Ryan’s GENIUS hack for social anxiety

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0:38Hello, welcome to He Said, She Said. This is an opportunity for us to look at the challenges of life and all that it throws at us, offering two perspectives in the same conversation. With no script, we are about to give a very personal, sometimes emotional reaction to recent events in our lives we hope you enjoy this episode and hope that it sparks helpful conversation in your own world you ready yeah let's get into it let's go have you got he said this week she said i've no you've got a he said from our recent trip so you gotta kick this one off so ryan said i've got magic goggles on when we were in havar so we've had a couple of holidays over the last few weeks, which has felt really needed.

1:24Completely. We were very fortunate. We dropped Leo off down in Devon for a staycation or beach trip. For his annual trip to Devon. He had to stay with Ryan's parents who were so good with him. And we managed to escape to Havar in Croatia for my cousin's, I always say 90th, and people are like, wait, you're a 90-year-old cousin. So my cousin's 50 and she's got a toy boy husband who's 40. And so they both turned 40 and 50 this year. So they did a joint 90th and it was pretty epic. It was epic. We haven't been back to Havar since we went there for, I don't know what season it was of Made in Chelsea, but years back.

2:03And every time I go back, I've only been twice, but I'm just so amazed how nice Croatia is. It's beautiful. It's really expensive now though. So Havar used to be a bit of a party island. I remember going when I was at uni with girlfriends. We'd go on girls trips there. and and also there's an island called pag i think they have a few festivals there hideout was pretty major yeah and then havar was really beautiful had an amazing port with a nice um uh like you know old town around this big courtyard yeah but but also there was that little island what's it called carpe diem a nightclub on an island but this year it closed down because the owner of that and hula hula this other club had a massive fist fight in front of loads of people yeah so So like the kind of head of the island was like, right, you need to close your clubs down.

2:49So I think they're trying to refine that. Really? Yeah. Keep it up market. Which is actually a bit of a shame because we were there for a wild one. But our flight was full of like stag dudes, wasn't it? Oh my God. Yeah. Because we flew into Split. I was supposed to be filming a video for Charlotte Tilbury, doing a makeup video. A little old me on the plane, like putting my, what's it called? Just the little like desk bit down. You can have face masks and all sorts of stuff. And I wanted to do a really sophisticated beauty video. And we were surrounded by aithens. They were so loud. I've never heard a louder group of men.

3:24Like normally amongst a sad group, you get different personalities. I'm always quite intrigued. They'll be like the cute ones or the slightly younger ones. Who's like the younger cousin, maybe a couple of dads. They were all so noisy. They were full send for the whole flight. They were full send. Anyway, yeah. The last time we were there was when we were filming me and Chelsea. Yeah. And what's weird is the kind of one memory I have of that trip was when we went to a cliffy beach and it was just me, you and Miles. And I just remember finding it a really weird trio. And then we actually saw him at Wimbledon, didn't we?

3:55Yeah. God, he looks good at the moment. When I met him at Wimbledon, I was like, jeez. I know, he looks great, doesn't he? Yeah. But no, back to the annual trip to Devon for Leo. Really special memories of being made there. Once again, my parents did that photo album of his week down there, which is so sweet. He took it into school. Did he? Yeah. Wait, you didn't tell me that. I did tell you that. No, you didn't. Oh, well, he took it into school. Well, he took that photo album your parents made for him into school, like a show and tell. Yeah. Like, hey, look, I've been selling myself on the beach.

4:28It's so sweet. But how did you feel about going to Croatia without him? I felt like it was a good thing. Yeah. I think we needed some time one-on-one. Did you do any stories to suggest that you were like missing a chunk or something? Because I had a really sweet message from Marvin Humes on like day two of our holiday there. Really? Yeah. And it was like, it was a voice note and it was very sweet. Yeah. It was really sweet. I didn't even know. How does he have your number? No, it was on Instagram. Yeah. But yeah, he sent me a really sweet message. And I wonder if he just like picked up on some feeling or message that you or I.

5:01I feel like we took quite a lot of time to, time away from social media. we haven't done a lot of posting i did maybe put up a few like funny airport stories he basically said he's like dude you guys really deserve a little break don't worry about leo like we all feel the mom and dad guilt around leaving them but he him and rochelle do it quite often they say as in they do so gorge that he sent me that message yeah like took the time out of his day to do that it actually was he's a kind man sam has always said he's a very kind man and every interaction I've had with him has been like velvet. He sent me a message on my birthday.

5:37Did he? Yeah. Bloody hell. Miles and Marvin, you guys are heroes. How did you find the holiday? I had a great time. It was because it's so rare that we get time away from Leo. We have this like one golden egg of an opportunity each year. I really wanted to make the most of it. And given that we were there as part of a big group, I think there was 70, 80, all of us. It was practically a wedding. in Croatia for three nights, four days maybe? Four days, yeah. We really wanted to make the most of it. So we actually decided to stay somewhere that was away from the gang. So they were down in the south of the island and we stayed somewhere quite remote, which was maybe 20 minutes north, so that we could make sure that we could carve out some time just for us.

