Spice King: Business Lessons, Fake Supplements & China Farming Secret | Dr. Viju | FO524 Raj Shamani

0:00If a young person is listening to this conversation and want to understand how to become successful, what should they do? If he has a small business patience, perseverance, you should have the confidence about yourself first and then take the journey in a very small way and grow up. How big was the business when you joined? When I joined, it was about 200 crores. So how big the group got after that? We were about 400, 450 crores in 4-5 years. What did you do? Give me 2-3 strategies. First thing you should do is you should see what the market looks like. Who is the biggest person in the market?

0:32Who is the second producer in the market? And we should decide where should I go? Should I take 1 % or 10 % from the biggest producer or from the last producer? The problem is if I feel that I want to be a competition to the first producer, my investment is so big. If I want to go to the fourth producer, my investment is small. Start small, then you become big. What are the advantages of going for number four, not for number one? The advantage of going for number four is that your investment is less. you have more time to look into the business and you can really understand the market very well.

1:00That's very important. If you go slow and understand the business perfectly, you are a winner. Where do you see the next big opportunity? Which one industry with somebody can get in? How do you crack these big companies? They all come to you or you go to them? India, I crack them by... Before we start today's podcast, if you have found anything valuable from this channel, please subscribe. It's free. it takes less than a minute but it means a lot to us and to listen to the audio experience of this episode please follow us on spotify the world's largest producer of spice extracts is a company from kerala you've probably never heard of it produces ingredients for the flavors in your packet food the fragrance in your luxury perfumes like chanel and the supplements you swallow every morning and our today's guest is Dr.

1:51Viju Jacob from that same company NatExtra Supplements and Synthite Industries Private Limited. His father started this business in 1970 with just one product. Today their revenue is in thousands of crores and they are the world leaders in this. In this episode we'll discuss why you should aim for the number four position in your industry not number one? Why has no single spice brand ever won all across India? What is fairy dusting and how is it ruining the supplements you buy? Watch this episode till the end and to know more about Nat Extra and Synthite Industries, check the link in the description.

2:34Since when did you start working? Synthite started in 1970 actually. 1970 Yeah Who started it? My father Okay And Till 1976 We had a lot of problems Because we had only one product That's Pepper Black pepper extraction So we could not Succeed in that Till 1976 At that time We had One single product Called pepper And the extraction Is called Pepper olive oil Okay And We had 10 employees And my father that's all so from there the journey started in 1976 we moved into one more product that's ginger slowly we moved into another product for nutmeg whichever whatever products which is available in Kerala like ginger turmeric nutmeg and pepper so four products were there in line okay so slowly we started growing so what was the main business what were you doing with these ingredients we used to for example if you take black pepper we extract them and we make a concentrate out of it if you can ask me like this what's the benefit out of that what's an extract explain like a very common yeah I'll tell you like if you take 100 kilos of black pepper whole okay 5 kilos of olive extract is equal to 100 kilos of pepper okay so it's that potent that concentrate will be okay so that concentrate of olive resin is from 100 kilos of black pepper.

4:09It's equivalent to 100 kilos of black pepper. That's how it works. Got it. Yeah. So you go to Kerala, you basically go to, let's say, farmers or people who maybe grow certain type of ingredients and then you take it and then you process it to get the concentration out. Is that what you do? Correct. So you had processing units. We had processing units. So that's the journey that we are taking. till I joined the company officially. So when I come from the school or college in the afternoon, in the holidays, I was staying in my hostel in the college as a, in school and college also, I was staying in the hostel.

4:52So when we come back for holidays, I used to work in the factory. Officially I joined in Sun Tite Industries Private Limited. It's called Industries Private Limited in 1983. three 82 82 last and 83 first okay so i joined and uh three years was a uh i thought it's very easy even though i was working there but when you get into the technicality of the whole thing it was a bit difficult because i'm a commerce graduate and a lot of chemistry into the process and things but uh it was not not that a big thing for me actually but i we i used to work in the lab I used to work in the shop floor. Where I feel today, if you ask me that question, since I worked all of these places, like I used to do all these systems in the organization.

