Episode 593: Jean Chatzky: Personal Finance Strategies for Building Wealth Without Overcomplicating Money

29:37Because the act of saving money is not fun, but having money saved is a lot of fun, right? And so they have to see success. They can see it. You can open a bank account for them. They can dial in online. They can see it grow. That's going to get them going. What do you mean? Like you should. like I would say like get them like have them to have like open up their own bank account. Yeah exactly. Yeah. Yeah but then not just open it up but give them online access so they can see they can actually see the money working for them. But the other thing that you have to do is and I learned this with my kids when they were young too because they they worked and they babysat and they had money and their money is much more valuable to them than your money.

30:29Absolutely. So you have to put some restrictions in place so that they are forced to spend some of their money. Oh, absolutely. You know, like I remember vividly going to a store. My son who grew up and now works in football. He works at WCDO now. He produces, he's one of the producers on New Heights, the podcast. Oh, I don't know that one. The Kelsey Brothers podcast. Oh, the Kelsey. Okay, yeah, yeah. One of the producers. How many producers does that podcast have? It has two. Oh, okay. So he's, you know. Okay, he's one of the two. But anyway, he wanted a jersey. He wanted some jersey that was$70.

31:10And I had said, bring your wallet when we went to the store. And he picked out this jersey. He said, this is what I want. I said, great, go buy it. And he said, well, I don't want to buy it with my money. I want to buy it with your money. I was like, well, that is not happening today. And he didn't want it quite as much because in his mind, it wasn't just$70. It was six hours of babysitting at that point. You know, he had done the rough translation to figure out how much of his time it was. And that's really powerful. Yeah, I think that to me is the best way to teach any child about money is when you make them use their own money.

31:54Yeah. Period. Full stop. That's where I think a lot of parents go wrong with allowances. They give their kids money, sometimes for chores, sometimes not, but they never force them to use the money. Right. The allowances have to come with a list of things that you're no longer going to buy. And that list should get bigger as the allowance gets bigger so that once kids go to college, they can actually handle a month's worth of money without blowing it. Have you noticed that kids these days don't babysit anymore? They don't have these like side jobs. Like they're not working at like the McDonald's.

32:31Like when I was young, 13 years old, 12, I was babysitting. I was babysitting. I was finding these little jobs at the McDonald's of the world, the bakery down my street. Because I was in the workforce, because it taught me how to earn money when I make money, then I buy things. I feel this generation doesn't do that anymore. No one's mowing the lawn. In my neighborhood, I don't see any children mowing the lawn. You have someone coming as a gardener. And it's not just here. It's like a thing. No, and I think it came about when parents started to feel as if their kids needed all their time for school.

33:20Exactly. Or the resume building activities. I mean, I think actually having a job is a resume building activity. By the way, 100%. I had this guy on my podcast. He was like the dean of Wharton many years ago because there was this whole thing, private school versus public school, how you should put the kid into a private school to be a feeder school, to get into an Ivy League, all the things. And I'm living in L.A., right? So I'm surrounded by more money than God here. One person's richer than the next. Yeah. Right? And all these people are fighting for those like private school placements. And this is why, for the feeder schools.

33:55And I'm like, listen, to me, in my opinion, like if you're if you're smart and capable, you can go anywhere. So I got this guy on my podcast and I literally asked him all these questions. And he said to me, it's all a bunch of nonsense. He's like, if your kid is smart and capable and doing all these things, it doesn't matter if they're going to the public school, if they're going to Harvard Westlake or our school. They actually are there. They actually will benefit by going to the public school versus that school and having a job. Yeah. And like learning how to actually like function in society.

34:27And so I said, I'm like, he's like, I have three kids. And I said, okay, so where did your three kids go to school? He's like, they all went to public school. Yeah. And I was like, thank you. My job here is done. And goodbye. Because I think that there's like this misconception, like you're right. Like these parents are like, oh, the kid has to spend 24 hours a day on their schooling and they should only do activities that are for. I'm like, what are you talking about? You working at McDonald's and keeping that job for two years looks way better than you doing anything else. Yeah, exactly. I agree.

