Louise’s BIG epiphany

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0:42Good morning. Good morning. Is that weird? Have I done that on the pod before? Yeah. Yeah, quite regularly. Not regular enough. I've told you before that I love it when you do that. So now I do it with Leo. I go down and up with my finger when we're singing it. Like I'm a music instructor. Orchestra. No, what's a conductor? A conductor. A bus conductor. Wait, is it a conductor? Yeah, it's a conductor, isn't it? Orchestra conductor. Do you know what's funny? Is on the weekend, we found ourselves watching Songs of Praise. No, no, no, no. Morning Has Broken. No, you flicked it on and you just so happened to land on your favourite song.

1:22Yeah. That was nice. It's also a slightly scarring song because it's the song that I auditioned to - For the school choir. For Junior Choral at school and all my friends got in. And when I went over, shuffled over, you know, the hustle and bustle of people, like pushing all the girls to try and see the sheet that was on the wall with all of the names. Went on there, were you? Scanning down. I wasn't on there. Devastated. They all got to go on a trip to Venice and I was left out, so. Didn't have the pipes for it, did you? I've definitely not got pipes. I think my brother was told to mime in the choir.

1:54No, not even in the choir, sorry. Just in chapel service every morning. He was told to mime he was that bad. Which one, Adam or Gareth? Adam, yeah. I feel like we're at an age now where it's actually cool to sing really loudly. So if you go to a wedding or a Christmas carol concert, like the louder the better. Yeah, I'm just not that guy. I wish I was, but I'm not. Why do you go coy in that scenario? It's not that unusual to go coy in that scenario, by the way. Yeah, like at my cousin's daughter's christening was probably the last time we were in a church. Yeah. You know what that's reminding me of?

2:30What? Well, I was thinking about groups of coy people and then it made me think of your birthday, which we had. Firstly, it's really tough having a birthday on a Monday. so basically ryan ryan had a birthday and it's safe to say it was a bit of a flop no it wasn't a flop it was a flop we had to have a counseling session about it afterwards no we literally sought counsel in the bedroom we had to sit down and talk about why it wasn't the birthday of your dreams it was fine it was low-key it was it's also also we were a group of 13 of which seven were kids it was pretty ad hoc wasn't it we didn't organize a lot we were supposed to have this sort of lunch meeting on the weekend meeting a set of our friends parents to talk about quite serious stuff and then we just threw in a few members of family no we were we were going for like a nice lunch weren't we and then it turned into a bit of a mishmash because we had your family come which was nice and gorge and how about they should be but then there was a couple without any kids and it was just a slightly weird mixture of people I think we should step away from the topic of my birthday because I actually had a great time and I know I was aware that it was a little bit of a one-dimensional dynamic with the personalities but that's all right where I'm at in life that's all right and like I said there was seven kids there and when you've got that many kids uh and a few of them are brand new as in like four or five weeks old you have to accept that it's not going to be a raucous event um so you know what and actually there was a there was a magic moment within that weekend where my mum surprised me and that was incredible because she's never lied to me before she lied to me about that she was like I can't make it I feel a bit unwell it's a long journey I was like that's all fair enough actually and then she freaking showed up normally i put in a huge amount of effort for your birthday and we planned something really special and i just feel as though i was a bit disorganized with it so i'll take the brunt of that one and also i'm not particularly good at hosting in that environment where you know a sit-down meal is one thing like there's a waiter they come over they send you food there's this is like a bit of a playbook isn't there for how a meal goes people know that they They can arrive.

4:55They have a drink at the bar first. You sit down, you have good conversation, you're sandwiched between people. This was just like a bit of a free for all. And I think I learned a lot of lessons from it is that like I need to go and get loads of drinks from the bar at the beginning and like set up a bit of a station and make a plan. And I think it's just like one of life's lessons. Don't worry, you'll get a little shot next year. My 36 people is going to be off the chain. um but yeah so i think we should i had what i'd like to do actually because i've i've listened back to a few episodes of this podcast recently and i would really like to get to a place where we can start having conversations that are kind of led by our feelings and they don't always have to be good feelings they can be a mixture of bad or good but i guess i want to ask you some questions which might tap into that a little bit um and i guess you don't even have to be prepared or overthink it so what in recent weeks or days has given you like a strong feeling and like i say it can be a an uncomfortable feeling or a happy feeling just think of think of the array of motions emotions because i think if we collectively as parents i think we've I had a lot of moments where we're like, it's like this wild collision of emotions, which, well, I can answer the same question, but let's start with you.

