E092 - The Guaranteed Way to Live Your Best Life as a Man | Chris Williamson

38:03All right, bro, go to fucking Wakefield. Have a walk around Wakefield and tell me how well things are going. It's not great. For the people that you've spoken to and what you've seen, is there any hope for the UK? Ah, dude, I'm very cautious about... It's a lost state, you know, it's a failed empire. I don't know. Again, normalizing, I don't know. I... can try and spitball an opinion, which is, I think you need a bottom-up cultural change that helps people who are builders and agentic and different and unique thinkers to feel welcome there. You know, why is it that two people, two largely like normal guys, relatively unremarkable people, both left to go and do this thing that you can do from anywhere on the planet?

38:59Like your lifestyle, obviously, and quality of life and weather and taxes and stuff like both of which are true. But why did we leave the UK? I think because if you're going to do something which is non-typical, the UK is not a particularly welcoming place for that. They don't like people straying from the typical path. And in the US and maybe in Dubai as well, if you try and do something different in the right environment, you end up feeling supported because people are like, yeah go and get your dreams man that's interesting you're very enthusiastic do that in the uk you're just called gay you know you'll get hated on yeah stop being such a puff that's weird yeah i that just never it never spoke to me it never made me feel like i was being supported in that way yeah how is uh chris the businessman doing now see this is this is doing pretty well newtonics rattling along thank you what were the numbers you pulled in last year uh i'm not going to report that publicly, but it went well.

39:58I mean, I haven't taken a penny from it. All I've done, get that in you, go on. All I've done in this business is continue to put more money into fund stock. Yeah, that's right. That's right. You're going to get 10 % better at speaking now that you put it. You should have had it before. It's good. Look, I love building brands. I love coming up with copy. It's what I did in my last job as a club promoter. Like from the outside, professional party boy from the inside very very careful at crafting flyer design and event description and club night name and brand identity and stuff like that and i really love it and i love the process of going through doing this and coming up with the eye and you know like productivity drink instead of energy drink and then amazon made a new category on amazon of productivity drinks just because of us so we were ranked number one in a category of one that we mate that's all algo driven right no it wasn't someone in the back end going oh my god productivity drink this is the new but it was cool and um what surprised you about going into the beverage industry fucking expensive and hard and like really competitive and you need a ton of money and it's like it's actually probably one of the worst cpg categories you could go into ask anybody anyone that's good at cpg consumer packaged goods and they'll say well what you don't want it to be is low margin and heavy to ship.

41:18And that's exactly what this is. So we really decided to play on hard mode, but I didn't think, and I still don't think that there is a product that delivers this level of effectiveness that is evidence-based, you know, research-backed, a better-for-you energy drink that actually works and doesn't take your face off and doesn't ruin your sleep. And you're not worried about taking for a long amount of time and actually makes you get better as you take it more consistently. So, and I wanted it and it didn't exist with modern wisdom, the podcast. There was a, uh, corner of content that I didn't think was being serviced.

41:55I wanted to learn about human nature, why we are the way that we are, how to live a good life. Um, I wanted to ask people questions about how they dealt with like difficult times in their lives and darkness and, and, and hope and, and how humans work. I wanted to really go deep into psychology, philosophy and history. i just didn't think that that was like quite being serviced the way that i wanted to and you know it's got a lot of rogan in it it's got a bit of sam harrison it's got a lot of the school of life it's got a bit of peterson in it a lot of tim ferris in it but it didn't that none of those guys individually were doing what i wanted the thing that i wanted didn't exist so i made it as a podcast and the product i wanted didn't exist as newtonics so we built it and um i love it and we're gonna keep doing so the goal now is to try and get it in the stores we'll move into retail and as any of my fellow CPG business owners out there know, the pivot from direct to consumer online to trying to put something into stores is largely just a stock problem.

42:52And the stock problem is just a money problem, apart from a production problem. So you need a lot of cash, a ton of cash. And you can bootstrap it, right, by just putting an order in, sell it. You've got your profit over the top, which means your next order can be what you spent last time plus the profit. Okay, so we step that up, that ladder, sell go again sell go again so but the curve is really really slow unless your margins are fucking huge and as we've already identified they're not with ready to drinks yeah uh so we're doing a raise we're going to look for an influx of cash that cash will be a credit facility that we can use that we can dump and then we'll begin to move into retail probably in the uk first just that you can get better penetration because the country's so much smaller so maybe we end up in co-op or WH Smiths or Sainsbury's or Safeway or M &S or, or fucking Astra.

43:41I don't know. Safeway. Yeah. That's still around. I don't know. Maybe, but I'm sure I'll be told in the comments. Yeah. But like, if you, if you can crack America, then you've, you've pretty much done it. Well, I mean, if you can crack America, you need an unlimited amount of money. I don't, it's like, there's like 7 ,000 targets or something in America. So the amount of cash that you need to be able to spin that up. I mean, it's a significant amount for probably Dr. Pepper, their 7-Eleven deal will make it that influx. If it was dropped, would make an impact on their balance sheet. And that's fucking Keurig Dr.

44:16Pepper, right? So yeah, it'd be, yeah. Cause you mentioned before, it's so competitive. There'll be people who will not wanting to see you in. That's true. But I think you have a real advantage as a, an underdog, especially if you're an underdog who looks like they don't know what they're doing because people will discount what you can do. And if you are being a bit of a stealth fighter in that way, having a skillset that people can't immediately understand, like James Smith, for instance, unbelievably good at just telling people the fact when it comes to health and fitness. It doesn't matter how much money C4 spend on marketing, they don't have James.

45:00And James is a one of one creator. So that's like a completely non-fungible human that you cannot replicate. Okay, that's a huge competitive advantage. We spend a lot of time on branding. I did, you know, 200 nightclub flyers, a thousand nightclub event descriptions throughout my career in nightlife. Like that's a lot of writing copy. So when it comes to designing brand, that's something I reckon I can hang with the big boys. But from the outside, you might not look at me and go, oh, my God, yeah, he's like, all right at doing brand. So, again, the way that I would pull this across is advice that's like widely applicable.

45:41Everybody has a history or a heritage of shit that they've done in their life that has given them a ton of experience that might not immediately be obvious of how it is useful in other areas. But if you think just a little bit, you did this one thing, right? Like you helped your mom and dad run their corner shop on a weekend for all of your childhood until you moved to university at 18. But you really understand operations and logistics and inventory management. Like you really understand it. huge competitive advantage and you just straight up can't get taught that or if you do it's basically someone else who has to go and do what you did so it's like okay as an adult now for 18 years you're gonna have to go and do this thing and um yeah the way that you see the world is very much shaped by those experiences so quick interruption guys have you noticed how a lot of guests that i've been speaking to on this podcast have taken the leap and built something meaningful for themselves they didn't just think about it or make excuses they took a risk and they made it happen.