34:58I think that there are a lot of ways that we've sort of lost the thread. No, I think that's a big one. No, I think we could do a whole other podcast. I've done many podcasts actually on this topic. But I think it's important because it feeds into money, in my opinion, and values and success. and economics and all these things. If no kids now are like mowing the lawn or doing their, you know, having a little side hustle of painting or, you know, working as a camp counselor or a camp counselor. And all they're doing is like, I don't even know what they're doing. To me, it's like you lost the plot.

35:39And you lost the ambition and the drive and all of it. Like I say to my kids, you want that matcha or you want whatever that bobo drink is, go buy it. I'm not buying it for you. You want that new shirt? Go buy it. But now they're conditioned to do that. Right. Right? And so it's about conditioning these kids to do this. And I'm sure they take some pleasure in knowing that they can buy it for themselves. A hundred percent. That they can do it for themselves. It builds self-esteem and confidence. Absolutely. Because it's showing that you actually are capable and competent and that you have the power and the ability to kind of do these things on your own.

36:18Yeah. Yeah. And being out there, I was thinking back, my first job besides being a camp counselor and a babysitter, I worked at the local sporting goods store in Wheeling, West Virginia. That's where I went to high school, public high school, Wheeling, West Virginia. And it just, you know, helped people fit sneakers all day. It was fantastic because you learn how to talk to grownups. You learn how to, I mean, in those days we learned how to manage money and count everything out of the cash register. But it helps you learn how to get along in the world. It's like interactive, like how to interact with people.

37:01Again, a lost art right there. Exactly. People don't know how to do that, which, again, is a whole other podcast we can get into.

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39:01Let's talk about another group of people, women, because I think this is also an issue with women. Women who, there's a few things, right? I think that women who are on their second life, let's say, and they got a divorce, and now they don't know what to do with money because they had someone who took care of it for them. Like their husband was taking care of all their money, so now they're at a loss, right? What is the biggest financial mistake that actually women make? Let's start there, and then we can move on from there. Look, I think the biggest financial mistake that anybody makes is taking their eye off the ball.

39:34And I think younger women are making it much less frequently than people my age made it. I mean, we get a lot of women coming through our coaching programs at Her Money who are going through divorce and are trying to figure it out and move forward. And they're learning on the fly. You're better off learning how to manage your money when you're not in crisis. It is a big mistake. I get why it happens that in a couple where you are trying to get everything done in a day, you can't all do everything. You have to divide and conquer. These are traditional roles, but they're not traditional roles that serve women.

40:19The other thing, and this was something that really came to the fore as I was doing the research for this book, is that we, as you said, we live longer. We also earn less. The salary gap has been stuck, is not getting better. We are still the ones who take breaks from work to care for kids, to care for older parents. When we get to retirement, the balances in our retirement accounts are 40 % smaller, and then we have to make them last a longer number of years. We've got to focus on planning for our own retirement. What do we want? When do we want it? If we have a partner, and fewer and fewer people have partners these days, but if we have a partner, we have to talk to that partner about what retirement looks like so that we can set ourselves up with the right paycheck and the right system that will give us those things that we want and need.

41:20I clipped an article out of the Wall Street Journal like 15 years ago. The headline was, He Says Maine, She Says Florida. And it was all about retirement and a couple that had not talked about it and realized as they got really, really close to it that they were on completely different pages. And it happens all the time. We need to sit down and talk to the people in our lives about how we're going to enter this next phase and pay for it and what we actually want. Right. If someone's a spender and someone is not, another massive issue. Yeah. Right? Where do you find the happy middle, the middle ground?

42:10I know you're not a clinical psychologist, but I mean, this is really a big problem. It is a big problem. I think you find the middle with financial autonomy for both people in a relationship, right? And this is— Does that mean keeping your own bank account, your own money? Yeah, I think everybody should have their own bank account, honestly. I think there should be one for the house, and people should have some money that they are able to manage on their own. Because otherwise—look, I don't want to ask my husband's permission when I go buy something. I'm not, first of all, I'm not asking permission.

