I Was Just In Kyiv—I Saw The 'Front Lines Of Democracy Being Defended' From Russia: Alan Armstrong

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1:03Alan Armstrong: Hi, everybody. I'm Brittany Lewis, a breaking news reporter here at Forbes. Joining me now is Senator Alan Armstrong. Senator, thanks so much for joining me. Glad to be on here. Thanks, Brittany. It has been well over four years since Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine, and this war has been the largest and deadliest conflict Europe has seen since World War II. You've recently traveled to Ukraine with a bipartisan group of lawmakers, and the trip came not only after an extremely deadly summer in the conflict, but at a time where Germany blamed Russia for an attempted drone attack at one of its airports.

1:36Alan Armstrong: So to start off the conversation, talk to us a little bit about the trip. Sure. Thanks for having me. It was actually my second trip to Ukraine this year. And I think it's really important for the American people to understand kind of all sides of the issue. and it's important for lawmakers as we think about decisions to be able to see kind of the full picture. Certainly, you know, people like myself, very concerned about financial discipline in our country and making sure that, you know, we are putting America first. But on the other hand, it's really important that we see kind of the front lines of democracy being defended as well and understanding the perils to that in places that it's very real and up front.

2:24So I think really important to see the spirit of the people there, what they're fighting for, what they know they're fighting for, seeing some of the impacts on their lives personally and particularly on their country, and really seeing how, from my perspective, how senseless and barbaric some of the attacks of the Russians have been on, you know, you go to places like Kharkiv and all of the schools are underground. There's no schooling above ground. It's very difficult to see a gas station or a convenience store that hasn't been bombed out. So I'm not just saying, hey, gee, wow, we saw something that's been bombed out.

3:09It's literally almost every convenience store along the highway that's been bombed out indiscriminately, whether there was civilians there or not. And so those are the kind of images that you walk away. We also had the benefit of talking to some of the young people that had been rescued or escaped out of Crimea and had a chance to interview and talk to them directly and hear how their lives have been impacted. But really importantly, what I took away from that was how powerful the propaganda machine and the indoctrination that is going on against the students of places like Crimea, where they're being told and believing, by the way, that Ukraine is really just the remainder of the Nazis and that it's really Russia doing their part to free people from the Nazis.

4:04And so really kind of absurd perspective as we sit here today and think about it. But if you listen to these students, they would tell you, listen, whether you like it or not, that's what's being told. And the majority of the students are believing that. And so because it's all they have to hear, it's in their school systems. You can imagine that if our school systems were all aligned on telling a government propaganda, that's what they're being told. And they're also immediately upon graduating, they're being immediately conscripted into service right and left. And so it was really powerful to hear kind of upfront and personal what's been going on in some of those occupied areas and how disruptive the Russians have been.

4:57And I think really powerful how indiscriminate their attacks have been against civilian structure there. They're not going after military structures. They're going after very much civilian structures there. And that really impressed me.

5:14Alan Armstrong: That bit about the propaganda in schools is really alarming to hear. But when you spoke with Ukrainian officials, what was the sense from them about when this war, from their perspective, is going to end? Because this has been grinding on now for, like I said, well over four years. So is there a sense that there's an opportunity soon for them to pull this over the finish line? The holidays are busy enough. Getting your home ready shouldn't be. From the perfect tree and twinkling lights to festive decor for inside and out, Wayfair has everything you need to get your home holiday ready. Find furniture, hosting essentials, festive serveware, and more all in one place.

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6:32Sign up for your$1 per month trial at shopify.com slash special offer. Yeah, I don't know that I would say that that's how they are seeing things. I think they see it as a defensive effort on their part. And every night while we were there, air sirens going off kind of throughout the night, particularly as you got further east into Arkiv and places further to the east. But even in Kiev, both nights I was there, we dealt with the air raids. And so you realize how much it's really impacting the general public there and really trying to wear their spirit down. And with both ballistic missiles that they have very little to defend, they have really other than our limited amount of interceptors that they have from us, which is not near enough to defend themselves.

7:28They really don't have much in a way of defending themselves against ballistic missiles. and what are now the jet-powered Shaheed drones that are faster than the interceptors that they had built themselves to defend themselves against the typical propeller-driven drones. So I think, you know, it's really having an impact on people's psyche there to just constantly be under that kind of pressure. But I, in both times I was visited there, I was just blown away with how tough-minded and how convicted the people of Ukraine are of defending their democracy as they know it today.

