This Is The Key Question We Need Answered About Cornell Investigation: Title IX Attorney

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0:48Hi, everybody. I'm Brittany Lewis, a breaking news reporter here at Forbes. Joining me once again is Angela Redock-Wright. She's a Title IX mediator and attorney. Thank you so much for coming back on.

0:57Angela Reddock-Wright: Thank you for having me. Very important topic today. Thank you. In that vein, and before we begin, I do want to warn our viewers that what you and I are about to talk about contains really graphic and disturbing allegations of sexual assault. Last month, a former Cornell student filed a lawsuit against the university, alleging she was gang raped and drugged by members of the Chi-Fi fraternity in October 2024. The suit claims that the school not only failed to prevent the alleged assault from happening or protect her from it, but it then failed to adequately respond to the incident afterwards. The district attorney, since that lawsuit was filed, said he's reopening the investigation into the incident.

1:36And Cornell has released a statement saying that they completed a months long investigation, a Title IX investigation into the incident. And some people have been really critical of Cornell's response in the wake of this allegation. But I do want to zoom out just a little bit and get your perspective here as a Title IX expert. Walk us through what a Title IX investigation typically looks like and entails, especially when it comes to these types of allegations.

2:04Angela Reddock-Wright: So first, just to give our listeners an overview, our watchers, an overview of what Title IX is. So we loosely use the term and what it means specifically, or it applies specifically to colleges and universities and even K-12 schools that receive federal funding. And if they receive federal funding, if there are complaints for harassment, discrimination, or in this instance, you know, sexual assault or rape, alleged rape, then that school has a duty to look at that particular set of claims or complaint from the lens of the Title IX regulations, which are federal regulations. And I always describe them as being very similar to the federal and state regulations that we have that prevent discrimination and harassment in the workplace.

2:57Angela Reddock-Wright: Those fall under our civil rights laws. So similarly, Title IX prevents harassment discrimination in the workplace. And it applies both to employees of a college, school, or university, as well as to students. And in the past, we've traditionally, when we use Title IX, we traditionally think about it in the context of sports. You know, for years, we've been seeking equity in sports among, you know, women and men. And we've seen a lot of activity and developments in that area over the years. So in, I would say, the last five to 10 years, we have seen an escalation of the use of the term Title IX and the requirement of Title IX investigations in the context of these very serious sexual abuse claims and rape claims that we are seeing arise on college campuses throughout the United States.

3:57Angela Reddock-Wright: So that's just to give some context to what it is. But in terms of this case, what's expected in a Title IX investigation, very similar to what we might see in a workplace investigation, steaming from harassment or discrimination, is a duty for the university or the school to conduct an immediate, a thorough, and impartial, meaning not biased, investigation. And with that comes a duty to also give notification to the police and law enforcement, as well as to provide a victim with the support, what we call supportive services or resources to help them and provide support to them while they are, i.e.

4:43Angela Reddock-Wright: counseling, for example, or referral to a health provider while the investigation is ongoing. But there is a duty to conduct an immediate investigation to make sure it's thorough. And that's the big question in this investigation. And to also make sure it's impartial. Traditional home security only alerts you after a break-in. And that's too late. SimpliSafe is changing that. Stop. This is SimpliSafe. Police are on the way. We don't just alert. We help stop crime before it starts. Plan starting around a dollar a day. Right now, get 70 % off your new system with professional monitoring at simplisafe.com slash spotify.

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6:22And according to outlets who investigated documents related to this case, it seems like Jane Doe's feelings on what happened in the immediate aftermath really shifted from the shame and embarrassment to a realization a couple of weeks later that she believed that she was a victim of sexual assault. Then she files a complaint. Then a Title IX investigation is opened. And at that point, I'm curious what happens next, because according to reports, Title IX investigator was in attendance during a interview that Jane Doe had with the police where she said she could say, quote, with 100 percent confidence, she was raped.

