Our First Time Sharing Our Surrogacy Journey Publicly...

0:28Hey guys, it's Louise. Do you remember that squeaky chair that I'd be balancing on at home? In Leo's playroom. It sounded like Ed Ferris in it. Now I'm in a plush armchair. Oh, this is great. It feels very grown up, doesn't it? So we've moved. We have joined forces with Staying Relevant Productions, my brother and Pete's production company. Big up. And I cannot believe that Sam is now our boss. No, no, no, no. No, no. We're not going with that. We're not going with that. I'll be going with that actually technically Pete's our boss because I think that Sam thought it wouldn't be right for him to be in charge of our pod yeah fair it feels really really good to be to be united with him because he's built something so impressive and and this just has such a good feel we've got a beautiful space here they're literally just through that wall I know our set's nicer than theirs so much nicer which is cool what have we got there's a snake over there Ryan that's your least favourite animal I probably should have let them know that that's my phobia so Ryan's petrified of snakes I've balanced it out with a nice bit of Disney behind me though I hope you've noticed that the lady and the tramp that was the one thing that I've had like a a stamp on everything else was all the Staying Relevant crew this is this is their good work is that me and you then the lady and the tramp yeah you actually do look like that dog with the new haircut oh we're not going to talk about the haircut on this episode we've got we've got some hair news but we'll save it for next week do you know what we should do louise we should do a little a little quick pause for new listeners yes so give us a little intro who are you who am i speaking to you right now well i'm louise and i'm ryan and we're a couple we've been together for 10 years we actually met we didn't meet on min chelsea so i used to be on a reality tv show I dragged you onto it.

2:26You were actually my PT. It was a slightly cliche introduction. And then we fell in love and we've been through some real trials and tribulations. And I think for us, you know, there are a lot of podcasts out there. It felt like we had a story that we really wanted to share following the birth of our beautiful four-year-old boy, Leo. I nearly died a couple of times. Ryan had to pick up the pieces. You had to solo parent for a bit. And we kind of reconnected as a couple in a totally different way after going through a lot of trauma. And we really learned that we had to communicate. I think we'd probably coasted for the first six years of our relationship.

3:09Things felt pretty easy. We used to travel a lot. We had the dream life, dream jobs. We used to just create content for a living. It was pretty juicy and get paid to do it, got paid to do it. And then our worlds really shifted. And when everything kind of got shattered into a million pieces, we, it gave us the opportunity to really look at like how we wanted to rebuild our lives and to focus on what was important. And so I think a big part of this podcast is kind of breaking down taboo subjects um and and yeah i mean really like opening ourselves up it's also it's also designed to offer two perspectives so i think that was the important part of this show is that we wanted to offer something where you would create and hold space for me in a conversation and i'd do the same for you i was not historically very good at doing that no still working on that one no but i think that's a common dynamic that people have totally Like in a relationship, there tends to be one.

4:11I was going to say that's more dominant. That's so savage. Yeah, again, that's true. One that talks too much and one that listens too much. You can't listen too much. That's true. I'm very passionate about this podcast because we talk a lot about our own current real-time life as a family, as individuals, as parents to Leo. But also, I've become more and more engaged with this podcast because we have such a big opportunity. you as a woman and you know your own lived experiences but me as a man I'm now trying my best I think to demonstrate the impact of if you have open communication with people in your world or your circle it can really have a ripple effect through everything in your world.

4:58It's not a particularly easy thing to do for men for various reasons but I think it's not that men are unable to communicate they're really not they're actually really good communicators you just got to tee up the right environment and give them space and as a result we have a much better relationship now than we did six seven years ago despite all the fallout of you nearly dying three times in my arms so here we are yeah that was really deep quite quickly there will be some upbeat moments we have lots going on this year 100 we want to show we want to talk about the real the real truths of what life looks like for us but no one has just i mean they have the other side of that wall is yeah pure comedy yeah uh but this is a different kind of speed but i think that that's really important because this is all about being like truly authentic to who we are yeah and not trying to jump on something that someone else is doing and so i think that's something that we wanted to mention just because we've joined forces with the staying relevant team it doesn't mean that we're going to be emulating their vibe like we have our own thing going on and everyone's got their own individual value to add to a conversation so Sam and Pete together very funny and attractive in different ways I'm sure I'm weird we're different sorry attractive well everyone seems to fancy Pete don't they wherever I go I'm like fuck it wait I think we should talk about the fact are you gonna lose your shit if I say this no Ryan after so we did a promo shoot okay Louie's definitely and I don't know whether you stop whispering that I fancy Pete into the microphone Who is his mum also fancies Pete?

6:39Well I didn't realise you bumped into my mum on the day of the promo. I've never seen your mum fold like that in life. What happened? You're acting like she was in a fucking dressing gown on the street. Well she was makeup free she was going somewhere in her fatigues and she was like oh my god Pete I can't believe I'm seeing you. She just went bright red as if it was the I don't know. It was just I've never seen your mum like that she's usually very composed and really graceful and this time she was just putty in his hands. I was like, really speechless. It's just normal for you? And what, is it normal for him?

7:11I get the impression that women like Pete, which is fine. I think he's wonderful. I think it's quite, he's quite Marmite though. Like, he's either your type or not, right? I'll tell you who does like Pete. Leo. Leo loves Pete. But I just want to get one thing straight, first of all. So after the promo day, Ryan actually said to me in the kitchen, he was like, you need to be a bit more chilled around Pete because you are trying a bit hard. Do you fancy him? And I was like, no, I'm just welcoming him into the family. No, he's doing that to us. No, but we shot a lot of it at our house. And I wanted him to feel comfortable.

