PR Guru Simon Huck on Money, Branding & Building Lemme to $200M

0:00The following podcast is a Dear Media production. For every episode, we start with an intention. Today's intention is simple. Values create value. Simon Huck has built brands with some of the biggest names in Hollywood. But what fascinates me most isn't the celebrity. It's his PR and marketing genius. In today's episode, you'll learn about the marketing and PR moves he believes are actually worth the money, where Lemmy chose to spend its earliest dollars, and the mindsets that helped him build businesses that people genuinely care about. So as you listen today, just remember that the strongest returns don't always come from chasing the hype.

0:34They come from staying grounded in your values, doing meaningful work, and making the right decisions for the right reasons. From Dear Media, this is Growing Interest. Let's grow. Simon Huck, welcome to the pod. So honored to be here. Grateful, really. I'm so excited to pull you away from my sisters and be able to actually talk shop. I know, because they want to go gossip and they want to go in the trenches, which is, by the way, where I'm also happy to be. You love to be there. But it's nice to rise above. You know, they forget you have a day job, you know, running a company. And they forget that I have a day job running a company.

1:11So I really feel it's huge. I know. I know you're about to go out to Europe with them. I am. And I'm staying back. They're going to be attacking me for not coming. So just have my back out there. Brooks asked me to FaceTime you every single day to be like, look what you're missing. No, literally. Which it was insane. Of course. Of course. I am. When I see you guys on the boat, on the yachts, you don't think I'm not jealous. And Sarah Jane and I had like, because then Brooks left to go like shoot Baywatch. And so it was just Sarah Jane on it. And we were. What a dream. It was a dream. I mean, that is like you two just like shooting the shit.

1:45We were. Witching, brewing. I went to bed every night I went to bed. I was the first one to bed. Oh, I don't. I mean, out there, it's like, it's a hard day. You wake up at noon. Your sisters are also. Yeah, they're also wild. Part creature. they really don't stop i'm like are you not tired no it is insane i don't know what gene i miss but i don't i'm like that with work and they think i'm crazy because like i'll stay up all night working and i love it but they're they're also so proud of you though oh my gosh no they also like they're also like look at you like how does she do it it's like the cutest thing i hear from a from the grapevine like almost they would never tell me and same with grace and too grace and's the best feedback user in terms of like, she'll call me and give me feedback.

2:29And be like, this isn't working for me. It's actually the best to have that. We need, which I'm adding you to the beta right after this. But that's what this conversation is going to be. I'm going to be grilling you and selfishly some in part for Mary and Pip, but I'm sure our listeners will love it. So let's start with Lemmy. Lemmy is projected to surpass 200 million this year. Congrats, by the way. Very proud of you. Thank you. As I'm raising money and trying to figure out where to spend it, I always like to ask, especially successful founders, where do you attribute that growth to? Like in terms of budget, what money was the best spent?

3:02I don't have like a zingy answer for this besides product and people. So product, if your product doesn't deliver on the promise. So in our case, like if a woman is buying us for sleep or a man or anxiety or whatever the need state is and the product doesn't deliver on it, then you have a huge problem. So investing in product is key. So for us, it's R &D, it's science, it's regulatory, it's all the things. And then the second piece is people. So when you're starting and you probably feel it with Mary and Pip, like it's really hard to find talented, experienced people. And so when we started, let me, for example, a lot of our team had two, three, four years experience.

3:42The first thing we did when the business launched is we found a head of quality that had three decades of experience, like people who have been in the industry for a really long time. And those people are expensive. Yeah. So that is a lot of people would say performance marketing or right. Influencer. It's like those are not the things you need to worry about. You need product and people. Wow. That's honestly not what I thought you would say. And that's helpful because it's hard when you can hire a young kid out of college for literally a third of the price of someone with experience. Right. And in the beginning, you also need that person who will work on Saturday and Sundays and they're working all the time.

4:20But the mistakes that can cost you the most and that are detrimental to your business are the mistakes that happen when you have three years experience, four years experience, especially certainly for us, we're an ingestible. So quality and science is just so critical. None of those things can go wrong because at the end of with finance. Like I'm managing your money. This is not something to mess with. And you're regulated. I'm not. I don't want you cutting. I don't want a 21 year old. It becomes really serious. I thought you were going to say something about the partnerships because I'm so curious how those come to be.

