What our 4-year-old REALLY thinks of us...

0:004-year-old: Mom, I saw Dylan's dad make dinner, like actually cook, and it was straight fire. He said it was Blue Apron assemble and bake. All the ingredients showed up pre-chopped, and he just laid it out on a baking sheet and no cap. Dinner was on the table in like 25 minutes. Apparently, it's chef design, and it has like over 40 grams of protein. That's a lot, right? So maybe we try it. Just saying. You can be the next Dylan's dad. Blue Apron. Get$50 off your first two orders, plus free shipping with code STIR50. Terms and conditions apply. Visit blueabron.com slash terms for more. This weekend is Mother's Day, so we've got a bit of a special episode.

0:354-year-old: We're going to deep dive into our relationships with our mums, the evolution of that. You almost been brought up as an only child. Yeah, fair to say. Your parents have actually just been staying with us.

0:45He Said, She Said Hosts: They have.

0:474-year-old: But before we get into all of that stuff, I wanted to talk about the train home from Scotland.

0:56He Said, She Said Hosts: that shouldn't be the bit that stays in our minds from that weekend but it does it does i've never seen you so angry like genuinely like i i actually thought that you were going to explode

1:084-year-old: so there was a guy sat next to us on the train that was coughing every five minutes and you i i thought you were gonna punch him yeah it's nearly five hours on the train

1:25He Said, She Said Hosts: it wasn't particularly busy so there's there's other there's other seats available in the carriage and this guy it wasn't even five minutes i feel like it was every two minutes and there was no real effort to like try and like remedy it there was no like oh i'm really sorry i'll excuse myself and go to the sort of vestibule area and just get out my system there was no i'll go and try and get some coffee sweets from the the key yeah yeah yeah

1:484-year-old: it was actually disgusting and i was like to be fair i think i'm just better at like hiding my emotions in that scenario but coughing on a train is socially unacceptable do you know what's funny you just said that he coughed every two minutes the moment that you moved and or like went to the loo or left the carriage the coughing actually stopped i think he was doing it to fuck you off

2:06He Said, She Said Hosts: no way yeah you know when you know when people like look up and they try and stretch because it's like a tickly cough so they like look up and they're like like this and i was like are you trying to force this or are you just responding to like that's what i mean i think he was forcing

2:204-year-old: it to annoy you because at the beginning i think that he saw that you were annoyed they this couple were probably in their 60s they were playing cards and i thought that they looked at the kinds of people that we might end up having a nice conversation with there was something that had happened in their life that made them very very unhappy and they hated us and they hated the fact that we had a four-year-old and this guy was forcing out the coughs okay if that was us and you were coughing like that i would boot you down to the cafe car and say get a swig of

2:52He Said, She Said Hosts: water i had to move seats and put headphones on and sort of signal to you to be like we need to take this in turns i'll take leo for 30 minutes then you take him yeah because i'm i'm on the

3:024-year-old: ropes i think i'm a little bit more patient than you in that scenario in that there are other things that I think are revolting like when people eat a full stop when travelling

3:13He Said, She Said Hosts: I'll tell you what my absolute pet peeve is in public in fact just in general you know when people go and they like they sniff but they're trying like rather than blow their nose like a normal polite person they go

3:254-year-old: oh my god

3:26He Said, She Said Hosts: I hate it

3:284-year-old: when they're like swallowing their phlegm

3:30He Said, She Said Hosts: yeah but you know what I'm talking about right I hate it more than any More than the coughing dude on the train.

3:364-year-old: Like, what does it make you feel inside? You're actually clenching your fists right now. I'm scared.

3:40He Said, She Said Hosts: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I just think that's so, like, inconsiderate to people around you.

3:454-year-old: Yeah. I think that opening a bag of, like, Quavers on a train or on the tube is pretty rank. Or, like, someone eating a sloppy sandwich, like a tuna. What's a sloppy sandwich? Actually, just sandwiches. You know I hate sandwiches anyway.

3:59He Said, She Said Hosts: The way you say sandwiches is quite unique. Sandwich.

4:034-year-old: Really?

4:03He Said, She Said Hosts: Yeah.

4:034-year-old: I used to watch a show called Ladies of London. And one of the ladies was married to the Earl of Sandwich. And I just thought that was such an epic title. But I think Sandwich is down by the coast. Dorset, maybe?

4:15He Said, She Said Hosts: What's your worst kind of sandwich? I know the answer. Egg mayonnaise. Because you've got a mayonnaise thing.