7:47Because I know that he can do his thing and be him at Sam's in his own way. But it's different. Like, we're very different people, aren't we? Like, I'm very different to Sam. When he walked in here this morning, you were like, I'm quite glad that Pete's not here because he makes me nervous. Oh! That's usually like a telling sign. Can I just explain something? I have been on so much hormonal therapy same that I'm feeling anxious anyway and it's the first fucking episode so those are the reasons that I do not need a bigger audience I need to I need to share a story with everyone but also oh my god this is now going to become a running thing no but that's fine just lean into it oh my god I don't like I need to get this out I need to get this off my chest what before we'd even signed with staying relevant we went for dinner with Pete Pippa and G was there as well yeah I was running late because I had a car emergency I had a car emergency I've Louise has never screamed down the phone to me but on this day she screamed at me down the phone she was so annoyed at the fact that I was potentially going to be late anyway somewhere in that screaming down the phone you were like we're going to see Pete it's like meeting the king we're going to be there on time I didn't know fucking say it yes you did shut up you're now nine for the pod You put so much pressure on this meeting.

9:06I was like, oh my God, Louise. Wait, just for clarity, I did not say king. I did not say king. You said prime minister. Prime minister. She said prime minister. We had a fight over it. You said, it's not like we're off to go and meet the king and the prime minister. You mother trucker. You can't turn this back on me. Okay, because I hate being late and you're always late, but we can... I'm never late. Again, this is like the difference between you and I and men and women and just this is a couple's dilemma. you could have just accepted the story because that is a true story but no you were like no yeah it was really annoying because we were trying to build a first impression and it was the first time we all got to sit down to have a dinner and you were like yeah sorry I'm going to be late and I was like that's just leaving a really poor first impression man okay yeah why were you late anyway I wasn't late you can ask these two I wasn't late in the end fine poor guy who's fixing the car I was like easy fella I was like you gotta hurry up mate you're gonna meet the premise fine but I feel like we've I feel like we've we've come quite far anyway since that first meeting and it was it was it was nice I do slightly slightly worry about the impact of our four year old boy spending so much time with Uncle Sam and now Uncle Pete last night when I was in bed with him obviously he's just been back to nursery for two days he turned to me and said hey mummy can I ask you a question he likes to whisper in my ear and it's so cute I love it it's like a little ASMR in my ear and he actually shouts he doesn't even whisper he thinks he's been quiet he was like are Uncle Sam and Uncle Pete naughty?

10:45yes and are you and daddy nice? and I was like oh my gosh where has he formed that opinion from? I don't know but that's incredibly accurate naughty and nice yeah I didn't really know what to say I think I said I think I said yes but I then worried that maybe he'd gone to nursery his new favourite thing to say which is so inappropriate for anyone that's listening please don't judge because I promise we're really good parents but I have no idea where this is going you know what his new favourite thing to say is he says a hundred times a day now blood of hell oh well yeah it's so bad and you and Sam think it's funny it is funny it's not funny so what would have happened is he would have gone back to nursery bearing in mind he went back a week late because he's been seriously unwell he had strep A and his tonsils blew up and we spent 24 hours in St.

11:34Mary's Hospital. The nursery have been very kind, very accommodating. They've called to make sure that he's okay because obviously he's been there at the same nursery for, what, three years? They've got a pretty tight relationship. He would have gone back and started... He sat down and was like, and then he would have gone back and they would have gone like, how has your holidays been? Did Father Christmas come? And he would have gone, blood of hell. Yeah, you did. And then they would have said, okay, so who have you spent some time with? I'm guessing maybe some family members. My dad creased on the phone hard when I called him because Leo said it in the back, in the car.

12:11It was quite sweet though because I did notice that Pete and him had this pretty strong bond on that shoot day. And I don't know whether it's a personality thing. Or was it just like a new, like exciting, who's this new person? Pete doesn't necessarily like that many adults, but he's very good with kids and animals. That is a personality type. I'm sorry to say it. It's like, and I kind of relate to it because when I was, maybe it's like a confidence thing. It's easier to talk to children and animals. Obviously animals is one side of my relationship. You got me now. Go, go, go. But when I was younger, actually, even when we first started dating, I remember spending some time with your family.

12:54and I would often hang out in your niece's playroom because it's kind of like a nice, it's a safe space, isn't it? To like chat to little people. No, I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying. Yeah. I did the same at Binky's birthday. I just had all the babies on me and everyone was like, oh, he's great with babies. Yeah, you do it as well. And like even at a wedding, at any party, like kids are actually just a bit more fun, aren't they? Well, yes. Yeah. I think it's great. I think Leo's going to have a lot of fun. He's going to be... The Vesper that we've now taken home from their studio is a pain in the arse.

13:29Did you see the way he crashed it into the teepee? It looked like a full-on crash site. I was like, that is epic. He puts his helmet on. The whole front of it is just like wedged in this tent in the kitchen with his helmet on the floor and bags spilled over there. I was like, what happened? I know. I think it's because he sees you riding on your bike regularly. He just wants to be you. You know what I want to do? He puts on like five layers. The other day I found myself like getting quite frustrated because now he dresses himself, which is really dull. And I really don't love it when he wears this like one long sleeve black t-shirt.

14:04He just looks so cute in like little baby colours, like creams and neutrals and all that stuff. Yeah. And also colourful stuff. Like I think it's nice for him to express himself through a lot of colour. He came down in this like long black sleeve t-shirt and I actually felt really guilty afterwards because I hate it when you say to him anything about his appearance that might quash his self-confidence. What did I say? Well, sometimes you'll be like, oh, you're having bad hair today, man. I mean, you can't say that. He's four. It's because I've got his back. I'm the one that does his hair. Should we talk about the haircut you gave him?

