In short
Podcast Summary: Life of S*x Workers: Prostitution, Human Trafficking & Forced S*x
Host and Purpose Host: Raj Shamani Purpose: The podcast aims to explore the pressing issues that affect individuals and society, particularly focusing on opportunities in India and personal growth.
Episode Overview Episode Title: Life of S*x Workers: Prostitution, Human Trafficking & Forced S*x Guest: Gitanjali Babbar, Founder of Kat-Katha Foundation Website: [Kat-Katha](https://www.kat-katha.org/) Donation Link: [Milaap Donation](https://milaap.org/fundraisers/support-kat-katha-2) Disclaimer: The content is for educational purposes and reflects personal opinions.
Key Highlights from the Episode
Introduction (00:00 - 02:43)
- Raj introduces the episode's theme and guest, Gitanjali Babbar, highlighting her work with sex workers in Delhi's red-light areas.
The Impact of Trauma on Sex Workers (02:43 - 06:42)
- Gitanjali shares a heart-wrenching incident that led her to dedicate her life to helping sex workers.
- Discusses empowerment and the harsh realities faced by those in the industry.
Recognizing Signs of Coercion (06:42 - 09:56)
- Insight on how to identify individuals who may be forced into sex work.
- Emphasizes the lack of choice many women face in entering the industry.
Society's Perception and Treatment (09:56 - 21:21)
- An exploration of the societal attitudes towards sex work, including stigma and misconceptions.
- Discussion on how children of sex workers are treated and the cycle of exploitation that ensues.
The Cycle of Exploitation (21:21 - 33:30)
- Gitanjali narrates stories of how women are trapped in brothels and the challenges they face in escaping.
- Discusses societal norms that hinder empowerment and foster exploitation.
The Brutal Reality of Red-Light Areas (33:30 - 56:03)
- Gitanjali describes a day in the life of sex workers, painting a stark picture of their existence.
- The harsh conditions and inhumane treatment faced in the industry are detailed.
Possible Solutions and Support Systems (56:03 - 1:10:00)
- Gitanjali discusses potential solutions to combat human trafficking and forced sex work.
- Emphasizes the need for systemic changes and community support to empower women.
Behind the Scenes (1:10:00 - 1:17:06)
- Gitanjali shares her experiences and insights from working on the ground with sex workers.
- Highlights the importance of understanding the complex realities of their lives.
Closing Remarks (1:17:06 - End)
- Raj wraps up the conversation, thanking Gitanjali for her insights and encouraging listeners to engage with the topic.
- An appeal to the audience to contribute towards changing the narrative around sex work and supporting initiatives like Kat-Katha.
Key Takeaways
- Human Rights Violations: Many women in the sex trade face violence, coercion, and exploitation, often starting from a very young age.
- Misconceptions about Empowerment: There is a significant difference between choosing sex work out of desperation versus actual empowerment.
- Cycle of Exploitation: The systemic issues perpetuate a cycle of exploitation that is hard to break.
- Community and Support: Initiatives like Kat-Katha are crucial in providing support and a path to empowerment for women trapped in the sex trade.
Call to Action
- Listeners are encouraged to educate themselves on the realities of sex work, support organizations like Kat-Katha, and engage in conversations that challenge societal norms.
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This summary encapsulates the critical themes and discussions from the episode, highlighting the importance of awareness and action regarding the plight of sex workers.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00ས སྭག སྭ མས སུར ངས སྭགས འམགས གསྭུག My mom, toilet flushed, we packed the food in the fridge and we packed the food in the fridge. That we didn't get food completely? When the customer doesn't attend, we won't get food. Today's episode, our guest is Gitanjali Babbar, founder of Katkada, who helps to rescue sex workers and make their life better. Today, we will know how to start them. How do the girls get trapped in the system? Why do they get a difficult to rescue them? And how can we make a solution to sex workers? can you become a solution to this problem? Child trafficking, sex exploitation, rape In those countries, prostitution is illegal.
0:55There is 11 % of crime, and in those 3 % of the legal people. Our sons also say yes, but if we are, then we don't have rape. Why did they not happen to us? Our brain has been traumatized by them, and that they don't even think. Do you not help? The whole process is part of this. One police was trying to work,
1:43енныеapan apan
1:45I was 15 years old, I was in school uniform. 15 years old? Yes, and I was in 200 rupees. Do you have more in caste communities? I didn't see Jammu Kashmir. I didn't see Punjab from GV Road. Top cities or states? West Bengal and Andhra Pradesh. What did you see in India? That broke you. We are showing infrastructure, highways. But now let's go with me in the court and then you will see the real city. can tell me the most dirtiest in human acts which have done with these words. Oh.
2:24Before we go, subscribe to this channel so that we can create more insightful and better podcasts. And this whole show's audio experience is available on Spotify where you can follow us. Enjoy the show.
2:43What did you see in India that broke you completely? Actually, I will not say in India, Raj. I have traveled across. The one who has raised me, is actually the soul of the girl, which is similar in every place. It may be that she was working in Australia's fancy brothel. or in New York a very fancy strip club you will see on stage that she is doing out of her own choice and in Reno she is very smart and she is standing in the chair but when I met that girl in Reno the other day for me that is an unforgettable moment I was in the car and I went with her and we met her and she was very fancy and wearing a nice dress and she was very and she smiled and next morning she called I need you and we ran to see her she was so bad and her hair was all and I had something in my bag to eat I think half burger something like that he was so hungry he looked at me and I was like do you have something to eat and I was like it's already eaten he ate it in one bite and my brain didn't process what was happening in the evening and then they were working with one month they had a room where they were taking the girls and they can pick up stuff once a month they will take the girl there and they took her there she picked up ration and everything and she was taking it like that it was very confusing I asked the person how is this possible she was looking so confident so happy last night and she said she was drugged completely she was not in her senses last night and the person who drugged her he was looking at her from the roof he was keeping an eye on her and now when she comes to the heart she comes to the heart and she has nothing in her house she didn't have water to drink at home we were taking water but when we go to the girl as a customer we thought we would have come to a place where it's legal where the girl is doing their choice and the same condition as in Delhi also when you go to Delhi When you go to the court, girls will call them, come, come, come.