42:47But second of all, it just starts to feel very parental. One person has all the power in that case. It's not a system that works. Yeah. Well, okay, but then what do you, like, so someone, it's easy for you or me to say that because we have a career and we've structured our life not to be in that predicament. And I think every woman should, but that's a whole other podcast in itself. What about women who don't have a career, who relied on that husband or whatever partner to basically do all of this and they have no money of their own? Well, they should set up the system so they have money of their own.

43:29She should still have an account of her own. It should be funded automatically with a chunk of money that comes out of the paycheck because not funding that is like saying what she is doing in taking care of the family has no value. Right. Which we know is not true. Oh, interesting. So you're saying that there should be some type of fee, like some kind of fee or salary put placed on someone who is taking care of the home because that is technically a job too. I don't think we want to. I like that. I don't know if we want to define it as a fee, but I think, look, everybody needs money of their own.

44:07Everybody needs a chunk of money that they can manage. And so you sit down and you look at whatever's coming in each month. You figure out what we need for the household expenses, what we need to save. Those things come first. And then the breadwinner gets some money and the person who's saving at home gets some money and they get to manage it as they want to manage it. But I don't think that's such a bad idea. No, I think it's a great idea. You know, like if I'm staying at home, cooking the food, buying the groceries, picking up the children every day, doing all those things, that is technically a job.

44:43Right. And by the way. I should get paid for it. Yes, and there should be a life insurance policy on you. Because if something were to happen to you, it's going to cost that guy money, that person money, to replace all of those things that you do. Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, honestly, like side note, you know, because I work like a dog, and I'm sure you, maybe you work like a dog too. It's costing me a bloody fortune to have like help, like a nanny, an au pair, all these things. Sure. I mean, it is literally, it's like not cheap. No. I'm literally working to pay for my nanny or for my own. That's literally what's happening.

45:24So like for someone who's staying home doing that job, they should be compensated for it. And having the person who's like the actual mother or father or whatever doing a job, it's even better because they care more. That's just the way it is, right? And they like put more into it. So I think that job should, that should be, that should be like a six-figure job. And by the way, they are six-figure jobs here in certain places. In certain places, they are. You know? So I think that's a really good idea. And that's how you can get your own, start building your own wealth. Well, because there's no law that says with this money that's in your name that you have to spend it.

46:03You can save it. You can invest it. You can do whatever you want. No, I see people, I see women all the time asking permission to like go buy this or go buy that. I also think it's important to be fair for I feel like women don't even a lot of times, not all women, they're not paying attention. They don't even look at prices of dresses or things like I think being conscientious of how much milk costs and how much a bag costs and how much shoes costs is really important for yourself too. I think it depends on how much money you have. Right. I mean, I think people who are living paycheck to paycheck, they know exactly what everything costs.

46:41Right. So we're trying to, I'm trying to like do a gamut here. I'm not trying to be, I don't want to assume someone has a lot of money or. Right. But people who listen to this podcast, it's all over the map. You've got people who are very wealthy probably and people who are, you know, just starting out. And just so I want to make sure I'm covering for everybody. But you asked me at this, at the top of the show, what's the one thing people can do? Yeah. They can pay attention to where their money is going. And that's going to teach them what things cost. Do you know where a lot of the money's going, honestly?

47:09To matchas and coffee. Like people are paying$10,$20,$30 a day on buying coffee. What does that equal if that's doing that? $30 a day, because let's say you buy one in the morning, you buy one in the afternoon, plus tax and all the things. Let's say you're up to$25 a day. Okay. $25 times$7 is$175. Okay. Right? $25 times$6 is$150. D25 times 7, 175 times 4 is... Let's do the math right now. Okay, and I'm going to tell you why I'm doing this. Well, you can 25 times 7, let's just say. Okay, they're buying$25 worth of coffee a day times 7 is$175, right? Times 4. That's$700 a month times 12. That's now$8 ,500 just like a year.

48:02And there was a very famous book by David Bach, a guy named David Bach, his friend of mine, that talked all about the latte factor. Yeah. Right? And this was when coffee was$5.

