How RHONY's Carole Radziwill Discovered She Had $700k Hidden in Investments

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2:39I wrote What Remains about my life and growing up broke, humbled, and about the death of my husband and them. They died the same month, so in 1999. My husband put in$50 ,000. It just sat in that account for 30 years. $640 ,000? Yeah, it was something crazy. It was some crazy amount. Yeah, I did inherit Jackie's Cartier watch. I ended up selling at auction. Because it was cursed. Well, the curse was like three women were in possession of the watch and all three were widowed in their 30s.

3:19Haley: Whoa. This is Financial Tea. Welcome back to Financial Tea. This is a podcast where I teach you how to build wealth with a side of market drama, money scandals, and of course, financial pop culture, which is why today we have none other than my bestie, the famed Real Housewives of New York City, one of my favorite writers, woman about town, queen of everywhere, Carol Roswell. Welcome to the studio. Took long enough, girl. You would think I have a direct line to you. Yes, you do. But it didn't work. I had to drag you in here. Well, you know, I don't think about money that much or care about it too much and i'm not terribly good with it so i don't think i have anything trust and believe i have nothing to uh enlighten your your viewers about about money well we don't want to learn from you per se i want to learn from you you never teach me shit about i teach you no you don't the voo i was the one that found out about the voo and then i told you the voo story And then you're like, oh, yeah, you should invest in this whatever it's called stock market index fund.

4:36Tell them what happened with the bill. OK, I will tell because I'm of a certain age and I've worked my whole life. You know, you pay into Social Security and all these things that you completely forget about by the time you're like ready to take it. I'm not ready to take my Social Security yet. So I haven't been thinking about it. But it turns out after my husband, Anthony, passed away in 1999, and he also was paying into Social Security for all those years he worked. And as the executor of the will and trustee and, I guess, widow, I get his Social Security when he would turn 60 or something. But I didn't know about it.

5:24It's like, who knows about it? So I'm just like living my life. And then someone like offhandedly said, oh, well, you know, what about your late husband's social security? I'm like, what do you mean? What about it? And they go, you're entitled to it. I was like, what? I am? T-t-t, call it, you know, went to the website. I'm like, what is this? I put it in his social security. Boom, comes up. So I'm in it because of my husband. and they start sending me these letters that like, uh, you might be owed money from this. You might be owed money from this based on my husband's social security number.

6:00So I'm like, finally, we have a point person for this account. We've got a lot to share. And they're kind of like form letters. So I'm like ignoring them. And, and, and it turns out that, uh, I didn't know this, but, but Anthony was a member of like the producers guild of America. Like, I'm like, oh, okay. What is that? And so I call them. They're like, oh yeah, you know, we were looking for you. We sent you a letter back in 2009. They said, well, since it's been so long and I never took any of the monthly stipend or whatever, it was like$8 ,000. But then there was an additional like death benefit.

6:41It came to like multi thousands of dollars, like maybe five zeros, you know? Wow. Okay. Over 10. Yeah. I think it was over 10. They said that you can take this in a lump sum or you can take it in monthly installments of like whatever that would be. Yeah. But they suggested I take it in a lump sum because it was so much money at that point. Usually people like just, they, they get it right away. So it's just, so I said, okay, I'll take the lump sum. And they, they sent me the check. I was like, This is like winning the lottery. And then I still get$38 a month from direct deposit into my little checking account from the Producers Guild of America.

7:25So that was one thing. So then they were sending me this, like, I worked for Disney ABC News, right, for 15 years. My husband worked there for like eight or 10 years. They did workplace romance, FYI. Yes, yes. That's when you were allowed to date at your workplace. I know.

7:39Haley: There weren't all these narcs around. You could be sexy in the workplace and flirt with your boss. I mean, honestly, we were in the office all the time. I know, doing hand jobs. That's where everyone met their partner. Yeah, I know what kind of review you were giving. The only thing is like they did, even back then, they looked down on like, you know, superiors dating, you know, interns, whatever. Yeah. But it happened. But it wasn't like it just happened. come on to him or he came on to you? Cause it is sort of weird if it's like your superior and they're being like pervy towards you. Yeah. Well, he, we, he, Anthony and I were at the same level.

8:19Okay. Um, well, I think he, he might've been an associate producer. I was a production assistant. Yeah. Um, and then we met and no, neither of us, we just met on a, the Menendez brothers story.