46:40I don't want to hear about why you can't do it and why your situation is different. It's exactly why I have created the digital playbook for you. This is a step-by-step guide to you building your online presence, your social media following, and ultimately monetizing that following so you can live a life of freedom, both financially and geographically. Well, I guess like the good thing now in your situation is you've, because of the podcast, because of network you've built, you've now got a lot of friends who are pretty switched on in the business world. So you could ask them for a little bit of advice and I'm sure they've pointed you in the right direction.

47:17I mean, look, I'm not going to like flexing my phone book, but if I've got a legal issue when it comes to deal terms we're looking at for Newtonic, if we're part of a raise, I can just like ring Alex Hormosey, like a guy who regularly does deals a hundred times bigger than the one that we're looking at. I'm like, hey, dude, you know, like this blocking rights thing or there's an IPCO-OPCO problem when it comes to board seats. Like, can you just tell me? He's like, oh, we had that problem with blah, blah, blah, blah, blah before. Like, I'm struggling to sleep. I can text Dr. Matthew Walker and be like, yo, I keep waking up during the night.

47:52What should I do? So that bit's cool. You don't want to be this like weird, sceny, sycophant guy, but it's just it's never not cool getting a merry christmas text from jordan peterson like it's going to be or like you know whatever it's it's just fucking it's nice and then when the shit really hits the fan if you've got a real problem you know like you can text somebody who's the best in the world or someone who knows the person that's the best in the world if you go do like i got um uh molds poisoning last year from the house that i was living in so i text huberman i'm like what do i do and he's here's a list of like the five best people on the planet at mycotoxin detox but cheers it's pretty good it's pretty how the hell do you know if you got mold poisoning um with i mean you take blood tests but as with everything the effect of most like uh impact negative impacts on your physiology are the same things it'll be mood dysregulation, cognitive impairment, and fatigue.

49:00Like those are three things that just regularly happen when your body, your immune system is cranking, trying to fight whatever this is. So a lot of the time you'll feel tired and a bit moody and your brain won't work so well, but that covers a huge range of sins, right? It could be anything. It could just be tired. But yeah, mold poisoning is because America builds their buildings out of timber. So it gets wet and hot and wet and hot while it's still just the structure. And that baked organic wet material into the building. And it means that when it gets wet and hot again, it seeps out and lots of people get molded.

49:32I think that's a bit of an issue in Dubai as well. Especially in the summer when there's basically no windows are open and you're breathing in this air conditioned air. If you don't have clean air conditioning ducts, like that can really mess you up. Condensation will suck you. So that needs to be checked frequently. I would say so. I mean, you know, you can act as a weather vane for this. It's like, are you feeling shitty? You don't want to wait until you feel shitty because if you've waited until then, it's a big problem. Piece of advice for anyone that does find out that they've got mold in their house, you can just do a total tox is a great test that is like very, very big.

50:07I don't know if it's available outside of the US, but just such total tox. It's not super cheap, but it's very comprehensive. That'll tell you where your mycotoxins and heavy metals and BPAs and all that shit are at. And then you need to get your house tested. And if it comes back as this has got a good bit of mold in it. You just need to leave. You can't remediate. I mean, you can remediate it, but it's going to take so long to do. Just leave. Your landlord has to let you out of that contract. You say you didn't maintain the property as it should have been. I'm fucking leaving like yesterday.

50:40I'm leaving yesterday. So demand that your rent gets ceased. I lived in a hotel for three months last year in Austin. They kept all of my - Because of that? Yeah. So I was living in a hotel that's a 10 minute, which is where I told you you should have stayed when you were here at Colton House, uh, lived in a hotel for three months in Austin, walked to my house to collect possessions. So I didn't have like, you know, my entire world in the hotel room and, uh, and then would go and work back at the hotel again. So yeah, it was, it was wild in a rough year. God, do you, uh, do you ever think about getting older?

51:14Getting, going to terms with aging? Yeah, this is an interesting one. I thought about this a lot. Um, I don't think that there is a very good archetypal conversation around male aging. So much of it, and quite rightly so, is focused on women aging because a lot of their typically perceived value to the world, rightly or wrongly, is attached to their youth and their beauty because that's tied to fertility. and women feel uncomfortable as they age. And that sucks. But I think that that captures a lot of the conversation around it. And it means, well, like guys age too. And I don't think we really talk about that.

51:59And, you know, me and you are at the age. At least for me, 34, I think was the first time when I actually started to think, oh, I'm getting a bit older. Like that's great. Because all you're doing basically from 18, 19, when you were made of rubber and magic until your mid thirties is just linearly getting better. Everything gets easier. You're more confident. Your health is improving. Your body's better. You feel more resilient to challenges. And then something happens. It's like being at the top of a roller coaster going up and up and up. And then you go like, and you're sort of floating in the air, like, hang on, this isn't getting.

52:37And then it starts to go down and go, oh, fuck. Um, so I experienced that in the past, the past year or so and you know you're about to be 35 right i'll be 35 this year and if it flies by like you felt like yesterday i was 29 30 and then bam i'll be 35 and you kind of feel you know when you you are in the i don't even know when the peak is but when you're kind of up there you just think it'll last forever indestructible yeah yeah yeah i mean how humbling dude how very humbling to realize that you're mortal just like the rest of us yeah but i think as a guy like if you do look after yourself um you can kind of extend that and continue to really make the most of feeling good and looking good for a much longer period of time agreed yeah but you know fucking father time is going to come for us all yeah eventually and uh i don't know i i'm do you get that question a lot when people like when because i know i get it they're like when are you gonna settle down oh the settling down i don't know uh i think maybe people look at you and assume that you're a lothario like more you're spraying it about more than i am so maybe people are sort of worried they think it's a novel question which is like hey when are you gonna stop you know like just fucking running through half of dubai dude and uh i am not convinced i give off the same chad energy anymore i like you know detox myself from that from my 20s and um yeah you got that out your system pretty early i yeah i was a like like fucking early adopter of that why did you why did you stop uh i kind of wanted to grow up a bit um you know i'd been in relationships where i just hadn't been the sort of boyfriend i wanted to be in the past i wasn't fucking abusive or anything but i just wasn't you know i didn't do anything bad but i didn't do anything great yeah and uh i remember there was one one relationship in particular where i look back and i really thought like you weren't i didn't make me proud of myself you know and that affected my self-confidence in a way that other stuff hadn't and i thought you know you can fail at building a business or you can um you know fall short trying a new project or you can you know not be as disciplined in the gym as you might like you know whatever and you go well that that doesn't really speak to my sense of self in the same way as like not being a good partner presuming that you want to be a good partner at some point it's like okay well what point are you going to stop fucking about and actually start to treat the person that you're with well like not just acceptably right but actually really trying to be a good partner and uh yeah i i sort of made a commitment to myself i took a bit of time to uh assess where i'd gone wrong and um i made a commitment to myself i was like you're going to be you're going to try and be a really good partner to the the person you're with imagine if you're you're the guy that makes women just hate men because you were just fucking piece of shit not good that makes me feel you know the idea that you can be part of someone's damaged past or whatever that you're a lesson not a blessing or something is really really uncomfortable to me i'm not saying that you need to make every partner that you ever end up with wistful like you just can't believe that they ever lost you or whatever.