48:15It's stupid. I won't do it. Money slips through our fingers in two ways. It's the little things that we buy all the time, and it's the big things where we should really rein it in a bit. and making choices about I won't do it or I'm going to. I mean, we like Starbucks. We make it at home. You know, those kind of things give you the freedom to spend your money in other ways. I'm not going to tell somebody if their one coffee is the thing that like gets them through the day. I'm not going to say you can't do that. What I will say, and I think what I've said for a long time, is you got to choose.

48:55Like we can't have everything. So your money is yours to do with as you want, but you should be making choices that are going to make you the most happy. I just think that I have a problem with people who are just frivolous for no reason, right? Like to me, like you can easily make coffee at home that's just as good and save so much. Like to me, the prices of coffee have gotten to be so outrageous. It's like I'm offended by it. I'm offended in some restaurants lately as well. And I'm offended by restaurants too. Yeah. I went to get, you know how much a salad is now with like protein? With stuff on it.

49:37With stuff on it. I went to, I hate to say it, I go there a lot. I went to Pura Vida. Do you know what this, you know Pura Vida? Okay, it's a very popular restaurant. It started in Miami. Now they're all over the place. I get this Greek salad with like raw tuna. It was like$36. And I was like, this much protein. Yeah. I'm like, is this like absurd? I mean, anywhere you go now, even like sweet cream, I'm paying$25 for a salad. Like, these prices have gotten out of control. Yeah. Yeah. No, I feel the same way. I have trouble with entrees that are more than$40. It just, it just, even. It's crazy.

50:14I went out for dinner the other night,$57 for salmon and some vegetables. Yeah. Crazy. It's crazy. So who can afford this? Well, not many people. Right? Right. And this is why people are going into debt, though. It's why people are going into debt. It's why people are saying we're not going out to dinner. It's why people are so—I mean, if we're going to dig into it, it's why people are so upset about the economy in general right now. Because things have become— Stupid. I mean, I don't live here in L.A., but I filled up a car here recently. You don't get me started with this. The gas situation is mind-blowing.

50:57So unless you have a Tesla or like an electric car, you're spending$120 a week just on gas, just filling up your car. Which is why, for me, it all comes back to control, right? We're earning a certain amount of money. You're helping people earn more, which is amazing. Not really. I'm trying. we we have to make sure that we're making good choices about how we're managing that money what are we gene like what are we supposed to do when you go you there's like it's kind of like this oxymoron it's kind of like this cash catch 22 people are lonelier and more isolated than ever and so the way that people socialize is they meet for lunch or dinner or whatever they do like people socialize over a meal.

51:50Now it's too expensive for most people to go eat out on a regular basis. And then they stay home. So like even groceries are absurdly expensive. They are. Go for a walk. I mean, that's what people are doing, right? People go for a walk. Walk the dog. Yeah. Go for a walk. I mean, how many times do you walk around the block at this point? Like, I mean, do you know what I'm saying? Even a workout class is 30 bucks. I know. My Equinox gym membership is$400. Like these prices are not sustainable for regular people. Like unless you're making a ton of money, people are struggling or they are in debt.

52:27People are struggling. There's absolutely no question. And it's not just LA. No, no, no, no. It's not just LA.

52:44It's not kept up with inflation. And it's been 20 years. We had a slight blip around the pandemic where wages moved ahead. But for pretty much the last 20 years, wages have not kept up with inflation, which means your dollar is buying less and less. And we're seeing it and feeling it more now because of everything that's going on politically. Prices, especially at the pump, are going way up. And this is all happening at a time when we have more responsibility for our retirements than any generation that ever came before us, right? Gen X, and I sit right on the bubble between a boomer and a Gen Xer.

53:31Gen Xers have no pensions. Like very, very few Gen Xers have the pensions that parents had, which means it's on us to make sure that we save enough for our futures. And now we've got all of these Social Security fears to add on to that. Now, I think Social Security will be there. I think that the government won't fix it until the very, very last minute, because that seems to be how our government likes to behave. But we have to pay attention to this. The good news about the retirement system and the 401k system is that about two decades ago in 2006, there was a change in the law that allowed employers to automatically enroll people in 401ks, to automatically bump up their contributions each year until they were maxing out, to default them into investments that were appropriate.

