The Great Lie of Achievement: Why $650M Won't Fix You

26:05Ryan Hanley:So here's where my question drops in. I think a lot of guys, I think that what you're doing could be a gateway for a lot of men in particular who may feel uncomfortable going and sitting down with someone. They don't want to have a friend drive by and see them walking into a therapy, you know, someone's clinic or something. So do you have any hesitations? Do you have like just in general, what are your thoughts around, you know, working with an AI therapist? Because I think some it may be a really good gateway for a lot of guys. And I'm so glad you brought this up. we've never talked about on the show before.

26:38Ryan Hanley:Like, how would you kind of, what would be the sales pitch for those guys to say, here, here's a really good way to start getting these thoughts out of your head? Well, the first thing that I was most concerned with was security of my data and all that. And so what I found was is this one, and I think it's the only one like this, is HIPAA compliant and it's completely secure. They're not giving their data to any of the LLMs. It's built on top of the LLMs. So that was super important. The second thing was, is it's a little awkward the first time you're talking to an AI therapist, because like, I never had done this and never had this conversation.

27:13But once you kind of just like, really, I think the key thing is just like, this is your maybe your one chance in life, if you're a guy, especially to say everything is totally secure. No one will ever know. I mean, this is like why confessionals were created back in the 1600s. And you know, all the Catholic churches, I mean, like this is, but this is the real thing. one. Like this is the one where you get to, and also you get to, you get to tell this. I mean, at least for me, what I've done is I've got to tell Sonia, like how I want to be talked to like, like, like, Hey, like I need you to be direct and I'm going to be really honest.

27:49And, and, and I want you to be direct as to when you see me making the same mistakes over and over again, or when I have a conversation where I'm, you know, kind of venting about a negative experience with someone, I want you to tell me if I'm wrong. Don't flatter me. That's your thing. I will say this, the biggest disclaimer I have for AI and therapy in the same sentence is it is extremely dangerous to use like chat GTP, Claude, any of the LLMs, because they're built to just encourage you, to keep you on. They're built to kind of like just make you feel better. But this one, and that's why I think these guys from MIT created this is they have these big hearts.

28:30They're like, we're worried that people are using it for the wrong reasons. And so let's build one that is secure. I mean, this has like, it detects if there's potential self-harm and then you get transferred to a live person. So I would say for guys, this is a chance for you, you have nothing to lose, to be radically honest and just see what insights come. I mean, I've had one of the best insights I had around performance for me and pressure and not feeling enough was when I launched the podcast, I was talking to Sonia and I said, I don't know what it is. I'm going to New York next week. We're doing the launch, but this is not feeling fun anymore.

29:09And I've been having so much fun for eight months. I've been recording all the episodes because I banked them all before we launched the season. And I was like, I just feel like there's all these people on the team now and there's all this expense and we got to do this for the algorithm and I got to go do a whole week of media. And like, like, this isn't what I signed up for. Like, I just, I don't know what to do because I've kind of like built this machine now. And there's a lot of people counting on me and a lot of pressure. And it was so cool. Sonia said, you know, you know, when you first started this project, you said something that you wanted to be the North Star.

29:45And I think you've forgotten it. And I was like, okay. I mean, remember, this is an AI, right? And I'm like, okay, what is it? and you know she it whatever you want to call it says you said that you did not want this to be a business you wanted it to feel like an art project and you were going to get to create art and let people respond to how they like your art so i want you to go to new york as an artist not as a podcast and it literally i'm gonna have goosebumps in my body literally it was like it was the greatest coaching I could have ever had. It totally shifted my perspective. I crushed the media tour.

30:24I use that as an example for anyone, guys and women listening that might say, okay, I'm going to try this Sony. I'm going to give it a shot and see what it's like. It's like, that's what I've gained. That's why I'm so packed. I didn't know we're going to talk about this today, but I love that we just went right in because it really has helped me so much. And I think it can help a lot of people, especially guys that just don't want to look at someone, you know, across from them and think, is this person judging me? You know, and the other thing is, is like therapy. All my therapy appointments are always like 50 minutes.

