Pankaj Balani - Ceo -Delta Exchange

38:44Our problems are different from others. Our population base here is a very big. And in that very big population base, there are a lot of population base that is poor. There is no way to information. I have told you before, research, research. How will research happen when you don't know how to do it? That's why the internet is a great thing. Because you can research. But you need to research.

39:12But you have a very big population that you have to protect. So the government is not really wrong in being cautious. But then there is a fine balance between how you have to manage your people's caution. That it doesn't happen that the actors are wrong in this space and people will lose their money. So that will not be the same. Because that will also be careful. So you will grow the industry in this way. That there is also innovation in industry, but protections built in the industry. And when you grow locally, then you will have a control. So if you promote local players, then you have control.

39:54I don't say that you discourage foreign players. But I say that if someone from your own industry locally grows, So that's your problem solve. So now I'm as a common man Negative angle You can ask questions First is If I'm a common man I'm trying to understand crypto I'm working on trading For xyz reason I'm doing so many things Tomorrow RBI decides That ban will be banned Crypto is done Ban India Then what will happen? So if RBI Have decided to decide Then what will happen? So Your profits you can buy them and then you won't do it tomorrow. So opportunity loss will be financial. But nothing else will happen.

40:38If you have banned it, then the amount of money will not go away. That's not. It doesn't happen. You repent. No, the RPA basically they had stopped banks from servicing crypto companies. You can't give crypto companies banking services. But crypto companies can do their business. can do it.

41:03Because how will they do it? What is this? So basically, you have one crypto and another crypto. These people are doing it. So, industry took a big hit. And for 2-3 years, industry didn't happen. Because for people, it was difficult to do it. How do you pay your employees now? Exactly. So, this became a challenge. So, if this happens sometimes, for the worst case, 0.1 % sometimes, what happens? what do you think what will happen global economy Indian economy these things always keep attention that those people are able to withdraw their money right so if you have crypto as an asset and it will change in its price how much will it be because it is a global asset so if price is less than it it can be less than it locally globally it will not be less than it so it will support the price I don't know how much will it be depends on how much economy is.

41:57But if you have money in R &R denominated or R &R related platform then you will have opportunity loss that you will not do. And whatever you have money in R &R and you will not do it. But the other problem is that again, your country has been in innovation. Because no crypto business start to do business. But why do you have to do more innovation? Here's a question. Here's a thought experiment. Yes. Money, every government to control itself. Because that's why they're making control on their country. For the good, for the bad, for the ugly. Money up and down regulations they do. That's why the country is a game.

42:50If you have this power which you have, he left it. And he gave it to the crypto platform. If he gave it to the currency and gave it to the fiat money, then technically, there will not be much power. No, this is a outlandish scenario. But tell me, why would any government leave that our currency, with our currency, you do globally trade another thing. Every country has its currency. No, I don't know. when you are trading stock then it is an asset which is a price below and government has nothing to do with it but then the money that is printed the money that is paid, the money that is paid, the tax that is all government control yes but now you don't use the currency yes not now, I thought if in a great scenario everything becomes currency which initially was the idea no it was not, it was a marketing I'll tell you, okay two things break down Okay explain Okay explain Okay explain Okay explain Okay explain Okay explain Pahla sawaal yeh tha ki Why is it important to innovate in crypto Hmm Isko mein dho tarikay ze explain kerta ho Eek to ye ki Dousari economies mein kya hor raha Crypto as an asset Has established a position In the mainstream asset classes Crypto asset kaise hai Asset kya hota hai Asset to kuch bhi eek chiz hoti hai Jiska ki price market mein determine hota hai and a perception of market.

44:18So, asset is just that. So, Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are different price trade. Now, we'll call crypto assets just for distinction. No tangible value. Like it's just 4 people said that this is 10 lakh rupees, we'll all know 10 lakh rupees. But there's no time. There's no time. That's a good question. Now real value is how much determines how to determine real value. Real value is how to determine economic value. If you determine economic value, you will get dividend. Or if you have real estate, then you will get rent income. But intrinsic value is how to get? Intrinsic value is how to get?

