"I'm Starting to Accept I'll Never Carry a Child Myself" : The Part of Surrogacy Nobody Prepared Me For

0:00Louise: Think of a toilet as just an everyday object. Your entire perspective shifts the moment you experience a Kohler smart toilet. Design changes everything, transforming a basic routine into something extraordinary. With standout aesthetics and intuitive controls, these are functional works of art. Stunning design that never sacrifices performance. Enjoy customizable features for elevated comfort and convenience. It's more than a fixture. It's a cleaner routine and a more refined space. Experience the difference of Kohler smart toilets. Find more at Kohler.com. Welcome back to He Said, She Said. I'm Ryan and you're...

0:41Louise: Louise. Okay. You sounded like... Who's the character from Family Guy that whistles when they say an S? Oh, uh... Quagmire. Is it Quagmire? Another guy like me. I can't remember his name. She. Yes, you sounded like that. Welcome back. We've got a really exciting episode for you today. Where are we starting? Given that it's summer now, I thought we should talk a little bit about grooming habits. I was sent a laser hair removal machine a couple of weeks ago, and I've cracked it out of the box, and I've started using it. I've seen you. I've seen you doing it. I know. Is that? Smells like actual burning hair in the kitchen quite often.

1:22Louise: Oh. It looks quite painful as well. Don't let people know that I do it in the kitchen. It looks like one of those things that's like zapping you at the same time. potentially quite painful well i don't think it's supposed to hurt if you shave the hair closely enough to your skin i don't think it's supposed to hurt um how do you feel about me doing that in front of you what the laser treatment yeah i've had it sister yeah it's not gross no a lot of people that i know got into laser when it first came out we're talking like 10 years ago and i never really jumped on that trend because to be honest i do find the idea of going into a clinic and lying there legs akimbo with your vagina out.

2:00Hang on, we've gone from, sorry, are you going to start doing your fad in the kitchen as well?

2:05Louise: Um, no, I think I'll be a bit more discreet with that. I know we've got great curtains. Oh my God, curtains. Well, hang on, are you going for a full laser, full body? I think I started with the armpits just because I wanted to test it out in a small surface area and make sure that it worked. Well, I'm only one treatment in. Go on. I think you need to do it about eight times. I'll show you mine. That's disgusting. Why are you wearing a tank top? It's hot as balls out here today. Mine are, oh. Oh, not that effective. Not sure it's working. They're in the regrowth phase. Oh my God. And then I'm going to go again this weekend.

2:39Louise: Then I got a bit ambitious and I stretched to my lower leg and then we'll see how it goes. I actually did, I like prepared to get ready for it, but I just haven't had the time. And the thing is, is I don't get a second in that bathroom on my own. Leo actually was watching me do my underarm. and it was a bit off-putting. And then he started to get a bit freaked out by it. I think he thought I was using like a proper gun, and I was kind of squealing, and so he got a bit protective. He was like, mummy, stop. I feel like it's a bit weird doing certain grooming behaviours in front of your children.

3:15Louise: What I mean by that is - Sorry, I'm so naive and innocent in this. I'm still thinking about you in the kitchen with this little device just doing your shins. Yeah. But you're taking this into a different part of grooming. Well, I guess I am because there are probably people that are really relaxed around their kids that would do their full body, like have a full body shave in front of their little child in the bathroom. Well, I think if you're in the shower or you're in the bath and you're under your legs and your armpits, he's not going to be creeped out by that. No, fine. But if you can start doing yard work, let that be done in your own private times.

3:46Louise: How would you feel about me doing yard work in front of you? No, please don't do that. Please don't do that. Something that I've seen alluded to the fact that some couples, like, do their yard work together and help each other out. No. First of all, I've never heard of that, and that's not my speed. That is not going to happen at home. Okay, good, because I would never, ever want that either. I don't think I'd find that very sexy. Were you ever familiar with the idea that your mum was taking care of herself when you were growing up? Sorry. Well, it's not something that would enter my mind at any stage until you've just planted it there.

4:27So let's retract that statement.

4:29Louise: The only reason I mention it is because when I was growing up, my mum would have someone that would come to the house fairly regularly with this massive fold-out table. I could smell the wax. I could smell this wax machine. And as a child, it used to scare me because it was unfamiliar. Maybe because there wasn't a conversation. So she never educated me on what it was. So I just knew that she was locking herself in a room with this other woman. and there was a weird smell coming from under the door and it smelled a bit like burning. So maybe I just need to explain to you, listen, don't need to worry about that.

4:57Louise: I'm not burning myself and I'm not hurting myself. I'm just getting rid of the hairs. And then he'll say why? Yeah, that's a good question.

5:11Louise: Because, well, what I would say is having longer hair onto your armpits does keep the smell in. Yeah, yes, yes, it does. So that is a good enough reason, in my opinion. Yeah, yeah. And what about sharing a razor? How would you feel about that?

5:29Louise: Ooh. Sharing a razor. Yeah, I'm right. Yeah, yeah. Sharing a toothbrush? No. You do that for someone who, by the way, this is someone who doesn't particularly, she will write, she'll put an L on a water bottle to make sure that no one touches it and drinks from it. So you do that, but then there's been so many times where you will use my toothbrush and i'm like needs must no it's only if i forget to pack one i hate doing it and i will sterilize it under boiling water first you might hate doing it but you still do it quite regularly because it's better than not brushing your teeth there's not a lot of boundaries so i will share your toothbrush i will share your razor although yours always blunt because like men's hair is really coarse um i have shared your boxes before especially when i was unwell they're just so much more comfortable sometimes i'll use them as pajamas i wear your t-shirts i'll wear your hats i'll wear your socks no you wear my socks daily i went to the gym with you yesterday and you've got you've got dad's club socks on nice which are huge and they're all like baggy around the toes i'm like yeah but you also have those really tight ones that are the sporty ones they're like ones that are like compression socks yeah they're also so expensive and you wear them all i never get a I don't know how to use them.