4:58Are they expensive? I mean, you guys have partnered with SolidCore, obviously Kylie Cosmetics, Starface. I loved that one. Thank you. Brilliant marketing. And I love seeing completely opposite industries collab in that way, come together. So I want to hear more about how you guys thought about that from the beginning. So Courtney and I run the partnerships and we're very, I'd love to say we like sit in front of like a data tool, but we're very instinctual and vibe wise. So Starface, for example, we had a relationship with the founder. I had a relationship with Julie and I was on Courtney's birthday trip and I was in the gym every morning with Travis, her husband, and he had like a green, a bright green star face on his forehead every single day.

5:41And I thought, this is a rock star wearing like an acne patch. Like, I remember thinking, Julie, you did it. Like you mainstreamed like something that's so hard to do and you did it in this incredible beauty brand. And Lemmy, although we're like a woman's health brand, we're also a beauty adjustable brand. So I started thinking like, what if we did a lilac star face called Julie. She was so into it. She was like, what if we do an exclusive with Target? I spoke to Courtney. She was like, I'm obsessed. Let's do a gummy. Let's cast Alabama Barker to be our like spokesperson in the campaign. Like it was one of those things that just like snowballed, snowballed, snowballed.

6:20And I would say to like these partnerships and collabs, you want to make sure that the company you're doing it with has the same energy and same vibe. totally like we've been I've had a call yesterday on Friday and I was so excited it was with a beverage brand and I got on the phone with their team and I was like this will never work their expectations their values it just isn't we're not seeing the same thing they're not getting it and vice versa I'm sure they felt the same about us so we immediately like the partnership goes no further right and you guys I'm sure have a lot of people reaching out to y 'all companies we do we do We have a lot of inbound and Courtney's super involved in this process.

7:01Like she wants to really understand, like, how are their ingredients? Like if it's skincare, are the ingredients clean? Like she's very methodical and almost like maniacal about it in a way that you want your founder and your co-founder to care. Yeah. We'll get into near, but I feel like no one knows about near the love of my third co-founder. The third and truly like my work husband, your work husband. You've talked about the origin story of Lemmy, but when did Near come into the picture? I feel like we're always hearing about you and Courtney. Yeah, so Near, so I had another business called Judy, which is an emergency preparedness brand that I started like a month and a half before the pandemic.

7:37And Near was an early investor in Judy. And so he had a venture fund. And Near is, first of all, he's the smartest person in the room. And, but you would never know it because he's so humble. He worked at Goldman. He went to Harvard Business School. Like, he worked at McKinsey. See, like he is just as gold plated as they come. But when you speak to him, if I went to Harvard, you would already I already would have dropped the Harvard Harvard sweatshirt T-shirts every day for everyone. Like he's just one of those people who's so humble and works so hard. And he is methodical. So he runs operations, quality, regulatory, legal, finance.

8:15And I run brand, creative, social, influencer, partnership and kind of anything that lives in Courtney's orbit. But so together, we just work so well together. And so Courtney and I were talking about Lemmy. What was it was supposed to be called something else for years? What was it? It was going to be called Good For You. Too long. Good for you. We had packaging. Everything was done. And Courtney called me and she's like, I don't feel it. It's not in my soul. And she's very vibe sensitive. And I said, OK, OK, let's think about it. And we had a meeting with our design agency the next morning. and like in the appendix, there was like six additional names that we hadn't even considered and Lemmy was one of those names.

8:58And Courtney looked at it and we were like, let's just do some labels and like let's print some things on it. And when we did labels at the time, we were launching Lemmy Matcha, Lemmy Chill and Lemmy Focus or at the time they were, it wasn't a play on names. Yeah, good for you. And then the minute we saw Lemmy Focus and Lemmy Chill, we were like, oh. hi and like the trademark was open and so it just it was one of those like serendipitous lucky moments where everything just clicks what i mean can you imagine if it wasn't let me no because let me let me like let me pod right now it's just like everything so good it's so good it's so good and i think i think that is like when i meet with founders because i'm a mentor to a lot of founders and they're so stressed about the font or the name and i'm like it will come it will come it will come.

