How to Earn Money from Credit Cards: Benefits, Offers & Risks | Sandeep Ghosh | FO440 Raj Shamani

40:56common offers and benefits that people tend to like and consume. So we were talking about best credit cards. So we'll talk about that. tell me the best credit card for business best credit card for personal best and best like let's say the most exclusive card which Visa has and tell me all the perks of that if you had asked my wife this question she has a different set of preferences so first I'll talk about them so my wife is a big fan of shopping on various e-commerce websites Amazon not the only one and therefore for people like her or my daughters who buy a lot on Amazon, Flipkart, Myntra, Nike, etc.

41:50etc. like I said many of these platforms have co-brand cards which they issue with a bank and in those cards The reward system is very simple in terms of cashbacks and specific offers on their platform if you use it on Amazon. But you also get some offers if you use it outside Amazon and so on and so forth. So, you know, the Amazon ICICI card has nearly 5 million plus cards that have been issued. to date and is one of the most successful co-brands. In that way, when you go to the US, one of the most popular cards in the US is the Costco card. Because Costco in America is very, very popular. There you can buy whatever you want, the price points are very, very good.

42:59best value for money and the visa costco card is very very popular in america just as the visa and icici bank amazon card is in india so for people who have shopping and shopping on e-commerce sites as a top area of interest or passion then those work very well okay and Flipkart, Tata New they have also got a co-brand card with Visa and another network and that's also become very popular Tata New card has become very popular so shopping is that for shopping I look at overall rewards and what can I get for those reward points by way of travel related benefits because I said before that travel is not just part of my job but it is also my favorite hobby, my interest my passion in life and therefore I always look for cards where I can maximize the value and the offers and benefits when I am traveling so in no particular order this is an interesting card which is a dual co-brand and this is the first card in India where it's very common to see a co-brand card which has one airline one bank and the network this has two airlines British Airways and Qatar Airways so can I see this?

44:48absolutely

44:52you can yeah so it has two airlines and you can accumulate Avios points which actually work across British Airways and Qatar Airways or you can redeem the reward points of the card for Avios which can be used on both airlines but you can then pick depending on which of these two airlines you use more you can pick a status match with either of these two airlines but this card is that it is a co-brand with two airlines in the same card which I am told is the first of its kind in India and potentially very rare if not the first of its kind in the world okay okay it's very common like I said one airline co-brand but two airlines and this thing.

45:46So what will it be What will be the advantage if you have a card? And then I will fly with Qatar Airways and British Airways. So, what difference is a normal card? So, the reward points are quite rich. When you sign up for the card, you get a certain number of AVOS points as soon as you sign up. When you renew it after one year, you get another chunk of AVOS points. if you are spending on travel and on the airline you get additional rewards and like I said you know I travel a lot and I travel often by British Airways so for me this was a good card to have there was a point in time when my one daughter was in US the other one went to UK so I used to often buy them tickets on these airlines so this worked well for me totally contrasting that something very different this is the first co-brand card that Taj hotels came up with.

47:02And I've been a very loyal Taj customer. And basically, this gives not only discounts at Taj restaurants, it not only gives access to the Taj lounge, it gives access to the Taj chambers for free yeah certain number of times a year there are some caps on that but Taj lounge Taj chambers restaurants in Taj hotels a certain number of room nights free but certain at a discount so a whole host of benefits from Taj and because I'm Anyway, a loyal customer with Taj, it works well for me. So this is a Taj. What's the price of this card? Like what's the annual fee that you pay? So many of these very, very specific cards do come with a fee.

48:04The Taj card has a fee in the vicinity of about a lakh of rupees. So these are not free of cost. A lot of people don't want to pay any kind of fee for a card. For them, then this is not the card. for them if they don't want to pay any fee that's fine but like i said there are really some very very exclusive benefits on this card like the use of chambers and the lounge so you know if you really ascribe some value to that and the discount in the restaurants and the one or two room nights that you're getting free then that one lakh is more than offset or compensated but like i said It's different courses for different people.