14:30I told him that I really didn't like the black T-shirt and then I looked and I realised that he was just copying us because we were both wearing black T-shirts. He's sweet, isn't he? So yeah, he loads on all these clothes, puts on his helmet, gets his vestment and he's off. It's so funny. I don't think you saw it, but you know his little wooden sword that your dad gave him? He wedges that. to bring by him swords, bows and arrows. Yeah, but listen. Like nerf guns. He's on his Vespa with his white helmet and rucksack on and then he gets his sword and he wedges it in the saddle like a little cowboy.

14:59I'm like, where have you got that? That's amazing. And he's like charging around the kitchen on this. He's a lot cooler than me. Oh, mate. When you were growing up, did you have... Do you have godparents? Yeah, I think mine's a guy called Selwyn. i don't know why that's funny why is that so funny that's just so disappointing it's like i think mine is a guy called selwyn so he's actually not disappointed he clearly doesn't write you letters or give you presents then or money doesn't do that but he is he's not disappointed he's actually a really really sweet guy he's an icon i think it's really important for leo to have lots of cool godparents around him that can all teach him lots of different lessons.

15:40Well, he's had his allocation. Oh, right. Where are you going with this? Well, I was thinking we could ask Pete just because he's so responsible and such a good example. He'd offer something different. Oh my God. Maybe like, we'll see how the relationship grows, blossoms over the next six months. And if things go well, we can maybe consider it. Okay. No, because he was like getting him to try on his leopard trainers. And then I thought, right, well if you're a godparent you could maybe buy him some clothes.

16:13And I reckon Pete would be quite generous. Leo doesn't need more generous people. You know they both, they actually have so much in common. Right, I'm going to lose this one, aren't I? They only eat ice creams, both of them. That's true. So I think that there was a video that went out showing the insides of Pete's fridge and freezer. I need to see that. And there's only ice cream in it. I am quite fascinated. He's got a bit of a penchant for dairy, I think. A penchant? Yeah, like a penchant. What is that? A penchant. You just made it up. Like a French word. Like a penchant. A penchant. Penchant.

16:47It means you like something. Like you've got a bit of a love for. Penchant, baby. Yeah, so I thought maybe we could consider the Godfather label. But then I think Sam might get a bit jealous. I noticed the shoot day because there was so much noise. there were so many people in our house in that kitchen that sam started getting a little bit jealous that he wasn't the center of attention did you notice that sam looked at me several times as if to say what the fuck's going on what did he yeah and then when like everyone because everyone was creating a lot of like behind the scenes content and people were honing in on leo and Uncle Pete Sam then started making it all about I'm being like guys no no no over here over here he's like I've got a really good idea I've got a really good idea let's get my reaction of Pete and Leo so he'd be like oh no Louise Ryan you stand next to me here Kira can you face us here and get us and then pan to Pete and Leo and then us again which is kind of funny I did catch that because they've got a relationship obviously Sam and Leo I actually spoke to him at 6.30 this morning.

18:01Who? Sam. I asked him if he would like to write a letter to Leo because he's had like a really good bonding few weeks and months, especially over Christmas. And I was like, mate, I've seen it. I think it's really wonderful. I just feel about writing a letter to him because I do it every week. He called me back at 6.30. He's like, mate, I'd absolutely love to do that. Sam, five, three, four, five years ago would not have any interest, care, desire to do anything like that. He called me back in like 60 seconds to say I'd love to do it. I was like, oh, mate, you are... But he actually called you back?

18:33Yes. Wait, is it you... Did you send him a voice note? No, I sent him a text. Not really thinking that he'd be awake at that time. My phone rings back in less than 60 seconds. He's changing. He's changing. He is changing. So I think it'd be good to talk a bit about why we decided to take a break from the pod. Do you want to offer your account of that? Yeah, because I was thinking a bit about it this morning, actually. um I actually think that my mental health started to take a bit of a hit towards the end of last year I I know that because I I there were like physical manifestations and like you guys that work here now will start I'm being quite vulnerable here because you guys will all get to know me very well us very well and we'll get to know our funny quirks because we all have them but I I found that I was like really twitchy and I was like blinking a lot and I couldn't think straight.

19:27I had a lot of brain fog. I think I was sharing so much publicly across like, you know, different platforms and I'd committed, I'd over committed myself work-wise and I just had really like little space less left for myself. And the weeks were just rolling by way too quickly. And sometimes I think the only way to slow down time is to actually do less. And I knew that there were things that meant a lot to me that weren't being done because I was just creating all these bloody videos all the time and those things were focusing on empowering women through making change in the maternity space uh having interesting conversations with other people new people so I kind of like had limited my diary so much um that I wasn't I wasn't looking like outwards like outside of myself I I wasn't engaging in like, you know, other people's material and doing podcast interviews with other people and reading and writing enough.

20:24And we also really wanted to focus on our health and so mental health, but also physical health and also our fertility and to get to understand that a little bit better. And I think we really didn't know what that was going to look like around like August, September time last year. we needed to take a bit of a pause so that we could have some important conversations to figure out whether it was something that we both really wanted to do to grow our family and and we've created like a lot of space to really get stuck into into that and I feel like I know so much now and it's been such a welcome a welcome break and now I feel really ready to to share it all with everybody what about you as an observer of you during that time that autumn winter from what september through to now effectively i did notice that you were your buckets were full you had so much going on with deadlines and pressures but you were really consumed by the health and the fertility and the way that you've kind of like applied your brain to it's amazing how you do this i don't i actually don't know how you do it but you end up going into these wormholes of research and you come out knowing as much as the professionals do.

21:46Every medical appointment we've had, whether it's gynae's or... Gastro or chemo. Gastro, chemo. Or a fertility expert just the other day. You wouldn't have noticed this, I don't suppose, but they all say, oh, you should be a gynecologist. Because they're all like, bloody hell, you're well read, aren't you? and I'm in the background like yeah you wouldn't believe mate but it's impressive it's not how I would go about it but it's impressive so I just wanted to acknowledge and like give you some kudos I suppose because you've done all the necessary research that you felt that you needed to do which I think has calmed you and it's put you into a more comfortable space with the whole journey, that's my observation yeah I think, can I make a comment?