4:214-year-old: I've never tried mayonnaise in my life. Can't get my head around it. Is that really weird? It just looks like...

4:29He Said, She Said Hosts: Don't say it.

4:304-year-old: It's not like something that should be eaten. And egg as well, mushed up, gross. Also tuna.

4:39He Said, She Said Hosts: You wouldn't have lasted long in my meeting yesterday. In the middle, we had a plate of sandwiches. Egg, mayo, tuna, salmon and cheese you like, and chicken. But yeah, sandwiches, not for you. No, not for me. I've never seen you eat a sandwich.

4:524-year-old: Occasionally, I smoke salmon and cream cheese bagel. That's the limit.

4:57He Said, She Said Hosts: Yeah, but that was a particularly difficult ride home, I must say.

5:004-year-old: I think always traveling back from any trip with a child is quite challenging. Definitely, yeah. Like I'm already worried about traveling back from our trip to Antigua. This morning was interesting. So Leo's coming to join us later in the episode as a cute little surprise to celebrate Mother's Day. So we drove him here to the studio and he needed a wee in the car.

5:26He Said, She Said Hosts: Standard.

5:274-year-old: Is that standard?

5:28He Said, She Said Hosts: I feel like it happens a lot with Leo, yeah.

5:314-year-old: So we had, I had to climb into the back seat and basically empty a water bottle out of the window, the entire thing. So people behind us must have been thinking, what's going on there? Like, what is this like poisonous liquid they're throwing out of the window? And then get the little, take the lid off and then get his schnitzel into the bottle so that he could do away. Actually, I think I left it in the car. Did you? Yeah. That's great. which I guess is quite convenient. It's definitely one of the perks of being a boy is that your wee organs... Sit outside? Sit outside your body. So in an emergency, you can just wee into a bottle or like wee out of the window.

6:154-year-old: Whereas a girl, you can't do that. Well, if you've had to. Have you ever done that?

6:20He Said, She Said Hosts: No.

6:214-year-old: Where's the weirdest place that you've ever weed?

6:23He Said, She Said Hosts: Oh my gosh. I've no idea. I don't know.

6:284-year-old: Like anywhere. You can just wee anywhere. Yeah, we can make it happen anywhere. In fact, you always wee in weird places. Well, tell me what's weird. Well, we'll be out and about and you'll need a wee and you just wee in public. I feel like you've done that before. Well, definitely when we're in the park.

6:47He Said, She Said Hosts: Have I?

6:494-year-old: Yeah.

6:50He Said, She Said Hosts: We're talking like Richmond Park?

6:514-year-old: Yes.

6:52He Said, She Said Hosts: Fine. That's not weird in my mind. That's like game on. That's open woods.

6:554-year-old: When I was on my gap year, I went to Bolivia, Peru, Brazil. What green rooms? Yeah, it wasn't in that order. And I went to this big, like, rainforest-y place. What's the big river in the Amazon? The Amazon rainforest? That's the one on my God. Yeah, it's been a while. And we had to stay, we basically stayed in the middle of nowhere. It was like in the middle, we had to, we were rowing in the water for two hours to get to this stilted campsite.

7:30He Said, She Said Hosts: Wow. Questions, do you see any anacondas?

7:324-year-old: No snakes, but loads of crocodiles. Oh my God. And then we climbed up these little like stilted platforms. Ladder things? Ladder things. And then we had to stay the night there for three nights. Wow. And there was no like camp or base, it was like a hotel. And I needed the loo in the middle of the night.

7:52He Said, She Said Hosts: And what did you have to do? Just, oh, you just shuffled your bum off the top.

7:554-year-old: I shuffled my bum off the top, but I actually needed to do that.

7:58He Said, She Said Hosts: You dropped, oh, you dropped bombs from the top. And I could, but basically because I couldn't,

8:054-year-old: in the middle of the night in pitch black, I couldn't come down three flights of stairs to walk along this platform to go to the loo because I was worried I'd fall in and there were crocodiles everywhere. So I had to just hang my bum off the edge and I got so many mosquito bites on my bum. It was actually disgusting. And the worst thing is, it's like, it didn't even make it into the water.

8:25He Said, She Said Hosts: Oh.

8:254-year-old: So it landed on the platform below, outside someone else's bedroom. What? Louise, what the hell? Isn't that so rough?

