The Finance Expert Who Was Scammed Out of $50K (w/ Charlotte Cowles)

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1:53Haley: That's 50 % off your first year at Monarch.com with code FINANCIALTEA. I think that we all can get lulled into a false sense of security about our own ability to dodge scams. Like you said that I was the first guest you'd had who'd been scammed. And I guarantee you that is not true. This is Financial Tea. What's up, Sippers? Welcome back to Financial Tea. This is a podcast where I teach you how to build wealth with a side of market drama, money scandals, and of course, financial pop culture. So today in the studio, we have the brilliant Charlotte Cowell. She's the writer and financial advice columnist at The Cut at New York Magazine.

2:36Haley: Charlotte, I am a truly religious reader of your column. So have you here is a major moment for me. But what makes your perspective, I feel like, so uniquely fascinating is that you are a literal personal finance expert. Like you have such great advice. You know so much about things and you fell for what I would call a brutally sophisticated financial scam and you were conned out of$50 ,000. So I want to get into your entire story. And then I also really want to tap into your expertise to solve some of our juicy listener dilemmas. we're going to do a little Dear Sugar Mama advice column. So Charlotte, welcome to the Financial Tea Podcast.

3:15Haley: Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. But first, let's get into the MDJ Market Report. What's up, zippers? I want to start this week's market report talking about diarrhea. Yes, the lettuce disease giving everyone the runs. That parasite we've got to dig into because it sort of perfectly explains why the stock market is absolutely unhinged in the short term in the craziest way. So here's the tea. A massive cyclospora outbreak, which that is the first time that I've said that word out loud. I've read it a lot. So let me know how I did. Yes, the parasite. Yes, the diarrhea one has been traced back to agricultural supplier, Taylor Farms.

3:57Haley: You might know Taylor Farms from their bagged salads. I feel like those are always a hit, you know, bag Thai salad, who doesn't want that? But they also supply lettuce to a lot of restaurants. So the CDC has now linked over 1600 confirmed diarrhea cases to shredded iceberg lettuce grown in central Mexico. Half of the country's salads have been secretly plotting against them, which I mean, what a relief for people who don't like salad. You know what I mean? You guys were right all along. And I will say that the corporate fallout was immediate, like Walmart yanked four back salad products off their shelves.

4:32Haley: Taco Bell full on broke up with Taylor Farms, like fully dropped them as a supplier. It was cold blooded. They cut menu items entirely. Like Taco Bell really did the most with this. I mean, this was a lettuce breakup arc that nobody asked for. And naturally, Wall Street had to get into it because they're emo AF and they have the emotional range of a toddler who like dropped their ice cream cone. And Walmart and Yum! Brands, which is Taco Bell's parent company, both took an immediate hit the second the diarrhea news freaking broke. But here is where it gets unhinged. Sweetgreen stock jumped almost 14%.

5:09Haley: Why? Because they don't even use iceberg lettuce and they got publicly cleared of any link to the outbreak. So that's it. That is the whole reason that their stock jumped 14%. Investors panic sold the taco and panic bought the kale like it was a group chat breakup and everyone had to pick a side. Translation, the stock market in the short term is just a giant emotionally unregulated popularity contest that reacts to headlines, vibes, and of course, the occasional diarrhea parasite. It is not thinking clearly. It is not doing math. It literally saw like lettuce bad, kale good, and ran with it like it was breaking news from the bachelor mansion.

5:51Haley: And let me ask you a question. Does a temporary lettuce recall fundamentally take the decades long value of a literal global retail empire like Walmart? No, obviously not. People aren't canceling Walmart. They're just avoiding the salad aisle for a minute. But you guys, this is exactly why you invest for the long term and you don't day trade. When you're playing the long game, you can just fully ignore this daily chaos. You just let the day traders spiral over the lettuce while you sit back, you stay diversified and you build actual generational wealth and by the way i have been marked safe from the diarrhea even though i have been eating sweet greens new wraps not sponsored every day they're so good i recommend trying them okay our second story is about olivia andrigo's new finance boyfriend yes our girl olivia she might have gone on hinge honestly because her new boyfriend is like fully a finance bro typically he works in private equity he's an associate his name is Julian Krunenbergs it's always weird when a last name is plural although I guess my last name is plural so forget that that one just seems more plural than mine but they've been spotted multiple times in Brooklyn they were went on a group trip to Iceland and this is a man who works at HG Capital after a stint in investment banking at you guessed it Goldman Sachs like he might have a Bloomberg terminal we don't know and this is just a really big departure almost shockingly so from Rodrigo's usual pattern of like dating within entertainment But I do find that it fits a broader celebrity dating trend where finance guys are dating these massive female stars because they offer stability and discretion that industry relationships often lack.