54:27As a result, we've got more 401k millionaires than we have ever had before. Like the amount of money in these retirement plans is enormous. But when you get to retirement, you have to do it right. You don't get a do-over on this. If you don't pay attention to it and don't approach it strategically, you're going to miss out on happiness and even health and longevity, Like having a strategy that gives you a paycheck for the rest of your life has been shown to improve how long you're going to live, how healthy you're going to be, how happy you're going to be. It seems like a really, really small thing, but it makes a very, very big difference.

55:16Hmm. Okay. Here are some more questions for you. Ready? Okay. All right. These are going to be more like rapid fire. This is like a little bit of a - Lightning round? Yeah, kind of. All right. Rent or buy? I don't want to give you an it depends answer, but I'm going to give me an it. I don't want the it depends. In pretty much every major metro area right now, renting is the better economic decision. However, when you buy a house and you pay down a mortgage, you end up with this supplemental pot of money at the end of the road and you can use that money for a lot of stuff. I get asked a question about long-term care insurance all the time.

55:57Should I buy long-term care insurance? And long-term care insurance is really, really expensive. If you've got a paid off mortgage, that's like having a long-term care policy. Really? Because you can live in that house or you can sell that house and go live in assisted living if you need to. Okay, so rent or buy is a depends answer. It kind of is. You know what I mean? Yeah, it is. Okay, debit or credit card? Credit card if you can handle debt. If you pay it off every month, credit card, no question. Pay off debt or invest? That depends on the interest rate on the debt. So if you've got 25 % on a credit card, pay off that credit card.

56:39If you've got 5 % or 4 % on a mortgage, as many people do, invest. Okay. Roth or traditional 401k? Both. Both. When you get to retirement, you want to have different buckets of money that you can pull from as your income roller coasters through retirement. The younger you are, if you can afford to put money in a Roth, put it in the Roth, you're never going to have to pay taxes on it again. Really? Okay, good to know. Lease or buy a car? Buy. Why? Buy used and drive it into the ground. Cars have gotten way too expensive. I haven't bought a new car in a really long time. We buy certified used cars and drive until they die.

57:26That's a good idea. What kind of car do you drive? I drive a Volvo because I'm like a suburban mom. That sounds perfect. I love it. Okay. Joint or separate bank accounts in marriage? You kind of said that. Yeah, both. Both. Separate and then a joint for like household items. Okay. Allowance or no allowance? Allowance as a teaching tool, but make sure they're using it to buy stuff. Love that. College fund or retirement first? Retirement. Really? Why? Because there's financial aid for college and there's no financial aid for retirement. Good answer. Pay off the mortgage early or keep investing? I like the idea of having a paid off mortgage as you go into retirement.

58:07I think it gives you a lot of room to breathe and be flexible by the numbers, particularly if you've got a low rate mortgage, investing is the right thing to do. I paid off my mortgage. Yeah. Okay. What about, well, I said some of these are already we kind of touched on, but financial advisor necessary or not for most people? By 50, everyone should have a financial checkup with a financial advisor. Whether you want to keep that person around for the long term is a judgment call. How many credit cards is too many? I don't want to show you my wallet. All right. Let's take the business cards off the table, right?

58:50We're not counting your business cards. Most people probably just need two. They need one that they're going to get all the points on if they're doing points, and they need one with a lower interest rate for a purchase that they might have to pay off over time. But I would say once you get past like three or four, you've got too many. Nobody needs the store cards. Yeah, nobody needs. And also, Who's using the Discover card or the MasterCard? Does anyone use the MasterCard? I have MasterCard. For what? What are you using it for? My Citibank card is a MasterCard. My American Airlines card is a MasterCard.

59:28So it depends on what program you're in. But why? Why is it a MasterCard? No, no. What's the benefit? MasterCard or Visa? They're the same. Yeah. But no, I feel like Visa is kind of synonymous with Kleenex for tissues. Do you know what I mean? No. No, I think it's, you've been with. I've never heard of anyone who uses a MasterCard anymore. I use it all the time. Really? Yeah, because. Steve Chatsky uses a MasterCard? Well, and I use a Visa, right? My Chase Sapphire Reserve is a Visa. My Citibank American Airlines card is a MasterCard. They're synonymous. It just depends on where the bank lined up.

