The Man Who Died Twice, Then Climbed Everest | Sean Swarner

0:00Sean Swarner:There were years of my life where I was terrified to close my eyes at night because I didn't know if I was going to wake up the next day. That was because of two terminal cancers. I was given three months to live the first one, 14 days to live the second one. I was reading my last rites. The man of the cloth came in, rosary in one hand, Bible in the other one, standing at the end of the bed, started reading me my last rites as a 16, 17-year-old. I developed a completely different perspective on success, on happiness, on fulfillment than anyone else. That's changed my entire perspective on what I've been able to accomplish.

0:42Ryan Hanley:I appreciate you taking the time to come on the show. You have an incredible story. and I don't normally like to start with origin stories, but I think yours is so incredibly unique and powerful that it would be remiss if we didn't start there. So as much as you're willing or able, I'd love for you to kind of level set your methodology and I want to get to some of the stuff that you're doing today, but I think if we don't understand your origin story, it'll make a lot more sense.

1:16Sean Swarner:and that makes that does make total sense because if if you look at where most adults are right now they had they never had to go through what i went through and learn what i have learned about life so let's let's go back to when you were in high school right the the biggest concerns you had were probably, what, like nice clothes, nice hairstyles, being the popular crowds, not getting picked on, making it from class to class on time, whatever that might be. For me, 13 to 18 years old, there were years of my life where I was literally terrified to close my eyes at night because I didn't know if I was going to wake up the next day.

2:00Sean Swarner:And that was because of two terminal cancers. I was given three months to live the first one, 14 days to live the second one. I was reading my last rites. I mean, a man of the cloth came in, rosary in one hand, Bible in the other one, standing at the end of the bed, started reading me my last rites as a 16, 17-year-old. So I developed a completely different perspective on success, on happiness, on fulfillment than anyone else that I think I know. And I think that's changed my entire perspective on what I've been able to accomplish. So 13 years old, advanced stage four Hodgkin's lymphoma. Doctors gave me three months to live.

2:41Sean Swarner:60, 70 pounds, heavy. I remember looking at myself in the bathroom mirror, not even being able to recognize who was looking back at me. You know, I was losing my hair because of the chemo. and I remember going into the bathroom, just like it was yesterday, man. It was intense. I remember being on my hands and knees on the shower floor and my hair was falling out in chunks. Clogging the drain, the water was rising up and I was on my hands and knees just sobbing and I was trying to figure out how I was going to move forward in life. You know, when you're 13 years old, you should be worried about your future and not your funeral.

3:23Sean Swarner:You know, you're supposed to be worried about going out on dates and your hormones kicking in and growing hair in unusual places on your body. But I was losing it, and I remember projecting three months into the future, and I still have this image burned in my mind, and it always gives me motivation when I think about it. It makes me emotional, too. I projected three months into the future, and I saw my mom, my dad, and my younger brother at the dining table for dinner. And I remember my mom was setting the table, getting ready for dinner, and there was one empty seat. And I didn't want to be the empty seat at my family's dining room table.

4:10Sean Swarner:So then I came back and I realized that when I was fighting for those cancers, not only was I fighting for my life, but I had a deeper purpose. And that purpose was one of my personal core values that still stayed with me, which is family. so I was moving forward and I wanted to live for myself and my family's lives but I also decided that I didn't want to focus on not dying I wanted to focus on living so as a 13 year old I decided that I didn't want to focus on the avoidance of something that I didn't want in my life I wanted to be attracted to and focus all my energy and attention on something I did and I learned that at a really young age so fast forward I went through the chemotherapy a year and a half later I was in remission going in for a check-up for the first cancer.

4:52Sean Swarner:They diagnosed with a second type of cancer that's super, super rare called Askin's sarcoma. And because no one's ever had these two cancers before, my chances of survival literally were 0.000000001 % chance. Basically, you're telling me there's a 0 % chance I'm going to be living in 14 days because that's the amount of time they gave me to live. And I went through three months of intense chemo, a month of radiation therapy, 10 more months of chemotherapy. And every time I was in the hospital, like the three months and then the 10 months, the one month of radiation therapy, I remember. But the three months and 10 months outside the radiation therapy, I don't remember because the treatments were so harsh.

5:37Sean Swarner:The doctors put me in a medically induced coma. So I don't remember being 16 or 17 years old. And also because of the radiation therapy, I lost the function of my right lung. But again, and survival was the first time I was going through the treatment. They never used the word cancer. They told me that I was sick and that they were going to do everything they possibly could to get me better. So in my mind, I wasn't fighting for my life. In my mind, I just had a cold or a flu or something like that. Yes, eventually I found out it was cancer. But because I wasn't in this state of being terrified of what was happening to me, I took it as it came by, one day at a time.

