I Was Just In Ukraine—Reports That Putin Is Getting More 'Dangerous' Are True: Eugene Vindman

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1:03Hi, everybody. I'm Brittany Lewis, a breaking news reporter here at Forbes. Joining me now is Congressman Eugene Vindman. Congressman, thank you so much for joining me.

1:12Eugene Vindman: Thanks for having me. I appreciate the conversation today because this comes as the Russia-Ukraine war has been dragging on now for well over four years. It is the deadliest and largest conflict that Europe has seen since World War II. You've recently traveled to Kiev earlier this month with a bipartisan group of lawmakers, so I want to talk about that trip. It came after a particularly deadly summer in the conflict. Both sides have been exchanging attacks for months, and the strikes are extending well past the front lines of the war. So to start off the conversation, what did you see when you were on the ground in Ukraine?

1:47Eugene Vindman: Well, first, this is my 16th trip to Ukraine since the war started. And it's been over four and a half years since the largest conflict in Europe. And I fear that there is no real sign of this conflict terminating in the near term. The Ukrainians are likely to face one of the harshest winters they've had since the start of this war. The Russians are raining down jet-powered drones across the country, attacking places like gas stations and noodle warehouses and grocery stores, just terrorizing the population. The air raid sirens while we were there, again, in the context of 16 trips, we're almost, you know, constant.

2:33Eugene Vindman: The Russians are using terror tactics, so literally sending a couple of drones every couple of hours. So the air raid sirens are constant, terrorizing the population. And they're doing this because they're making zero progress. In fact, they're losing ground in many places on the front line. The Ukrainian armed forces are holding firm, resilient, and the Russians are attempting to terrorize the population into submission. And that's obviously just not going to happen. The Ukrainians are extremely resilient people. They're not going to start fighting because this is about their survival. I know you said it doesn't seem like this is going to be wrapped up anytime soon.

3:17President Trump, he struck a different tone during his address to the United Nations General Assembly this week. He said this, we're working very closely with the leaders of Russia and Ukraine, and we will get that one done. It's going to happen, I think, more quickly than people understand. What do you make of his remark there? And especially in the context of your trip, what would you say to him if you had a one on one with him now?

3:43Eugene Vindman: Well, look, I'll start by saying that the president has been saying this for the better part of 20 months. In fact, he came into office saying that he would end the conflict in 24 hours. And so I would tell the president, if he was standing in front of me, that this war does not end without pressure and significant pressure on the Russians. Right now, all the pressure has been on Ukraine. Ukraine to cede territory, Ukraine to give up economic leverage or stop bombing Russian diesel facilities. The war does not stop without significant pressure on the Russians. That is why last week I was frankly proud to vote for the sanctions, the our side.

4:35Eugene Vindman: And the bottom line for me, when people ask me, what has Congress done in a concrete manner to support? Congress passed the most stringent sanctions on Russia since the war started. And if the president doesn't implement those sanctions in short order, then in the next Congress, where I hope we're going to have a different political situation, we can get the president to put the pressure where it belongs on the Russians. The real cost of a break-in isn't your valuables. It's the feeling that your home stopped being safe. SimpliSafe keeps danger away from your family with three layers of protection.

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5:46Find furniture, hosting essentials, festive serveware, and more all in one place. So you can spend less time getting ready and more time enjoying the season with the people who make it special. Shop Wayfair.com today to make holiday magic at home. Wayfair, every style, every home. Can you talk to us a little bit about what those conversations were like with your colleagues? Because the legislation you're referring to is the Lindsay O. Graham Sanctioning Russia and Iran Act of 2026. It was signed into law last week. It ultimately did pass the Senate and the House. But what were the conversations like on your side and across the aisle?

6:23Eugene Vindman: Well, look, I think ultimately, and I said this, I had a floor speech and I talked about the fact that, you know, there is a complete breakdown of trust between Congress and the administration, certainly Democrats. And in this context, you know, we're trusting the Congress to use that we're trusting the president to use new tariff and sanctions power in the right way. If you read the bill, the bill is very clear on what the objective is. It is to sanction and tariff supporters of Russia, the enablers of this war, in order to bring about a much swifter end to the war. But there is a great deal of concern because this does grant the president some additional authorities that he will misuse that.