5:40So today if somebody comes in front of me and asks me some questions and I'm able to answer it just because I did that with my hand. And it's still working with me. So I know exactly what the yield of pepper, what the yield of ginger, anything you ask technically, I'll be able to answer that. Got it. So how big was the business when you joined? When I joined, it was about 200 crores. Not even 200 crores, 140 crores. Okay. So it was a pretty large business for that time. For that time, 140 crores is a big number at that time. In 1983, 140 would be insanely big. Yeah, it's a big number. So you joined at 140 crores.

6:18And what was the first big mistake you made? I made a lot of mistakes. You made the first big mistake. was you know I was not able to really articulate what I want in the business because my knowledge in business was not that great when I talked to my my father or the technical team I used to get irritated because you know either they were saying wrong or I was saying wrong I don't know We were missing somewhere. But the advantage that I got is that my father was a very tough person. Today, if I look back, I would say that was a great advantage for me because he was a tough master for me. And he used to, after the factory, when we come home, when I come home, I used to stay with him, actually, before my marriage.

7:16He used to ask, what happened today? just explain me all the details so I used to explain so I might make mistakes he said then why are you going there he just said if you're going there you should learn everything one to A to Z so I said you know dad you know this is pretty tough I said you know just give me some more time to learn perfectly so every day this process is going on this teaching is going on at home so one day I was you know that age you know you get age of 23 you get frustrated you know when you want to do something else you know but you get frustrated automatically you get frustrated for that for that case anybody at that age you know you get frustrated you finish you are tough at the work place and then come home and then again having this kind of questions you know again it becomes more tougher so I said dad you know this is it's very tough for me to work with you openly I told him and he said you know he said that night and I sleep and then next time morning you know as usual.

8:18At that time, you know, our office time was 7 o 'clock in the morning till 6 o 'clock in the evening. So afternoon, we come for lunch, and then 7 o 'clock, we, 6 o 'clock, we finish. And myself and dad goes to play shuttle batman. So when you go together also, see, you'll ask me, how was the pepperoni you got? How much of ginger we bought this day? All this, he just mixed me up with the, see, when you go for a game, you know, you should be very sharp in thinking about how to play that day, not thinking about the business. So wherever he is with me, he started asking about business, business, business.

8:57In 1985, he told me, and I got married in 1985 actually. And my wife's name is Minnie. And when I got married, he said, give me an opportunity to go to Australia for marketing. So I went all the way to Australia and then it was a big eye-opener for me. For the first time, I'm going for marketing. So I went there and I stayed with my friend's house. And it was so difficult to understand the slang. Did I, you know, like, you know, or totally different slang, you know, Australians. So first day when the customer, when Mike is supposed to be our agent, he came in and picked me up from the place. Then he gave me, how are you going to die, Jacob?

9:51I said, come on. This will be a difficult task for me to go and speak with these guys. We can speak in normal English, but not with the slang. So next day morning, I came in the evening and I told my friend, can you spare your six-year-old son to me for this night just to speak and understand the slangs? that night I spoke with him at least till 12 o 'clock in the night. So understand that accent, that slang. The slang that they're using. I got bit. Next time morning when he came, I was better than the previous year. So it was a learning for me, actually. So that's how I started. And I traveled all over Australia and I came back and I made Bronson Jacobs, a company in Australia.

10:40I made them as our agent. And that trip I made, if my memory is correct, I made about 3 million worth business with them. So that was a great eye-opener for my father too. That he can do something. He can do something. Nice. So from there, again, the journey started.