8:35He Said, She Said Hosts: That is like the most awful prank I've ever heard. It wasn't a prank though. You took a shit off the top deck and it landed outside their front door. Oh my God.

8:444-year-old: It'd be easier now I've got Winnie because I could just like lean over something. It's like a bit easier to control. What happened the next day? What happened the next day?

8:53He Said, She Said Hosts: I need to know what happened the next day.

8:544-year-old: To be honest, the whole experience was so hellish. I just couldn't give a shit about anything that anyone had to say on that trip. I wanted to get out of there.

9:01He Said, She Said Hosts: I am stunned by that story.

9:024-year-old: It was so unglamorous. Do you remember actually once I had to empty Winnie on the way back from a long motorway? Like a long journey. And you had to stop in the middle of the motorway and it was just unload.

9:15He Said, She Said Hosts: Yes.

9:154-year-old: Yeah, not that glamorous.

9:18He Said, She Said Hosts: Anyway, moving on. Thompson's don't mind pood chat.

9:214-year-old: But I wouldn't like wee in the car. There is such a thing as a she-wee, which is like a funnel that people take to festivals.

9:28He Said, She Said Hosts: Oh, no, you actually, there was a time not long ago where you wanted one of these for the car.

9:324-year-old: Yeah, I said, I actually suggested ordering a she-wee for the car for all of our long journeys, and Ryan was, like, repulsed.

9:39He Said, She Said Hosts: Rather than store something like that in the car, I'll happily just pull over. Yeah, I'd rather that option. But wait, why would it be so rank to have a she-wee stored in the car? Well, how big is this apparatus?

9:504-year-old: I actually don't know. Alphabotus.

9:53He Said, She Said Hosts: Not as big as I thought, but to be fair, once you use it, you've then got to go through the cleaning and sterilising of it all.

9:594-year-old: I don't think you really need to do that, do you? That's also disgusting.

10:04He Said, She Said Hosts: That's a bit different than having a bottle of pee concealed. How is that any different? What I've just seen there is a funnel where you put it up against the woo-woo and then you shoot it down the slide.

10:164-year-old: Yeah, and actually, where are you putting that? Out the window.

10:19He Said, She Said Hosts: that's another good point what's that funnel going into

10:224-year-old: I don't know we're not getting a shiri

10:24He Said, She Said Hosts: I'll just pull over

10:244-year-old: can I make a suggestion for when we go on our next trip yes please can we take a pram

10:30He Said, She Said Hosts: I keep getting this wrong so yes

10:324-year-old: I think that this is definitely something that will divide most parents to take a pram or not to take a pram a pram is the best invention known to mankind it is a handbag on wheels it is a dumping ground and also whenever anyone gets sore and tired legs you can sit in it. It's a chair. Yes, we have a four-year-old. There will be people that will be thinking that is disgraceful that your old child still needs to sit in a pram. Like people are quite judgmental about that kind of thing.

11:00He Said, She Said Hosts: I think that's where my resistance comes from. I think I'm trying to like encourage him off the pram a little bit. I want to see him on his scooter and his bicycle. Because when he does that he has the best time.

11:124-year-old: But it is a bit ridiculous that he'll just pretend that his legs are like broken after 10 minutes of walking. So dramatic. So my legs are not working.

11:20He Said, She Said Hosts: I love seeing him scoot around the train station in Edinburgh when we arrived. I thought that was, that was actually one of the highlights for me, seeing him do that.

11:274-year-old: But then you are the one that has to carry him on your shoulders for three hours.

11:33He Said, She Said Hosts: Yeah, around the castle.

11:344-year-old: Walking around a city in the Edinburgh castle. Yeah. Which actually stopped us from being able to do anything. And then we spent most of the day in a Lego shop.

11:43He Said, She Said Hosts: My parents actually said something very similar just yesterday or the day before. because they asked me the question before they went out for their mini adventure. They said, should we take the pram? And I was like, nah, I think you'll be fine. You obviously intervened and said, no, take the pram because you'll be out all day and you'll be on and off the boats and you'll be going to the palace and whatever else. They got back. They look quite disheveled. They were knackered and they were like, thank God we took the pram.

12:084-year-old: Also, we don't have any curtains in the room that this day.

12:12He Said, She Said Hosts: No, I know.

12:124-year-old: So they never sleep, but I've never seen them look so shit.

12:16He Said, She Said Hosts: This is the room, by the way, that I have been sleeping in for months. However, past four nights, we've been in bed together. We actually have.