6:22Which we did really successfully. We did. We had like a full – it sounds so crazy because when you were like young or before you have a family, you just really take advantage of time. time alone we had maybe like was it a full day we'd still had to do something that evening we had like the best part of a day together and it felt like we had a lifetime together that's it so we had that we had the arrival dinner and drinks on the thursday friday we had pretty much the whole day to ourselves and we like settled into conversation from breakfast through to dinner and we never do that except on a wednesday because we also had to accept today but that feels different because we're not it's not really just us it's with all you guys as well That Friday was, that was the holiday there.

7:05Why did it feel so special? Combination of reasons. I think it's because I learned something really new about you. Yeah, you did. You did. Most of the day, either smiling with pride or laughing was just like, who's this pleb? Yeah. So basically, we ended up having a really deep conversation around like social skills. Yeah. I think because of the environment that we were in, we basically, as you mentioned, we had this evening, this first night, which was a big drinks party. And so we were there with people that we didn't really know very well, bar my cousin, who I didn't speak to really once over the four days because she was in hosting mode.

7:45You haven't seen that group for about 10 years, you said before. No, it was quite weird. So the last time I saw this group of people who are all older than us, for the most part, because my cousin just turned 50, was at my cousin's 40th, which was 10 years ago. And she had this big party in Gestade. And I was at a very different stage in my life. And I've always kind of felt a sense of imposter syndrome around that group of people. I've always felt a lot younger than I am. And I always feel like I need people, please. And I try really hard to fit in. I just can't engage because there's no common ground when it comes to conversation.

8:23Except there is. And so this last time we were there, so it was actually, I remember it was when I was doing The Jump, that TV show where I was in Innsbruck and maybe Austria. And I know it was Switzerland because then I got the train to Gershlad. And it was like this three days of mayhem. And it was a great party. I remember my brother turned up on his own and he just in typical Sam fashion like left his whole suitcase on the train. Yeah. So then he didn't have any outfit to wear, but it was, but I felt like really out of my depth then. And I think I was on like a kid's table and I got really - Which straight away puts you on the back foot.

9:06Which puts you on the back foot. And also I was, I just got really drunk, like obliterated. Yeah. Everybody else was as well, to be fair. So you're saying that when you saw this group, you sort of went back to that party? Yeah, I was triggered a bit. Interesting. And also I couldn't really remember anyone's name. So people kept coming up going, oh, hey, Louise, really nice to see you again. It was one of those occasions where you have to go really nice to see you instead of really nice to meet you. Because you just have to assume that you've met everyone before. And when they would reintroduce themselves, I'd be like, oh my God, I can't remember who you are.

9:39And also I probably really embarrassed myself because I would have been really, really drunk, probably throwing up. And we, we weren't together at that time. So then I can say that I could probably hook up with someone. No, I wasn't around then. No. So this felt, this was, this was different because obviously sober now and 10 years on. And with you. And this is interesting though, because this, this is like the whole dual perspective thing about like you, you didn't find your feet for a good two days. Yeah, so we basically, so we had this drinks the first night and then the next day it woke up and I couldn't understand how Ryan basically like breezed into this party room and was so like confident but also energized and felt really good the next morning and why I felt really drained and like sapped of self-esteem when normally I'm better in social status.

10:35Usually you're the one that works the room. Yeah. And there was a scenario. So, God, we shouldn't really say this, should we? Basically, if there are people that we really struggle to get on with, we call them bananas. And that's really bad to say. But like when someone's just a banana, like, no. You've just got nothing in common with someone with their own banana. And I think I found myself in conversation with a couple of people. I just, I couldn't. I just thought, I'm here. I've only, I've got four days off in the year. and I don't want to be sat next to someone making small talk. So I asked you how you handled it.

11:12And you basically shed light on this whole scenario and you came up with this analogy of a sponge. Well, this was on Friday when we were like in a good flow of conversation. Yeah. And I was speaking, because you basically asked me that question. You're like, what happened to you last night basically? Because you were in your flow. And I just thought that it was a good opportunity to like really explain who I am in some way. Because I still think that you, there are times in my mind at least where I think that you think I'm just like a antisocial, sometimes rude dude who just doesn't really want to integrate with people.

11:49But that is not the truth. I've always been like the observer, quiet guy, not really feeling the need or the urgency to like steal any limelight in conversation. So I've always been on the sort of periphery, but all the while I am the sponge. And I mean, like, I am soaking up everything from body language to weird conversations to tics that people have. Like, honestly, I seem to absorb it all. And then I started to explain to you, like, how, as I've gotten older and more confident in my own, like, self-awareness and how I operate and maneuver in different situations, I said that I'm quite selective on how I squeeze my own sponge.

12:29And what I mean by that is, like, who do I want to, like, get into a conversation with? like and there are so many signals that people give off in these social settings and i this is where the magic goggle thing came from because i was like i feel like i've got magic goggles having lived through trauma with you done a whole bunch of work on self-development and awareness with you and myself i feel like i've now got a superpower where i can cut through bullshit and i can be like i can see that that person wants to have a conversation and i'll just go straight in but so ryan basically walks into a room and you explained it as you actually have an aerial view of the entire room.