7:00So from the perspective of a Title IX investigator, you hear that. Then what happens?

7:07Angela Reddock-Wright: Well, I would consider that first interview with the victim, that initial interview with the victim, a first interview. So if I'm sitting in that room, and especially if I hear a victim say, without a doubt, I feel that I was assaulted, I was abused, I was raped, I definitely want to circle back with that victim for a more extensive, exhaustive interview to try to, you know, give one, give him or her, her in this instance, the opportunity to reflect on, you know, what happened, their memory, and to circle back, whether it be within 24 hours, 48 hours a week, or what have you, or any time, say to that victim, come back any time for us to continue this dialogue.

7:53Angela Reddock-Wright: Because when something traumatic happens like that, or is alleged to happen, our memories, you know, are often, you know, are not at their best at that time. So give that person an opportunity to come back at any time. Then I want to also find out from the victim and others involved, are there any text messages? Are there any emails? Is there any documentary evidence? I want to make sure that in that moment, we are taking all steps we can to make sure that we preserve any potential evidence that will ultimately support and service, getting to the heart of what happened through the investigation.

8:33Angela Reddock-Wright: Then I want to, you know, find out who are all the potential, those potentially involved, interview them, interview any potential witnesses. So really gather the, use this process, the early process to figure who's who, who I should be talking to, what documentary evidence should I first ask to be preserved and then collect and then go for it with an investigation plan that is fully exhaustive, talks to everyone, pulls all the information that's necessary to get to an ultimate determination. In Title IX investigations, the standard is what we call preponderance of the evidence compared to reasonable doubt in criminal cases.

9:16Angela Reddock-Wright: And preponderance of the evidence means based on everyone I've talked to, based on all of the evidence that I've collected, is it more likely than not by 50 plus 1 % that the alleged conduct happened? That's similar to a civil case then, right? So you're not saying, hey, the crime happened without a shadow of a doubt, but more likely than not, it probably happened. Exactly. Exactly. And that's important for those listening in to understand because Because as we continue to talk about this case in the news, it's often sort of, we're talking about the Title IX process, the civil complaint, the civil lawsuit, and the criminal process all as one.

10:02Angela Reddock-Wright: But each of those have different standards and expectations. But at the Title IX level, which, you know, the university is responsible for the Title IX process, not the police, not, you know, the DA's office. This is the university's process. They're held to a standard of, is it more likely than not, based on the information that we have, based on our investigation, by 50 plus 1%, if this conduct happened or not. I want to talk about how extensive or not you think this Title IX investigation was because reports indicate that the university conducted more than 50 interviews with 32 witnesses over the course of several months.

10:46And that's how long the investigation lasted. And the university held at least a dozen hearings regarding the allegations. And Jane Doe, she testified at at least one of the hearings, and she apparently said this, quote, I felt like bait. I felt like lions around me. It was just a totally debilitating place to be in. And then CBS News New York, they got their hands on the documents related to the Title IX investigation. And here are some of the key things that they found. They said that according to the documents that they obtained, Jane Doe said in her Title IX interview that she didn't display, quote, excitement and enthusiasm, which is kind of the basis of consent.

11:25And CBS News also reported Jane Doe said that she told to the men she was tired and didn't want to keep going. And at some points she was given more substances. And those substances that night were alcohol and ketamine. And she said that she whispered to one of the men that she wasn't comfortable. And then apparently here's what some of the accused men told the Title IX investigator. One man said that he asked Jane Doe if he could take ketamine off her body and she gave him permission. Then another one of the men said that he was only in the room for at most five minutes. He didn't see Jane Doe naked and he did not participate in the drugs.