11:051994, in 1985, we started a factory in Coibitur for flower production. Flower production. Flowers, like jasmine, tuberose, mimosa, all these flowers for the perfumery industry. Oh, so the essential oils or the extracts? The extracts. Okay. Not the essential oils, extracts. So we were in a joint manager with a company called Cal-Pfizer. The Pfizer company was making medicine. They were into this perfumery business also in Nice. Okay. So the Pfizer team has joined hands with the Chanel group. Chanel. Yeah. Okay. Chanel and we were selling directly to Calpheiser. And Calpheiser in turn was selling into Chanel.

11:56So all the perfume extracts that you were making were getting used by Chanel? No, not Chanel alone. A lot of other companies do. How did you get this opportunity? In 1985? 1985. In 1985, you got an opportunity to make perfume extracts for Chanel. That's a big thing. Sure. How did it get you? Because, you know, we were not directly doing this channel, but the Calpheiser was buying from the product from us and they were selling, in turn selling it. Fair. How did Calpheiser found you? Calpheiser found us is because we were into extraction business, basically. And they were big here. We were big. So they thought we could manage to have, they were discussing with us and finally we bought land in Coimbatore where more of the flowers have been cultivated.

12:43So we put up a factory in Coambito. And in 90 days, we finished the factory. And on the 100th day, we inaugurated the factory and we started production. So first year, we did about 400 kilos of jasmine concrete. It's called concrete. It looks like a paste. One kilo of jasmine concrete at that time was about$800 a kilo. So that was the price. So we made The growth started from there actually The business Not the volume But the value Started from there The margin starts coming from the flower extractions Because the flowers We are getting flowers at a very cheap price Because we started making plants And giving to the farmers And it's a buyback arrangement that we did See today To grow in an industry of us We should have a good relation with the farmers that's how we can get back the so you should have a buyback system that's what I believe in so we started giving plants and then plantlets and taking back the flowers back to us so that's so that's where the growth started yes and then so how big the group got after that the group was from 200 crores to we got about 400 450 crores in just how many years from 85 in 85 like maybe 76 in 4-5 years.

14:11So by 89 you were 400, 500 crores. 400, 500 crores, yeah. Just because of this flower extract. Jasmine was one of the major inputs for us. Then in between that, we started extracting chillies for extraction for the hot chillies. For the hot chillies and color chillies we used to extract. Color goes for the food coloring and hot goes for the making seasonings like hot seasonings like it goes to Kentucky Fried Chicken it goes to McDonald's like we don't directly sell to them but there are companies multinational companies who buy from us and they make seasonings and they use to sell the seasonings what did you do give me 2-3 strategies how did you go from 3 crores to 1700 crores see initially first year you know it was a big tough situation for me I went all around because to to make the clients understand what is black popper or euros and it's so difficult at that at that point of time yeah because you know black people like companies like nestle companies like unilever companies like pepsi so i used to go and take classes i used to make them understand what's the usage what advantages all these things one by one one or two three exercise i do uh when come back first year i did that the initial startup I did but I went with my laptop and my one of my guy was there along with me a marketing guy we we went there he showed all the systems and all but first day first year I was I would say that from three to 16 I made 16 course I made then I thought this is not enough this is not the way I should take it take this product to the customers so I went with the products I've been I went with the blends.

16:01I made, start making blends. For example, if you take chicken tikka, I can make chicken tikka blends with my oleo recet. I can take a barbecue. I can make a lot of, all the food flavors, I can make it through blends. So I started making blends. Then I took it to all the customers. I said, this is an advantage for you. You don't need whole spices or powders. You need some quantities, but the volume that you can reduce. The advantage is that using, our reason is that you need to use only very less because the percentage of concentrate is high in the olive extract and low in the whole spices and the powders.

16:38So they started, I could convince them in that manner. So second year, from 16 to 35. Third year, I went from 35 to 45. Fifth year, I was 75. Then I told the board that 2010, it will be 124 crores. Exactly 2020, I took it as 124 crores. Nice. Then I started working with the other products also. Then we started seasonings. The companies were doing, big multinational companies were doing. See, with Olurusen only, they make seasonings. With extracts, they make seasonings. Like powders, whole spices, powders blend together, they make spices. And they make blends. Blends and they make seasonings. So we started seasonings.