5:39You say, they have to be necessary. I am just serving. Many girls come and say, we are serving. You are not serving. They are here and they are calling them, come, come. Because that's what now they are being told, they are being forced to do. They have no option. You will not come, you will not get food. and if they will do it in the sorrow then you will not take them and if you will not take them then they will be sitting for 16, 17, 18 hours in your struggle and then they will get to sleep or they will get to the rice or water so ultimately she has to pretend as if I am very happy and I will give you all the pleasure and I will make you happy come with me in the room so I think what happens when you're with your dad and when you're with your dad you're sitting together you get to understand that the world is so small so are we lying about progress of course do you think that there's no progress or empowerment or exploitation I would say that it's a very good life and our world we are all hollow like we say there is no content and how much content is you open your youtube you have content but there is no content we are probably showing progress we are showing infrastructure we are showing highways we are showing buildings we are showing everything but let's go with me and then talk to me what is the infrastructure there, what is the water there, what is the hygiene there, what is the education there.
7:31You will see the real city of the city. Gandhi ji said that if you see any country's success, go to the villages. I say that if you see any country's success, go to the slum area or go to the red light area. You will know that the city of Bombay is a very fancy dream of the world. But the dream is all about. so then why did they dream of their dreams broke in childhood so in Kamaatipura almost 40-50 thousand women will become everyone heroine do you think that the upper class middle class rich people privileged people are all in denial or in silence are all in ignorance that they don't know are they ignoring they know they're just ignoring it they know it also some people have no clue about it and some people are denying it what are they denying?
8:35that many people ask me and say that that women have their own habit of doing this work what will you do? and they also know that that women have no habit of doing this
8:55I have to say that I have to go and ask for a profession to give me a job. The sex work can opt out of their choice. But I am going to give me a job and I don't know. I have seen 99.99 % of the women in Gb Road. I got all together, heart to heart. I didn't get one.
9:23Female She Is all women go to the police station that I'm doing it from my own Why? Because if he didn't say it, he will be the person The police are in the meeting If he told me that I'm not from my own then the police will call the owner that you don't know the girl Then the owner will kill her So our system is so bad So what is this denial? What is this corrupt? What is this? What is this? so you're telling everybody jitne loog sex work kertae sab ko force kia gaya hai jitne loog sex work kertae so agar aap katkatha ke baare mein bhi pooch ho gae joh humara vision that is to end forced sex work jitne loogo ko force kia gaya hai agar hum agar hum ek educated ladki se ja kar baat kare jisne sab kuch jaan liya zindagi me usne padha hi kar lhi now she wants to earn more money and she feels that by selling my body in my own way کوئی اور میرے شریر پر نہیں عدیقار کر رہا ہے میرے خود کا عدیقار I'll choose a man and I will go that is something very different but when we go to brothels تو بتا چلتا ہے کہ اس کو پتا بھی نہیں تھا وہ 12 سال کی 10 سال کی تھی اس کو آئیڈیا بھی نہیں تھا کہ میں ایسی کسی جگہ پہ جا رہی ہوں اور جب وہ یہاں پر آئی تو اس کو تب بھی نہیں پتا تھا کہ مجھے یہ کچھ کرنا ہے اور اسے فورس کیا گیا مارا گیا forcefully دارو پلائی گئی years to us to keep us to keep us to keep we put in the mouth and we put in the mouth that we will be in the mouth funnel funnel type that we will be in the mouth and we will be in the mouth 30-40-50 clients attend per day per day I have met a woman she said I have 70 clients attend so now you can imagine about her body that is like a dead body people will come eight minutes they will go out come eight minutes they will go out five minutes six minutes they will go out and she's lying like a dead body now if you say this that women are going to fight for their rights how is it possible in our country tell me the most dirtiest inhuman acts who you saw or saw who did boys biting their breast for failing and failing and còn one kid has told me that it so hurt in dream village it was very plain between the make of that it's a hitting कटने से मुझे धर्दनी होती उसमें बुला ही को कि मैं negativi मुझे काहनी बता देंगे थि तो मेरा कभी चहरा बिना नील के हुआ नहीं हिए तो that's what I'm saying कि brain के साथ कहला जाता है तो वहां पिरमारना पीपना मैं एक दीदी मुझे ऑनिया बता देनगे थी
12:43I will not give food if the customer will be 3-5 hours, then I will go to the toilet and go to the food. Do you get food all the time? When the customer will not attend, you will not get food. When you will not take a certain number of money, you will not get food.
13:05I mean, I see how they prepare them. I was a little child, 16 years old, in this room, very jolly. And I was very fun to speak English. I was very young. When I was a teacher, I was learning about my own teacher. So, I was talking about English. And the owner didn't say that I didn't study. I didn't say that. I didn't study it. I didn't study it. So, I was studying it for a minute. I was going to attend four times, at least, at least. 4. sir my name i am sir my lady And it will go. And customers will return. Her pants will reach. His weight will take again. The teacher shows how to approach this little bit.
13:53So they learn very much. I feel like you're very values for the 75 % of things. pot favourhardy. Ambire my hesitation. I feel like that 10 people are coming in the woods. in a temple. It's a very beautiful temple. You just feel that something in our life comes to our faith. Our faith is up to God. We start fighting. What is your life? What is your faith? What is your faith? What will you do? But there is hope and hope. But you said that you can't rescue. We don't do it. That's our policy. Why can't rescue? Why can't rescue? I don't have trust in raids and rescue operations. I have seen so many raids.
14:43We keep our women in the police station. Then they follow the court. Then they send them to Nari Niketan. And I have heard Nari Niketan's stories on GB Road. They tell me that I will keep in the court, but I will not send Nari Niketan. Why? Because there is such a bad thing. What do you think? We don't do harm in Nari Niketan. we don't do it. We also send out to us at night and it's a controversial thing. People can raise voice against me. But that's what I have heard from them. There was a Didi, a very beautiful singer. He was a musician. He stopped singing for 10 years. When I met her, I introduced this to him.
