you know where all they are going where they are charging which are the charging hot spots let's say if if you know there are i have data on how many evs tata evs are doing indoor to bhopal every day i have the data i know exactly most of them how many where they prefer to charge because they're charging there yeah so this kind of information we are you know sharing free of cost with the government with all the startups saying that boss this is a place where if you put a charger you will get high usage you know so we are we could charge money for it we are not we are giving the data so that people start putting chargers in the right place customer is benefited because they get charges there those companies are benefited because the usage is quite high and we'll be benefited because the technology is being accepted infrastructure is getting built so that net net is going to be positive for the whole area that we'll continue to be committed on sharing our data to grow the charging infra if someone who's an entrepreneur and watching this what are the opportunities they can spot in ev which you guys see probably as some gaps or the missing spots so that some entrepreneur can come up and partner with you guys probably from a small scale to large scale i'm open to hearing like multiple opportunities i think charging infrastructure definitely something we can look we already getting a seeing a lot of startups coming in that space many of them are restricted because of bandwidth There are players who play in only one region of the country because to expand, you need more management bandwidth.

38:21So charging is one good opportunity. More and more on the EVs, you'll start seeing apps coming in, in the car. I spoke about how Amazon is already there. Park Plus is coming. You don't need to have a tag there. Your car has Park Plus. you're going to get google i mean upi also in the car so that you don't need to take out your phone and scan as you pass by that payment will be made you know i mean this is just immediate two three years down the line there's no end to how much apps can get into the car and work you know so i think this entire app infrastructure you know how to make the driving much more easier will become a big place.

39:10These are big opportunities you see. Apps and charging. Yeah. And you don't see big players coming into this? Into apps and charging? I mean, big players are already there. Tata Power is already there in the charging sector. And many of them are already fairly big, you know, these startups. So, oil marketing companies getting into charging is a very big thing. They won't allow another player to come and put their charger. Exactly. It will be a BPCL charger there. It will be a, you know. So then it doesn't leave like a lot of opportunities for startups. There are because. Very few. Because if the large mafia is coming into this.

39:50No, but the opportunity is within the cities, you know. See, today anybody who buys an EV will want to have a home charger. So he needs to have a dedicated parking for his car to put a home charger. but I think 70 % of car buyers do not have dedicated parking space they just park by the roadside or wherever possible how will they charge so community charging is a big thing in the future if I know that in Anderi West around where we are 500 meters away I have a bank of 4-5 chargers I'll buy an EV I don't need a charger at home so that community charging is a very big thing. So highway charging I mean long drive you must be going two times three times in a year but you are going to charge within the city every week.

40:43So the opportunity for CPU charge provide operators is more in the city. Every locality put a bank of five chargers you will get start getting but then but then let's say a local oil station or a gas station they can also put it they can also put it like a BPCL will put it they will put it Indian oil gas HP gas the idea is in the future you will have lot more I mean the space required is first of all much lower in putting somewhere close by you know and if you're charging a bank is much closer than a petrol bunk you know there are not really so many petrol banks also around us you know we go there and big thing is you're going to the bunk and coming back is a big work whereas here you can just put it every lane can have like Every lane can have four or five.

41:33That's the way it'll develop. And that's where the small startups can enter and then actually become a big player. In the corner of the lane, you'll have chargers also. That's how we're looking at. Interesting. I was comparing India, US and China in terms of cars and our per capita income. So it was US main her 1.2 logo ke pass is equals to one car. so it's like almost everybody has a car more than one car more than one car in China there's 5 people so for every one car there's 5 people maybe a little more now I would say this is 2024 data which I was reading so in US there's 1.2 people in China there's 5 people in China there's 45 people in India so do you do you see that growing and reaching to a level of five definitely uh with the kind of road infrastructure and the kind of you know gdp increase we are seeing uh it will happen also auto industry is one of the industries where the cost it has been we have been challenging cost a lot if you will see relative cost between what a car has grown to what other industries have grown it's been fairly stable.