8:30Haley: Yeah, of course. In LA and, uh, and went to dinner a couple of times and then left and went back to New York. Actually, I went to Louisiana for like three months to do a documentary on abortion and we didn't see each other that much. And then we kind of, when we got back, we saw each other like in the cafeteria or like places around the building. And it was like a slow and steady burn. And then we hid it for like a year because we were like, so like, you know, we both work. Yeah. Sort of sexy to hide it though. Yeah. Well, we thought we were hiding it. I think probably the bosses kind of knew, but you know yeah but anyway so he worked he worked there i worked there and and and that's when disney was giving pensions i don't know companies give pensions now yeah it's not as much yeah well disney i know when his act companies as long so it's like oh interesting yeah okay a lot of those benefits come from being loyal oh yeah okay so i i was very loyal to disney i was there like 14 plus Sears.

9:32So I knew I got some sort of pension. Um, it's not very much, but you know, there's also kind of lottery money for, and, um, and then Anthony got a pension and there was something from the social security department that said he had like some kind of, what I interpreted to be a 401k. So what I interpreted to be a 401k.

9:57Haley: I didn't know what it was.

10:01Haley: I didn't know exactly what it was. What? They said retirement. I don't know. They said retirement. I'm like 401k love. Well, it turned out to be something slightly different. Because it was money that was invested in compounding. No, but he had a 401k. And then Disney had this other retirement account option that you could pay into. Of course, I didn't pay into shit. I was like, I need my money. I like to spend my money. Why? I don't like retirement. Like, I'm like 27 years old, 30 years old. I'm like, I'm not thinking about like when I'm 60. Who cares? So, and my husband was a little bit more financially.

10:41And now you're so happy that he did it.

10:42Haley: So you can tell all of us to do it. It's like, it's fun when you're older. Right. So he invested secretly, I guess. Or maybe he told me, but I forgot. And it turned out, thank you, Social Security Department, that it took me about six or eight months, even up to a year to like get around to like calling them. And I was like, finally, look, is there a retirement account? Is there a 401k? They're like, well, you rolled over his 401k back in 2000. I was like, okay, that's what I thought. They're like, but what about his retirement account? I was like, what retirement account? They were like, well, you're listed as the beneficiary.

11:18I said, isn't that the 401k? They're like, no, that's a separate account. So I'm like, well, what is that? And my husband, being much more financially astute and conservative than me, put in about, it was like a lot of$50 ,000. Maybe it was some Disney stock, but a bulk of it was in this index fund, which I didn't know anything about. And because I didn't know the account existed. You didn't touch it. And I didn't know how to access it. And nobody along the way, when I was doing the estate and probate, found it either. That it just sat in that account. Compounding. For 30 years. And that is how I learned about compounding interest.

12:11Yes. Because how much was it by the time you took it out? It was in the high six figures. Yeah.

12:17Haley: No, it wasn't. It was like 700 something. It was combined with Disney stock, which of course I sold right away. Because I could. Top Iger who. Because I could. But the fund, because it was a retirement account. It's a little complicated. But I was the beneficiary. So I could roll it into another retirement account or 401k. And I did. I was like, the guy, when he was telling me, I thought he said like$6 ,470. I was like, just send me a check. He's like, ma 'am, I can't send you a check for this amount. I'm like,$6 ,000? $640 ,000? Yeah, it was something crazy. It was some crazy amount. And yeah.

12:59Because you also had that. But my husband knows if I had known about the account. You would have taken it out. I would have taken, probably taken it out like if it doubled, because I'd be like, it doubled. yeah that's okay like obvious that's crazy i should take it and like spend it on something great on my house i mean it was literally like i mean remember when i told i was like no it was so i was peeing my pants the lottery it literally was a lottery but also maybe there

13:28Haley: should be a new retirement account where people yeah i want to hear about that well because you know he it's just like he took care of me yeah it felt almost like an angel or something because it was a moment too where you needed a little something and he knew me so well he's like I'm not going to tell her about this because she didn't know about compound interest and he obviously did he took care of you and he just took care of me it was just so touching it was so touching you just feel like It was so unusual the way it all happened. Yeah. And the timing. And the timing and everything. And so that's why, like you were saying, my life before going back to Roni, it was pretty perfect.

14:19I mean, I was just doing the things I love to do, traveling, writing. We have a dining club that we do on Sundays.