45:05This is intrinsic value. If you want to get a stock, to get out of the shop, so basically, he will get out of the shop, how many dividends are going to come in the future. He will sum it up. And then he will get out that this is intrinsic value. What is the intrinsic value of a home? If I will get out of rent, then how much I will get out of here? Now, there are some subjective questions that come in. I think I will drive the value versus the renter who is doing rent. Your first office would have a very different position in your heart. Right? Yeah. versus another person who is renting that place yeah right so intrinsic value can be different for different people but it's a philosophical discussion so let's come back to value any asset who is used to trade how does it determine how much of it in the network it is used like how much of it the US dollar is determined how many people are trading how many international trade how many how many they are trading how many strong currencies it is determined but it is determined to other currencies determined होती है.

46:07Yeah. Right? So, हमेशा ही किसी network की value asset determined होती है कि इसको कितने लोग use कर रहे हैं. इसको कितने लोग value ascribe कर रहे हैं. So, जब आप ये कहते हो कि crypto में अभी बहुत सारा वो आने लग गया है. Participation आने लग गया है. So, then your value will determine from demand and supply will determine and it will be that the value largely will be wrong and then it will be right so it will be more and it will be less and it will be less and it will be changed from the market from the news from the market from the market from the market but this idea that if it is just a theoretical construct that I will boost a little bit because every asset has the value that is the demand and supply determine then we had discussed that that is money and the control or these things.

47:00So, look, in crypto, we were talking about why is it important to innovate in this industry? It is important to innovate in this industry because if this industry becomes bigger and if you, as a large economy, you don't have a foot in the door, then you will be left behind. So, even if you don't have ambitions of becoming very big in this space or dominating this space, You want to do minimum table stakes. Yes. We also have participation in this. Because if this industry is bigger, then we will participate in this. And in this industry, there will be many things that will impact the other industries.

47:39I'll tell you one example. 24 x 7 trading is in crypto. Day 1. In other assets, there is no trading. Equities and other markets. Because the infrastructure developed there, it is not developed like this. that it can be 24x7 trading. What's it done in the US? Apple has tokenized stock. It means that one token is backed by one stock of Apple. Now that it's a token, it can be traded 24x7 because its infrastructure is already 24x7 trading. So over the next 5-7 years, it is quite possible that all your real world assets will be tokenized and a very big theme is running in this space. which is about that we tokenize bonds and now 24x7 can discover and trading is not only this because price will go up so the money will not be opportunity.

48:39No, I'll give you an example that what is 24x7 need to be. Think of yourself, you have given a loan. One asset against, some shares against. Today is Friday evening, news is that you have given the loan, that is 1 ,000 ,000 ,000. And the shares of the value, is 1 ,500 ,000 ,000. Friday news has come. And from this news, you think this stock price is correct, 30%. So the value of 1 ,500 ,000 ,000, it will have more than 3 ,500 ,000 ,000. Or it will have 50 % correct, then it will have 75 ,000 ,000. So the loan is bigger, and your collateral is small. So either you get more collateral, or you know the chances that you will come back is very low so I will take it and take it and take it but if this market is still 3 days then you will not get it and the value is less than ever so 24 x 7 trading is very important for this right collateral management real time pricing available things are very valuable for the economy so crypto as an industry one thing I think in the next 4-5 years in broader economy and that will be 24 x 7 trading infrastructure that is all tokenize and not do anything so do things most of the things real world backed assets will go like in the US some exchanges Chicago and all these exchanges they have attempts to go for 24 x 7 trading so they will already start to see this technology that they can go through because what will happen there will be whole stack they need to change the whole stack.

50:20So, the people get money, deposit banks, the money is Saturday, Sunday, then there is no settlement. Because there are real problems. How will the money move when the bank is the money? So, we will see all these things. So, this is why we are looking at innovate. Plus, there are other opportunities. So, like RBI, CBDC and all you know, central banks, central bank digital currency is a very powerful tool. I'll tell you how You have a bank who gives a bank account that he wants to keep a minimum money because he has a tax on the bank account for branch banking so banks usually don't want to open branches in very small places because there's no demand so then you want to that if people in remote areas have a instrument that they can open a bank account from mobile to their own bank account open.

51:17And as in we can work with the whole digital banking. So that is very powerful. Second, like CBDC which is thinking about RBI and they say let's think of this as digital cash a substitute for cash. Yani a 10-Rupiah note is digital. A 100-Rupiah note is digital. And a 500-Rupiah note is digital. This means if I gave you a 500-Rupiah note, then there is no bank involved. I gave you a 500-Rupiah and a UPI transaction through. So there is a whole banking infrastructure involved. So there is a cost to that. But if I can do a digital transfer and you can do a 500-Rupiah note, peer-to-peer, in which you are not involved, that is basically a peer-to-peer settlement mechanism without involving a third party.

