The Money Conversations Everyone Should Be Having | Jason Tartick

0:00The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Hey, y 'all. Welcome to Growing Interest. Today's intention is simple. Transparency. Jason Tartick has made a career out of asking people the money questions we're usually taught not to ask. But today, I'm turning the mic on him. Jason has lived a few very different financial lives. Corporate banker, reality TV personality, entrepreneur, investor, author, podcast host, and talent agency founder. Today, he gets candid about leaving the security and credibility of banking for The Bachelorette, how his own relationship with money has evolved and his career and income have changed, and the business he's building behind the scenes.

0:36Jason Tardik is known for asking the questions that people are too afraid to ask about money. So today is not about finding all of the right financial answers, but it's about being confident enough to ask the question. Before we listen, I want you to think of one question that you've been avoiding as it relates to money, whether it be with a partner, with a friend, with an employer, or even just with yourself. Hold on to that. Let's grow.

1:05Hello, Jason. Welcome to Growing Interest. Thank you so much for having me, Mary. How are you? So good. How are you? We're about to get into it. We're getting into it. We kind of live parallel lives, which is why I was super excited for this conversation. You left Wall Street for reality TV, Mr. Bachelor. And also now you're building businesses, living that multi-hyphenate life. So starting with your time, you know, on Wall Street, I am curious because I struggled, especially making that leap to reality TV with the fear of losing my credibility. What was that like from a male's perspective? I mean, you were like a quintessential finance bro.

1:38I'm so curious what was going through your head. There's some stigmas about the bro I was, some that I'm not. You know what I mean? So, but I was, what I was, was a yes guy. I was a hard worker. I was up early. I was out late. I was doing whatever it took to make it in the banking finance world. It wasn't necessarily Wall Street, but I graduated right after the crisis and every single bank was letting people go by the second. I mean, the financial world turned upside down and that's when I'm graduating. And as you know, you try to get into these investment bank rotational programs and you try to get into a bank that's going to invest in their up and comers.

2:13And this is when every single banking institution was getting absolutely clobbered. Their earnings were getting crushed. It was just blood on the street. So finding one was next to impossible during this time. And my parents had taken the corporate grind and were in Dallas and I just didn't want to go there. I wanted to stay somewhere up here. So I found a rotational program with KeyBank, smaller regional bank. They're like 17th largest bank in the country at the time. Rotate through the lines of business and then just kept, it's kind of like a rocket ship on my back. I just kept getting promoted and promoted and promoted and promoted, which was great.

2:47The first book I wrote was called The Restart Roadmap, where I do talk a little bit about the fact when you keep chasing the yes and you keep living your entire identity at work for the expectations of everybody else around you, you totally lose connection with yourself. Right. So the suit I wore and how I looked and how I talked and how I acted in meetings. I was what everyone else needed me to be. And it worked and I got promoted all until in the first chapter, I have this massive panic attack at a huge meeting, have to leave, pass out, hold situation. Terrible. What I quickly learned there is like, I had no connection with myself because I was trying to connect to what everyone else wanted.

3:29So that industry, it'll beat you up, it'll burn you up. But I was working my way through that ladder. I was a 29 at the time and I got a promotion internally to go from New York to Seattle. And this is back in 2017. For anyone that's listening, I share numbers very openly. And I do that in a way because I think education through numbers and my transparency allows us to learn and then make different career decisions. So I'm big on financial transparency for education, not for boosting or bragging. But 29, they offered me like 110K signing bonus. It was like a 165 base. and then you can earn up to like three to four times your base.

4:04Wait, wait, wait. 110K bonus? Signing bonus. Signing bonus. That is insane. Internal position, which is cool. Like usually that's when you leave, right? So it was 110 signing bonus to take it and then 165 base. And then based on your performance, you could do like three, four times your base. I was 29, 2017. So I'm like, let's go. That's insane. I made it. I never leave. I did it. Went out to Seattle and my gosh, It was a month later that I got called to go on ABC The Bachelorette and things changed a little bit from there. Oh my gosh. Okay. I have so many questions. Starting with, who put you up for The Bachelorette?

