Why Most People Are Cowards (And How to Not Be One) | Zuby

25:20But yeah, carry on.

25:21Ryan Hanley:I agree. I agree. And this is where I was going with that question. So I was at a, my home industry that I've kind of grown up in is the insurance industry, which is, by the way, every little boy's dream. When I was six, I was like, you know what I want to be when I grow up? An insurance agent. I want to sell insurance for a living and have, you know, I'll be a conservative in New York and sell insurance. So everybody will hate me. So I was at a mastermind and the topic of politics in content came up at this mastermind. It was about 60 kind of very successful, hard-driving insurance organizations of different ilk and all the leaders there.

26:00Ryan Hanley:And we're having this discussion. And I said, I have a problem with this idea that I don't talk about politics. I don't ever talk about this idea. I said, I don't think you have to make your brand politics. but to the point that you just made to me it's a complete cop-out trust me I'm amazing at what I do except I'm gonna lie to you about how I feel about politics trust me I'm great at what I do and I would never screw you over but I'm gonna lie to you how I feel about transgenderism or uh you know insert you know whatever you know mass immigration or whatever topic I vehemently disagree right but I'm going to lie to you or I'm going to whitewash it all because, you know, I, I, I want to make sure everyone can do business with me.

26:55Ryan Hanley:And I said in the group, I said, I find that to be cowardly. I said, I don't think your brand has to be political. I'm not saying go out and take hard stances in be a, be a, be an activist. But if you are, if you have a, maybe a, let's, we'll take you're you're of christian faith right you're of christian faith and you call yourself a christian and you go to church but then the decisions you make the things you support you know you put the black square during black lives matter you put the rainbow during whatever you know transgender things going on and like but you don't actually believe that like you're a coward and dude i got absolutely lit up right now i don't i don't care because it's what i believe and it's the way that I've always been.

27:41Was this an in-person meeting?

27:44Ryan Hanley:In person. Yeah. There's about 60 of us in a big horseshoe. Right. Okay. And what was funny was, and what was funny about it was, so people are like, ah, you know, all this pushback and you don't understand. And I live here and I live there and blah, blah, blah. And this is what you do. And it's inappropriate to talk about politics and business and, you know, all these different, and there's, there's, there's degrees of nuance and truth to all these arguments. But what was funny to me, and this is where I'll end my long-winded question here, is afterwards, I had about a dozen of those people come up to me and go, you're right, but I'm still never going to do it.

28:23Ryan Hanley:And I still haven't, that was a few months ago, I don't know that I've still processed that engagement 100%. You know what I mean? Like, the idea that I agree, I agree, but I'm still not gonna do it. I'm still gonna hold back. I'm still gonna whitewash and then bitch, right? I'm gonna, I'm gonna not talk up about the fact that I'm against mass illegal immigration, but then over beers at the bar, I'm gonna bitch about it and spend 30 minutes giving me a diatribe of my feelings on it. And I'm like, you're a coward. You don't get to bitch about it at the bar if you're quiet about it in public, in my opinion.

29:05Ryan Hanley:I don't know. This is where I start to struggle with how to have these conversations. Well, welcome to the party, man. I mean, gosh, if I could tell you how many, if I could tell you how many, especially over the last seven years, if I could tell you how many, like, DMs and messages and people I've had come up to me in public in different countries and express these type of things. and, you know, like, oh, man, I wish I could do what you're doing or I agree with you. But especially during COVID, good grief is probably at the peak then. Yeah, man, it's like human beings are going to disappoint you.

29:43And I often say like disappointment is the gap between expectations and reality. And the only way to kind of deal with it sometimes, and this sounds negative, but it's not, is to just kind of like lower your expectations of other people. If you expect all or most people to be courageous or to be entrepreneurial or to be creative or to be super free thinking or whatever, like you're always going to be disappointed because most people just are not these things, at least not on a day-to-day basis. I think when push comes to shove, once in a while, you might get someone who surprises you and, you know, they kind of rise up to the occasion.