8:11Alan Armstrong: The Lindsey O 'Graham Sanctioning Russia and Iran Act of 2026 was signed into law earlier this month. And the legislation targets Russian officials, financial institutions, as well as the country's energy industry. Do you think that this sanctions package is going to be enough and put enough economic pressure on Russia that the country would eventually capitulate and come to the negotiating table in an attempt to end this war? Well, I think it's an important step. And I think it depends on, you know, exactly how the administration executes that in terms of, you know, its ultimate impact. But I definitely think it's a powerful step.

8:52And it's as things should be where, you know, Congress is providing that power to the president in terms of delivering those sanctions. And so I think that's all very positive. And they would be very powerful. But I can tell you another thing that I think we might misunderstand here. The people of Ukraine are wondering to what degree Americans still stand with them. And so when we send a strong message like that from Congress, I think it's very telling. I can't tell you how many, when I got to meet directly with some of the soldiers and some of the commanders that are involved, they've been at this a long time.

9:39And they are, you know, any normal human being would be extremely wary and kind of wondering whether or not, you know, they can win this. But when we step up and do things like that, it, I think, kind of gives them a fresh breath and kind of reinforces their spirit. And so I think, you know, if nothing, the symbolic message of our Congress coming through when it's hard to get hardly anything passed through, you know, both the House and the Senate today. And but seeing that we are standing unified on that, I think it's a very powerful message. And yes, I think the sanctions, if fully affected, would be very powerful.

10:22Alan Armstrong: And to that point, I know some people have argued, hey, there's a real affordability crisis in America right now. I can barely afford food to put on my table and other necessities. Why are we sending money to Ukraine? What would be your answer to that? Yeah, first of all, it is a great question. and it's exactly the kind of thing that we ought to have a fair debate about in Congress. And so to those folks, I would say, hey, my head's been there before as well. And I'm very financially disciplined when it comes to the way we manage our affairs here in the U.S. So I fully understand that perspective.

11:08But I think when you realize the way that this war is being conducted and you realize how much of these attacks are against civilians, that all they are trying to do, they are not trying to take land. They simply are trying to defend their democracy. And by the way, it's a lot better that that front line is where it is rather than here at home. And I think that's always the way that as Republicans have always thought about it. It's, you know, we really need to show strength in our military. And so I do think that making sure that we're doing what we can to help them win, not us go win the war, but doing what we can to help them.

11:53And I would tell you there's a huge benefit to us learning what an asymmetrical war really looks like, where you've got a major nuclear power like Russia bringing this kind of force against, you know, a much weaker power in terms of their capabilities. but seeing how they have just been in this continuous improvement mode on their drones and on their defense, they've really done an amazing job on that. And we better take note because, and I think it's something that's of huge value to our country that we shouldn't underestimate is understanding how in a continuous improvement model where you're constantly improving your technology and just barely staying ahead of your opponent on technology, That's how a war like that is going to be fought.

12:43And we're really fortunate to be able to have a vantage point on this and really understand. And frankly, being able to test some of our own drone technologies as well. So I would say there's a lot of benefit here to the U.S. in terms of understanding what goes on that front. And again, I think, you know, we need to stand up for democracy. And this is a great place to show that we're doing that.

13:11Alan Armstrong: I know that you think a solution here could be boosting American energy production to help cripple Russia's ability to fund the war. You're shaking your head. Yes. Talk to us about it. Sure. You know, I would just say and a lot of things, you know, in my mind, a lot of things come back to a healthy, strong America. America and our permitting processes here in the U.S. have been crippling us in a way that most Americans don't see. Most Americans don't understand what it's costing us to not be able to build infrastructure. And they say, well, gosh, it only took, you know, six years to get that permitted or only took a decade to get that permitted.

13:52What they don't realize is when that happens and when the litigation costs associated with getting those projects finally done, You never hear about the next investment because nobody in their right mind is going to throw their head into that vice. And so, you know, you realize that a lot of the countries we compete with, their critical infrastructure is owned by the government and built by the government. We are building, we build our critical infrastructure on the backs of capitalism, which means we have to have investment dollars available to do that. And when our permitting systems are telling that money that it's too risky and that you can't count on, even if you do get a permit, you can't count on being able to keep the permit and construct and operate the facilities.

14:38That scares so much investment out of the U.S. and it weakens our country. And it's kind of like a frog in a boiling pot. It just keeps getting worse and worse and worse. and we just kind of keep getting used to it. And it no longer, you know, catches our attention when a project's, you know, we're going to build a bridge and it's going to cost$900 million. And next thing we know, it's going to be three years longer and it's going to be$6 billion. We just kind of get used to hearing those stories over and over and over. And when that's public infrastructure, like in the case of a highway, we're still going to build it.