15:25I talked to him 10 years ago, that he was very beautiful. I said, Didi, never listen to me. I said, I don't sing for 10 years. I said, why? She said since Iối hughal in a Foster fold for once called three months of a meet up for twenty years. She gave me the way to the Lordna. She said after making me see what happened. She said通行了 in one night as she pushed down through my swear words. She had made the way so 미лось. I'm actually always Kern fasting. There's nehme off and share.
16:02отm letter inside. I was sending us to the people. But what we have to do is say, I was told that I was going to tell them. Because to them, to them, to them, to them, to them, to them, to them, to them, to them, to them, to them. So, they said, I was told that my life from my life. That's why I was going to leave. That's why I was going to die. But I didn't say that. So, our system is so bad. If we are going to promise that, when we are going to leave a baby, then we will take it. care of her we will stand with her unless she feels ki ma popis confident or may kuch kar sakti a garam wo promise kar rheye then yes i'm up for reads but agar am yeh bholl rheye ki rates karne ke baad amun ko nariniketan bhej rheye aur phir kya hota hai nariniketan se wun wapis koathe me hati hai jav uska khatam hojata hai period to owner usko ja kar bholta hai abgar to ja nai sakti tu aapne ki jav ho ghar jayegi toh ghar walay toh accept he can't do it.
16:59So what do you have to do? If he has no place, he comes in the house. And then he has a bad condition because the owner gives his name money, he says, I have given your name 2 ,000 ,000 rupees, now you are doing 20%, 30%, 40 % so he goes into his whole life, he doesn't reach the head. So it's a trap. But can you not directly go let's say You talk so many girls and so many girls You talk so many girls You talk so many girls You talk directly You talk so much You talk so much Yes When a girl says That I have to get out of my choice Now because we have 14 years We have to work with our work We have to understand that And we work with owners also we have never seen the owners that we have never seen differently we think the owners who were also in the same way so we don't look at them differently and when they become a relationship and someone told me to get out then we talk with the owners that they want to get out now tell me how you are doing and now we have so many new children recently two children and we have called the owners
18:22and we reached there so there are two owners and the third owner says you take it and that girl is out of us but it took years it took me 15 years it took our team 15 years 15 days 15 years so many nights and so many days I was told to make a rap and we thought we would have raid and we would have left and then we will give them a good job and we will teach them something new they don't need to learn to learn when I see our children in dream village we have no warden in dream village they make their own rules they know their lives they know where they live so who are they? the children who want to read licked licked society how does it treat you?
19:19normal schools admission no, it's difficult when we started 15 years I had a lot of schools in the way and there were a lot of good schools which are very modern and they say they say we don't do it and we welcome diversity diversity we welcome discussions with children I said I'm as a principal maybe ready but maybe my teachers will not be ready maybe teachers will be ready but maybe children will not be ready children will not be ready but maybe parents will not be ready in all you will not be ready because if you are ready then you will not be ready Yes. There was one school that was almost 45 minutes away from G.B.
20:21Road. It was an aid school, but it was a very good school. They told me to send my children. I won't tell my teachers what their background is. I'll tell them that they didn't study until today. They have to study. So my children went to school. After one year, my children said to me, ma 'am, we are tired of hiding the identity. We often say, why don't you come here? Why don't you come here? We don't judge our teachers. We will tell you that we are in the house. I called my teacher, sir, my children are talking about this. Sir, if they are feeling the children, then tell them. They went and told them.
21:02Those teachers were so emotional, because they loved their children,
21:19Tell me how does it start? basic have learned whereas Where does it start? How does it start? Which age does it start? Where? What is the cycle? What is the route? How does it go? No girl directly goes on the GB road or no other brothels or red light areas So where does it come? Which age does it come? Which is the same? That's what we see in Hollywood We do a little sensationalize कर देते हैं, थोड़ा romanticize कर देते हैं, but actually stories कुछ -कुछ वैसी सी है, basic story जो common हो, सब में common नहीं है, राज, give me two-three stories, 3000 औरतों की बात करूँ, तो हर एक औरत की काहनी बहुत different है, जिन दो बच्चेव को हमने rescue करा था, वो दोनों GB road पर I was living in the kitchen.
22:22The bathroom was in her room. There was a tree in the garden. There was a small tree in the garden. There was a small camera on the stairs. They were living in the bathroom. When the aunt was going to go to the bathroom, she would say, oh no, don't come down. She was living up. She was looking out, she would go out. When she would go out, she would go down. She had a child. She was the only time she was 9 or 10 years old. she was in our house she was in this profession she was in this profession so she was in our community there is a big community which is Rajasthan and MP so there are these big community so they are the big community they say that our girls have their choice but when I look at it there is a Neemach belt which is that?
23:12which is Neemach area in Madhya Pradesh? Reshampura and Gualier. Oh. And all these areas are all. Water field. Yes, it's on the border. I mean, Gualier and all these are together. So, there came her mother. So, first of all, she worked there in her village. And then she came to Gibirod. So, her son and all of them were here. There were other girls of other girls. So, she was a girl of her girls. So, her two children were there. she was five when she started coming to me maybe she was less than four or five years she was learning to speak new and the older she was nine years old but when she started learning she started to become dreams and then she started to say she didn't do this so the other women started to say how are you talking about your daughter so she was talking to our older she was a little dark so, she I am going to give her eggs Nieges and take her eggs and take her eggs in theach, She will skip as time for money to rip out..
24:19tying up from Whenever, toys get an issue up after returning to this. it was on the hook so I thought because she got asked she fell this place and tough in mallards so if she didn't getuna gone she didn't go to the exposure still had..the school had no idea 성 nuo it NOT if my son is an adult my das Hospitalенным ul where they should enough She has to get the information on her life when she's 17-18 years old. She has to get the information on her community. She tells the community that she's young children. Look, she's married. She's married. She's married. She'll work on a house. She'll be a girl.