7:28Haley: Reese Witherspoon, I mean, she's been doing it to it with her investor boyfriend, Oliver Harmon. I mean, they're always on a yacht together, like being sexual. And I basically feel like rich, successful women are realizing that the best way to protect their piece isn't by dating another star. It's just by dating a guy who wants to quietly manage the portfolio and let you shine. And I really believe in that in my own love life too. But what's also amazing about these girls, it's like we think about dating rich finance guys as like, oh, we want to be trad wives. But what I love about Olivia and Reese is like, they're not looking for providers.

7:59Haley: They're really looking for cap table alignment. Studies consistently show that financial compatibility is one of the biggest predictors of a relationship survival. And I just think that when you're a multimillionaire, financial compatibility isn't about like agreeing on a grocery budget as much as it's like speaking the same financial language. And I just feel like it also completely removes the intimidation factor and the weird power dynamics that happen when one partner out earns the other by millions. These girls don't need the finance guy's money, but they do need a partner who isn't intimidated by theirs, which is honestly harder to find than you would think.

8:34Haley: So I think the conversation here isn't about traditional gender roles because these women are already moguls. Like I said, they're not trying to like be trad wives with these rich guys. I think the lesson is more about financial alignment and how much that matters and how it actually matters more than aesthetic alignment. If you seek a partner whose financial habits and risk tolerance and long-term goals balance out your own, that really is the ultimate relationship hedge. So I'm into this and I hope it lasts. Okay. And for our final story, I just want to mention, because I do make a lot of predictions on the show and I did tell you not to buy SpaceX and SpaceX shares have fallen below their$135 IPO price after peaking at a$2.64 trillion valuation, just three days into trading, which erased roughly$1 trillion in market value.

9:23Haley: And basically in English, what that means is the stock popped and now it dropped. And so if you bought it at the IPO, you were some like Elon freak who was like, I need to get it right when it comes out. You have now lost money, which is sad, I feel for you. But if you had listened to Mrs. Dow Jones on Financial Tea, you would know that we never buy IPOs. Like even if we are obsessed with a company, if it goes public, we wait. We buy it a few months later. So like today, July 30th, if you're like me, you love Jersey Mike's. Like I am a turkey provolone girl. Even with the diarrhea going around, I've been getting that sandwich with the lettuce and the tomatoes and the relish.

10:05Haley: It's so freaking good. And they're IPO-ing today. I love them, but I know it's going to do the same thing as SpaceX. It's going to pop and drop. So I'm not going to buy it now. I'm going to wait if I want to buy that stock. And this doesn't mean that all IPOs are bad. It just means that you need to be patient. Like if you look at history, if you need proof that waiting works, when Meta, which was like the most hyped IPO of its era, debuted on the New York Stock Exchange, it was at$38. And all the retail investors rushed in. But then after a few months, the hype died down and the stock crashed to$17.

10:41Haley: So the people who waited it out and bought it at $17, then made a fortune when the stock eventually climbed past$500. Okay, guys, I hope that you enjoy this episode with Charlotte Cowell. She is the finance writer for The Cut. I love her work, but also she has like a crazy personal finance story that you are going to freak out over. It is truly juicy financial tea. Oh, and don't forget to rate and subscribe. It really helps the show. So like, you know, stay rich.

11:12Haley: So let's start with our rapid fire questions. So first of all, what are your best and worst purchases of the week and how much were they? Oh my God. Best purchase of the week. I bought my four-year-old son a rocket ship. It has arrived. He doesn't know it's here yet. and it was$46.99. I love it. Which was kind of expensive for a toy. Amazon? No, it was like some random toy website. He's going to love it. It's going to be great. You are a freelance journalist at New York Magazine. I feel like there's a lot of question about working in media. So I wanted to ask, how much do you make per year doing that?

11:54Haley: Oh God. It varies a lot. I think any freelancer would tell you that. Um, it's usually, I mean, I've had like a bad year would be like probably about$80 ,000 and a good year would be like in, you know, in well into the six figures. Whoa. Okay. I'm going to say, I mean, by which I mean like over a hundred thousand dollars. Yeah. Um, okay. Love that. Yeah. Before we dive into the drama though, I do want to just kick things off with the basics. we've sort of talked a little bit already about that you work in New York Magazine, you write for The Cut, but for any of our sippers who are somehow living under a rock, can you introduce yourself a little bit and just tell us about your world and sort of what you do and how you do it?