6:43Louise: What else? You use my face creams. I do. Use all that Olaplex on my mossy hair. You do. You're very generous with that. Nothing's really off-bounds except for water. Do you know what I mean? A water bottle. Louise, you actually, do you know what she does? You've got a secret stash of water bottles in that little bedroom cabinet. Well, like, buy water so that I don't want to have them. So I take them upstairs and I hide them in there. God, that sounds really spoiled, doesn't it? Well, I went through a phase of being, and this is not actually that cool, but I did have quite bad. I haven't been diagnosed with this, so interpret with caution, but it could be said that I had OCD when it came to the things that I consumed because of my tricky relationship with my health.

7:32Louise: And so I went through a phase where I didn't want to drink water out of the tap because I was worried that it had things in, hormones, chemicals, toxins. and it was very expensive. Tap water in London is particularly... I hear there's cocaine in it. Well, I think the fact, hasn't it been through the body seven times before, like by the time you drink it? Isn't that crazy? I've heard that sound. It's just a complete recycle. So what you drink and comes out is just recycled and it does that seven, eight times before, as in like... Right, so instead of it coming from a beautiful source of water, like from a little stream or a lake, it's actually just refiltered the same time over and over.

8:10Louise: Shower water, sink water. Does that mean that water that's hitting, so when you wee into the loo and you flush it, that water goes into the same system, gets purified and then comes out of our taps? Without doing research around it, I'm going to estimate that that is exactly what happens. I am now going to stick to water. What do you mean now? You've been doing it for ages. No, I've actually, I've been a bit more relaxed. When I was growing up, I didn't have a lot of conversations with my mum about a lot of these grooming practices. So I actually probably didn't have a razor until I was quite old.

8:46Why did you not have those conversations? Did she avoid them? Yeah.

8:49Louise: And I think because I was sent to boarding school, it was maybe just expected that I would have those tricky conversations. Were you sent? Or did they say, would you like to go to this school? No, no one asked me whether I'd like to go to this school. Oh, so you were sent? Yeah, I was sent. I don't think my brother was asked whether he wanted to go to boarding school at eight. I was asked. You were asked? Yeah. Oh. maybe I'm being a bit unfair yeah anyway I learned a lot from my from my peers and when I was old enough obviously I could go to the shops and I could buy myself the provisions that I needed because there is a lot of pressure when you go through puberty to start taking care of yourself as a woman do you see it as pressure or is it just one of those things that's well I guess like brushing your teeth well I think it's more that when you're young and you start to notice hair on your legs and then you see lots of grown-up women without hair on their legs you think that that's what you need to do so you start to conform to societal norms or you see pictures in magazines of silky ladies and you think that that's what I should be doing so you just copy ultimately I think that you know the generations below us now must feel so stressed because they see so much perfection

10:05Louise: and so there are loads of different things that people are trying out at a much younger age what do you mean by that well when i was at school i used a soap a bar of soap i had i remember imperial leather was the thing with that with that bottle and it went and it came out from gel to foam and that was epic but it was really expensive to have that and that that is like nostalgia from childhood for ryan and they smelt amazing but they were about three pounds a bottle back then whereas a regular bar of soap would maybe be 30p and so it was a real treat and so maybe you'd be allowed like one of them in your wash bag each term and it was quite easy to use one of them in one go and get really overexcited by it but now kids are exposed to so much marketing whether it's direct or indirect you've got celebrities bringing out products at the age of 14 15 millie bobby brown brought out an entire skincare range at the age of 15 years old which is mad because obviously everybody loved watching her in what was the show she was in stranger things stranger things lots of children watched that and thought that she was an icon and so they would then go and buy the makeup and even then if your brands like sephora aren't directly marketing using pictures of teenagers in their imagery.

11:28Louise: They know that young people are following other young people who have created brands. You've got Victoria Beckham, who's been speaking recently. She actually did a podcast episode with Emma Greed. She did podcasts? She started like doing a bit of a press thing. Mate, I'd love to speak to Victoria Beckham. Can we get her on here? Hell yeah. Shoot for the stars, Rizy. um she was talking about how harper her 14 year old daughter wants to bring out a makeup wants to bring out a skincare line which caused quite a lot of controversy in the comments i mean the story that she was telling was one of one that a lot of people could relate to so her daughter had bad acne lots of teenagers do uh victoria even admits that she did herself she tried a lot of different skincare products none of them worked hence there's the narrative of let's bring out our own product it's like the perfect marketing pitch a lot of people are saying they didn't didn't buy into it but it's something that harper really wants to do herself and i wonder she's 14 i wonder how you feel about that i don't i don't know uh how do i feel about it she's quite young to be starting a business well i think that's that's an interesting point because ultimately to 14 year olds even really have bank accounts i know that parents are trying to make their kids more tech and financially savvy by educating them but how much money does a teenager really need to have access to how old was how old was Kylie Jenner when she launched that makeup business she was 18 and whose decision was that was it hers or her mum's well probably her mum probably Chris like she's she's the sort of manager as well as the mum right yeah she's the mumager she's the mumager that's what her name is she's the mumager that's great well maybe Victoria is a bit of a mumager she's definitely following that blueprint maybe maybe there's a little bit of dave and victoria who are like well we've got an opportunity to do some good in this industry in this space maybe we can create something that's really quite helpful and healthy for younger kids and maybe harper has got an interest and a passion in it maybe we can nurture it because they've got every resource available to them yes they've definitely got a huge head start um i like the way that you frame that and that it could be a positive thing and they definitely she's definitely a mummager because I know that she's trademarked all of her children's names so there's the intention of maybe being able to utilize that as they get older I can't imagine as a parent thinking about Leo and what his career is going to look like at 14 I can when he's older so I can imagine him in his 20s and trying to guide him on what might feel like a good path and and maybe when he's a teenager thinking about the building blocks but I can't imagine him establishing like a massive, probably incredibly lucrative hundred billion dollar company at the age of 14.