25:06No, she'll get the clothes. We'll get the clothes. We'll get the gifts. We'll get the dance. We'll get the dance.
25:17will she choose of course she doesn't know that she can give me what to do but she doesn't know but she's the first girls and now girls have started to see so now in the girls they've been a role model but she's silent now she's the girls silently They are simply singing that I want to study. But now the voices are so strong that they don't come out of the way. But what age do they give to sex work? If you can see GB Road, if a kid is already in sex work and their daughter is born, then the owner takes the daughter to take it. But by 18, 19, does it? No, no, no. 11, 12. They start having sex? Yeah.
26:1011 year old? yeah 11 year old and they get a lot of money i've heard hormonal injections and all of that yeah they start giving them so by the time they reach 14-15 you'll think that the girl is 23-24 years 25 years because his body is form of course the girl will get more money than a small girl how else if someone doesn't win the family's family then people come out of the world How do they live? They are different. I think they are 18-19 years old. They are one of their children who tell their story. Their husband married her in the village. Proper marriage. They married a band-bazay. Their child was born.
26:55First child was born. She was 18 and a half at that time. Their husband came and told us to live in Delhi. In Delhi, they took a camera. It was called the name of Bajanpur. She lived for a year. Happy family. I was not a child, after that, I was a child. I was a child 18 days and I took him to the court. He said, my child is here, and I saw my husband, I'm crying, I'm crying, I'm crying, I'm crying. He took him to my name 21-22 ,000 and he fell down. I didn't understand what happened.
27:57today she is 58 and now it's not easy the world is very complicated tell me why today a fraction of society you think that you can only phone and police will be internet it's not easy internet you can only talk to someone where you will get the help from somewhere. People will help you. And they can go outside the court. They can go a little bit further. You can get help. I think a fraction of society is a fraction of society. Why can't they go out? There was a few years of trying to go out. There are such stories in many people. There were so many people in the street. There were so many people in the street.
28:50They had noticed. The police were all in this part, this part of the part of the street. in which there are 4 cases and 비트�. G.B.I close by chair and tall small leaves. The whole job of springs took lower and both ends Kenyaeducates immediately. And that's why we are talking about someone else. He's got the dead body and took him. So that's why I'm telling you. We are living in a very content. But actually, if we talk about it, we have been traumatized by them. And we have been a slave to them. That they don't even know. I'm scared of them. Absolutely. but I get most of the people that they don't get hurt police help police part is this process every area every generation after generation every police can get a little love I had a police I had a police officer in the past 15 years I had a police officer who was trying to work so they got transferred
30:24subscribe Each party is so much challengingGA losing
30:35we have so open we talk stereotype Every city has a place. Every area of police can give it to this. It's just one area of people who may call us, who may be with them, but the other people can't do anything. No one can do anything. I've been 15 years old. I've seen one DM, when they came to Covid. I've never seen anyone.
31:19you
31:4516 cylinders were ruined 1-2 people He saw the dossi He took He went He found His Supreme Court has said that every sex worker should have all the documents but when they get to the people, they ask 10 questions who have no answer. Now we're trying to meet with the government and try and if there's a good officer, he'll help. But if there's no one then again, it's a long journey. It's a battle. And it should not be a battle in a country like ours where we're talking so much about success or empowering of women, empowering of children. But it's a gray area. I'm waiting for that. No politician is always up.
33:02Why don't they do it? People are paying money. Everyone is paying money from the street. When a girl comes to the house, it's only a little bit of a girl. Police is also a little bit of a girl. Politicians are also a little bit of a girl. Everyone is a little bit of a girl. So the girls are running, so their jeep is also full of a girl. One of them... That's who you're going to do? No politician. No politician. I'm waiting for a minute. I'm not met. Now I'm horny. Every client I got asked will people from this? Really? Why do they keep on saying what? Why are they going after him? By paying back You should know that!
33:46! that they can exploit them and they can exploit them and they can do it they have so much time to do it but it's like a reality in the world so the girls will sit openly so you can see them that you can sit and ask them if you go to the house then you can go to the house then you can go to the house then you can say how can you say that but this is the fact that they have so much they have trained and exploitation and they say that they say yes, they say no, if they are if they are if they are but they are they are
34:35let's celebrate your birthday genuinely people are unaware and they ignore them they are people are they are Have you ever asked? I have also volunteers Come on I have a lot of volunteers I always say If there is a new volunteer I always say I always say I always say Yes, we are We are gone But we have never We have to pay for sex So why are we gone? My friend was doing I was waiting for the next I was standing I was sitting outside I was watching But why are we gone? Why are we gone? Because we are not We are not watching That world In college when we are in the new D.U. in the first year we are going to go to GB Road a very big wow factor that you didn't even see in the clothes what did you see in life so we don't want to stay behind we don't want to look uncool that you didn't see in the clothes you didn't see that you never bought sex oh my god how is that possible in life really so that's what bought sex is cool yeah for real yes I mean I don't know why are you talking like this Because I don't know, I haven't met any girl.
35:43And I have a lot of friends that are very much in this area, there are many villages, many villages, very poor people. There are many friends who are farmers, and they are from there to the wilderness. I have huge friends. perspective
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36:10I have never heard I don't know why I have never heard I have never heard I have never heard I don't know why this was the dialogue and I was like where are you talking about that was my my 10th class my friend can't get it I heard this I heard this I heard this I know from the beginning from the beginning I know genuinely when I'm saying it I feel like cool inhuman people are definitely but I think after one age is it no I was 14-15 I was so cute in school uniform in the nicker in the 15th I was so cute in the middle I was so cute How wrong? He took 200 rupees and he kept 200 rupees. And he kept 200 rupees and gave him the money.
37:14He said, why keep 200 rupees? He said, he said, he kept 200 rupees. He said, I have to keep 200 rupees. I have to keep these girls. I have to remember the money. So, I remember the money. You did a good job. He was such a cute person. and I also thought that the child of 15 years will also be less than that I thought it was a small child where did you come from? I don't know I see a lot of girls in college but when you talk to them they are like do we want to do this? no they always say one thing where to go so we give them an honorarium which is very minimum I'm talking about the girls, who clients, what do they say?