22:37Yes. I think... I love this. It's your turn. I think the... Hold the conch. It is interesting how people have such different personalities, but for you, like, the less, you know, the less that can sort of, like, bother you and hurt you, for me, the more, you know, information is power. And so I like to understand everything so that I feel like... And maybe that comes from a place of, like, maybe not trusting people or being, like, let down in the past. I feel like I need to know all angles so that I can ask the right questions so I'm not being mugged off. I think that's fine. It's probably smart.

23:12It's completely opposite to me. But I don't know if I'm wrong or you're right. I think you have more faith in the universe and like following, going with the flow. I'm a believer in intuition and energy and going off feeling. But back to your question about acknowledging the sort of gap in between. I don't know if we can call it season one and season two, but I'm going to call it that because it feels quite nice for me. I really believe that this is more than just content to me. This is more of a legacy. And that's reflective in, I think, everything that we do individually as well. So with your books and your work with the maternity kind of legislation, my ambitions with children's books and letters to Leo and content, and it's all very considered and it means an awful lot to me.

23:59The podcast is central to that. So having a break allowed me to step away from it and really understand what I want this show to offer people. And also, I know Leo's only four, so I'm not assuming anything now, but in years to come, he will be aware of things like your books and my books, my content, your content, the podcast that his mum and dad do. And at some point, it's going to become a contributing factor to his being. So I'm aware of the responsibility, or the added responsibility we now have with doing a show like this. Because it's no longer just a sort of side project. We're doing something with great meaning and value to us, but hopefully it will land and resonate with lots of other families and people.

24:50We had an amazing experience, but I think we got to a place where we'd sort of outgrown the circumstances which we kicked off with. I think that's fair to say and so we wanted to yeah like realign I want to make sure that I'm not rushing these conversations you know what I mean I feel like the space in between then and now was good for me to process and digest like what we're getting into next that can't be rushed for me otherwise I would have you know I would have led with emotions I might have said something that I didn't mean at the time and ultimately that probably would have caused some fragments in our relationship yeah yeah yeah and do you think mainly are you talking about the fertility stuff 100 % because we have we've moved slightly different speeds i think in terms of like accepting that we are ready to grow our family is that fair to say yes like i think i've always known like i think i even when i was really not in a good spot when he was kind of like a year and a half old I'd have moments where in my head I would visualize that we had we were able to find a way to have more kids and you know especially when I'd be around other pregnant people and friends I would be sort of having their seconds and thirds and I'd see them with all their siblings I sort of felt hopeful that like later down the road that there would come a time where we would be able to to join them on that and i guess i never really spoke to you about that at the time sometimes i find it quite like hard to talk to you about this thing the fertility thing yeah because of the context to it i'm going to take this as an opportunity to remind you because i haven't been that uh helpful recently because it's such a this is such a heavy thing for me to even now but i've said it to you a number of times i've never said it publicly on a show like this so my motivation to to enter this journey with fertility and surrogacy is because you were effectively robbed of becoming a oh sorry you were take you didn't have the opportunity to be a mum to a newborn because you were so unwell

27:17regardless of what i'm about to say next i think that is really really sad and it's unfair and it's not actually be at all for any woman so that alone is enough of a reason for me to uh i don't want to say go along with because that makes it sound that i haven't considered it but that's enough pull for me to say yes to the idea of ivf and surrogacy the caveat to that and the but to that is it's still a fucking really bizarre thing for me and I'm still struggling to accept it. But that does not detract from the reason for it. Does that make sense? Yeah. And you know, nothing makes me happier than hearing you say that.

28:04And in moments sometimes where it is hard to talk about it, I cling on to the fact that you said that because then I know like, okay, well, even though Ryan might be acting and I don't want to throw you under the bus, but to say if I like have tried to talk about it before like in the car or something and we've I remember we were going out to the Cotswolds and you were like I don't want any of this like I can't do it like this isn't you're kind of you're um you're like you're forcing me into something that I don't want to do I know now that you're saying those things from a place of like of like fear and you're kind of just like pushing away the conversation there's something like underlying that's going on on your head that's different that I need to like figure out and like even um you know a couple of days ago when we were um heading to the clinic for my egg retrieval you were I sort of like I shouldn't have but I like was sort of filming a bit of stuff in the in the bedroom and then I kind of like popped the camera into the bathroom I was like hey Ryan how are you feeling and you were really not like happy about it and that was like the wrong time and you're like look I don't know how I found myself in this position again like I don't want to do this like what like you've put me in a place that I don't want to be like this isn't me I then stepped away and now I feel like I know how to handle that a bit better because I'm like what you're actually carrying is like the fear oh my god I don't want to get upset the fear that like maybe we can't make this work because we've got a long journey ahead and also that you're 50 percent of of this and that there's like a contribution from both sides that is going to require like an awful lot of work in order for us to be able to have another baby but I feel like I feel like we have turned a corner with it like I feel like we are now really aligned and there's so much that we can say on this topic and I think you know I'm really feeling ready to to share sort of the the highs and the lows that surround infertility and also for us surrogacy and I don't think we've really like said that out loud publicly but that is going to be the only way that we will be able to have another baby and as you said it's something that I think is like a man you really really struggle to to understand

30:58it's not that I don't understand it I just and this might be tricky to articulate so give me a second

31:11there is a little bit of me that feels a bit upset by it because you're voluntarily putting yourself back into these environments that really fucking burned me and twisted me up. So when you put on a gown and have a blood test, that's enough to send me off into a bad space. And then seeing you lying in a bed after a procedure where they're doing egg retrieval, which is nothing in comparison to what you've had, still hurts me.