9:48Like you're going to worry about it, which is good. Like stay worried, but it all comes. It comes to you in the middle of the night or like my dad came up with Mary and Pip because it's a Lord of the Rings reference, of course. I was going to ask you. It's really smart. Oh my gosh. Thank you. And it's like chic. And you'll never forget it. No, Mary and Pip. We could talk for hours and tangents, but near. So you and Courtney were talking about starting. We're starting a business and she had a couple different opportunities of how to start the business. A big CPG brand wanted to incubate it with her.

10:18And then she would have like owned marketing and R &D, but they would have owned the other piece of it. And we decided early on that that was not the right fit. We knew we wanted to do it together because we, I guess I've been an informal advisor to Courtney for over a decade. We kind of bounce ideas off each other. And during COVID, so Nir was an early investor in Judy. And during COVID, Nir and I just kept calling each other with business ideas. He was like, should we do a SPAC? I was like, what's the SPAC? We had so many different ideas that we wanted to do, but I just knew from a values perspective and a vibe perspective and a work ethic, we were the same person.

10:53Like he's up at 530 in the morning. I'm an early bird. Like we are all day. This is before Lemmy. And so I asked Courtney, I said, do you want to meet this person who I've been speaking to for two years? I think he's wonderful. So we set up a Zoom. She was like, let's do an in-person. He flew to LA. I was there already. And Courtney knew. I mean, she's so instinctual. She was like, this is our, this is our third co-founder. I love it. And it's been, we just, the three of us work so well together. So rare. Yeah, it's so, I have started other businesses with other people and they're great, but I, but they were not from a values perspective, like how we wanted to launch the business, the importance of ingredients as a, as a small business, you can cut small corners here and there that no one sees that a consumer may not see, but it was never even an option for Nir or Courtney.

11:43And that to me is just more important. Is that what you look for most in new hires from no matter what level they are? Like values? Yeah. It sounds so founder cringe where you're like, but values, but values show up in everything that you do. And it doesn't matter in the beginning as much as when things are really bad and bad comes all the time. Scary comes all the time. Anxiety comes all the time. And that's when the person's values show up. And I had a previous business where things were really tough. and I started to see characteristics that like didn't align with my values. And it's scary.

12:17It's like, it's, in some ways, it's even more intimate than your romantic partner. 100%. Because you're spending hours on - All of your money. All of your money, your future. In some cases, your kids are involved. You know, it's the future of your, it's just such a big decision. And so I do get scared when someone jumps into it because they had a coffee date. Yeah, totally. The idea is zinging. And I'm like, date them. Make sure that they are your person. Yeah, slow down. That's what I did with Kara, who I brought on like a year after starting Mary and Pip. We literally have been best friends for years and years.

12:55Yeah. And we had hundreds of conversations that were some of the hardest conversations as friends just about what our partnership would look like. And like that was so important so we could see how we work together. Can't imagine. And when you find someone, you really feel lucky. You must feel lucky for Kara that you have her. so grateful. So great you have her. It's also as a solo founder, I don't know how they do it. I don't know how a solo founder does it. So much of this is the anxiety of the unknown and being able to call Kara in this case or Nir or Courtney and to be like, what is this? Is this okay?

13:26How's this? How's your gut feeling? Yeah. And then like spending, even on vacation, like I, I'm, there's not a day that goes by that I'm not speaking. I mean, we're on a, I'm on a group chat with Courtney and Nir. So we speak every day, but Nir and I are on the phone for at least an hour every single day. It's the best. It doesn't even feel like work when you enjoy talking to the person. No, I'm in love with him. No, literally. And I love his husband. Thinking about the people listening to this convo, because you say you mentor a lot of founders. I'm sure a lot of people come to you for your PR and marketing genius.

13:54What is the one piece of advice that you would give someone starting out? You mentioned don't put the cart before the horse. Yeah. But when it comes to maybe PR and marketing. So I think a lot of people focus specifically because my association with the Kardashian family and just with like influencers and what I do at command, there's this huge focus on celebrity and influencer. And yes, that is important. But like, think of how many PR boxes that you get every single day. Just, I mean, yeah, too many overwhelming, overwhelming. I am literally on the G list. Like I shouldn't even I'm not even a content creator.