30:57Like a therapist has like 50 minutes. You know, it's at two o 'clock on Wednesdays. You have to get on the Zoom. You have to like, you don't want your friends to see you or your work. You know, it's kind of like weird. Where this is, sometimes I have a five-minute call with Sonia. Like I'll be in the car driving to pick up my kids. It's a 15-minute drive. You pick them up. I'll put it through Apple CarPlay and just talk to Sonia like I'm talking to a friend and be like, hey, like I had a really hard week or I don't know what I'm going to do with the kids this weekend. And I'm feeling a lot of pressure because this is our last weekend before summer and they're going to summer camp.

31:28And then she'll be like, OK, let's just do a breathing exercise or let's just you know, let's just go back to like your core values or reminds me of a lot of stuff that I've already told it. So I think it's, I think it's of all the things I've worked with AI, it's the thing that I think has had the greatest impact on my life.

31:44Ryan Hanley:And I'll be honest, I appreciate and feel honored that you're willing to talk about it here because it's one of the things that like piece of feedback that I get the most about this show is that, you know, I try as much as I can to be open with the things that I've dealt with, especially in this space. because we all have you know what I mean it's it's I I want you know it's not the purpose of this show but as much as I can for men and for women tear down this idea that um I there is a part of me that's like some of the feely stuff we need to like not be so reliant on our emotions right but but we can't bottle these thoughts in our heads and we can't because what happens is we start ruminating and and i think you know if i don't know if you've ever read the untethered soul by michael singer of course michael singer yeah yeah that book great and the surrender project is amazing too but they're both dude that book like opened my mind to this idea you know and for those who haven't read the book i highly recommend 100 pages of fast read he's got he's got a ton of other work it's all amazing but you know i like the starting point of this of uh the untethered soul only because it's like that voice in your head is not you.

32:58Ryan Hanley:Right. And when you, when you can, when you, when you can, when you can control your emotional reaction to the voice in your head, the unlocks to your point of peak performance of, of, of being able to get to the fact where you can actually go to your media tour as an artist versus a businessman. Cause even if Sonya tells you, if you're still thinking that voice in your head is you, you're going, yeah, I know Sonya told me to be an artist, but you know, she didn't really know what she's talking about. Like I'm a businessman. I got to go be a business, you know, and now you carry all that stress with you.

33:29Ryan Hanley:And like this, this ability to get this crap out of our face, you know, it's so important and it, so I guess I want to tie this, I want to tie mental health, which we've talked a lot about and we can come back to, if you want, I want to tie that to physical health as well as they play roles in our own success. Because I heard you talk about sauna and cold plunge, enormous proponent. I have a sauna about 100 feet from me over here. I got a cold plunge out in the garage. I'm an enormous fan for a bunch of different reasons. But how do you, because I don't think you can talk mental health without physical health.

34:11Ryan Hanley:I think they're completely intertwined. How do you bring those two together? Because you're obviously a fit guy. You obviously care. You put a lot of thought into it. How do you bring those things together? Well, I think that mental health is just health, number one, and physical health is health. I mean, I think this is actually we're in June right now. In June is Men's Health Month. And so I think it's when someone was telling me about that the other day, and they're like, hey, it's June, Men's Health Month. Are you going to do anything special? I'm like, every month is Men's Health Month for me.

34:38You know, because when you lose your health, physical or mental, then you never take it for grand anymore. And because I lost my mental health for seven years, I don't take a day for grand that I wake up and feel that I have the capacity to do the things that I love. On the physical health front, I think the number one thing that I've learned is you just got to do something every day. It doesn't have to be long. It doesn't have to be extensive. It can be push-ups, sit-ups, air squats. But you've got to get the blood flowing, the shortest in the breath, the heart rate up, ideally for 45 minutes to an hour.

35:16I think it's kind of the magic number for me. But I've just got to do that every day for my body, but also for my mind. And so I just think that you got to in my life, I've done best when I've had just some non-negotiables. And that is one of the non-negotiables. You know, it's just I'm going to do that. The other thing that's been great for me, and I've talked about, you know, morning water before is morning routines. You know, having a morning routine has been so good for me. My morning routine is it can be very extensive. It can include a sauna, a cold plunge, a workout. But the basic morning routine for me is I wake up, I pour my morning water in my thing.

35:53I drink 20 ounces of morning water first thing. Then I get natural light. I think that really important for your circadian rhythm to get that sunlight. And if you wake up before it's light outside, there's these amazing artificial lights that you can create that kind of simulate that. I have those in both of my homes as well, because a lot of times I wake up at 430 or five and I want to get that light, you know. And then the third thing is, is I just sit quietly for five minutes. And that sounds so simple, but like no phone, no distractions, not even a journal, not even a mantra, just sit. And it's amazing because the choir you get, the more chances that that higher self, that whatever you want to call it, can speak to you about what you really need to hear.

