How To Get Promoted Faster: Career Growth & Leadership Secrets | Sauvik Banerjjee |FO558 Raj Shamani

37:36This say-do ratio is okay. What they say, they do deliver but 5 out of 10 times. And the other team is notorious. 10 on 10 on Seidu. There's a balance how to handle that team. And there is another team, beautiful, muska and smile and body language. But the Seidu ratio is 2 out of 10. 10 cheese and 2 cheese deliver. That's a good framework to have. You can measure it. Seidu ratio of every employee of every team makes a lot of difference. Or a squad. Yeah. You are as good as your squad or employee within. So you can actually deploy this framework saying that this is the squad. Example marketing.

38:18Yeah. Or partnerships. It's a squad, right? These are things you have said. These are things you have said. These are things you have done. And hold them to a date. Half of the reviews cannot go without a date. Say-do ratio cannot happen without a date and a time. Tuesday afternoon means Tuesday afternoon. True. I realized it very simply, Raj, because, you know, when I ran so many e-commerce businesses, build e-commerce engines, e-commerce is 24-7. You want to ship out a product or a code, it has to be on a very particular set of time. 3 a.m. when the traffic is not buying that much is a good time.

38:57Window is 20 minutes. Seriously, Raj. All e-commerce ship out, code ships out, happens during that 3, 2, 4, 30 a.m. window. sometime to India will sleep India is nocturnal believe me if you miss that window I can't ship that out and wait again 24 hours so the habit in the technology industry is say suppose a plant line right or say suppose a defense or say suppose aviation systems you have so much so little window that's why they call it downtime so dimetown window and you have to be so perfect that you don't have rollback roll back you have to roll back to the same setting so we lived hence say do ratio came into our life we will test it out 2500 times but when we deploy it it will be on time on point nice I like this I like RACI I like say do ratio I'm liking this I didn't think that we were going to make podcasts around these things but I like it this is the way tech industry works actually nice This is really good.

40:07Do you see in your industry or anywhere in your experience of when you're leading teams from the top does the hardest working employee usually rise to the top or no? No. Why? Hard work plus intelligence is very important Raj. Only someone's like grinding. Grinding is default Raj in today's DNA. So you need hard work is default. Let me give you a creating example. simple example can you tell me that Ravindra Jadeja take a cricket example if that's okay Ravindra Jadeja Kuldi Pyodav and Manav Sutar do any one of them bowl less in the nets I don't think so right three of them are very different spinners one is a finger spinner one is a wrist spinner and the other one is a left arm wrist spinner right Jareja and Manasutra are left-hand spinners and Kuldeepia are left-hand Chinaman.

41:09They do eight hours of bowling in the nets. But in the match, on-spot intelligence helps. Thinking on your feet is as important. So that whole body works like an institutional memory. Take a CTO life or take a senior architect or technology architect. You have to build systems to architect things. you have to place the systems here, here, here, here you have to create integration blah, blah, blah, blah, blah he's working 8 hours and there's another architect who's also doing 8 hours but the thing is he's cracked something which the other architect ignored he's cracked a pioneering invention as part of this new architecture in which 200 systems are going to be that guy is 8 hours, 8 hours plus that pace of and it doesn't matter that you are super intelligent or not.

42:09You have to have execution intelligence. But why do let's say coders or technical people who are technically very good, they're hard working also, they're intelligent and they're not even doing it. Yet they don't become leaders. Why it's so difficult for technical people to become leaders? I think the world is becoming subject matter expert oriented. I love your emergent story. You know, they don't need a 200 people team. They came out of a very large organization. But the way they attacked the problem is subject matter expertise. Raj, I can't be building AI models and agentic systems. What I'm only doing for e-commerce industry, retail, hotel, that is Shovik's core.

42:52Shovik can't solve the financial services for modeling and agentic problems. Banks' agentic problems, I can't solve. I have not equipped myself for that. So knowing where your subject matter expertise lies allows you to rise high. If you narrow down your expertise, then you'll rise high. You can't be an Instagram influencer and a TikTok influencer. Then your long format podcast will take a backseat because it takes research, questioning, brilliant questions, listening, hearing various types of people's energies. Narrow it down. Then you grow faster. The world of today is like that. If you are a painter today or if you work for Berger Paints and Asian Paints, today the fabric of paint is changing thanks to AI.

43:40Newer colors are coming on different form factors. But if you are a paint researcher, you will always grow differently than your generic marketing of paint industry. But then someone who is a technically strong person is subject matter expertise. expert usually don't they find more difficult to grow and become leader you're going to invest on yourself the guy who invests on himself always will be a little ahead someone who stays just see if I'll give you an example I only build agents and then an agent is building an agent will I do that for two years no right I will move into modeling of agents and working on a BCI system a brain computing interface system agents and models the same guy is also doing that what he's doing is he's continuously enhancing his knowledge base he's card working basic intelligence decent IQ but his knowledge base is increasing got it interesting because this is all observation at workplaces across the world I am sharing with you what is one thing you have observed which is which is a lie like what is the biggest lie employees are told about promotion lot of lies are told Raj not one lot of lies are being told about how promotions happen it's old school thinking one thing I think which is which is very common is you are important to us the guy who is telling get out of the room 20 minutes his name is also you are important to us everybody is important to us

45:38why are you lying to him that you are important to us if you have got a D and he is on a PIP you are giving a PIP performance improvement plan which is one step away from terminating his employment and you are saying you are important to us why this sugar coating tell your shit he'll actually feel real that I actually didn't perform tell your floating HR honesty is lacking everywhere firstly I don't like this whole thing called HR in conglomerates what if she is not performing tell her or tell him

46:22nice English and good beautiful layering they say your shit you were bad there's nothing wrong I was told I was bad in maths by my teacher when I was growing up what's wrong in telling you were bad you didn't perform oh you're important to us after saying all of this your performance has to improve no last six months it has not improved that's the first lie people say second incredible but then I'll come to this okay huh go ahead you were saying second Second is,

47:01second is, we think you will grow in the organization. Then give him a 25 % hike. Why are you giving 5 % hike? What is it? Rubbish. Managers and HR. I think you will grow. Grow will be. That means he's going to, you're talking about his potential ladder and promotion. Then give him a 25 % hike if you have the authority. or come in the room with the authority. Second lie. Third lie. Nobody thinks that you are going to grow if they are not giving you actual. And you will consistently see this. Third lie. You are making me say things man. Third lie. I will be very honest with you. I don't care. Third lie is the organization doesn't have money.