55:56But you do want to be your best self, I think, in that. And the only reason that you... Look, people have got lots of different priorities. And earlier on in your life, you very well may not actually be that fussed about being a good partner, but you don't want to be on your own. So you end up in a relationship with somebody, but they're not your number one or number two or number three priority. They're quite far down the list. Okay, I get that. But presumably, at some point, you actually need to grow up to do that. if you want to have a family at some point, you actually need to train yourself into how to be a good partner.

56:29Yeah. Which can be probably more difficult if you spent more time single and just fucking around. Because you've never had to compromise. You can't just completely shift. No, because you need to learn to prioritize somebody else. You need to learn to put other people first and that's hard it's really tough to learn what it's like to not just care about yourself so i heard this sentence the other day uh sort of describing this pivot in time as one day you just get sick of yourself yeah and i think that kind of describes you've lived for yourself for a really long time and hooray for you you've achieved maybe some of the things or or all of the things that you wanted.

57:14But there's nothing, you know what this is like? There's nothing sadder than seeing the dad of a young family still trying to get all of their validation from the world outside. They feel like they've never been recognized for their genius, like they're unrequited in whatever industry they're in. And they want these people who don't know them to respect them. Meanwhile, there's literally humans inside of your house that think you're an actual superhero. Yeah. Like the bedroom next to you has two kids in that genuinely thinks that you're like a magician or something. And you're still chasing the...

57:53I've seen that a lot. Like there's some guy's Instagram profiles, things they're posting. And then I find out they've got kids at home. And I'm like, why are you behaving like this? I mean, look, the common criticism two guys that aren't married and don't have kids talking about what it's like oh yeah okay fucking i i get it but and maybe we'll eat our words maybe maybe we have kids and nothing slows down and nothing changes but i think i get the sense that's not the sort of dad that i want to be and fuck dads have got to work they've got to grind and do the things but this isn't what we're talking about we're not talking about we're not criticizing dads that work hard and don't have that much time to spend with their kids.

58:32We're talking about dads who still are playing the game, the external validation game from industry or friends or social circles, that like social climber hierarchy thing that you do in your twenties, in your forties and in your fifties, and they haven't let go of it. And they never actually took on the identity of being husband or dad or, you know, fucking son, like caring for, you know, all of this stuff. And again i'm sure i'm gonna be i'm gonna look back and go fuck like how simple you thought it would be um but yeah because i think i always think about this like how how does how does your life change how would all of this change for you like trying to crank out the three a week if you know you you've you've got a partner who you've been fully dedicated to then you got like little ones running around yeah i mean i'm gonna have to soundproof the studio a lot more kids banging and shit outside but um i don't know i feel like that's another that's a good challenge and also you know what you want to try and do i think is align life where you're at with your um sort of sense of self in that you're ready for it right you want kind of life to happen when you're when you're ready and a lot of people say you're never ready to have kids it just sort of happens so fair enough.

59:51But then you also want it to be that operationally, right, the nuts and bolts of your life, you're ready to do it too. So maybe that means financially, you've got a little bit of cash in the bank, or maybe that means if you work for a company or you've got a business that the company you work for has really great paternity leave, or the business that you run, you've actually managed to get an operations manager in so that you're not in the weeds every single day. That to me seems like, huh, I'm actually structurally ready, not just existentially ready, not relationally ready. I've actually got some foundations here that are going to help me be the sort of person I want to be, whether it's husband or carer for parents or father or contributor to society outside of your work or whatever it is.

1:00:38You want those things to kind of come together as best you can. Would you still keep that side of your life private? Because I know you with relationships you are very good at keeping that side of your life private and uh rightly so in my opinion um do you think you'd do the same thing when you start a family i don't know i'll cross that bridge when i come to it again fucking learning to say i don't know more um it's like a there's two things i think one is i want to have a family i'm proud of and I want to be able to talk about it publicly because that's fun and exciting. And presumably my family is going to be a big part of my life.

1:01:22So I want to talk about it. And help other people who are struggling to - In some regard, I think I could. So the point is with that, I think I can do that pseudonymously. I think I don't need to inject myself into it to be able to take some of the learnings from having a family and it not be about me. There's a bit where I want to talk about what my kids did, what my wife did, what we went, you know, that is like a good source of learning. And it's going to be interesting to talk about. It's also like cathartic and good for reflecting on it yourself. But also... there's weird people on the internet and i think once you kind of reveal that digital modesty once you of like take the the coat off and it's like oh this is my underwear that i've got on underneath um it's kind of difficult to reverse that in some ways uh so yeah we'll wait and see speaking of relationships how do you know when you should end one oh god you are asking the wrong guy but i ask because i know you have you've gone through a situation recently i've also gone through a situation recently.

1:02:32I think there's a lot of people out there who are currently in relationships and they really shouldn't be in them, but they're in them because they're either afraid of being alone or they just don't know that there is actually somebody better suited to them out in the world. Look, it's a good question. When should you end a relationship? Because I think a lot of people have a sense of obligation to their partner, even if there's no kids, even if they've not been together that long. One of the vicious things about the human mating system is that when you start to fall in love with somebody, your mind literally cuts off your ability to see other viable mates.

1:03:12So other potential partners aren't that attractive to you. So, and that's adaptive, right? If every time that you were falling in love and about to maybe make a baby, you were still just as eyes wide open scanning the environment for other hot women or other hot guys that wouldn't be very good for pair bonding so that you're then staying together so that you have the kid and it survives right so one lesson is be careful who you let yourself fall in love with you know yeah but that's easier said than done of course it is and it's not something you can do after the fact but you know i'm gonna take you through the timeline be careful who you let yourself fall in love with because would that be a case of maybe seeing some red flags beforehand Exactly.