4:43So when you're in banking, right, you do a lot for your community and the different areas. And there was a charity auction that was called the Gilda's Club Charity Auction. Gilda Radner is a famous SNL comedian who died abruptly of ovarian cancer. And so she's got an unbelievable non-for-profit that serves families undergoing cancer treatment. So they have this bachelor auction. They get 30 guys, all different ages and backgrounds. You get up in a tux and you are auctioned off for a date at like a black tie. I was like, I'm going to, let's do this. So I came out to old time rock and roll. I started like stripping a little bit.

5:19I got auctioned off for the most amount that night. my buddy was right there with me and he called me and he's like I got something to tell you we gotta talk and I was like wait I got something to tell you and he said something like does what you have to tell me have to do with the rose I was like oh my god so both of us had videos submitted from that night oh my gosh there's about 3 ,500 people at this event and um we both got a call from ABC because of that event and so we both went through the process that's how that's how it all Wow. Well, that's nice. You had a buddy at the bank that was doing it with you.

5:54He wasn't. This is like one of my best friends. Just one of your best friends still. We graduated together. We got our MBAs together. Okay, huge. He worked in a different space. Okay. Actually, ironically enough, his wedding is next weekend. Okay, wow. But we went through the whole process together. I ended up going on. He didn't go on. Okay. Yeah, that's how it started. You mentioned MBA. Do you think for people listening that the MBA is still worth it? I mean, when I got my MBA, I literally was so pissed about the cost of it. that I put it on my LinkedIn. I think I wrote overpriced MBA. And I went to Simon School, University of Rochester.

6:26It's like a top 30, 35 school. I just didn't see any value in it as far as how it actually led to success within the company that I worked for. I think application of what I learned in my MBA outside of the classroom was very minimal. I think the biggest takeaway for me was that I could say I had it. when I said I had it, it usually came with credibility and that I built a network there. But other than that, I didn't really see it. Where would I go get my MBA today in if I had the chance? All specialized in like, I would just want a full AI MBA. Something we talked about when you came to my show.

7:05But to me, I think that is going to separate society tremendously. Like we can do whatever we want to fight it. There's a lot of fear associated with it, rightfully so. There needs to be a lot of change and regulation connected to it. But I think if we continue to push it away, ignore it and disassociate with it, you're going to just be so severely left behind because you can't replace a human. But AI is replacing a lot right now. And if I'd want an MBA, I just want an MBA in AI. Where would you start for someone who is scared of entering the AI field or not even entering it, but scared to even kind of like ostrich effects, scared to look at it, scared to use it?

7:44Is there any other like very easy ways that you've started by incorporating AI? I think even like you, you do a lot of financial education, right? What I found in financial education is there's so much fear around the subject matter because most people don't know about it because we were never taught anything about it. Then we certainly weren't taught how to talk about it. So imagine we have to talk about something that we weren't taught about. We don't know how to talk about it. And then the second we do, it's usually weaponized against us and has this like negative icky connotation. Finance bros have deserved that title.

8:15There's a lot of douchebags out there. But then there's also like, it's also like, there's so much weaponization of money and finance and all these discussions. So I like to break it down in like simple analogies, not even like start with granola, but just a simple analogy. And for anyone that's reluctant to start using AI, just ask them like, where's your next trip? And this isn't to be facetious or a jerk, but it's like, where's your next trip? Okay, my next trip's in Florida. Okay, how far is Florida from here? It's eight hours. How are you getting there? I'm going to take a flight. Okay. One stops or two stops?

8:45I would never take two stops. Okay. Layover or direct? Direct. I would never take a layover. Okay. The equivalent of you not using AI today is probably like, I don't want to say walking. I won't even say taking a bike. I'm going to say it's like you trying to find a bus route to get you to Florida where you can take a direct flight. I love that analogy. You know, I don't want to be as drastic as being like, oh, it's like you walking to Florida. It's not there yet. But that is how behind you will be without adopting it. And I think once it clicks with people from a psychology standpoint, like, oh my God, it's like the modern day of flying.