30:27But the average person is average. Most, you know, people are typical in these things. And there are, you know, most human traits exist on something like a bell curve or a normal distribution. So for every hyper courageous person you have, you have a hyper coward. And most people are somewhere in the middle. And I wouldn't say the middle is particularly brave and courageous, right? There's a reason why we celebrate heroes, why we celebrate courage, why we, because it's, it's rare, right? If it were just, oh, everyone is super courageous. Everyone is brave. Then it's nothing to, it's nothing to praise or celebrate, right?

31:05Why are we like, oh, that person is a genius. Oh, that person is like outstanding because they're, they're an outlier. So I've learned to just not have necessarily sort of high expectations of the sort of general population in these things like if i i already believe that and then like the years from 2020 to 2022 just made it like even more clear and apparent with all the goofiness of this pandemic and people's behavior during that and so you just have to act accordingly if you are one of those people who is that in that kind of minority which i guess you are, which, you know, I must be, then you just act accordingly.

31:45You surround yourself with other people who are close to you who maybe have that in them. And just generally interacting, like I said, you just, you don't have those expectations. And so therefore, when people say those type of things, or when they behave that kind of way, you're not kind of like, shocked by it in a way that you need to spend a long time processing it. You're just like, yeah, you know, that's just, that's just how people are. I wish it were different. There's many, many things I wish I could change about humanity and change about the world in general. But I think one of the reasons why I'm like a very sort of peaceful and content person is just because I'm very realistic with all that.

32:23So I don't get so like, you know, I actually had a conversation with someone yesterday and he was telling me that he's like, gosh, like he's like, I rarely see you comment on like all of like the conflicts that are going on in the world and like all the, you know, foreign wars and all this type of stuff. And I'm just like, what, what would me, what, what can I, what will I add to those conversations? You see, like I have a, I have a limited time. I have limited, limited attention and limited energy. And I have messages I'm trying to get out to people and ways I'm trying to help people the best way that I can.

33:03and yeah I can spend a ton of time getting like outraged on all these things and doing my online activism and putting up the hashtags and this and this and as you know lots of people get a lot of juice from that but for me personally I'm just like that doesn't move the needle in any way it's not necessarily good for me or my audience it might just polarize people even further and ultimately it's not going to help things that are actually on the ground when there's a time and a place where I can use my voice and my platform to like offer some sort of unique insight or encourage people to help in a very specific way, then I'm willing to do that when I can.

33:40But, you know, Ryan, everyone just has their, I guess what I mean to say is like everyone just has their way of operating in the world. For some people, that is the rule of, you know what, I just never talk about religion or politics. They don't talk about it with their family, with their friends at the workplace whatever and that's not um that's not an entirely wrong strategy shall we say right um there can be times actually where maybe that's the smart thing to do because we know that the complete opposite also isn't the correct position to be in right you'd also you we all get annoyed by that person who cannot like keep their politics and their opinions on every single social and cultural issue, like out of the workplace or out of the family group chat or out of like the, you're just trying to have a conversation with friends and they want to talk about, you know, Trump did this and the Democrats this and the GOP that.

34:37And it's just like, bro, like, you know, cool. There's a time and place to talk about it, but can we, you know, just discuss something else? So everyone's kind of got a different, is on a different place in that sliding scale, something I'd say is a bit comparable is like, if you are someone who's on social media, or you're a podcaster, you're some sort of public facing figure is how much you make public and how much you keep private. Right? So there are crazy people who are like YouTubers or streamers or whatever. And like, they really overshare, right? They share every single detail of their lives.

35:11Like I've seen women giving birth on Instagram. And I'm like, I did not need to, like that's oversharing, right? That's too much, right?

35:20Ryan Hanley:Nobody needs to see that. Some of us have to see it. No one needs to see it. Yeah, it's a little too much, right? You know, or sharing everything about their children and constantly sharing photos and videos of not just them, but their kids. And like, I did this, like every meal that they eat and they're posting it. And I'm like, okay, this is too much. At the same time, if you're so, so, so private that you don't share like any info at all about yourself, then it's going to be hard for people to connect with you. It's going to be hard for people to trust you. It's going to be hard for people to like, even, even know who you are.