13:03Like you observe everything from above and you can see everybody's personalities and emotions through their body language. Like you've got this superpower and you literally then like maneuver around the room and you plant yourself over there. But you know, wait, who? Oh, there's an extension of this. Someone told me recently, celebrities always stand in the corner of a room. If you stand in the corner of your room, you're back to the wall no no sorry sorry not you but they you basically are very hard to be you're kind of unapproachable and then you get to analyze the whole room and you get to choose who you are where you want to squeeze your sponge so you go oh that's where i feel like i'm going to spend some of my energy yeah i get what you're saying and when you're also in a conversation to say because there are lots of groups of people everyone's feeling the same everyone's standing and he's like groups of three or four, like awkwardly just going, how was your flight?

13:59You're like, no one wants to talk about how your fucking flight was. Yeah, exactly. No one cares about travel plans. Can we stop talking about the weather? Like shut the fuck up. At this point, I put the goggles on. Like tell me about your most traumatic moment in your entire life and then we can talk. No, but this is my superpower. This is where the magic goggles come in because I'm like, I can't operate at this top line, superficial chit chat that you've just described. Like there's nothing to get from that. You, there's nothing, you don't leave that conversation being like, that was that was great so i now combination of reasons have developed this like approach in conversations where i go deep quick but what i've noticed is that everyone kind of wants to go deep quite quick if you ask the right questions but you're doing it really well now your body language suggests that you want to continue this this talk so i'm like in and by the way there are conversations i've had with friends who will be like over here and be like dude and they'll like close themselves off and make it obvious they don't want to talk but honestly that party everyone had a story and some heavy stuff they all wanted to they all just wanted to chat we ended up creating our own dinner table at the party yeah people were like in and out the whole time it was like an interview i was like come and sit down inky come and sit down georgina honestly and these people are like 65 plus no they're not some of them are offensive they're 50 but some of them Okay, 50 to 60 then.

15:18Like, in reality, I've got no right to be operating like that, but I just felt so at ease. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does make sense. I'm remembering who told me about the celebrity thing. It was when we were at Wimbledon, one of the PRs that we were working there with. She said that she comes across a lot of celebrities because she works at Vodafone and they're constantly in partnerships with people. And I found that a really interesting observation. But yeah, this is also very interesting. What else did you see at Wimbledon? Another example. So, okay, but there's a couple of different things here.

15:46So first of all, there's the sponge situation, which is where as you get a bit older and you find you're more tired and you've got less time for bullshit and you just really start to value your precious time, you realize that you can't expend too much of your energy, which is squeezing the sponge on people. Like you've got to be, you don't need to go around and tell everybody your story. You don't need to sell yourself. Like this is where I've been getting it wrong my whole life. I feel like I need to - everyone give and impress everybody in every conversation so i'm just squeezing and i'm and also i'm absorbing everything so i'm not being selective i'm going around and i'm literally absorbing everyone's bullshit and i'm also telling everyone my bullshit and so everyone is just sad and instead i think we can as adults find the confidence to stand in a room and go no actually i don't want to talk to you but actually you i do want to talk to you because i know that i've got something in common with you so i'm going to squeeze a little bit there i'm going to absorb bit of your stuff and we can connect who's a good example of this your uncle so my uncle so i've always my uncle who we laugh about so hard and i spoke to people about it at this party because my brother didn't come to this this party because whatever like work and sam never goes on holiday no so my uncle is incredibly successful he doesn't talk a lot that might come across as rude being rude.

17:07You need to tell the example of Sam. Well, but now you've explained to me this whole analogy of the sponge. I have so much respect for this man because this is a man who is not going to waste his energy on a conversation that isn't meaningful and that no one's going to get anything out of. It's like a conversation I just had with your dad when we were in Greece. He said, conversations should have a beginning, middle and end. They need to have an agenda. Otherwise, it's just time and energy. Anyway, so this guy is very hard to communicate with but now i understand why and i feel like we figured him out so when we went for dinner at my cousin's house actually in london a couple of years ago he went up to my brother this is actually unrelated but just to remind you this is sam's uncle he said he said to sam oh nice to meet you he literally went up there were only there were only 10 of us at this dinner like in my cousin's flat and he literally went oh hi there nice to meet you mate sam was like what the fuck which goes to show like how like he's he's so not in the room because he's like there's no point yeah but he's he's an intellect and he enjoys reading and writing and stuff so i don't judge that behavior anymore so yeah there's the whole sponge thing but also what i didn't know about you is that you literally have this like aerial view of situations so when there are a group of us you're above looking down literally at whether someone's arms are open or they're closed or someone's turning away from you i don't know you've just got a lot more confidence in the last couple of years with speaking to people and so at wimbledon you went over to tommy fury we're in this hospitality box we're in a queue for some food and you just marched over to him while he sat down having a private conversation with someone and you just went hey mate nice to meet you introduced yourself exchanged a couple of words came back and the first thing i said to you was good vibes bad vibes because i know that you're analyzing body language from people yeah in that above state yeah and you said good vibes great vibes great vibes he was really open to that yeah very and do you think that that's because you're going in being open like what are you doing what is this magic goggle that i need to suck from you well I feel like we're we're sort of jumping around on this topic but basically combination of like lacking confidence as a kid going through a really traumatic thing with you building as a person finding your lane understanding like where you operate best in different situations I now don't have the same hesitation when I meet people because I'm just I'm confident in what I can offer to any conversation now pretty much it's a mindset thing right so if you start to overanalyze you start to hesitate if you start to hesitate you doubt and then you end up just crumbling and that you don't really execute how you want to do so i think i'm just now at a place and i should be here as a 35 almost man it's a new lease of confidence and just presence and um understanding understanding that actually people all have their own sort of insecurities and if you can if you can sort of get past that and facilitate a conversation where they feel like oh this is actually quite nice do you know I mean yeah basically what I'm saying as a younger me I didn't quite realize that going to a party in Havar with 70 odd people who are older I would never assume that they've got problems in their own mind or insecurities or things that they're dealing with but in reality everyone does so when you understand that you're like oh this is not quite as intimidating because if I'm feeling something it's likely that they're feeling something yeah so you you start to like you start to observe a little bit differently like who is giving off like i don't want to be here slash who's giving off like a right i want to make this work and i want to have a good time i'm going to sit here and open up and give some signals that i'm ready to like and honestly i'm looking for it i'm looking wait that's so interesting so you're looking for someone that looks like they want to they're going to accept you into their space but this all this all happens in like a flash of seconds yeah yeah you're you're sort of like you're happy you're amping me up maybe too much i'm just so curious because i'm so dumb i literally walk into a room and i'll speak to anybody and the only one that comes up to me and i'm literally like hey but that's actually nice that's nice old ryan would walk into that and be like paralyzed by fear be like oh my god how do i operate in this room now i'm like straight up straight up to the aerial view yeah and then i'm back down and i'm in but do you find somebody you go i know i can connect with that dude in the corner like raising his beer to me i'm like my guy or my woman did you have to practice though to find the confidence to go and introduce yourself to go up to a stranger that might be someone famous or someone that's achieved a lot in a room and go i'm actually going to go and make the first move that does come with with practice because now i feel like we've had this conversation whenever we're together.