12:234-year-old: I feel like they probably think that we've not put curtains in there so that they can't stay.

12:30He Said, She Said Hosts: No, definitely not, man. This is you and your weird narrative. We should just get some curtains in there. Because this week is particularly busy, you probably think, oh, they're not really on it with the parenting. They seem to be all over the place. They don't think that at all.

12:474-year-old: Oh, what? Yeah, I'm feeling paranoid that they'll think that we're shit parents because I've got a gazillion obligations this week.

12:55He Said, She Said Hosts: My parents are the sorts of people, right, who will come in, they'll see what's happening and they'll be like, we'll take over. You do your thing. But Louise doesn't quite understand that. So she's like, do they think that we're just like really neglecting our duty as parents? It's not that. It's like a baton exchange. They're like, we got it for these few days and then we'll pass it back. And that's what happened this morning. They were like, you better take this again. Because they're knuckered.

13:174-year-old: Quite thrilled that you're back in the bed with us. So I actually read a study last week that found that if you sleep with one foot out of the bed, you sleep harder and faster.

13:28He Said, She Said Hosts: I'm a believer in that.

13:304-year-old: I'm a believer in that as well. Always got to have like one little leg tucked out.

13:36He Said, She Said Hosts: What's your like optimum sleeping position? I can't think. Where do you usually like find yourself? Are you a side sleeper?

13:434-year-old: I like to hug a fake person, like a, yeah, like a, I'm sort of like humping a pillow.

13:49He Said, She Said Hosts: Yeah. You've got like stuff in between your legs. And one leg on top outside. I'm always going to have stuff in between my legs.

13:524-year-old: Ever since I gave birth.

13:54He Said, She Said Hosts: Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

13:554-year-old: I think it's like good for separating the hips. I sound like a 70 year old voice. Wrong with me. There's been a few nights where you're face down. But it has to be a cold pillow.

14:02He Said, She Said Hosts: And the hair is just like, so like, I don't even know what the word is, but it looks like you've just like died in the bed. It's just. What face down?

14:114-year-old: I never sleep face down.

14:12He Said, She Said Hosts: I know there are sometimes where I see you face down, just in a mass of pillows. I'm like...

14:164-year-old: Even Leo's quite fussy now, to the point where he'll be like, sit up, I need to flip over my pillow because he only likes the cold size. In the nighttime he does that. Yeah, I know. He's like constantly on pillow rotation.

14:27He Said, She Said Hosts: I know, it's so funny when he does that.

14:294-year-old: Isn't that crazy? I find it so cute.

14:32He Said, She Said Hosts: I'm sort of half asleep and I see it happening. I'm like, I've got to get up and give him a kiss because I think that's so cute.

14:374-year-old: Actually, what would you do if someone broke in the house?

14:41He Said, She Said Hosts: I would have been like, are we doing this? Because I've got nothing on. No, do you know what? My default would just be to charge straight away.

14:494-year-old: Was it? Yeah, like a rhino. So if, okay, so say - Just imagine how it starts on - You hear some rustling, because we live on quite a busy road and there's like a lot of stuff that goes on, especially on a weekend. And sometimes I think, oh my God, like there are drunk people hanging out on the wall outside. I like worry about people trying to break in. What would you do?

15:09He Said, She Said Hosts: That's why I got the door reinforced.

15:114-year-old: You'll actually quite often get up and just like peer out of the window naked. Enough to scare anyone off. So if someone had managed to break in, your initial instinct would be to sprint at them and just push them.

15:28He Said, She Said Hosts: I've thought about this so many times.

15:304-year-old: Just like push them like this. Honestly, I've gone through this so many times.

15:33He Said, She Said Hosts: I'm like, am I better off going with like a stealth attack and creeping around the house? or am I better just going for a fully like, like charging at them with noise. And I'm going with that one. Because imagine that, imagine in the dark of night and then you, imagine you're an intruder in our house, right? And you think you're getting away with it. And then out of nowhere, this fucking thing, naked runs at you screaming. I think you're on the back foot.

15:584-year-old: Well, my mate Lydia, who got broken into, she screamed and charged with three men that were trying to break into her house. And I was like, That is so brave. You know, I would run upstairs. I'd grab Leo. I'd grab Puffalump. And I would hide. There's no time to grab Puffalump. I would try and climb into our storage loft.

16:21He Said, She Said Hosts: That's not a five second job, any of what you just said.