35:51Cause it's just like, you know, is this even a real human being? Is this like an, you know, uh, is this just a logo? Is it a company? Is it an AI avatar? So you have, there's a balance between all of these things and people find it in different places. And so ultimately, you know, I think you just, you, you, you know, where that lies for you and you kind of just do your thing and navigate it the best way that you think you can and don't get too frustrated if not everyone else does the same.

36:23Ryan Hanley:Yeah, yeah, I agree. I mean, you know what's funny is after that mastermind incident that we talked about, I went back and I read a few chapters of The 48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene. That's one of, guys, if you're listening to this and you have not read or at least what are those services called? Headway or one of those services that breaks the book down. I mean, I don't necessarily always recommend those, but 48 Laws of Power to me was such an eye-opener. I got there through The Prince from Machiavelli, and then that kind of got me going on these power structures. And then I read 48 Laws of Power.

37:05Ryan Hanley:And, you know, when you think through the world in this idea of power, not just in the I'm more physically powerful from you, but how do you maintain your own sovereignty by understanding how power works around you, right? You start to see things differently. And I did, you know, I did change my mind, not change my mind, but I feel like I have a little more grace for people who had that opinion of I'm going to bitch in the bar for a half hour and make a big stink about my opinions, but not say it in public. Because, you know, when I really started to think about it a little bit, I still don't know how my head fully wrapped around it, but it was, I could see the argument of if If I take any kind of stance or even infer a political or religious opinion, let's say, in my public business life, I could be putting my salary in jeopardy.

38:07Ryan Hanley:I could be putting my business in jeopardy and I have children and a family I have to take care of and on it goes. I think you are, I think you're denying to a certain extent your responsibility to, I don't want to necessarily say, your response, I think to a certain extent we have a responsibility to be true to who we are in the eyes of God. And I think as long as we have a good relationship with that, that's your perspective. However, if good people are quiet, then the only people we hear are the bad, the negative, right? So to me, having a political or religious or public opinion, it doesn't have to be you're wrong, Zuby, and I'm right.

38:54Ryan Hanley:But it can just be this is the way I feel and why I feel this way and how I operate my day-to-day. and I do think that to a certain extent we have a responsibility to not allow bad ideas to spread

39:12Ryan Hanley:and I think that used to be an American value I don't think it is anymore and I think cancel culture I think a lot of people are still shell-shocked from cancel culture even though I don't know that that necessarily exists anymore but I try to encourage people through this show and through the work that I do to, you don't have to be an outspoken political commentator. That's not what I'm trying to say. I'm trying to say just be honest and true to what your value structure is. And maybe it's that they're not sure what their value structure is. And maybe it's a little bit of insecurity to that opinion, right?

39:49Ryan Hanley:Maybe that's what it is. I don't know, but I know I feel a responsibility to be upfront with who I am. And the worst thing that I found that's come from it is people self-select out of my life. Sure. That's the worst thing that's happened to me. Maybe a few negative comments, whatever. But for the most part - That's generally a good thing. Yeah. So I wouldn't even say it's a negative. It might feel like it in the short term, but I think long-term it's, you know, if people cannot - Yeah, I agree. If people leave your life because they don't genuinely like who you are or they are so intolerant that they can't handle that sort of difference of opinion or perspective, then, you know, you got to let those people go.

40:38Yeah, like I totally hear what you're saying. And I share a lot of that perspective, which is why anyone knows, I mean, I'm not I'm not shy about my, my views and perspectives. And I haven't been for a long time. Um, had I been, in fact, I wouldn't have the audience that I do because people like to hear what I have to say on things. Um, you know, something else I was going to say is like, you know, as you were speaking, I was just thinking it's also, you know, tact is a thing, picking your battles is the thing. And there are also different degrees of it all, right? Like there are, there are different degrees.

41:10Some things are more egregious than others okay so there are always things where it's like just like in any sort of relationship right like there are certain things you can let slide and it's not worth like sure you might feel a certain way you might not really like that but is is it really worth like going through this whole process of debate and conflict resolution for this thing no but there are other things that It's like, okay, no, no, no, no. Right? Like, we have to deal with this right now. Right? This could be with your spouse. It could be with your children. It could be with a friend.