31:46and I just, I don't know, because you haven't been on the receiving end of this, you haven't seen me in a gown with cannulas and tubes and blood, and you don't have that same view of it. But seeing Leah in hospital might have just changed something for you because you were on the other side of that fence then. It's a very different thing, isn't it? Being in it yourself and then witnessing someone you love go through something like that. you're saying it but this i hope i actually hope it doesn't i hope you don't see me and leo in a real spot of bother because it's the worst thing in the world yeah well it was scary enough just witnessing kind of what leo went through like you know a few weeks ago um which bloody came out of nowhere i was petrified when i woke up in the morning um Leo and I have been co-sleeping for a while no just say hi it's about six months I've been in that spare room for a while Ryan has had to sleep in the spare room you know I hate this so much it's funny as well the spare room is Sam's old bedroom just to let you know I know really moving it on to a lighter tone here before we kind of switch gears I just wanted to actually say thank you so much for openly explaining why it's really hard for you to like fully get on board with this whole like medical procedure stuff because i actually didn't know that you felt that strongly about it and i didn't know that it was so upsetting for you to see me in a hospital gown so i don't know when we when i say things like that to you and i have in the past you look at me like how could you not know that i do feel that way you think that like really regularly but it's because if you don't say something out loud I'm not a mind reader and that's why this show exists in my mind because men sit with silences like this and they struggle to let people know yeah back to the fact that you sleep in the spare room I used to judge other couples like one of my really good friends hasn't slept in the same bed as her partner for like seven years because he snores and I used to think that that was really like shit because how can you have a proper relationship with someone if you're not sharing a bed with them?

34:17But now that is us. One of those fucking shits. And also I used to think, because Ron's got two brothers, his middle brother Adam and Megan, we're really tight with all of Ron's, all of our family, so we're super lucky. I remember for ages, William, Leo, one of his older cousins, used to sleep with his mum in the bed. and we used to be like, oh, that's really bad, isn't it? Like, oh, Adam has to sleep in a separate room. Like, that's not how it should be. Then you follow suit. It's always the way. Yep. So you should never, ever judge. Like, people are just one or two steps ahead of you. Like, you'll find yourselves there.

34:56But yeah, we were, Leah was not very well for a couple of days. Anyway, woke up in the morning, well, sort of in the very early morning, and he said, mommy, turn on the light. And I've never really heard him speak like that. I didn't know that part of the story. Yeah, he said, turn on the light, I need a tissue. And I was like, oh my God, like, sorry, my baby is now talking. Turn on the light. Yeah, he's like, he literally was like, mommy, turn on the light, I need a tissue. And I was like, gosh, you've been lying to me that you don't understand anything that I'm saying and that you can't communicate, but you can when you need to.

35:35And I turned on the light and there was blood everywhere. And blood is, for obvious reasons, very triggering for us. And I thought that it was something to do with his stomach because he'd had really, really bad stomach pains and kept saying that he couldn't have any medication or drink any milk or fluids because it was giving him a really sore tummy. So I came downstairs and was probably really panicked and said, Ryan, like, this is actually serious. We need to go to hospital. There's blood. and I actually saw, because normally, if there's something that I'm worried about with Leo, like you are, it takes, we just have very different reaction speeds.

36:17You're probably more measured than I am. Like I'm a lot more impulsive. Like I react, I jump to react to things very quickly. Yeah. Yes, definitely. Also means I think I'd run away from the tiger quicker than you. I'd run at it. that's the difference run at it and be like you don't exist like the health problem isn't there and i'm like i'm running away and i've climbed up a tree like a mountain goat um but yeah i think you took this one very seriously very quickly we got him there in time we got him there in time and that was the main thing they did say that by the way they said that you got him here at the right time really yeah we're very very lucky we live very close to an amazing hospital i want to extend And a huge thank you to all of the people that do dedicate their time, especially those working night shifts, eight till eight, to support people in need when they're at their most vulnerable.

37:12And the paediatric department there, that Chelsea Westminster was amazing, and made like a very scary situation as okay as it could have been. We then had to go to St. Mary's, and then I had to spend the night in a very cozy room. Rustic room. With Leo. And that's arguably why I sound like I've got a slight croak in my throat right now. That's exactly why. Is it? Yeah. I think I picked up whatever Leo had. Most likely. So it's been a really crazy start to the year. And then obviously pairing that with trying to do this IVF cycle, it was everything, all the buses coming at once. Not the best timing.

37:48But I think one of the things actually that I just really quickly wanted to touch on was the fact that I feel very grateful that I had a partner in that situation. because for people that are solo parenting, having to make really important decisions really quickly and on their own, like kudos to them because that is tough. And I actually had a stoma leak that night, which is so rare. And I know I've like spoken about stoma leaks publicly a few times. So for anyone that's new here, Winnie, I've got a stoma bag, which is basically a bag attached to my tummy where my poo comes out. and she's called Winnie.

38:27I named her Winnie. You named her Winnie. Winnie the Pooh. Did you? I don't think you can take credit for that. Oh my God, yes. Did you? Yes, I've got a hard drive for season one. I'll show you when that happened. Okay, fine. And, but yeah, I had a, I don't actually have, for anyone that's facing the reality of a stover bag or having that surgery, it's not super common. But completely by chance, I had had a leak that night that I was too exhausted to tend to. So in the morning when I was then dealing with all of the blood everywhere, I also realized I had to have a shower and sort myself out because I couldn't go to the hospital with stuff leaking out of my stomach.