48:51This is a very interesting card. This is a card which really focuses on experiences. Okay. And this is the first time that, you know, a media group has come up with a co-brand card. and actually the metal used in this card Raj this was part of the printing press of the of Times of India so the first thousand cards of this co-brand they used the metal of the press from which Times of India was printed so again something little unique about this and what do you get in it? exclusive cash times black again they have a wonderful app and you can go and see a lot of things that are there but even the launch of this card Raj it happened at the gateway of India in Kolaba and Shahid as far as I know there's hardly been one or two brands that have actually had access to the gateway of India to launch their product I believe some fashion brand had done it many years ago but this card was launched at that and recently they also organized an event for card holders at the Lal Kila in Delhi.

50:36So the focus of this card is more experiences. And as much as you spend this card, more and more experiences get unlocked for you. So next month there is some kind of concert happening. You get exclusive tickets for that. There is an event happening with Usain Bolt. If you want to go for that, you get some tickets with that. So very, very much focused on exclusive experiences. There are certain clubs where you get access to those clubs if you have this card for which you can either become a member of the club at a discount or you can access the clubs for events through this card. What's the annual price of this card?

51:31So this card has an annual fee of around 20 ,000 rupees. And again, even if you avail of two or three or four of these benefits, you will get more value from that. But the idea is not that. I think some of these cards have fees because they want to also maintain a little bit of exclusivity. and most of these cards are sort of by invitation so that's one set these are two very popular cards they are the leading cards of the two respective banks and these cards typically don't come with a fee but there is a minimum relationship value you need to have with the bank and when you meet that threshold meet then you get issued that card so one is one is HDFC's leading card one is Axis Bank's leading card and if you have certain value of deposits or investments maintain then you have this card issue but these are both very different cards like in terms of value and in terms of annual threshold right burgundy private kaafi exclusive customers ko milta hai infenia to har kisi ko mils meala bhot logo ko mil sakta comparatively to burgundy so har bank alag strategies bhi hai alag thresholds bhi hai but like infenia ka threshold will be lesser than burgundy private right it is lesser but there could be and there will be I'm sure over a period of time enhanced offerings from even the other banks which will have something for ultra high net worth or you know like private banking relationship customers.

53:30So is Burgundy private for ultra high net worth? Burgundy private is positioned. So many of these cards they don't come with an annual fee. but you have to maintain a minimum value of relationship spends spends spends or a combination of spends and you have to maintain how much deposit and relationship with bank so look again but still if you have to put it in numbers because there's a cost attached to it right in finia is like 10-15 thousand yeah so So every bank has a different... And Burgundy would be like a lakh or 1.5 or is it 40 ,000? No, no, it's not in that range. It's like most of the people, at least even I know in my own case, it's about relationship value.

54:25Okay. And what's the relationship value that you have to? So, you know, the banks decide what it is. You know, I'm not being very disting about it, but the banks have a range. If you meet that range and they issue that. So I said it's a combination of spend and relationship value. But like I said, again, there is no one size fits all. About 18 years ago, India had very few options in terms of cards. You had banking with the bank and you worked with that. What has changed in the last decade or so? There are different tiers of offering from the banks, like we are discussing, based on spend and relationship value.

55:20And the second is the growth of co-brand cards. virtually her airline, every major hotel chain, every major e-commerce entity or platform, they have all started looking at co-brand cards. Because these cards are a huge driver of loyalty and spends. Yeah. And not only on the platform, but off the platform as well. True. You know, so that's a big change. And because of that, I think going back to again, something that you said, it becomes very important for the bank and the co-brand partner and the network to look at the data of the customer and make sure that they have the most relevant offering for the customer given where the customer is in his or her journey of life.