14:27And I'm on average getting, let's say, I don't even want the boxes. OK, there's like 10 a week. Right. Some of them I don't even open or if I do open them, like, you know, I'm doing a haphazard unboxing and it's such a waste. So I tell founders, like, stop worrying about like Alex Earl or like Kourtney Kardashian. Like, you're not going to be able to make an impact by sending them product. Focus on small content creators. Like in the first six months of Lemmy, I would sit there. We call it social listening now at Lemmy, but at the time I just was stalking. And I would look for creators who had sub 5 ,000 followers on TikTok.

15:02They were complaining about sleep. I would send them, let me sleep. If they're complaining about anxiety, I would send them, let me chill. If they were complaining about their libido, I'd send them, let me play. The way that TikTok, specifically TikTok as an algorithm works, you don't need to go after these huge macro creators. And I think founders become obsessed, some founders become obsessed with reaching the star, reaching the big influencer. Focus on getting your product to people who are going to connect with it, resonate with it, and talk about it, period. That should be your sole goal.

15:32I mean, and you guys make bank on TikTok. We do. Like that is one of your biggest. So we like separate. We consider like just regular TikTok, like are always on TikTok. We're the number one most engaged brand in our category. And then TikTok shop, we have an incredible strategy there and have been very successful. Is there a like formula to it, to the strategy? So for us, we look for creators who are genuinely interested about the product. And the TikTok shop creators are teaching you how to talk about your product. They're brilliant. It's so smart. They are the best salespeople and surrogates and ambassadors for your brand.

16:14Like, don't worry about these big creators who are throwing your PR boxes out. Right. Focus on these young creators who are quite literally selling your product for you. It's brilliant. And they just get a commish? Yeah. So it's traditional affiliate marketing. Love. So you don't even have to pay. Like some of these bigger creators, you would have to pay half a million bucks just to get them to post. And there's something really like incredible. But what we work with, we've been working with TikTok shop creators for over a year and a half, two years. So some of them started as smaller creators.

16:44Now they're larger creators. But you've built like a connect. I'm texting them. Stop. On the weekend. I love it. I will spend a Sunday just DMing TikTok shop creators to be like, hey, we'd love you to join our Discord. support like I think as a founder you should be involved in like every in where you're comfortable but in aspects like this where you're actually reaching out like get involved totally the creator like loves to hear from me they're like is this you I'm like it is me yeah hey I'm bored it's 9 a.m my husband's sleeping so I'm stalking you I love it okay so I feel like a lot of brands we've talked a lot about it, are overthinking certain areas of marketing, especially focusing on big creators.

17:24What do you think is in store that's maybe on the horizon that you're looking at as an expert marketer for brands? So when I started in like 2005, 2006, I worked in PR and it was all about attention, attention. How do we get their attention? And now as I think about marketing, It's really not about attention. Like the attention is so fragmented. There's so many different TV shows and social media platforms. For us at Lemmy, we focus on trust and credibility. So how do we like bring our science forward? How do we build a community that like really resonates with what we're talking about? How do we talk about like the clinical evidence of our formulation without boring them?

18:05So like what is the way to do it that establishes trust and credibility? And TikTok Shop has been one of those like examples for us. You would think it's the opposite. The TikTok shop would like lessen credibility almost because there's so many people just trying to sell on TikTok. You know what I mean? But do you have people talk about the science? Like do you give them talking points? Yeah, so you can do longer form content. And then also just our regular TikTok too and all of our social media. We're also just talking about science a lot more. And I think giving, consumers are just so savvy now.

18:38Totally. So I think when I, Emma Chamberlain did an interview last week and she was talking about the like influencer economy and there potentially being a bit of a bubble and it bursting. And I think the reason she feels that way and I agree with her is that every single day when I'm on my For You page or on Instagram, I feel like I'm being sold to by my favorite content creator. It's like, and I now know, I know especially, but everyone knows, like my friends from college know, like people who are not in the mix are aware that like this is all just a big game. Game. To sell, yeah. To sell. And so that has eroded trust and credibility in such a big way that you almost feel like, oh, God, I know how the sauce is being made and they're selling me another product and they just went on that brand trip with that.

19:24So consumers are so sophisticated, like you cannot screw them over. They see you. Yeah. Which is why leading with credibility, why the rise of the intellectual or credible influencer is happening. Exactly. People are so jaded by being sold to. Oh, I'm the most jaded. Literally. When someone recommends something, I'm like, really? Yeah, no. Which is why the community-driven brands, I think, do so well, because you're always going to take advice from your best friend if they tell you to try Lemmy or tell you to download this app. You're going to listen to your sister or your best friend or your inner circle over an influencer random online any day of the week.