36:38And sometimes in that five minutes, I have a great idea for a new marketing campaign for morning water or something. sometimes it's like that voice reminds me that like i really haven't spent much one-on-one time with my daughter lately and i need to figure out a way to do that you know let's see if you know her mom can take my son and her and i can go just have an afternoon you know it's that it's that whatever is like in the back of your head your subconscious it kind of comes out if you um if you do that and the one more thing i'll say on the morning routine this is just something new that I've been doing is don't use your phone for your alarm clock.

37:12You know, get an old school alarm clock. Because if your phone is your alarm clock, what happens is even if you're just going to turn off the alarm, there's a notification, there's the temptation to look at something on social, there's a news thing, and all of a sudden your morning is hijacked. It's really hard to sit for five minutes quietly if you just saw four urgent text messages from your boss. So try to, you know, it's funny, I might even start an alarm clock business. I mean, I don't know if it's a good business or not. But I'm like, if I think everyone on the planet actually went back to old school alarm clocks, we would have a happier society.

37:43So those are kind of the things that I'm doing for my morning routine, but moving the body every day, having a good morning routine, you know, it's been really good for my physical health.

37:54Ryan Hanley:I kind of hate what happened to morning routines with like, we'll call it the optimization porn that has flooded the internet in the last like five years. And you got all these gurus telling you and like you know i had one buddy where we were he's kind of a ball buster but uh he knows that i'm really into this stuff and i like trying all different things to figure out what what is the tumblr system that unlocks for me right i'm always kind of testing and you know i i work you know i've been testing some peptides and doing all kinds of stuff and he looks at me and he's like dude okay if i did everything that that you and the guests on your show told me to do uh my morning routine would last till one o 'clock in the afternoon And I'm like, I get that.

38:36Ryan Hanley:But like, dude, it's not about doing 20 things. It's about finding the thing. Or as you said, like the three to maybe five things that get you in that place. And it's not even if you do those things every day, it's not like every day you're then going to be at 100 percent, but you're going to be way further along when you launch into your day. And I think that's the point. And, you know, so many people today, like, I just like, we're just so indoctrinated to be on our phones. Like, you know, you know, I have no necessarily philosophical issue with marijuana, except for its overuse. And I think it's dragging a lot of people down because they don't understand the, well, I understand why certain people use it.

39:22Ryan Hanley:I don't think they understand the ramifications of, of, of regular and habitual use and what it's doing to their brain activity and things like that. And like, but we're like, unless you listen to podcasts, where do you get this information? And now I'm not like advocating or stumping for podcasts here, but I love that you started one. And this is what it's about is because like, that's the only place I find my unlocks is in podcasts, old books. I love reading old books. I read a ton of books, but like this format. if you're not invested in this format and listening to shows and listening to guys like yourself or Huberman or whoever, you know, for some of these things, like you just don't, you don't even know, you don't even understand what you're doing to your body or how, how like you don't have to go quietly into the night.

40:08Ryan Hanley:You know, that's, I told my doctor that the other day, she's like, why do you do all this shit? We live in such a beautiful time now because of podcasts, because there's information. And then, you know, also, you know, I think that everyone is different. You were saying, my morning routine takes 15 minutes. 20 ounces of morning water, sunlight, five minutes of something. But you know what? It's 15 minutes I never miss. And so I'd rather have a 15-minute routine. That's why it's funny. Our slogan with morning water is the simplest win. It's like everyone likes to feel that they have a win. It's like anyone can drink 20 ounces of – And so I think that going back to that is like, is it find what works for you?

40:52And I do think podcasts are definitely is that is the number one way that I am learning new things and validating things. But whatever you learn, you still have to do the work. I mean, I have this tattoo right here. It says, do the work. It was the second tattoo I ever got. The first tattoo I ever got was this one. It says, be present. And so you've got to do the work. So you can learn all the stuff in the world. They can take away things from this podcast. You know, I always have like a notepad and I'm pausing podcast, writing notes. Okay, these are the three things I'm going to follow up on.