1:03:54Because if you have rose-colored glasses on, which is what being in love is like, red flags don't look red, right? You've got this hormonal fugue state that's just dropped over you, and you're like in this fever dream, completely besotted with this person. You can no longer see their flaws, the really, really toxic flaws potentially, or the ones that you know spell disaster for this relationship long-term. You can't see them with the same rationality. So, kind of consider from one to two months in to nine months in of this relationship, or maybe a little longer, like 18 months in, I'm going to kind of be an insane person for that period.

1:04:35So I'm going to borrow from now's rationality so that I don't get into that with a person that I shouldn't do. So I think be highly scrutinous sort of early on because you just can't do it when you get in um i think it's much harder for younger people as well like as a young man like the advantage you have when you're older is experience and you've like i would say quite now i'm very good at seeing those red flags early on and then just thinking yeah be careful mike yeah so how do you know when you should end a relationship well i think first off if you're asking yourself that question. That's the first indicator.

1:05:14You know, I don't think if you wake up every day and you think, should I be in this relationship? That should give you some pause. Why is it that your needs aren't being met or that you're not being reassured in the way that you need to so that you actually feel like that's not a question that's on the back of your mind? Like that's a first place to go. I think people feel a degree of obligation, fear, guilt. You know, lots of people are worried about leaving relationships because they don't actually expect that much from life. maybe they didn't have a fantastic example of love at home maybe they didn't have particularly loving parents maybe they didn't see sort of romance maybe they were from a broken home or whatever and um their expectation for what you should get in a relationship is actually really low yeah so they are unusually used to a joyless existence like they're they're able to survive on like a very meager diet of love and reassurement from a partner.

1:06:28And that in many ways you go, oh, that's what a fantastic skill that you can have in business because you can continue to grind away at this thing that doesn't care about you until you make it a success. But no one's going to congratulate you on your deathbed for suffering in silence through a relationship you should have never been in. Right. Marcel Proust says, um, to think that I have wasted my life, that I have spent my best years on a woman who wasn't even my type, who I didn't even love, and who I gave my greatest love to a woman who wasn't even my type. And his point there is that you don't always make the right decisions and you can become committed to somebody who, in retrospect, you realize wasn't right for you.

1:07:15But if you're used to not having that much love or contentment or joy in your life, like you can end up being satisfied with something that's unsatisfactory. Yeah, or you feel as though you don't deserve better. Of course, yeah. So a lot of people fear change and the decision should be not between this and what. Everybody thinks the choice is between this and worse when it comes to breaking up. It's like it's going to get worse. That person is going to move on and they're not going to care and it's going to feel painful to know that they're going to sleep with somebody else. And oh my God, it makes me feel sick.

1:07:55It's like, okay, what if the choice wasn't between this and worse? What if the choice was between this and better? Like, I think that you need to have this faith in yourself that you are the kind of person who can deal with change well. Like, just think about that as a framing. I am the sort of person who can handle change well. well that makes me feel a bit more confident about moving in moving forward with this thing maybe change is actually going to be a good thing for me and you know if nothing else ask us up the question how many hours a week are you spending debating whether this is or is not the right relationship and just look at those hours and realize you'll get those hours back yeah just those hours right forget if you're arguing all of the time or if you're worried about them or if you've got, you know, whatever that's going on.

1:08:46Those hours you'll get back. How much of an improvement in quality of life would that be? Probably quite a lot.

1:08:55But you're basically a person on drugs when you're in love. And you can't. That's why I'm fucked. I like it. I'm scared of it at the same time. That's why I say be careful who you let yourself fall in love with. Because once you're in it, you are in it. and uh would you rather be in a relationship where you love them more or they love you more uh i think look that push and pull pursuer distancer dynamic i think is very juvenile and i noticed it a lot in my 20s and i have tried to never have it again in in relationships um i don't think it's inevitable i think that people who say in a relationship there's always one person who loves the other one more, I think that's cope by people who haven't been able to get into relationships where they find someone who's mature or that they're not mature themselves.

1:09:49I think it's just a total fucking cope. Like you're telling me that it's inevitable that your partner can't love you the way that you love them, assuming that you're the pursuer and they're the distancer. Or if you're the distancer, so, okay, so you're telling me that you're incapable of loving your partner the way that they love you. Like literally leave now and allow them to be with somebody who can love them the way that they do. And, um, yeah, I, it, given the choice between the two, it's always better to be the person that's being pursued than the one that's doing the pursuing. Of course it is because all of the anxious activation that you have, all of the worry, all of the concern, all of the, you know, you don't, it's, it's, it's painful, but I do not think it's gold standard.

1:10:33There's a meme apparently that goes around on TikTok that says, in relationship, the guy always needs to like the girl more than the girl likes the guy. That just sounds like the biggest fucking gaslighting psyop from women ever to try and, it's like either you aim for a relationship to be 100-100, as in that's how much attention that we give to each other, everything, or you're just in a relationship with the wrong person. And you get into a relationship with somebody who can give 50, and you're the sort of person who can give 100. Okay, let them go and be with someone who gives them 50. That'll be nice for them.

1:11:09That'll be good balance. And you can go and find someone who gives you 100 because that is what you deserve. And in most relationships, I think, it's not like you get into a relationship with someone who isn't as prepared to give you what it is that you want and you drop down to their level. You just end up resenting them and feeling bitter about the fact that they don't give you what you give them and you just continue to cycle through until you finally find someone that's able to meet you at your level are you you still in the process of writing something book yeah uh kind of that's been on the back burner um if you've got a ton of health problems you kind of need to focus on those first so as i've been detoxing from mold and gut stuff and america trying to kill me um that's been i noticed that today or the past few days i mean i've not been in america since 2019 and so far i've just been like going around trying to find somewhere healthy to eat yeah there's not a lot of options well you there are options you just need to work hard unfortunately and austin's better than most places so you think that austin's tough or texas generally um you know get to fucking alabama uh and see how you get on yeah there's uh i mean i think one of the the biggest problems is just that there's no like quick things that you can get access to yeah i mean you're stuck with stuff like sweet green flower child i mean it's like in a real pinch you might find a chick-fil-a on a we were there today chick-fil-a is great chick-fil-a is good dude it's elite um what's your thoughts on marriage think you'll do it i should fucking hope so yeah i mean i haven't been through the uh heartache and dry runs and dress rehearsals of all of these previous relationships to not then make it happen properly and um yeah i fully intend on getting married who is somebody you really want to speak to and get on the podcast do you feel at this point now you're at a point where you can reach out to people and they'll come they're pretty much willing to come on or is it still i've still got a lot of work to do to get to that stage i mean you know rogan maybe dax shepherd theo von probably lex

1:13:35like maybe mel robbins or somebody like that like outside of that group of probably travis outside of that group of people there's no one that has a like uno reverse card unlimited guest booking you say it and they'll be there tomorrow type power very few people like everybody at the level that i'm at still has to work to get their guests yeah um you know goggins was nine months of flirtation for me to get him on uh mcconaughey was you know a couple of different faves from different people. Tony Robbins was like maybe 18 months of flirting around and then doing a couple of favors. And then, you know, you get the right person at the right time.