7:10Eugene Vindman: We've seen the president misuse the tariff authority already during this first two years of his term. I am laser focused on making sure they're used and implemented the right way. And again, if it doesn't happen between now and the end of this Congress, then it will certainly happen in the next Congress when we apply the pressure of a co-equal branch of government to get him to do that. To your point, the legislation targets Russian officials, financial institutions, and the country's energy industry. Do you think that this sanctions package is going to put enough economic pressure on Putin and Russia to make him either come to the table faster to negotiate or to capitulate completely in an attempt to end the war?

8:01Eugene Vindman: Look, I would say that there's no silver bullet, but these sanctions are a useful measure of applying pressure. So you need pressure, economic pressure on the Russian economy. The Ukrainians are applying that kind of pressure on in what they call they term their own sanctions program on Russian oil and gas production. the United States has to do that on those countries that are enabling and providing support to the Russian economy. It's got to be Ukrainian pressure on the front lines, which they're exerting. I mean, again, going back to my earlier statements, the front line is largely static in just a few areas that Russians are making minimal gains.

8:46Eugene Vindman: The Ukrainians are actually gaining ground in certain areas. That pressure that comes with tens of thousands of Russian casualties every month on the battlefield, all of those things put together are going to be what brings Russia to the negotiating table. And I hope that if that happens over the course of the next six or so months, then 2027 will be a year where we can get to actual legitimate peace negotiations that preserve Ukrainian sovereignty into the future. Is this sanctions package the last measure that the United States is going to take in the Russia-Ukraine war? Is there going to be any further action when it comes to sanctioning Russia further or anything like that to get this war to wrap up sooner?

9:43Eugene Vindman: Look, not, from my perspective, not by a long shot. These sanctions, we're going to want to see them fully implemented. The tariffs, we're going to want to see them fully implemented against the enablers of Russia's wartime economy. But then we are finally, we're learning in the last NDA from last year, we had$400 million appropriated. Only now, almost a year later, are those funds actually being allocated. I would anticipate in the next Congress providing additional monetary support, armed support, providing Ukrainians the much needed ballistic missile defense that they need to protect their cities.

10:29Eugene Vindman: So in the next Congress, I am going to be pushing very vigorously for robust support for Ukraine. Because, again, the way I see this, I served 25 years in the United States Army. I worked at the White House National Security Council. I see this as a U.S. national security measure. Russia, Iran, North Korea, China, they're part of this access of authoritarians that are pushing very aggressively. to return to the law of the jungle where might makes right and these powerful autocratic regimes can change borders at their whim. And that is not the system that the United States has, has up until recently really, fought to preserve in the wake of World War II.

11:18Eugene Vindman: And we have to push back aggressively against this axis of authoritarians that are all really, they're coming together in Ukraine. I mean, you have North Korea that is sending 30 ,000 troops to Ukraine, to Russia, to support Russia in the Ukraine war. You have Iran providing technology, you have China providing dual use technology. All of this is sort of making Ukraine the front line, the battlefield here. And the United States and the West for our own security have to bolster Ukraine and make sure the Ukrainian sovereignty is preserved because we're going to see a cascade if these authoritarians are successful in Ukraine, we're going to see pushes like this in East Asia and potentially one day having to deploy U.S.

12:11troops, U.S.

12:12Eugene Vindman: boots on the ground to defend our interests, whereas right now we're literally providing monetary support and some material I know that President Trump for the past year and a half, about since he's been in office again, he's wondered aloud multiple times, is Putin stringing me along here? Because we know that it's not like Vladimir Putin is someone who comes in good faith and says, yes, here's what I want. I'm willing to negotiate in good faith here. He has this list of demands that Ukraine will just never, never agree to. And this week, Ukrainian President Zelensky, he said he's ready to meet Putin in a trilateral meeting with the United States and Russia, as well as Ukraine.