39:05So I had to just throw Leo into your arms and be like, be on your merry way, I need to sort myself out. And I do, I think, when you reach those rock-bottom moments, I don't know, I often have these revelations where I just feel so much gratitude for the circumstances that weigh in. so whether that is being with like a supportive partner I'm very lucky so thank you for being there were you ever sick when you were younger? I haven't been hospitalised before except when I was a baby and my, you know that story oh, what's that story? oh yeah, yeah, yeah this is like I want you to say the words on camera go on then well I was born in a RAF base in Cyprus and my mum was on the beach and she went into labour and so I think they put her in like an army vehicle and charged her into the hospital on the base.

39:59I think the delivery was fine, but I came out with bollocks the size of oranges. And I had to operate almost immediately to like drain fluid, I suppose. Okay. And I don't know if that's like some sort of hernia or, but I have basically, I have a C-section scar. Yeah. From having surgery as a baby. yours is prettier than mine yeah so I mean so you had massive balls I've got massive no I haven't got massive balls but I had I don't even know what massive balls would be you know when people you know when people talk about like big balls they're like oh that guy's got like massive balls no no no no that's not really a thing but it is some women like say that like oh he's got massive balls what yeah when they're dating people well that's fucking real bizarre Is it bizarre though?

40:48We'll put it this way. If I was in the changing room, I wouldn't be like, he's got massive balls. I'd be like, he's got a big schlong. Yeah, but surely, but they're different things. Oh, thanks for that. No, because the willy is different from the balls. I know, but I feel like the balls are just like irrelevant in the equation, aren't they? What, have you never noticed someone then with like a massive sack? Well, a massive sack is different to like big balls. No, it's not. It's the same thing. This is a weird conversation, man. Okay. I don't know. no maybe it's just something that happens when you get older your dad's got massive balls yeah Louise's dad wears these like fleecy navy joggers and they're quite tight because he's a bit of a rotund chap and when he sits like this on the stool at home because he doesn't sit on a have you noticed this about your dad he doesn't sit on a sofa he'll go on like the stool so he can sit upright and like squish his balls to the front and I'm like why you're just giving Leo like the most like crazy view of your package which obviously at 75 it's quite loose and free and Leo's like I can Leo says every time I can see your wee wee and I'm like you know he did he said that in the cafe once you can actually see your wee wee so maybe change the yeah he said it in front of my dad he went he whispered in my ear again one of Leo's whispers which is shouting he was like I can see grandpa's wee wee and then just kept staring at it my dad loves to wear just navy joggers for someone that's so successful he should really invest in a good pair of trousers too late he's never going to change but I've also that is another observation that's interesting.

42:16Like, he'd never sit soft. He's always got to sit on like a rock-solid chair. I think it's all part of his just like, he refuses to slow down. He doesn't want to be comfortable. In life, period. Because if you sit in a comfy chair, it's game over. Yeah. You could just fall asleep and never wake up again. It's all a conscious decision. Do you reckon? What, he's actually scared to sit in a comfy chair? It's a decision. If he chooses to, he would sit on that edge there versus this one here. Just because he knows that if he sits here, his energy's gone and he's like oh fuck it I'll just if he sits there he will entertain everyone all day we need to get him on the pod that's a goal for over the next couple of years I haven't told you this before Sam's flair for entertainment and charisma from his dad from your dad he is the real star of the show so tying this into the health thing do you want to know something interesting about both of them both massive hypochondriacs correct do you remember when I cut my foot in my bed your dad Do you remember that fucking...

43:17Oh my God. I mean, I was thankful for it, but your dad had in his beach bag a... What do you call it? Like a Tupperware. A Tupperware? Like a box. Not a small one. A truck. No, sorry, it's a truck. It's a whole truck. Of all different sizes of antiseptic creams and wipes, plasters, bandages, scissors. He just got it out so quick. He's like, come here, Ryan. Yeah, the man needs to be sponsored by Jamilid. To be fair, we should all just be doctors. To be fair, we should just be more like Mike Thompson. Well, that's true. Sam used to be to be fair he still is he still is he still is mate I spoke to him two days ago he heard that I had a really croaky voice and he literally was like haha that was me I gave you that like so isn't that fucked up but Sam's Sam's also the sort of bloke that loves the fact that I don't sleep well he's like great I slept great he revels in other people's misery like the moment you're feeling like a bit crap he's like absolutely thrilled it's so disgusting he is a hyper contract though anyway I felt like we couldn't when I was growing up we couldn't really skive off for being sick because we were a boarding school so it wasn't like you could stay home and like pretend to your parents and then they would you definitely went to the SAM yeah but the SAM wasn't nice so it wasn't actually a good option do you know what's oh I've got a funny story about the SAM so isn't that funny though like do all schools have like a sanatorium or is that just a boarding school thing it's a boarding school thing is it?

44:42In my junior boarding house, which my brother at the time was head of house, I remember I had my first experience of trapped wind. And I was like 11 or whatever, 10. And I was like, dude, Adam, I'm in so much fucking pain. Like, what's happened? And I'm like bent over on like my bed. Anyway, he takes me to the sand and they're like, I think it might be trapped wind. Anyway, they gave me like this milk of magnesium or calcium magnesium thing. I remember sleeping like, oh. I remember I had like a day off school, so no lessons. I was like, great. age 10, and I was just trumping away in this bed. And the, what do you call them?

45:17Like the matron or whatever. Yeah. She was coming in to like deliver me like hot Ribenas and things. And I just couldn't stop trumping. She was just in the room. Why are you calling it trumping? I've never heard you say trump before. I was just farting. Like, and I was like, I was like, I'm so sorry about this. And she's like, it's fine. It's doing the, the thing's working. And I'm like, what's fucking working? What did you give me? Like a hound dog. Did you feel amazing? Well. You're, you love farting why okay I'll sit down probably for another day I've actually never said Trump I'd love to know why guys love farting it's just funny it's just funny that's it it's just funny or is it like because you actually all secretly love the feeling of something coming through your sphincter oh my god that just took a strange turn no it's purely just because it's funny yeah yes okay at least for me nice no it's not funny when you do it though I don't do it because I don't have a bum hole anymore should we move away from the farting and get back to like our usual style of chat we did get a little bit sidetracked there yeah I think it's maybe the staying relevant influence influence Leah was right naughty and nice should I turn I think one of the things that we wanted to talk about today was like the importance of human connection I read actually a horrible stat the other day about Gen Z.