14:26Louise: It's maybe part of the problem that you would encounter with a child starting something, because if they're only 14 when they're starting it, what does the end look like? Like, how do you keep reinventing yourself? Like that's a lot of success to reach at such a young age. And then every five years you've got to be launching the next thing. Or Or if it doesn't go so well, then you have to face that. I'll tell you, there's another thing I can offer to this as well. Tiger Woods was three years old when he first remembers watching his dad in the garage swing a golf club. And from three years old, Tiger Woods says, that was always going to be my career.

15:04Lewis Hamilton started go-kart racing when he was about four or five. From that age, he was like, this is my life. So Victoria and David might have something with Harper where she's like, I've seen mummy do this for so many years. I want to do this. So maybe they're like, let's go.

15:21Louise: Her makeup line in Venice is absolutely elite. I love Victoria Beckham makeup. Well, there we go. But why can't she? She should just do a little collaboration. Just bring out a... No, but you don't know the full context. So maybe I'm trying to give you things that might be around this. Yeah. no totally like Leo said to me this morning he's like I want to be a BMXer no he didn't he didn't yeah but he's never seen you BMX yeah but he's seen his mates do it they're not BMXers but you know what I mean well and a few of the kids have had a crack at being professional football players what kids the Beckhamers well yeah I think one of the Romeo isn't he oh I actually don't know semi-professionally and one of them's a singer who takes after Victoria who's the singer Cruz oh yeah so the apple never falls that far from the tree I guess we shouldn't judge should we correct we shouldn't judge whilst on the surface a lot of the stuff that we see in the beauty industry is pretty pretty pretty there's also a dark side and if you delve a little deeper and you start to really understand how a lot of these enormous brands operate you realize that we are being marketed to subconsciously all the time even when you're younger.

16:42Louise: And I don't believe that children who are in their teens really need to be using medical grade skincare. They don't need to be applying products with niacinamide and hyaluronic acid and other active ingredients in order to have good skin. Not at that age. Some of the people that I know with the best skin do use soap and water. but i i couldn't be more on board with that i think the like the bone of contention around this conversation is the age it's not the skincare and the makeup and the marketing like that's we're never going to change that and you're right it talks to us all the time yeah the only thing that's changed is probably the speed and our exposure to it but that's kind of now we're exposed to we created the rod for our own back really in this current climate with social media and marketing activations you see all the time yeah it's how you protect your children from that and making sure that they don't feel this pressure to conform to it and keep up with it.

17:42As an example, as a boy, my parents didn't let me have creatine and protein until I was 18. But as a boy, I first came across men's health magazines, probably age 15. And I was like, how do I look like that guy? But my dad, obviously he was my, my parents, they were like, we're not buying that for you until you're 18. You'll have, you'll have like protein sticks sausages and that didn't really work but um that's an example from a male's perspective it's like the the parents in that scenario it is a parental duty they protected me from stuff that could have actually affected my skin so maybe actually i ought to be thanking my mom

18:21Louise: for buying my wash bag and the entire contents of it to ship me off to boarding school with because it was really quite limited there were the bare essentials in there and if there'd been anything a little too spicy or a bit too exciting then I would have been addicted and there are obviously a lot of beauty influencers now a lot of them start at really young ages and you know there are there are even younger influencers who have brought out like lip balm brands and other sort of skin and makeup brands and when they're talking about running these like 12-step skincare programs it's unsurprising that you've got young people asking their parents for a really long list for their birthday and christmas and many many of these of these products are you know 20 or 30 pounds so it's actually not sustainable on the parents either like they can't afford to do that it's we're creating something that's so far removed from reality with what's on social media it's very perfect very polished it's like you know like the 12 who's got time for a 12-step routine like bloody hell i watched a video literally last week and this woman had not even joking like a 50 step routine before nine o 'clock she was standing on an acupressure mat she was putting um hair bands around her ears which i actually tried to help with lymphatic drainage so she was tying her ears together she had a copper tongue scraper she was oil pulling in her mouth.

19:50Louise: There were loads of things, like 10 different lasers. She was sat in front of red light machines. Actually, I watched it and thought, I've tried quite a few of these things before. I was curious about the water filter she was using. I'm so influenced when it comes to the health market. If your influence has been influenced at your age of 36. Yeah, thank you. These younger guys and girls, it's it's it's you're a sitting duck i want to talk about my fitness glow up are you impressed with my my attempts at uh getting back into fitness extremely are you yeah oh but you have to remember the louise i met however many years ago was like you loved exercise you'd eat up like sweets so just so you get back to that place where you feel ready mentally and physically to go and exercise and go by yourself and I think it's amazing it does feel really good so I found this new location in Fulham it's called Move is it called Move yeah and their classes are brilliant so would recommend if you live in southwest London it's a really beautiful community set up by a guy actually that we know quite well and the classes feel really different which is probably why I'm drawn to it because there's nothing there's I'm not triggered by the fitness actually that I've tried to do since having neo that hasn't worked out and has made me quite unwell and they have a class called range which is my new go-to and I'm going to try and learn how to do the splits you know you know they say there's a lot of trauma and deep emotion that gets stored in your hips so when I did the range class I was getting into a lot of positions at the pigeon position and I really struggled with them but I could feel this huge release and I'm I'd be lying if I said that I felt good afterwards so you didn't feel good I thought the thing about doing these classes so I've done maybe six classes in a 10-day period which is quite excessive um and I felt incredible doing the exercise but I have felt really

22:06Louise: you know because i've spoken about it at home like i felt really wiped out i felt wiped out and everyone feels wiped out after doing a class so i've had the muscle soreness or you feel like it's released it's released some stuff and it's actually been really really hard to deal with so back to the trauma being held in these joints then yeah but i don't understand how i've been this fit person my entire life that has been able to exercise and then since having leo and going through that trauma i haven't been able to exercise without it making me feel ill and i've got to a place where i'm i'm well enough to give it a really good go and there's so much resistance that i'm being met with my brain is literally telling me this exercise is going to make you ill again it's going to kill you like to the point where I'm like a couple of weeks in and I'm now already thinking okay how can I make a plan where I can still do this because I love doing it and I know that it's important for me that's not going to freak my nervous system out I also don't I'm not disputing that but I also think it's not all mental I think there is some physiological stuff there as well I think with this movement and with this release it's like a dam it's like you're you're taking down the dam you're getting this rush of new circulation through your body.