12:42I have been a journalist for almost my whole career and I've worked in magazines, I've worked for newspapers and I am currently a freelancer. So I'm on contract with a couple of different places, mostly New York Magazine. And in 2016, they asked me to start writing about money for them. And at the time, I really had no background in it. I was like, I don't think I'm qualified to write about this. And they were like, we understand, but I think that your perspective... At that time, not a lot of people were writing about money. Most financial journalism was coming from people who, you know, it was like the Wall Street Journal.

13:23Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they wanted someone who could write about money from a layperson's perspective. So I approached it from that perspective. You know, when I was giving financial advice, I wasn't giving my own advice. And I still don't. I still don't even think of myself as an expert at all. Like, I don't have, you know, any true, I'm not a CFP. Like, I don't, I'm not an accountant. I have interviewed a lot of people who are CFPs and accountants and people like you who research and know this stuff really well. Whenever people would write in with a question or ask me a question, I would then go and find someone who knew how to answer it.

14:02And then I would sort of approach it from them. You're like a broker of knowledge. Yeah, exactly. You've got the expert,

14:07Haley: you make it palatable and then you share it. Yeah. But you're also good at getting people to give you really, really juicy info. Right. So along the way, I'm sure you realize this too. As soon as you start talking about money, I think it like opens the floodgates. It's like suddenly, you know, you're at a cocktail party and someone has like cornered you telling you all about like, you know, they're weird. Yeah. I mean, I love it. Me too. There are times when I'm like, I really just wanted to get a glass of wine and now I'm stuck here in the corner. But I think that it opened up this huge niche for me in terms of my career and also something that felt really intimate and, you know, exciting.

14:49but also like, I just feel really privileged that people share this stuff with me. So you're getting a little bit of wine.

14:55Haley: Like what is the juiciest story that someone's quartered you about? A lot of the time it has to do with like their relationship. It's always, because I do Dear Sugar Mama, which is like my financial advice call. And I'd say like 90 % of what I hear is just people, financial infidelity. Yeah. Hiding money, secret bank accounts, doing this. Totally, like, or, you know, secret credit card debt. or, you know, like they'll talk about just having a credit card that they just have never paid. You know, it's just like sitting there accruing interest. Like it's sort of crazy to me, but also hearing about all that stuff, everyone also always thinks they're the worst.

15:36Like without a doubt, they're always like, I'm so bad with money. Like I don't know anything. And most of those people are doing fine or doing a lot better than people who think they're doing great.

15:45Haley: It's so funny. So you think the people who think they're doing great are actually the ones who are doing the worst? Well, it's more that I think that there are a lot of people who are, who like fancy themselves, like, you know, good at trading. Oh, that's horrible. And those are always the people who are actually in a lot of trouble or don't have like traditional 401k or any sort of just like boring savings vehicles. They're gambling. They're not. Yeah. Yeah. So those are often the people that I'm always just like, good luck to you, sir. There is nothing quite like having pieces in your closet that you just love and know that you can count on for any damn occasion.

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17:36Haley: Okay, so I know that you have been making the rounds talking about this, but I did want to ask you about the scam. I have a friend of mine who is a social psychologist and he studies cybercrime. And I was talking to him before you came on and he was telling me something that really blew my mind, which is that scammers don't actually want their scams to be completely seamless. Like they purposefully leave just enough room for you to sort of feel foolish because they're actively weaponizing your shame to keep you silent. I bring that up because I just think by breaking that silence and talking about being scammed, especially as a personal finance writer, you did such a massive public service.

18:20Haley: And so let's just start from the beginning for my listeners who are coming to the story fresh. You're the first person we've had on the financial tea who was scammed. So walk us through what happened. Like how did they pull off a$50 ,000 heist from you in broad daylight? First of all, this was a couple of years ago. So some of some Some of this technology has changed. Okay. But at the time I received a call from Amazon, like it showed up on my phone as Amazon, like on the caller ID. And to my knowledge, they don't place calls anymore. But back then they would occasionally call people if there was fraudulent activity on their account.

19:00And so I received a call from someone who, you know, said she was from Amazon. You know, it's, she sounded professional. Sounded Amazon-y. Yeah. And she was like, there's been fraudulent activity on your account and I wanted to confirm these transactions. And I was like, I didn't make any of these transactions. You know, it was buying like a bunch of laptops and stuff, you know, and I was like, no. And, you know, your credit card company will do the same thing. Right. So it didn't seem, I mean, obviously it seemed. It seemed like a normal financial behavior of a company to do to call you and confirm a purchase.