6:24The first thing that's popping into my head is that I feel like I'm someone that feels so deeply. And actually, I felt such a wide variety of emotions in this last week. I've had, I felt anxious. I felt proud. I felt sad and I felt a lot of joy as well. You've been on a rollercoaster. Gosh, am I listing off all of the, what are the emotions in Inside Out? Pretty much those, yeah. Pretty much those. Joy is the key one. Yeah. Rollercoaster week then. Rollercoaster week. Actually, something that I just, has popped into my head. I had a call with a production company and it was to discuss a potential um tv show that's being pitched and it's around inflammatory bowel diseases and i felt like i was slightly unprepared actually for the meeting because just juggling a lot of stuff um jumped onto the call was slightly i hadn't been sent a lot of information before the call actually so I was almost feeling like a little bit dismissive like oh is this going to be a good use of my time because I just I've had quite a few if I'm really honest I've had quite a few meetings with production companies over the last few years really wanting to get a tv project off the ground either surrounding birth trauma or inflammatory bowel diseases and um a lot of them felt like a waste of time because there's been no follow-up or people have left and um so I was a little bit judgmental anyway jumped on this call and had a really really beautiful open conversation with two people who both had their own experiences with um an IBD the guy's wife had has struggles with Crohn's and colitis and one of the um and the girl who was on the call woman should I say has actually had a stoma bag for 25 years and she's not told anybody and I don't know why it's gonna make the car on the call on the call on the on the pod now but i felt so i felt like so deep in that moment i felt so i don't know it was just i felt so connected to her because her vulnerability was just so beautiful like and i i'd also just felt really um sad for her that she hasn't got to a place where she can share that news with people um was she a person or was she a producer on this potential show a producer on the potential show yeah oh wow okay yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so it was obviously like a big passion project for her right i don't obviously want to give away too much information about her because i shouldn't be the one to then announce that she has has a soma so i need to be mindful of that but that was really um i guess an example of how you can like jump into an example of how our worlds are quite weird because every day you face so many different conversations with people that can go in any direction.

9:28I think then to make it, um, to go in a direction that more people will relate to, the, I had a moment where I was in the kitchen over the weekend and I turned around. Oh, why is that making me like, I shouldn't feel sad. I felt like it was really cute, but I saw like Leo on his bike. I don't want to cry. Like I really want to stare away from this like crybaby reputation. But I saw Leo on his bike like perched up against a wall and he was talking to himself as if he had an imaginary friend.

10:10And it was such a beautiful moment again. I guess Leah's our only child so we're still first-time parents and we're navigating all of those milestones for the first time and you don't really know what to expect when you only have one child you have nothing to compare it to um so I didn't know whether that was normal but actually one of the ladies that I worked with quite closely on my book she had two children who were in the next phase if you like they're a little bit older they were at school and one of them her daughter had an imaginary friend you will not believe what the imaginary friend was called it was called and she couldn't she couldn't find an appropriate way to explain what that word was and it was just it was something that when when I was talking you know about going through the really hard like grieve grievous process of writing the book we would we would talk about that and it would bring a little bit of light to the shade of the subject matter of the book but so I guess that's what I'm going to do here because now I don't want to get super upset about this but I never thought that Leo would have an imaginary friend and he was having this conversation about he was asking his friend whether they had a bike and a tractor and it was just so sweet and it made me fall in love with him so much but I guess equally and probably one of the reasons why it's jerking tears is because I guess for a second I thought oh god is this because he doesn't have any siblings and you just don't know.