1:00:05Okay, so I guess my question, I said, I asked you earlier about the MX Platinum, but like, what is a MasterCard, Visa, or what was the other one? Or American Express. Which one is the best for business? Depends what you're trying to do. Make money, save money, don't spend money. My business card is also an American Airlines card because I travel a ton for business and I fly out of Philly. All right? And so that's what I need. I'm going to keep on whittling down this credit card thing. I'm trying to figure this out. You got to look at the benefits. But MasterCard, Visa, same deal. Okay. What money rule you think is probably outdated by now?

1:00:46You know, I was talking about this with my son-in-law, and I think it's outdated and really bad advice right now, which is sometimes realtors will tell you to marry the house and date the interest rate. Like, date the rate on your mortgage. because you can always refinance. I think people who took that advice are in a lot of trouble as mortgage rates start popping. Well, they're really high right now. They're really high, and some people think they're going higher. Watch out for adjustable rate loans right now. Really see if you can, unless it's like a, even if it is a, unless you know that you're moving before the term on your rate expires, I would make sure that you lock into a fixed.

1:01:39I mean, I don't know if this is something you can answer, but I think so. In terms of just financially, where is the best place for a family to live in the U.S. right now? Boy, I mean, there are a lot. It's a really hard question because it depends on where your job is. You've got to live where your job is. But in terms of just overall quality of life, prices. When I worked at Money Magazine every year, we published a list of the best places to live. I don't know where that is right now. I mean, Philadelphia is actually very affordable when it comes to other cities, and we've got some of the best restaurants in the country.

1:02:22I mean, places like that are, like, I feel, popping now. I mean, LA's number is, like, the last on the list. Did you know that? And, you know, New York's really expensive. My daughter and son-in-law, they moved to Charlotte. Why? It's nice. Yeah. It's a great quality of life. Yeah. And much more reasonable. Yeah. They cut their rent in half and doubled their space. Oh, my God. You know, I went to, even Austin, I went recently and I went to a friend of mine's house who is like a very well-known, successful person. and I could not believe that my house in LA costs more than their house in Austin.

1:03:01Based on like the caliber, like LA is that expensive. LA is crazy. It's like, it's like, it's literally unbelievable. People can like work like a dog, make money and they're like still, they're still like, you know, paying hand, what do you call it? Like money and whatever. The real estate here is in like West LA is so stupid expensive. And you get nothing for your money. Nothing. Yeah. No, I know. I mean, I've watched. People should not be buying here. I'm just telling you. Anyway, let's keep on going. Okay. So I have a couple more questions. Okay. For somebody who knows absolutely nothing about investing, what is the simplest way to start in 2026?

1:03:43What do I actually open, buy, and contribute every month? Open an IRA or a Roth IRA at a big Fidelity Vanguard Schwab firm that has all the services and a really good online interface. Contribute. Start with$100 a month. I mean, start where you are. If you can contribute more than that, great, but contribute$100 a month and buy a total stock market index fund or ETF that just puts you in the market and start watching what it does. Okay. And if someone's, okay, so what's the difference? Let's say this. If someone's earning$100 ,000 a year,$150 ,000 a year, what would be the financial plan that you would put them on?

1:04:38I would put them on some sort of a budget so that they're getting to the point where they are saving that 15 % that we talked about earlier. So back to the 15%. Back to the 15%. So we got to target something, right? And so we'll target saving. What has to happen to that family, to that person, so that that money goes in automatically? Is it coming out of their paycheck? Where's it going? Get it invested in some sort of diversified portfolio can be the total stock market fund that I talked about a second ago. Then you make sure that their spending is in line, right? So they're not going into debt to support that saving.

1:05:24You make sure they've got a protection plan in place. What does this family look like? Are they married? Are there kids? If so, do they have a will? Do they have life insurance? Are they single and dependent solely on themselves? If so, do they have disability insurance in case something were to happen? Have they put into place documents so that somebody else could take care of things if they were to get sick? Is there a health care power of attorney or financial power of attorney? All of those things. What are the best ways for an average person to create wealth outside of their paycheck? I love that you said outside of their paycheck.