22:11Like it's almost like we, like we, well, we haven't done it since we got back. But when we were there for the rest of the trip, we were like, let's experiment with this and stand. Like when we're on the boat trip, let's stand back and see where we want to go with the day. That first interaction with people when you meet them as well, men or women is really important, isn't it? And I've actually, I've learned a trick from someone, I think it was from Carlos. Carlos has got massive hands, right? Yeah. So when I meet someone now, let's just do it. I make my hand as big as possible so that you have no choice but just to nestle in there.

22:42Oh, that's so sexy of you. Yeah, but if I go smaller, there's a chance for error. You can be clumsy. And that's a fucking awkward situation. So I deliberately, I'm like, give him a shovel. You're so clever. And then we're in and it's like, I've got you already. You're so clever and you go in for a hug. Okay. Oh yeah, but that's the same way with whip. I go like wide arms, not like a shy, I'm like, get in here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's just make it comfortable straight away. But it's the same for the handshake. And if, by the way, if I meet a bloke, I've told you before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always spoke about handshakes.

23:13Okay, fine. So it's gotta be like big, warm, open, like I'm a big bear and I'm gonna let you in. You're my cub. Yeah, let me reframe what a bear is to you. Okay, can I - Come on. So let me ask you a question then. How do I as a little person be a big bear? Because I go into these scenarios and I immediately, and I actually spoke to some of the women that were on that trip about this. Cause weirdly there were quite a few short women there about how we feel like, well, one of them was saying to me, oh, it's funny, like I'll always look like a 20-year-old, even though I'm in my 50s because I'm so small.

23:48And I was like, I guess we've got that on our side. But when you're standing in a group of people who are much taller than you, overlooking you, and you're just like little old person down there in the middle looking up, it's really hard to find your confidence and your voice. I think when I look at you, I think you've got the advantage. I've had to like learn a way around it but you you walk into your room and people are like who's that cute little sweet thing with like big cherry cheeks and smiley face like you've got it easy because you've got a very approachable face as well I think I've got like a pretty stern pitbull face like you used to tell me about you know I've had to learn about pitbull you're a staffy put it this way if I walked in and didn't know you and I saw your little chops I'd be like I'm coming in wallop here's the big yeah i would i don't think you've got anything to worry about but of course that's just like a perspective from here but you've got your own stuff in your own mind i just sometimes feel like when i'm speaking to older people that i'm out of my depth but i didn't so i didn't find that a problem this time because i realized that we have stuff going on in our life whether it's parenting issues like trying to get this country house thing sorted which is serving up some some problems um but just just like grown-up stuff and actually now that we've reached that certain threshold like we could connect with a lot of the people that were there and instead use it as an opportunity to ask those questions and so instead of doing lots of talking i just sucked information out of many people as i possibly could and was like these are all older wiser people than me so let's learn from their experience that's the phase i'm at in my Do you ever feel, because you're small already, but when you feel awkward in a social environment, do you ever feel even smaller?