19:31Haley: Right. And she was like, okay, I'm going to transfer you to someone who can help. and then, you know, like, I didn't see any of this information on my account. So I was like, yeah, we need to shut this down. And they said that another business account had been opened under my name. Whoa. And I was like, wow, I'm really getting fucked right now. Yeah. And I was like, this is annoying. And then I, they transferred me to someone who said he was with law enforcement and was working on these cases. Immediately they transferred you. So you pick up the phone. They're like, you've been buying laptops.

20:08Haley: And then they're like, wait, you got a detective on the line. It took longer than that. Like every step, it felt like a very standard sort of custom, you know, we have to get this information from you, blah, blah, blah. And then they were like, we are having so many issues with this specific scam that we were working with law enforcement on it. Would you be willing to talk to them about this? And I was like, that seems weird, but sure. It seemed odd, but I was like, sure. And then they transferred me to someone who knew my full name, knew my social security number, knew all this information about me and was like, we've actually been following your case for months because someone has been impersonating you and has committed all of these crimes under your name.

21:04And what followed was honestly almost too confusing. It took place over like five or six hours. And he eventually transferred me to someone else who he claimed was further up in law enforcement and said that they were investigating an international crime ring and my name had been used by this crime ring to launder money. And so there were all of these like open warrants for my arrest in various states. And I'm like Googling all this stuff. Like, are there warrants? Like what, what is going on? And not all arrest warrants are public in different states. Like it was, it was just very, the whole time I was like, I don't think this makes any sense, but also I don't know.

21:48And at one point he had me go to a specific page that had like a number to call for certain types of crimes. And he was like, I'm part of that division and hang up and I'm going to call you from that number. And so I did hang up and then he called me from that number. You know, that's what it showed up on my caller ID. I didn't know at the time that you can duplicate any, you can spoof any number so that it shows up on your caller ID. But I didn't know that at the time. He also, he told me that I was in danger and that more specifically my kid was in danger and he knew my kid's name and he knew my husband's name and he knew where we lived.

22:25And that in itself, yeah, that in itself just made me terrified. Yeah, it would have been terrified too. I was like, can I just come into your office? Maybe we can like work this out. And he was like, no, we have to do this today. He said that all of my assets were about to be frozen. And if I needed access to any of it, I needed to go withdraw the money from my bank account. So I did that. And then he told me that one of his colleagues would come to my house and would need to take that money to keep it secure. And at that point, I was like, you can't send someone to my house. Like, my kid lives here.

23:06Yeah. And he was like, they'll be there in 30 minutes. And so at that point, like, I would have given him my passport. Like, I would have done anything to get these people to just go away. Yeah. Like, I was terrified. They knew where I lived. They told me that someone was coming to my house. So that's what I did. Like they came to my house and I told them that they couldn't come inside because my son was home. And I went outside and gave them money and they drove away. What did they look like? It was a man in a car. And I was on the phone with one of the people that I'd been talking to during the day.

23:42And he told me not to talk to the man in the car and not to look at him. And at that point, I was like begging with him. I mean, it was awful. And it has also happened to many other people. And after I wrote about it, I've gotten many emails from people who've had this specific scam happen to them. And also, you know, hundreds if not thousands of emails from other people who've had other, you know, very personal scams inflicted on them.

24:17Haley: Wow. I think, first of all, I want to just talk about now that you're on the other side of this and you've had so much time to reflect, what are the red flags that you see in the process that you could tell us to look out for? Because I also think I have a lot of like younger listeners. And I think that it's important for us also to know how to teach our parents because they're so susceptible to. Yeah. Fun fact. There's actually no correlation between older people being more likely to get scammed. Oh, really? Yeah. Wow. You're just as likely to get scammed if you're younger as you are if you're older.

24:59You are just more susceptible to different types of scams. So we think of like dotty old people like falling for like. Oh, bleep, bloop. Yeah, exactly. Like, oh, my Internet's not working. And it's actually younger people are just as likely as older people to get scammed. Yeah. Usually there are also two different types of scams. There's opportunity-based scams, which are like, here's this sexy lady who wants to talk to me. So they're like romance scams or investment scams, things like that. And those appeal to a very different psychology than threat-based scams. So I fell for a threat-based scam because I was terrified and they told me that I was in danger.

25:48I think that we all can get lulled into a false sense of security about our own ability to dodge scams. Like you said that I was the first guest you'd had who'd been scammed. And I guarantee you that is not true. Like we all are targeted by scams every day. Some people fall for scams and they don't even know it. Like, you've probably bought something that was counterfeit at some point. For sure. And you had no idea. You might still not know. So people fall for little scams all the time. And this was obviously a very big scam. And I, when I figured it out, I just, I couldn't believe it. So you gave the guy the money.