46:42I think they said some research suggesting that like 37 % of Generation Z say that they don't get enough human interaction. That's quite sad. That is sad. It's actually far worse than just sad. It's actually really dangerous. Because as humans, we're not programmed for anything but connection. Survival and everything else is very much attached to that. I know that before I spoke about how burnt out I was at the back end of last year, and a big part of that was being so inside my own head that I lost interaction with close friends and family. And I don't think we prioritised doing nice things together ourselves because I was probably spending too much time on technology and social media.

47:32And that's not a nice place to be. It's not healthy. like it's so important to take a step back and i think now we live in this age where there's also a lot of noise that is being created to suck us into that vortex without us even knowing obviously by us mentioning on things like this now people will start to become more aware but like all of these platforms are literally designed you know there are hundreds of thousands of jobs whose sole purpose is to get people to interact with things more that feels like really gross to me I I had a moment I can't believe I'm admitting this so you and Leo went away maybe you went camping like a couple of months ago and I yeah I know can we go camping together this year because I actually didn't you didn't invite me on any of your camping trips last year and I'm it was on my bucket list to go camping all right this is the year um and i basically spent like an entire 24 hours i don't think i even slept oh yeah having a conversation with ai it was an overload so that is then an example of okay replacing the human connection i didn't need to pick up the phone and speak to my mate olivia and ask how her weekend was going or how she was i didn't go out and see a friend i didn't pop next door to see sam probably didn't even go on a dog walk instead i thought that i was problem solving and i know it was coming i was just like having a chat with this computer yeah but you loved it didn't you yeah and in the moment i loved it that was the worrying thing so i figured out i set myself up with like this whole business model on like how i was going to get from like one property to like 10 properties and how much passive income i was going to have in five years time I also what else did I do oh I had like real intense conversations about like health everything is a balancing act things like podcasts are really beautiful because you know that you're listening to two real people and so you choose to like invest in in that conversation in that form of media and I also think for us like we've both really started leaning into our love for writing and that there's something that feels quite pure about that wouldn't you say like you with your letters for Leo me with setting up my sub stack it kind of feels like it's going back to you know 10 years ago when people first started writing blogs and you can write like really authentically from the heart and share that in a space that feels like quite safe I've got a lot to say on this one I'm trying I figure out where to start.

50:22I don't know if this answers what this is going towards, but maybe it's a reflection of where I'm at with my own content creation and just output of things.

50:34I'm aware of AI. I'm not anti-AI, but I'm very pro-human. And what I mean by that is that AI might be able to structure and generate templates and emails and whatever else but in my mind at least it could never it can't generate memories or attach emotions that you feel they can't input or insert soul that louise thompson has and i just think it's very easy to see what has been generated by ai versus written by someone's heart so my letters to leo for example i started that as part reflection part lesson part memory it was all happening so fast in front of me. I was like, I've got to do something to capture this.

51:20It's like holding sand in your hands. It's going through. You're trying to hold it. And I was like, if I do, if I write a letter each week, it's going to ground me in my fatherhood journey. It's going to, it's going to encourage me to, to focus on the detail that most people miss, which I think is really beautiful in its own right. And at some point in Leo's life, hopefully, he might pick up a letter, at which point he's going to have a fucking lot of letters to potentially read but it's probably my most natural way of expressing myself because there's no filter and there's no right or wrong you're just writing for the heart and actually it's not going to be broadcast to anyone it's just for one person You've always been really good at writing do you think you're better at writing than talking?

52:08Oh, without a doubt, yeah But you're actually very good at talking as well as in you sound good when you talk Well, I think the writing is probably it's like one less dimension isn't it like it's not visual so it so it's it's sort of like written word versus like well let me put let me put it this way for a long time i i kind of suppressed unintentionally this um idea of communication so verbal and writing when i was a kid i used to write my dad letters all the time did you all the time my dad's kept them did you yeah what kind of things would you write very basic ones i'd have like tick boxes as well but like did you sleep last night i'd have the yes no and maybe tick boxes and he thought that was very sweet yeah well also that's probably because your dad was away in the military quite a lot when you were growing up yeah i used to write it i used to write letters to other family members but probably most to him because of that reason yeah um and then i think somewhere in my 20s and early 30s i probably thought that i don't know that it wasn't cool or manly to be doing that so kind of squished that and never really did the whole writing thing and then i think as a result of all of this in terms of like what we've lived through the changes in my communication it it it gave me permission is the best way to describe it actually gave me gave me permission to start being really open and just like talking freely, writing freely from the heart.

53:40So the letters to Leo I do every week. I post it every 7am, every Tuesday. And it's not work, it's not hard. I'm just, it's a stream of my consciousness. Like coming from up there, straight through my body, up through my hand. Does it feel like therapy? Do you uncover things? I find when you write, you uncover things that you didn't know that you... I suppose it does feel like... We've been capable of thinking. Yeah, but I don't know if it's therapy or just very affirming in the moment. You've actually written me quite a few letters and I've kept them all. We had a bit of a clear out over Christmas and I was like, oh my God, this is the letter folder.

54:19And I think that that is such an attractive personality trait because there really is nothing more special than someone that's chosen to slow down, to put pen to paper to write a really meaningful message to then deliver that to somebody. And you've always been amazing at it. Every birthday, Valentine's Day, sort of special occasion. Even when you have, when something's like happened, you'll write a letter and it means so much to the person receiving it. Like I think it's like kind of the like best thing that you could ever do to somebody if you want to land a message. if you want someone to respect you, if you want, it's also like really good manners.