1:14:15And that gets easier as the show gets bigger. But, uh, so the art is basically to not give up and to not be afraid of rejection. Yeah. I mean, a DM costs nothing. Uh, you can always just fire stuff off asking people. Also, it is easier, the bigger that you get because people have maybe seen you before. you know they know the show so um turns out mark zuckerberg's a fan of the show right so when we we reached out to him try and get him on it's like oh mark's actually a fan like well fuck that makes it easier yeah it makes it infinitely easier but a lot of the time uh a lot of the time but some of the time people have shows or youtube channels where the people that they need to collaborate with are not the sort of people that watch yeah so um you know if you have let's say a fitness youtube but it's for really young dudes but the people that you collaborate with like christian guzman and that bratislava chick that you do or whatever like you don't get to accumulate the competitive advantage of people everybody has youtube so when they're bored and they're about their plane's been delayed even their private jet mark zuckerberg's private jets been delayed i bet he gets his phone out and looks at youtube if you can land on his algo and you make him a fan if you need something from Mark Zuckerberg, it's probably going to be at least a couple of percent easier to get it from him.

1:15:36So, um, yeah, what you should try and do a good competitive advantage is make the show that you want to make or produce the content that you want to produce, but also think about trying to produce the sort of content that the people that you want to collaborate with would also consume because you end up with a feedback loop. Does that make sense? Yeah. Um, but yeah, I mean, look, Naval, I still need to bring on the show. I would love to get him on at some point uh rogan is still on the mount rushmore and he said he'll come on but i need to that will be yeah pick the time very carefully yeah you've been on his twice yeah i'm going on when's this going out no idea but yeah you'll probably know in the way he turns him out i'll have been back i'll have been back on a third time by the time this goes out yeah so two weeks today actually and i've spoke about this yesterday but the the whole uh experience of actually going on his show.

1:16:29What was that like?

1:16:33Maybe it's different for other people that are just sort of boundless chill, but it can be a little nerve-wracking in the build-up to going on because... Do you feel that you have the need to perform and deliver at this stage expectations? Well, you don't want to mess up. You want to give your best performance. You're doing the Super Bowl show at halftime. you don't want to miss a note right you this is something that you've worked toward this is your sort of olympic final and uh you don't want to fuck up so in that way there's pressure but also on the flip side a lot of the people that go on especially if they're in the same industry as joe it's like well i'm fucking running the race as well i'm putting the reps in like 150 episodes a year is not nothing and i'm speaking to you know interesting people with difficult ideas and it's a broad range of perspectives and I have to work hard.

1:17:28So, you know, it's maybe you're rolling with a seventh degree black belt. You know, yeah, but I've got, you know, like I've got two stripes on my black belt. So I reckon I can hold my own and maybe, it's not even a competition. It's supposed to be a good, it's more like a dance partner. But yeah, it's a nerve wracking experience in the buildup. And then the sitting down and talking feels unbelievably natural. And then at least in my experience, you sort of come out and you go like, what the fuck did we just talk about? three and a half hours i can't really remember anything you go i guess i'm going to find out tomorrow yeah and uh and then it goes up and you hope for the best yeah if there's if there was any topic that you could instantly just become a fucking wizard at oh that's cool ai i think would be interesting okay because we're just kind of at the advent of it all now and a lot of people are talking about it and um i would just really love to fully understand how these llms and these GPTs are learning and sort of what the trajectory is.

1:18:27And I'd be able to understand the lingo. And I think that would just be useful and cool. And also I do get the sense that AI and interfacing with that kind of technology is a skill that a lot of people are going to need to develop pretty quickly. And I don't know, I feel a little bit like a boomer going on Facebook for the first time. I'm able to work it, but I'm not native to it in the same way as maybe like a generation alpha kid will be you know like it's just oh yeah chat gpt like that's a thing that we have yeah as opposed to it being for us like this fucking magical wizard that lives inside of a chat window and we have we kind of don't we're not naturalized to it yeah do you ever feel like i know some creators are concerned about this ai replacing them like if there becomes like an ai chris williamson that can just somehow somehow outperform the real chris williamson we're building a really, really advanced GPT internally so that we can use it as a research assistant and also as kind of like a directory repository for all of the episodes I've ever done.

1:19:34So it's been trained on all 900 episodes, the full transcript. It's separated out speaker from me. It's looked at like... But did you have that a while ago chatbot thing? We did. So that was like the Chris bot thing, but that was very rough hewn. This would allow me to say on the second episode i did with eric weinstein what was his term for when people don't believe something you say publicly that you do believe in private like what what was that term and it'll be able to pull that out pretty quickly um and we'll also have titles and thumbnails loaded into it so it'll be a copywriting assistant for us to be able to come up with ideas for new copy so um we'll see i mean maybe it'll work maybe it won't it's fucking expensive so i hope it does uh if i get replaced by ai i don't know they see again i don't know and if i need if you blessed me with this insight about fucking knowing how AI is going to work.

1:20:21I get the sense that what GPTs at the moment and AIs are really good at is synthesizing existing information. What they're not very good at is coming up with novel ideas. I'm not aware, and this is a Dworkesh Patel insight, we keep being told how much information AI has absorbed. It's read the entire corpus of human history. It's consumed more information than any one individual agent in the entirety of human history. Okay. Give me one novel idea it's come up with. Just one new thing. It's very good at telling you what has happened and being able to decipher stuff, but it can, by design, it can only draw from what it knows and tell you that.

1:21:06It can't infer new things. It's not creative. If you gave any human on the planet one one millionth of what chat GPT has consumed in terms of content, they would have come up with hundreds of new insights and new ideas. And maybe lots of them would have been useless, but they would have been new and novel. And you haven't, unless I'm speaking out of turn, I don't know if we've seen that from AI. So are we going to listen to a show, a podcast, or watch a YouTube channel, or read a book to be fed reliably predictable insights about stuff? That's literally the way that these GPTs work, is that they work out what the most likely next word is going to be, and they just constantly predictively deploy this sequence, and that's how you end up with the words.