56:35If we don't do that, what happens if somebody else will come along and offer them a better product, which was exactly the thing that you were narrating. They will come and offer them a better product. And the bank and the network and the merchant might just lose that customer or lose a part of the value of that customer was giving them. So looking at that data, looking at that analytics and making sure that we are staying relevant is very important. It's not that we have given you a card and whatever is working for you today will work for you for the rest of your life. And as people's life circumstances evolve or their family circumstances evolve.

57:19and then again like we were discussing earlier on a Dushrin note that you know when someone has a spouse or someone has children then you have to think about do I even have the right card for the family members not just for for the primary card holder so that's how it is tell me one card which is the most exclusive card visa like how there's one one of the most like one card which is very talked about is American Express Centurion correct something like that does Visa have something around the world Visa exclusive card so we have absolutely there are many cards in the US one of our most exclusive cards is a card that we do with JP Morgan it's called the Sapphire card you know again a lot of those values and benefits people will be able to relate to in the US.

58:22But the kind of rewards you get for the same level of spend is very, very compelling. In India, we launched a card with Axis Bank, which is called the Primus, the Axis Primus card. So it's one notch higher than even Burgundy private the Burgundy private card and it is so we have a so again you know there's a whole host of things there but there's like a concierge service and It's not only the standard set of value and offer. if you require something that is very very bespoke you will call the concierge and the concierge will help you so I will give an example when we launched the primus card one of the first calls that the concierge received was a family wanting to get a table reservation at a Michelin restaurant in Paris that's normal many concierge services around the world will get that for you nothing big but this family said that look we have an 8 month old baby and we don't want to leave the baby anywhere so this restaurant has to allow us to bring this baby right now many Michelin star restaurants may not allow children and definitely children below a certain age.

1:00:09You should have to be wrong, we will have to be wrong, we will have to be wrong. Anything can happen, right? Now, obviously, that's like a private request. I wouldn't know exactly how we managed to fulfill that, but that's the kind of level of customization that the concierge service offers. So I could list out a whole host of benefits but you know benefits are benefits the real value of the highest tier of card is things which are not measurable only in terms of money or benefit so if I tell you that this card for every 100 rupees of spend you get 5 points or 5 miles whereas some other card gives you 3 miles it's okay I mean somebody can relate to that somebody may not relate to that but the real power of the highest tier of cards is that ability to really deliver bespoke customized experiences which matter to that customer if someone wants a Michelin star restaurant then they want an entire safari trip to South Africa planned somebody wants something else and I just happen to give two examples of travel but I'll give a completely different example you know when Coldplay was playing in India how much was the demand of tickets now if someone needs a card holder if they need Coldplay or they need Taylor Swift or 2 years before when the World Cup was being held and some people should have a match of Qatar and Argentina in Argentina France in Qatar Argentina France and if you had booked tickets for 3-6 months that itself was very difficult but some people will decide one week before when it is clear that Messi is going to be in the final that we have to go for it now that time nobody is selling tickets unless somebody already has it with them.

1:02:28So the bespoke concierge services that are there for the highest tier of cards in the world are sometimes, sometimes, I'm not saying it is guaranteed, even able to get you something which is commercially not even available. Because two weeks before the final, all tickets are all sold out, right? Or one week before the final. so those are the kind of things that people value beyond money and there is no set play for that you just have a service which you call and say I need this you figure out and I'm not I mean these customers are not shy to pay for it we won't pay for money the extra price that you have to pay that you might discuss what rate are you getting me at it's not a blank check but some of them are they say look we don't care how much money you need to do it you do it how do you do it this is your problem so I'm just trying to communicate that because like I said I can list out a bunch of things but the question of the day is how do we get FIFA 2026 tickets first sign up for a visa card and actually actually Raj there is a window of pre-sale that is being opened for visa card holders to enable them to bid for FIFA tickets.

1:04:07That is already happening, by the way. So if you are seriously interested, I have to share that link with you because that pre-sale window is opening. And then there's, of course, we do get a certain number of tickets for India, which we allocate to our bank partners and say, here's something you can offer your clients.