11:43You just don't know what's normal, really. But actually, I shared a little bit of it on my social media just because I found it so sweet. And I really did not want him to see that I was filming it either because I did not want to kill his vibe. And I didn't want to feel like such a voyeur. And I've become a lot more mindful about social media around Leo lately um for a reason i can talk about in a bit but yeah i just captured this really sweet moment a lady got in touch with me and she said oh um a child having an imaginary friend is a sign of intelligence and immediately i thought okay we're good i've got nothing to worry about here well i think that's a really good example of how a really powerful feeling has hit you this week but there'll be so many people who can connect with that story as well both stories in fact you know being around someone who's perhaps suffering with some kind of medical condition which isn't too far removed from you know maybe their own situation or people family friends they know and leo's example seeing him in his own little imaginary you know fantastical realm that he's currently in i think that's very normal for kids i'm pretty sure i had imaginary friends did you yeah because i don't remember ever having an imaginary friend and it's interesting that you sort of had a slightly different lens in that moment where you thought you maybe felt guilt at the same time because you were like oh he hasn't got his brother or sister and i think that's probably more of a reflection of your um feelings versus leo's reality in that moment yeah because actually he wouldn't he doesn't know any better no he's got obviously friends and he's got his cousins and he's got his playmates and whatever else but ultimately he knows that we're a family of i was going to say three but he he never leaves out koji and toto in conversation we are a family of five he doesn't know any different right now but it's to to like really get on the same level of you with this conversation i've had many moments like this where i'm just completely stopped in my tracks because i've just caught a glimmer of something that's happening in leo's world and it's made me feel very um reflective and it like it really sits on me in a deep heavy way and that's not meant to sound sad but it's it's such a powerful feeling um and i think i've become increasingly aware of these moments um and feel it much more than i ever did and i've been speaking to some friends about it in recent days and recent weeks and um i think what i'm trying to get at is that when you really you know stop to notice these moments and let your like heart feel what it what's what it wants to feel and your soul kind of like sing with happiness it's those are the moments that make not just parenthood but you know life i think those are the moments that really piece it all together and give you that sense of purpose is the wrong word but maybe fulfillment

15:10um and i think i don't know i don't know when i feel like i feel like there's been something that's changed in my world in recent months where I just have a very different lens on and I look at things so differently and I'm really searching for the sort of deeper meaning behind things. Isn't that such a nice feeling? It is actually yeah. Do you know what I had do you remember actually not to take it back to your birthday but I feel in a similar spot to you I took a call when I was away in Windsor with a total stranger, with this lady who is in her 70s, to talk about something business related.

15:56Something within that moment lit up inside me where I felt like I had almost like an epiphany. It was a feeling that I'd never felt before. And it was like I'd unlocked this new cheat code. And I think it's one of the gifts of trauma. Basically, I pushed myself to do something that felt very out of my comfort zone. I've never been particularly good at talking to adults, people that are older than me, having serious, sensible conversations because of this imposter syndrome that I've lived with for so much of my life. and and I broke the bro free from the shackles of that yeah that cage and I had that call on that call and I had this call and you very kindly took Leo out when I took that call because I couldn't have been distracted I needed to be in the right headspace and I was very very nervous in the build up to this call and I spoke to this woman and I was so honest and I was so myself I didn't need to act I didn't need to pretend that I was anybody else that I was smarter than myself that I knew any more than I did about the business stuff that we were talking about and I learned from her and I said I'm really enjoying this conversation because there's so much that I can learn from you and I'm looking for mentors at this stage in my life and afterwards I had this weird like feeling as though I had this like burning oracle inside me it was like this sort of this soul like this ball of like energy that's great yeah and I felt so good and afterwards I I just, I was like reveling in it.

17:27And I remember I came and joined you and Leo then and you guys were having a juice over in the kind of living area, which is funny because that's where Drake had slept a few nights before. But I came over and I just felt like I was floating. I felt whimsical, like this fairy. And I kind of breezed over and I was just happy to sit in silence for half an hour and just really, really think about what had just happened. But for so many years, and this phone call that we don't need to go into the detail, but it was about like properties development and investment and all that sort of stuff. I've always known that that was like your calling.

18:01I've seen you operate in these conversations and these searches online. And I see how into just property in general that you are. That is one of those moments. And like you say, you felt like you had an orb or like this ball of energy that was lighting you up from the inside out. Those are the moments that I think reassure us or even indicate, offer a signal to us that that's the path that we're meant to be on. I'm pretty sure that people most, I reckon most people most days ask themselves, am I on the right path? And when you have moments like that, which are quite far and few between, but when they happen, they're so powerful and it kind of lifts you.

18:42You feel like you're hovering, almost like elevating in the air. Yeah, have you had that too? I had it yesterday. Yes. Oh my God. Which I'll get to in a minute. But this is why I like to talk about what we're talking about. Because you've just not discovered it. You knew it already. But you're reliving it. And it's reconfirming in your mind. Like, you're right. That is where I'm supposed to be moving towards. Do you know how lucky we are to feel like this? Yes. Right now. To feel like we're having these moments where we're levitating. Can I ask you a question? When was the last time you had the feeling of awe?