47:54the organization is about to go in an unstable mode, we are all fine don't worry you will be well looked after the organization might tank funding has not come through which is the biggest worry I see in the startup ecosystem today it's better to tell him we will not be able to give you a salary, are you okay I have gone through that life a lot of us have gone through that life if you tell me I'll be mentally prepared I have got some cash savings I like this business I like this conviction I will stay with them don't say company is okay when you don't have the payroll to pay for the next two months there's a startup ecosystem life and I'm sure you've heard all of this I think lying is natural to people very natural don't do it at workplace you can spoil people's careers so tell me what are the what are the first telltale signs in an employee which tells you that this is a CXO material you must be dealing with so many teams you must be identifying that this guy can be a potential future leader first observation is how he delivers and accumulates a team where there are people not even responsible to be part of his team.

49:32Give you an example. Give you my organization. Say that again. A guy, part of a team, suddenly takes ownership and drives a deliverable or a project or a program or a product, starts cross-functional, work, starts engaging other teams and for some reason, they start believing in this guy can deliver with the team he had and the teams he's bringing. I'll give you an example, simple example. I am currently working with a large manufacturing global giant based out of Europe and US. actually valve manufacturing car parts all sorts of these are pure play the manufacturing part company I saw him a few years back he was a good team leader today he is in four years three years time he has reached CEO minus one working with the United States multi-state teams so I sat down with him for a coffee and a dinner I said what happened everybody is like going to you become the go-to person a go-to person has a framework those who know it and those who don't know it they organically become he said I started figuring out that if I have to deliver things I cannot just do it within my tech ecosystem I have to involve marketing and sales I have to involve finance because the funding comes from my CFO and the team.

51:15Suddenly, I have the core squad of delivering something for my business, which is in the digital space, in the social media space, in the platform space. But I can't do it because GTMA marketing and sales will be. My CFO will only listen to my technology officer if I bring the finance team, finance managers, finance accounts executives. Then he created a cross-pollination team. cross-functional, cross-pollinated team. His squad is still that seven, eight people squad who was delivering. Suddenly the squad is a 12 people squad fronting in front of the business leaders and the CEOs saying this is how we are delivering it.

51:57So what he has done, he has mapped the marketing and the sales influencer. He became an internal influencer and said that either way this has to be sold by you. Either way, the capex, opex has to be funded and then audit has to be done by the finance team, the partnership and client services team. So if I'm building this product, who gives me the market intelligence? Rather than, this is a specific example, but the lesson what I learned and that's what I also try to do is bring the non-tech ecosystem in your organization if you genuinely want to deliver something across. So what happens is when your laddering happens, we want to promote it.

52:40It's a no-brainer. Why are you even asking? Yeah. Then they say, you sure? He's going to be nominated for the chief digital officer's role. Do we have anyone else apart from him? Not his own team, not his own CTO or CPO. This is coming from the CMO. Chief of revenue officers, the sales directors, the CFOs. X is phenomenal. There's no other internal individual and you don't want to hire Everyone together. It was not his role profile. No, it was not in his KPI. It was not his... And this is a common pattern. A marketing guy brings tech and product and sales and partnership and finance into him. That marketing campaign multiple times is successful.

53:33So when he is being promoted to become the chief marketing officer, the laddering may, it's a no-brainer then. now can you can you orchestrate this no you can't you still have to be good at what you do you still have to have the belief of your team that you can lead and fail so all the failing success I'm talking about a product scenario it is applicable across industries and ultimately the CXO of a business his OKR is the CEO's OKR the CTO's OKR the CMO's OKR the CPO's OKR or the chief revenue officer's OKR or the CFO's OKR is the CEO's OKR. CEO's KPI is I'm inheriting. So I don't have a technology OKR or a KPI.

54:17I have the business OKR. So if, take a step back what I just said. If I as a business youngster starts believing that the business value comes from bringing all of us together and then delivering my piece of work, then what happens is you are invested in the business's aspirations. then the board and the leadership says that you know let's groom this guy yeah yeah true and what is this is a very good actually sign and I can think of two three people in my organization all of a sudden now that you've actually said that because the first thought when you see someone going from X and out of you know going to Y from then Z and then bringing all of them together just to deliver because the delivery needs to happen and in the best way possible.

55:11Correct. And they are able to make that possible without without me knowing about it. Right. The first thought which comes in my head let's groom this person. Yes. Let's groom her let's groom this guy and you know make they make both of them probably much better and see where it goes. Rajal you'll grow a lot more and figuring out will also do wonders. You will have CXOs. the word officer in a C title is extremely important. What do you mean, Manar? Why is it chief technology officer, chief marketing officer, chief digital officer, chief growth officer, chief revenue officer? What does the officer role, what mean?

55:54If you just decode the word. The word officer means you're bringing multiple people to execute a management principle for that business. Or else you can be chief of growth, chief of revenue, chief of technology. They don't exist, right? What exists is chief technology officer, chief executive officer. You're a professional executive who has been given the duty to run a P &L and build the business and grow it X percentile. So a CMO, a revenue officer, a product officer, a marketing officer, a chief sales officer, a chief financial officer, the word officer means Means you bring together to deliver your peace.

56:38That's why it's a C-suite. My definition. Interesting. Because if the word officer is not there, then you're just chief of X. The word officer means you have the responsibility and accountability of the business. Interesting. These five, six do. And what is a sign which instantly tells you that this person will never become a CEO or a CTO or a CMO or any officer? One we spoke about earlier. Blatantly floating with lies and non-deliverables.

57:24Basics. Give him chance after chance. It's okay. People do turn around. Second is he's not a good stakeholder manager. stakeholder means if finance is having some problem and if I can go and sit in three finance workshops which has got nothing to do with me but I can give a way to solve a problem for him or hear him out because he was there supporting me last year when I was having budget issues you are there for that team Third thing is, these are behavioral telemetry and signals. Third thing is, he genuinely is an autocratic decision maker. Very autocratic decision maker. He's not involving people.

58:15He's taking decisions based on the chair he sits. So he's a bad person to have? Not a CXO, sustainable CXO. you cannot be autocratic in a business a business has a charter whether I'm building a phenomenal coffee mug or building an excellent cycle or building a great AI model great AI company how can I take autocratic decisions without involving no business is completely vertical by itself can you drive a technology without a marketing and sales? You can't. Can you drive a technology business without financing accounts? No. Can you drive a technology business without a growth and partnership? No.