9:21Like I have to do it. I'm not going to walk there or take a bus or drive. People start to think like, okay, I'll try it. And I think the first step is just like use an LLM to supplement everything you used to on Google. Like if you used to go to Google to search it, start using any form. It could be chat. It could be claw. It could be whatever. Just start with that. My podcast, we talk about granola, which is simple. you download the app, you hit the plus sign when you want to record a meeting, you stop, it summarizes it. Like anyone could do that. Game changer. Granola has changed my entire life.

9:49Like I want every conversation to be recorded with Granola because it's crazy how much you can learn from the questions you ask. And it's basically an AI note taker for those listening who don't know, but you download the app, you press record. Anytime you're with anyone that's an important meeting on the go, even me and my best friend, Kara, who's building this business with me, when we're walking on the West Side Highway, we record granola and we just start brainstorming. It's unbelievable. It's crazy. You want to challenge people to be like, okay, just try it. Use granola for one meeting. Next meeting, do your handwritten notes or type them up.

10:20See which one's better. It's going to be granola. Do it for yourself. And then you put it into AI. You say, what are my takeaways? What are my next steps? Draft an email. It's like once you start and where I thought you were going with the direct flight, which I love that analogy, by the way, it's so true. But where I thought you were going was what you said is just start using LLMs instead, like you're talking to a friend. I feel like the more people get used to it and with financial education to the analogy point, if you only think in shopping, then ask AI, explain the stock market, like for someone who loves shopping or fashion, or if you love sports and you don't understand finance or any topic, AI even explain AI, like in a sports analogy, like you can use it for so many personal education and personal growth aspects that I think we sleep on.

11:06In terms of investing, because you're Mr. Finance, are you investing thematically in anything AI related? Yes, I'll answer that in one second. But when people do incorporate AI into the lifestyle, I think for everyone, they have this light bulb moment. And I just want to make sure I share this because I'll never forget it. This light bulb moment is I saw someone online doing a very quick reel on how you can use a a clot extension. So I was like, okay, let's try it out. It took me two seconds to put in this clot extension. I then fed the clot extension with my Gmail open. I said, unsubscribe me to every single promotional email.

11:42And it writes this thing to me that just says, do we have access to go into your Gmail and do that? We're going to do that. I approve the plan. And all of a sudden, I'm sitting back and I'm watching some robot go through and do all this. I leave, I get a cup of I can stop it at any point. I leave, I get a cup of coffee. I go do my thing. It's done. And that was the light bulb moment. I'm like, oh my God, that was just for unsubscribing the emails. Wait, what's coming? Crazy. As far as investing, I'll give you my take on investing in general and then I'll connect it to the AI. I learned quickly, and I'm sure like you, I can manage my portfolio.

12:17I can manage it daily. I can manage it actively. I can do all of that. I quickly realized I don't have the time for that. I then realized, what is the return on my portfolio? Okay, on a good year, it's gonna be like 15%. If I get 20 % on a portfolio, oh my God, grand slam. On a bad year, let's scale 3 % or even negative. I then started to realize what type of return was I getting when I invested my time into other businesses. And the return was so much greater than I could actually get on investing in my portfolio day to day. And that's where I was like, I really need a good partner. Then I started learning about accredited investors, right?

12:53So anyone that makes$200 ,000 by himself,$300 ,000 in their partnership or has a net worth over a million dollars, you are highly considered an accredited investor. And it just gives you so many different tools and access. And so I then knocked on the door of a high net worth group at UBS. And I learned more about what their requirements were to be in their group. And I didn't have those requirements at the time. But I put a pitch to them as to why they should accept me. I was like, well, here's my earnings now. And here's my growth potential. As a client. As a client. Amazing. And here's what's coming.

13:26And if you look in 10 years from now, I will very much surpass your requirements. And they're like, and then I told them about like social media and stuff. And they're like, oh my God, we love it. You're in. Doing that allowed me to get access to different opportunities and alternative investments that like your retail investor wouldn't get. And so one of those was a fund called the G Squared Fund. It's through G Squared Capital Partners. and all the big AI players before any of them had any conversations about being public. Right. We're all part of their portfolio. And so the minimum investment into that was 250 at the time.