1:04:39there is a general site that gets opened for FIFA for Olympics for all card holders to put in a bid and it's very interesting this FIFA you put in a bid and it's a dynamic model by which tickets are going to be allocated are you going to the finals haven't decided yet you can at any point no no no tell me more I like this part tell me some crazy insights and data and where are the other things you must be going through this over the years every month you will get something like this in this country in this country you know there are some myths about cards and why is it important to to give people a better understanding of cards and what I would call responsible credit.

1:05:40When people take a credit card, then with that, there is also a responsibility. And how do you fulfill that, right? So, in India today, we have about 1 billion debit cards. 1 billion debit cards 1 billion debit cards So about 100 crore debit card

1:06:12So we have about 1 billion debit cards That doesn't mean that 1 billion people have it Multiple Now In contrast to that Credit cards there are only about 110 million so 11 crore 11 crore no 11 crore 100 crore debit card 11 crore 11 crore credit card how many people have to have that is the important thing that these 11 crore credit cards are there are only 50 to 55 million or under 5 to 5 crore unique credit card holders because many people have 2 or 3 credit cards so under 50 and 55 million unique credit card holders 5 or 5 million people have on a population base of 1.4 billion so on one side there is a huge opportunity for banks and financial companies to increase the penetration of credit cards.

1:07:34But it has to be done in a very responsible manner. Okay. The idea is not to drive people to take credit for the sake of it. However, when I started, I said that there is a misconception or a myth about credit cards. What is interesting is that only 20 % of the people who have a credit card actually use it for credit. What do I mean by that? means that only one person or person at the end of the month who is the outstanding credit card does not do 100 % payment they avail of credit means they make a part payment and carry forward we people in technical terms we call it revolvers revolvers revolvers but they are revolving the credit if you have to pay 100 rupees because you have made purchases of 100 there is a minimum payment you need to make you either make the minimum payment or you make little more than the minimum payment but you are not paying the entire 100 rupees which is outstanding on your bill for your 100, 40, minimum minimum might only be 10 % so 10 rupees bhar diya, baqi nubbe aagle mahinay bharیں aagle mahinay bharیں ya kishto may installments may bharیں and us pay bharیں us pay bharیں to only 20 % of the people in India use a credit card for in this manner which need credit 80 % of the people 80 % are what we call Transactors That means That credit card Only as a Instrument of convenience To make a payment To get the benefits Rewards Offers Cashbacks And A natural credit period Because of the billing cycle Of 35 to 55 days That benefit But they don't They pay the bill 100 % outstanding every month.

1:10:17So again, many people when we ask them why you haven't received a credit card some of them say oh we don't want to take credit and that's okay. Credit card doesn't mean or it doesn't mean that you have to get credit. That is one. Of course, there are times when people who are starting out in life, who have to get a new phone or have to get electronics or have to buy something for a house, they avail of credit, they might take a loan, they might use a credit card. And, you know, many companies now offer something called buy now, pay later, where you can pay in three or four or five installments zero cost EMI so there are many offers and people should carefully analyze if I can afford this do I really need it and if they do they can avail of these facilities it is there but like I said four out of five people in the country do not use these cards for availing credit they use it for the convenience benefits offers so that's a big thing however everybody who is using a credit card they are also building credit history and every one has a lot of bureau scores today so that when they go to a bank for a loan they have a credit history basis which the bank can approve their loan.

1:12:09So, the point of explaining this was large country, 100 crore debit cards, but only 11 crore credit cards. Only 5, 5.5 crore people, unique people have a credit card today. But tell me, is it good? Country ke paas kam credit card hona? Is it good or bad? America bhoat credit dependent hai. Correct. Right? America mein credits score life people say that they think their entire life average American credit score in order to live with credit and the other cycle their job decides on credit scores their car decides their home decides how many things are decided right so heavy credit dependent country credit dependent versus India here is a devil now change on some societies but as that we will not have loans and not have money.