38:06They are normal for them. I'm talking about the awareness of the girls. They are not aware. They are not aware. They are not aware of the girls. Some girls are like going to go to the girls. I have to do it. I need to do it. office after the office they come to their corporate bag and then they go to their house is there any caste communities in the community no no is it I didn't see caste community no no like sex workers are they from specific caste specific community poverty because there is no awareness there is no but there is no there is no because I have heard There are many girls coming, such as I have seen a girl from Punjab in GV Road.
39:03I have seen a lot of girls from Andhra, West Bengal, Nepal, Bangladesh, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh. I have seen a lot of girls in these areas, but I have seen a girl from Jammu Kashmir. I have seen a lot of girls from North East, but I have seen a lot of girls from Nepal. Nepal is not on the north east but not on the gb road there are not many I don't think there are but there are not many but the rest of the city is the most poor city there are top cities or states West Bengal and Andhra Pradesh are two top in Delhi the most women in which one comes from Rajasthan. It's an acceptable profession.
40:00We say that our girls are themselves. It's an acceptable profession. It's an acceptable profession. Today it's acceptable. Yes, I've told you. Now, there are phones that come from there. Smart phones. and smartphones after this information is also acceptable our dad is in dream village last year which hotel I am staying he was also with me we were nominated for an award his daughter was also 14-15 years old now he was 15-15 years old and when she came we were from flights and his daughter posted her photos and she was very happy first flight eater, everything. So, he got a phone in front of me.
40:50You said that you will put it in the house. So, why are you taking the bomb? Don't try to do it. Don't try is the first night when you allow a man for the girl. Don't try to say that. He said, no, brother. Don't put it in my daughter. Why are you taking the bomb? Why are you taking the bomb? That's the work in the beginning. So, I mean, today also, and she had to fight her community now she has left her community how many of you if you have a daughter in your daughter she is breaking down our culture is breaking down today she is a daughter she is a fighter she studies in one of the best schools so many bright children how are you ready father and mother are not father he is not he is not a partner he was a customer Marie was born, who loved her or loved her.
41:45But if there is a community, there are both parents. In the community, where the parents are acceptable, how do they accept my daughter? Yes. It's normal. If they don't do it, they think, what are you doing in life? You have to go home. I have to disown my family. Because she didn't put her daughter. What's the brutal truth about Red Light Area That brutal truth That people don't believe in India But it's true Truth is that we are studying and studying And there are daughters They are always burning And we are selling And we are making it And we are creating a part of it But we have created a image That we are working on the empowerment For the girls I have told you A 11-year-old child If she is a day and night I have to pay for it, I have to pay for it.
42:42For me, I have to pay for it. For me, I have to pay for it. It's a utopian world. Generally, I live under such people, where they are fighting for basic food. Our government is talking about it, and people are talking about it. People say that, okay, we will support you, we will fund you, but let out of 500 girls. I said, I want to take out three thousand people. But there's a nexus that helps someone to help. If there's one girl, now there's a case in the police station recently. Our sister arrested her. And I know her, I know her from 15 years. And I know she doesn't have to stay there. But still she's one of the owners of a brothel.
43:33she had to make her daughter a doctor she sent her a house 4-5 years ago under some case she had to marry her daughter she said what will happen to her daughter she stopped her in jail and this is only because she hurt her ego of one of the policemen she told me she was killed in Bombay she called me she was so killed she was so killed she was so killed on my mother keep neither see the money nor see the money why? ego what ego? you don't think that something you don't have to send money you don't send money or something else it's illegal brothel keeping is illegal sex work is not illegal if you are adult, you are above 18 and you are doing it out of your own choice and if someone doesn't keep your money So it's legal, you can do it.
44:32Yeah, I mean pimping is illegal. Broker in the middle of it is illegal. One place to make a house where you go to the house and there are a lot of girls that is illegal. But if you are an independent woman or a man and you want to take money and directly sex with someone, that is legal. That is legal. And you are doing privately and you are not doing soliciting in public. That is legal. But the clothes are illegal. They are going to do it. What do you think? Do you think this legal thing? Prostitution?
45:51they can just go to police and be like in terms of the house nisaka ni hoga. But I'm asking. But now you don't have to go to police. Now it's illegal. Now it's illegal and all the money comes from. If it's illegal, maybe somebody can fight. Do you think? I'm asking. I read a report. Crime rate in countries. Crime against women and rape rates. In those countries, prostitution is legal. So, child trafficking, human trafficking, sex exploitation, rapes crime against women in saba ka to jin jin European countries ka sab se zahada kyunki Europe mein bhout sari countries jaha pe legal hai to vaha pere aisa hai ki jin countries mein illegal hai vaha pe 11 % hai crime and jin mein legal hai vaha pe sif 3 % mujhe aisa lagta hai ki legal karne ke baad it's like wou eek gap hota hai na ki kuch loogokko legalization se zarur fayda mil jayega but under the cover things are happening if it's legal to be able to 12 years old then they will be able to but do you think crimes, rapes these all come on?