6:43Sean Swarner:And I was just sick. I wasn't fighting for my life. so I think that helped because I took that into the second cancer and that's when I said that the doctor gave me he was reading my last rites and I remember they want the hospital wanted me to write out a living will and I'm joking with my parents I'm like well you know I have a younger brother isn't my brother going to get my hand-me-downs anyhow like what could the hospital possibly want so then fast forward into about 10 years later that's what you probably want to talk about is the whole concept and idea of pushing limits and achieving what no one in history has ever done before.

7:20And I became the first cancer survivor to summit Mount Everest, and I did so with one

7:25Sean Swarner:lung. People thought it was impossible.

7:30Sean Swarner:Why would you do that? That's a great question. And to answer it as succinctly as possible, when I was going through the treatments, I didn't think I had much hope. And a lot of people need to see that hope. They need to be impacted and believe something is possible before they can do it themselves. So I was studying to get my master's and my doctorate in counseling psychology. I wanted to be a psychologist for cancer patients because as we all know, it's not an individual disease. We all go through it together. And I am a firm believer in the mind-body connection. And I wanted to use my mind to trick my body and everybody else in the world because they thought it was impossible.

8:28Sean Swarner:but I wanted to use Mount Everest as the highest platform in the world to scream hope, to give back to the cancer community. And it's turned into this whole global campaign now of just proving you can do amazing things with the right tools and the right teams in the right places.

8:54Sean Swarner:I weren't you

8:56Ryan Hanley:angry bitter spiteful resentful against the world God the universe like how do you how do you turn your experience and come out of it with a positive filter

9:14Sean Swarner:you know I remember I had a conversation with a guy years ago. Because you mentioned God. He heard everything I've been through. And he's like, do you believe in God? And I was like, yeah. And he's like, with everything you've been through, how can you believe in God? And I looked at him and said, with everything I've been through, how could I not? And I wouldn't be alive if I called him the big guy. I wouldn't be alive if it wasn't for the big guy upstairs. theirs. So I think with the right attitude, knowing what was happening to me, I had no control over that. You know, oftentimes when people have something horrific happen to them, or they're in a situation that they have no control over, you always have control over how you react in every situation.

10:05Sean Swarner:You always have choice, you know, and that's one of the greatest freedoms that I think we all have. You can choose how you want to react in any situation. Looking at what I went through, I know there are so many people who have gone through cancer and unfortunately they come out on the other side with this victim mentality and they just want to bury it, get rid of it, move on with their lives. And a lot of people are angry about what happened to them. Why would I want to live a life of anger? Why wouldn't I want to not just bounce back from something, but bounce forward and use that as my strength.

10:42Sean Swarner:You know, people want to get back to their new normal. There is no new normal. It's a completely new life, but it can be an amazing life. And I think looking back at what I went through and having the attitude of knowing that I can choose to be happy. I can choose to be blessed. I can feel those every Every morning I wake up. In fact, every morning I do wake up, I open my eyes and I tell myself, the past is gone. There's nothing I can do about it. Tomorrow may never come. No matter what happens today, today's the best day ever. And whose choice is it to make it that way? So why wouldn't you choose to be happy and grateful every morning and every day you're alive?

11:27Ryan Hanley:Let me – I'm going to reframe my question in. how did you specifically come out of that experience with a positive frame did you ever rage against the world um was it just a process that you had to deal with uh did your parents uh you know have a philosophy or mindset or support that kept you positive because as you said so many people who go through an experience like this which they don't deserve didn't do anything to to you know there's nothing you did at 13 that would warrant It's such a horrific experience on your life. And it's very plausible, very socially acceptable today. And I don't even mean that in a negative sense.

12:08Ryan Hanley:That if you came out angry and hateful or you came out, you know, pure victimhood, why me, woe is me. There would be communities that would support those mindsets and mentalities and would be like, we understand, you know, this is who you are. and you came out with a different mindset. You decided to share a message with the world that changes people's lives. You decided to take on challenges that even some of the most peak fit individuals would never even consider. And I'm just very interested in how you navigated that. And I'm not expecting you to, every day is sunshine and rainbows, but that's a fairly unique way of viewing the world considering what you had to go through.