26:29Yeah. You did look at him. And I got back inside and they had told me that I had, because my social security number had been compromised, that I needed to go to the social security office the next day. And that they were going to send me like a confirmation of my appointment time. And I was still on the phone with them. They wouldn't let me off the phone. Finally, they said that it was going to be at a time the next day when I had a meeting. And I was like, no, I told you that I had a meeting during that time and I can't go like this. And then they were like, we'll call you back tomorrow. And I was like, you said all this had to happen today.

27:08Yeah. And then it just, it started kind of like coming together in my brain.

27:15Haley: Yeah. I think also it was probably so confusing that they kept you on the phone the whole day because it made it so you didn't have space to think critically. No, it's a tactic. Yeah. I mean, they know what they're doing. Yeah. getting$50 ,000 that quickly, how do you do that? You can go to your bank if you have$50 ,000 in your savings account, which I do because I have to pay quarterly taxes. So I withhold, I save money and keep a lot of cash with me because I don't have, as I'm sure you also have to. You always have to, because when you have unstable income. Yeah, if you have it in your account, you can ask for it and then you have to give it to you.

27:50It's your money.

27:51Haley: And so you went, you're on the phone with the guy and you're at the bank? Yeah. Wow. Okay. That's so crazy. And then you like, how did you carry that all home? I mean, when it's in hundreds, it's just like a stack of bills. Oh my gosh. You could have gone to the strip club. Yeah, no, totally. I heard you mention on another show that we all sort of think we're way better at questioning authority than we actually are in practice. Like in our heads, we would all like demand a badge and wait till the next day to go into the office. And, you know, but when a federal agent is on the line, I feel like our brains really do panic.

28:27Haley: So when we are completely caught off guard, and obviously these scams are meant for us to feel like that, how do we actually fight that instinct? Like, do you have real tactical safeguards that we can use to question authority without letting fear take over? Like, what steps do you give people to stay safe now? Because it's dangerous. Yeah. I think the biggest thing and, you know, you see this stuff all the time. It's like, how to stay safe with scams? Like I get emails about this every day. And the biggest thing truly is just asking for help. Like just have someone, like it could be, could be any, it could be like the person in the next cubicle at work, just being like, does this look weird to you?

29:14or like I got a weird thing from American Express the other day that was like, your email address associated with your account has been changed. And I was like, I didn't do that. Yeah, you didn't do that. Like that's weird. And I looked at the email, it was very good. Like I was like, this is a really good phishing email. And then I called the number on the back of my credit card. Like they had all these, it was like, if you go online, you can check on this. And I was like, I'm not gonna click anything on this email. I'm just gonna call... American Express, independent. You know, you always call the number.

29:47Yeah, do your independent, like go direct to the source.

29:50Haley: Yeah. So like in your situation, what would have been in a perfect world how you would have handled that? I should have called my friend who was a lawyer. You know, I should have, no one will ever not let you talk to someone else. Like even when you are actually arrested, you have to make your phone call. Yeah, you have to make a phone call. So have someone - That's so true. Like you can say like, okay, let me hang up and I'm going to talk to my attorney. Yeah. That's so true. We have to remember that. And it's really hard because people who are really good at what they do will make you feel like you have to act immediately.

30:21Haley: But maybe it's like also knowing that if there is this sense of urgency to take financial action, then that is a red flag. It is. And every single email tells you that. And I knew that. Like, I knew all that. You knew all the things. It didn't matter. It didn't matter because when you're in that fight or flight syndrome, you're not like, hmm, let me examine the red flags. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I knew that they were all red flags, but I still was so scared. I was just like, this is a really big problem and I have to figure out how to fix it. Yeah, I totally understand. It also must have been hard, too, because it's like your son was really young.

30:54Haley: You were probably like, you know, like just in like a D is a little bit, you know, like it's like you were really emotional probably about that. Yeah. I mean, I also was busy. Like if someone interrupts you in the middle of your day, you're just like, OK, I got to get this done. Yeah. Yeah. That's so true. Okay, so let's skip tactical advice. What are like the archetypes that you talk about so that it's like, if you're listening to this, it will give us information on what to look out for? Because that's why I think it's so powerful about you sharing your story is like, you know, then it gives us all insight into what is nefarious.