41:46It could be with a work colleague. So on. So I agree on that front. And I'll tell you one thing that where I very strongly agree is what to me definitely shows cowardice is when people countersign all their actual values. Okay? So like if you're a Christian, if you're saying I'm a Bible-believing Christian or whatever, and then June comes and you're putting up rainbow flags on you, right? Like, no, no, no, no. Like what are you doing, right? It doesn't mean that, oh, you know, your neighbor puts up a rainbow flag and you go and like tear it down or some company puts it and you have to go on some like giant rant on YouTube or X or whatever.

42:26Like about, you know, I just look at it. I'm just looking to be like, yeah, that's stupid. Like I think that's dumb. It's virtue signaling, whatever. and you you you kind of just get on with your life you know what i mean but then there are some things where it's like okay wait wait wait no this is crossing a line i need to you know you want to put freaking 10 year olds on uh cross sex hormones or you want to write like no no no no like you you you got to speak up right like this is not something that this there are certain things where it's like all right you just don't cross certain lines um and i think that's how most people, um, I would like to think that's kind of how most people filter.

43:01Um, cause I see some people where it's like, and it kind of gets tiring because they're just like outraged all the time and they're picking every fight and every single, and I'm just like, dude, like you don't need to react. You don't need to react to everything. There's a lot of stupid stuff in the world. There's a lot of bad opinions. You could, you could spend all day just like reacting to stupid Tik TOK videos or Instagram videos or whatever. Yeah, go ahead.

43:23Ryan Hanley:I had a buddy lose his mind over, he's a big entrepreneur, just outspoken individualist, and AOC calling Elon an idiot, right? And I said, bud, I said, bud, anybody who listens to AOC make an argument that Elon Musk is an idiot, they are losing the universe's, like, that's the universe's idiot test. Like the universe puts these arguments out there and goes, if you believe this, I now know you're a moron. Because like that's not worth fighting. I go, dude, that's not worth fighting. I go, anybody who would honestly believe that Elon Musk is an idiot because AOC made an argument against him. Like that person, like you don't want that person in your life anyways.

44:12Ryan Hanley:I was like, come on, man. Like that's not a battle worth fighting. And he's like, she doesn't understand what it takes. I go, yeah, she's also lying. She's a performative artist. Like, come on, man. Like, there's no rational, you know, human being with an IQ over 50 who could think that this guy's an idiot. You may not agree with him, but to think that he's stupid or an idiot, like, come on, man. Like, what are you doing? And that was like one of those arguments that I was like, but that one's not worth fighting. It's not worth going down that path. But I do, we do get, we get caught in these traps.

44:44Ryan Hanley:And it's very interesting. You know, one that got me and is really I probably am not going to give up is when Mondami came out and said we're throwing off the frigidity of rugged individualism for the warmth of collectivism. Outside of my Christian beliefs, I don't know that there is a belief I more strongly push against than the idea of collectivism in a public manner. I mean, obviously, I shouldn't say obviously, but there's the argument of like every family is socialist. There is a collectivism to your pocket of humans, to your family. But as soon as you start expanding to community, to state, to region, to country, et cetera, that goes away.

45:32Ryan Hanley:It has to go away. And it's been the defining characteristic of every hard-charging, growing civilization in history. Yet here we are back to we're all the same as long as I get to decide. That's the part that I don't understand with this is like we're all for collectivism and socialism and everyone's equal. Everyone gets the same. But everybody also wants to be the person that decides how much we get, what we get, when we get it. And I'm like, you don't get to do that. You only get to have that belief if you are giving the power to someone else. Right. If you don't get to decide, that's you can have that belief if you don't get to decide, but you can't go vote for me.

46:16Ryan Hanley:I'll make sure everything's equal to trust me. I'm the one right. Like I just I can't even wrap my head around that idea. And that one got me, though. That one got me good. And I that's got my hooks in me because I can't let that go. I so strongly disagree with that mentality. Yeah, man. Um, look, you know, the thing with, with me as well as, and I practice this in my personal life and I recommend it to other people is, um, you know, I'm, I'm willing to talk about politics and social issues and cultural issues, like when the time calls and I've done a lot of it, gosh, hundreds of hours, if not thousands of them.