19:16When you were goosebumps and in awe? when was the last time you had that for you? I have it like quite regularly. Do you? So Louisa came back from her lunch break and made a comment about the suffering that's going on in Palestine at the moment which is all over social media. It kind of got us into a conversation which we've never had before because we're always pretty light and frothy. Like we talk about like very girly stuff where she's slightly more Gen Z than I am but we talk about like fashion and food and silly stuff and boys and relationships and just like the easy stuff and it broke a bit of a wall and I don't know a huge amount about this topic so I'm not going to go into it in loads of detail on this podcast but I remembered a conversation I'd had with Harriet Churchwood who I love, who has helped with some of the interior stuff in the house would highly recommend.

20:04She's actually working on building up her business now that her daughter's gone to school. But I remember having a really, really inspiring conversation with Harriet when she was educating me about what was going on in Gaza and I said to her I was like you know what if you want to learn a bit more about this you should reach out to Harriet because she does a lot with regards to um sending aid over there like on a really personal like grassroots level as in she works like very closely with people that are literally going over there and doing good and we're obviously so far removed from everything that's going on over there so it's very hard to actually make an impact um but I felt really like I got shivers then in that moment because I felt like, oh, that felt like one of those moments where things just aligned.

20:51And I felt like I was about to encourage someone to educate themselves on something, which I think is of interest to them. I don't know. It was just actually more, there's something, there's quite a beautiful thing in connecting people with other people over common interests. And that was a moment that I had, which did that. And that was really nice. that's super random I just I didn't think I would mention that today um but I but I actually get shivers like quite regularly at the moment and I feel like I can tell that you're in a really good spot at the moment and you were in those like in that shivery moment and you had a moment yesterday when you came home from work well you were you'd worked in the office and I think that that's putting you in such an amazing headspace as it is but you also had a really really fantastic conversation with somebody yeah yeah yeah much like your conversation who is maybe like a mentor kind of person to you I had a very I had the same I had the same experience and I remember it was it was scheduled to be an hour I think we were more like two hours and it was just a reflection of how organic the conversation was and it came about in a very organic way as well and it was it was genuine and nothing was forced about it i wasn't trying to be too nosy on my questions it was all um you know very relevant and very um uh you know a true reflection of where i'm at with my own journey with this children's book so i was speaking to a really uh established and successful author and called rachel bright called rachel we've mentioned a few times in the podcast before and in summary after that call i just like you i just felt so reassured and calm in in the deepest parts of me and i was like this is this really is where i want to be going with my life i want to be like rachel bright standing in her sort of studio office space and it was just it was just incredible because i was you know i was looking at this woman and there's a bookshelf behind her and in shot on this zoom call and you know these small spines of books just stacked up on the bookshelf and um she's surrounded by you know easels and flip charts with papers and and she was surrounded by her own work that just looked as we all know just amazing finished articles but it was just i was viewing it as like that's your i'm looking at your legacy there and her children are running in and out of the room and it was all uh just very wholesome and very fulfilling and massively inspiring and um i want to i needed that i needed that call not even for the insight into sort of the process and the uh you know uh things to look out for with regards agents publishers marketing all that sort of stuff i needed that connection with someone like her to signal to me that this is where i want to be going and it was bloody powerful why i think that we're both feeling like this about these various projects is because and i don't think this is even an intentional thing but i think it's because these are projects that are set out of inspiration versus desperation and I don't know what we've done to cause this shift but I feel so much less panicked in my work at the moment I feel confident that I'm on the right path I feel confident that you're on the right path I feel like we're not being grabby I don't feel greedy I don't feel like I need that money and I need that brand deal and I need everything I need it all I need to be cannibalizing the whole marketplace and we have to do the best on TikTok and here and the podcast has always got to be charting.

24:46It's quite, I feel like really comfortable with where we're at. And I think part of that is having these conversations with people that have maybe before felt quite out of reach, reaching out to them, asking and getting somewhere with it and going, okay, cool. Even if we're not like immediately achieving things every single day, we are learning from people that are better than us and that there are always people that are willing to help like it's really provides you with so much comfort knowing that there are many many many people out there that want want to help you with fulfilling your dreams and I guess actually what was a quote that somebody told me the other day which is hilarious because it's actually a Kris Jenner quote and it's if you're getting, if the answer is no, you're asking the wrong person.