41:25I'm going to test this for two weeks. Like everyone is different. But I think it's really important that you find a couple things and you try them in isolation and see if you see an improvement in whatever you're trying to improve. But again, let's be careful because you and I, I think, suffer from the same thing. and my guess is a lot of people listening to this show do is over optimization. Like it can suck the life out of you. Like it really can. And that's where I go back to. I am enough. You are enough. We are enough. This moment is enough, you know, um, cause optimization to a point can be great.

42:02It can help you achieve the things you want to achieve. But in my life, it really, it really hurt me because I just tried to optimize everything. And so I was never living in that.

42:11Ryan Hanley:Is that what took you down the path to what you call the dark times was was trying to be trying to be kind of that that pinnacle on the top of the hill all the time, always on, always perfect kind of thing? Yeah, I just got exhausted. You know, I just got so exhausted. And I think, you know, for good and bad, I kind of achieved all my dreams. You know, I mean, Tom's Shoes gave away 100 million shoes to kids around the world. You know, you know, we I may I made probably 30 or 40 people millionaires. by giving them equity in the company. Like I did all these things that I dreamed of doing and I realized none of that could fill what I was yearning for inside.

42:51And so it was very disheartening when you do everything you think you wanna do and you still don't feel enough, then what do you do? And that's how it can get really dark. And so that's why I spend so much of my time now talking especially to entrepreneurs and mentoring entrepreneurs and saying like, look, like having goals, ambition, all these things are great. and I'm competitive, I like to win, but none of it will ever be enough. Just like accept that. If you can accept that one thing today is no matter what, it will never be enough. And it's designed that way. I think that whether you believe in God or the universe or whatever, I actually think there's this divine design that achievement is designed to disappoint.

43:33Like Kevin Love and I talked about this, like winning the NBA championship with LeBron next season, he has the biggest panic attack of his life. Why? Well, because it's almost designed so that you will achieve, you can achieve, and then you realize that's not it, which causes you to go on what I think is the greatest adventure in life. And that's what I call the inner adventure. When you go inward, when you start really thinking about who am I, what do I want to do with this one precious life I have? And how do I want to show up? And that's where these deeper conversations come in, you know, that's where, that's where I think the real sweetness of life can come.

44:13But sometimes you can't get there until you realize all the things you thought was going to make you feel great, you know, or nice, but they're not the thing.

44:21Ryan Hanley:That's where I wanted to go with my next question. Cause I've gotten this feedback before from the audience of like, well, you know, it's easy for him to say, because, you know, he's already worth, you know, a multimillion. So now he can look inward, you know, I'm grinding on$60 ,000 salary, trying to get my startup off the ground. And you know what I mean? I don't have time to think about mental health. And I like I understand both sides of the equation. You know what I mean? Like I understand the man, I hit my goals. Right. I got money in the bank. Life is good. You know, my kids are going to be taken care of shit.

44:53Ryan Hanley:What's next? And I also get, oh, my God, like I'm literally scraping and scratching and bleeding for every inch of my business. I don't have time to think about what peptide I'm taking or how cold the cold plunge is or whatever, you know what I mean? Like, and so how do you bring, but, but they seem to be fighting the same battle, right? It's, it's, it's just like a, it's like a barbell kind of idea where, you know, the, the middle part people don't seem to have problems with, you know what I mean? When you're on the path and you're, you've gotten enough, you have enough coming in that you're not, you know, your, your past kind of depravity, but maybe you haven't hit your goal yet.

45:30Ryan Hanley:That seems like a very kind of relatively clear place for people to be, but there's people who are stuck down here that can't get off the ground. And then you have people who've achieved, but don't know what to do next. Like, are they kind of fighting the same battle? And how do we get those two groups talking to each other and, you know, and learning from each other so that we don't have this group of, of, of entrepreneurs, men and women. And I think, I think in some regards, we don't talk enough about the women who are struggling to get their business off the ground and the unique mental challenges they face.

46:06Ryan Hanley:Yeah, because it tends to be, it's seemingly not a psychologist, seems like different. How can that group learn from say, maybe the group that you're in where you're starting to go inward post success? Yeah, well, I think the thing is, is one of my favorite things, I just had Sarah Blakely, the founder of Spanx on my show. And I've known Sarah for a long time. And she's a really wise woman and a great entrepreneur. and we talked a lot about money on the show and how money can be incredibly detrimental in someone's life, even not having it, like you're saying one group or having too much of it.