12:04And that same man said that he also asked Jane Doe if she was okay. And she, according to him, responded that she was good. And he said that she didn't seem inebriated at all. What do you make of the findings from that investigation and how long it allegedly went on for? Well, certainly on its face, it seems that Cornell did, obviously did an investigation. You know, when you think about 50 interviews with 32 witnesses, 12 hearings, it appears on its face that Cornell checked all the boxes of what makes

12:42Angela Reddock-Wright: a good investigation for Title IX purposes. But I think as we dig into it and as we learn more about the investigation, the real question is going to be, what did Cornell, what did the investigator do with the information that it had where the victim said, yes, I was drinking before I got to this particular frat house. Yes, I did initially consent to, you know, sexual activity with some of the fraternity members. But she's clearly saying, at one point, I was not in my right mind. I did not know what was going on due to the substances. So I was not able to provide consent, even if the perception is, yes, I am providing consent, but I wasn't in a mental place where I could actually provide legal consent.

13:30And at some point I did say, if not more than one point, that I no longer want to do this. And so that becomes so independent of the 50 interviews, 32 witnesses, 12 hearings, it really boils down to what were the findings of the investigator with those critical facts. And so everything else surrounding that, I won't say that it's not relevant, but it's not relevant in light of when we get to the point of a true question of was there a point at which she was not able to provide consent because of her inauguration, admitted inubiration no matter how it happened and also at the point that she said no i mean we've been at this for years and we now are educated as a society that no means no right so even if she had consented all the way up to whatever point she said no at that point is when it became you know a question of you know whether it amounts to sexual assault sexual abuse or even

14:37Angela Reddock-Wright: rape, as she alleges. Sexual assault is such an issue on college campuses all throughout the country. But I am curious, you were a Title IX investigator. You hear all of this information that we know now that is public now. And let's say this was you back in 2024, 2025, conducting this investigation. You get all of it. What would be your next move? And would it be different than and what we know about what Cornell did. Yeah, to me, the timeline is really critical here, from the moment that the evening started and what the state of affairs were, both for her and the individuals alleged to have been involved, and then trying to piece together that critical point in the timeline when things changed or alleged to have changed.

15:28Because I think that, for me, that's what I would need to sit with as an investigator. At what point did things change? And does the evidence suggest by 50 plus 1 % that at one point from that evening into the early mornings that there was no longer, that one, she was no longer in her right mind to be able to consent, even if the perception is that she consented. And two, was there any point where she said to one or more of the individuals, I don't feel comfortable with this. I don't want to do this anymore. Of course, my investigation would include all the other surrounding circumstances as it appears that Cornell's investigation included, but I would want to see what did the investigator do with that very critical piece of information.

16:17And also, did the investigator have access? I know there were letters drafted from what we understand through the campus police to the cell phone companies to get the cell phone records, but did the investigator actually have access to that information at the time? And if he or she didn't, I would say their investigation should not have closed without that critical and vital information. In this day and age, it's almost impossible to do an investigation without access to cell phone records, telephone phone records, and even social media records. And if that investigation does not clearly include a review of that information or having gotten access to that information, I would say that

17:05Angela Reddock-Wright: that's probably a substantial missing component of the Title IX investigation in this instance. According to some reporting, one of the seven men who was accused of sexual assault, He told Cornell police apparently that he was too intoxicated to consent to sex or any type of activity of that nature. So as a Title IX expert, what do you make of that? I mean, so I think, I mean, when we look at the overall set of facts, it's clear that, and it's unfortunate that, you know, those who are being accused probably were not in their right minds at every moment to fully realize what they were doing or alleged to have been doing or what was going on.

17:50And then those who claim to have been victimized or abused in some way at some point, that the situation was so out of control that, you know, they weren't in their right minds to consent either. So, again, I think that maybe the challenge here in this investigation, and the question is whether the investigator took a step back to say, you know, we understand everyone's alleged to have participated in this in some way and to have consented, but at what point did the dynamics change? At what point did things get so out of control that literally no one, especially the victims in this instance, were really in a place where they could give consent?