25:39And I love that because even though it's like, you know, really silly and really simple, it encourages you to just keep asking, keep asking for help. Rachel gave me her version of that yesterday as well. What was hers? She was illustrating to me that even the most successful authors have been rejected so many times to the point where they could wallpaper their office with the amount of rejection letters they've had with like rejected storyboards and concepts and ideas. It's called the slush pile. Oh, is it? Cool. The slush pile is like when publishers are like, no, thank you. And it's in the slush pile.

26:15And she said one of many just velvet articulate just things that she came out with. She said, no matter how many no's you get along the way, it just leads you to the right yes. And it's a version of what you just said. Isn't that funny though, that we've both heard that exact same expression in the last week? That's synchronicity. That has to be synchronicity. What else did this oracle teach you? What questions? Did you have a list of questions before jumping on the call? Because this is such a big career moment for you to have the opportunity to do that. Were you feeling nervous beforehand? No, I wasn't.

26:55Because you weren't scared? Because it was inspired you weren't scared of like the rejection or having to please no i think she she i think she made it very um accessible and just removed the seriousness from it so she reached she confirmed the meeting on email she then attached her number i replied gave her my number she whatsapped and you know just confirmed on text and be like if you're running late just call me it's all fine i'm working from home etc it was all very soft the entrance into it was very soft and warm and welcoming so i didn't feel nervous and she like i say she just gives this aura of someone who is very at peace what you would hope is behind these books that we love to share with leo you would you would hope to find like a very lovely like morally sound just lovely person she is that and more and i could tell straight from the get-go i said to her very early on i was like this is really more of a legacy thing for me i want to do something that i can feel really proud of and you know have my have something i've created from my lived experience of parenthood and fatherhood and have it in the shelf at home and if it sells it sells and you know this is not really a motivated business uh venture as much as maybe some other authors but i said it and she just drew massively closer to the water conversation and she was like abundance follows soul follow your soul and i told her a couple of the sort of chapters and the timeline and what I wanted to get out in these books.

28:21And she was just blown away by the soul and the love and the passion behind it. So it was a really helpful call. But as an extension of like feelings and where you've been at this week, what have you got coming up in the next few weeks or the rest of the month? Have you got some things happening that you look forward to? Because I know that that's important for people. Good question. I mean, I have some, some like biggish things coming up. So I've got a big photo shoot for my jewelry collection that comes out at the end of this year again, which is funny because I remember talking about that in a really early episode of the podcast.

29:00Didn't I have a poster? Yeah, you had a poster here. So it would have almost been a year, which is kind of cool. Feeling a little bit nervous about that only because. You set the standards so high. Yeah, it went really well last year and I'm just feeling a little like more aged and slightly less in shape. But I don't think it matters because I'm working with a really amazing group of women without being too sexist. They're really like accommodating and laid back and they celebrate women in all their glory and all their uniqueness. So actually very excited about that. And also the girls who I work with, who I love, have not experienced that setting before.

29:47So I'm really excited to take them along with me. And then like... Do you think excitement and nervous is the same emotion? I think it's a similar energy frequency. So when I'm excited, I get really buzzed and I start to shake. And when I'm nervous, I get buzzed and start to shake. It's the same as like if I have a cup of coffee, I feel the same as I do when I get excited or nervous. It kind of gets that, you get fire in your belly. it brings about the same physiological response but i think our brain tricks us because if we're feeling a little bit like unsure all of a sudden becomes nervousness nervous energy but if you're like feeling pretty good and like all right let's go it's like excitement but it's the same physiological stuff that's happening yeah i think you're probably right it's an interesting around that and i felt really excited about booking this bloody paddle court for this friday okay i'm i couldn't stop talking about it all weekend and i and it's funny because you you and sam so i'm just really this is this really lame i'm so excited to play paddle with you and my brother and i took him for the first time he played before but not for ages and we played with a couple of our friends and this is really uncle but i really wanted him to have a good experience It's not unclean.