59:05Then, how can I take a decision? I can take a decision on the tech stack I am choosing or the architecture of a tech stack I am choosing. But if I am not able to articulate it well, how am I going to basically sell it to my own marketing and sales? I can take a decision that the pricing will be. technology officer can take a decision but you should not so these are the signals when that person is starting to show up he can be brute forced by partiality and bias to become a CXO but he will not sustain he will make such a blunder and he can risk the business brand and the brand erosion can happen so you are very responsible CXO in a large organization some of us take it with a lot of seriousness and honor sometimes.

59:55Yeah. It has to be. It has to be, right? It's so many people, so many millions and millions of dollars involved and so many people's careers involved, so much of the market. If you're running a public company, then you're a different sphere altogether. So that time you need... Legal also you have to... Legal. Compliance. Compliance. Regulation. And then you become a little bit more... It should not stop speed. But you just have to be cautious. and you still when you propose a decision it should be kind of done you kind of as I always say to my youngsters a board meeting is never a board meeting a board meeting happens before a board meeting how you manage the board and then you take and drive that board meeting so those are the signals if that human being doesn't have he'll not be firstly and genuinely Raj good businesses have good people at the leadership with clean, honest clarity of thought.

1:00:54And the other part is, it doesn't have a fraud. Sometimes you can figure out. It's a complete fraud. You're saying and you can't deal with him for long. And then people will figure out a way to corner him and then he can go. Because that is toxicity of the culture which you have built. Business has a lot to do with culture. True. You know, one of the good principles I heard was from Amazon. So Jeff Bezos made this rule that in every meeting, they'll have one empty chair. Correct. And that one empty chair will be, they'll assume that the customer is sitting in the room. Correct. So every decision needs to be made based on that the customer is involved.

1:01:40And you need to put his or her perspective on the table as well. And in the entire meeting, you're not going to have a conversation which you can't have in front of a customer. That's correct. so that keeps you accountable to another level and then what it also does is I did it in one of my companies it gives leverage to a lot of people who otherwise can't speak in front of powerful people to just point out you know what but customer will think like that maybe they are thinking like that but custom they can actually point out the bullshit of a boss or like a powerful person by just taking customer's name I loved that rule and Jeff Bezos yeah like he built this you know he doesn't Amazon doesn't have an NPS and a CSAT oh why you know what they have this is my e-commerce man talking net promoter score and customer satisfaction net promoter score and customer satisfaction they don't have they have what you call is a perfect order which is actually a reflection of what you just said what is a perfect order a man or a woman or whoever goes to the Amazon app or the dot com goes to the product detail page after the search goes to checkout frictionless checkout no network issues the order ID gets flashed the order goes to the seller the seller platform the seller central gets it picked up by the brand and its logistics partner it goes all the way to the shipment company.

1:03:16The shipment company all the way goes to the customer. The customer is delivered. The customer opens up the product. The product gets a review on product detail page and then the loop closes. The customer never spoke to Amazon. Amazon never spoke to customer. That's what they call is a perfect order. So they follow a perfect order as a metric. More number of perfect orders

1:03:46nobody is complaining about delivery and damage that's what that's exactly what Bezos does in the room in the boardroom and that's the same thing he has done it in the metric which he follows and the same thing for product managers saying write the product note as a press release as if the world will read that's the great story right the world will read as a press release so that you have clarity what the end product will look like. And put it on a word document, no pvd.com, and everybody reads it together. This is the product we are going to build, whatever it is. True. Some amazing principles by that.

1:04:26The writing principle is the best. It is unbelievable. It's best. It's by far the best thing which can happen to any management. Yeah. We all do these board level presentations. I, as a principal, I have realized, because I look at code. The word document, the written word by a human being or then polished by Claude. Or GPT. It doesn't matter. The written word on a word document becomes the Bible because your recall of a word on a word document wide background heuristic principle wise is far better than looking at a swanky PPT. UIUX heuristic principles. say on a word on a white background black ink written typed word people remember more i mean that's a phenomenal principle actually love it you know when you i mentioned something here that usually the powerful boss or the person is a problem right if you're an employee if you're a young person in the company how do you disagree with a powerful boss or a or somebody who's at a leadership position.

1:05:38How do you disagree with somebody with a leadership position? Yeah. Without destroying your career. Yeah. The fear of disagreeing is I might end up losing my career. You're right. That's a fear of an employee. It's not an easy road if you are a vocalizing, verbalizing youngster and who is opinionated with he's got a lot of material in his being right I think the best way to do it is which I used to do where I always was heard is

1:06:20leaders like being called by first name in some organizations okay I would rather look at the leader and analyze his type before opening my mouth in a forum. I will spend some time in researching my leader. He's become a leader. Something, Dukanma, he has got something. I would, the decibel has to be a little low, Raj. The voice decibel has to be low. In my mind, I will compute sentences which will bring the attention but my decibel has to be respectful and low. So you can start by saying X or Shovek I like what you're saying, but I have a very different point of view. It 100 % doesn't agree to what your point of view is, but allow me to say it so that you have a couple of minutes to hear me out.

1:07:20This saying, or saying, sir, I don't think this will work. Different, same thing. In a room of five or ten people, two different. Or the third one could be, sir, I don't agree at all. wrong sentence. Give the leader the respect because he's also built tolerance for different opinions on his career. I would say this. Sir or first name, like your point of view, but there is a different point of view I have. I'm partially agreeing or I'm actually disagreeing to this, but if you allow me to, then I can voice myself out being the youngest in the room. Guys, is that okay? there's a way to deal with leaders leaders obviously they are subject matter experts so there is a self pride I have confidence or knowledge comes with it instantly the leader will know any type of human being you are you will say hold on let him finish his thought I'll hear you out then I'll come to you 9 out of 10 times he'll hear you out now whether he actions it or not doesn't matter you actually said that kid actually had a point he might not have the if I say I don't agree sir I don't agree with you how will he feel that's actually borderline disrespect we don't need to disrespect the leader in front of everyone but you give him the respect but gracefully say this is how dialogue across global playbook happens you look at Dr.