1:06:09Investing is the easiest lift, right? If you buy real estate, and I know that a lot of people have made a lot of money in real estate and people like it, but if you buy real estate, then you're giving yourself another job. You're becoming a landlord in many, many cases unless you just buy a REIT. If you buy stocks, you are buying just pieces of companies. Those companies are doing the work. Let them do that. So you say stocks? Stocks. Because real estate is always the number one, right? To buy, people think, oh, buy real estate, buy real estate, or have a side hustle or a business, or is it, you're just saying stocks would be the best way?

1:06:48Just the best. And stocks? It's certainly the easiest. If you're. Lowest lift, for sure. If you're starting a side hustle, you got to work that side hustle. Yes. Buying a laundromat, you got to work that laundromat. It's a full-time job. Exactly. Okay. Enough with my little questions. I want to know, what is the number one thing people ask you about that you get the most questions about? I get the financial planner question, which you asked, how do you find one? I get the long-term care question a lot. That is a reflection, I think, of my audience. Those are the two that I get most often. I mean, when I've been out talking about the book, I've been getting asked a lot of questions about how do you set up a paycheck?

1:07:31Like, how do you, how do you, and I think it comes down to a little bit of your personality. Like, buying a paycheck with annuities gives you guarantees. You know that that money is going to come for the rest of your life, no matter how long that life is. If you use investments to build your paycheck, bonds, CDs, dividend-paying stocks, that gives you some upside that you're not going to necessarily get with annuities. So it's really a matter of how risk-averse you are versus how much FOMO you have. But, you know, people sort of want to know the ins and outs of that. Well, it sounds to me just talking to you for the last hour and something and change.

1:08:19like it's basically the same like like besides the fact that people are living longer than they did 25 years ago when you started or right you know it's still the same information like it's like it's kind of like in the fitness business right like people are constantly looking for like this magic potion or pill to get results but it's the boring basics that always get you to the finish line in every industry in every vertical right like it's like tell me the newest and greatest and best. And it's like, well, unfortunately, it's the Roth, it's the IRA, it's the 401, it's the save your money, it's investment.

1:08:56Like, you could package it any way you want. You could put lipstick on this pig as much as you'd like, but it's literally the same thing over and over again. That's kind of like what I've gleaned from this whole thing. You know, it's like a squat and a lunge will get you to the finish line more than all these fancy tools to, you know, it's the same thing. I, I, um, and I talk about it in those terms a lot, like you can't out exercise a bad diet. No, you can't. And you can't save, you can't invest your way out of not saving any money. If you don't save anything, there's going to be nothing there to invest.

1:09:33Exactly. The whole program doesn't work. I, people laugh at me all the time because I am very mindful of like where I put my money. And it's because I don't want to be in a situation because you never know where I'm like spending more than I make. Like I think that's a horrible stress that people don't need in their life. A hundred percent. Right? Is there anything else that people can get from your book? Or what would be the top two things people will get from your book if they go up there and buy it today? I think they're going to learn that the spending down phase of their money needs a plan.

1:10:16And if they plan for a paycheck, it's going to make them a lot happier and a lot less stressed as they go through it. Well, I'm telling you, this book, as everything else you do, I love. Thank you. Where do people find more about you and your business? Because you said you have courses and all the things. My business is Her Money. We have courses. We have newsletters and free newsletters. They're good, actually. Actually, you sound surprised. No, they're good. HerMoney.com. And for more on me and the book, just Gene Chatsky. I love it. Thank you again for being here. I'm so happy. Oh, thanks. This is super fun.

1:10:59Thank you for being here. Guys, one more thing I always am remiss to say, and I get in trouble all the time. If you have not subscribed to the podcast, please hit the button because it makes a big difference on the algorithms on all channels. And if there's any comments or things you want to see on the show, please let me know. I'm always open and love hearing from you. So with that being said, thank you for being here. And bye, everybody.

1:11:28Thank you.