31:01It meant so much to me that he played well and was partnered with the right people. And I didn't want to stick around on his team for too long because I felt like he maybe couldn't play as well if I was with him. And that I was going to annoy him or I was going to intimidate him. So I switched it out. Because I really, I just know how much of a fantastic sport it is. And that's why it's blowing up here. And I didn't realize actually, I think it's, we played with some Spanish people last week and there, it's really, really big in Spain, but it's, it's just the answer. It was born in Spain. Yeah.

31:38And it's the, it's the answer. If you're looking, if you're time strapped and you want to be social, but also you want to get your exercise in. it's it really is it's like it's a fantastic way to spend 60 or 90 minutes and I'm always looking to like recruit people into into the group and I adore Sam and I know that he's like out on a limb a little bit at the moment like it's kind of just setting in that he's single and I think it's a really nice way to meet new people and I really want him to feel confident in doing it and before he's always been quite boundaried with his, um, with his time because work always has to come first.

32:19And if something's going to interfere with that, like that throws him slightly off kilter. And I said to him, I was like, please, can you just commit like a promise you'll love it. And I promise this is going to lead to good things for you and for other people. And it does like it is entertaining. There are interesting people on other courts and, and to be able to convince him to book a court then for a friday as well feels like we did a good job and so the cool thing as well one of the reasons i'm really excited about friday is because it's outdoors and we live like in southwest london it's very urban and we don't get outside enough the idea of meeting up and spending a few hours together to play sport outside it just makes me so happy can i just say like why were you and sam so chilled about that when i was when i'm like so excited about it so me and sam went for breakfast together the week before and i think i think the reason i didn't show the same level of excitement is because when i had that conversation with sam i discovered that he is in such a new place in his life and it's almost like he's more accepting he's now uh more aware of the sort of um lifestyle that we've built for for ourselves here and he's looking at it in a very different lens and he's like i kind of want a bit of what you guys have got going on and when i say acceptance i mean like he's accepting the invitations to go and play sport together before he was either too busy or we're not good enough or there's not enough gain for him in that situation and something has really changed in sam's world because he's now so family orientated so invested with spending time with his nephew and the conversations that we me and him have going back to that breakfast no i can't even describe on here and i probably won't because it's very personal but no one would expect to see that level of conversation and the depth and meaning that it carries so what i'm trying to say is like when you see him like in the kitchen be like yeah let's go and play paddle you're like in that moment you're like shit like what is happening right but i've had a very intense kind of like conversation where i'm like piecing it together and i've arrived at this like new version of sam almost yeah and his willingness to to do something different you know and he would have clocked it and he would also feel great about that to see that you're excited that he's you know spending more time with us yeah which is obviously rolled into hopefully a family holiday at the end of this month which again sam typically would have been like don't know about that yeah yeah he's like super into the idea and it excites me the plan is hopefully we're gonna do a cheeky mobs trip yeah but you sort of made it sound like we'll be down in banoose mate but we'll be in some like quiet tranquil golf course in the hills Hang on a minute.

35:19Wasn't Banus? I love that you just called it that as if you've said that line before. Everyone knows Banus, mate. Is that what it gets called? I thought it was just like, what a Banus? For you, yeah. What a Banus. Isn't that where you first ever texted me when I never got that text? Weren't we both in Spain? In Marbella? You were there with friends and you saw that I was there. Yes. And this is when I was still in a relationship. Yeah, I was partying in Banus and you were at Nicky Beach. That's so funny. Banus. But there was no exchange of messages and it was ignored, I think. I think that would be gorge.

35:54I'd love to go away with Sam. I always say to him, you know, what we were lucky enough to get out of Greece on our family holiday is the silly fun, is the snorkeling, getting, you know, big goggle mucks, suctioning your, like attached to your face. It's your salty, messy, little sunburnt face with a big ice cream and a fizzy drink. And I don't know, like a bit of a dance on the beach. It's the innocent fun. And I think that Sam hasn't experienced any of that in a really long time. And he's obsessed with the ocean and animals and the fish and the sea, like snorkeling and all that stuff. So I think it will connect him with his true self because I do think in this industry, when you're constantly front facing and you're entertaining all the time, sometimes you slightly lose your sense of self.