55:02I don't know. I remember like thank you letters are just like, there's nothing more thoughtful than a thank you letter. Every time I open a letter that I received through the door, like it puts a master smile on my face. And actually, do you remember when we were really in a bad spot following Leo? We received so many letters. They were the things that actually got me through but okay so that's that's great so what what better example of um human connection and love and soul and i think it's a really good it's like the biggest green flag actually if you're like dating a guy and they are capable of writing you something big fat green flag if they haven't got time for letter writing i think they're too cool red i agree in the dustbin in the dustbin we've started writing as well so i actually don't really know what your sub stack is about that's okay you don't need to read it well you live it i won't slack you off on it um i've i've actually found i was actually so bad at english at school i used to regularly get told by my english teachers i had no creativity and i just was not my thing and then again like when i I was ill, I started writing, and it was the only way I could get out the mental thoughts and the speed of the thoughts in my head.

56:25And it really brought me back to the present, especially when I was feeling really dissociated. Everything felt like this big sort of blur, like things were moving around me really quickly. Why is everything so quick in your work? Because I'm sort of... When Louise writes a letter... I get cramped from my hand. I wrote a letter this morning. It's on the laptop. I don't know if you, do you turn it into a handwritten version as well? No. No. But it's like, I don't know how it's happening so quick. Because your hands are like bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. It's like ferocious speed. And I watch it and I'm like, it's not making me feel good watching this.

57:01Do you feel good writing it? Because it looks like you're like pounding the keyboard. And I'm like, is it your brain that's going quick? Or are you just like twitching? I don't know what's happening. I'm like, what are you doing? I don't think I'm that normal. So you're like pounding the keyboard like this, like I'm going to fucking crunch this substack. And then there's me at like 5am with like a pen, like a sloth, like so different. That's like the best way to describe me and Louise. Pounder and like a sloth. Pounder sounds like a little sexual. Yeah, you're right. I don't know. Yeah, I think I'd just get it all out like exactly as I'm thinking it.

57:38And you do think like, do we have 33 ,000 thoughts a day? It doesn't sound like that much but it's a really nice habit that we found ourselves in. I'm really genuinely pleased that you like writing because I think it's a really beautiful thing for both the person writing it and receiving it. Yeah, so I'd encourage actually everybody at home to do it more. There is actually something quite cool that we have decided to do and it's a sort of time capsule. So we've written each other letters and also we've written a personal letter to ourselves that we thought that we would put away somewhere for safekeeping for a year and then we could get it out on the anniversary of this episode.

58:18It's a great idea. Isn't that cool? Yeah. I love stuff like that. We'll tuck it away in these shelves. No one's allowed to read them. Well, should we put them in that box now and then you can see if it fits there? Nice. Okay, I've actually got my two letters just here. Also, I feel like the stuff that we've written, And like, the stuff that I've written to myself will be really useful to have just behind my ear. It says, dear Louise, to be opened one year from now and not before. Because if this was at home, Louise would open it tonight. I really want to read that. I love your signature. Ryan's got an R for a signature with a teddy bear at the end of it.

59:02That came through in autumn, winter 2025. Creative. mine says to run to open in one year's time let's see how far we've come cute this is a great fucking idea I love this oh it says memory lane on it there you go this is so cool pop it in there oh I love like a little ritual like this if I get up I'll probably knock something over so you see if you see if you can shimmy your little hips up there I think that's based there here yeah oh my god it was made for that's such a cool idea first day

59:48that's dope I'm excited to read that letter what did you write about? well again this is what Louise does she's like I'm going to try and eke out all the I know Ryan loves a surprise I do he's really you're quite cute and sentimental do you reckon Leo will listen to this podcast one day what I know is that Leo at some point will become aware of how much love and just I think we're I think we're pretty brilliant at parenting Leo and just looking at this is just one room of you know a few rooms in which we sort of work and live in and it's all of them are dominated by Leo. Leo is so central to what we do.

1:00:36No, but that's epic. It's like, he's so, he is like so, he's like the absolute core and essence of what we do. So to sit here in a chair and to look at photos of my son, fuck, I mean, it's amazing. So do I think he's going to watch or listen to this show? Maybe, but it's not like I'm, it's not like I have a hope that he does. But if he does, I want to know I want to feel comfortable and proud knowing that should that day arise when he listens to an episode I want him to know we did a good job like oh my god my mum is so sweet and oh my dad my dad is like he's got my back we have a responsibility yeah but we shouldn't we shouldn't assume he's going to listen no but the output and the result we should be really comfortable and proud with oh he's going to be so fucking cool he already is cool but he's just going to be so much cooler than me which is, by the way, the number one goal for me.

1:01:40Just turn out better than me in every way and I'm done. Is that your actual ambition? Yes. As a parent? Yeah. Do you know what's funny? Is that when he grows up we can say to him if you want to know how not to live your life watch me and Chelsea when we're on it. If you want to know how to live your life listen to he said she said yeah well thanks so much that was really quite nice yeah I feel like lighter great I feel like I've had a therapy session someone I love and trust well thank you guys so much for listening I hope that there was something a little nugget that you could take away from it and apply to your your own life so given that we have a new home we also have a new email address and we'd love to hear from you guys.

1:02:32So if you want to get in touch, you can write us a little letter. Oh! You can post it in. I probably won't give you the address, otherwise some people might get some stalkers. But you can email us and the email address is hsss at srproductions.co.uk. That will also be in the show notes. Also make sure to follow and subscribe to us at hesaid.shesaid.podcast. Amazing. See you next week. See you next week. Thanks so much. love you that's very polite

1:03:29Thank you.