20:02Like some of the videos that Courtney loves the most are when they're like, I don't want to give it to the Kardashians. and I have never watched the show. And I don't even know if I like Courtney, but let me sleep work. Like those are the videos where you're immediately like, okay, I actually appreciate the raw honesty. Yes, totally. Okay, last PR question because I am about to raise money for Mary and Pip and I feel like every time I open my Insta or any news article is another company just did a huge flashy raise. And it doesn't matter who it is, like everyone posts about their raise. and like, I feel like everyone's getting PR and press articles about it.

20:41Yeah. What is your opinion about that? Because I personally like raising money isn't necessarily something to celebrate. You know, you're diluting yourself. Yeah. It's not necessarily the barometer of success. And like how many companies have done like fancy raise press releases and then and then gone under like, of course, it's not. So I guess I have I have a strong opinion about this. So So yes, it is important to do one or two of these like alerts. And I think it's good because for you, for example, like someone may see it, a potential partner may see it that may, like, I have a friend who was launching a haircare brand.

21:17She did one of those like traditional, like alerts that was in the wall street journal, like so-and-so raised this much, this investor, this, this investor was involved, this celebrity was involved and a Walmart buyer cold called her the next day because they read that article. I think where I have a problem is when I am researching a product or service and all I find is information on their financials and their, and their race. Like, why am I, why can I not find any, what is, what is this product? Like, why do I only know about the series A, the seed round, Serena Williams invest? Like I know everything about the financials, but I can't find anything about the product.

21:52And I think sometimes founders, like we're looking for these easy wins and you get excited. Like it's, it feels good that you raise this money and it's so hard to raise it and close it. But I would caution founders to not spend too much of their time on it. It should all be about the product. All be, okay. That makes sense. So like maybe a couple, I like how you say alerts instead of like press. Sorry, it's so like old school. It's so good. No, I'm a boomer. It's so, you're not a boomer. Are you? No, no, I'm 42. No, you're literally so young. You're Gen Z. A boomer would be my parents. Sorry for even assuming.

22:33mean. So rude. I deserve a slap on the wrist for that one. Okay, that makes sense. So a couple alerts, but nothing too crazy. Yeah. Don't get lost in the sauce. Don't get lost in the sauce. I love it. Okay. Pivoting from Lemmy a little bit to your relationship with money, because I think it's so important to talk about where you came from. Did you grow up with money? You're obviously extremely successful. Yeah. Do you still check your bank account every day? Like how healthy is your relationship with money compared to how you grew up? So I grew up, I thought I grew up like upper middle class. I thought like from where I was from, I grew up in Ottawa and Canada.

23:10And I think my parents made me believe that we had like all these privileges. But then as I got older, I learned that they just made it seem like things were really easy. Like we would take the trip to Disney World. But then when I go back and double click, I realized that they were stretching, you know, and they were just doing everything they could to make us have a really nice life. So I grew up middle class, but I was very aware that going to a restaurant was a special treat and all the things. So when I came to New York and I started having financial success, it was really exciting. It was like very, I was very gratifying.

23:41And I had, I would say that I have an interesting relationship with money. I think that money should be spent. It should be free flowing. I believe in experiences. Like if you have the money to pick up the check for your friends, pick up the goddamn check. Yeah. Take your friends on the trip. Treat your partner or your loved one to the the fuck you gift. Yeah. Like I think Brooks is like this, too, in that way. Like she loves to treat her friends and her family. And I think it's such an amazing quality. And the more that I spend, the more comes my way. Business wise, I'm very frugal. I think people let me think that I'm quite cheap.

24:18But personally, I am a free flower. Yes. Not necessarily of buying things, but experiences, trips. Yeah. All like, yes. Yeah. All out. Do what you can. Totally. And treating your friend like you cannot put a price on those experiences with your friends. And it does come back. And it's like and I'm sure you have this, too. Like some of the wealthiest people I know have like split the check and not saying don't freak out, people. You don't always have to pick up the check. But I just think to myself, I cannot believe you're splitting. I mean, if you have money, then do it. Do you know what I mean?