25:31Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can relate to this. I'm a very awkward person. I have to have pockets so I can put my hands in them and hide. Now that I don't drink, not having a drink in my hand is hard. Like not knowing where to look. Okay, I can really relate to this. Unless I'm stuck into a conversation that I really know that I'm confident in and that someone else is really interested. I hate that like I hate that small talk thing at the beginning where I'm like oh my god there's a big tall large man looking down at me like talking about I feel five years old really basic and I feel five okay so that feeling I used to get all the time in social environments and I'm not actually that small but in those environments I could feel myself shrinking and I had it I had a flash of it the other day when I met your man Chris Robshaw the guy's like a big bloke right and for the first few seconds of me meeting him i i could see my you know honey i shrunk the audience the movie is that the movie or honey i shrunk the kids yeah mate i literally in my mind was like i was going small and i was like i need to get a lid on this managed to turn it around but it's so interesting that you can actually feel yourself getting smaller in awkward moments like that yeah turns out i've had pictures with him and i had a great evening with him we're probably not that far off the same size in reality but in my mind i was like oh my god i need to sort this shit out now you're even shaking as usual about it isn't that such a weird phenomenon is that the word phenomenon yeah where you actually feel yourself shrinking okay so on that note i have a question i don't know whether we've ever spoken about this before but i spoke to amanda wallace who was one of our fitness clients about this before so when i was really unwell and i used to dissociate a bit i would also get this really weird thing where um like objects or like my own hands would actually like change proportion so they would either feel like really big or really small yeah and like literally like that sometimes i walk into the kitchen i'd be like oh my god like that island is enormous and sometimes it would it would almost like warp oh wow i think that's just a really weird crazy part of my brain and and i used to get it a bit when i was younger i wonder what was going on there can someone please dm me about what that phenomenon is man do you know i've just figured this out one of my like draws to the gym as a younger around was because i was trying to fight back against feeling small in social situations so i was like if i make myself big it won't happen wow it doesn't work that way of course because whatever you think in your mind is more powerful than anything so it just takes over but how funny is that gosh that's interesting you i do have a she said yeah you she said i've got a book for you before we went to this trip.

28:11Yeah, we doubled down. We read the same book, which is such a cute old coupley thing to do. I don't think we've ever done that, by the way. I don't think we actually have, no. We've never like co-read. We've never done our own little book club. No. Phenomenal book. We should do that. Well, actually, to be fair, if you give me a book like that, it was the most perfect content at the right time. Yeah. Don't believe everything you think. Yeah. Why was it so good? Before I went away, I think we were both in a very similar state of mind where we were just overthinking and our brains were so just messy and I couldn't really there was no space for thoughts or creativity or inspiration or motivation none of that was happening for a good few weeks it was just this like cycle of overthinking over analysis and ultimately arriving at negative heavy feelings and you gave me this book I remember I opened the bin you were stood right there I think it was the day before we flew or even the day we flew and you just put it in my And I was like, yeah, it's quite a small, easy reader.

29:11It's under 100 pages, a little white jacket book. You know what I have? White jacket book, nice. So if you look on that bookshelf, most of the self-help books have white jackets and very simple text on the front. Interesting. It's a category. But I liked it because it was really small. And so it felt like we could both get through it within four days. I've actually not finished it yet. Oh, I ate that up. I even made notes. One of my fondest memories was a breakfast on Saturday morning after our mega Friday. Sat there reading at breakfast, making little notes from the book. And I was like, oh my God, this is a moment.

29:45I haven't done that in years. Do you know what I mean? It felt really nice to extract information from a book that you're so like bought into and just have the time to do it. I feel like those are the best books, the ones that make you feel inspired to actually write something down. I have that moment rarely, but it's one of the best feelings ever. But the other time that I feel like that, and I guess this kind of leans into the topic of the book a little bit, is, well, no, because I think I've mentioned here before that I have all my best ideas in the shower. It's that time where you just disconnect from, you know, you let thoughts float in and out, but you don't attach lots of thinking to them.

30:27Yes. And that's a really precious time for me. And that's where I have all my ideas. I come up with inventions. I come up with caption ideas. I come up with conversation ideas that I want to have with people. Sometimes I get so excited that then I need to run out of the shower, make a note of something on my phone, run back into the shower. Then I'm like, oh my God, I'm just so inspired. And I love it when a book does that for you too. I would say about this book, it's very simple. It's quite spiritual. And I think if you are, you've got to be like in the right headspace to want to like tap into the messages that it's talking about.

31:01like if someone had said to me two years ago oh just detach from your thoughts i would have punched them in the face because i was analyzing every single thought that popped into my head and when you're severely mentally well you can't just detach from your thoughts but i'm you know really grateful to be in a place now where i can lean into the content in those kinds of books i actually meant to bring with me today my look because i had the from the hotel bedside table they had a small notebook and i i wrote loads of the quotes did you i've got one of them and it's It's from Christine Evangelou.

31:32Evangelou? And it says, A crowded mind leaves no space for a peaceful heart. And like these are the sorts of quotes that you would see on a regular day and you just kind of like, a bit like that flip chart there. It wouldn't really sink in. But these quotes were all sinking in and the foundation of the book is built around, it's not what we're thinking about that causes us suffering, but that we are thinking. And it's all about, if there's so much traffic and inbound thinking happening in your brain, There's no space for actual, as I say, moments of creativity and inspiration and real thoughts that are helpful and progressive.