36:44And I'll be really honest, you know, I have moments on a Wednesday now, which is when we record the podcast, where I get anxious and I get a bit confused and I overthink and I think, God, who do I need to be today? do I need to impress people like what am I going to talk about and and I was talking to you a bit about this this morning and I get in my head and then actually I find some weird like trauma kind of reaction happens and my brain actually shuts down and it turns itself off and I just can't think straight and then I actually can't perform at all and I'm really happy because right now I kind of feel like i've broken the curse like i feel like i've kind of actually spoken to you about that this morning and i feel like this has been a really lovely episode and it's felt different and i think that sam's in a place which is similar where sometimes you you get so carried away on this train right you're like moving 100 miles an hour and you're i think you're always trying to please yeah you're going to try to explain what i'm trying to get out here well no you've explained it but i'm just no i'm just going to tell you what i I'm receiving this as you're basically saying it feels great just to be you.

37:58Yeah. And to that point, you know, because we all fall into this trap, whether it's, I don't know, going on a date for the first time or meeting people that you haven't met before, job interviews, whatever it is, we all fall into this trap of like, am I good enough? If not, who do I need to be? Like, which personality trait do I need to like elevate and ramp up? like is there a little bit of acting fake it till i make it type stuff going on but actually there comes a point in everyone's life i believe this is just my belief and um because these things are often like bumper stickers and just strap lines that people chuck around but being you and you know just be you when you're living in the stage of life that we i think we all are me you and sam and the reason i've roped him in is because i think we we all are generally in this phase of life where we're like it's actually okay to be just me and also we we can all really be ourselves around each other and that's why we've got this really nice comfortable little triangle now i think that's really powerful and actually you you and sam in particular because you've got really big profiles the more you show that that it's really actually lovely just to be you thank you yeah that will help a lot of people you know what i mean yeah yeah yeah absolutely and i don't want to speak about sam too much because i know that you know he he should have the right to be in the conversation if we're going to talk about him but i think the shift that i've seen with him is that he is he's that he's starting to be more him yeah and he's relaxing that's my version of it uh that's my interpretation so yeah guys stay posted for some post mobs Spunter.

39:42Where I am at now, I have never been more excited to spend time with your family, Sam in particular. Isn't that gorgeous?

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40:32I actually have a listener submission that is weirdly about siblings. so I feel like that could be quite relevant for this week. You down for it? Yeah. She said, I want a closer relationship with my siblings. Hi, Louise and Ryan. I'm keen to have a close relationship with my siblings as growing up we were taught about the importance of family and having good values. However, I struggle with this as it feels as though my brother and sister constantly take out their anger on me. My main issue is that I naturally get on better with our mom than they do and they get upset about this despite not making an effort themselves.

41:01What advice do you have and what should I do? reminds me of that song from baz lerman everyone everyone wears sunscreen oh yeah you've mentioned this before because it carries such messages man it's like a disney film wait remind me what it is well the siblings thing is like be kind to your siblings because they're your greatest link to your past okay so there's so much history that there's there's too much history between you and your siblings to not have a relationship and keep that alive and keep adding to it that's a really nice way to look at it like strip away all of the dynamics of new families and yeah holding on to grudges and just see it as like part of this life and it's all part of like the game of life just ups and downs but you need to keep them close this this again like this is a this is an example of how I view things so differently now.

42:00Yeah. It's almost like the top, when you look at your brother or sister, and let's use mine as the example, you look in on the situation, wife, kids, pets, house, jobs. You can look at that and be like, oh, that's their life, that's their family. But what I'm almost like doing is looking like at the layer beneath that and everything else fades out and I just see one person. It's my sibling, my brother. And it's like, they are literally bloodline related to me. Yeah. There is no one closer in this world. It's a nice way to look at it. Like remove all of the external factors and just see this little innocent person that shares 100 % of the genes.