1:13:08We will not have money. What is the benefit of the American society for the biggest credit? What are the losses of India to give? Because of relative ease of availability of credit, the US economy benefits in terms of ability of consumers to spend ability of people to buy let's say a house we know how many years have to be able to afford a house if at all right and I'm not talking just about Bombay Bombay, of course, is an extreme because of the cost of real estate. But the relative availability of better availability of credit does give a certain amount of impetus and stimulus to economies like US.

1:14:17even we have seen that in China we have seen that in Brazil so this is not just about US but I think the part that I am exercising is that it's not a it's not a silver bullet that solves everything because when that becomes excessive it creates other problems so getting that balance right is important but if your question is if your question is would India and Indians benefit from better credit penetration, better availability of credit on better terms, of course it would. So what would be the benefit? Give me simple basic layman as above a five-year-old. So what would be the benefit if credit access is good in the country?

1:15:05You said that India has 15-20 crore people who can get credit cards well, who can avail, can fail, which is so much income or so much history that they can take a credit card and use it. They will be useful in life. But only 5 crore people use it. So these 10-15 crore people who are not using it, what do they have to use it? Yes, so I said,

1:15:34the relative amount of personal expenditure that is in cash, that moves to digital. So both credit card, UPI, when cash in the economy reduces and digital payments increase, the cost of dealing and handling with cash that comes down. And the transparency of who is buying, the data, both with government as well as with the ecosystem improves. So it's a kind of a virtuous cycle because as much as digital payments grow, companies will be able to give more basis the data of those digital payments. They will be able to give more credit and increase the penetration of credit. Because that data and information becomes the feeder to this thing.

1:16:32When it happens in cash, there is no record of that.

1:16:37that is not captured. Whereas, this information then is available to the banks, to the NBFCs and players. So, as we said, it lifts the economy A, in terms of spending, purchasing power, the ability of then institutions to give more credit to the right people in the right manner. That I am again and again underlining. Right people, right manner, right quantum, that is necessary. The last thing you want in any country is excessive credit or leverage or debt. That's not good for the country. But basically, it drives consumption. You take anything. Two-wheelers, consumer durables, mobile phones, people traveling.

1:17:31And again, this is not elitist people traveling abroad even traveling within the country domestic tourism is a huge source of potential revenue for us and people's ability to do that if they have you know money disposable income and but isn't it like a chicken and egg problem that if I have a better credit system I will spend more I will save my foundation of a country which is why I am stable I will reduce it so if I consume more if I spend more on consumption technically I will save my money so I will save my money which is sometimes I wonder if credit is good or not because if you are in America or Europe or in Europe in the same nation where education is the government take care health is the government take care on a rainy day or something like welfare system is there as a backstop that you don't get a job or anything at the end government gives you something unemployment benefit so for the poor day they don't have to save Right devastated με το 인� chlorine.

1:19:00Right. credit just use but is�� more in their country The country grows so they grow It's great Same of our We will get hippurable So companies To help So You will grow As the farmers Ring ж Kath All things will grow And Everyone the dollar rises But On a bad day I don't have the Safe Re cries do not do it. I am going to increase credit from my credit and consume better credit. I have to see my students, see my children, see if I'm ill, see health. I have to see health. I have to go to job. If I have to go to job, if I have to go to job, I have to go to job. gone. No unemployment benefit also.

1:19:55Plus, legal battles are not so favorable for a lot of people. The legal system is also very good. If you have to fight legal battles then the public service is very good. We have money in every thing. So, when I have so much money, if I have a bad day, I should save. So, you are raising a couple of very fundamental basic economic questions so first I'll say we need to draw a distinction between saving and investment right if you only just keep money in your bank account and you will get basic bank interest over a period of time you will not have inflation also so this is the thing that the quantum that we need to save and invest is higher than in a Scandinavian country or West European country or even US or any other comparable developed nation.