16:254-year-old: Actually, the problem with that is then there's no way out. So like if they come up there, we are game over. What's quite nice is having you back in the bed is you're actually letting me touch you. again.

16:35He Said, She Said Hosts: Oh, you're... You mean when you nestle in on my chest?

16:404-year-old: Yeah, like the last few nights I've like nestled in. So I'm like, because we sleep facing opposite directions and we're right at the other side of the bed and we've got like an emperor bed.

16:49He Said, She Said Hosts: With Leo in the middle.

16:504-year-old: With Leo in the middle, it's not very sexy. But I've had to ask you whether I can lie inside

16:59He Said, She Said Hosts: your arm

17:004-year-old: the last few nights.

17:01He Said, She Said Hosts: I know. It's like some sort of like regulation

17:044-year-old: tactic from you're like a little it's comforting so ryan will open up his arm and i'm allowed to lie like on his left peck and i lie there for a few minutes and then i'm instantly asleep and to be honest i kind of have to force you to allow me to do that you have a thing where you get freaked out if you can feel someone else's heartbeat on you no not someone else's i feel like with your head on my chest, it makes me more aware of my pulse.

17:33He Said, She Said Hosts: And then the thought of you listening to my heartbeat makes me panic. It's like having blood pressure taken.

17:384-year-old: I'm like, I feel like we used to spoon a lot more. We used to have a thing. Do you remember our thing? You don't know our thing? It's quite exposing.

17:48He Said, She Said Hosts: Oh my God. Bum to bum. Oh yeah. No, that's the nicest thing in the world. Naked butt cheeks.

17:544-year-old: So we used to have a thing. it would be like we'd just lie yeah we'd like we'd probably like cuddle a bit and then we'd be like okay it's like it's kind of like ready for bed so let's turn the opposite way because we don't want to be breathing on each other you can't say tarot you cannot say tarot on the podcast I can but we'd rotate because you don't want to be breathing on each other when you go to sleep because that's gross and then and then you'd be like let's do bum to bum I love it touching bum cheeks that sounds so rank people are going to be repulsed by us because you like like a cold bum on your bum yeah and you're i've got your horrible hairy bum and my nice bum oh sorry about that yeah

18:38He Said, She Said Hosts: you hate people slapping your bum i've got sensitive to us yeah like i think it's quite

18:434-year-old: like funny just to like go around slapping your bum yeah actually actually throughout the day and

18:47He Said, She Said Hosts: you'll be like oh yeah leo does it i'm like dude that actually hurts but why does it hurt i don't No, but back to the bum on bum. I like it when your bum's in my lower back.

18:564-year-old: Oh, okay. We can try doing that again. That's like sensory heaven for me. Do we ever fall out when it comes to sleeping?

19:01He Said, She Said Hosts: We've had some arguments in the bed. It's because you went through a phase of working until 12, 30, 1am. And there was a time probably more so before Leo when I used to really focus on getting good sleep. Getting sleep as a parent is one of those things you have to let go of, unfortunately. It's just the reality of it. but when you would i would i would actually take offense to it i'd be like you're messing with my

19:254-year-old: sleep here dude yeah you get quite annoyed because it's not just it's not just like you're it's not

19:30He Said, She Said Hosts: it's not like you're propped up in bed using your flashlight from your phone to like illuminate you're doing it all cute side lamps on you're guzzling water probably a snack in there and you're bashing the keys and i'm and i'm like come on is that not quite soothing though completely

19:464-year-old: I quite like falling asleep while you're awake doing other stuff. I find it comforting. I like to be the person that falls asleep first.

19:54He Said, She Said Hosts: Yeah, but.

19:554-year-old: So I like you to be awake just like doing stuff.

20:00He Said, She Said Hosts: That's such a sound comment, by the way. I like to be asleep first.

20:034-year-old: Is it? It's really selfish. Yeah.

20:06He Said, She Said Hosts: But you're so lucky with the whole sleep thing because you can fall asleep like that.

20:104-year-old: Yeah.