1:08:52Jai Shankar gracefully with dignity hammers the shit out of a lot of people who sits in European Union, UN, AXYZ and he'll say to people Europe's problems are all Europe's problems and never everyone else's problems and everyone else's problem is not Europe's problem. The tonality, the decibel, the body posture, the demeanor. What did he just say? So there is merit in learning from these leaders. how you vocalize and verbalize these are two words which youngsters should focus on how you vocalize it's such a good framework to observe that look at leaders of an upcoming country against powerful countries because then you'll see a lot of things happening because India is not at a position where we can directly compete with the most powerful countries in the world.

1:09:56Correct. But we want to actually show our power as well by disagreeing because we have a point of view which is different than others. So we will be very diplomatic and nice in disagreeing. Look at the way India's vocalization and verbalization is happening at all levels. We're not in any conflict. Fingers crossed. And we can't afford to. So that's why we have to be diplomatic all around the world. And we're still having our point of view. And we're still growing. It's a good way to learn. like what they did like you know break it down into a framework and use that as a framework in front of your voice correct correct correct it's a great framework because you know these guys have been professionally taught to speak and deal with every word the power of a word actually is becoming more and more important to anybody we used to think that the words are just to be spoken yeah tell me the world example gets me to another question I'm gonna take not countries but people again.

1:10:55So let's say what to do if you become more ambitious than the boss? That's not a bad thing. But how do you deal with that? That's not a bad thing. But you have to it all depends on your relationship with the boss. Actually depends on your relationship with the boss. And sometimes I face this. Or let's say when you realize that boss is less capable than you. There are times. There are a lot of times. I could see a smirk and smile on your face. No, I think you should try three things. Allow and be open with your boss and saying that, you know what, I'm good at this. I don't think you're good at it.

1:11:36Let me drive it. We'll enjoy the attribution together. That's first approach. That's first approach. Approach two is you realize that he is not better than you and you navigate and build tolerance for his insecurity. then if you have enough time, most of the time, he starts building confidence. He's not backstabbing me. His insecurity is taken care of. Third approach is if these plan A and B doesn't work, either look in a different vertical if you can fit in or move on. Because that will curb and that will shutter down your career, growth and the opportunity you have. And this is a very common thing.

1:12:19All around. All around. And when you're working in this such large organization, who has the maximum power? The CEO, the board, the chairman or some employee who has been there for like 30 years? I'd say combination of everything. Combination of everything. If it's a founder-led organization. Not founder-led, I'm talking about enterprise level. So founder-led? Founder-led, you know the founders will have the maximum voice if they have. Which is a problem and an advantage in many situations. If it's an enterprise-listed company where you're responsible for millions of shareholders I think the board has a very strong point of view.

1:12:57Board is constituted with independent people who are not part of the day-to-day operations. So, a board has company senior leadership, board has outside. So, that's a board is a very organized, neutral board. Still, the CEO has a fundamentally the biggest amount of decisions. The CEO's job is to win the board, win the shareholders, win the employees. CEO's job is a painful job. It's an extremely painful job and he's the ultimate decision maker but his CXOs run the company. But in something like Reliance which is a family-led company there the family would have the maximum power? Absolutely. I mean the listed companies already have great.

1:13:42Let's say Tata Group also. Tata Group has got 30, 40 or listed companies. TCS is one of India's bright blue-eyed beacons. TCS has a board. this is a listed company in BSc, NSC or Infosys right here on board professionally the CEO and the CXOs run it the board obviously has got the exact power of funds or budgets for this year or numbers and targets per quarter or removing a CEO or retaining a CEO exactly because if it's a professional CEO you're not a you don't have the maximum shareholding right that becomes interesting when a founder led business becomes an IPO you've seen some of the India IPOs by founder led businesses how the founder CEO took a backseat and allows them to run now sometimes the founder led CEO allows the board to take the maximum joint decision making so frameworks and models exist everywhere especially where the public stock is running that's a very different ball game startup I think you will find the founder CEOs or the founders will have the maximum amount of decision making.

1:14:54And you were in chief position in two of the largest organizations in India. One has been here since ages. Tata has been here, like probably the development of the country. They've contributed a lot. Way before... 152, 153, four years now. Way before anything existed, they've been here since a very long time, right? and the other is Reliance right which is which is also old organization but competitively new I didn't actually work with Reliance I was the CTO for SAP but deployed to Reliance as their councilary okay but you were there in the organization you would see you could see many things you could see how both of their approaches are different one is completely beating the old one yeah like today Reliance is in the areas where they are they are beating Tata's left right center.

1:15:51Unbelievable. Right? So they are comparatively new. One family owned. Yes. Still beating a very large organization who is probably who is the foundation of so many industries in the country. So what's the difference between Tata's and Reliance? I think Reliance is growing much faster. Much faster. Much faster and a pride of our nation. I think if you want to achieve newer heights of pioneering you need speed and that is the DNA of the Reliance Industries and the family this is also a family group by the way but that speed of pioneering and nation first is there in both but the velocity is also backed by the fearless attitude we have TADA group is a federated conglomerate.

1:16:51Federated, everybody's got their own board, every listing, whether it's steel or, you know, there's about 20 plus. Federated conglomerate. That's not a federated conglomerate. Reliance is still a core conglomerate. Invoice is still one if it comes out of Reliance retail. Whatever the Reliance retail brand is, right? So, that also gives a major speed part where the decision making is limited within a core group of people here the decision making is dependent on every entity's so federated conglomerate and pure play conglomerate one entity when decision making is also slow and fast now the beauty will be when Reliance will also have a lot of IPOs like Jio will have its IPO and Jio money and Jio financial services all of these are now going to be public companies we will observe and see how the speed is getting affected or not because then it's a I have a feeling the speed won't get affected because Reliance has a basic culture is very fast and aggressive and breaking the wall pioneer things right that's amazing can you imagine Reliance Telecom Karlo Duniya Mutthi Me failed and the conviction Mr.

1:18:13Ambani and Mr. Modi and his whole leadership had to again win a spectrum, again venture. This is what I'm saying. Failure builds you for succeeding in that same vertical if you're at it. Failed in the telecom and now and how and look at the adoption of the Lions Geo, which actually has made Airtel much more comparative and Airtel's capabilities have gone in seeing that competition is possible and that achievement and it's a tremendous culture. TADA Group is phenomenal. TADA Group is old school industries, steel and, you know, consumer goods and car, automobile is a big thing for TADA Group. And also I think Air India will stabilize and do well over a period of time.