23:29Your joints have probably seized up muscles and tendons. They've shortened because you haven't used them. So your whole body has gone into this protective mode, slightly clamped up. Now you're moving in different ways with animal flow and rings and range and kettlebells. Like your body all of a sudden is being like opened back up. So you're getting this flow of energy and circulation of old and new blood and toxins are being pushed and hormone levels also, by the way from exercise they they get they get uh impacted hugely so all of this will contribute to the physiological sorry the psychological mental stuff that you've just touched on rather than running away from it i'm not suggesting that you are i think maybe just accept like what's happening on on a mental and a physiological level maybe six and ten days is a little bit too bunched together maybe have a bit more rest in between but i think that you will you'll go past this point of resistance where your body will relax into it.

24:27And you'll start to adapt really well and really probably quite quick. You and Sam seem to really have that gene.

24:34Louise: I think the plan is to keep going because I can't quit like I have the other times. But my intrusive thoughts have been terrible. So it is hard. you've got uh when football players get injured they have a circle of injury fear of avoidance and fear of um injury so you can go one of two ways with this it's like phantom crying like you can break your ankle a footballer can break their ankle and never recover from it even though the body's recovered they no longer have the trust to change direction and speed off their ankle because fear of injury careers have been shut down quickly well my career i mean obviously i'm not a professional football player but i have built an entire career out of but that's why sports psychologists exist ah you have to retrain your confidence in your body so what you're feeling now is is like it's it's not it's it's definitely something and it's definitely something that everyday people but athletes go through i feel so wonky in my head and i don't feel myself and i'm looking for answers and that's the problem and that's where the intrusive thoughts come in because i then get hyper fixated on it must be this it must be this it's my blood it's i've got vasculitis it's um something to do with my womb all of these horrendous thoughts come up and i get stuck in this loop where i'm just questioning what it is that's causing me not to feel normal you shouldn't be putting you shouldn't subject yourself to that level of chaos work work with someone control it that's the thing about mental health is it's sometimes uncontrollable okay but you can better manage it with someone to help you a sports psychologist or something like that who will instill the confidence and walk through that process with you it's the hormone crash that i struggle with well i think i think there's a It's a conversation for hormonal treatment to support your next steps.

26:33But I'm not in a position to obviously advise because I'm not a trained person.

26:38Louise: And now that we've done all of the egg sort of retrieval and the embryo process, I think that I can hopefully move forward with that. Because, you know, even as I was driving here, I was really thinking about it. It's playing on my mind a lot. Like I want to fix this problem. And I think that hormones could be a big part of it. They're so important in every physiological process in your body, not to mention muscle recovery. I think that should be your next focus within this realm of Louise's health and your journey with it. Definitely address the hormones. Okay. But also remember the context that you've endured an awful lot in a short space of time so your body won't be what it used to.

27:18So you have to be, what I'm saying is you have to sit and accept that and continue to do the good work and take the extra support from different people not just the trainers at this new class but have different conversations with with the likes of christian who asked about the psychological effects of this because it's it's not an injury but it is kind of like an injury almost you're you're coming back from an injury i have been really injured so what you're what you're going through is seen at the

27:46Louise: highest level of sports men and women so there's something there where you could really like extract a lot of value and support from wow i never thought about that from that perspective that these are athletes that literally lose their entire career and identity overnight. That is so massive. And I guess also in my mind, I think, oh, but why can't I get back to who I was before? I've lost five years. Like the last time I was really fit, I was in my 20s, which is bizarre to say that I'm now 36. So I had Leo at 31, but I was pregnant when I was 30. And so essentially I wasn't working out and I wasn't at full capacity.

28:25Louise: during that period. So I was only really fit in my twenties. And I look back now and think, oh, like, why can't I do that now? But so many changes occur when you're in your bloody thirties, especially as a woman. And I loathe to admit it. Because we're still young and I've got so much life in me. To make you feel better about this, we together did a core class yesterday for 30 minutes. Bearing in mind, you've had several surgeries on your core. I've had none. And I'm on the mat next to you. shaking like a dog and sweating more than you are and probably giving up sooner than you were so like you're doing pretty well yeah so there's that's that's also something for you to acknowledge and really see i'm you know on paper apparently man alive was like you're one of the fittest blokes i've met on this podcast come and watch me in that class not so much well that does actually make me that actually does make me feel better right so i'll just come to these classes with you then you can laugh at me you know how you mentioned about finding psychological support yeah you're actually really good at it so can you you can move my psychological but the thing is i am i am actually very good at it but i just don't think you would take it from me in the same way that when i used to try and like coach you with the actual training you'd end up coaching me no you'd be like no that's not how you swap i was i'd ask her i'd ask her to do something she'd be like she would do it and i would sort i would what was an example of this lunges i was trying to tell louise that this is about 10 years ago i was trying to get i was trying to get it through to you that lunges are a tremendous exercise for like shape and and building of the booty and all the kind of like leg stuff that at the time you were after i was like we don't have to just back squat the whole time awkward i was like let's do some walking lunges with some weight in your hand or across your shoulders.

30:14And you like, you basically tried to like completely rewrite the script on like physical adaptations to that exercise. And you're like, no, it doesn't work because of this. Because actually these muscles are being used and not that one. I was like, sorry? I thought I had like spent years training in this field. And now you're telling me that I'm wrong. And that we should do a different exercise.