15:16That money's coming right out of the taxpayers' pockets and right out of consumers' pockets. But when it's private infrastructure like power lines and mines and pipelines, hydropower facilities, when it's those things, that just means higher and higher utility prices. And right now we're screaming about diesel prices because take California where we used to have 23 refineries and now we have six. we keep running ourselves out of business through our permitting processes and not allowing people to expand and build infrastructure that we desperately need. The problem with that is that politics are so short-term.

16:00I come from the business world, first time I've ever been in any kind of political position whatsoever, never even did student government. So this is brand new for me being a senator, but I don't think people really appreciate that politicians can argue for what makes them look good in the short term, and they really don't get rewarded for taking on the longer term big structural issues like we're talking about with permitting reform. But it ultimately is what will keep our country stronger, and it's what will keep your diesel prices down, by the way, is being able to build those pipelines, being able to build the refineries.

16:37And that's what we need to be focused on is long-term solutions, not patchwork fixes that just make the problems worse over time.

16:46Alan Armstrong: Senator, before I let you go, I do want to make a left turn here and ask you a question about the debate that's over. Who's going to finish the remainder of your term? And I know you want to finish it until January. You were sworn into this seat right after then-Senator, now DHS Secretary Mark Wayne Mullen after he was confirmed to be DHS secretary. And recent reporting indicates you want to serve the remainder of the term. Then we have Congressman Kevin Hearn. He's running for the seat. And it's looking like, according to polling, he's going to win. And he's saying if he wins, he wants to be sworn in November.

17:24Alan Armstrong: Why do you want to continue to serve until January? Why do you want to stay on until January? And what do you think of this fight? Yeah, well, to be clear, I don't see it as a fight, frankly. I am in this to do what's best for Oklahoma and for our country. I want to see permitting reform done. It has been my sole and single charge. It is very important. It's very complex. And it's going to take a lot of convincing and a lot of communication and education with both industry as well as with House members. And I'm really interested in making sure that happens. Assure me. Let me assure you. but this isn't a fight from my perspective.

18:04This is a matter of doing what's right, I think, for the state and for the country. And ultimately, you know, Kevin is running for the 120th Congress. This is the 119th Congress, and this is what Governor Stitt asked me to finish. If there's a way to do that in a way that gets Kevin in earlier after the fact, and we can do it legally, As long as we get permitting reform done, that's ultimately what I'm here for. But I don't want to leave with that job half done. And so – but at the end of the day, we've asked the attorney general of Oklahoma to make a ruling on this. And so when people are trying to call it a fight, I don't really see it as a fight.

18:51I see it as something illegally. It needs to be resolved, and I look forward to seeing that done.

18:56Alan Armstrong: And I know that you said I know that was my last question, but I know you said this is your first time even wading into politics. Was the permitting process and permitting reform, was that always top of mind for you? Or did you just not stumble across this issue, but did this come across your desk and you decided, oh, wow, this seems to be at the top of my priority list? No, not at all. And in fact, you know, if you look, you kind of roll the clock back. This is something when I chaired the National Petroleum Council and when I was on the president's National Infrastructure Advisory Council, this has been something I started off in engineering construction.

19:33And I've just seen how bad this has gotten for our country. And so when Governor Stitt first asked me to consider doing this, I was very gainfully employed in doing things that are a lot more fruitful than this. and but I saw it as an opportunity to contribute back to our country and knowing how difficult this issue is and if you haven't been on the front lines of these permitting issues they are wonky they're complicated there's so many layers to them and if you haven't had the benefit of that experience of really understanding what works and what doesn't work in terms of fixing it I fear that we would wind up with a much less impactful bill and so I think I've been able to have a lot of really positive impact on the bill.

20:19That's a bill that we wrote. And then the bill that is now going to be coming out of EPW and E &R committees. And I'm really excited about the strength of that and what that'll do for our country. But if you roll the clock back, Governor Stitt asked me if I would consider doing it. And that part of that reason was he was president of the National Governors Association. And the top thing for governors was getting permitting reform done. And he knew that I've always had this as a, you know, an appetite and something I really think needs to be fixed. And so that made me a candidate for doing that.

20:57I really, if it hadn't have been for an opportunity to bring impact to that, I wouldn't have taken this job. This was purely an opportunity to help bring, you know, use my expertise that I've built over the years in this front and help bring some practical and meaningful solutions to it. And that's what I'm hoping to accomplish.

21:19Alan Armstrong: Senator, I appreciate the time today. Thank you so much for joining me. You're welcome back anytime. All right. Thank you very much, Brittany. Appreciate it.

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