52:10If you go and read Bitcoin's white paper, the first concept paper of Bitcoin. This paper is about peer-to-peer transactions. This paper is about peer-to-peer settlement of money. And it is not so much about control and how the economy will go. All people have thought about it. This is more about how to do peer-to-peer transfers. Now I'm interested in it. We have as a society in a lot of things. We innovated on our communication. We sent an email in physical mail. Okay. We innovated on social media. So, the gossip we changed. Right? As a society, we innovated on transfer of money. Look, money instead of storing it physically, we can store it in a bank account, which is basically some numbers.

53:04There's no physical cash. Just numbers. It's a ledger. But we don't have to innovate on cash. is that we can transfer cash to use digital technology and use it. How do you do that? What is the challenge? It's the challenge. If I take a photo, I take a photo of this cup and send you email. Now I have a copy of the photo and you have a copy of it. If a cup is 10 rupees of note, I have a photo and send you. Now I have a copy of 10 rupees of note. Same serial number of copy. if we have to pay both so we have to create money what can we do when I send this note you don't have it and you have it then you can spend it and when you can spend it and you know that you have it and you have to send it then it is very powerful so now connect all this that if we have cash like this transfer to another just the way we send emails and then you are able to spend that cash now you can send an email to someone in the US overnet but then involvement of banks is not there yes involvement of government is not there no why not if this money has issued if this money has issued this money this is the RBI try it with CBDC.

54:39Don't send photos. I make a wallet. You send directly to another wallet. Now, like in my wallet, you will have 3 notes. 10 rupees to 3 notes. How will the transparency be? Yes, for every transaction. So, today, when you spend cash today, that is also the government issue. So, if you give digital cash to the government issue, and you can transfer someone to, then imagine the power of that. After that, the power of cryptocurrency comes. So this is how Bitcoin was refined. So what did they do? Bitcoin's architecture and said that we put it in a dollar. Very powerful. Ethereum had a new thing. Ethereum said that if you can do this, you can also put some other line of program here.

55:25You can set some rules here that how to spend money. So now, if we put it here, we will be able to use the right use case for the right use case or the right use case for the right use case then we will be able to use the right use case if I give you a piece of money but only food purchase and that is the same piece of money that the food can be used right somehow it can be validated enerated. Because it's digital, it's giving somebody to a merchant. If it's no food, it won't be here. If someone utilizes a merchant there and sees a lot of stuff... Doesn't it make , it'll be run easy for them. Look, everything.

56:17This marketing has given me as a merchant. But tomorrow they'lliksi see loop-hole e. But when they find loop-holes, so do they also plug them. but itni sarhi possibilities to gulhi na to jaha pe hum te ki control or power chala jayega naya economic system man jayega wo sab ek bhoot alak view hai aasa har chiz me ho saktah hai aasa telecommunication me ho saktah hai you can build your own satellite and you can you know build your own telecommunication network and but you put your own telecommunication network it will get spotted and you'll be shut down right or you can put your own social media or there are a lot of other things that you can do.

56:56So what we have to think about is what are the positive use cases of this and how we can absorb that. And there will be side effects of it. We will cover those. We have to be confident that we will be able to do it. But tell me, these all use cases, these all things, almost all country will tell you. All country will tell you. They will be very economic experts, very crypto experts. They will all debate. And after that, some countries world power like what technologically very advanced they promote it or accept it in their country let's say US as a country Germany as a country they have accepted that we are in crypto in favor if we don't promote then we don't do we want to come you're welcome and do it right so that's one side of country but then at the same time another country is India China India said we will see we don't have a clear stance China straight up said shut up China is technologically advanced in fact there are speculation that in new world order China will rise to the top right China is the second largest economy it is already and there is a speculation that maybe it will go up to US which might or might not be true what do you think is that some countries are banned and not.