17:25So we got, today we are doing about 800 crores in seasoning itself. Because what I usually hear that people who get really big in Tamil Nadu, then their obvious territory to expand is Telangana, Kerala, Andhra Pradesh and Karnataka. You are right. You know why? Because if you ask me a question, like masalas, for example, if you have a sambar from Calicut it's different if you come to Trichur it's different if you come to Cochin it's different if you go to Alapit it's different if you go to Troandrum it's different the taste palette is different altogether every state will have their own favourite every state has their own favourite every district has got this difference that's a big challenge for us so we should make we should try all these things and to come that's the winner that you should make got it yeah Got it.

18:21So that's why there's no one clear winner across all states. Correct. That's right. There's not even one. No. Because if I take my sambar to Bombay, nobody will buy my sambar. Absolutely no way. I have to come with the flavor of what the Bombay guys wants. Fair. Yeah. Fair. And then are there any standardized spices which across the board? Yeah, like for example, if you look at pepper powder, ginger powder, turmeric powder, paprika powder, cabbage, chili powder, all these things will all no blend. Everything will go all over the world. Sorry, all over the world, I would say. Not in India alone.

19:01So these things, are you like the leader in India or only the state? Only in the state. Only B2C. I'm talking about B2C. Is there any spice brand in the country which is Pan India? I don't think so. everybody would have had regional dominance. Yes, yes. 100%. Interesting. Yeah. Not even one. Not even one. So, and would the salt be a big, like salt is tata only there in South as well or no? Yeah, tata is there. The salt they have mastered. They have mastered. Only one. Only one. So, spice extract is Kerala. Yeah, absolutely in Kerala. Most of them, 90 % are in Kerala. How do you crack these big companies?

19:38They all come to you or you go to them? No, as I told you, like in India, I crack them by going to them. How do you go to them? What's the process? Because they're such large companies, they would not entertain entrepreneurs. I'll tell you, I can set an example for you, the entry to Nestle. Nestle, I got an appointment at 1.30 in the afternoon. I was sitting in the lobby. So I said, I called up his name was Kartik. Kartik, I'm here. I said, just five minutes. The five minutes went up to five o 'clock in the evening. I was patiently sitting there. Then in between I started calling him and he said, okay, five minutes, five minutes.

20:19So, at five o 'clock I went to the reception and said, can I connect to Karthik please? Then the HR guy was standing there. He said, what happened? I said, I'm sitting here for more at 1.30. So, he called up Karthik and I said, Karthik please come down. Within two minutes, two seconds he came down. So, there was no meeting rooms. So we went to the cafeteria and then I said, you know, Karthik, you should think, you should remove one thing. I'm employing 2 ,500 employees and you are an employer of Nestle. Just think the difference. You should not do this to anyone. I'm sorry, please. Then the HR guy said, you know, Jacob, don't worry about it.

21:01You'll be the best supplier for Nestle. Today we are the best supplier for Nestle. I would say that, I would tell every kids, every business people that patience, give you results. Without patience, you will never get results. Today, what I look at is, like today, Synthet would like to turn into fermentation technology. There's the latest technology that's coming up. See, today, just 10 minutes back, I was telling you about the global warming. So because of the global warming, we are not getting the right materials, right raw materials, right products. So fermentation, by taking a strain of turmeric, you can make turmeric.

21:50Two things are made out of turmeric, turmeric color and curcumin is for the immunity. So two things have been made out of curcumin. So we can make color out of turmeric. So a lot of advantages are there in fermentation technology. You can make a lot of flavors like rose flavor, vanilla flavor, all these things. And a lot of colors. Today, U.S. has banned all Sardiri colors. So it's a great opportunity for us to get in. I've got already, I've got a business of 1 ,400 rose for one customer. One customer. Turmeric color. And turmeric, paprika color. and spirinilla color. Tomorrow morning, I need to finish off my signature with that kind of custom.