18:33And at what point should it have stopped so that everyone could, you know, remain in a place where they were actively giving consent or not giving consent to continue in whatever was happening that night? So I'm not sure if, you know, Cornell was, you know, motivated by or the investigators like, I just need to get this investigation done. We need to get this closed. This is a big deal on campus and we need to put it behind us. If that was part of the motivation and perhaps not every I was dotted or every T was crossed, or if there was, you know, a moment or a pause in the investigation to really look at the timeline, look at who's who, who was giving consent, not giving consent, who was intoxicated and at what levels, and the impact of that in terms of, you know, whether it ultimately violates Cornell's policies and Title IX law.

19:35Angela Reddock-Wright: with respect to the university. I want to get your take on what you make of the reported punishments that these men received, because after the Title IX investigation wrapped up, it seemed like, according to reporting, that they received different tiers of punishments, because two of the men, they were expelled. Two others were suspended and also received disciplinary probations. One of them had already graduated at the time, so he was temporarily barred from campus for a couple of years, and then two of the other men, they were issued no contact orders and, quote, educational modules and reflection papers.

20:11What do you make of the punishments here? Do they fit what we know about what was found in that Title IX investigation? Yeah, well, so the goal in Title IX investigations is not only to conduct an investigation, but it's to reach findings and recommendations, you know, based on what the investigation showed. And also through that investigation to determine, you know, if there should be some form of disciplinary action or punishment based on what was alleged. And the disciplinary action should be commensurate with the allegations and with the findings. So when we look at it through that lens, again, it depends on what the ultimate full findings were and what they based them on.

20:55And it sounds like here part of the investigation or findings suggested, well, the victim herself was somehow involved and gave consent at certain times. And so they measured the discipline against this idea that the victim played some role in this. So from that perspective, I would not say I agree, but that seems to be the basis for why they metered out the discipline in the way that they did. But if the conclusion, if they did not reach the right conclusion, that at some point she did not provide consent or was able to provide consent and that the abuse happened, then arguably the university did not go far enough.

21:41Everyone should have been held accountable.

21:43Angela Reddock-Wright: And then I think there's a question, too, are there others, you know, within the fraternity who were not, you know, looked at more deeply? And should there have been, you know, stronger disciplinary actions for others as well, who may have known, who may have looked and turned a blind eye, but were, you know, somehow privy to what was happening in that fraternity house that night? So, you know, based on its findings, I think Cornell believes it came up with the right disciplinary action. But if they didn't go far enough with that investigation or really challenging themselves to think about whether at some point the conduct went too far and too far in violation of Title IX law and the university's policies, it's definitely arguable that while they did take disciplinary action, that it didn't go far enough.

22:41Cornell said that their Title IX investigation was thorough. But in light of these allegations in that really explosive lawsuit last month, the district attorney is reopening the investigation into the allegations to see if there's a criminal case that should move forward. Is this, when it comes to Title IX, the end of the road here for that investigation? Because that concluded back in 2025, Is there going to be another investigator to reexamine what exactly happened? What do you think from the Title IX perspective is next, if anything? My understanding is Cornell is retaining a new law firm, our outside law firm, to reassess, re-evaluate that prior investigation.

23:26And I would imagine, depending on what they find, you know, after their review, there could be a possibility that Cornell would reopen or extend or expand its initial Title IX investigation.

23:41Angela Reddock-Wright: And again, that's separate from the criminal process. And the college, university is held to a different standard just based on, you know, its obligations under Title IX. So I have a feeling, particularly with the outcry on campus among students, alumni, and then just the broader public, I have a feeling that obviously they're going to take a second look at it, but I have a feeling that there may be a further part of the investigation, particularly if there were any unanswered questions from that prior investigation. Angela Redock-Bright, I always appreciate your expertise here in breaking down the stories.

24:24Thank you so much for your time, and I hope to speak with you again soon.

24:28Angela Reddock-Wright: Thank you. I'm happy to come back on any time. This is such an important issue and topic, and it's important that the broader community really understands, you know, what's going on behind the media soundbites.

24:47Thank you.

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