1:22:01I don't know whether that's what we're after. Now, maybe there'll be some step change, and it'll have consumed so much information that it's able to give the churn out novel insights maybe this is a processing problem maybe it's going to become conscious and it's actually maybe maybe maybe but at the moment i am really impressed with what it can do from a research assistant standpoint and like pretty unimpressed with what it can do from a novel insight standpoint yeah because i was thinking about it and i wondered if it could actually give better training and fitness advice than me so someone who's been in the game for a long time and i was like okay let's i pretended that i was an absolute newbie and i was asking it questions so it would tell me you know what program should i do what nutrition program should i follow and it was like good generic advice but it just didn't it didn't know enough about me i didn't know about the body composition it didn't know about like how my body reacts to certain foods or what keeps me motivated or what exercises are going to be most suited for my body.

1:23:04So the interesting thing there is that's just a data problem, right? If you're able to give it more data, it should be able to work that out for you. I guess the other thing, at least at the moment is AI seems to be accurate about 90 % of the time and confidently wrong about 10 % of the time. And you can't distinguish between whether it's the 90 % or the 10%. And it just tells you and you're like, oh yeah, that must be the case. And you go, oh no, no, no, it was just lying. But you ask, that was like the friend that always has an opinion on something and you asked him and he said, yeah, this is how you fix the Donbass region.

1:23:36You go, oh, well, you know, he said it with the same level of certainty that he talked about his actual specialist subject that he does know something about. You go, no, no, no, no, he was bullshitting you. And that is AI a lot at the moment. So yeah, you need like a 10 % scrutiny, 10 % failure rate in the back of your mind whenever you're interacting with it. Well, I would love to see is if you can know exactly to the precise calorie, how many calories you burn and how many calories you consume. So not like it would just somehow know the food that you consume, it will weigh up the exact macros and calories.

1:24:09And then it would kind of tell you that towards the end of the day, what it is that you need to do in order to dial it in. Yeah. Like super, I think that will come at some point. And if I think Brian Johnson said something like, it's like, wouldn't it be good if, instead of your tongue, like, or your brain deciding what it is that you should eat, but more so your organs saying, hey, this is what we need. Please go and eat some of this. But you're also going to have to interject into willpower and, you know, like desire and hunger and stuff there. And to be careful fucking about too much with systems that took millions of years to develop.

1:24:45Are you pretty good with your training and nutrition at the moment? it's all right it takes over like i have other priorities i've been way more obsessive what i would say is i'm very efficient so for including travel time probably less than six hours a week maybe seven hours a week uh i'm able to hold pretty good condition stay strong yeah you were looking pretty vascular and it's warm it's warm here in austin texas but yeah i'm pretty dialed on that and uh i enjoy my training it doesn't take too much willpower out of the main mission, which is working on the show. Where do you see the future of podcasting?

1:25:23I don't think that much is going to change. I think we've seen most of the innovations that are going to come along. We've seen some good stuff, some of which I guess I've contributed to, the advent of a real focus on quality when it comes to video, which I think is... You tried at one point doing the crazy screen. The LED wall, yeah, that was cool. was it too much though do people like you know i mean too much in the same way as you can do like fucking avengers infinity war and the scenes are big and so on like yeah i mean if you're trying to do the notebook but doing it on a green screen with like a battle going on behind you then it's horses for courses is what i'm saying um tell me how much how much does it cost you know when you're doing a cinematic episode what's that fucking putting you back it depends where it is and who it is and what the crew is if we can do it in austin texas um we can get better rates the location is a big part of it but it can be anywhere from fifteen thousand dollars to eighty thousand dollars eighty thousand yeah but then you know we've got multi-day shoots uh on that you know it's like lots of days in a row okay so the the equipment is it stays there exactly because one of the big costs is going to be the setup you know you've got to get a crew in a grip a gaffer a truck that comes in with the c-stands and the power and the cabling and then you've got to get the director of photography and then he dials all of the lighting in then you sit in and you give the location for all this time so you kind of pay expensive setup and a little bit of expensive breakdown at the end so once you've got in there trying to bunch together at least a few shoots.

1:27:04But I mean, I don't know anyone else. I don't think there's really anybody else who shoots on location. I don't know. I mean, this is kind of on location, but it's not like you built this studio yourself. You're going to drop into a good local studio. Very few people, like most of the podcasters who are at the level where they could afford to do it are so big and so busy that they make people come to them. And most of the people who need to go to the guest aren't at the level where they can afford between 15 and 80 grand to drop this thing. So we're in a kind of unique yeah i don't think i've seen anyone do it like no one is varying locations i'm not saying that as a flex i'm not even convinced that it's a good idea but what i do know is it's kind of cool and it means that we basically go on tour like you know a touring comedian or a band or something like that and uh i get to see a lot of america uh i get to have these peak experience um projects that i work on with the team and it's you know i think it shows how much you care and i think people don't they don't appreciate that like i i know because obviously i do it and i know the the costs that are involved with you know having a camera crew having people who are you know editing and doing all of that like it's it's not even the table that's got the uh it's called crafty in the film world which is the table that's got the refreshments on it like that needs to be there and there needs to be insurance and we need to have insurance they need to be insured for that location for that day yeah because if someone has a light drop on their head and it fucking kills them i'm not going to be liable don't need to be they need to be insured and if we're doing it in california there needs to be union rates on top and we need to add 20 on for the you know us 330 like replenancy tax or whatever the fuck it is like there's always bullshit um so yeah i again talking trying to talk like a a professional um i don't want to whine about how difficult it is to make the sausage like turn up and enjoy the meal and i'll deal with the stuff behind the scenes but i appreciate that you kind of see the efforts that i go to for this because i like pretty things i like stuff that looks good i think that effort has utility and beauty has utility like in and of itself i don't think that you should always do the most stripped back like ruthlessly rational approach to doing something because that's like walking into the vatican or whatever not comparing a podcast to the vatican but walking in and going you know you could have made this way smaller you didn't need those fancy like decorations out of the plate maybe it's just kind of like nice to have maybe it's cool to have and maybe you go it's actually a bit gaudy and it's too much you go you might be right but uh glad that you gave it a crack and fair play for experimenting and doing something different.