12:56Sean Swarner:True, true. And I know that you're right. I don't pretend to live in a world where unicorns exist and people fart cotton candy. It doesn't happen. Every day is not a wonderful day. But with the right attitude, you know, how's your day going? Oh, it's a horrible day. Well, I never have a horrible day. I always have, always. When I do have a day like that, I consider it a less than ideal day. You know, still looking at it from a positive perspective. You know, we're on earth for a blink of an eye. And I realize this at 13 years old. I'm going to go after and chase after every opportunity that's presented to me.

13:44Sean Swarner:because I never want to have any regrets. And I think a lot of people hold on to that. They get angry. And, of course, I was angry, too. I mean, the first cancer, I was like, what the hell? But then the second cancer, I thought, I went through the first one, like, why am I getting sick again? I was like, you know, why me, man? What's going on? What did I do? asking those questions will never change the fact that I had cancer. It'll never make it go away. You know, I couldn't change that fact. But I always had, like I said, I always had control over how I reacted to it. And granted, yes, when I went to college, I buried it.

14:31Sean Swarner:I brushed it under the rug, and I didn't know how to deal with it, to be honest with you. You know, let's say freshman, sophomore, you're in college, 18, 19 years old, I'm out on a date, and I'm talking to someone, and I'm asking her, hey, you know, how's your meal? How's your steak? How's your salad? You know, how's your drink? Oh, I had cancer. You know, it's not a casual dinner conversation. but eventually I realized that it was a part of me how am I going to deal with this so it wasn't an overnight process the biggest thing that I had to deal with and a lot of people have this too you know you go through something traumatic it could be cancer it could be anything stressful like a marriage you know your body doesn't know the difference between good stress and bad stress It could be a divorce.

15:21Sean Swarner:It could be a car accident. For me, going through, and a lot of people who are survivors, there's this thing called scanxiety. You know, they go in for their scans. I have to go in once a year for my checkup. No one's ever had these two cancers, so no one knows what's going to happen to me. Every year, I have to go in and get blood work. Every five years, you know, a CAT scan and so forth. It used to terrify me going in for that blood work. And I would tell my family, my friends, hey, I'm going in. you won't hear from me for the next five days until I get my results because I am petrified until I realized I was allowing a six-letter yeah a six-letter word to control my emotions and feelings I was allowing something outside of me to trigger something on the inside nothing outside there triggers any feelings inside you.

16:16Sean Swarner:It's how you react to it. So when I realized I wanted to take my emotions and control of my emotions back, I actually went into the bathroom and I stared at myself in the mirror and I said the word cancer out loud probably 50 times. And every time that word passed my lips, it took less and less control over me. I just kept getting it out. And eventually, probably around 30 or 40, I kept saying cancer, cancer, cancer, whatever. Now, no problem, man. But eventually I started laughing at myself and I thought, what am I so afraid of?

16:55Ryan Hanley:It's like you essentially did a self-conducted exposure therapy to the word. You know, it was like exposure therapy to the word. It's incredibly interesting. I mean, I just find it fascinating that you could go through an experience like you did. And like, you know, and obviously you explained, it wasn't like you were just came out of the hospital day one and were sunshine and rainbows. You know what I mean? And I'm not even saying that that's what your life is today. Just you, you, you obviously have developed a mindset and a set of filters and beliefs and structures that allow you to view the world and incredibly positive and, you know, know, optimistic and bright and love filled place.

17:38Ryan Hanley:I mean, you can tell by your work and your message and what you do and how hard you put, how much effort you put behind it. I just think that at least that face value, that's fairly rare. Um, especially considering how early you went through all that. And I, and I think it's amazing. And, and, you know, I, I wrote something down while you were talking. I said, did God put, I'm a believer in myself. Um, did God put this cancer in Sean's life because of the message that you're sharing today. Maybe what the work that you're doing today was so critical and is so powerful and so important to so many people's lives.

18:13Ryan Hanley:And he knew that you could handle it. And even though it was awful and you wouldn't wish it on your enemy, probably, you were able, you were strong enough to get through it and come out with this viewpoint, right? And the message wouldn't exist if you didn't. And I think it's a wonderful thing. why climbing mountains like what was it about i mean i know i love the the visual and the challenge i mean i love that what you'd explained about about the experience but like have you always been an adventurer is that have you always been someone who likes the outdoors have you always like big challenges like why did you choose this particular challenge as the one that you were going to take on um for your life and all and ultimately as it is continued to define your message as you've gone.