31:27The thing about scams is they're constantly changing. They have to evolve in order to say, you know. So it's hard to, you know, like, if you really want to get obsessive, you can like go on Reddit and like read about scams because people post about them. But like, who has time to do that? Yeah. So it's hard to characterize the different types of scams. There are obviously the ones that are like, you know, you get texts every day that are like, hey, did you get my flowers or whatever?

31:56Haley: And you're just like, or the toll booth one was really big. Yeah. Yeah. Or like, or like you have a package and we need to, you need to pay the tariffs or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or, you know, like the random phishing email that I got that was like, we have a record that you just changed your email address associated with this account. So they come from all sides. What can we do to prevent it from happening, even though it is hard to prevent from happening? Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of things I do now that are really paranoid.

32:33Like I change my passwords regularly. I mean, these are all like fairly normal things, ranging from like normal to paranoid. I, you know, clear my cookies religiously. Like I'm very careful about, you know, every single time that you go to a new website and they're like, can we record this information from you? I'm always like, no, you can't. There are certain things that you can do to sort of just like protect your online presence. I'm not on social media or I have accounts, but I don't post anything. I have a service that scrubs my data from data brokers. And mostly because I know that my social security number has been so compromised, but there are certain things that you can do with filing your taxes, like make special accounts and passwords through the IRS website.

33:22Oh yeah, I know about this. With like a pin code and like all these things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I keep my credit frozen. Yeah, of course. That's one of the best things to do. And I have some software on my computer that's like, you know, it warns you if things are coming, if you get emails that seem fishy, things like that. And I never pick up my phone.

33:42Haley: Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. I was saying to you earlier that it's like, it's sort of like the Bell Burden thing with her sharing the story of strangers, that it's so powerful to share what happens to you financially, even if it's not what you wanted to have happened to you financially, because it makes people feel so much less alone and reflect on what they could be doing differently. Yeah. Well, I think also, so when I was reporting the story that I wrote, I interviewed a bunch of people who study scams. And one woman told me that they studied two groups of people. The whole group, both of them had been targeted by scammers.

34:22And they wanted to look at the difference between people who had lost money and people who somehow managed to disengage. And the number one factor in the people who managed to disengage was not age. It wasn't education level. It wasn't like, you know, how much they knew about money or not. It was simply if they had heard of a similar scam happening. Cool fall nights always make me want to entertain more.

34:49Haley: A few friends around the table, maybe a fire outside when the sun goes down. Before everyone comes over, I stop at Total Wine and More. Right now, there's a cranberry-flavored wine, a crisp apple wine, even a pumpkin spice cream that's perfect in coffee after dinner. And with the lowest prices, I can bring home a few different fall flavors for everyone to try. Find your favorite fall flavors at the lowest prices at Total Wine & More. Spirits are not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsibly. Must be 21. Shaq here. What's it like to buy a car from Carvana 100 % online and get it delivered to your door.

35:25Let me tell you. Your car is here, Mr. Shaq. Thank you, Mr. Carvana guy. Can't wait to take it for a spin. Only the best for you, Mr. Shaq. Hey, have you always been so big, tall, and handsome? Not always. I was 6 '10 once. Seven days to love it or return it, Mr. Shaq. Not that I would. You never do. No, I never do. So buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply. See our seven-day return policy at carvana.com.

35:50Haley: Before we open our listener mailbag, because I I can't have the financial advice columnist of the internet here without doing some Dear Sugar Mama. You've been reading the internet's deepest financial confessions for years now. So aside from your own story, which obviously is juicy, juicy, what is the absolute, like, is there one financial secret that hit your inbox that you'll never forget? I get a lot of people who

36:18are addicted to shopping, which I think everyone's a little addicted to shopping. Yeah. Like, how can you not be? I think that was probably, those are probably the biggest ones where people are like, I can't stop shopping. And then, and I'm like, how do you mean? And then I'm like, oh, you really can't. Yeah. You know, like they need help. It's, it's real addiction stuff. I think also like, you know, gambling stuff, like it's, it's sad. It's dark. Yeah. Like there's some really dark shit that happens to people with money. It's a compulsion. Yeah.

36:51Haley: And it's also scary because when you get into those holes with money, it's like, it's, you can hide it. Yeah. Like if you're drinking, if you're an alcoholic, everyone knows you're drunk. If you're addicted to food, you're getting really fat. If you're like a drug addict, like you're going to be acting weird. But it's like, if you're just in so much credit card debt, like you can just, you silently suffer, which makes it worse. Yeah, I know. Okay. So let's get into our Dear Sugar Mama though. So I haven't seen these yet. My producer put these together and I know they're related to things that you've covered in your column.