30:33Louise: I just don't like lunges. So I was trying to get out of it. No, I tried. I tried really hard when we first started training together. I literally remember that first time that we exercised and I was dying inside. I feel like this is a dynamic that like many relationships can relate to. Like what's an example? Well, working with your partner is a nightmare. I will say something to you like, Louise, I really like that plait you had in your hair yesterday with the hair down. You look like a sort of, you look like Xena, the warrior princess or something. You won't hear it or you'll be like, nah, it looks crap.

31:09Someone else, like Will from the gym will tell you. And you'd be like, thanks. And then you'll do it again like the next day. And I'm like, like examples like this happen all the time in relationships. And that's like not even a very good one.

31:23Louise: Oh no. Yeah, you're probably right. Yeah. But no guys telling me my hair looks good just for context. Let me think of another example. But maybe, you actually said that my outfit looked really shit when I went to the gym with you a few days ago. Listen, I've given you a compliment. Take that. Your outfit, questionable. You look like you were going on a geography field trip. Why? You had black leggings, no, black shorts with shorts on top. You had white socks and, by the way, I hate, some people can carry it off, but white socks and black trainers, that's a hard thing to pull off. Wait, she's also saying, uh-uh.

31:58Louise: Why is that about, wait, I didn't know that that was a thing. Some people can carry it off. Listen, I'm going to say that, but I don't think you can. i don't think you can wait so white socks and black trainers is a no-no you had my you look like you've got your dad's socks on because you've got mine on they're big bulky white socks black trainers tight compression shorts with floaty shorts on top yes and then a like tight vest i'm like bruh you've got it wrong it's really hard to dress for the gym when it's this hot and you want to wear shorts, but you don't want to have your vagina out. No, I'm sorry.

32:35Louise: These classes are really intense. People are on the floor literally like this for most of it. I could see everybody. Actually, I shouldn't say that because then everyone will cover up in the class because they might listen to it. But no one's looking at my rat. Everyone on the back row is just looking at the person's bum in front of them. That's unavoidable. Then what else can you do? I didn't look at any butts in my, I'm shaking so hard. You were at the front. No, but I've been in other classes. Oh. When you don't, you never look at a bum. If I do, it's like... Don't lie. Well, okay. Well, if I do, I'm not, I'm not like examining like for longer than, I'll like look over to see like, is everyone else doing what I'm doing?

33:12Oh, she's doing it. Oh, and then I'm back in.

33:14Louise: Yeah. And then you're like, oh, she's got a good bum. But that'll be it. Okay. So if I was just wearing the loose shorts over the top, if I'm doing that pose, everyone's going to see my underwear. So then you're not just looking at the bum, the peach through the shorts. you're actually looking at my pants and that's a bit provocative. Okay, fair enough. Okay, you wear what you feel safe in. But I actually thought the outfit was good, so I'm going to wear it again. Do you check people out in the gym? Are you scanning crotches in the gym? Yes. No, it's more like girls I'm checking out in the gym.

33:45There's one guy at the gym who I've actually teed him up. I'm like, Louise, check him out.

33:49Louise: I'm so glad you've said it first. Did you check him out? This is so awkward because we're talking about this and I'm literally going to be going to this gym every day. Fuck it. Give a compliment where it's due. Okay, there's basically, girls, get down to this gym. All of the trainers are 10 out of 10. All of them? I thought there was one. Fuck's sake. Even the girls. All of them. There's something quite motivating about - Who told you? No. Thanks, G. This is good. Fuck it. If it gets you out of the house - Yeah, fine. She doesn't even mind. All of them. Not all of them, but no. On the subject of sports and fitness and health, we've got the Football World Cup coming up real soon.

34:27How do you feel about that?

34:29Louise: Woo! Oh. Pretty excited.

34:41Hi, this is Brooke DeVard from Naked Beauty. I am always looking for ways to elevate our daily rituals. and the Kohler Smart Toilet is proof that design changes everything. It's this stunning sculptural piece that feels like quiet luxury for your bathroom. It totally transforms your daily ritual into something elevated with customizable cleansing and touchscreen controls. It's functional art that makes your space feel cleaner and more intentional. A modern home deserves a modern toilet. Experience the difference of Kohler Smart Toilets. Find more at Kohler.com.

35:19Hi!

35:20Louise: Who here loves when their nails are perfectly done? Me! I'm Sarah Gibson Tuttle and I started Olive in June because, let's be real, we all deserve to have gorgeous nails, but who wants to spend a fortune or half their day at the salon? And that's why I created the Manny System, so you can have that salon-perfect manicure right at home. And guess what? The best part? Each Manny only costs$2. Yep, you heard me,$2. No more$30,$40,$50 salon trips that eat up your day. Now you can paint your nails whenever you want, wherever you want. And trust me, you're going to be obsessed with your nails and everyone is going to ask you, where did you get your nails done?

35:58And here's a little something extra. Head over to OliveInJune.com and get 20 % off your first Manny system with code PERFECTMANNY20 at OliveInJune.com slash PERFECTMANNY20. That's code PERFECTMANY20 for 20 % off at olivanjune.com slash PERFECTMANY20. You're all set for a nail glow up. Let's get those nails looking fabulous, shall we?

36:27Louise: I like people seeing people happy and cheering. Sweating and glowing. And sweating and glowing, clearly. And like drinking a beer in a pub outside. It's summery. it's nice when people actually the good thing about the world cup is that everybody is supporting almost everybody's supporting the same team depending on where you live thing about football is i've never fully gotten into the sport why into the game you're really not a football hooligan like all the other guys that i know my dad oh my dad bought me my first football strip age nine and it was because my dad supported everton so he bought me an everton strip with my name on the back and I loved it and I can I have moments and I have memories and mental postcards from my childhood of being around the tv and you've got the sound of the football world cup and my dad is is a sports fan across the spectrum so by default me and my brothers are as well we love sport but football back to the whole like being a PT so much of the conversation with male clients was about football and I had to work so hard to like get into the conversation and pretend like I knew what I was talking about.