18:59Sean Swarner:Right. When I was younger, I was a competitive swimmer. I mean, my parents stuck me in the YMCA at five or six years old, right? So I had always been an athlete. I've done swimming, cross country, track, football, pole vaulting even, you name it, I've done it. And I've always been pushing the boundaries of not comparing myself to others, but comparing myself to myself, right? So one of the things that my parents instilled in me was when I, my favorite was the breaststroke. And I remember when I was a little kid doing the 25 meter breaststroke, touch the wall, mom or dad will pull me out of the water.

19:40Sean Swarner:And they would ask me, did you have fun? And did you do your best? Just those two questions, not, Hey, why didn't you beat Ryan? You know, he came in first. You should have come in first. Now, did you do your best? And did you have fun? I could always say I had fun. I had a great time. And then the next weekend, say the swim meet, 25 meter breaststroke, what'd you swim last week? A 30, let's just pipe and throw numbers out there. Uh, 30 seconds. Well, what do you want to do this week? 29, 20, 29.5, you know, to get a little bit better and a little bit better, never comparing myself to others. So eventually other comp, the competitors were never a distraction.

20:19Sean Swarner:and eventually because I was improving myself every every week I was the best right so I took that attitude into everything that I've done and how it came about was looking at literally like I said the highest platform in the world and I wanted to use that to to help other survivors believe in themselves and share this perspective with them. And something else that happens a lot still, which is insane, and I never believed it before, but chemo brain is a real thing, and I completely forgot what the question was.

21:06Ryan Hanley:The good news is you answered it perfectly. All right, good. So the question was really around why choosing like adventuring? You know, I'll put it as a broad stroke. Adventures as a way of, and adventures is probably diminutive to some of the things you've actually done. But, you know, it just, I'm interested in why we make the decisions that we make, right? Like you could have done ultra marathons. You could have done swimming things. You could have done, and not that, you know, you haven't done different things. But like, you know, choosing to climb Mount Everest. uh you know i i know that you do like exposition uh exhibition expeditions to like kilmajaro and these these crazy places right like um i think it's just i'm just i'm always interested in why we make the decision why we choose the things even even that we do you know like it you could have been there's a million things you could have done to inspire others to be to to be successful in their lives, to think positively, to follow along in some of the mindsets that you've created.

22:15Ryan Hanley:And you chose to climb mountains. And I think that's phenomenal. And I'm just always very interested in why.

22:23There's an amazing parallel between going through cancer and climbing Everest, for example,

22:29Sean Swarner:any of the big mountains. A lot of people don't realize that when you're climbing Everest, you don't show up at base camp and then slowly work your way up the mountain. It takes four weeks. You establish different camps. Because if we went from where you are, where I am now, and could all of a sudden magically show up at the top of Mount Everest, we would be dead within 5, 10 minutes. Because of the lack of oxygen. Our minds would suffer cerebral edema. Our bodies would suffer pulmonary edema. And we would literally just fall apart, fall asleep, and die. So we would go up the mountain to, say, Camp 1.

23:06Sean Swarner:and then we come back down to base camp and we would rest day, two days, three days, whatever. And what that does is you go up with a full backpack, you shuttle stuff up there, come back down with an empty backpack and you're shuttling things up the mountain. But for your body, it's actually manufacturing more red blood cells and hemoglobin to be more efficient in altitude. Very similarly to going through the chemo treatments, I couldn't go in And a patient couldn't go in and get treatment after treatment after treatment because the medicine alone would destroy the body. So you have to have some time off.

23:44Sean Swarner:So there are a lot of similarities. And one of the things that is also very interesting is when you reach the summit. Like when I reached the top of Everest, I looked around and it was amazing. I broke down in tears because I was so emotional. but the instant i realized i had made it up there i made history i looked around and i thought to myself i have to go back down so it's it's very similar in the fact that when you go through chemo when you're going on this cancer journey when you get into remission you still have a few more treatments left you still have to get back down so the reason i chose adventuring the reason i chose Everest was because I think pushing your body and your mind to the extremes, to the limits.

24:35Sean Swarner:I know what pain is like. I've been there. I know what it's like to have a bone marrow test where the needles are dragging. It's like a surgical needle going through just in my back, just above my butt. And I can still feel the nerve endings being dragged by the needle, you know, and to aspirate part of the marrow. I know what pain feels like. And I want people to use what they've been through to become stronger. Because we have all, We have all survived 100 % of life's most difficult moments. And that's a pretty good record. And if people realize that we're 100 % at bat on life's most difficult situations, shouldn't we then think whatever we're going through now is going to be very similar to what we've already done in the past with that record of 100 % success?

25:45Most people run from pain as fast and as far as they possibly can.