1:19:03Taj is doing... Taj is phenomenal. It's one of the biggest brands in the world. So TADA Group is also phenomenal. Of course they are. I'm just wondering... No, I think the challenge of speed is very much there. Only speed. Speed is very much good. Nothing else. No, like, they both are great at what they do. Pride of India, both. But I think speed is just because decision-making, maybe. Centralized decision-making versus... Centralized decision-making. One simple team's thought process and conviction, whether we succeed or fail. Yeah, absolutely. Look, GEO is a fantastic example. ASIO is a fantastic example.

1:19:37Have you met Ratan Tata or Mukeshwamani? No, I have not met. I've met Ratan Tata in the... So there's always this, we have the JRD conclave. And when I was at Tata Group, I used to attend it all the time. And Ratan Tata I used to address. And after the, it's a podium and auditorium in South Bombay. And then after that, I used to meet everybody. So I've had the pleasure of him, I've had the pleasure of him meeting me. and my nana was Dr. Amit Chatterjee who was my mother's mama very close was the founder of Tata Steel Sponge Tata Steel's backbone he was in a wheelchair for years and that's why he remembered my nana ji's name and he spent two three minutes before you know he was swarmed by people Mr.

1:20:36Ambani I did not meet but I met the whole leadership who is to review on SAP on behalf of when I was architecting met him once what a personality and what are the leadership hands on hands on system wise hands on they'll question they'll grill you absolutely hands on Tata group of course I have had the pleasure of meeting Cyrus Mistry Noel Tata Chandra Shekharan Chandra across various times I've been working I've not been in the Tata group for the last four years. One common thing about all these guys is the belief system is at a different league. And it has to be, right? You're carrying the hope of 1.4 billion Indians, India to the world, building things for so many.

1:21:30And I was watching Titan the other day. You can't actually figure out the impact of JRD Tata. our dhirubhai what from where they pivoted these two conglomerates Netflix three part movies should be made over a period of time just on the history of India agreed unbelievable agreed and now so you were with India listed companies yes now you are with US listed company wow what is the difference a US listed company working in a US listed company versus India listed company and in both places you've been in leadership yes so you see challenge and compliance and all the other things from the front seat in 2022 when I left TADA group and I joined Resolve AI PLC Resolve was a few hundred million dollar revenue company but the challenge which my founder chairman Dan Wagner who's a dear friend over the years gave me was build the model which is known to us.

1:22:41So, our background was e-commerce as you know. D2C, B2B, we were building e-commerce for SAP, Accenture, Infosys, across my 25th. And his background was also search and e-commerce. And he said, yeah, let's build models in a genetic, this is 10 years back he had started this and I said, really? And he said, no, he has a, he was, his hunches has been this is his fourth public listing and I was like I'll learn what I build is okay building is secondary secondary and I will learn right and then he said one day I want to list this in Nasdaq because his last organization was a massive failure but on the verge of listing three months away he tanked and the next day he registered this company and took the product and then I said okay I have to build retail, e-commerce, hotel, hospitality, CPG, EI models and agentic systems.

1:23:43Where are agentic systems in 2000? There was nothing called agentic. The one agent meant only his defense and intelligence agents. Okay, fine. And then the world started. But then one day in 2022, towards the end, I was traveling with him in the US. No, in London probably. He said to me, I want to list this company. I said where I thought London Stock Exchange it's a British company they said no in Nasdaq itena to I know what is NYSC and Nasdaq in terms of stock exchange one is the biggest stock exchange in the world the other is the second biggest stock exchange in the world US's backbone and then we went on in August 2024 it gives me shivers standing in the Nasdaq stage preparing for the bell ringing and then you come out and you see yourself in that huge tower with your face and you're standing and all of that pictures of your own self.

1:24:49It's like goosebumps. It's like, where were we? Where was I? I was building loyalty and e-comm in India. My career has been in outside India anyway. But then stack listing is unparalleled and we are a small cap. from there to now today we are a couple of billion dollars in valuation our revenue is at about 500 million which is the guidance top line this year 360 500 contractual value it's a the journey has been last 24 months post listing average 100 hour weeks for me and 20 countries I'm traveling so help took a backseat being a professional sportsman my sugar went up, my pressure was but fun has been unbelievable.

1:25:38The fun of building something at that level I'm so proud that we're the only AI company to have the heart to list in NASDAQ when not many AI companies have even thought I mean today Anthropic is probably going to be an IPO in NASDAQ we just had SpaceX which is not an AI company, it's a space company it has got X.AI but we built it on the base of 20 plus patents our own model I had two PhDs back in the day when nobody cared there was no money then I moved to e-commerce most of my life and then building models which can become a change which can behavior change and today I'm working on the future of purchase one of your team members gave a beautiful name just say future of purchase is what you're working who understands the future of e-commerce can be many things future of purchase which is the so it gives me amazing goosebumps that I'm I'm a 50 year old man working with 25 year olds building models and agentic systems for the retail industry hotels and CPG best and biggest and the best of retail brands in the world show me what is it what does it look like what is future of purchase okay see what used to be the normal life of ours if I go to any of the e-commerce sites it is to be search I go to e-commerce sites I don't have to show it to them search there is to be a product detail page yes search is to be 35-40 % of the traffic men women agnostic our vision is to change that what does it do search results page product detail page yeah this is last 25 years of e-commerce 26 years of e-commerce Let's say I'll go search a watch and then there'll be hundreds of watches will be there.

1:27:35And many pages. Yeah. It is an extremely stagnated journey. So you go through that, you have a snippet, then you click a watch, go to the product detail page, come back, again, filter, left, right. Now, what happens to e-commerce when the world of model and agents are arriving at? That's what I'm showing to you. Hi. I'm Ada, your autonomous digital assistant. Welcome to Resolve Fashion Store. What are you looking for today? Hey, Ada. Good afternoon. I'm looking for a pair of jeans. I want to explore those for a mountain hike I'm doing. Going on holiday. Let me find some jeans for your hike. For your hiking holiday, I recommend the high-waist, relaxed fit of the wide-leg, high waist jeans black, the flexible comfort of the men stretch denim jeans, and the roomy, breathable style of the high waist balloon jeans.

1:28:39I like the second option. Could you add the first and the second option to the bag please?

1:28:50Sure, I can add the wide leg high waist jeans black and the men's stretch denim jeans to your cart. To pick the right sizes, could you tell me your usual clothing size or height? I am 6 '3", so find me the largest size. I've added the wide-leg high-waist jeans, black in size extra large, and the men's stretch denim jeans in size 40 to your cart. Ira, I think I would also explore a couple of beach wear because I want to go to the beach with my kids first. And then, of course, near the beach, there are mountains. I'll go for a hike. Could you show me some beachwear t-shirts? Got it. I'm finding some beach-ready t-shirts for you and the kids.