37:37But the game of football, I don't necessarily love it. I love sport and I love what it creates, the energy and the atmosphere and the patriotism. And I love the flags out the car windows. We're about to see that kick off in a big way with World Cup coming. I love the unity and the bringing together of communities and people. I'm definitely going to get Leo involved because I want him, because there is every likelihood that he will remember elements of this World Cup being his first world cup is it yeah this would be like his first exposure to a football walkout he like you keep telling me that he's good at football so he's so good at football who knows what it would do who knows what it would do this might be a tiger woods situation where he watches at age four and he's like oh i want to do that you never know so i i love the i love the sport i don't necessarily love the game of football as much as other people but i'm going to get fully

38:34Louise: invested this world cup it's kind of a big part of just being a man like you've got to choose a team in a similar way to your dad uh buying you the everton shirt my dad bought uh sam a crystal palace shirt because that was the team that he supported it's maybe a way that it's something that brings together fathers and sons who otherwise have very little to talk about i've got some purple rugby shorts which are exeter chiefs i freaking love wearing them to the gym and going for a run because you get the occasional person who spots the emblem on your shorts and you're like, we're about to have a conversation, aren't we?

39:09Louise: That's so cute. It's an in. It's an in. Why is this the sweetest thing to me? Because your eyes are opening to how men connect to sport. Because men are actually really lovely, simple creatures. So you said that you pretended that you liked football when you were younger, kind of to fit in. A little bit, yeah. Is there anything else that you used to do? To pretend? Yes. I reckon for a number of years, I pretended to like beer just to have that like manly moment with a friend or my dad, or I've got, I actually do have memories of him being, it wasn't even that long ago. It was probably in the last eight years, six, eight years.

39:48I remember chewing myself, chewing through a pint of ale because my dad was drinking ale. I was like, this is delicious. It was not.

39:57Louise: Why do men have to like beer? I feel like Sam's actually one of the only people I know that won't take up the offer of a beer when asked. I need to tell you something about beer because you would have seen this play out in my life as well because when I did that Marathon de Sabe last year, whenever it was, when I finished that race, I had a cold Casablanca beer, which has unleashed something inside of Ryan because I now can't, I can't say no to a cold bottle of beer. You drink beer every day now. When I tell you that I love beer now. Which is funny because if you'd known Ryan before, it's like really weird that you drink every day.

40:31Well, Ryan before that was pretending that he liked a pint of ale. Now I'm like, yes, I'll have a bottle of beer.

40:37Louise: So it's taken you 34 years? It's taken me 35 years. What is an ale then? What's the difference between an ale and a lager? Better ask. She like literally loves to drop in every weekend. She's like, yeah, I had a few beers in the park this weekend. Yeah, but that's kind of, that's kind of fun though, isn't it? What's, so I think I like a Corona with a bit of lime in, which is so. No, that's great. That's my speed. Is that good? Is that a lager? Yeah, it's a very light lager. easy drinker Peroni similar vibe bit stronger Modelo that's the king of beers that's for me that's the one I have in my fridge and everyone comments where do you buy Modelo no one can find it I've got my little I've got my little spot stunning yeah what about you you've definitely pretended to like stuff I've pretended to like so many things I'm such a loser I would have pretended to like beer whiskey like trying to show off in front of boys doing shots like martinis to be sophisticated on first dates like oh yeah martini shaken not stirred like I'm in James Bond what else?

41:36Smoking? What did you say?

41:38Louise: Yeah no I actually did used to smoke a lot when I was younger used to smoke a lot at school we'd go to the woods just sit in a circle like there was a campfire in the middle but the campfire was basically just like all of our cigarette packets and we'd smoke and I would feel so light headed and rough but I just kept going and you did it because you felt like you had to fit in a bit like me with my football chat Well, I couldn't really go exactly like that. I couldn't really go and not smoke just to hang out. So like you couldn't go to the pub and not wear like a football shirt, just sort of mingle and watch people.

42:10Louise: You've got to get stuck in in that environment. I don't think I do anything anymore that I think is cool. I did do a cold plunge a couple of days ago. I can't believe you posted that. Do you know the worst part of that is that I've actually created videos before that I've shared on my social media saying that there are things that I do to make, to keep myself healthy and well. And I think I've just sort of, I think I've included a cold plunge in there somewhere. And now you've revealed the truth. Having not really done a cold plunge in a very long time. Oh my. Maybe a cold shower is more realistic.

42:43I don't know where to begin with that video. If anyone's not seen it, please go and find it. There's so much like movement under the water that creates like this bobble with your head. Because my body thinks of dying. mate the facial expressions it's actually quite unbelievable i'm so sorry mate it's funny but

43:01Louise: fuck i can't go in this in this ice bath in our basement for honestly 10 minutes and just sit in there cool as a cucumber but if you've done it you made it look so easy so i thought anything you can do i could do better and pop my legs over the edge leo was also there and you were hurrying me along but there was only one way i was going to do it and i was just going fully under I was hurrying you along because I didn't want you to like, once you start like rehearsing and going through it in your mind, you're like, oh, I'm out. I was like, no, just do it. And then to be fair, you did go fully under.

43:32Louise: I don't think that was good for my brain. I think it was really good. I got brain freeze. And then afterwards told me that it like vasodilates all of your blood vessels. No, constricts. And then, so when you're in the cold, your body basically, so all of your blood vessels constrict to try and keep all of the blood circulating around your key organs, so your heart, your lungs, and everything you need to survive, which is why this is not something that someone who has PTSD should do, because I feel like I'm constantly in a state of survival. And then when you get warm afterwards, they open, you get this flush of blood.

44:04Correct.

44:05Louise: That flushes everything out of your body. all I got was a really really hot back like burning hot back and a headache so no more cold plunge for you then no I've got written down here crazy sex decisions well you pretended to like those as well actually I don't want to fucking know about that oh my god sometimes a girl just wants to lie on her back and have a little missionary in her life let me tell you something right now No bloke wants to do that. Why not? No, just explain, because it's just exercise. Leo's going to listen to this one day. Leo's four, he's never listened to it. One day he's going to listen to this.