20:10He Said, She Said Hosts: So like in your mind, as soon as you're done with your little whatever, you'll close the lid and boom. gone yeah it's amazing it's mother's day louise this weekend do you feel do you feel good about mother's day do you feel good about the celebration of i like mother's day yeah good i think like

20:294-year-old: unlike say something like my birthday mother's day is a universal celebration so it spreads out the affection and and also i feel like it's a celebration of achievement like being a mother is hard work and it's nice to be recognized for that it's it's like a yearly celebration that you and your child are you know still doing a good job still doing a good job yeah yeah I like that birthday's a bit more generic isn't it yeah it's like why why do I deserve to get treated especially because I was born on a certain day well I know what you mean do you so are you saying that

21:09He Said, She Said Hosts: there's a little bit less hype and less pressure around it and it's more like we're going to focus focusing on you as a mum and like the great stuff you're doing with your child.

21:184-year-old: Yeah. I also just think it's like quite fun. Great. Yeah. And. Hang on.

21:25He Said, She Said Hosts: What the hell's happening? A celebration that Louise likes?

21:284-year-old: Yeah. I think cause I know that like everyone else in like all of the houses around me are all, you know, everyone's like doing the same thing.

21:35He Said, She Said Hosts: Ah, safety in numbers.

21:374-year-old: It's the safety in numbers. It's like. This makes sense. It's like less of the attention on me. You're so consistent with this.

21:41He Said, She Said Hosts: the more you give me from this like conversation the more it really fits together like everyone's out there buying a card for everybody and it's not just you and even when it's something like

21:514-year-old: something as simple as like an instagram post it's like well there's just like mother's day

21:55He Said, She Said Hosts: chitter chatter everywhere yeah louise doesn't really like her birthday celebrations i think over the years we've i've struggled with finding out what really lands well with you i know i'm really excited for this year oh the pressure be building there no but mother's day mother's day is good that's good to know do you like mother's day i do i do i think it's a really well-deserved day to celebrate mums because mums do so much all mums do so much for families yeah thank you what are we gonna do then well i think it's really on i think it's on you or it's on the mums to be like you know what because it might be it might be the thing where i wouldn't take offense if you're like you know what 364 days of the year we're we're at home and we're doing the thing as a unit as a family today i'm gonna take a day for me okay cool that'd be cool in my book

22:514-year-old: maybe we should do that we've never done that before no why are you saying we it's you maybe i should do that correct correct yeah do you want to do that what so i could wake up and then just be on my own all day.

23:04He Said, She Said Hosts: Well, you could wake up and be like, do you know what? I'm going to go for a walk across to that sound bath place and I'm going to do one of those gong things on the back. I'm obsessed with the gong bath. Get the whole vibrations going. The gong girl. And then you might decide to go for lunch and then you might go for a, I don't know. A solo lunch. Tell me what you're doing. Oh my God,

23:214-year-old: that would be so depressing but actually ideal.

23:23He Said, She Said Hosts: You, I feel like you'd quite like a solo lunch.

23:264-year-old: Yeah, when I was at uni I used to go for solo lunches on my own. Do you know what's funny? Like I would go to a restaurant and I, do you read as well, G? Love that. What, a solo? Solo lunch. And I'd pay to go to a restaurant with my little amount of money. And then I'd think, oh, I wonder if people think I'm like a food critic because I'm eating on my own.

23:46He Said, She Said Hosts: I had a solo lunch yesterday in Compton Garden and hated it. Hated it. Well, tell me what you want to do for Mother's Day.

23:514-year-old: I think like my dream scenario would be, no, I'd like to obviously be together. Like I want to spend it with my son. And... Not me. No, no, I'm with you as well. you is good no because you're actually quite critical what could be quite cool is just if i could have like a veto card so throughout the whole day we do things nice things but then if there's something i don't want to do i just pull out a card great idea so in fact actually i think i'd quite like to just permanently have a veto card in my pocket so what would you use it though would you use it okay well like oh or also just like an order card so there's a veto card if i want to do something and then there's just like a you have to do this if I ask you so I like clean the kitchen in the morning before I come down yeah well I've I've cottoned on to that one months I know but you actually don't do it wait separate podcast episode but Ryan wakes up at 4am and I'll come down at 6 and like he's not moved anything in the house like I don't know how you I'm trying to be quiet.

24:554-year-old: No, but don't be quiet. Be noisy.

24:58He Said, She Said Hosts: No, but it's not just you. It's about Leo and also me. Leo doesn't mind. I don't want the sound of like loading dishes at 4.50am.

25:054-year-old: Okay, well, on Mother's Day, please, can you make some noise? Fine. In fact, I want to be upstairs, like lying in bed, hearing the noise. That's my dream.