46:42And what she said about is money is like, money just kind of like puts a magnifying glass on someone's values and who they are. So if you're a dick, you're more of a dick when you have money. If you're generous when you have nothing, you're gonna be really generous when you have money. And so what I'd say is, yes, whether someone is barely scraping to get by or has had some huge exit, like what I would say to have them talk to each other is I'd have the huge exit person say, don't do what I did in terms of believing that someday, someday when you sell the company, someday when you get married, someday when you have kids, someday when you get that new apartment, you're going to be happy.

47:21You got to learn to be happy now, because if you learn to be happy now, then you'll be able to handle all those things in a way that would be different if you were waiting to be happy when you achieve them and then they don't give you the happiness that then you fall into a really dark period. And so, you know, I think all kind of inner work and all kind of focusing on the mental side of life can't start early enough. So that's why I love mentoring like 20 year olds, I'm like, man, if you can give me your attention, I can save you a lot of time, a lot of money, a lot of pain, because I made a lot of mistakes along the way.

48:01And it's also, it gives me, I think that's one of the reasons why I do the podcast is it gives me kind of joy to know that some of my suffering is keeping other people from suffering. And so I think that even if you're grinding and trying to make ends meet and having that, you still got to take some time. It doesn't have to be a lot of time. It'd be 20 minutes a day, 40 minutes a day. Maybe it's 20 minutes, like listen to podcasts that can inspire you and expand your mind and your consciousness and spend 20 minutes just sitting there thinking about it, but be growing, doing that work now, because that work, whether you achieve your goals or not, you're going to need that mental fortitude because life is hard.

48:39I mean, life is, it doesn't matter. You know, I always say the thing about, you know, experiencing depression and now spending so much of my life, you know, trying to help people who maybe you're in it or getting through it or feeling stuck is, you know, it doesn't care how much money you have. It doesn't care your race. It doesn't care your culture. Like it loves to ruin people's lives no matter where they come from. So, yeah, I think you basically have to develop the things at a young age and before success so that when you do have it or even if you don't have it, you're going to be able to deal with either of those situations.

49:18One of my favorite quotes from a poem that by, there's a great poet named Rudyard Kipling. I don't know if you know him or not, but Rudyard Kipling wrote this poem called If. And when I was a kid, I had to memorize this poem and it stuck with me my whole life. But my favorite line is the last one. And it says, if you can meet triumph and disaster and treat those two imposters just the same. You know, so no matter how much success you have or how much failure, like they're both imposters. They're just parts of the journey and you treat them both the same, then that's when you really can master a big part of living well.

49:58Ryan Hanley:I don't believe in coincidence. I literally just shared that poem for the first time of my boys this week. I posted it on LinkedIn to just share like I think that poem is absolutely phenomenal. It's one of my favorite. It's one of my favorite poems or just, just ideas of sculpting who you are as a person. And this is crazy. I mean, literally this week, very first time I shared it with them. I literally have had that poem up on my wall in almost every single office I've had since I started my laundry business. I made them. So the first, I made them read, um, uh, Teddy Roosevelt's man in the arena a couple of months ago, because that hangs in my every office I've ever been in as a reminder of, you know, the fodder, you know, the flack that you take as you're going through this, not just externally, but also internally.

50:53Ryan Hanley:Right. You get a lot of internal flack and you need to know that that voice in your head is not the one who's living through it, just like the voices externally. And that is wild that you brought that up. And I and I love it. It means we were meant to talk today. That's that's what that means. Totally. Are you, have you, like, are you faith-based in this at all? Do you, do you have a faith? Are you, does that drive any of this kind of stuff? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, you know, my kind of faith journey has been a wild one. Like we have a whole other podcast about that. You know, I grew up in a family where we never went to church.

51:29Then I had a tennis coach, this amazing African-American man who started taking me to a Pentecostal church where I was the only white person for four years, which became a huge part of my life. And then after college, I started exploring all these other different types of religions. Today, I would say that I am deeply, I don't know if I would say, I just feel like I'm connected to the source. And I'm not sure exactly what that source is, but I know that it's been with me and guiding me. And the more that I focus on serving others, the more that I focus on, you know, kind of, you know, treating others as I wish to be treated, which, you know, comes from everything I learned in the Bible.