44:44Louise: No, he won't. Missionary's not for the blokes. Why? It's like lying on a log. You don't get anything back. Well, hey, I'm not like a log, Ryan. I put something into it. That's actually really insulting. Fucking hell. Hang on, I'm not a log. No, but that is kind of what missionary suggests. I think there's another reason you're hiding. There's not. Well, can we just talk about football there? Wait, is it because you don't want to look at my face? No! It's not that at all. Why don't we keep this PG, yeah? We've got to listen to a question and I'm going to read it to you this week, Louise. Stunning.

45:26What is the best life lesson slash piece of advice you've learned?

45:30Louise: God, hard to come up with one. Yeah. I feel like something that I learned recently I was writing a Substack article on this if anyone wants to follow it's called Louise Loves Writing the best works on there um I I basically it's funny because this isn't necessarily a bit of advice that anybody else taught me but it was more something I taught myself and going through a hard time yeah you've learned yeah so i'm experiencing something at the moment i'm finding quite challenging every time i scroll through my instagram feed i see a pregnancy notification or someone that's had a healthy delivery and i'm finding it quite triggering and i'm also finding it's unlocking a few new emotions in me i think previously i've just blocked this sort of stuff out i'm like it's so irrelevant to me that it just i don't even need to feel anything about it and I think that now we're getting really quite close to the reality of being able to have another child through surrogacy and we're like and it's happening quite quickly I'm really having to accept the fact that I'm not going to carry a child myself and so seeing other people doing that is making me feel quite sad but what I wrote about in this piece was that it's actually possible to feel multiple emotions at the same time and I find that quite liberating and I wish that someone had told me that when I was going through a really really hard time because you can feel sadness and joy at the same time you can be grieving the loss of something that you'll never have but also feel happy for other people that something good is happening to them and I find that if I'm going through something rough at the moment I try to remember that there's always something that I can cling on to that will provide me with with happiness I saw joy and and actually I did write about this but even when I was in a really really dark spot and I used to do a lot of walking because who was it that Socrates always used to say if you're in a bad mood go for a walk if you're still in a bad mood go for another walk unsurprisingly I spent a lot of time just pacing around different outdoor spaces um I would find like little little moments of joy even in amongst all of the terror even if that joy looked like seeing my dog's happy i'm not laughing at the idea of like my dog's smiling even though you know they don't have a mouth like we do um and so i think yeah my message to people would be that

48:16Louise: you can sit with multiple emotions you can sit with multiple emotions yeah i don't know if that makes any sense i think it's a very hard thing to do though it is really hard real conflict

48:29Louise: maybe it comes with life experience so the more challenging things you go through the more you learn how to deal with the multiple is it a way of rationalizing something maybe is it a way of being like this really this really sucks but actually it could be worse or there's even though that bad event is happening to me right now there's also some good stuff happening over here so it's redirecting yeah your thoughts into a more positive place i think that is definitely the case with this fertility battle whilst i feel sad seeing all these people have this amazing i feel sorry that doesn't sound right i feel happy that these people are going through something that i can't i feel sad that i can't so already there there is like a conflict in emotions.

49:16Louise: I also am able to redirect and find joy elsewhere. Could you say that it's like, if you're taking a photo and you're tight on something, you're like, oh, it's blurry, but then you zoom out and you've got loads of beautiful detail and you've got like little squirrels hopping across trees and you've got this beautiful stuff happening around, but you have to zoom out from it to see it. Is that what you're saying? I really like that analogy. And yes. should i write your substance yes please it would help um when you're in a really deep and dark place

49:58Louise: your vision of the world is really small like you see everything through a really tiny lens do you remember when i was really really unwell and when i was pacing myself pacing around on these walks all i would see was other people that were mentally unwell and a lot of sadness. So this comes back to the idea of zooming out. And then I had to zoom out a little bit more to then be able to see other things. So what you're saying is you've learnt the skill to zoom out in life. Yes. And also to remember that in five years time, nothing will feel as significant as it does now. It's quite a large timeframe.

50:35Is that enough of a comfort to know? Maybe it is.

50:38Louise: Well, I remember a friend of mine sending me a graphic when I was not well and it had a little person and they were carrying like a balloon as you know it was a world it was a picture of the world and it was like they were carrying the weight of the world on their shoulders and that world got considerably smaller over a five-year period and even though that was a shocking amount of time it's still like the visual element of it made me feel really good it was like whatever you're carrying now will feel that much more than a few years and basically insignificant in five years like it won't even be a problem you'll be worrying about 100 new problems in five years time it will disappear it will evaporate like whatever your biggest problem is right now it will have evaporated in five years it won't exist but are you saying that you've lived and experienced that yourself well yeah i'm actually nearly five years into my trauma recovery and the problem whilst we talk openly about how it still affects me with the fitness side of things bar that that roadblock the problem has almost disappeared then that's great advice to pass forward because you've learned it and now you've redistributed it that's what advice is by the way like that's that's that's great you cherry pick and you keep moments that you've learned from in life and then you pass it forward in your interpretation in your interpretation isn't that crazy though that it does take almost five years like it leaves four and a half now everything's on its own timer the universe has got its own metronome everything happens when it's meant to which leads me on to my best advice yes what's your best advice everything is almost everything is a transfer and exchange of energy so a conversation a hug artwork a sale or a purchasing of something, a, I don't know, this is probably the best example, everything, everything in life, a conversation like this, but much bigger.