47:04it's like it's like people say our sons but if we are you are a child you are not rape this is a thought how much my it's like if my daughter I am I will rape you so that you will be saved. And we are talking about the empowerment of young girls. So that's my general question. We have accepted that this work will never be finished. Have we accepted? A lot of people tell me it's the largest, like oldest profession. Oldest profession in the world is sex. But it wasn't a profession profession. It was taken very respectfully at one point of time. and we were very respectful of our courtesans and wives and we were very respectful of our wives but today it was not so why do we think that the need is so strong that they are violent even if they are so why do we make sex workers and put them in coat or not their violence will be out of their wives we are now it is that we are now that we are saying that it will be it will be see around the world this is true this is not the thing about India it's not a men and women issue because the world is more women are into this that's why it's a women issue it's human greed it's bad so we are not what we are saying it's not a conversation it's a reality of the world कि हाँ कुछ लोग हैं खराब I'm asking कि क्या उसका solution है better करना because emotional level, humanitarian level is horrible जो आपने बोला कि मान चुके हैं dead society क्या लड़के मतलब इतने खराब हो गए कि वो इतने violent रहेंगे कि ये करो नहीं तो वो बरबात कर देंगे society that's a very good thought to have so the girl is right but now the reality is let's face that that change society change better and poor people better and 3 days better time today in which society in which country when the decriminalization is sex workers prostitution there is drop women against crime in the US it's illegal but in US there was an experiment in Rhode Island 1989 it was 1980s where 30 % drop came out when it was decriminalized then in 2009 it was criminalized and then went up New Zealand overall sex workers health, HIV cases conditions, trafficking all better when it was decriminalized
50:09So I'm asking you from that point of view Do you think
50:25I'm asking you I'm asking you You're watching films and you're watching your life Because you're watching but now how many people go to the court our children are literally crying that no one comes to the court now in every house in every hotel everywhere people are available with all the new apps and is that legal? if you are 18 and above and if you are doing it, it's legal no one can say anything no one can say it but why don't do it? they don't do it if they are hiding today the
51:31Explain me this. How. Because mentality is there, baby. No, just like you said, that people go to GB road and Koto. Okay. You told me that they go to buy. They go to get out. Now, those who are independently going to hotels and going to all of these things are happening. 18 and above. How do they start?
51:57Out of choice? Out of choice. Lot of people. How much will it be? Look, I don't work with them. I'm very much. So, it is a very guess. But I think it will be 50-60 % voluntarily. How does a girl make a part? Because if we talk about it in colleges, if this one girl is into it, she will tell her friends, if it's fun, we'll go with men, we'll spend the night, have fun in a good hotel, and if you want to join in, come join in, without looking at the risks. But he joins. And that's why I'm telling you, that he knows where to go. After that, if something happens, then it's an accident. It's a good thing.
52:42If I pay one girl, but five girls came and they raped the girl, then that is an incident. But otherwise, he knows that I'm going to go to jail. I will use condoms. I will go at this time. I will come back at this time. I'll wear this these will be my demands my body is straightforward I'll keep so much money but yeah so that's legal right but if the police has got that girl then what is the problem in our country? that the client is criminalized the client will be considered criminal but in any case which I see especially where you should follow There is also a woman Look at the criminal Look at the victim The woman doesn't look at the victim The law says that in a case The woman is the victim And the customer is the criminal Because he is buying sex But the customer You have to go like this You can go and call you Because the customer Take money at that time The customer is running The girls are getting and the people who are not being raped and the people who are being raped and the people who are being raped Why does the client not have a problem?
54:02No, it's not in our country I've seen that the client is being raped If they are being raped, they are being raped and in some cases, they are being raped If the client goes down to the story we had a child in the house they were growing up they were recording on cameras they had a shock I was recording the phone and I was recording the police. The police officer came and the owner said that the client is standing down. He said that he was taking 20 ,000 rupees and he was taking 20 ,000 rupees. He said that he was taking 20 ,000 rupees. He said that he was taking 20 ,000 rupees. Now, give him 20 ,000 rupees.
54:43Or you can take 20 ,000 rupees. Actually, it's only 2 ,000 rupees. for the police. The police said to me, I will tell you, you will have 12 ,000 and 8 ,000. This is the whole thing. What happened? I went to DCB. They told me, it's a grey area. We can't enter into it. We only work in white and black. It's a grey area. crime is approved no crime is not no crime is no legal thing no crime is no crime is this discussion government will do we will just keep no crime no crime no crime no crime no police 20 ,000 this is not crime it's corruption corruption is not crime corruption is crime
55:50It's a different world, Raj. When I was first gone, I couldn't sleep for four days. I didn't believe that it could be such a life. Tell me a day in life. A sex worker's life that lives in a hotel. Every day. Every hotel lives in a different way. But if I tell you in general,
56:35I will tell you,
56:43I will tell you, I will eat something, I will not give up, and then they will make up for 2-5 hours. And when you see, I can't even see them. They make up a bit transformed. They will feel like they are in depression. And suddenly you will feel so beautiful. My mind has been gone a lot. Then they make up and pick up. They will be around 9-9. they go down the stairs and then they bring clients on the beach and then they go down the stairs and then they go down the stairs and then they go down the stairs No, there are dedicated rooms which are called encounter rooms so there are 3-4 rooms in a few quarters which are more clients and there are more rooms so they go down the stairs 10-12 minutes, 13 minutes and then the customer pays and then the customer goes back then they go down they work the whole night in the morning at 7am their body is broken again like I said I said something to eat I don't eat I don't think I'm sleeping I'm drinking tea night so you'll get the tea you'll get the tea on the JV Road and you'll get a lot of tea because they'll get a tea so they'll get a tea so they'll get a tea so all these things There are some things that come in the morning, which are the door only 11 o 'clock.
58:16Then they will open up, then they will clean up with water. If you go to the 11 o 'clock, you will get the stairs. You will get the stairs. You will get the stairs. Then you will go to the stairs. You will go to the stairs. You will go to the stairs. You will not have negativity in the stairs. Then you will open up the stairs. 12.12. Then after the kids, they are ready to go and they are ready again. They are going to sit down. They are not allowed to go down. Every camera is a different game. There are a lot of young girls who are not allowed to go down. Why? They are going to run away. They will be pointing to them.
59:02They will stay up. They are not allowed to go down. Down there will be a woman who will grow up and will surrender.
59:3740's above we will be able to save you we will not be able to save you we will be able to save you if someone has told me that this is what I need and they will start the fight and they will say that we will save you and if you are going to save you then you will also go into the inside that moment when police they are not listening to me when they are in the raid they are in the emotion they are not listening to me we are only saying that peaceful raids when I was the first raid experience I had a phone at 11.30 and 12.00 I started working on the new G.B. Road I didn't have to do anything I didn't have to do anything I was just going because I was working with my friends so people were getting to know there so I had a phone at 11.30 one of the most popular brothel that you call this girl and they took the name and said that and I called him to the police station.