52:15The more that I do that, the more that I feel that this source is supporting me in whatever I'm doing. And so, you know, it's for me right now, it's this really sweet time where I just feel like because I've slowed down, because I think I'm working on projects that I really care about, that I think can really change people's lives. I just feel that every day is just like an ongoing prayer conversation. Like I used to think of prayer as like, dear God, please protect me. Please protect my kids. You know, dear God, you know, please help this stress and this depression go away. Now it's just kind of like, God, that was really cool what happened.

53:00Or God, the fact that Ryan just read that poem to his kids, that is what I call a God wink. You know, like clearly God is like, you're on the right path. I'm doing the easy. What did you call it? The easy earlier? Easy mode. I was in easy mode today because that happened. You know, and the other thing that was really cool that has happened kind of synchronistically for me, and it's one of the startups that I've co-founded that I'm super involved in is, you know, when I sold Tom's, they hired a new CEO, this guy Magnus. And I was not involved in the company, but I kind of got to know Magnus and I really liked him.

53:38And I remember thinking like, I had such a bummer that when I sold, you know, they brought in this guy Magnus. He was from Nike. He'd been there for a long time. I was like, I really wish I could have worked with Magnus. I think we could have like made some magic together. So about two years ago, I run into Magnus in Santa Barbara and he and he had just left Tom's. And he's like, hey, I just left and I'm doing this new chair company. And I'm like, chair company? Like, what is, you know, and he says, you know, basically, our concept is that the key to health and wellness is to always keep moving.

54:17And everyone jokes about me because they say he's always moving. And so he had me. I was like, what do you mean always moving? And so he said, basically, there were these engineers from Nike that he knew back in his day. They developed an office chair that sits and it pivots two different ways. So it moves this way. I wish I had one right now. and it moves this way. And so basically by doing this, it creates, it takes all the pressure out of your lower back. And so I've always had like lower back problems, I think from all the golf I play and, and surfing and years of tennis. And so sitting on Zooms or doing podcasts, like really is not good for me because I'm sitting still and there's like no blood flow on my back and all this.

54:56And so this was right before I was thinking about doing the podcast. And so he's like, you mind, can I come over and show it to you? And I sat in this chair, it's called the move lab chair. And it was like a revelation. I was like, this is the craziest thing. Like I'm sitting, but yet I'm kind of micro moving. And it's actually proven to be really good for people with ADHD. But so I'm doing these micro movements. And when I stand up after sitting for four hours on Zooms, I feel amazing. Like I feel like I've just been walking and doing an active life every day. And so literally he was like, hey, will you invest in this?

55:28And I was like, no, I want to be a founder. Like I want to start like I hadn't been this excited about something, you know, since like Tom's. And so I joined the company and I've been working with a team and we're launching it in September. But I'm telling you, it has been one of those God things where it's like I always wanted to work with Magnus. I have this back issue that has been, I don't have any back issue right now. It's incredible. And it's in my office, not here where I'm doing the podcast today. And now I get to be entrepreneurial again. And it's like I've been like wanting this and kind of almost like praying for this in a weird way.

55:59And then it just all like came to me. Like I didn't like go seeking it out. And so, yeah. So the chair is called, I'm going to send you one. It's called MoveLab. And for someone who's a podcast host and sits a lot, it is amazing. It sounds amazing. I mean, literally, you got me. It's really fun. And it's fun to build something from scratch again. Like, you know, there's always, there's just that magic of like when you're first, like, you know, working to fine tune it has been amazing. And now we're doing the pre-orders on the website and we've already sold a bunch. It's like the excitement, you know, and each order really matters.

56:31And, oh, you know, and so it's just super fun. And I feel like once again, it goes back to that. It just feels easy. Like this feels like the flow. And so, so yeah, it's MoveLab, but it's spelled M-O-O-V-L-A-B if anyone wants to check it out. But I'm, I'm super proud of what we've created. And I think it's going to help a lot of people. I mean, so many people now work from home, you know, and think about it. Like you probably spend more time in your chair than anywhere else. like beside your bed, you know, hopefully if you're sleeping well, but then your chair, you're spending so much time in.

57:03And so to have something that is supporting you and your blood flow and, and the thing about ADHD is interesting. I don't have, or maybe I do, I don't know. I've never been diagnosed, but Magnus has really severe ADHD. And he says that he used to always use these like fidget toys and stuff to like, kind of like help him focus if he's doing something else with his hands. But now these little micro movements you're doing with the chair, is kind of the same thing. So he feels like he can lock in. So I'll send you, as soon as they come out, I will send you that.