58:23And this is not a thing for technology or you have told that you have told that. The US and China are talking about it. The US says for it and the China says it is not. Why do you think China is saying no? China for a very China What problem is it? For a very long period of time was very one of the largest markets. For crypto? For crypto. Okay. Only lately in 2019 It was like that before. they were also one of the first countries to experiment with CBDC they the way they make their decision making they can be very quick when they decide for example Hong Kong is one of the one of the biggest destinations for crypto today too Hong Kong has a very clear regulation if you have to start a business in Hong Kong you have a full suit of regulation this is how it is done, this is how it is not done and there is complete clarity and it was a second country to come out with an ETF after US and the aim in Hong Kong is to become the hub for crypto trading in Asia so they want to make sure that they take the market the way China would play is also through its different verticals and then you choose which sector you go after they have their own constraints what do you think, what are the constraints of China?

59:56yeah, China in the economy capital controls is a big challenge capital controls as in how much money you can take out of China in which form you can take and how much money like in China, many things are very constrained how to buy land. Like you can buy land so it's lease. X number of years. You can do certain kind of businesses. You cannot do certain kind of businesses. You are allowed to take certain money out of the country. You are not allowed. India in India too. India in India too. And in our countries it's necessary to do. So China too. But I think they will have to consider these rules.

1:00:39But they will monitor them too. So India has taken the step was comparatively quite progressive. We track all the crypto transactions and then we'll know if it's not going to be rule break. China was a little I think regressive in the sense that we will ban it. Now they have a lot of Chinese people participating in crypto on offshore Chinese exchanges. They have people in Hong Kong and they can travel freely between Hong Kong and they can do it. So, what are they thinking about it? it is a little difficult. Hong Kong, anyway, Chinese play money destination. For a lot of reasons. Yeah. So, like India's step was that we track it.

1:01:25Which is fine. You are saying, I was saying, don't compromise your rules. You keep that stencil that you will comfort. Because that you will make it somewhere. But when you think about the industry, when you think about it, you will figure out that these rules are, these are our other objectives. and this is the demand of this industry let's try and find a common ground and what will come from there what is what is your view now I think why is China why is China I think China might also come out with a positive listing on crypto any day so whatever answer I might give might be very short sighted what's your sense My sense is they will be, they will want to make very strong moves in the crypto market very soon.

1:02:21Fair. Why do you think today is that why you ban it? My reading is they did it in 2019 and they did it to curb the flight of money. Why don't you go out? They are going out. Do you think China's stance is promoting businesses? Is it good? I'll tell you, right? China one of the entrepreneurs I was talking to and he explained me very nicely on the podcast that they think that China has a very big reason to grow very quickly is that they have not made a level playing field for global companies they have kept their economy closed that anyone can come out and not make money very big like Amazon can come out and make a business here, Google can't do it whatever, XYZ which are all global companies we will not do it.

1:03:11We will not do it. We will have the internal system and guardrail so strong to do it. We will make more of this. Right? And because we all blocked it, Chinese entrepreneurs had more opportunities. They had more momentum. They had a big market empty. And they didn't have to fight. They have to fight. Like if Amazon has a flip card. Now flip card is Walmart. But before flip card, Amazon has to fight. we wanted to change it

1:04:08you totally depend on the market players or the foreign players or the foreign players so you won't grow your local industry but you see like we are here e-commerce as an industry there are a lot of guardrails multi brand retail you should be 51 % Indian but not more foreign that's a very simple basic that's why we made a new story that's why we Flipkart story That's why we have Many retail Indigenous Indian brands Like Snitch All thrive And then For that For them The quick commerce Kill It's just Amazing It's amazing And Okay Let's talk about DeepSync I'll give a comment You said China has grown Now DeepSync China has done A lot of work In AI They focus Specifically on AI and from 2017-2018 they put dedicated focus that this industry is going to grow and we work on it so in 2017-2018 newspaper articles you will see they were doing a lot of they had a lot of focus on AI and that is where you see that you know you have now start to see the fruits of that you know effort so AI was a lot of work in 2017-2018 chatbots was first introduced in Facebook in 2018 chatbots will be a big thing and at that time natural language processing and AI started a lot of work and China actually got a lot of researchers made attractive grounds for a lot of Chinese students who were in US to repatriate back to China and start doing AI research so they have done you know they have given serious thought to this and they have decided that look this is one area where we want to be ahead.