1:00:43We were sitting in three and four people, who were NGOs and had a girl with one another. They came inside and said, sir, this time the cover was not good. So they said, sir, I think I did something before. And now the conversation is going on. NGOs and people thought that I am with the police. I thought I was with the police. I was sitting there as a spectator. I didn't know anyone. I didn't know anyone. Suddenly the police... I said stupid... I said, sir, how did you kill the raid at night? You don't know. You are doing everything in the young people. You think that I am only I. I will change the world and I will do everything.
1:01:29So, where did you come from? He saw the NGO that you are with. I said, no, it's your hand. No, it's not me. I said, Madam, we had no objections. We can do raids at night. If we have a woman, and if we keep attention in raids, there's nothing wrong. Okay. And they said, go out. And now you have your card. I didn't have any card. I didn't have anything. My friend went to my house. I told you, give me your card. And he worked with a very big NGO. with her work, so she gave her card, she did research and said, that's a great injury. I won't take the name. So, she sent me respectfully outside. Maybe she would say something.
1:02:14But, I told the lady that she called me. She was in her panty coat. I remember she was wearing a beautiful light blue, sky blue blouse and a panty coat. And I said, where are you? We won't wear our panty. she would go like and close them in court and close off and she was very beautiful and she would go like, why? I'm no 18 year old, I'm not old for them but when the bidder is etched so they watch neither nut or we will only go over to the columns such a checking
1:02:55and one of them was pregnant and she abortion but we say legally we say that when raids are so female you need to you know you and I have told you that all are just written I have not seen it I have told you when I was a child that my mom is so hurt so much and neither nor the or the so make it legal do it when the system is so corrupt and what all goes like I was watching this one movie I was watching this one I was watching this one I was watching this one love Sonia. Yeah. But in movie like what I saw that this is not a daily life. Daily life is more than 50 things that you can give you a different way of injections so that is where you can go through that pain.
1:03:58Then you can eat food all the time. You can't give it. You can't give it. You can't give it. Then you can get clients that have all the demands. They can kill it.
1:04:17that happens right so you are again almost close to a virgin then operations then 50 times you give them so that you don't have that then many abortions like life is just not that you have to stop there and you have to sex and you have to do sex above all 50 things which is brutal that's what I saw in the movie and then if you look pretty then you have to then you have to send another place then you have to do operations and you have to and you have to play with it and that's that's a day in a wreck and I spoke to some somebody who's an activist as well and I told them that in movies how many people will be with it I was like it's not even a question it's just how many times is it and you feel all of this happens yeah we booked PVR and we took a lot of children's I could not stop them from crying after the movie.
1:05:39They cried like hell for two to hours. If you see these these things, they will see you so happy and strong. After the movie, they were broken and they asked why did we show this picture? Because they thought that we have lived that pain. You show that pain in such pictures. So now, our dream village is , thats
1:06:36земlet , Now how do you understand them? Daddy, you have to let go somewhere. And you need help for that. You won't be able to do it on your own. But it must be so hard. It is. You said something which is cigarette butts. What does it mean? They put cigarette butts to burn it. They get fun out of it. When Daddy calls and cries. There was a case. Recently I was told that Daddy killed so much in the room that she died. killed her and she cried she retained her and she left the vest and she said she had and heard all women if she had 5 days and she went didn't understand she just sat down
1:07:25so murder even but now happened so when I feel like she sees If you see people, on one hand I'm struggling that how can we make our world a little more loving and a little more humble. But when I see those people there, there's no difference in their life. There are rates of life. There's money. Every one of them, they're good for 100-200 rupees. I can do anything with her. I can take a small child confidently inside, kill him, kill him, kill him, what I can do, he can do it. Under it. Now, things are changing a little bit. A little bit. Some owners, like those who arrested him, I do a lot for those owners.
1:08:22How big is this business? I think it's the world's second largest economy. It's huge. there is a lot of money then it's going to be right where are they? who will make money? what are the stakeholders? I think starting from politicians to who are our Dalal to policemen who are buying and who are identifying in the city generally I heard that le le usually old women who identify them when they come in train the girls, the coaches, the teachers, all of them involved in the train because they are very high. If they are 28 hours of the journey, they are very high in train then the teacher knows that they are going to this way.
1:09:20Then the people who are connected to the railway station, but the people who are connected with them then all of them are the valiant, owner and the owner of the owners who are the small owners all of them all of them are paid and everyone is closed I experienced that police know that a small child is and they know that a little girl is coming but I have heard it in Kolkata that they are not taking the same in Kolkata but I am not sure about it Delhi में तुआ रही है तो fix क्या है? How do we fix this? आज ये खराब, state बहुत खराब इसमें लड़कों की भी बहुत गलती है लड़कों की भी गलती है और जो, I'm not talking about victims I'm talking about जो उनको बेच रही है Men, women, both more men than women system की भी गलती है
1:10:28What's the fix now? How can we shift the mentality? Of what? Of everybody. We can put the kids in this world. This is the need for the world. that we need our country. We are so powerful. I am so powerful that I can buy a girl in 2 ,000 ,000 ,000. And I can buy it. This is a shift. How do you do this shift? Talking about it. I think you said to me, we are talking about it in the podcast. I have many Instagrams on my Instagram. I can show you that I am going to marry me. Please, let me marry me. but can you talk about this? There are many lawyers who want to work on this but this issue is always why are you talking about awareness?
1:11:28Because we are talking about that the girls are saying that the girls are they want to break the cage if you can become their voice they want to be heard they have the mind that someone is in their and listen to my story. So how can they help? Let's say you work in this. Now, all the viewers are watching, if there are 0.01 % of people to help or many people to help, if there are one person to help, how can they reach out to you? How can they reach out to us? We have our website, we have our Instagram. They can reach out to us. People volunteer with us. You reply to all Instagrams and stuff? Yes, yes.