32:06And also moments of love, as she just wrote. Like you can't love what's in front of you if you're constantly thinking about the next thing on your to-do list. Hence, we probably haven't really loved each other properly until that Friday where we're like, oh my God, I looked into your eyes and we were like laughing and smiling at each other and really enjoying each other's company. but also i don't know how much you want to spend on this book but there's there's a really interesting piece around setting goals yeah and like setting goals from a place of desperation or setting goals from a place of inspiration and it's all very connected to this this idea of actually having a thought versus an overthought an overthinking brain yeah it talks a lot about leaning into your intuition so knowing yeah it does that the the right thing is out there and that that was a well-timed message for you you can't over plan things either because a lot of life is down to luck and so things you know you can't control the minutiae in your life that pop up and that's one of my big problems which is why the book was important for me to read was that i try to control every inch of my life because i think that's going to lead to a perfect outcome but you've got to just let chance take control over lots of things and then trust in whoever your kind of spiritual guider is but whether it's God or the people around you or you know whatever that looks like you kind of got to go with the flow and and do things that feel good let's talk a little bit about the Greece trip then because that's the one we're fresh back from that I guess we basically bundled up our holidays and now we're we're around for the whole of the rest of the day it was rude of us um we went to Greece we went to somewhere called the Pelagone Club in Sikintos which is amazing for families and we actually took your parents and my mum and that's the first time we've ever done something like that and it felt like such a privileged position to be in to be able to pay for a trip to take our parents on to thank them basically for everything that they've ever done for us and you know they've taken us on a lifetime of holidays and paid for education and looked after us and so to be able to actually pay that back felt really amazing that's an example of having a goal from inspiration yes we spoke about that didn't we because that's very different to being like i just want to make money so i can by shit but having like a an inspiring thing in your mind where you're like if i can facilitate and enable a family holiday and take care of it that is such a healthy way to look at it so that is a goal for me moving forward to do that like yearly so we'll do like one really big really special family holiday and try and take as many four family members as possible is that not what that's is that not what the end of life looks like is that not the goal yeah that's the ticket it was funny because i haven't been back to this place for 20 years so i was last there when i was 14 and 15 i went with a friend from school with her family and it was nice to go back it felt like a real kind of 360 moment with our own our own child and also nice to take leo away because we haven't traveled with him i thought it was since 2023 but it was the beginning of 2024 when we had to fly back early for the stoma surgery I had to have.

35:12Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we didn't actually manage to do a summer holiday together last year and we've not really been, and I kind of feel like we slightly robbed him of that experience. So to be able to carve out a full week where we could go away and not touch our phones and not even take laptops, to bond and to also see our parents hang out with our son was very joyful. Yeah, we shouldn't have booked the creche for the week because we didn't use it once. We spent 500 quid on the creche for a week and we had a five to one ratio of five adults to one child. So that was dumb. He had the absolute time of his life, didn't he?

35:50But to watch him in that space though, whether it's the pool or the sea or the villa, which by the way was something out of my dreams, was very special. And actually when you see him in his like most happy, joyful moments, it's actually quite a... you realize that they don't really need much to make them happy. Do you know what I mean? Space and time. Space and time. I also think it's really important as parents to go away with your child, aside, away from the work setting. Because so much of our life here with him feels like a slog, or it's after work and we're picking up from nursery and we're, you know, a little bit short-tempered and we always do our best and we try to plan fun things for the weekend.

36:37But you do see a different side to your child when you spend an entire week with them and when everybody is relaxed and you get to then see the best bits of them. And then you really remember all of the reasons why you love them and why, you know, family is fantastic. Can I add to that point? Yeah. I spent a week with him, loved his company every second. Yeah. I think he had one - Like every second. He was talking. Like we had proper conversations. We never have them at home. He had one meltdown on the second to last day, but actually it didn't really jerk me too much. I've been back a couple of days.

37:08Yesterday, had a full working day of various projects going on but I was trying to get into it. Raced from Hammersmith back to Fulham, went to nursery, found myself feeling a bit panicked, took him for dinner at a restaurant and I could just feel my like, I wasn't enjoying his company as much because I felt rushed and pressurized. I was looking at my watch, I was like, it's already 6.15, you've got to be in bed at 7.30. Whereas when you're on holiday, you're so much more relaxed and present throughout the whole day yeah you let go of like routines and expectations from the child and you just let it unfold i felt i just caught myself and it feels by the way really shit yeah i was like oh my god i'm i'm now i've gone back to being like impatient grumpy dad which is like so bullshit for him well what's the remedy for that the the remedy is don't be so busy during the day don't be late for nursery get there an hour before and settle in well i think it's fine i think we need to buy back a bit of time for ourselves in the middle of the week but i think then on the weekend we've got to just adopt like that holiday mentality it's an example of how free we're very regimented with our scheduling he he gives us his best version and this completes this makes complete sense by if we're rushed focusing on work and other things not giving him our best attention he's like well i'm gonna throw it straight back at you yeah and that's why like he's been a little bit tricky since coming back because we're straight back into just the normal yeah so we'll reverse that because we're aware being self-aware is good yeah i had a bit of a breakdown on the tuesday of the holiday because i i fully unwound sunday monday then had a panic about work everything flooded back into my head i tried to be controlling over the team back here and I then ended up in a mental state where I had to have a near enough therapy session with your dad I know he's so useful by the way mate I know but also his military background I was in full blown panic mode myself I was like dad you're gonna have to step in at me I don't know what to do and I don't want to cause a scene but this is a problem leave it to me but you panicked?