1:06:06Who will win AI war? What do you think? Too early. I won't even discount India as of it. Because we have a lot of data. So ultimately it is quite possible that who has the data wins. But still, what do you think? Now I think China is doing very well on AI which is related to robotics. India, China, US. India is a lot of at this point. But now the number of people who AI engineers every year we have a lot versus users if you hear charge you know consumption economy production economy production economy AI engineers every year we globally AI engineers supply so maybe that's a plus sign for us that is a plus sign for us AI engineers we are making AI consumers here and here you get openness here and who do you think China and US who is winning AI war US they are winning the war on robotics who China China is winning in robotics because it's their need factories in robotics population this thing is changing population demographic dynamics is changing the aging population so if you whatever robot can do the same thing plus population is getting richer so once you start to get rich you don't want to go into the factory and sweat it out, right?

1:07:35Robotics is a need. Robotics is India's need. Their need is. Reality is the best innovation needs. What's India's need? India's need, of course, you know, we have a lot of poor people. We need to lift people out of poverty. We need to grow fast. Now, there are too many,

1:08:03as a country we are not that rich as of yet we need dollars we need dollars we need dollars foreign capital country we have infused our demographics like their needs we have talked about US need innovation is a need if you don't do it on top then you will get redundant very fast China we have talked about demographics effects change they have a need robotics innovate we have a large population young population we need to find jobs for them we need to find you know opportunities for them because you want to be in a place where they are able to maximize their output and talent and youth right if you have 27 year old 29 year old then their time which is 10 years you can use all of them you have so much productive 10 years So you give them opportunities And look at these sectors Where these opportunities can be If we are the most Ingeniors generate This is a good thing But because we can create So many people Are going to go They are spending a lot of money And in fact Those who are less than trading Versus High paying income high income group this is data by not me this is government data publicly out probably because of the idea you know jladi payse bana do jlose karreya who bhi mid income and low income wale hi hai versus large income wale hi isme eek chiz isko qualify karna chahi mehne bhi ye sada data dekha hai aur isme mujhe lagtah eek qualifier ki zhort hai this is important ki aap jab bhi markets mein enter kar raha hai to aise meh such ke that I will make money here.

1:09:59It seems to be a lot of work. So that's important. But if you have taken one trade in the year, when we see these data, how many people win versus how many people lose, we have to qualify for this. Because many people will try one thing. We will start a little money, only 5 ,000 rupees, 10 ,000 rupees, we will try one time. Imagine that you think that you have to be a event. And you think that I can make a lot of money here. I bought a call option. And that was not. And that option was worthless. So, that was a disproportionate bet. If you took a trade in a year, then if you see how many people lost, you are counted as one.

1:10:39But the amount you lost, it's very low. And it was a chance, this thing. You just wanted to try it out once. If you see data, you will see the number of investors versus traders. Not just in India. Everywhere in the world. traders only 5%. So, 20 to 20 number of people who are actually trading are about 5 % of the total number of people who are investing or who have DMAT accounts, let's say. So, if I look in US, as per CME, when talking about Robinhood data, again, of all the people who have accounts with them, only 1 to 2 of 20 million people who have accounts with them 1 to 2 million trade options and futures India also has been like this and after that this is also true right 90 % traders can't make money so in that 90 % we have to put this qualifier that how many traders in it who look I won't defend this point because there is a merit to the gravitas of this point right that what are you trying to say so the first thing is that if this data is published then you should see it seriously for someone who is trading.

1:12:00But you have to see this that how many people were just trying to get the chance in a year, in a life and never did it again. Or they wanted to just try it out. Or how many people were repeating. For example, there is a restaurant. He says that I have the people that come from that. with a lot of people repeat. But then they realize that they are on a highway and most people come and have a cup of coffee and leave. So, the repeat ratio has to adjust it in terms of it. Because a lot of people came and they just wanted to experience it and never came back. So, we have to adjust the data for this.

1:12:43So, who were like this? Who were like this? Who were like this? Who were like this? And who were like this? Just casual traders. And who were like this? Who were like this? Who were like this? Who were like this? serious traders on this data analyze so you define it that minimum X dollars or minimum X rupiah or minimum so much trade or minimum so much money trade so then you will see that the most people are casual traders and the loss amount is not so much the other way the other way serious traders won't happen that losses but this number which is 90 or 10 in the way, he will start going 50-50 and where he should be.