46:52Um, but ultimately if I'm being totally real with you, I'm a general believer that they're the only two forms of voting that are really effective are with your wallet and with your feet. So when I talk to people who, you know, they might be in California, they might be in New York, they might be in London, they might be wherever, and they're constantly angry about the political situation and the way that things are going and the fact that, like, under this democracy, people keep voting for the wrong person kind of thing. I'm just like, look, you got to vote with your feet or with your wallet. Sure, you can stay there and, you know, complain for other.

47:30And look, there are places that it's not going to change. It's not going to change within our lifetime in some places. Right. Certainly not within the next couple of decades. And, you know, people have this mentality of, you know, stay and fight. And I get that. And I think there can be something honorable about it. But I think fighting. I think it's worth fighting when you have a chance of winning, like genuinely. And if it's severely affecting you and or your family in a negative way, then I think the smart and also the right thing to do is to move to where things are more in line with you. Right.

48:08So I could be sitting in the UK right now and I could be complaining about rising socialism and high taxes and increasing crime in certain parts and mass migration and bad weather and all the things that, you know, I may not like about my home country. or I could go and live somewhere where I actually already agree with the way that things are run and I like the weather and I'm surrounded by people who generally think like me and so on which is what I did which is why I live in Dubai okay so instead of complaining about taxes I'm like you know what there's places where I don't have to pay taxes so instead of complaining every year or every month about how much I'm being taxed why don't I go live in one and why don't Why don't I go invest there and spend my money there and, you know, do things there?

48:56It doesn't mean I can't travel to other places. It doesn't mean I've, like, abandoned my country or anything like that. But I just think that that's what's genuinely effective. And even when we look at our countries, you know, you're from the States, I'm from the UK. Regardless of who is in power, at least culturally, things tend to shift leftwards. Okay. So if you are someone who is more conservative, and especially if that is rooted in faith, if that's rooted in Christianity, Christianity doesn't change, right? There's not like—Christianity is just Christianity. Christian teachings and ethics and morality, they stay still.

49:36So naturally, as time progresses, if you're a true Bible-believing Christian, you're going to be seen as more and more extreme as time goes on, because the sort of standards and morals of society deviate further and further and further from something that is not moving. So you're not moving to the right. Things are just sort of drifting off the edge the other way. And so just with that understanding, I'm not here telling people, hey, like, don't vote or like, you know, things can never be fixed that way. Because, you know, once in a while, sure, things can go in a good direction, El Salvador. But generally speaking, in the short term, I'm a big fan of, you know, go where you're treated best.

50:15So sure, that's easier and it's harder for different people. But I think if someone feels that that strongly and passionately about it, you know, complaining doesn't solve anything. Complaining doesn't solve anything. Ranting doesn't solve anything. Yelling on social media doesn't really solve anything. Even a lot of protests don't really solve anything unless they're like very specific and directed. And what you can do. Yeah. But if you do want to send a message, you know, you can especially as an entrepreneur, especially as a business owner, especially as a, you know, someone with a family man or whatever.

50:46I'm like, you know, if the math makes sense for you, and I can't speak to everyone's personal situations and their family dynamics and all of that, like, that's all for them to work out. My point is just like, if it is that bad for someone, then I'm just like, why don't you just put yourself in a better place? There are already millions, if not billions of people around the world who actually agree with all the things you're saying and are aligned with your beliefs. And there are places like in the U.S. U.S. is an interesting example because obviously with federalism, you know, you have 50 different states and then even within them, you have all the different counties and cities like you can find even without leaving the country, you can find a place where people are generally, you know, aligned with you and you're not going to sound like a crazy person for sort of saying the thing.

51:34And this is true of everyone. Like if you're someone who's all on board with like, you know, LGBTQXYZ, you know, weed should be, drugs should be all legal, criminals, you know, thefts under$900 should not be penalized. You know, you can arrest someone 10 times and they should keep letting them out like soft on crime, defund them. If that's your view, like there's places in the U.S. you can move right now where they're fully aligned with that, right? But if you're like a stodged, Bible-believing, hardcore conservative, gun-toting, patriot type who wants – like there are also places where you can go and you can be surrounded by people who are also like that.