39:16yeah panicked hard mate because we were there because I we were both there to unplug prioritise health and happiness for everyone but you are top of the list and then by day two you went back into this gremlin goblin mode no it was because i checked my phone and then i had a list of things that came in and i was i started to panic that i didn't have the control over something that could have been potentially a very lucrative project that we were working on and i realized i hadn't done a proper handover before we left so then come the tuesday i was suddenly noticing these things that weren't being done in the way that i would have done them myself and i and then i freaked out and you're i guess it's amazing the skills that someone develops from being in the military but also your dad ended up being a brigadier so very high up in the military and a lot of authority over managing different groups of people and then has had management roles ever since so to take some advice from someone like him who's good at working with people because not many people in my family have actually worked with people no it's very much a skill it's a huge skill and he taught me a lot um and then i completely let go for the rest of the trip and the good thing is bring him back bring him back for a weekly i think a big part of it is is that i i rarely trust people to do things on their own without me overseeing everything and micromanaging and the good thing is is that then i just i kind of handed everything over to to the people i work with and they've done a phenomenal job since since on that on that project like completely outdone themselves overperformed and so now i know that is that because you implemented some of the advice you had yeah i think i think that the conversation definitely needed to happen on tuesday and then i pull back and then now i feel really reassured that actually i don't need to be so involved in every single part of what we do which is really good because at some stage yeah I just I think unlike people who work in an office maybe for somebody else it's easy for them to step away when they're being paid a salary regardless of whether they're on holiday or not to properly unwind and I really we really deserve to give ourselves that breakaway as well so now I'm thinking I need to do more of it hell yeah mate what were you saying about the bees and the ants so that was quite revolutionary people getting squished and life's over oh what you were going through some deep moment about ants getting squished or something weren't you well the holiday was all pretty pretty vanilla what I literally said deep and you said vanilla well it just it was all really nice one moment I had was we spent a lot of time outside in nature Ryan got really into photography and he's actually an epic photographer you said something the other day and I'm going to steal it for my content, my series of photos.

42:02It's less of me, more of what I see. I just went balls deep on framing up moments of you and Leo and family. And actually it was great. And then you took the camera one morning, slid it to auto settings and like spapped a load of like nature photos. Which were really bad. And I thought it was stunning. I basically spent two hours photographing bees in lavender. You literally did. I've got about 380 photos of like blurred out bees and butterflies. yeah and then they're not going to get it it's like a child kind of on a disposable camera but how nice is that though do you know what i was in the hot tub at that point with leo and i was watching you skip around with no shoes and a camera and i was like i never wear shoes what a lovely way to spend the morning it was like 8 a.m i was like this is great it was good you know we never wear shoes and i never wear shoes around the house and i think the girls that work here think it's really gross i've always so does your mom your mom your mom was like ryan your feet are black you're disgusting yeah all of our parents wear like shoes the whole time i know i think We're like little Mowglis out there.

42:56We're really weird. But I have got like asbestos feet. Like you should. We're feral. We're feral. Yeah. So there was a lot of camera time. Whilst I was spending time with all these beetles and bees. Spending time with beetles. I was looking up. I had my eyes open and I found all of these weird like animals. And those weird like shells. These like empty like crickets and stuff. Anyway. and I what I realized was that we're just really this is so funny this is so funny I would love to have like observed this closer but I just realized that other animals have such a short lifespan bees die if they sting you a bee landed on Leo's arm and he panicked and I was like you literally cannot let that bee sting you not because I'm worried about your arm but I'm worried because that bee is going to die and he's only got that one shot at life unless you believe in reincarnation and and a lot of animals just have a short lifespan we're very lucky it just made me realize how lucky we are that we have so many days on earth that's fine and i really then enjoyed my holiday even more no that's great because i thought oh god i'm not this i've not got 10 days here and then it's the end shifts in perspective like that if it comes from a something like a bee or a shell of a cricket or something bigger that's all good shifts of perspective is good well what animals live really long lives like whales and tortoises yeah yeah i was gonna say turtles and turtles my mom always talks about this guy who's big into longevity who's trying to live until he's 200 i think the guy who's all across like netflix and stuff oh maybe the billionaire who spends yes so i feel like my mom tries to implement some of the stuff that he does she's got like all these like neuro like neuro air stimulators which actually i think there's some research that they're good for the central nervous for the vegas now and this is a conversation i'd love to get into this she's got a hyperbaric oxygen chamber at her house she's had one for like 10 years she does look unbelievably young she's got the body of a 40 year old we should we should talk about biohacking another time though because i am fascinated by that

45:10Hello, I'm Monica Reinagle, host of the Nutrition Diva podcast. Summer is here and with it, the hot and sticky weather. A morning working in the garden or maybe on the golf course can leave you more depleted than you realize. And plain water isn't always the most efficient way to restore the balance. That's where liquid IV comes in. Its science-backed formula is clinically proven to hydrate faster than water alone. Whether you're exercising, playing outside, or simply surviving a summer heat wave, it's an easy way to stay hydrated. Shop now at liquidiv.com. Liquid IV, hydration that goes wherever life takes you.