25:14He Said, She Said Hosts: But then you'll think it's your dad like downstairs, because that's the sort of thing he would do. Well, you like what you know. No, but that's just not my style. But all right, all right. I'll do it on Mother's Day. Okay, do it on Mother's Day. I'm going to make so much noise.

25:264-year-old: Make a lot of noise. Like a whole house, just like immaculate, like Monica from Friends vibes. Garden swept, dog poo scoops.

25:35He Said, She Said Hosts: I do that anyway.

25:374-year-old: Yeah, so you are quite good with the garden. Bins taken out. Lou Rolls replenished the house. Just like whole house. Lou Rolls replenished. Phenomenal. Like picture frames untilted. Boiled eggs being boiled. Like a perfect, okay, tablecloth, like full breakfast. Everything made.

25:56He Said, She Said Hosts: This is quite the day.

25:584-year-old: Well, that's what mothers do. I'm up at 4am starting the house jewels. Yeah, that's what instead of jumping on a bike for now, that's what mothers do. All of that stuff. Every morning. Leo bathed, breakfast clothed in a cool outfit. Good luck with that. Good luck with that battle. Because he ain't getting out of that bloody jumper, that yellow one that he's wearing today, which you guys will see later that your parents bought him. I'd like to go camping. That's my perfect little Mother's Day.

26:33He Said, She Said Hosts: Do you remember your first Mother's Day? Or did we have to draw a blank on that one?

26:414-year-old: I don't remember it at all. I think the first Mother's Day was robbed from us, really.

26:46He Said, She Said Hosts: Yeah. Yeah.

26:484-year-old: Yeah, we weren't really alive and kicking until about six months postpartum.

26:53He Said, She Said Hosts: Well, he would have been four months old at that point.

26:564-year-old: Yeah, November, December, January, February, March, like three to four months. In fact, that was probably like peak mental unwellness. Things that got really out of hand that February. But Mother's Day, I don't know what we would have done. Like, I think probably just tried to survive.

27:10He Said, She Said Hosts: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gosh. What about your mum? What are you going to do for your mum this Mother's Day?

27:174-year-old: That's actually a really good point. I think when you become a mum yourself, you focus on your own little family unit and you start to slowly forget about your own parents. Oh, you know what? Actually, one year I got her a really expensive necklace that's got like a little - She loves that. She loves that. It's like a little case.

27:39He Said, She Said Hosts: Is it the circular one with like the sort of -

27:414-year-old: Circular little case with glass. And where's it from? It's called Locket. It's stunning actually. and you can buy charms. Oh my God, thank you for reminding me. I need to go and bloody order this today, next day delivery. So every year, like I'll get something, a new little thing to add in there.

27:59He Said, She Said Hosts: Let me ask you a question somewhat linked to your mum. I'm interested to know if you went through a sort of any shift in perspective when you became a mum. Did you see your mum through a different lens? Because if and when you asked me that question, I have an answer for that.

28:214-year-old: I, yeah, totally.

28:23He Said, She Said Hosts: Tell me about it.

28:254-year-old: When I became a mom, I started actually respecting my parents for the first time ever. Big. I think I took them for granted massively before. Big. I never really appreciated anything that they'd done for us, any of the sacrifices they made. And certainly none of the in-between moments meant much. every single car journey, every single time they'd come to a sports match, every meal. I remember even having the nerve to judge my mum for giving us chicken nuggets and chips. Because I thought that that was really bad and like really lazy. And I genuinely was like, how could she do that? Like that's neglectful as a parent to give us food that's not healthy.

29:114-year-old: And now there are times when Leo

29:13He Said, She Said Hosts: No, he's aged four, rejecting some chicken nuggets.

29:154-year-old: No, no, no. This is like more, it was more like as a teenager or in my twenties, looking back, I thought, oh my God, like they used to give us microwavable meals sometimes. But there are times, I know, and isn't that so judgy? But there are times now where I'll give Leo a block of cheese and cucumber for dinner.

29:384-year-old: So climbing right back into my box. Interesting. I think it's one, you know, what we've failed to think about is the fact that our parents are living their lives for the first time too. Every day is a new day. Like they've never been 64 and 76 until now. They were never parents until they were parents. yeah um they're learning and there's no playbook for being a parent there's really like no one you know it's not something that you're educated on at school you don't learn you don't have like mummy and daddy classes no i guess ncts are like a pathetic excuse for a mummy and daddy like learning how to be a mummy and daddy class no i think that's

30:25He Said, She Said Hosts: more of a we're going to teach you how to look after a newborn baby for the first six months or whatever. I don't think it goes really much beyond that, does it? At least, in fact, I don't know because I've never done an NCT class. Perhaps I should have done one.