22:30That's it. In COVID times, Sundar grew 50 % bigger than anybody else. 50 % and the profit was about 25 % higher than any time since that has gone. Why? Because immunity. People started very quick. Americans, they want the material immediately on stock. They started stocking. They thought that this will not end anywhere. So everybody started stocking the material. So curcumin, they started buying from you? Curcumin, ginger, everything was immunity. Everything was immunity. That gave us a good advantage for that. See, before we going into a business, whatever maybe, perfumery, anything you take, spices, anything.

23:10First thing, a person before jumping into any business, first thing you should do is, you should see what the market looks like and who is the biggest producer, who is the biggest person in the market, who's the second producer in the market who's the third producer in the market and fourth producer in the market and we should decide where should I go where should I take 1 % or 10 % from the biggest producer or from the last producer which area you want to click if you the problem is if I feel that I want to be a competition the first producer my investment is so big if I want to go to the fourth producer my investment is small start small then you become big that's what I believe in so you go for the fourth one I go for the fourth one if I look that's how I look at the business because you cannot jump already see fourth person how did that fourth person became first person became first because he worked towards that from a long time back and innovated yeah innovated it and made it different and he did all the things that that can happen in the next 10 years yeah he has made that why Sundarita has become big because we started in 1970.

24:23And today, why we are saying that we are the leaders? Because we started in 1970. Because we were 55, 54 years. It's a journey. So, everybody can say a lot of things. But I would say that, you know, you should look at what size that I want to get in. What percentage I want, what percentage of business that I should look at in. Okay. Yeah, that's very important. People doesn't look into that. So, what are the advantages of going for number four and not for number one? The advantage of going for number four is that your investment is less. You have more time to look into the business. And you can really understand the market very well, what the people are looking at.

25:03So research is also going along with that. When you look at the first, what happens is, oh, come on, I want you to be first. You will never become first at one stretch. No way. Your slow and steady wins the race. That's very important. very important in business in life everything is very important if you go slow and understand the business perfectly you're a winner I say the same thing to all my all my friends who want to get into my industry as well and people who want to make podcasts I say the same thing to them that if you want to make money like really want to make money go for number two number three number four don't aim to be number one because because it's easier to make money when you're on number two or number three correct because as number one you have so many costs which a number two number three person won't have correct because number two doesn't have to innovate doesn't have to experiment they don't have to travel all around the world trying to figure out that one small idea which will work correct you don't have to spend on large marketing teams stuff like that they just have to see what are one two three four are doing copy that do it better and keep doing it correct And then just enjoy the Rippagash.