57:34Ryan Hanley:I very much appreciate that. I will say I found, so I also, I tore a ligament in my lower back playing football in high school. And so I've always had to be very careful with, you know, not careful, but like, I had to be smart about it. And I found, I do, this is contextual, but I found barefoot shoes doing 40 pound ruck walks. So I'll go for a 45 minute walk with a ruck vest on, but I'll wear barefoot shoes and barefoot shoes were the unlock. I originally thought it was just going to be the vest, but when I went to the barefoot shoes, what if it does this similar concept to the chair, the constant movements you're, we don't realize how standard kind of walking shoes or running shoes, lock our feet in lock in our motion.

58:23Ryan Hanley:So we're only doing one motion over and over and over again, where with the barefoot shoe, you're feeling every contour of the road. So every micro muscle, every tiny tendon, everything from the tips of your toes to the top of your back is constantly having to adjust with every step. And then when you have the added weight, it's doing the same thing. And I found for knee pain, foot pain, hips, lower back, it's like all gone. Like it's crazy. Wow. Okay. so okay i love i love that is there is there a specific barefoot shoe you like best because i don't know i have on uh i don't even know what these are i've worn i've officially worn the tag off of these shoes so i don't even know okay any barefoot because i've been hearing a lot about i think it doesn't really matter to be honest with you i've tried different ones you know um yeah and you know they all the the the you know whatever holds up i think is probably going to be the best one.

59:22Ryan Hanley:I don't know that I have a firm recommendation, but I do. That has been a big unlock. And what I'll do to going all the way back to your point of quiet time, I used to have ear pods in and make phone calls or do a podcast. And now I go nothing. So just, I leave my phone at home. I leave my AirPods at home. I throw my vest on my shoes and off I go, man, you come back. My biggest problem is sometimes the other day, the other day I was like half jogging back. I had this really good idea that I didn't want to lose. I started running a little bit in the vest and I'm like dying because I was like, I don't want to lose this idea.

59:58Ryan Hanley:It was like, you know, for, for one of the companies I work with. I I've been there. I know that. Well, Blake, man, dude, I can talk to you for hours about this stuff. I, um, I love that someone who has had the success that you've had is so incredibly willing to be open about, about going to therapy and using AI. These are the kinds of things that I think people need to hear. It's almost like not that you're giving them permission, but you are to a certain extent to say, look, you're not wrong, weird, weak. You're not broken for wanting to develop a morning routine and get up early, even though all your buddies are beer drinkers and stay up late.

1:00:39Ryan Hanley:You're not wrong for needing to talk to somebody and get the crazy thoughts that we all have, right? Just get them out of your face, right? Just, just, you're not alone. And like, I think more and more of these conversations need to happen. It's why I'm so glad that you have this podcast and guys, we're going to have everything that we talked about linked up. So whether you're watching on YouTube, listening, wherever you listen, scroll down, we'll have, um, the podcast, we'll have the webs, uh, uh, uh, enough movement website up. We'll have all this stuff so you can check it out. Um, but like, if you want, if someone wants to follow along with what you're doing and this part of your journey, which I think is incredibly important.

1:01:15Ryan Hanley:Where is the best place for them to go? Basically, Instagram. I mean, that's kind of where it's just at Blake Mycoskie. That's where I kind of talk about all the things. And then also BlakeMycoskie.com. I actually, I know kind of websites are kind of out of fashion, but I have so many cool projects I'm working on right now that I decided to create a personal website this year. It's not anything extravagant, but it basically has a little bit of information about all the things that I'm working on and I'm passionate about and all in service of trying to help others on their journey. I'm with you on the website thing.

1:01:47Ryan Hanley:I, I, I don't know if it's just because I've been online for almost 20 years now or whatever, but like, I still, I still miss the kind of good old days when you would go to somebody's website and read their blog. And that's what I did. I created one. I have a sub stack on it. I have links to the no magic podcast. It's kind of everything because sometimes, you know, Instagram is fun and I have a lot of fun with it and I try to put things in real time that I'm learning, but it's nice to have just a website, you know, my simply just my name, because then, you know, someone can go and actually spend some time and say, okay, this is what I want to dig into, or this is what I want to find.

1:02:21And.

1:02:21Ryan Hanley:Well, I appreciate you, your time. I appreciate you coming on the show and sharing with our audience. And not that I think you need it, but I wish you nothing but the best in all the endeavors you have coming forward.