42:51Is it 100 %? No, I won't be like, they're not like a twin but whatever it is but i like that's a hell of a lot of genes i like that it's remove all the external noise dynamics of i don't know people joining the family or past experiences remove everything that surrounds it and just look at this person who is blood directed relation blood blood relation to you yeah and would have kissed you cuddled you held your hand if they're older or even younger shared like so many first moments in your lifetime time and they will always like typically in most situations maybe not all but they'll be the put they'll be the people there to catch you when you fall the hardest and fastest they'll be there to celebrate when you get your you know your break moment in life siblings are you're very lucky you have a very very lovely relationship with your sibling maybe you've got some stuff to stay on this one there are scenarios where people absolutely hate their siblings and people have had huge family feuds and they fall out and it becomes irreparable and I'm trying to think like how that happens and I think that the reason that that must happen is because something so significant has gone on in somebody's life an individual's life that has taken them so off their path and sent them into such a destructive headspace where it affects everything in their life and the siblings you know the falling out is kind of a byproduct of that it's like you know if someone goes and does something really bad say worst case scenario like a sibling literally like has an affair with their sibling's partner or wife or husband or whatever it is like things do sometimes get really messy something has caused that person to go so dark and so deeply off piece that they've done something really bad and if you can find a way to you know hone in on like that moment in time where it went wrong correct that strip it back and then go back to like the core of who you were as people when you were children then maybe there is an answer for every every sibling breakdown just saying that has reminded me of you've said that me and sam have always had the most wonderful relationship and i'm very lucky when we went through all of our heavy heavy trauma we've not really spoken about this lots and the podcast and there are some things that are just better left unspoken about until maybe we're 10 years down the line and ready to process them fully but our we were both in such a bad headspace that our entire lives fell apart including our family dynamic and you didn't speak to sam i didn't really speak to sam there were moments where i was having conversations with my therapist saying that i genuinely thought that we would never be a complete family again and that I would never have a good relationship with him again so you know it's not always been easy but it is just I think it's it is very circumstantial I can't imagine what it's like for one person to one one child to have a closer relationship with the parent to be honest and whether that makes other people feel jealous my parents i'm very fortunate have always been incredibly fair with both me and sam like we joke about the fact that my dad prefers me and my mom prefers sam and there's like a teeny teeny tiny little freudian element to that being the truth but it's like and it's not the truth like they would obviously refute that but these things ebb and flow a little bit i think at the end of the day your parents aren't actually going to be around forever you would like to think that you as siblings would outlive your parents that's the way that things are supposed to run the course of life is supposed to run it's not always the way and it's devastating and that doesn't happen but um they are if you can find a way to so i guess this is what she's actually asking us right it's like what is the advice and what should this person do as we move through life and we get older and we have our own families and new responsibilities it does dilute relationships you have with family members siblings often i've experienced it myself but at some point in that journey um i went deeper with my perspective on this and i i made a commitment to myself and my siblings that i wasn't going to lose sight of it and i think my my piece of advice is one try and have a conversation where you actively both try and remove all of that external stuff and get back to you're my brother or you're my sister there is no one else closer to me in this universe let's get let's let's just like sit with that realization for a second as adults second thing is like dig out old baby photos my brother sat in work the other day he's sending me these ai video he's turned a photo of him holding me when i'm brand new and he's turned into a video where he's kissing me oh my goodness he's six years older that's a bit scary he's done it with he's done it with my other brother here that's my two older brothers there who have been through some stuff wow you see that you see an old photo like that and forget the ai stuff but like if you look at photos properly and you're like holy shit we've shared and we've shared a lifetime together there has to come a point in all of our lives where we all that external guff and shit that happens in life ignore it push it to the side if all that fails just set up a whatsapp group and hound everybody in your family your family have a great whatsapp group oh i wouldn't say it's great but we have one it's kind of annoying sometimes it's normally just your dad talking to himself no i love it i think it's it's actually really i do genuinely think it brings people together it's nice to especially if you're living in all different parts of the country to stay stay in touch i could talk on this for hours but i won't because i'm i'm gonna go too deep on it but that's my advice well guys i really hope you loved um listening to the episode this week i feel like we've really unlocked some new ways of having conversations there i i genuinely think that if you just lead a conversation from a place of like how are you feeling right now good or bad yeah it's just a great place to start and everything every you know everything is led with feelings that we all have feelings every moment of every day well thank you for having a good conversation leading a good conversation today risy if you guys are um enjoying these kinds of conversations then remember we bring them out every wednesday and if you're looking for something a little bit lighter shorter sillier then you can tap into our auras on a monday where You can ask us absolutely anything.

49:42And we've got some belters for you coming up. Ciao. Thanks very much. Bye.

49:56While every other channel is fighting for your customer's attention, podcasts are where they've already given it. No one accidentally listens to a podcast for 45 minutes. They choose to be here. They trust the voice in their ears. and when that voice talks about your brand, it doesn't sound like advertising. It sounds like a recommendation from a friend. Acast gives you that trust at scale. Digital precision, post-read authenticity and performance data that proves it worked. Don't fight for attention. Buy it with Acast. Learn more by visiting acast.com slash advertise.