37:19Haley: So I'm excited, but we're getting a true expert opinion. So let's get into it. Not a real expert. Sorry, a true financial columnist opinion. Dear Sugar Mama, I am 35 working in a coastal city and barely skating by month to month. Meanwhile, my parents are living the absolute high life. I'm talking literally buying a yacht and bragging about their investments while I drown under the crushing weight of the student loans they pressured me to take out. I'm consumed by a toxic mix of jealousy and rage. Why are they funding an ultra luxury lifestyle instead of helping me build a baseline stable life?

37:57Haley: And how do I confront them about paying it forward without starting a family war? Ugh. I mean, the millennial versus boomer conflict is like, it will never be resolved, right? And - We want the money now. They'll never let us have it. The Great Well Transfer gets pushed back every day. We know it's coming, but when? Is it coming? Is it coming? I really feel for people in this position. I think that there are a lot of people

38:32who I graduated from college and the Great Recession hit the next year. So I'm an older millennial, in case you can't tell from my side part. And like throughout my 20s, we were, you know, all of my friends lost their jobs. Like I got lost my job. It was rough going.

38:52Haley: It was normal. Yeah, but it was normal. And so I think that when our parents' generation, the boomers, were coming up, they were dealing with a very different financial landscape. And I think that every generation always thinks the people who come after them have it easier. But I do think that millennials had a particularly difficult start. And And boomers are also on paper. They're the wealthiest generation in American history. So - Yeah, they control 50 % of all wealth in the US while millennials hold just around 10%. Yeah. Look, there are lots of boomers that are really supportive parents and good for them.

39:38Haley: 60 % of parents provide financial support to their adult children. Yeah. I personally think that the listener isn't asking for something crazy. Like her parents are actually the outliers statistically by withholding help to her while flaunting extreme wealth. Like I don't really understand it. Yeah, I don't understand it either. In terms of what I think she should do, I think it's really worth talking to your parents, no matter what your money situation is, about what their financial situation is. Oh, yeah. And I think you can frame it as like a family discussion, like just being like, hey, I'm trying to learn more about this.

40:16I'm trying to plan for my future. and I'm curious how you have planned for your future, you can make it like an open conversation. It doesn't like, I would not recommend to anyone that they go to their parents being like, hey, you guys seem to have it pretty good. How about you pass some of that my way? That's not gonna go well, no matter how open your parents are. But I do think the best way to start that conversation is to be transparent about your own struggles because the parents might not know that she's struggling too. Yeah, that's fair. I don't think just like asking for a blank check is a good idea, but just being like, hey, I'm having trouble with X and making it very specific.

41:01And sharing that you have a plan, like being like, this is what I'm working towards. I'm hoping to save X amount of money. And if you could help me with my student loans, then I would be able to do that. I think that having a really concrete plan, almost like a proposal, the way that you would go to a bank and being like, hey, I need a loan for X, Y, and Z. If you just go to the bank and you're like, give me money, they're not going to do that. Totally. You need to say your why. Yeah. You need to give your why and you need to show that you have a responsible plan. Like you don't want, you don't, you're asking basically for an investment from your parents.

41:38Not that they're going to get that money back, but they, I think most parents want to invest in their children. That's the whole point of, you know. Having a kid. Yeah. So like a little startup. Yeah. And just being like, this is how much, this is how meaningful it would be to me if you could

41:53Haley: help me with this. Love that. Our next question. Dear Sugar Mama, I'm a 34-year-old woman engaged to a 36-year-old man. And for the most part, I'm incredibly happy in my relationship, but he makes 250K while I make 130K. And as we look to combine finances, I am officially panicking. He treats our income like we're childless millionaires blowing cash extravagantly while I'm stressed about saving for our future family. His generosity is why I fell in love with him. But now that we're talking prenups, how do I protect myself from his reckless spending habits without ruining the wedding? Prenups are such a hot topic.

42:32I know. I first of all, when it comes to sharing a budget with a significant other. People can do it all kinds of ways, but when there's a pretty big discrepancy in incomes and also financial priorities, I think sometimes it works best to do an income proportional split. So they'll look at their whole budget and the different things that are all of their shared costs, housing, food, whatever else they're sharing. and then they contribute proportionally, proportionately to what they're making. So if he's making twice as much as she is, then he would pay twice as much towards their bills. So I think that's a good way for them to look at their shared costs.

43:21In terms of financial values, they're not aligned. Yeah, not aligned.