1:29:34Give me a moment while I pull up the options. So I don't have to search anymore. Just say that this is the occasion I'm going for. Here are three great beachwear pics. The Vibrant Kids Blue Pocket t-shirt for the little adventurers. The Playful Kids Casual t-shirt with its palm tree print. and the versatile women black boat neck top that's perfect for a relaxed beach look. Let me know if you'd like to add any of these to your cart or see more options. Ida, I'll come back to you. Give me a few minutes. Thank you.

1:30:10Sure, take your time. I'll be here whenever you're ready.

1:30:17Imagine the world in one year's time. And by the way, this is getting adopted by name a brand who's already a customer of Resolve AI from H &M to Zara. All of them are using this. They're all rolling this out. The reason why they're rolling this out is if I plug in OpenAI, it's full of hallucination. Because they will plug in from the internet. They can't plug into the systems. so I have to build models and agentic systems and agents which can plug into the new launches those are ERP information management system order management systems of a brand's infrastructure and she gets my context I'll show you another example let me show you on the phone which is a very different example okay and this can be fine.

1:31:13I think it'll pick up anyway. Are you recording on this? No, I'm not showing anything. It's a voice. Okay. Okay. Imagine we all love India's brands as well. Yeah. Right? After 7 p.m. the call centers are shut. Hotels call centers are shut. 12 hours before 9 and 9 p.m. I'm not able to do anything. If I'm online I'm only restricted to online booking. Yeah. Okay. Let's just see what we can do.

1:31:47Hi, this is David. Welcome to Resolve Hotels, a luxury property in the heart of New York. How can I help you? Hi, David. I'm going to New York with my dear friend Raj. Both of us are planning to be in New York in October, first week of October 4th, checking in and checking out on the 10th. Give me some options.

1:32:11wonderful so that's checking in october 4th and checking out october 10th for two guests correct that's correct perfect let me pull up what we have available for you all right so for october 4th through the 10th i have some lovely options for you the metropolitan suite would be a beautiful choice David, hold on I'm thinking of bringing my little pup with me I love it, it's in my sister's it's going to accompany us does your hotel allow puppies to be with guests?

1:32:51Oh absolutely we're a pet friendly hotel so your pup is more than welcome to join you now let me just check if there are any specific details about our pet policy you should know. Perfect. So yes, we absolutely welcome pets. I just recommend giving us a call before your arrival if there are any special arrangements your pup might need. But you're all set to bring your little one along. So back to those room options. Just one second, one second, David. How far is Central Park from the hotel? Because I've never been to New York for a while, and I've never been to Central Park. Give me options. How far is Central Park from you guys?

1:33:34Right. Let me check that for you. I don't have that information at the moment, but I can check online and help point you in the right direction. Please note that online information may not always be fully accurate. Would you like me to go ahead and look that up? Yes. Central Park and the iconic Apple Store, please, as well.

1:33:55Perfect. Just a moment while I look that up for you. let me try that a different way for you

1:34:07okay great news you're in a fantastic location central park is incredibly close just a very short walk from us and the iconic fifth avenue apple store the one with the glass cube is right nearby on 767 fifth avenue and it's actually open 24 7 both are within easy walking distance you'll have no trouble getting to either. David, David, you're speaking so fast, man. It's a little bit borderline rude. Can you calm down and speak to me a little slowly? I'm an Indian. I don't understand the British accent that well.

1:34:43I'm so sorry about that. Let me slow down for you. Central Park is very close to us. Just a short walk away. And the Apple store on Fifth Avenue, the one with the big glass cube, is also nearby. It's also all day and night Both are easy to reach on foot from the hotel Is that better? Much better David, I'll come back to you Thanks very much These are the very key information Before I book into your hotel I'll call back maybe in a couple of hours

1:35:14Of course, no problem at all Take your time And whenever you're ready I'll be happy to help you finalize everything Just give us a call back And we'll get you all set up with a lovely room for you, your friend Raj, and your pup. Have a great rest of your day. Thanks, David. Imagine this, getting rolled out to every hotel, every hospitality, to booking.com to make my trip. You're actually bringing the businesses one new revenue stream. What you saw is the future. It's like concierge. It is a concierge. We actually call it David the concierge. and this one let me show you a grocery use case and this will be a couple of minutes and then we can stop

1:36:10Hi, I'm Ada your autonomous digital assistant welcome to Resolve Fresh Cart what would you like to cook today? Ada Hi there how can I help you with your meals or grocery shopping today? Ada I have a family visiting me tonight. And I'm planning... Got it. A family visit sounds wonderful. Are you looking for a dinner, brunch, or maybe some quick snacks? Let me know any dietary preferences or how many people you're feeding, and I can suggest some recipes. Eda, just suggest some snacks for the evening. It's a group of five or six people who will be coming.

1:36:51Sure, I can suggest some tasty evening snacks for a group of about six. Give me a moment to pull up a few options.

1:37:02Here are three crowd-pleasing snacks. The crisp and tangy fried plantain chips with lime sour cream and mango hot sauce serve six and bring a bright tropical flavor. The crunchy, salty, sweet turf mix makes about 12 cups, perfect for a snack spread. And the bold, flavor-packed, spicy chickpea poppers offer a satisfying bite with Thai basil and Sichuan peppercorns. Hey, Aida, a couple of them are vegan. Could you show me some vegan options on top of these options as well? Here are some vegan-friendly snacks you can add. The bright-fried plantain chips with lime sour cream and mango hot sauce. The hearty bean lavash triangles, the simple malafried peanuts, and the creamy ranch fun dip.

1:37:51All right, Ada, add them all to the cart, please. I can add the ingredients for each of those snacks, but the quickest way is to add the recipes to your meal plan, and then add all the combined ingredients to the cart in one step. Shall I add the vegan options to your meal plan now? Yes, please.

1:38:14It's just like the shopping. This is the future of purchase. What I'm trying to say is, you go to any of e-commerce India. Glad to think so. Let me know if there's anything else I can help you with. So imagine, I'm just holding this back. Yeah. Imagine today's boring shopping journeys, or some of us have built it across the world, added India. The thumb architecture is redundant because we hardly we hardly use the thumb and all the personalization recommendations which came with the thumb if I diffuse that then the agent is adding the cart then agent will add and go all the way to checkout and if you have a saved cart and have a wallet GPO or whatever they will check out with the trust core with the browsers within the same brand imagine a imagine any of the grocery 10 minute the giants of today.