52:12And you're not going to have this sort of constant battle against your neighbors and against like the state and against the government. And they're not going to be like trying to trans your kids in the schools or whatever garbage you're trying to get away from. So that's one of my thoughts as well. That's generally one of my beliefs. Unfortunately, in the UK, it's a much smaller place, and it's a lot more sort of top down. And there's no like Texas or Florida or Montana of the United Kingdom. So, you know, if the ship goes down and you're not on board with it, you kind of have to just leave the country.

52:41And I know a lot of people who have done that. I know a lot of people from Canada and many other places who have also done the same. A lot of them are coming to Dubai, by the way, which is kind of interesting. um so yeah that's one of my general philosophies and it ties into my my general just idea and belief of you know you can only the only person you can like totally control and even we can't totally control ourselves but the person you control can control to the greatest degree is yourself um and then beyond that your immediate circle you know you can influence them to some degree. And outside of that, yeah, you can try and you can nudge people.

53:20I wouldn't do all the things I did if I thought that my words had no impact on people. But ultimately, you know, trying to change a whole system or change an entire city or state or let alone country. I mean, that's, that's tough. That's tough. And there are people working in the sort of complete opposite direction and they're fired up. And then you just have the fact that politics is just a complete mess anyway and good people don't even want to generally be involved in it

53:53Ryan Hanley:i think that last statement is incredibly true i think for the most part we're dealing with a lot of c players i think that you can disagree with trump and i do on things and but he's an a player i think it's hard for c players to see an ape i think a big part of the general i think there are people who honestly just don't understand what he's doing right or wrong, right? Not, not a judgment on the actual actions efficacy, but I think people, I think there are a lot of people who simply just can't keep up with the, with what he's trying to do. Right. And I think there's a lot of, and I think that goes for a lot of things in politics.

54:32Ryan Hanley:There's a lot of C players because a players want to build businesses or, you know, have lives where they're constantly attacked. And I think it's only a C player who has no other way of achieving success other than, you know, putting on a party hat and willing to do things that others aren't, right, or take positions they don't honestly believe in, in order to achieve a goal. That's the tactics of a C player, in my opinion. I haven't met many A players that are willing to do that. My last question for you and as we wrap up here is uh you just recently became a father congratulations um how is that impacted i don't want to say impact your life because i know your life is probably bananas because i got two of them um and you know i not that you uh want any unsolicited parenting advice but the only thing i ever tell uh particularly dads is like the first like six months are cool because it's new, then it sucks until they're about five.

55:36Ryan Hanley:And then at five, they become awesome. You know what I mean? Like six months to five, you're almost like pretending like you like them. You're like, oh, they just puked all over and shat all over and ripped the curtain down. Oh, they're so cute. Oh yeah, it's my kid. And then in the back of your mind, you're like, this is miserable. Why did we do this? And then God forbid you have another one, right? But then at five - I'd like to have at least five. Yeah, good, good. I love that. I would have had more. Unfortunately, I'm divorced. I would have had more if I'd stayed with my wife, but, or my ex-wife.

56:11Ryan Hanley:But I promise you at five, they turn amazing. That's when they get awesome. But you gotta, no. But just how is that? Has it changed the way you process? Like when I do this show, right? How I'm able to stand behind the things that I say and why I try to always work through whether it's going to be good or bad for my brand or whatever. What I honestly believe is because I know someday my kids may listen to this show. And I'm doing this for them. I have conversations with people like you so I can learn from you. I can take in your ideas, how you process things, and take pieces of that and teach it to my kids.

56:57Ryan Hanley:Like I'll have interviews and there are parts of things you've said today And then when they get home from school, be like, I was talking to this guy, Zuby Tay, he's awesome. He's from Dubai. I was telling him on the way to school, right? I'm like, you know, he's got this awesome, you know, I just, I see you very much as like a polymath or a renaissance. You know, you take on all these different topics, your music. I mean, we haven't even gotten into half, three quarters of the shit that you do. But I do it so that I can put in front of them ideas. Because they're their own people, but I do it so that if they ever go back and listen to everything, read everything, which would be insane.