14:28Haley: We had our private dining club. We had our private dining club. Yeah, where we make our friend Max cook us dinner. And I don't know. It was like it was never in my thought process. So how did you end up going back? You know, and I will say Andy eventually asked if I would consider it. But even before that, I was talking about manifesting and my late husband and that story. But I feel like because it was not on my, you know, it was not on my radar at all. I had to promote a documentary I worked on about George magazine and John Kennedy, right? I was, you know, I think it was an important story to tell.

15:11I wanted to get out there because George was such a big part of his identity when he passed away.

15:17Haley: For contacts, I mean, obviously, I feel like most people know this, but if you're new to Carol, explain your connection to... Well, Anthony, my very fiscally responsible husband, was John Kennedy's first cousin. And they were very, very close. And so I was very close to him and also his wife, Carolyn. And then I wrote What Remains about my life and growing up broke and humble and working at ABC and all that stuff. And about the death of my husband and them. They died the same month. So in 1999. So it's been many, many years. And there are some times where I want to, you know, I, I think I want to talk about legacy over privacy, you know, and that was one of the times I thought, you know, this was John's, you know, child, you know, he, he, he really loved this idea.

16:08It was a great idea for a magazine. And, and so anyway, so I wanted to promote this documentary that I had worked on. And so I went on Watch What Happens Live and, you know. Oh, and that, I remember when you went on that girl and it popped off. Yeah, I was so nervous. I'm like, no one's going to remember me. Like, who cares? I haven't been in this world for eight years. And Andy was like, don't worry, don't worry. It's going to be great. It's going to be great. Because he's like the ultimate optimist. Yeah. And I'm not like that. And sure enough, it sort of exploded. And I feel like they manifested this more than anything else, because I think there was so much goodwill in the fandom for the years that I'd spent on Aroni and and the subsequent years where I wasn't that much in touch.

16:58but but there was a lot of nostalgia um there was there was just a lot of goodwill and I think I would say you know going to Bravo Con and seeing that and feeling that and not only me but the Bravo executives or whoever follows this saw it too and felt it like there was a constant drum beat you know we want you back why are you coming back come back come back come back come back and I I remember being at BravoCon and I did 50 press interviews and they all said, are you coming back? And I was like, said, no, I said, absolutely not. I think like give the new girls, you know, a chance. And it's only been two seasons.

17:40I'm not in that world anymore, but it's great. And I love to be here with all the fans.

17:45Haley: Because sometimes like when there's a new cast, the old housewives can disparage them. But you didn't do that. You didn't shoot yourself in the foot in that way. No, no, because I remember coming on in season five and Bravo kind of, you know, switched the cast up. There were three new people, me, Heather, and Aviva, and then the three or four of the older cast. And the audience did not like us. And it took two seasons. and then it just sort of started all switched, yeah. When you spend enough time around great companies, you notice that the best ones treat trust as a growth strategy, not a box to check.

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19:59Haley: Thanks to OG for sponsoring this episode. OG, a higher stander for your beauty. You've been involved in reality TV for such a long time. do you think that that has changed from a cultural perspective like do you think that you've you're seen differently now than you might have been 10 years ago like is it more respected now well I mean when I first joined there was no Instagram right yeah so I'm not aware of the whole social media aspect of it I feel like social media is like an own separate little tv show now yeah 100 where you ever self-produces it right you're on Roni and that's a tv show and then you're on this social media you're on youtube and instagram and tiktok but it's also interesting too because that creates all of these ancillary dividends like you know roni you obviously get paid to be on the show but then what it really does is platform someone and then they can leverage that to make more money and so you see that with you know housewives creating businesses or you have your subset i think women do it for a lot of different it's funny because i saw something recently and kyle richards was asked like do you think you know do you think um that being on the show um is detrimental to marriages relationships and all that because it appears yeah there's like oh the housewives curse and you're gonna everything's gonna blow up yeah but but she said something and i really have to agree like women do this for a lot of different reasons but I think maybe one of the reasons is that there's just maybe something not perfect about the life that they're living.

21:36And this is an opportunity to do something so out of the box, so completely different.