1:29:44So yeah. Observing social media and the people that you've had on, have you noticed any trends or patterns when it comes to relevancy? Like what is it that makes somebody relevant? And is there a way to maintain relevancy over a long period of time? I mean, you've got a good take on this, right? That you need to keep adapting. Yeah. That you can't kind of keep just churning out the same thing over and over. I think that's a That's probably a pretty strong take. The last thing that you want is to become a meme of yourself. Yeah. You know, if someone asks you a question and they can accurately predict what you're going to say, it's probably a good indication that you need to be reading more or varying what you consume or going back to the drawing board.

1:30:30This isn't to say that you should have like schizophrenic opinions and you always change your mind. But if it's a new topic and you're very predictable on that new topic, I don't know. Have you really thought about it all that much? or have you just kind of adopted this entire group's ideology and worn it as like a onesie? I think what I always find it interesting how, you know, when I was getting onto the scene in 2016, there was a lot of other people who were kind of quite relevant and popular back then, but a lot of them ended up dropping off for maybe a number of different reasons. Maybe their stuff just wasn't interesting anymore.

1:31:08I think a lot of the time it was just becoming a little bit too repetitive and as as you age as you mature there needs to be people like to see some sort of evolution and i think those people have failed to adapt and evolve and just continue to keep doing the same thing over and over again like one of my biggest concerns was you know am i always going to be mike the fitness guy like a big part of my identity in the first couple of years doing youtube was my physique and the way i look i'm like what okay so what happened worst case scenario and it's not even a worst case scenario it's an inevitable scenario i'm not gonna be able to keep this up forever so then what like why are people gonna want to listen to you why they want to tune in so i was like okay i need to diversify i can't be just like the fitness guy that needs to be you said earlier on about getting older as a guy and this is true for both men and women like your looks are a depreciating asset as you age and your mind is an appreciating asset as you age so you should probably invest your self-worth wisely like where is it that you're deriving most of your sense of confidence and self-worth from is it from the thing that you know for certain is going to become less useful over time your appearance outwardly or is it, I can take it from like being a good person.

1:32:30I can take it from, you know, being kind or being patient or being wise, like being insightful or standing up for the little guy, you know, like really doing my research before I comment on a topic. Like all of these things are like, fuck, like that's cool. And you can continue to just accumulate that year after year, decade after decade, and you get to 70 or 80 and you still rule, but you rule in a different way. Not rule because you've got abs, you rule because you've got virtues. Yeah. How are you feeding your brain aside from the podcast? Are you just consuming books? Not really. Or listening to other podcasts?

1:33:02Yeah. So I listen to other shows. Whose favorites? I listen to a lot of Rogan. I think he's got great guest selection. I listen to Lex. I listen to Huberman. The All In podcast is really good. Tech VC investing podcast. Pirate Wires with Mike Solana is great. Some newsy stuff here and there. You'll check in on, I guess it's kind of a bit more youtube channel lee that uh you know kyle kalinsky if i'm listening to people from the left or like maybe a ben shapiro or whatever if i'm listening to people from the right tim dylan theo von it's like varied it's a lot of content it is but i mean you know i don't listen all the time it's like relatively blended but that's one of my one of my biggest frustrations is that i really struggle to find the time now to listen to all the episodes that i want to listen Yeah, I mean, same.

1:33:52I read Substack, read a lot of Substack, so articles. I've found a lot of books are kind of one or two really good insights spread out over 300 pages, and very few of them needed to be as long as they are. And a lot of articles will give you a more synthesized, like condensed takeaway. Books really are drawn out. It's a fucking heavy investment. And in some ways that's good because it allows you to sort of, you know, you're patiently marinating in the insights that you've got. But on the flip side of that, you go, well, I'm just taking a very long time to not learn so much. And maybe there's value in that.

1:34:35There probably is. There's probably a lot that I'm missing by not spending quite so much time with books. But I like Substack articles because they tend to be about between five and 20 minutes long, which is usually about the amount of time I have to read. So I get to start something and finish it in one sitting. And you kind of draw to a close this idea or whatever. And that feels satisfying to me. Do you know, I heard an interesting thing. I've not actually tried it yet. If you read the book, but listen to the audio book at the same time, supposedly it sinks in more. Well, I have heard that as well.

1:35:10I don't know if it's true. But it's kind of like the difference between running on a road and running on a treadmill. that running on a treadmill forces you to keep going or else you get thrown off the back of it. Running on a road, you can slow down a speed up as much as you want. Whereas I guess reading a book whilst listening to the audio allows you to keep moving through the book, regardless of whether you start to get distracted. You're like, you can begin to veer off a little bit and then you get pulled back on because you're still on the treadmill and you don't get thrown out the back. Yeah, because even with films and TV series, I need the subtitle now.

1:35:47I can't deal with it. I hate that. You don't like subtitles? No, I hate it. Why? Well, because I end up, it's like this weird forced reading. Like, hey, I came to watch this movie and I'm having to read it. I'm having to read this movie. Without appreciating the visual message. Yeah, you're not looking at the actual movie. You're just reading. Because make no mistake, you don't look at the characters that much. You read the text and then like glance up and have a little look at what's going on. and then the next text and you you're like bouncing between what's being written and what you're looking at and uh i frankly hate it and i want to defund it i want to get rid of it uh it does my head in speaking of visual masterpieces you've uh you're venturing into the vlogging world a little bit more now yeah yeah how are you finding that oh i love it um i had a conversation with a few guys last year and they said, why is it that you're not showing kind of more stuff that isn't just a conversation?

1:36:46I think it'd be cool for you. I think you'd enjoy it. I think it would get more of your personality across. I think that it would be a nice sort of archive of where you were at in life and not just the ideas of somebody else. And yeah, I found the one guy that I would be prepared to do it with who shoots in a much more sort of artistic, documentarian, cinematography style than most vlogs like hi guys welcome back to the channel today we're going to see if we can you know eat 10 000 calories and burn them off in 24 hours whatever the fuck um i didn't want to do that i wanted it to feel very peaceful and people come and they watch this vlog and it's the cuts are not they're not fast yeah you know we're 20 second scenes 30 second scenes minute long scenes of stuff and then every so often there's a uh editing flat there's like a cinematography flex where he'll do something really really beautiful and then it's back to this nice pace again and um i love it it's it's been it's been cool it's been different um i think i kind of developed a weird a weird kind of imposter syndrome uh from always presenting other people's ideas for so long.