1:21:09There is no debate, there is no discussion. having said that like I said it's a balance once you have done some amount you need to have in saving which is pure which is on a rainy day you probably don't want to buy a mutual fund if you bought a house you don't want to be in a situation where you have to take a you have to sell that or whatever that's pure what you have for like you said medical emergencies so you have to have that over and above that you have some investments which have different level of liquidity you can withdraw you can dip into and some investments are more illiquid by nature but once you have taken care of that piece, the availability of credit.

1:22:21And like I said, I'm drawing a distinction between a card and just more broadly availability of credit to people who have the means is important and I'll give my own life example. I bought my first house in Mumbai in 2007. Sorry, it was in 2005.

1:22:50Back then I was working in a bank. I was working in a bank. The bank was giving me certain amount of loan, staff loan. So I got a staff loan from the bank. I got savings. But staff loan and savings, I was finding it difficult to buy a house. So I was sitting with my friend. I said, you know, he's a Marwadi businessman. So although I had degrees and degrees, but basic basic mindset that people don't likely that you have to live in the kind of a place without a loan. You never buy that place in the fall. So if you have such savings, you will get so much from a bank, because you are lucky that you work in a bank, you do a subsidized loan.

1:24:03But you will not get it. be able to afford a house. So why don't you take some amount as a loan? I said, I never had a loan in life, neither had my father, nor my grandfather. So how do I do this? He said, look, how much savings in the year is. And what do you think you will save in the next few years? And he explained that there is always a small element of risk if you lose your job what will you do because that saving is there as long as you are working but then he said that in that situation Sandeep you have an MBA degree you don't find a job immediately but 1-2-3 months you will get a job and good qualifications you have a good track record so don't worry you can take itna toh loan le sakte ho and that's how I bought my first house so I always say that it was a aha moment even for a person reasonably well educated and all that and this was Raj I was in my 10th year in my professional career so 10 years I had worked I had built a saving corpus but then I had to buy in Mumbai was impossible and I had to take the loan.

1:25:34So all I'm trying to say is credit is not bad. Responsible credit will fuel growth in the economy. When I bought my first flat in Mumbai then the real estate sector would have got a thing and as I take that first leap to buy that home it would have not been possible without a loan. I mean, if I wanted to live in a house in a kitchen, I could have done that. You know, but so credit per se is not a bad thing. It will fuel consumption and growth in the economy. But it has to be done in the right way. That's the only thing. And in a matter of three, four, five years, I repaid that loan. And, you know, so that's how it works.

1:26:32And even we were giving the credit card example, like a lot of people today, I find they are using sort of this facility of buy now, pay later. Somebody wants to go on a nice holiday or vacation. though the option of being able to fund that cost in installments as opposed to in one shot. So some of that is not necessarily bad. It's not the same as someone just recklessly spending just because they have a credit card. So I think that, like I said, it's a discipline, it's a responsibility and we need to build that discipline. And you know, lack of discipline, Raj, can happen anything. It can happen in food habits.

1:27:33It can happen in your entertainment habits. So, financial discipline is important. Credit per se is not bad. And I never say that we should look at what is in America or what is in China. We should decide what is right for India. And you make a very very good point that we need to make sure that saving plus investment has taken care of all this before we go and buy that fancy car or fancy home or fancy mobile phone also. But tell me how does this visa partnership do? How does the visa earn money? So in all these transactions that we facilitate and enable on the network, I was describing it as a piping system or a network.

1:28:22So on all these transactions, there is a very small percentage that is retained by Visa. And just like I was telling you earlier, there are certain perceptions about credit and how many people actually use credit. There is another perception about how networks make money, which is not necessarily accurate in the sense that when a transaction happens, the merchant actually pays a certain part out of their earnings. and a part of that actually goes to the banks the largest part goes to the bank that has issued the card because the cost of the card is the cost of the card customer and any cost of credit of potential default that the bank has to manage so the largest part of that that revenue actually goes to the bank some revenue goes to the bank that enables the collection at the merchant end.