21:41Haley: But wait, let's be real, though. You're not the first woman in your family to be part of this certain New York scene. Because your mother-in-law, Lee Roswell, was Jackie Cudney, Onazis' sister. She was a socialite. She was one of Truman Capote's swans. I always say they were the original reality show. Really? Were they so funny together? No, no, but I'm saying with their ordinary life was really documented. Oh, I thought you meant like they were so sassy and like. They were. I mean, what were they? What was the vibe? Their life, their ordinary life. I mean, it wasn't, it was an extraordinary life, but the ordinary things they did every day, I felt so documented.

22:24Haley: Yeah, I'd be like, they're going to the park with their granddaughter and there'd be a million pictures. So, I mean, I feel like that was the original, like, family that the public was, you know, obsessed with. The Kennedys for sure. Yeah. And I think those two specifically. What was it like to be part of that world and that family in New York in the 90s? You know, the 90s, gosh, everyone. Um, you know, it, it was, it was, it was all the things that I think, you know, uh, every woman who's getting married, integrating in their husband's family and thinking about family, thinking about, you know, and on top of that, Anthony was diagnosed with cancer.

23:06So navigating all of that. Um, but you know, so, so there was.

23:11Haley: Were you intimidated though to enter that? Cause it's like, you're, you meet this guy, you meet him at work, you meet him in the context of work. I'm sure there was like rumors about him. Oh, like, do you know who his mom is or whatever? Yeah. But you know, you were. He had the, like the original tagline. It was always like, oh, Anthony Radziwell, the son of Jackie Kennedy's sister Lee. Like it was all, it was like his tagline. Like everyone who said it, you know, when. So Kat's a big shadow on him for sure. I think so. But he handled it with such grace and class, you know, he just showed up and he was.

23:48Did he confront it to you like in your early dating?

23:51Haley: Was he like, hey, babe, like we're going to meet my mom just so you know, she is Jackie O's sister. No. Okay. I'll tell you. Or did he assume that you knew? No, I'll tell you. I'll tell you. Like I said, we kind of were dating like secretly because we were like the couple at ABC News. You were the it couple. Right. And we didn't want like everyone to know and all this. But what also, what also, and I think it's, it's unfortunate that with social media, you really can't do this, but like it's those beginning moments, those, the beginning time of any new relationship, what it needs really is privacy, right?

24:26To get to know each other. And like, you're not, you're not, people aren't in your ear and stuff. So just because of our circumstances, Anthony and I were more private. And because of that also, I didn't want to meet his family. I remember being with Anthony. We were having dinner and then he was like, it was John's birthday. And he was having some birthday party. Was he always saying like, oh, my cousin John.

24:58Haley: I love John. He wasn't. He wasn't. Like, we didn't really talk about it much, but he's like, do you want to come? And I remember thinking, I don't want to, I'm not ready for that. Like, I just, I just wanted to be Anthony and I. And I, we were dating like almost a year before I met his mom and his stepdad at the time of Herbert Ross. So by that time, I was very confident in my relationship. Like, Anthony and I were like really bonded. I knew it was going to be probably end in marriage. marriage or at that time I thought like just living together. I love that about you too, that like, even though it was like the nineties and it was a different time for women, like you've always been so independent and feminist and, you know, about your independence.

25:42Haley: I mean, I think that got that from my mom. Yeah. You weren't like, Oh, I want to have a white dress and have the kids. You were like, yeah, I met this great guy, but maybe we'll live together. well we ended up living together for like two years before we got engaged and uh and that was mostly like a real estate decision because you know in new york in new york i had an apartment he had an apartment yeah we were both paying uh he was paying more rent than than i was and i was spending a lot more time at his apartment it's like when my lease is up like should i renew my lease but it's like i'm spending so much time and he was like don't renew your lease live with me money thing yeah I think a lot of couples get together that way it's like my lease is up well come move in with me yeah and I was like all right I had the kind of nicer apartment it was because I'm a girl but it was far away his your his was yours was in like Harlem and his was in like the upper east side yeah yeah but so but obviously like they were so big in the culture him and Carolyn so you like what was it like to meet them versus like what was that first meet You know, not only was I sort of confident in my relationship with Anthony, but at that point I'd been at ABC News for some period of time and I had traveled and I had been places and I, you know, I worked with Peter Jennings documentary unit at that time.

27:03So like, I felt like it was probably naive of the naivete of youth, but I was like, I'm on the level. Yeah.