1:37:58You know, I said before, I'm kind of, I feel like I'm obliged to give people a good time when they come on the show. I think part of that is you're always the least important, most boring, stupidest person in the room, right? Every podcast that you do, that's typically, maybe not this one, but like, that's typically the way that it works. And what that means is you maybe aren't so sure about your own level of interestingness, because what you're doing is people are here to hear my guest. And it's taken me a little bit of time to get back to the stage now where I think, oh, okay, I actually, maybe, maybe people do care about the stuff that I've got to say outside of me just being a really elite question asker or idea contributor to someone who is the real talent maybe i can be somebody that sort of stands alone as this and writing has helped with that because it's just you um even if you're repurposing other people's ideas that are in your woods uh solo episodes have helped a lot the q a's i do the lessons episodes i do that catch-ups and then the the vlogging has helped as well so yeah yeah you underestimate how many people tune in to hear your i certainly have you did the you know what always stood out to me when i think you interviewed interviewed patrick bet david and he said there was like three things that makes a good podcast host one of them was uh i think like making the guests feel comfortable then i think another one was uh them wanting to know your opinion on specific topics and i can't remember what the third one maybe questions or something like that yeah well i mean he brought that up and he he basically said uh he kind of not called me out but mentioned people want to hear your opinion i think it's important for you to have an opinion and um i don't disagree and yeah i the problem with having an opinion is there's going to be people who don't agree with your opinion yeah and you're going to get in trouble for it but you if your intention is to get to any appreciable size on the internet there is going to be a significant cohort of people that do not like you and don't think that what you're doing is good and either purposefully or accidentally misjudge the things that you're doing, think that you're a danger, think that you are stupid or useless or evil.

1:40:20And that's not a bug. That's a feature of lots of people exist on the internet and they have different opinions. Those two things, you just put those two things together, there's going to be a lot of people that hate you. So you kind of need to just accept that as the cost of disqualification. It's quite hard to imagine that you are getting that. I would say for platform size, I tend to be, I think I receive like a disproportionately small amount of hate, but that's also because I'm not, for the most part, throwing out gregarious wild ideas. A lot of the time it's about the guest and the guests I'm choosing to bring.

1:40:57Yeah, I think people will just try and get you for the guest selection. I remember when you brought on Dan Bilzerian, and that was a good episode. but then literally before it only been like five or ten minutes and already people were there just to he did get a he went kind of hard on the jews in between in in the interim between me recording it and me releasing it so that was kind of bad timing yeah it went from dan went from my episode to go and do pbd yeah that was very different he could not have been more different i think the word Jew was mentioned once in our entire episode and it was like the most common word said in the entirety of so I go I did that one come out before yeah and then Patrick slipstreamed me and put that one out first which made me look like I just this huge furor he'd be a good yes let's bring him on and not talk about the so uh yeah you're gonna get in trouble but you know also I think if people know that you're trying to be curious you're trying to play this game well you've got your the best interest of curiosity at heart.

1:42:03I don't think that you're going to get in trouble that much. What do you want to be known for?

1:42:09Helping people understand themselves, I think. That's what, in my late 20s and still up to now, there is no instruction manual that comes with the human brain. And a lot of the time we feel like the challenges that we face are a personal curse that we've been bestowed with. Why have I got to deal with that? And if you have enough conversations, you realize that lots of people feel like that and that your unique snowflake pathology that you think is some weird individual challenge that only you face, you realize that actually, like loads of other people feel this too. And well, that makes me feel less alone and it makes me feel less broken and maybe it means that i can fix it and there's some hope from this person and oh my god that person who i respect also does this wow and i just you know that that sense of being seen especially in somebody that you admire or you respect uh or just knowing that you're not alone in whatever it is that you're dealing with both good and bad um perfect example i went to a meetup about 18 months ago and there was a bunch of very successful business people there like at least two billionaires in the room he was in a shed actually at least two billionaires i was by far the poorest person in the room like by a factor of like probably 10 and um it was a post-dinner mastermind type thing and they said hey we can kind of crowdsource this anybody got a question anybody got any problems they're dealing with at the moment.

1:43:47This dude, there's a couple of people down, put his hand in the air and he said, my wife's eight months pregnant and I don't know if I'm going to be a good dad. I was like, well, fuck, this took a left turn, but I'm way more interested now than someone talking about how to maximize EBITDA or like how to get the fucking profit margins up or something. And this guy, you know, felt a lot of shame about the fact that his wife was going through all of these hormonal changes and he didn't feel that different. It's like, I don't know if I'm going to love the kid. Like I'm waiting for this fathering paternal instinct to kick in and it's not here and two of the fathers in the room said i just want to tell you man that's totally normal i felt the same wait three months after the baby's laid on your chest for a little while you're going to be completely transformed don't fear it i thought that i was alone and unique in this as well it's not a problem you'll be fine and this guy's like oh you know he gets he's seen for the first time in this room of people and he was really worried and he didn't tell his wife and he couldn't tell his wife the fuck like that's amazing like you've gifted this guy relief and I think if I can try and achieve that more on the show, that's something that I would value.

1:44:48If somebody did it to me, if I can do that at scale, if I can understand yourself. I think there's a lot of youngsters or just individuals who are looking up to their idol, just assuming that they've got everything figured out and they know how everything works. Everyone's winging it. It is idiots all the way up. That's the lesson that I've learned. I've been around some of the richest, most statusful, most followed, famous people on the planet since moving to America. And no one really knows what they're doing. It is idiots all the way to the top. And if that doesn't give you some relief to just drop your fucking problems and realize that you'll probably figure it out just the way you always have.

1:45:33You are the sort of person that can deal with change. I don't know what will. so yeah like hooray for the people who don't know how to do it and decide to just build the plane as they're flying in any case well keep doing what you're doing man i mean i'm i've learned a lot from your podcast the episodes of guests you've had on and you know every time you get a banger of a guest on like i get gas i'm so happy i'm like no i did it yeah fucking running it back dude well i appreciate you and it's like i said yesterday on the vlog it's it's cool this is a it's a good argument for staying in touch with people for a long while because one of the sad realizations of getting older is that you can't make old friends you don't get to make new old friends you only get to hold on to the ones that you've already got yeah and uh i think it's it's cool that we held on so i appreciate you where can people find you modern wisdom on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you listen, Chris Williamson on YouTube.

1:46:35And if you like these sorts of insights, I do a newsletter that's got 300 ,000 people that read it every Monday, and you can get that at chriswillx.com slash books. And that's a free reading list of 100 books that you should read before you die. Maybe you want to get into reading fiction, there's nonfiction, there's real life stories. It's like, I really curated this list. So you want to get some idea for books, you're a bit of an adult infant, like I was and still am. chris will x.com slash books sign up there and all of the links all shout out to it's funny as well newtonic next day delivery free on amazon prime uk and us newtonic.com slash modern wisdom go yeah boy