26:15Plus, number one also has to, in any industry, which is the biggest cost, which not people talk about it, you would agree to it. They need to have a big legal team. Correct. Big legal team. Number one has to have such a big legal team. Absolutely. Everything which is a controversy in the industry, in the world, will come to number one. Exactly. So number one has to be like, I didn't do anything, but somebody somewhere did, so things come to you. Absolutely. You're correct. 100 % correct 2, 3, 4 have to be chilling not have to do so make money they can see what is happening in them and then only you can make corrections exactly and you won't even get hounded by so many other players correct only all all the players in your industry and in my industry would be plotting planning against number 1 100 % against number 2 number 3 nobody is planning nobody is bothered at all nobody is bothered nobody is bothered they leave it there okay let's let it go exactly so it's a great space to make money if you are number two number three number four yeah but if you want after you have achieved number two number three then you have that little extra that I want to now kill then you are prepared that okay let's go for number one absolutely you will know all the nuances in the whole thing you know and you will financially rich to actually aim for number one yeah absolutely correct we got a factory in China okay yeah we produced Paprika oliva Extract in China Okay Yeah And how is it going Okay I can't say 100 % perfect But You can't get their products In India right Yeah we bring in You bring Yeah So why China China because cost Okay It's cheaper to It's cheaper to Yeah yeah 100 % 100 % The cost of labour Is cheaper in India right It's almost safe What's cheaper in China The raw material See This is not a cheap question of the cheapness cheap product cheap is the question of like for example if you want to have paprika in one acre Chinese paprika will give at least four to five metric tons of paprika seeds paprika pods if you look in India one acre will give you only one ton one and a half tons that's the difference the efficacy there is very high the cultivation so the advantage is the farmer gets good money the manufacturer is good money the consumer will get a better pricing that's the difference the volume that's a bowling game it is not that is it because they have better technology or is it because they have just perfected the art of they perfected the seeds they make good hybrid seeds high yielding varieties that's the reason so it's technology and education absolutely their agriculture university their technology their R &D their QC they work day and night we don't do that no we make one seed and then give it to the farmers but when rain comes it goes there it is not they perfect it to all climatic conditions how are they able to do it they have the engineering system for that but a normal farmer who is not educated who doesn't understand who is probably forefathers has been just growing one particular crop or seed they are trying to extract that particular thing right for years so that person is only going as per what they know and then whatever new or new company is coming and selling them they'll buy if they like it and that's how they grow right they're not going to learn about cutting-ish technology or hiring engineers to perfect their entire yielding of a of a farmland everywhere where there's low education low knowledge and low income this would be a challenge at some point so China would have gone through this challenge sure today how have they perfected it in India because you know the agriculture the university is working closer with the farming community.

30:12That's the support they give. Are we getting the support here? No. That's the problem. What we do as Sintat as a group, we give seeds to the farmers. We ask the farmers not to use high pesticides. We give normal organic pesticides and we'll ask the farmers that we'll buy back the raw material at more than the munker price. so we get a premium price in the market when you sell the extract you say controlled system cultivation we have done see there are a lot of things that we have to it is not the manufacturing alone we have to do the backward integration at the same time we have to do the forward integration too and you have to empower every stakeholder exactly because everybody should be profitable like farmers should make money the middleman should make money the manufacturer should make money the final consumer should be get at a very competitive pricing that should be your thinking business is not just manufacturing business is not just marketing are you competitive in the market why question a lot of not by advocating by giving a perfect product with a perfect engineering see that kind of thinking actually builds empires right that's the reason why you've been able to expand exactly why do you want to do supplement which is such a small market you're just not a small market I can tell you see US market is about 180, 190 billion US dollars.

31:38I'm talking about this about three years back. I don't know how many billion has gone up because after COVID it's gone double. I know that. Indian market is about, you couldn't look at it, about 4 ,000, 6 ,000 crores or not more than that because our awareness to these supplements is very low. The reason is because we got Ayurveda here. we got homeo here we got allopathy here three things together here and a lot of other things are also there but I am majorly talking about the three the three are attacking the real cause of the disease supplements as a nutraceutical means nutraceutical supplements is just allowing the person who is taking it it will only prevent the disease it will not cure the disease we are coming over trying to come out with injectables injectables you will get injections to you will get injections to drive into the blood vessels all supplements isn't that scary no who said nothing it is it is proved wait explain through drips or through directly just a shot no through drip as well as you can directly do a shot but you that's not advisable for a person to do it themselves.

33:02No, not themselves. You can go to the doctor and take it. No way. Not doing it yourself. You can put in curcumin, you can put in ashwagandha, you can put anything. Isn't that dangerous and scary because you're dealing with needles and you're just putting it, you don't know what you're putting it in your body? You're putting a solution. Look at it. Just like you're putting any other antibiotic into your system. It's the same thing. Injectables are like that. But it has to be doctor prescribed. It has to be doctor prescribed. Yeah, right? Like you won't sell it OTC. No. You can't? You can't. Okay.