52:41And you can extrapolate into all areas of life. Everything is an exchange of energy. And I think sat here, as I've gotten older, and this is a learned experience, it's what, what am I giving off in terms of energy? Am I anxious? And is that making you anxious? Am I distracted or am I invested? am i um am i present or you know there's there's a lot of there's a lot of signals in energy and i think my advice to people now is to do do whatever is necessary for you to set your energy right because everything flows from there for example me right energy do you think you shut down energy

53:19Louise: if you if you're feeling like something's going to affect you if something's a drain versus a radiator oh yeah it's not kind of yeah warming you up but it's sapping you yeah this is something like this isn't something i've learned i should say i'm learning i'm learning the the impact and the importance of energy and how and how everything in life is is an exchange between people's energy riding my bike here today for me sets my energy so I can have a conversation with you today and feel like we can go almost anywhere with it and I'm not going to lead with ego or irrational behavior or you know I'm set and that that that can be applied to almost I think every moment in life do what's necessary to set your energy and everything flows from there

54:19that's the advice i got given protecting energy protects yeah yeah yes protect your energy because your energy is your energy no one can replicate that it's made up of such bespoke ingredients that is louise so your energy is really unique and powerful so the best thing you can do at the start of your day or any part of a day is to protect it and set it right so that it's holy louise and then you can take that into any room any conversation any meeting any introduction does that make sense yeah totally

54:54Louise: what i'm finding interesting is so i think that this is similar to the analogy of um put your own life jacket on first before helping others you've got to fill up your own cup so that you can then distribute your your energy well to others like look after other people but the way that you're using the term energy feels quite specific to you because you've interpreted this i think because of your own personal experience and that's what's really interesting to me as your partner is that you are obviously feeling like

55:35Louise: it's why it's like you're in a place right like you've you've like recognized something recently you've had like in a bit of an epiphany

55:46well i think when when mums and dads become mums and dads or men and women can become parents there's this loss of identity with that is a loss of energy so it's the same thing as that it's like reclaiming who you are like what makes me feel good what makes me tick operate how what things do i need to do in order to present my best self in every department of life and i think energy is just the universal currency for that okay so in summary your advice is or your learnings any

56:16Louise: problem we have right now will have evaporated in five years time it won't feel significant and also So it is fine to feel multiple emotions at the same time. In fact, I'd lean into feeling multiple emotions at the same time. Okay. And my advice is do what's necessary to set your energy before you go into scenarios in life. Because if you can do that, you've got a better chance of presenting your best self. Love that. We thought it would be really fun to add in a, like a new little feature at the end of the podcast and so we're going to give some recommendations because i love a recommendation well then what's your recommendation and it's going to be sorry just a weekly recommendation yes this is great i know i thrive off of this um so we've started watching this new show it's called legends it's on netflix it is unbelievably good and it's also something that ron and i can watch together which is quite rare so if you're a couple and you're struggling for something to watch i'd highly recommend it's got steve coogan in it without giving too much away essentially it's set at the time when thatcher is prime minister there's a huge heroin crisis i'm like you don't need to just let them go and find it anyone that loved is like interested in like the drug scene it's fascinating so the country are basically trying to figure out where the problem is coming from and it pins it on these two destinations so liverpool and london and there are different people that are operating running the operations right now you don't need to watch and a legend is basically someone that's a normal civilian that has been appointed to have this role where they can infiltrate the the system to be fair quite an accurate synopsis well done you you have been watching that's good Usually you're not, you're not watching.

58:13I'm present. Yeah.

58:14Louise: Because if something's good, if it gets my attention, then I'm in. I'm all in and I can't wait to finish it. My recommendation this week is, is nothing to do with entertainment. Maybe it is a form of entertainment. I love barbecues. As you know, I love cooking outdoors. What I've recently discovered is a game changer. I know what you're going to say. What am I going to say? Prawns pill pill. No, but it's not bad. It's the fact that you can use a cast iron pan on the grill and you can do dishes like a prawns pill pill. so on the weekend I did a bunch of uh prawns fresh chili garlic olive oil lemon salt and pepper and I stuck it on the grill and it just bubbled away and the taste was you can verify this yeah I think one of the key learnings here was that well I've tried to do a prawns pill pill for years and I've always cooked them in butter wrong for some reason the butter seems to draw out all of the water from the prawns they get really soggy and you need a really generous bit of olive oil there yeah but my recommendation is if you've got a barbecue and you love cooking outdoors you don't have to just maybe make the mistake that i did where you think well the barbecue is only really like steak sausages pork lamb kebabs no no no everything you can put a cast iron pan on there it might be an expensive investment but it unlocks a whole new culinary experience for an outdoor beast love it fried egg mate i did fried egg and bacon on there bloody works breakfast lunch and dinner solved.

59:36Mate, I'm going to do a frigging stir fry out there. And also because it's barbecue,

59:37Louise: you don't really need to wash any of it up. Just leave it out there. Cast down fans, same. Stays there until tomorrow. Yeah, you just wipe it down with the kitchen roll. Shut that lid, don't have to see it. Mate, I love it. I got it from LaCruise, if anyone's interested. Love a little LaCruise. Yeah. I did want to give you guys a surrogacy update because there are a few things that I feel like we could share, but I think we'll save that for next week just because we've got through so much meaty stuff already today. what I will say is that before the end of this week we are going to be introduced to a retentious argument match so maybe we can talk about that it's kind of a big deal wow sir yeah on that on that function we will see you next week happy barbecuing yes hope you've enjoyed the episode please give us some support and some love follow us on Instagram check us out on YouTube hit the subscribe button on Spotify and Apple yeah you're a Spotify listener I'm an Apple podcast listener I'm a Spotify girl I am a Spotify girl by the way it's my favourite app in the world is it?

1:00:37yeah

1:00:37Louise: big claim the Discover Weekly lights me up every week yeah fair play and if you want to send in a listener question please do because we will we'll always try our best to get through them our email address is hsss at srproductions.co.uk you can also find it below thanks see you next week bye

1:01:16Hi, this is Brooke DeVard from Naked Beauty. I am always looking for ways to elevate our daily rituals, and the Kohler Smart Toilet is proof that design changes everything. It's this stunning sculptural piece that feels like quiet luxury for your bathroom. It totally transforms your daily ritual into something elevated with customizable cleansing and touch screen controls. It's functional art that makes your space feel cleaner and more intentional. A modern home deserves a modern toilet. Experience the difference of Kohler smart toilets. Find more at Kohler.com.