45:47Hey, it's your ceiling vent, so I'm dripping. Could be the rain, could be the upstairs bathroom. Yikes. You could hire the guy your neighbor recommended, but I'm pretty sure that's just his cousin. Do we know if he's licensed or does he just own a ladder? Listen to your home. Go with Thumbtack. Upload a photo or voice note and we'll diagnose your project and match you with the right pro for the job. Thumbtack. We know homes. Hire the right pro today. Let's do a listener submission because we really banged on about our holiday. Hit me with a question then. I'll shoot straight from the head. Okay.

46:25She said, can you handle being a bridesmaid? just for anyone that's listening the names have been changed in this for privacy I was in a uni friendship trio with a girl Karen who was emotionally abusive and linked to my CPTSD for anyone that doesn't know what that is that's complex PTSD when I became chronically ill she dropped me we haven't spoken in over five years but our mutual friend Lily stayed close with both of us now Lily's getting married and has asked us both to be bridesmaids I said yes but since then I've been having emotional flashbacks my chronic illness worsens with stress and I don't know how I'll cope being around Karen at the hen the wedding or even beforehand Lily says Karen's changed but for me the pain's still real I don't want to step down and let Karen take something else from me yeah I'm scared the stress will make me too ill to be there at all how do I navigate this these are the moments that make up a fruitful and enriched life you can't you can't pull out because of fear of someone's control or impact over you yeah time has moved on I'd imagine since since this whole friendship yeah and people can change I think it would be really unfair for you to look back at the photos and there are these beautiful bridesmaids photos with your best friend in the middle and you're not there.

47:29I also think that it's more dramatic by pulling out and making more of a scene, in which case I think that the whole wedding would be uncomfortable for you to be a guest anyway and that you probably wouldn't even want to go to the wedding. So I think you've got to try and just bury it. I mean, you know, I am saying this without understanding the full effects of your chronic illness. If you're ill anyway and you're having a flare-up, whatever that might look like there are there have been things that i've had to pull out of i remember i had to pull out of binky's hen do which i was gutted about and i missed her wedding which was in corfu when i but i mean i was in hospital and that was devastating for me but health does have to come first so if you do feel like you're in a position where it's going to significantly impact your health and then i would i would put that first your situation is quite different you weren't there because of someone's emotional input on you.

48:22No I'm just saying that obviously if it's going to cause her such significant health impacts then of course pull out. And your friend will always understand that. Because she has said that the stress is causing her to be ill. Stress is the biggest killer. Nah she's got to go. You can't live with what ifs and you can't run the risk of letting someone control your own outcomes. Which if you were invite if you asked to be a best man and someone that you really didn't like was also asked to be a best man what would you do i'd orchestrate a conversation in the meetup way before the even happened and i'd be like let me just tell you how you would you yeah but no what is the person that say had like wronged you or actually caused you quite a lot of distress like they've been an arsehole to you and you don't want to let's say let's say alec for example 10 years ago i had a scuffle with him yeah if i had to do a job with him i'd get hold of him i'd be like let's clear the air before we do this okay because we we've been through something that doesn't feel great um let's what did he say at the time let's let bygones be bygones i'll be like let's address that let's get to a place where we feel at peace and we can move past it let me know how you made i'll let you know how you made me feel in that moment in time you can do the same and then we'll move forward you have to you have to meet these things head on you can't just go through life shying away and just like succumbing to people's control and level of level of authority or perceived control over you she's got to meet that head on she's got to meet this person she'll she'll feel so much lighter and healthier and happier if she does that okay she'll feel proud of herself yeah also weddings are so great and massive like put the magic goggles on find someone else in the wedding party and go agreed how much how much like how much time do you have to spend with the bridesmaids just at the old just at the well i don't know i see because i'm not part of their plans but no sometimes people get really into it it's like broad trips for hen do's with fucking pinterest board after pinterest board and dress codes and planning games and and dress fittings and all that sort of stuff but i think i think you just speak to your friend and say this is what i would like to commit to because i really love and care about you i'm going to try and make it with this up make it work with this other girl um yeah it's gonna be a grown-up isn't that's straight out of Bridesmaids the movie isn't it there's two that get picked and oh yeah oh yeah watch the film maybe watch the film I mean I think there's a reason why I've never been asked to be a bridesmaid what would that reason be I just don't love like getting caught up and all that stuff you wouldn't be happy to read a passage at the church would you well they don't have to do that they do well every wedding I've been to there's been a bridesmaid and a groomsman that offers a reading oh really yes anyway that's my thoughts on it Thank you guys so much for listening this week.

51:08We've really enjoyed this conversation. I hope you guys have to go and check out the book. Don't believe everything you think it is. It's a goodie. If you're looking for some new reading material, remember all you need is a bit of space and a bit of time and to put your magic goggles on. Yes. Practice it. Just let us know how you get on. Everyone's lying. Everyone's bullshitting. Everyone's got goggles on. Like, no, the real, when you know you've made it in life is when you've learned how to put the goggles on. What? Yeah. Don't forget to like and subscribe. And we'll see you on Monday for our AUA episode.

51:43Ask us anything. See you then.

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