43:27Haley: Not aligned. And his lifestyle creep is threatening their actual network. Right, right. She's hitching her wagon to someone who could put her in the red. Yeah. I mean, I think this happens all the time. And there's a huge faction on the internet that's like, girl, run. Girl, run. But it's like, it's hard to find someone. Also, like, I mean, I think that actually people are attracted to their opposite. Yeah, like my parents are total opposites financially. And it like really works for them. Yeah, mine too. And even me and my husband, like he, I'm always the one who's like pumping the brakes. and I think that's a really positive thing, you know?

44:06Like that works really well for a lot of people. So I don't think it's something to be afraid of, but I do think that it's something that they really need to talk about.

44:18Haley: Yes, that's really the issue with like any financial relationship thing is it's more just like, ooh, like have you ever heard of this thing called communication? Yeah, yeah. I don't know, like crazy thought. Yeah, totally. Yeah. I recommend they're going to do a prenup, which sounds like would not be a bad idea, that they do it through mediation. Yes, instead of lawyers. Yeah. Where they're one person working for both sides. I sort of think a prenup through mediation needs to be more normalized because it's always the lawyers who fuck you over and make all the tension. Yes. Yeah. And I will say that till the cows come home.

44:55Like, I really think that mediation, if you're going to do a prenup, do it with a mediator. And you obviously, you still need to each hire your own respective lawyers, but you're probably going to wind up, the cost differential will probably come out in the wash because your lawyers aren't like going back and forth. Exactly. And legal fees are a lot more expensive than a mediator.

45:11Haley: And you're saying, okay, this is what we want versus like two, you don't want to be two sides against each other. You want to be like two people who are working together to make the contract happen. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. You got to communicate. Okay, dear sugar mama, I spend$450 a month on lasers, Botox, and facials just to keep up with the endless pressure of modern beauty standards. My boyfriend recently found out the price tag and completely spiraled about our financial future, leaving me so mortified that I'm now actively lying to him, telling him I'm at therapy when I'm actually getting injectables and praying he doesn't check my location.

45:45Haley: I'm not a dishonest person, but the shame has trapped me. How do I fix this financial infidelity? And what do I actually owe him in the way of transparency? And girls, by the way, this is why I will always have my own bank account because you will never catch me asking a man if I can get some shit squirted in my face, which is something I love to do. Couldn't be me. This is hard. I mean, well, I think it's hard too, because it's like all of the research shows that if you're attractive, you earn 20 % more than below average looking colleagues. And for women, that premium is 100 % dependent on grooming.

46:23Haley: So like makeup, skincare, but yeah, also injectables to a certain point. But in the same way, 43 % of adults admit to committing financial infidelity. I think it's none of his business. They're not married. Why does he know everything about her finances. And like, if it's her money, like, this is why you need your own bank account. I don't think that it needs to be from your shared pot, but I think that you should have money on the side that you can spend on whatever you want. And I don't really think that this is, I just don't like that he is so judgmental. You should both be contributing to your financial future, but that doesn't mean that you don't get money on the side to use on things that are fun or that make you feel good.

47:06I totally agree. Yeah. I don't think that he or anyone's partner needs to know exactly where all of your money is going. I don't think that that benefits anyone. But I also don't think that you should lie about it. If they are going to combine finances, they should have a conversation about how much they're spending per month, each of them respectively. On their wants. Just on anything. Like what is your cash flow? Discretionary. I think that if you are in a place where you're going to be legally bound to someone else, then you do need to have a conversation about like what you make, what you spend.

47:45For sure. And what you have. Of course. But I don't think she needs to, you know, I don't think she owes him like her receipts, you know? No, no, no, no. This is very much what I have grown to understand after interviewing and countless people about their money, everybody has a thing. It might be like video games or it might be beauty stuff or it might be, you know, I don't know, some sort of like weird financial kink. Like everybody has something that they're a little bit or a lot embarrassed about that they spend money on. And I think that it's okay for them to spend money on that thing without having to tell everyone.

48:25Haley: I agree. Charlotte, this was so awesome. I really loved chatting with you and thank you for your transparency on your story. I feel like we learned so much about scams, but also, you know, ourselves and the process. And I'm glad that you agree that like, you don't have to tell your boyfriend if you're getting Botox. It's nice to meet a real one. Thank you guys so much for listening. Be sure to like and subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts. We are on YouTube, too, if you like to see a video of your favorite diva. And see you next week for more Financial Tea. Stay rich.

49:24Haley: take it for a spin. Only the best for you, Mr. Shaq. Hey, have you always been so big, tall, and handsome? Not always. I was 6 '10 once. Seven days to love it or return it, Mr. Shaq. Not that I would. You never do. No, I never do. So buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply. See our seven-day return policy at Carvana.com.