12:57And he added this. You want to end the war? Sit, speak, end. Do you think that there's ever going to be a time that Putin comes to the table with the United States and Ukraine and engages in a dialogue in good faith?

13:11Eugene Vindman: look it only happens when we we have all those ingredients that i talked about earlier we have the sanctions uh regime that is fully implemented we have ukrainian frontline success um all of these things have to be put together robust support from the u.s and the west all of those things are going to be the pressure that forces russia to the negotiating table and you know Vladimir Putin really has President Trump's number. He's figured out that if he has a well-placed phone call that before the president's ready to make a decision, he can string the U.S. along. He's done that very effectively.

13:49Eugene Vindman: And it's time that this administration and Donald Trump recognize, realize that that is exactly what's happening, that he's being strung along, that Russia is not our friend. It's the EU, Ukraine, and NATO that are our friends and allies. And Putin had a call with Trump earlier this month. President Trump categorized it as a great conversation, said Putin wants to make a deal, and if Zelensky is wanting to make a deal, that'd be very nice. And a reporter said, well, what's the holdup? And then Trump said, the holdup is two people that hate each other. And there's reporting coming out today from the Associated Press that a senior NATO commander said Putin is becoming, quote, increasingly cavalier, dangerous and risk accepting.

14:36During your trip to Ukraine earlier this month, did you see that firsthand? Did you think that and get the sense that Putin is becoming increasingly cavalier, dangerous and risk accepting?

14:49Eugene Vindman: Yeah, I'd say I don't know cavalier, but certainly dangerous and risk accepting, I would say yes. When we were in downtown Kyiv for a conference with a number of senior officials from the US and the EU, there were three Republican senators, four members of the House, including one Republican, so seven members of Congress there. And the Russians were flying drones literally over our head with Ukrainian anti-aircraft fire trying to take them down. That part is cavalier, I think, and totally unacceptable. And so we're also seeing indications that the Russians are engaging in gray zone conflicts across Europe.

15:38Eugene Vindman: And over the summer, there were drone incursions and attempts to bomb aircraft in Germany, in the Baltics. There are some indications. So that sounds like less cavalier and more desperation to me and testing U.S. and NATO resolve. And we have to respond very assertively because the only thing I think that Vladimir Putin and the Russians accept, and we've seen this from the Ukrainians, is strength. When you were in Ukraine and you felt and heard those drones flying overhead, did you get the sense that Russia was trying to send a message to the United States? Did they know officials were in Kyiv meeting with Ukrainian officials?

16:35Or was that a message to Ukraine and US lawmakers happened to be there?

16:40Eugene Vindman: No, I think this was a message to the United States. and it was an attempt to intimidate U.S. lawmakers. And again, I served 25 years in the Army, so Army colonels are hard to intimidate. It just made me mad and more resolute to make sure the sanctions package was passed and that we pushed back very vigorously and assertively against Russia. And that sanctions package was ultimately passed and signed into law. So what specifically are you looking out for next when it comes to the Russia-Ukraine war? Well, look, I would like to see additional ballistic missile interceptors. There are other systems that the Ukrainians have been using effectively to take out these jet-powered drones.

17:32Eugene Vindman: I want to see the release of funds that the U.S. has been withholding and just, you know, greater support for Ukraine and for those NATO countries that are supporting Ukraine. Congressman Vindman, thank you so much for the time today. I appreciate the conversation and you're welcome back anytime. time. If I may, just briefly. So, you know, on the back end of this trip, I actually got some art from young folks in support of Ukraine. And so I want to just show this to you. This is what the kids are drawing because, you know, their country is at war. And ultimately, it's about protecting a free and fair Ukraine so a democracy, a young democracy can continue to endure.

18:29Eugene Vindman: And so I want to thank, you know, those folks that support Ukraine. Heartbreaking. So I appreciate you sharing that. Thank you.

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