27:10Haley: I love John. Be like, me and Carolyn Passat, two girls just on the go in New York. Well, she kind of grew up similar to how I grew up. And, you know, she met John and had a relationship. I met Anthony, had a relationship. She was making it, you know, a name for herself in fashion. I was making a name for myself in news. But, you know, I remember, like, telling, like, you know, a story at lunch that I was going to Cambodia. And, like, you know, it was a big deal. That was a really big deal. And, but of course, you know, Lee had already been to Cambodia. Lee's like Cambodia, Shmambodia. Yeah. She's like, she was there in the sixties.

27:47You're like, no, that's my cool story. But she was great. She was great. And, you know, she knew it was an important relationship to, to her son. So. So she wasn't like annoying mother-in-law. Like. No, she never really was meddlesome, you know, because again, she had her own full life that she loved. and you know we saw a lot of her you know especially in the summer every weekend and we'd be over at her place a lot but she she didn't meddle in our our relationship and especially you know after we got married and of course Anthony was you know was diagnosed then so I took charge and she she stepped back a little which I appreciated you know and as someone who

28:32Haley: I mean, there's obviously been such a resurgence in interest here. I think so. That's why mostly because of love story. Yeah. So, you know, I know you didn't watch it, but. No, I did not. Do you think from what you've heard, was there anything that they got right? What do you think they got the most wrong besides they made your husband fat, which I know is upsetting to you. I know. Besides that. I'm going to defend his honor. They did you dirty, girl. He was a sexy guy. He went to the gym every day. Let it be known. Yes. We're putting it on the record now. Anthony had a hot body. He was very fit.

29:04He did go to the gym every single morning. Like Carol was asleep. No, I slept. He was up at six going to the gym.

29:11Haley: She's like, oh, by the way, Carol, tell them what time you had to get to work in the 90s. What time? Yeah. At ABC 10. Was that like, Carol, what'd you do before work? She was like, wake up. This was not like, like the like hustle culture. You go to SoulCycle with your clothes before work. Life was slower. and chic or and like you just like you know get up and put what do you think it got the most wrong love story oh yeah um i well i didn't watch i didn't obviously watch the any of the episodes but but it was such a cultural phenomenon which i was not expecting um and so i saw a lot of it on on social media like at certain points i just couldn't even pick up my phone like it was it was like it was like an assault like every it was horrible like all the guys wearing the little stupid hats yeah I mean I wasn't aware of all of that but you have to remember I also that was this like the same week that I started filming Real Housewives so I will say like like if the universe is conspiring with me and the fans were manifesting that and I have angels looking out for me like that moment in my life um you know up until that that moment in the bravo con of it all you know my life was peace baby like yeah we're chilling yeah and and just enjoying friends and travel and everything um but when i started filming that you know the whole city was talking about love story so we were walking down north moore i didn't remember that yes you i almost gotten to a fight.

30:51Yeah.

30:51Haley: Cause there were, we were people outside of his old apartment and they were taking pictures and Carol was like two girls taking like selfies. Yeah. And you were like, what are you doing? Yeah. I was like, Carol, we gotta go. Carol's about to like throw down. Yeah. You were going to do a black talk. I was like, we gotta leave. I know. You know, that was towards the end. And I just, it was, it was so much. It was so much. And, um, you'll see, you'll see uh you'll see some of it on roni yeah because i couldn't i couldn't get away from it and of course you know the other cast were genuinely uh interested in it and watching it and asking questions and stuff so you know it was um what do you think it got wrong though oh what i think that they did enough research to get like little details of things like what there was a fight in the park.

31:45Um, um, and, and, uh, you know, one thing they got wrong is my husband didn't dive to testicular cancer, which really bothered me. Um, he died of sarcoma. I wrote extensively about it. Um, so that was a weird detail that they could easily have, but you know, testicular cancer was a little more like provocative or I don't know why they would make, you know, there's language around that disease that is more provocative than talking about sarcoma, which not a lot of people know about. But some of the details they got right, and then they just made up the, obviously, they made up the dialogue and everything else around that detail.

32:36Obviously, none of them ever met any of us, and nor did they try to reach out, you know, to, to, and not, I'm not saying that if they had reached out to me or anyone, you know, Narciso who was very close to us and John's friends who I still know, or, you know, I don't think any of us would have participated in giving them context, but like, I'll never forget this one detail about Kentucky, uh, Carolyn, there was a scene where she was eating a bucket of Kentucky fried chicken and people were DMing me about that. Like, you know, did Carolyn eat Kentucky fried chicken? And it was so weird for me because we did.