42:56I mean maybe 15 years back you can get a car for 2.5 lakhs. No you can get a car for 3.5 lakhs. You know. But look where income levels have gone. You know. But the same car which you used to get for like let's say 5 lakhs today you get it for 10 lakhs. I mean it's not exactly the same car because it has different engine. The same name of the car. Name of the car. But it's not the same car at all. Because the engines are more advanced. much more fuel efficient lot more safety parameters like I'll give you an example of let's say one of your cars if you want to put it like a Range Rover because that's a luxury car so the Range Rover which you were able to buy even five years ago that same Range Rover you're not able to buy at the same price today that's not the way to look at it because there is a certain I mean on one side brands as they become more familiar the automotive industry always makes the cars bigger more feature oriented and it keeps going up but if you look at the bottom you know what is the entry level car cost in 2010 if i'm in the market to buy the cheapest car possible uh because i want to upgrade from my two-wheeler what is the car how much is the affordability 2 lakh rupees 2.5 lakhs now it's hardly 20 30 percent difference so that's the other way to look at it no but same the car is popular is that it I mean yes because in average I'm talking a brand upgrade has to happen right for example even if it's small like let's say because you guys have changed your cars exactly that's the point because you've changed cars I'm not talking about EV change the brand But if you want to continue the same brand, which is the best way to do it.

44:47And many of the international manufacturers do it very well, especially the Japanese. When you get the next generation of the same car, it has to be better than the previous generation. So automatically the size changes, the features change, engine changes. So over a decade, two decades, you will see that the car has become much larger. Engine has become much larger. Features are much larger for the same nameplate. And hence the cost also goes up. What was one feature with some other company launched and you wish you would have launched first? I mean, we have launched it now, but maybe automatic transmission.

45:22Maybe we could have been faster to the market, you know, embraced it much faster. You didn't expect India to go from manual to automatic this soon? So fast. It also needed a lot of investment, I would say. Now we are catching up, you know, we are catching up very fast. but maybe 10 years back if we had gone wholeheartedly into automatic it would have worked you know so India is India has gone like post pandemic automatic transition transmission we did have but not in the way the customer wanted you know we had something called AMT and not the way customer wanted I mean there I would I mean there are different technologies of automatic and the way they have transitioned through it was very fast.

46:12So maybe we could have embraced it much earlier. We introduced AMT transmission in 2017. But maybe we should have done it a little earlier is my point. There's a question which bothers me usually. And this is purely based on the perception of people who have spoken to regarding car. There's a whole cultural acceptance that our Indian made cars are inferior. Why? I mean, mainly it is because of the number of years we've been making cars, you know. And when I say cars, proper cars, it is definitely a field where age, a number of years of manufacturing is associated with technical problems. It is changing a lot, especially with EVs.