33:35So doctors will do that. Because that gives a bigger advantage than all these capsules. At the same time, capsules also will go because people who are scared of the injections, people who don't want to go and take a shot in a week or something like that, they will not have time for them to do that. Capsules are better. I prefer capsules. I'm sorry. but you know I have a lot of inquiries for and a lot of doctors are talking to me regarding the injectables that's the next step that's injectables yeah that's the next growing step 100 % I can tell you but is it a borderline grey area no I don't think so how can you say that no I'm asking like it's a people will not you cannot buy it in the market anyway you'll get only from the doctors okay okay so I was assuming that you can buy it go to doctors and get no no no sorry sorry I messed up so it's only doctor prescribed doctors will only give it and they can see it okay then injectable makes sense because it'll be faster reacting on your body so it'll be great it goes straight to the blood vessel so same let's say the trend of glutamine has all around the world or the trend of vitamin D shots correct absolutely correct A lot of people are taking Vegemity Peptides as well For longevity And biotid They are taking injections Plus now the Peptides Trend all around the world For longevity So injectables Correct Injectables So that you are entering next Yeah We have to enter Otherwise what's the point You have to scale up To the next level There's a term called Fairy dusting You know this Fairy dusting So in supplement industry You use it a lot So fairy dusting is You put one tenth of an extract or an efficacy kind of product which is the main ingredient just enough that you could put it on a label and get the FSSI or any regulatory body sorted actually it's just fillers and powders the I understand the real extract which you're claiming it on your supplement is probably one tenth or one hundredth of what you're claiming right so it's just like a fairy dust okay so it doesn't It doesn't work on...

35:53But the thing is that whatever product if you go throwing to the FSSA they'll check every detail. But they face a lot of consumer confidence problems these days, right? Because a lot of products which are approved by them have also not been... See, what's the process is like this. You take the FSSA and then we are taking to the clinical study. Then only we will take the product out. We don't stop anywhere. No, you don't. I'm asking about the other industry. See, basically what they have to do... ice you don't need anything you just put make the powder make a capsule give it 2 in the morning 2 in the evening and price is low and you can add starch into it starch is not an alternative so then how do you deal with it how widespread is this that claiming that your supplement has let's say curcumin extract but in reality it's just 100th or something which is technically negligible has no effect on your body.

36:53But it is all trials that you can have in a human body. How widespread is this practice that other people are claiming it one thing and then giving one thing? That is the biggest challenge that we are facing today. That's the reason why Suntite, our NatExtra brand is not climbing up faster because of this kind of product which is coming into the market. They are specifying it. They are specifying it but the product is not that. Product's not good Yeah Because it is They're blending with A lot of other things I cannot I cannot name any brand Or anything like that But they are not blending They are not See you should justify The Whatever you do You should justify yourself first That's what I think And if you're making A curcumin If you're making A turmeric powder You must see that You know The powder has got As much of curcumin percentage Or 95 % curcumin in it Or the active ingredient Is active in that In a 500 gram capsule What's the percentage?

37:49that you should think. So, there are a lot of people who can, for example, today, if it's a turmeric price is around 90 rupees, just take an example for it. And suddenly, the price went up to 160 rupees. And my bottle price is about 300 rupees. What is it going to do? You'll reduce. A lot of people will reduce. And what it adds? Is it such? Simple. But then, then the bottle will say, two capsules in the morning or three capsules in the morning and three capsules in the evening. Simple. The body will take their stuff. And they are not adulterating. This is starch. Starch is normally... See, these powder guys almost use starch.

38:34How bad it is for me? It is not bad. It's just starch. Starch is not a bad thing. It's a filler actually. But it's doing nothing. Doing nothing. It's just filling there because it's just compensating the 90 rupees and 160 rupees. That's it. Simple as that. one thing which I could tell you is about marigold extract I was doing we were doing marigold extract in 1994 and we were extracting the marigold for the chicken feed and further if you extract that extract you get a product called lutein for the degeneration of ice that's a proven one and we were doing it for a company in Mexico it's called and then we booked up an order and And we were doing two years, it went good.