33:16And I was like, nobody would know about the Kentucky Fried Chicken Buckets, right? Except for Carol and me, Anthony and John. We used to bring it to the hospital. We would get sandwiches from William Pohl, which is a very exclusive deli on the Upper East Side. Or Anthony and John. I guess they ate a little healthy. but we just loved, you know, we went to Wendy's a lot. It was just a time where we just needed like comfort food. And I just couldn't understand where, how they would know about that. So I was like, I went, this was a good use of AI. I typed into, I guess, chat or Google, I don't know.

33:59Anywhere in Carol Redswell's book, What Remains mentions Kentucky Fried Chicken, because I didn't remember right. I didn't write about it. And sure enough, I wrote a schedule when Anthony first started his chemotherapy and we're in the hospital a lot. There was, I was such a reporter, such a producer. I wrote a schedule saying 9 a.m., this visitor, this visitor and like lunch, you know. KFC. Yeah. No, and then dinner, 8 p.m., Carolyn John Hamilton, who's a very close family friend, John. And it said, KFC like

34:35Haley: how does it feel to have your like obviously so much money was made on love story and off of their stories but you're not profiting from it no and I'm okay with that like I don't you know my book did go back on the best yeah I don't think of it that's in the culture yeah and yeah it's too big of a thing to like be demanding or upset about those people are gonna people have always made made money off of off of public stories totally um um people even criticized me when i wrote my memoir that i was you know uh making money off of that yes off of my own story about my life, my husband and my friends.

35:29And, um, um, but what remains went back on the best bestseller list. I saw it was so cool. We can do like the finger touch.

35:39Haley: A finger touch. Oh, like in the Wicked. I love that. Um, you know, and that also is bittersweet and you'll see that in my reaction to all of that in Rony as well. Cause we were filming, I was filming a scene when my when my publisher called to tell me. So I was like. Wow. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. So you'll see what happens with all of that. I feel like you are an amazing example of life after a spouse's death. You own being a widow in this amazing way and have cultivated such a full life for yourself. and like that you really, and have defined yourself outside of it so much. And I just wonder if there's - Really, sometimes I feel like I'm like - I feel like you - Like because of the book, because of the attention, because of the recent attention, I just feel like I'm like, I'm still considered, you know, a widow.

36:37I mean, technically I am because I never remarried, but like - Oh, you mean like it's like a -

36:41Haley: It's like a tag. It's like a tag, yeah. But I feel like it - Like even on the boxes, like single, married, divorced, widowed is a box like you check. So I'm like always checking widowed. Yeah. It's weird. I know. I mean, but I wonder for people who are, do you have anything specific to offer other widows, even though that's obviously not a box that everyone wants to check, you know, you know, maybe information about finances after the death of a spouse. Like I mean, I was widowed so young. So just for all you young widows out there, you can collect your husband's Social Security. And when he turned 60 or when I turned 60, I'm not sure which one it was.

37:27Got life insurance? Um, yeah, like I don't have life insurance, but also I don't have children. So like if I die with like a dollar in my bank, as you know, I won't because I'm good at spending it. Um, I'll consider that a failure. I don't, I think when, when you're a life as child free, you don't, I'm not thinking of legacy in the same way. So I'm not, I'm not trying to build generational wealth. Yeah. Yeah.

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38:42Haley: Hyperbound, a YC-backed startup, used Vanta to unlock the Fortune 100 in under a year. Snowfire got audit-ready in a month and closed a multi-million dollar deal. Trust matters. Get started at Vanta.com. I was thinking also a lot in terms of about assets after someone dies, because I have this Cartier watch, and I know that you inherited a watch. And so tell us a little bit about that, too. Is that a new watch? No, this is, I've had this for like, maybe I got this when I got my book deal. You have generational. I know, this I bought myself, girl. You did? Yeah, this is not the, but like, yeah, I did inherit Jackie's Cartier watch, which through a series of very strange events, I ended up selling at auction.