1:39:13This is the way forward. Because the good old detail page, art click, the drop office card abandonment. I mean, today there is no context. Today if I have to build, today I have to tell the mossy, today I have to tell my wife, they will plan. They don't have any capability and the public LLM, public LLM doesn't have a commerce capability built yet. So you either build these for the retail and the industry and then plug them into ChatGPT and Claude and Grok and Perplexity and Gemini. Because going forward, every checkout is going to happen within them because the traffic is there. Yeah. Yeah. So this is the future, Raj.

1:39:56And this future is... This voice. Voice and agents moving your entire selection and context. She got it. She could have given me a men's jacket, but she understood kids first. David understood that, you know, I want a puppy. and this is not canned I can play around and do many other ways to do the demo and they'll remember your details and the more and more you book it's going to get better and better because they'll know it's actually inference context the human mind the human mind gave me a cup of coffee this looks like a coffee mug this looks like a coffee what do you call this this this is a flask flask right the human mind gets the flask this is a cup where I am drinking the water from the human mind gets it but how does a model get it it's the 100th percentile of a brain which is still getting crystallized yeah the rest of the LLMs are what 1 trillion words index and we are giving you we are giving you something I'll show you something on GPT which is very very fun and I intentionally didn't try it out because it will learn okay Okay, let me just see if this works.

1:41:19Hi, good evening. Hi, good evening. How's your evening treating you? Evening is fine. I need a few information. Sure. The Vitality Blast, the 100, IPL, the South Africa and Big Bash, are they all the same T20 tournaments in cricket?

1:41:47Let me check. So, yes, they're all franchise-based short form leagues, but they're not identical. For example, the 100 is actually 100 balls, not 20 overs. And the Vitality Blast is a county competition, not franchise-based. IPL, SA20, and BBL are closer to each other in structure. Given what we've talked about before, I think you're after like-to-like. So IPL, SA20, BBL, and the 100 line up more similarly than Vitality Blast, which is very county-centric. I think the grandeur of 100 and IPL and the entire optics of public loving these two are very similar in nature. So did you just hallucinate by equating 100 to IPL?

1:42:39Or what was that context all about? Let me double check. That's a fair challenge. I wasn't hallucinating, but I didn't separate the dimensions cleanly. Why? And why didn't you do it? And why didn't you do it? You're supposed to give me accurate, deep fact-checked point of views. Why are you just jumping to conclusion? You're right to hold me to that. I did compress too much. I should have separated on-field format from the off-field spectacle. Thanks. I'll come back. Thank you. I'll come back to you. I'm not very happy with you. Sure. Sure. Sure. See, this is the challenge. It's to a human mind, you know that the 100 is as fanfare driven compared to IPL.

1:43:28It is not the same format, but why are you confidently saying it? And there are so many examples of hallucination. The challenge is if you let them hallucinate, they'll hallucinate. I can't plug in that. And there are Air Canada issue, Walmart plugging out OpenAI. So the reason being, you have to have frontier models with the whole playbook. That's where the challenge lies. That is where the difference is making patented frontier industry-specific models and agentic capabilities. Because let me give you a basic background. I know you've done too many AI pieces, but the foundation is GPUs. Then comes models.

1:44:10Then comes orchestration where the rules engine lies. Then comes agents specific to the models then comes voice and rendering and articulation. This is the whole stack. Yeah. Whether notebook is built on this or Claude is built on this this is the stack where if you hallucinate model then the agent will say the wrong thing. These guys are right now putting every possible effort to make it non-hallucinated but they can't because Reddit is also getting picked up X's point of view is getting picked up and the internet is getting picked up. So fundamentally... Fundamentally, Shwe. It's good as a question and answers book and a session.

1:44:55It is never going to be accurate. Unless and until you build dedicated frontier models. See, every generation of technology has moved something. Yeah. Right? Earlier it was typing, then it was touching, then now it has come to voice and speaking. What's next? There's a lot of things which is getting talked about, but I'll give you an example which I genuinely believe. And I think I've seen you discussing that in Fringes, is the brain computing interface. What do you mean by that? Explain in simple words. Neuralink, where our brain, our neurons are decoded based on our thoughts, deployed into AI models and then manifested the output.

1:45:43example. What is Neuralink trying to do? They're trying to plug in a chip which is appealing the skin. Human trials are on, right? They're trying to understand how the neurons work. 83 billion neurons are. It's not going to be first time cracked properly. And a human being uses what? 20, 23, 21, 22 billion neurons? They're trying to understand the motors. So best example of how a neuron works is a neuron friction

1:46:16who told my hands does my hands have intelligence no right shoulder of intelligence no right the intelligence is here it's a combination of neurons telling my motor skills to pick up the cup okay now if you can decode that and deploy it into a model and analyze. So all of what we are seeing with neural link use cases is a paraplegic patient completely in vegetative state able to say what he wants asking the question. Maybe the whole brain never gets fried. He's able to say roti or chowl in the night. He's still able to feed. I think the world is not far away where Michio Kaku's theories are going to become real.

1:47:05What is that? If the brain thinks and I want to put a like button as an emoji I can just by thinking because the form factor is already connected right so today if I put I've seen you put temple let's let's take away the temple and the neural links of the world let's just keep that aside what is the foundation of the intelligence its brain its 1000 percentile is got deployed into AI mind space. What if the brain can communicate to a form factor? What is the form factor? Phone apps. Let's start with the basics. Phone apps have got a frequency. NFC chip, that's why a phone can be tapped. You see it everywhere and a credit card transaction goes.

1:47:55So there is a frequency which it picks up. It has got various frequencies for health parameters. NFC chip is baked in. What if I can synchronize that with a chip inside here. How does haptics work? Haptics is something... How far are you from this? Raj, the work is on. You are also aware. The work is on. Wars around COVID, we thought that Gen AI explosion is like this. None of us thought. And today, we can't operate without these LLA maps. And you just saw that I am doing industry-specific AI work. the work is very much on it is time when some of these large tech companies will take an experimental plunge like 4.2 of what GPT did it will deploy a certain piece of hardware attached to your smartphone and it starts communicating simple things like you think of a like button and you get hit a like without even saying or touching you think of communicating something to you communicating something and you know I can the sentence I'm constructing is in my head before it comes into my mouth so I can still construct the sentence in my head and if the form factor is synced I can type up that paragraph that's not far away Raj will you put that chip if it's available I will first thing I will you will I will and I'll experiment aren't you scared my wife and my kids and my close relatives who are still alive will be.