1:13:25Because 50-50 should be sealing. If it's 80-20 then you're dead. That's no one wins. If everybody is winning, nobody is. If you remove casual traders then you'll see the data that will be more normalized. Another thing, when you talk serious trader, you naturally say that the one use case toh hota hai hedging karna yai ni protection kharihna aise events ke against joh aapke portfolio ko necheh la sakta hai right toh agar aap insurance kharihder toh us min toh nixaan ho na natural hai or buri baad vhi nahi right maini kaerhau ki sab log yeh kar raha par technically for example every time you buy insurance more often than not you will not end up realizing the value of insurance you cannot look at that as money wasted yeah That is the cost of protection.

1:14:22You should ideally be happy that it's not used. Not everyone is looking at put options and others as insurance and there are people who are using it for speculation. In that case, my logic is not right. But that is also a segment which you have to have to see. So, you should qualify this data and then you should have to see what kind of number comes. In the world, there is data analyzed in all the markets. there are no numbers that will be far from 90 to 10 if you include casual traders. Whether they are in US markets, crypto markets, equity markets, but when you adjust these things, when you see casual traders, you will see the regular traders.

1:15:10I don't say serious, I say regular. You will see this number in normal. Okay. This has to be taken with a pinch of salt. Tell me, AI can start trading and make money. Yes. We have come up full circle. How to make it? Because it's a lot. I've seen Twitter on Twitter. I've seen screenshots of random. He asked a chat from GBD. Or asked another AI model. Or asked another person. And asked him. he said to the price track, he said to call after a week and then he posts his screenshots and they're like, oh they're making money right, is it is it the future that AI will make money for you or can it become today because everyone is not doing this okay this is the future that AI and bots or AI powered bots will be trading, bot trading bot trading is happening today manually people write bot is nothing but a set of rules yes you create algorithm right and as we come to our platform you can deploy and deploy and with chat GPT many things that are doing programming is quite easy because it can write the entire code for you so in fact we have made this you can use AI to write a code for you to write a bot for you this ис chuẩn PO-PILOT If you do it, it reminds me it.

1:16:47you write ZR

1:16:52before you show that you fact come to come to show i will not cheese many things can do, many factors can analyze which manually becomes very difficult. So, the models will improve very much. Is this the answer that today can become money? There is a model that has made or used to make money. But there will not be run of the mill available that it will not get everyone. Then it will be proprietary information that will be heavily guarded. So, today there are prop firms which are heavily guarded and which are algorithms today there are star traders in every industry who are highly sought after or investors who are highly sought after and they give their money to invest and today it can happen I know that people are trying to write bots let me give this as a problem to AI what does AI do actually it analyzes a lot of data and it can do a lot of computations very fast.

1:18:13Yeah. Right? It just, it's rather, at the core of it, it's rather brute force. So logically, brute force can help you with some sort of information leverage. Yes. And that information edge that you have, you can deploy it alone. Which you were not able to get earlier because that brute force was very time consuming. Exactly. It's now a lot faster. So then technically, if you know how to use it well, you can make some money. So, yes. So the question is not about telling AI, tell me how to make money. It's about giving that AI, okay, analyze this for me. And how can somebody learn this? That first they learn trading, then they learn information.

1:18:52What I have seen, people do this, they do this. That first they were doing manually, they were doing signals, they were doing manually, they were doing patterns. Now they're saying, man, this pattern, let me identify and tell you, it's been done, so I alerted. If this pattern is coming Then take it for me It was also that if this pattern Is made manually Then generate this signal But now it's happening That you can identify In this asset's trading history You can identify a pattern This was a tough problem Can you identify a pattern In this asset's trading history But now that's happening These are the kind of things That people will be able to do with AI.

1:19:34And then the competition will be amongst AI trader 1 versus AI trader 2. So bots will compete against one another who has more alpha. So the world of trading will be highly impacted by AI. This is guaranteed. World of everything will be highly impacted. It's already getting highly impacted by this. Okay. Because you said that the history events and all these things are historical data that AI can track tell me top 3 historical events where crypto prices up and down so that if something in the future may be people can look forward to it so let's say US election that was a big one that was a big one that Trump won Trump won because Trump said I will make crypto capital now it's a good thing it's a move it's a move a lot of uptake and people did it so that was one okay who else positive side negative side both sides tell us anyone tell us Bitcoin ETF approval was a landmark event from that a very big validation in this space like that when Elon Musk had started to buy Bitcoin back in 2020 in his Tesla treasury in that time because all these are signals of validation yeah so in this way news items at least crypto has moved BlackRock has added Elon Musk adopted it BlackRock has added ETF so it was that access will be easy to people with it so let's do it Trump election was a signal that he had gone out in the Bitcoin conference prior to election and said that look I will make US the crypto capital and now they are coming out with the regulation which is very pro crypto and negative events negative events moves are very sharp and they are also remembered because in positive events moves are a little long so when this there was a FTX exchange where there were issues Right.