39:32Because it was cursed. Well, I came, I created, you know, based on the facts of what happened to the three women who were in possession of that watch, that there was something about that watch that linked, you know, all of us, Jackie Kennedy in the 60s, me in the 90s, and then my best friend in the 2010s. and uh yeah i just thought there was there was some some curse some something like cursed about the watch so i thought was the curse well the curse was like three women were in possession of the watch and all three were widowed in their 30s whoa so so i i had this idea that which i think i got from an indiana jones movie like when you return something that's cursed its place of origin that it breaks the curse uh listen as a reporter and as you know i'm very logical rational person but it was just like i do also believe in the universe and coincidence is not always coincidence and so i decided to um auction the watch at christie's uh with the hope and intention of of cartier bidding on it which they did and buying it back and like yeah um that didn't exactly happen and then it was at the very last second of the auction um kim kardashian bought

40:55Haley: it yeah so and then she returned it too well you know i don't i don't know her i've met her a few times and we have a bunch of mutual friends yeah um so if i didn't believe in the curse when i found out that she was the one who purchased it i definitely believed yeah not only did i believe But I thought, oh, my God, I underestimated the power of it because my intention was to, like, I don't care if Cartier doesn't get it, someone else will buy it. And someone I don't know who I don't care about is some like, you know, some collector in Hong Kong. But that she had it and we had all these mutual friends.

41:32I just thought it boomeranged back at me. So crazy. So she had heard rumblings of this curse through mutual friends. And so, in fact, she did want to return it. She ended up paying for it. And she called Christie's and said, I'm not going to take possession of the watch and that they should sell it privately. So that did happen. So it got returned. It got returned. It got Indiana Jones.

42:06Yeah, after I had some conversations with our mutual friends and I heard that she was very nervous and wanted to perhaps return it, I said, you should do what she thinks is right. And I totally understand. But then I never heard about it again. And like two years went by and someone sent me a clip from her reality show and she was like wearing the watch or she was talking about the Kennedy watch.

42:30Haley: And I was like, it's a fake watch. Yeah. So then I called Christie's like, where's the watch? What's going on? And they told me that it was still in the vault under Rockefeller Center, which is where Christie's is. And I said, you need to call Cartier. And he did. And they eventually - They returned it. Yeah. It was a crazy story. That's such a good story. Okay. We're going to wrap up, but I want to just ask you a little bit about your apartment because I feel like you're someone who really, you benefit so much from assets. Like you've had this apartment for such a long time. Yeah. And it's like.

43:04Well, my first apartment that we bought, Anthony and I bought when we first got married, appreciated, you know, it was the 90s. New York was much more financially livable and affordable. And we bought our apartment on 82nd and Park for$450 ,000, which at the time. Seemed like a fortune. Was kind of a small fortune. Yeah. And it was a classic six, two bedrooms. Wow. They used to call it maids room, which I'm sure they don't anymore. I grew up in a classic six and that maids room, honey, that was my sister's room. Yeah, yeah. I mean, they're just like a smaller bedroom. I turned ours into an office.

43:39And then after he passed away in 99, I sold it. I did all the things that widows, you know, I was supposed to do. I left ABC. I sold our apartment. I was like, I was not the perfect widow in those years after. What do they say that you should do? They say that you should not do those. don't make any big life-changing decisions for the first year or two you know just sort of settle down i immediately i left abc it was too hard to go there yeah i understand and and then i sold her apartment but i saw i sold it for 1.2 something whoa yeah i mean that was more money like i was like damn and it was only like six years of that's crazy yeah more than doubled It more than doubled in a short period of time.

44:23And then I took that money and bought my current apartment, which also doubled, probably more than doubled now.

44:32Haley: Yeah. But it's also been 20, you know, 20 to 24 years. Yeah. So you bought it no mortgage? No. What do you mean? Like you took the 1.2 and bought it outright? No. No, I did what everyone does. You have a mortgage. Yeah. So what percent are we, because I know it's like a low, you have like a low percent. Oh, well, I'm trying to create envy, Carol, for your living situation in New York. You have a beautiful apartment that we all know has no handle on the staircase. It's a, you know, but it's stunning. I invest, I reinvest a lot. A lot of how I spend my money now is reinvesting in my home. Fireplaces.

45:17Haley: is. Yeah, but I feel like she'll wake up and call me and say, well, I have to have a French home. And then the next six months are spent refurbishing to be more French. I've done, I've redone my apartment pretty much top, top to bottom every like five to seven years. But, but like you said, it's, isn't, it's an, it's not spending money. It's investing money. I also bought my car on eBay for$4 ,900. So it's not like I'm spending, you know, I could get an expensive car. But I have a mortgage like everyone else. But my interest is like 2.4. It's crazy. But I did this interest only, I think, for a bit of time.