14:02And that's returned like two and a half X from when I did it. So that was a good concentration, a good win in that space. So that's incredible. Oh my gosh. Well, congratulations on, you know, pushing yourself into that UVS room. I mean, it's huge because I feel like a lot of people listening don't have access to those, you know, private investments or aren't necessarily accredited investors. And the beauty of the market is there's, you know, tens of thousands of ETFs out there. Do you have any favorites that have exposure to AI? I mean, so for me, like what I always did was always top of my, uh, my grandfather is like, go for the lowest cost index fund or ETF that you can find, right?

14:41I mean, you look at some of these expense ratios, it's crazy. And if you look at like any type of Vanguard index fund, like a VOO or something as basic as an SPY. I think for most people, when you hear finance and then they say investing, they're jumping the gun because they might not even be in a position to invest. And so before you even look at an ETF or an index fund, you got to really understand what your personal situation is. And I think you start with debt, what type of bad debt do you have? Once you've put that under control, what's your emergency savings plan look like? Once you've put that under control, what are your retirement vehicles and pre-tax strategies look like?

15:18Once you put that under control, how are you managing your budget? Once you've done all that, then what does your excess cash flow look like? Once you've done that, do you understand your risk? Like going into a casino, you go in with 10 friends, one person goes for the free drink, one person puts a crazy amount on red and starts going nuts. You can't make any move in finance unless you really understand all those things. But when people say, I'm investing in the market, right? As I'm sure you share so much on this podcast, they're usually referencing the S &P 500. And so the best way for beginners to get going, in my opinion, is like, look at the S &P 500.

15:55Any professor at any Ivy League school will tell you that you cannot outperform the market. Those are the smartest people in the world. Other people disagree with them. And just dollar cost average in. So think about how much that you can invest in and just pick one day, one time, and invest into a low cost index fund that mirrors the S &P 500. And that's a really good place to start. Yeah. But there's no cookie cutter subscription, right? There's nothing I could say here that everyone should do. Exactly. Which is why I always speak to the dangers of, you know, listening to any advice online because people are really trying to sell crypto or sell this particular fund.

16:30And it's like, you need to know your own situation. But what we can say is that, yeah, even those private bankers that you went to, that 250 ,000 you invested in that private fund was extra cash that you didn't need to touch for the next even 20 years. 20 years. You know what I mean? And if they had managed another portfolio for you, I'm sure it would be in those low cost ETFs like Voo, like SPY. And I still have so much in that. Yeah. That's where like it all started. A hundred percent. Yeah. Join me in Austin for Dear Media by Day on Saturday, September 26. It's a full day dedicated to helping you reset, refocus and build a life that feels more like yours.

17:07I'll be sitting down with lifestyle creators, Bella Dane, Hannah Chody, and Kiera Jackson to unpack how a great idea becomes a brand everybody wants. Plus, you'll be able to submit your own business ideas for live feedback. Get your tickets now at dearmedia.com slash events. I am curious, since you've just, you spent some time at a bank, you have built a career in personal finance education. Your whole thing is love and money, which we're going to get into that book as well. But what have you noticed the difference in the way that women talk about money versus men, whether it be through transparency or just like comparing notes on the stock market?

17:45The better generality that I feel comfortable as far as a thesis goes, it's just like we aren't taught anything that we need to know that relates to practical day-to-day mandates as an adult when it comes to money and even things like health insurance. I just had a CEO of a healthcare company on and he said 75 % of the United States can't explain what a deductible or premium is. We aren't taught these things. So then it goes back to that. We don't know how to talk about them. And when we don't know how to talk about them, we don't know how to advocate for ourselves. And then when we start talking about it, it's icky.

18:21It's sticky. It's gross. How dare you ask me? It's taboo. But when we do talk about it, it only educates each other so that we can consume more efficiently. we can hopefully spend with more value and less and earn more. And I think those are some of our biggest issues and those stem into how do we ask for raises and how do we talk to peers that we love when we're having money concerns and issues. And it's just continuing to be shuffled to the side and that it just has to end. Yeah. And you're doing a lot of work to make it end, which I so appreciate. And I am curious, you're so open about money.