1:21:56When that event happened, market crashed. That was one of the most recent crashes. The crash of the last cycle. It was very big. Yeah. Before that, there was another crash, just two, three months ago, which was about, there was a coin called Luna, which was an algorithmic stable coin. Now, there was something that they were trying to do everything with algorithms. and this was a stable coin which will be backed by you know not by fiat currency but other things and this is where you know issues happened and there was a big crash in fact that was the bigger crash which crashed Bitcoin from 40 ,000 to 20 ,000 and 25, 26 when it recovered then FTX news happened and in fact they were correlated because I think FTX was largely exposed to Luna.

1:22:51So when that event happened, then a lot of people were short. And then their collateral started to come short on a lot of things. So the May of 2022 to November of 2022 was a very tricky time for crypto. Similar events have happened in the past. There was a major hack in crypto that happened in one of the exchanges. Again, Bitcoin price crashed in there. So, there have been events in crypto, which has crashed the price. how it crashed. In 2017, there was a crash that the price of 20 ,000 was down in one day at 20-30 % but that's the reason that the futures market was not very liquid. So, because of the futures market being not liquid, the price was going up very quickly and no one was able to do it because no one was able to do it.

1:23:58So, when the price stopped, it was already, it had gone from 13 ,000 to 20 ,000 within a matter of month. And because there was no instrument too short, you know, it just was going parabolic. And after that, when it stopped, it was correct. 10-20 % overnight. And now that you look at all of this market, right? You see crypto, you see global news, you see finance, you see geopolitics. All of these things are happening around the world. Where is the next big opportunity? Purely from the point of business and money. across the globe or crypto markets both one-one opportunity so AI is definitely a big opportunity which I think everyone knows yeah I think it will touch a lot of areas of our life so AI and trading is definitely a big opportunity and the new set of algo traders that are coming they should definitely you know look to see that what opportunity this is one very big area that will come about crypto in crypto markets I think penetration and CBDCs will be a very big opportunity if rightly done that's a very good opportunity for the society not maybe for entrepreneurs because it's more of a government play what's for entrepreneurs crypto driven use cases is a very big opportunity Remittance's use case is a very big opportunity for example.

1:25:32So what can I do? I'll tell you about this. Crypto market, what should I do? What should I buy? What should I invest? What should I build? Building a company that facilitates real world remittances using the crypto technology can be a very big opportunity. Right? There are companies who do that, but nobody has really cracked it and made it mainstream. Because nobody is trying to do it in a... My understanding is that people have not really solved that problem with you know you will have to go and identify a market a pocket and then solve that problem for that pocket so that is one very big opportunity which can be done okay and in India apart from this something like that what should we buy for in the crypto space to make more money yeah how will we get money I think having some exposure to a new asset class, which has a possibility of, which has, you know, a lot of possibilities is a good idea.

1:26:41Like, what? This is a very vague answer. Yes, it is a vague answer. So, give a clear answer. So, buying a certain coin that will increase in value, I don't know. I will, I'm not the, my world is more what is going to change the price today. What is going to change? My world is more about, and change can be up, change can be down, change can be sideways. No change is also a change, right? Because no change means volatility coming cooling off, right? So it's a very big change for an options trader. And what changes prices on cryptocurrencies is a lot to do these days with the global news. So how the geopolitics in Russia, Ukraine settles, that's going to have a big impact on all the markets.