46:00Was that wrong?

46:01Haley: No, I think if you have a 2.4 % mortgage, keep the mortgage. Keep the mortgage. Because the stock market returns 8 % to 10%. So you're borrowing money at a lower rate than you could make investing it, which means that you can make a profit. So you're a genius. You're the real Mrs. Dow Jones. But when you're on the Housewives now, it's like everyone, it is sort of a like dick measuring contest a little bit of like who has what. You know what I mean? Like people, the girls show up with their little Kellys and their glam is perfect. And they probably got the rich ones getting stylists. But you're so confident in yourself.

46:39Haley: Like I feel like Like you always look so good, but you don't play that game. And it's like a good financial lesson to all of us because it's about finding your own personal style versus trying to keep up with the Joneses, which then will make you broke. Yeah. I think that there is another perceived housewife curse. And that is there are some women that go on the show and they live beyond their means. Yeah, they spend money to look rich. Right. Right. And, and that is really, um, that is something that will, will bite you. Oh yeah. No. You don't do any peacocking. No. Yeah. Which is so cool. I'm like.

47:20That's very nineties coded, I think. Yeah. Like I think we, we, women didn't do it as well. I mean, like, I think when I, growing up in the nineties and being like a young adult in the city, like we, you know, I guess I certainly could have had like. fancier like designer things and and bags but you wouldn't like if you're young like that was for like older women like socialites like you wouldn't be like carrying a kelly have crazy bags no no even

47:51Haley: lee didn't either and like good jewelry like where did she did her wealth like show at all what she wore in her homes oh she had beautiful homes maybe that's where i am from it is and remember And that is very Swan-like, which is what all those women were called. She invested in travel and her homes. And that's, oh God, that's kind of what I do. There you go. Oh my God, I just realized that. Wow, okay, therapy. I'm just like - You're learning about yourself and you're spending habits on financial tea. Oh. Okay, girl. That's kind of, yeah. Anyway, yeah. So there you go. So I don't, whatever, peacock.

48:29I don't do that. And the style on Housewives is pretty trashy.

48:34Haley: You make it a lot better. I feel like I, you know, style, and this is from my mother-in-law, style is to me is, is the way you live your life. People live their lives with style and that cuts across all aspects of your life, fashion, home, travel, cultural style. Like wearing a good outfit is just an out, it's just fashion, but it's not necessarily style. Like, and there are some women on the show that have specific style, which is like, I don't think is stylish, but it's their style. So we celebrate them. Yes. Go girl. Okay. Now, Carol, I'm going to make you say something that you're not going to like because you don't want anyone to do this.

49:18Haley: You think that a lot of, that we should be socialists and money should go back to the communities. First of all, yeah, well, I'm saying like a choice between fascism and socialism, democratic socialism and what we're facing now with this fascist system that we're sort of – and it's not even capitalism anymore. I call it corporatism. I read about it. It's corporations are in charge now. There's no more free market. They're consolidating power. They're consolidating wealth in a few handful of companies. And the politicians are profiting. But what I was going to make you say at the end of the show, of course, was I just wanted you to say with me on the count of three, stay rich.

49:58Haley: But I didn't know if that was against your religion. But I'm glad that we went through all that together. Okay. I'm not saying, I'm just saying, listen, there are ethical billionaires, but there are not many. Okay. Okay. But hold my hand, wear your Laleen, look at the camera. Okay. Which camera are we looking at? And say, well, look at the middle one. And we're just going to say. God, you had three cameras. We got three. Yeah. Is that financially prudent? It is because this is an investment. I can't use that. I can't use it outside of it. Okay, what are we saying? We're saying stay rich. Okay.

50:30Haley: One, two, three. Stay rich. That was great.

50:42Haley: When you're building a company, you learn that trust is what closes deals. You may have the best product, but buyers won't sign without proof that your product is secure, especially if it has AI. Vanta gets you compliant fast with SOC 2, ISO 27001 and more, and keeps you secure with continuous monitoring. Hyperbound, a YC-backed startup, used Vanta to unlock the Fortune 100 in under a year. Snowfire got audit ready in a month and closed a multi-million dollar deal. Trust matters. Get started at Vanta.com.