1:49:38But human trials are on. So I wouldn't be scared. Because some of us have to take the plunge and see if it works or not. I don't think it will fry my brain. At least I will not put it till Aren't you afraid you might get controlled by the chip manufacturer or the brand which is actually making a chip? I am sitting in Mumbai Raj. I will make a desi version out of it. And mitigate the risk factors out of it. But someone still get a power to control. You can own mind. Let me put it this way. Yeah. Like the screen obsession there is a theory going on that the algorithm economy is controlling my mind.

1:50:15Especially youngsters who are born today. The human mind is I think far stronger. I think the full scale neuron capability is still not the human mind uses. I think we'll still come out of it. We'll still be able to control. If you don't even plunge then how will we know where to where to draw the line you will I think as well I will

1:50:42I'll be scared and still do it I'm the first one to do all of these things same I'm like see it will see it will what is one life what if it just changes the whole thing I'm very like experimental experimental with technology and technology has to have some some users who will stretch the barriers of adoption or else how will it happen the first one it is a very scary thought I'll be scared but probably I'll do it I'll ask you a question you know because you know you are making us extremely proud what is the thinking behind becoming top 5 don't say top 10 top 5 in the world what is the thinking you and the team have allow me to have a quick question to you.

1:51:31What do you mean by thinking? What is the thinking which went? Is it the support? It is the adoption? Like why did we start thinking like this? Yes. Of course the support and adoption is there. No, it was...

1:51:47We were... We just became India number one. Yes. Like this was two and a half years ago. Yes. And I was sitting with someone very, very important. Right. that person told me that you know what Raj from India nobody in the soft power has ever reached top 10 in in the world so India has never seen anyone reach top 10 list which is any global list we have our own list and we top in that that's a different thing but any global top list we've not reached. You take director, actor, entertainers, comedians, podcasters, creators, anyone. We have never seen it. Neither in sports. Yeah, very true. The cultural, we've not seen.

1:52:36Cricket is a very segmented sport. Because it's played by few. Ten countries, yeah. So, overall in top list, which is globally adopted at a large scale, no one from India has ever reached top ten. And I was like, soft power. why like why soft power we are not there because India in the list by economy we are in top 5 right in so many other things we have reached top why specifically in soft power we are lacking and that troubled me a lot and I was like I'll do it

1:53:13and to me just that it's more than conviction it's more about pursuit and patience can we all come together we are young we can afford to take risk absolutely can we all at least pursue to take India's soft power and give it a seat at the world table that's it if we can pursue we will do it 0.01 % if we are not able to do it because we are attempting someone else is actually seeing us do that and that person will do it. So it's either us or plus one. Definitely happening. 100%. Definitely happening. So I mean in both the things I'm getting happy. I have one last question which is on everything.

1:54:07Right. Which is is what cost did you personally pay to become the CTO of one of the largest companies in the world.

1:54:28I became an average husband. I became a very average brother. I became a shit friend. And I became a very absentee father.

1:54:49because I wanted that became a purpose.

1:54:56Now, they know. But I'm basically a very loving, affectionate human being. So I can't stay without my family. I can't stay without my friends. They've built tolerance, Raj. I always say to my wife, who's been with me for 21 years, say to me that the real guy might be actually at work. This is probably the other avatar. But my boys who are young and 15 and 11, they understand. They understand. A lot of cost, Raj. Losing parents when I was... A lot of cost. Purpose to make a purpose. Yeah, cricketer. Computer science background. MBA. To make a life. To mitigate debt. Lost a lot, Raj. Lost closest of people.

1:55:46Couldn't see. My parents, days when they were not well, came back. Didn't see my father's last few days. Just spoke to him. Didn't see ma, ma mama used to call her. And she used to, she's a cricket fanatic. And then I spent the last few days with her. And before passing away, guess the last conversation I had with her. Jack Callis had retired. The last conversation she had with me was, is Gary Sobers or Jack Callis the greatest all-rounder? What a way to go, man. After 12 hours she went. I lost a lot, Raj. It's not that we are the stupid emotional Indians we are. I sometimes now sit and watch my boys.

1:56:31I'm trying to be there for them. And my wife is a phenomenal friend of mine. And I hope you get a friend in your partner someday. Because when it happens, then you know that there's somebody to back you up. and she's been phenomenal in holding me together. He knows he's a crazy person. He wants to break and you know, wants to tear and he wants to be the biggest thing in the world. He wants to build with youngsters. One thing they all love is the way I take my ecosystem and my boys, I hope, fingers crossed, they become good human beings but lost a lot. It's too big. It's beautiful podcast, right?

1:57:09So, lost a lot but I don't, I do regret. I can't, don't have the heart to say I don't regret. I'm a human being at the end of the day and I and I nowadays now I treasure every relationship every interaction professional industry I treasure them. I don't want to I need a reason that they they should call me I'll call them I'll meet up because now today I realized how important it is to be in touch with each other. It is such a simple thing but such a valuable thing and I suggest to you as a elder brother value them because life will pass you and regrets will happen I don't have the heart to say I have no regrets in life I love that because a lot of people say that they don't have any regrets I love people who are honest enough to admit that they have regrets I do I do and I live with it I live with it I live with it and I'll move forward every day doing bad things and I hope that my models regret not can use thank you so much for coming thank you thank you for doing this I really loved it same here same here thanks champ thank you sir

1:58:35nice to meet you sir good to see you as an elder brother I would I just wish healthy I'm sure you are Parents are good Everyone is great That's the most important And looking after Such a fantastic This is the age group I work with Across the world India maybe Okay I was just telling you guys A lot of joy And happiness And pride I feel about you With joy A lot of Because you know Sometimes I have it India to the globe Karo You know my I'm sure Yeah yeah yeah I see the next Somebody A few of you guys Are taking on India to the globe making us the way you guys are making us look. Thank you. We're trying.

1:59:17Thank you for watching this episode till the end. We would love to know what you liked or disliked about this episode and which guests you would like to see on the show. Let us know in the comments. Your feedback help us improve and make every episode a little better. I'll see you next time. Until then, keep figuring out.

1:59:41Thank you.