47:07And I think even the mindset of customers are changing a lot today you have to both the Indian manufacturers in the top five you know so it is changing for sure for much part of this calendar year Tata Punch was the number one selling car in the country you know so I think it is dramatically changing you know in terms of acceptance of Indian manufacturers as being as good as them safety also played a big part you know when we said that we achieved five star then they suddenly realized that boss this is like world-class manufacturer so it is changing a lot but we still have that feeling that just because of the manufacture when international manufacturers are supplying cars across the world they have much more experience in making different kind of technologies they do have a wider spectrum of powertrains etc they have access to you know different universities from where they take the best students so osab hey i think those are more circumstantial and geography driven than anything to do with national nation of origin and nation of origin association with prowess is changing rapidly rapidly especially in india you know and i think the more people see you know today we are making semi high speed trains in india you know which was not possible we are making aircraft in india now so i think in the next four five years that belief that we can't make the best in india will go away completely it's already going away but other circumstantial and geography oriented thing like i said in terms of access to best of talent skill access and exposure to international markets that will take some time and I think but India is the future I mean in the next decade two decades I think that will also change yeah so you feel that it's only because bhaar ki companies ka naam zahada hai aur wo pehle aay the aur hunhone kaam karna start kia baut kuch dek chuk hai in terms of experience that's why exposure but more and more it's becoming that it can be as much a disadvantage as an advantage why to change legacy processes legacy so they are not fast and agile they are not at all fast and agile but you guys are also comparatively very big large Tata processes code of conduct I mean code of conduct I just use the word but relatively we are much more we can be much more agile and as a culture Tata Motors is highly risk taking if you look back at every single car we made right from suddenly we were you know we were making commercial vehicles you come with a tata sierra which is you remember the sierra you don't you know it's well before your time it was in 1995 or so i was not even born there so if you can just google it later you'll see it was first india's first lifestyle suv you know which had a 360 degree view those days then you came and then there was a tata safari which was launched then we launched the indica which was sumo also but i mean the kind of risk-taking ability that tata motors has saying that we will give the indian consumer something which is extremely different from what he has seen but still does the basic job you must have heard of safari right tata safari the first again you see very popular very popular car nano i mean all of us know how much of innovation went into nano on the other side you know on one side you have a safari which push the envelope in terms of technology performance nano is still seen as a benchmark template for you know frugal manufacturing even now if you see in terms of design innovation nexon was a completely different looking product you know you must have seen duster if you compare a duster with the next one next one looks like a you know a Porsche kind of a rear you know we benchmark that so we I think Tata Motors has that drive for innovation never to give if somebody wants a you give him a B which does the job of a A also but also looks different you know that's how we have always approached so that'll hold us stable in the future fair but still we are not one and two like Indian brands are not rank one rank two like I said it's a journey and sometimes the objective is not to be number one number two it can be different compare an Indian customer with a customer of let's say Middle East what difference in Middle East or Indian customer firstly he plans to own a product for a longer time you know if you take a car in mind you have four to five years minimum or more there probably maximum they think of a year and then they'll sell it off and many people used to buy it on lease also you can keep changing your car anytime that's the mindset plus the overall place also is like that as long as you have a job there you have a visa then you're allowed to leave even if you change your job you're allowed to leave and come back you know when your visa gets renewed so sabka isa approach hai temporary attitude see let me enjoy now i don't know how long it's going to last you know that's the mindset overall i think it's it's a different kind of place i'm not running down dubai at all you know it's i think it's become quite a haven for expats if you want to enjoy life have a peaceful life it's the best place but for business it is very different from a developing market like india you know probably in Dubai the market mindset has not changed in 10 years but in India like we were saying before affordability or you know lowest cost is when you go for an alto or 800 or let's say the cheapest phone etc but now it's the other side you know customer wants more and more you know now we are a value for money market yeah money for value market you give me value i'll pay money now earlier it was completely cost low cost cost centric or low cost market i was speaking to one of these guys from an expert in the car industry who sells like second-end cars and has studied a lot about car dealerships and he told me that no car dealership makes money in long run every car dealership loses money it's a very capital intensive business where only the rich person can invest in this and then just it's the status game so they afford to be rich like it's not like you can make a lot of money through dealerships do you believe in this I don't so dealerships do make money of course you know nobody is in in a long run like not because today like your run is going great so in the last 3-4 years Tata dealership must have made shit tons of money yeah I mean it is relatively a long term retail game not like traditional retail where it is much slower because same issue when it's a capital intensive industry so very yeah so dealer stock holding is high you need large showrooms to be able to display more number of cars you need service centers which also needs more space you need bays with lifts and all that so investment is high but car dealers make money how much amount of money but over a long period of time of course you need to run it well you know you can't just leave it to somebody because it's complex you know so it's a full time business it's not like a side business you can have it's a full time job it's got all the complications of running a larger company you have hugely manpower intrinsic operations which is the front line sales customer facing you have deep financial aspects where you have to manage your money hold inventory hold inventory service part technical aspect is there then you know you have to manage large areas of land you know to stockyard you have the service center your dealership so it's quite a complex business then you have to sell a lot of non-vehicle business you know you have to sell insurance accessories finance so it's a end-to-end kind of a business game, even a small car dealership has multiple streams.

55:58It is not that I will sell only cement and that's my only thing, you know. Thank you so much for spending that. My pleasure, Raj. Thank you, sir. Thank you for spending too much time. 3.40? Yes, sir. In local language, Hindi or local language, I think they give trust in a lot of high importance. So they are more loyal as audience towards any product. I've seen in a small village where only 10 ,000 people live. In the 10 ,000, the guy will come and he'll say, I should have a cell. Yeah, the other cell is maybe cheaper but he wants the billy cell because he trusts that. That's a good insight. Thank you so much for watching this episode until the end.

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57:14Until next episode, keep figuring out.

57:20Thank you.