1:29:39On one side we say issuing bank, on one side we say acquiring bank, so banks get money. And then there is a small part that visa retains to enable all this and to administer this system locally, globally, etc. So that's our primary revenue model.

1:30:08So a lot of this varies country to country a lot of this varies difference between if you are using debit card or credit card and if you are using in India or outside but very big the merchant average which cost is between 1.5-2 % to the merchant. So, in 100 rupees, they get 98.5 or 98.5 they get. The balance, there's a bid that goes to issuing, the bid that goes to acquiring bank, there is in basis point something that visa retains. So, if you take 2 rupees, too much of secret sauce I cannot deliver. But, you know, what is more important, even of the, Even of the amount that we retain, another portion of that goes back to the banks as incentives to help grow the payments ecosystem.

1:31:13And why is that important? So, not only the fees that the banks make from the transaction, but we also support the growth of the ecosystem because it's good for not just our business. It's actually good for the whole economy when cash keeps getting displaced with digital payments. So in some ways, a lot of people ask me, but that's good. A lot of people ask me about, you know, so who is your competition? It's not that other card networks are my competition. It's not that other forms of digital payments like UPI is my competition. Our real competition is cash. Because the mission of companies like ours and others who are in digital payments is to displace cash with digital.

1:32:15Subject to security, safety, convenience and of course, responsible credit where credit is given. But we see it from this perspective that cash has to reduce the economy and we have to get digital payments. and the other lot of people think that credit card is only for rich and it's only for one thing you forget that it's credit, debit, prepaid there are many different cards credit card is of course most common but the largest number is actually debit card the the idea is like I said irrespective of card or virtual credential. The idea is to grow digital payments and the idea is to make the activity of payment very, very convenient.

1:33:23It should be almost like you don't have to think you shouldn't have to worry about it neither worry about the safety factor or worry that my payment will go or not I will get the information that I will get or not we want to take that out of the equation payment should be like it's done it's done after that you have so much you have to take the tension so how do we make the payment so intuitive so simple that the customer doesn't have to think about it that's the real mission that you have to do something payment should be you know just simple intuitive and seamless but there's a risk with but digital payments and that risk is financial fog do you know financial fog how are you defining it financial fog is because I operate so much in the digital world I put my numbers and I put my card details and that's why I forget where I have forgotten where I'm spending what I've done probably maybe subscriptions put in the questions.

1:34:58Then it cuts, then it cuts, oh, here it's cut, here it's cut, all of that. There's a lot of, there's a little fog, there's a clarity, what's going on, and you tap it, and you realize it much later. How do you solve for that? Great. There's a website, or a place where I can see that there's 50 subscriptions that I can close it. I would say, this is the, one of the best questions that you've posed to me and I will say absolutely. So how? So number one, the Indian regulator passed two or three very, very specific regulations to India. One of those regulations was that wherever you have subscribed or you have given a standing instruction diya hai ki har saal ya har mahinay ya har haftay ya har chay mahinay meray card se ye amount deduct hoke ye merchant ko jayega.

1:36:04Toh wo standing instruction ko fulfill karne ke pahle the card issuer will send you a notification that dear customer, dear Raj, kya aap ne, do you remember or kya you have received this subscription or not and if at that time you feel like I don't remember what this is or I have to discontinue there is a number you can call or there is the app you can go to and you can disable that subscription so this will be a reminder on any standing instruction or subscription by the way this is a specific initiative of RBI. In India, it happens or not, it is a different matter. But RBI did this in India.

1:36:59Precisely to prevent from this kind of financial fog issue, which people forget or some sites take advantage of it. Because they tempt you with something and then before you realize it, you are part of a subscription model. Right? So, this is what happened. Second, I had told you about tokenization. That because if you save your card with multiple merchants, the vulnerability of hacking increases. And if someone's website has compromised on a cyber attack on a merchant's website, then your card details can leak out. And the world's big names have had hacking on their sites where card data has been stolen.