57:35Ryan Hanley:But if they did that, that I've created, I want to be able to stand in front of them and be proud of what I did. And you now know who I am, your dad, right? You were a kid through a lot of it. You don't really know your parents until you get older. Sometimes you never learn who your parents are. But I want them to know who I am. How has having a child impacted the way you create, the way you think, or has it not at all? That's a good question. You know, I think like mentally I was shifting towards dad mode before I became a father. And a lot of the decisions that I've made over the last few years were knowing that I want to have a family and be a husband and a father and so on.

58:26But obviously things change when you're holding that child in your arms and looking at them in the face. So what I would say is I think being a father has made me care more about fewer things. I was already disciplined. I was already focused. I'm not one of those people who's like, oh, I was a mess and then I became a dad and I put my life together. No, my life was already very much put together. But it's expanded my capacity for love, for sure. And it makes me make decisions differently because I think less selfishly. So when I'm making decisions, I'm thinking about the family unit, and I'm thinking about my wife and my son and our future children that we're going to have, Lord willing, when I make decisions.

59:18So short term and especially long term, I'm kind of just thinking towards that. I'm not just thinking of like, oh, OK, is this good for me or is this, you know, in line with, you know, what I feel like doing right now? It's like, OK, I got to go beyond that. So I'd say those are the main things. And maybe one of the things that helped me kind of shift towards it before is, you know, I've been an uncle for 19 years and I have 10 nieces and nephews between the ages of two and 19. so in terms of the different ages and stages i've got four older siblings yeah i've seen i've seen all my older siblings go through all of this right um and i've seen my different nieces and nephews at the different stages and you know been quite privy to all of that so sure it's not the same as having your own children of course not but it's not starting from a complete it's not starting from complete zero either um so yeah that's uh probably how best i'd describe it but it's awesome.

1:00:17And, you know, my son's already passed the six month stage and things are still awesome. So hopefully it won't be from six months, six months till five years. Hopefully, hopefully.

1:00:26Ryan Hanley:I'm also just joking to a certain extent, too. There's just, you know, there's like this and it really it really starts when they start moving, you know, when they get when they get mobile, because you're like trying to do stuff and where you used to be able to keep them contained in a little box or like a playpen or like push your couches together or whatever you do, like, like, They can get out of that. And now like you have to be, you're not only like trying to have a job and have a relationship with your spouse. And now you have a mobile human who has a undeveloped brain that just wants to touch everything.

1:00:59And like at a certain point, you'd be like, ah, but it's also the most amazing thing ever.

1:01:04Ryan Hanley:And, you know, I hate that so many people, my sister's in this frame where they're in their 30s and they're still like, you know, I'm not ready. And I'm like, you're never going to be ready. You're just, there's no, this isn't like preparing for a test. Like, this is, it's more like, it's more like sex. You have no idea what it's like until you do it for the first time, right? And you suck at it at the beginning. And then hopefully you get better with more practice. That's basically what having a kid is. And I just find it to be the most amazing thing. And I'm glad that it's been such a wonderful experience for you.

1:01:50Ryan Hanley:I'm sure just, you know, there's limited time we spent together here today. And, you know, being someone who's followed along with your journey for a while. I hope you have five, man. I really do. The world needs more people with five kids. And I just appreciate the hell out of you. I appreciate your perspective. Could talk to you for hours, but I know you've been very generous with your time. It's late where you are starting to get late into your evening. And I just appreciate you, man. Not that people have a hard time following you, but if there's one place they can go to go deeper into your world, if they're not connected, what would be that place?

1:02:24Ryan Hanley:Would it be X or somewhere else? Yeah. Any social media at Zuby Music. Z-U-B-Y music. And if you want to check out my writing and, um, I've got a sub stack, which is real talk with Zuby.com. So at Zuby music and real talk with Zuby.com. Yeah. Sub stack is, is a pretty, pretty interesting little community. Um, that's where my writing is too. And I found that to be very interesting. Um, I appreciate you, man. Thank you so much. I wish you nothing but the best. Congratulations on your son and, uh, uh, just keep doing what you're doing. Thank you, Ryan. I appreciate it, man. God bless.