18:56You're so transparent. I know you spent time, you know, in the money industry, but what was your relationship with money growing up? I like to ask all my guests this because it really does play, you know, such a role in how you talk about money now. It's a good one. It's a good one. My parents always were, always worked so hard and did everything to earn more, to put our family in a better position. But we're so, I would say, just intentional with their spending. And they did a really good job of teaching us the value of a dollar. As in like, I played hockey growing up and my skates were like, let's say they were like 250 bucks or 300 bucks.

19:34I just remember my dad just being like, I'll never forget. He would talk about his dad owned a grocery store and my dad always wanted a Snickers and his grandfather would tell him, you know, you can have that Snickers, take it, but I also have to sell eight of those to make up for that. And then my dad told me the story when he put it back. And he's like, I understand that. So they did a good job of that. At 16, my grandfather brought me upstairs and showed me his whole portfolio. He was taken advantage of from a corrupt financial advisor who's still in prison, lost 40 % of his net worth. And at 16, he's like, I'm gonna show you everything we have.

20:04And before I go, one thing I need you to learn is money because stories change, contacts shift, but numbers don't lie. And so like that is what really shaped my, I guess, relationship with like having more desire to understand finances. I would imagine that that would deter you from working with financial advisors. Like that's so scary. I had a friend who also was kind of screwed over by an FA. And it's really scary when someone uses their position of power or their license or something to take advantage of someone who doesn't know as much. Especially with financial management. Horrible. Right?

20:37Yeah. Like, it's crazy. So, and we talked about the mortgage crisis already. Yeah. But, like, look at how much has changed for, in my opinion, for regulation and the good just because of how if you don't put those things in place. Right. You know, the masses think for themselves and not for the betterment. And you have a whole housing crisis. So, yeah, it's crazy. I know. I know. It's wild. You can never be too careful, you know, which is why, which is speaks to the importance of transparency. Yeah. You know, talking to your friends, being like, what did your financial advisor say? Or what are you using?

21:11What accounts do you have just to make sure? Because I feel like one thing that bad actors take advantage of is that isolation and the fact that no one talks about it with each other. so no one can share what's happening. And you got to protect yourself. And I know when you talked about loving money, there was this one girl that I interviewed where she got married to this guy. He made more money than her, but he said his credit was off. So they get married. They both put, the mortgage is under her name. The deed is under both of their names. He's going to give her money for the mortgage because he makes more but doesn't have credit and couldn't, he would ruin the application.

21:45The minute they sign, our IRS comes knocking because he has insane back paid taxes that are owed. He had two divorces before where he swindled them. And now she's just getting married, just filing this out, just closing on a house, instantly filing for divorce. And now she is stuck with his IRS back taxes because she's reliable to pay for the mortgage, but they're both on the deed for ownership of the house. Disaster. Wow. And these things happen. I'm sure there's someone listening to this where they're like, I got absolutely wrecked by someone. this is what they did. This is how they do it. But like, why, why aren't we teaching each other from this stuff?

22:22Seriously? Wow. I'm so glad you had her on your podcast. Everyone go check that out. And I wrote in the book, I talked money to me. I actually, I was like, this story is so important for people to know. We transcribe the story and put it in the book. Oh my gosh. What the hell? What the hell? And so the lesson of that story is don't take on the more, don't put your name on the deed. I mean, if you put someone's name on the deed, they have ownership to the house. But if you own the liability for the loan and it's only you, you owe that money back. Right. So I think the thing is, probably the biggest lesson is before you sign or press anything, when taking out a liability of any sort, talk to a professional, ask the questions, where's my liability?

23:06And then, yeah, the second one is, it probably goes back to just that whole theory that like, like numbers don't lie, but people can. Yeah. Yeah. So true. Even if you think you know someone, just double check. It's all due diligence. Yeah. It's just due diligence. Like protect yourself. Protect yourself. Yeah, exactly. Pivoting a little bit. I want to talk about your talent agency. Yeah. My fellow multi-hyphenate. You're just doing it all. So I saw somewhere that you said y 'all made nearly 20 million or a bit over last year in revenue, but you don't take a salary. So this year we're, this year we should gross 20 million.