1:37:42So all merchants in India cannot store card details anymore and that token is what they have and the network matches the token to the card. So that data is no longer sitting in various merchant sites, for example, or payment aggregator sites. So tokenization is done. Third thing is one of the beauties of the card payment is your whole digital record is there on your bank app and you don't have to wait for the end of the month. You open your bank app or your bank site, you click on credit cards and you can see what are the most up-to-date transactions that have happened. Sometimes this happens that you have eaten a restaurant or somewhere you have eaten a food or you have shopped in a shop.

1:38:37But the name of the merchant appears, it is different because of the legal entity or registration. right so if I bought something here instead of Raj Shamani it's written as figuring out and now how do I know that this is Raj Shamani right so so at least because that date and time and all is captured if you go back to the bank they are able to more often than not say but is there one simple website where you can just go and just keep block like it's like off off off on on on yeah so what is not there is a common repository of all your cards but at the bank level if you have three cards from a bank you can go to their app and you can see all the cards and after the show I will show you one bank app which I have but there I can only see credit transactions right not I can't see subscriptions which I have followed over the years.

1:39:43You may not be able to see future subscriptions. So I think maybe there's a great point and there's a room to improve those interfaces to even give you a picture of what are all the subscriptions that on this card have been enabled. Some banks, fintechs may have it. some may not but that's a great point and that would further help customers know not only what I have done but what are the things I have signed up for which could hit me later what happens is the day before your subscription or a week before your subscription you get an advance notice that is different from going to a site and being able to see and scroll as to what subscription have I signed up for I think that's a great point and there's no reason why the next generation generation apps should not have that.

1:40:42And then there should be also apps that allow you to store similar data for cards across banks. I'm sure somebody in the world has come up with it. I'm not top of my head aware of who, but I'm sure that should be there because this is a very natural thing for people to want. I have five cards. I want one place where I can store, where I can see all the information irrespective of different banks that may have issued. One of the reasons, by the way, that mobile tap and pay through a wallet or an app is very popular is for that reason. Because that wallet's app, you could store cards from different banks in that and you should be able to get a single view of that.

1:41:36But whether they will tell you about subscription or not, you know, one will have to see which specific app has that feature or functionality. But that's a good point. Should be there. Well, I think I've covered all my questions. Thank you so much for coming here and spending time with us. Thank you for your incredible patience and great homework and questions. You know. Thank you so much. Awesome. Great. I'm a big believer that if you're around right people, opportunities explode. Right. Someday, maybe your world is different, my whole world is different. But you live in a building, we meet in the gym, we sleep and sleep.

1:42:14After 3-4 days or 3-4 months, there will be an opportunity where we end up exponentially growing our businesses for some insight. You don't know how can I help you, I don't know how can you help me. And this just gets compounded by if we have 20 more people like us. With the right people. Right. So, that's why I always thought as a growing entrepreneur, who doesn't have a family and doesn't have issues for me, I should be very flexible to move where I can find good people and this is where I should spend my maximum discretionary income. Instead of buying all the fancy toys, I should spend here.

1:42:56So, I should rent more and stay. So this is a thought. Now, specifically when I came to Bombay and finally I've started maybe spending time with people like you, I found out that in the same building, in the same place, people don't have any meaning. Because people are so busy, they don't have any time. They're rarely there to probably network. So your highest chances of meeting really high valuable people is through work or else no. Thank you so much for watching this episode. Now I have to do three things. have to do this. First of all, subscribe to this channel because as much as you subscribe will be better and valuable guests we will be able to get you to get you.

1:43:33Number two, tell me in the comments what you liked this episode and what you liked to repeat the mistakes and which guests you want to see on our podcast so that we will get them and give you value to them. Number three, you must share this episode with someone who can share this I'll see you next time. Until then, keep figuring out.