1:12:07We'll put your details here. Yes, yes. In the description. Yes, we reply to everybody in fact we try to reply to everybody in fact my team is not very big but the people are very strong in this effort we ignore many messages we ignore I don't say that we reply but those who come to us are helping that we need to reply and if there are more people let's say lawyers volunteers if lawmakers are watching this politicians are watching this entrepreneurs and others are watching, people are watching who have to fund, or police are watching, anyone is watching. There are people, if they want to help, they can directly reach out to you.
1:12:49Of course. They can help and become part of this. And everyone can work in their own space. For an example, recently I had a mail in Kashmir. And that person said, I want to replicate Katkatha's work in Kashmir. I can see that there are girls here. and all these things. So we will be supportive. But the problem is that, like you said, there are many fundraisers for fundraising. But I have seen a lot of that that many people don't come forward to fundraising. But if we come, we would want to go to every single place. I also want to be in Kashmir. Why not? We want to support that in Kashmir. We will love to support that in Kashmir.
1:13:34People say that you are sitting on the destination, why not go to the source stations. But it's like sometimes your realities are saying once and once. As long as you are doing it, you should do it better. But if people will come to support and if people will come up and say we are with you, then I think I feel like we can do four sex work. But if you keep doing this and talking about it, I'm sure many people will go. Yeah. I've seen in the past through the power of podcast our podcast there are many activists and many people and they've raised crores of rupees just through podcast and it's not even we have fundraisers they come randomly and people start TV so someone comes with someone and they get touched and mostly it's like some business woman or business manager which has gained a lot of money and they have seen something in their family and they have seen something like yellow 10 crore rupiah yellow 5 crore rupiah change we are there and i say there are many times messages that my salary is only 50 ,000 rupees but i have seen it in my village so i want to give 500 rupees every month can i do a pay team to you and i have seen that through podcast people have turned around their life schools schools open, the budget of one school, just if this conversation goes to people.
1:15:08fingers crossed, I hope it will reach. for me that's home, and I have to stay away from that because I have to fund raise. I have to talk to someone like that, I have to say something that I have to say okay your fundraising tension is away now you're free you're opening your punk and now you're in the coat so I think I'll tell you in the morning, night, night only in the coat and then I know change is possible but it's like I know I also feel that this is a part of the journey it's a struggle and you have to go through it my audience believes in growth they believe in the future It is very close to the country.
1:15:57And when you come to the people and you do a real job, many people want to know about it. So thank you so much for telling us everything. Thank you. Thank you for having this topic on your podcast. We have a habit of getting stress in Bombay. And when we don't get it, we get stressed. Why is it not getting stress in our life? I don't know that. My Bombay life is a little different. I don't think I'm stressed. I don't get in Bombay, but I get stressed. I think I will be able to get the best place. Because this is such a peaceful place for me. But it was possible to be anywhere. Yes, but I think Bombay is a part of you to think about it.
1:16:33It shows you. Bombay is not possible to become big. And that's the beauty of Bombay. I live in the building. There are joint families, nuclear families. There are also people alone. There are couples who don't have children. There are people who don't have married or partner. There are people who live with four dogs. I live alone. I'm alone. I'm far from my home. I don't want to do my job. But if I have a great podcast then I know that I'm going to get into it. My aunt says, today's party will be you. That's beautiful. Thank you so much for watching this episode. Now I have to do three things.
1:17:09First of all, subscribe to this channel. Because as much as you subscribe, we will get more valuable guests for you. Number two, tell me in the comments Tell us about how good you and bad you are in this episode so that we can repeat the mistakes. And which guest you want to see in our podcast so that we can take them and give you value. And number 3, you must have to share this episode with someone. Because one conversation can change someone's life. I'll see you next time. Until then keep figuring out.
1:17:48Thank you.
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Timestamps:
(00:00) – Introduction
(02:43) – The incident that broke her completely
(06:42) – Are we really empowered?
(09:56) – How to know if someone is being forced
(11:41) – The most inhuman acts by humans
(14:27) – Can’t they be rescued?
(19:13) – How society treats their kids
(21:21) – How women get trapped in brothels
(28:05) – Why they are unable to leave brothels
(33:30) – Why people visit red-light areas
(38:56) – Top regions and cities
(42:10) – The brutal truth about red-light areas
(56:03) – A day in the life inside red-light areas
(1:03:35) – The brutal reality
(1:10:00) – The solution to end this
(1:16:09) – Behind the scenes
(1:17:06) – Outro
In today’s episode, we have Gitanjali Babbar, the founder and director of Kat-Katha Foundation, an organisation dedicated to supporting women living and working in Delhi’s red-light areas. Gitanjali has spent years working on the ground, listening to the unheard voices of sex workers, and building initiatives to create real change in their lives. She reveals eye-opening truths we don’t see, but need to understand.We discuss her experiences with the women trapped inside the red light areas, the brutal realities that women face, and the broken systems that trap them. From stories of violence and coercion to the myths society believes about consent and choice, Gitanjali explains how deeply rooted the problem is.
In the last segment, she shares some of the most disturbing stories she has witnessed, the fear that keeps women from escaping, and how the cycle of exploitation continues generation after generation. She also opens up about what it will really take to bring change and the lessons her work at Kat-Katha has taught her.Subscribe for more such conversations!
Follow Gitanjali Babbar here:
LinkedIn: https://in.linkedin.com/in/gitanjali-babbar
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/gitanjali.babbar
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gitanjali.babbar
About Raj Shamani
Raj Shamani is an Entrepreneur at heart that explains his expertise in Business Content Creation & Public Speaking. He has delivered 200+ speeches in 26+ countries. Besides that, Raj is also an Angel Investor interested in crazy minds who are creating a sensation in the Fintech, FMCG, & passion economy space.
To Know More,Follow Raj Shamani On ⤵︎
Instagram @RajShamani: https://www.instagram.com/rajshamani/
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Facebook @ShamaniRaj: https://www.facebook.com/shamaniraj
LinkedIn - Raj Shamani: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rajshamani/