1:27:37That's a global epicenter. Yeah. And this is the impact. Because the sanctions are closed in Russia, it's a global event for everyone. Many things will open. The sanctions are closed in any way. The oil and natural gas will be a big moment for them. A big moment. Okay, now what? What's next? and after their situations we don't know so then there will be a lot of speculation and it will be a lot of move for traders also for investors also and for opportunities also and plus the more the migration will start real estate will impact especially economies like Dubai will impact because the more the war ridden country will go back and that will be an interesting change to see that will be an interesting change to see oil prices supply a new pocket in the market so oil prices should go down and in that case as interconnected business there will be like a lot of changes so people are waiting for that because oil prices suddenly go down yes there will be a certain pocket where some arbitrage will be lost but overall as an economy we are exposed to the price yeah okay here's our question which is my last question for you okay which is India traders and global traders what is the difference in India what their behavior pattern how does it change it's the same everyone is technically people who use as a skill as a gambling as a gambling as a addiction people who say that they just get money from where they are is it the same or is it there is some kind of behavior because awareness or education level is all different I don't okay I think largely same is largely same but there are certain products that are popular in certain markets and what is because people naturally train that for give me an example like India is one of the largest markets when it comes to derivatives India is the world's largest markets in derivatives so the audience is quite savvy in terms of derivatives in some I am in any of these things.

1:29:53In this way, ETFs and all, which I have talked a lot about in this podcast, are very popular in the US. So, not only in Bitcoin, but other things are also very popular. So, the market was already an appetite for that. In China, for example, derivatives are not that big for some reason. Right? But general stock investing is very big. It's a one of, you know, of course, big economy is a big stock market. So, in every market, in some products which are idiosyncratic and they have reasons that their history is popular and you know these differences will you see India, US, Korea are top three markets when it comes to leading derivative players in the world part of the reason is here the exchanges are in these economies they have done a lot of work in the design in the products in the products to make user friendly when you see innovations that are in these three countries, exchanges, these products are popular.

1:30:56They are a lot. And in 10 years they have innovated. This is the only major difference. So these three markets stand out when Europe doesn't stand out so much. Europe now as a global economic discussions we don't talk about it too much. But it's a big economic center. Collectively Europe put together each of these countries are decent sized economies. Couple of trillion dollars to be able to reach 5-6 countries. So, in those countries, there are not many products in that country. Because there are not many innovations there. So, yes, it's different from these things. So, largely, traders are the same, but trader psychology is the same.

1:31:36But there are some markets that have more of the trading mindset where people have more, there are not many markets. Yeah. And, follow up to the last question is, then, because derivatives and products you know Chinese market India market US market you said there's a different psychology and people have different history in all if you have to put it do you think then crypto and the world of crypto is a new stock market or it's just a casino with better marketing no no it can evolve as a new shape of stock market it is not a casino with better marketing because it will happen that you are saying that before the other one was a casino with poor marketing no, that's not like that and we should stop we should not just look at crypto as a trading asset ultimately crypto as an industry will thrive when there are use cases built because otherwise Bitcoin's primary use case is store of value Ethereum's primary use case is smart contracts which is basically how you use the Ethereum network, how you build like I have talked about programmable money stable coins, they are also programmable so that's one of those use cases in that way you can make another use case because there are going to be a lot of use cases you can make a use case in social media you can discern good quality or real news from fake news by some sort of a reward token mechanism right

1:33:20but you can do this kind of discerning of how to separate real from you know rumor by having a reward built in so use cases will be and people will go and build them smart entrepreneurs will come out and build applications and top and underlying this will become more like a technology and this will happen with AI as well so that's why I said we are very early. This is infrastructure. This is laying out the groundwork. Yeah, the roads and the factories. You know, when you have cars plowing on them, that is where the real flowers will blossom. So, this is to think that just trading in assets is the only use case is a bit short-sighted.

1:34:08Trading is being built, markets are being built. That's why, because these are assets that price discovery and their use case is with payments. So you want to use their price discovery. Then you will use for payments. The price that is not available will be used in payments. Perfect. Thank you so much sir. Thank you for coming here and talking about world economy and crypto and a lot of stuff. Good sir. Thank you so much. How are you? I am good. Where do you live? Where are you? I live in Bangalore. But I keep shuttling between Bangalore and Dubai. so I have basis because there is a lot of industry so there is a lot of industry interaction for industry thank you so much for watching this episode end to the end now I have to do three things first of all, subscribe to this channel because as much as you subscribe we will get better and valuable guests for you number two, tell me in comments what did you feel good and bad so that we can repeat those mistakes and which guests that you want to see again in our podcast so that we can take them and give you more value.

1:35:19And number three, you have to share this episode with someone else. Because one conversation can change someone's life. I'll see you next time. Until then, keep figuring out.

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