30:384-year-old: I think actually it would have been good

30:40He Said, She Said Hosts: if you had done one.

30:424-year-old: Would recommend for any partners out there. Josh, I love you, Josh. He's expecting a baby. Go to the NCT classes. He's locked in. He's already locked in because he's such a good guy.

30:51He Said, She Said Hosts: Oh, apparently I'm not.

30:524-year-old: Yeah, but Ryan's a really good guy, but I don't know why. Like, how did that, where did we get that one so wrong?

30:58He Said, She Said Hosts: Listen, it turned out all right. I managed to get the nappy figured out and the swaddling on the first day so i don't think the birth bit went so

31:064-year-old: well for us uh well i don't think nct would have changed that sadly when you became a parent did

31:11He Said, She Said Hosts: it change your opinion of your parents parenting massively so much to your point of seeing it for the first time and really understanding the level of sacrifice and the concessions that they made at every turn. I think when you're, as you say, in your teenage years or early twenties, like you don't really see it. You don't really feel it. You say thank you, but maybe you're just going through the motions of it. But when you have a baby and you have a family of your own, you really feel a different kind of weight and you see it so, so differently. I actually felt it so heavily that I wrote a letter to my parents.

31:504-year-old: Did you?

31:51He Said, She Said Hosts: Within the first year of Leo. And it wasn't a letter about, you know, the sort of stuff that we were in at that time. It was a letter of thanks. I needed to like express my gratitude for everything they'd done. Because in that moment, I just became so aware of everything.

32:114-year-old: You never told me that you wrote them a letter.

32:13He Said, She Said Hosts: No, but ask my dad about it because he is still quite touched by that letter now.

32:194-year-old: I think about it all the time, the idea of writing my parents a letter and I should, well, separate letters because they're divorced.

32:26He Said, She Said Hosts: No, I think you did write your mum a letter at some point. I think to remember you did do this.

32:294-year-old: I actually think I, maybe I did. My memory is just so hazy that whole period because I tried to forget it because it was so rough.

32:36He Said, She Said Hosts: I don't know when you did it. I don't know if it was in that first year, but I have a memory of you writing a letter to your mum and it was really well received. In fact, I think she wrote one back.

32:454-year-old: God.

32:46He Said, She Said Hosts: You should really remember this.

32:474-year-old: I should remember that and I should dig it out. What did you write in your letter to your parents?

32:53He Said, She Said Hosts: Honestly, just different variations of the word thank you. It was a letter of gratitude. It was like, thank you for making... Well, to give you an example, my dad was in the army for 27 years. You don't get rich from a military career, but he somehow between... And my mum didn't work. She had the occasional job as a hairdresser and bits and bobs like that. but for the main sort of part, she was a sort of military housewife, stay at home mom. So on a single salary, my dad managed to make it work that three boys, me and my two brothers went through private school, public school, whatever you want to call it.

33:27He Said, She Said Hosts: That's not an easy thing on one salary, on a military salary. They must've sacrificed so much, like forget nice holidays and nice cars and beautiful homes and restaurants every other week or whatever it might look like. They would have let go of all of that and they've never once complained about it. My parents, as you'll know, they're so selfless in that regard. They just thought it's all about the boys. Let's give them the best opportunity. My dad, he grew up on a council estate. Like your dad. No, sorry. Definitely not.

33:594-year-old: No, but my dad's dad grew up on a council estate.

34:01He Said, She Said Hosts: Okay. So like, you know, they were very hungry to give us a better chance in life and they did do that. so I just felt like I needed to say thanks

34:114-year-old: I wonder isn't it mad to think that it takes for you to reach sort of the age of 35 well no actually we were 31 when we had Leo but 31 to have that level of appreciation

34:24He Said, She Said Hosts: I had no idea when we got my dad

34:274-year-old: on the podcast last week he said that he had a van and I remember he also had a Ford Fiesta and I just thought he did that because it was jokes or that he was trying to embarrass us which is absurd that I thought that, like how naive. And he said, oh yeah, times are tough. So he's making cutbacks and he needed to pay for expensive school fees. And you just never even think about that side of things when you grow up. And I guess that's, you know, the sign of being a good parent is that you shelter your children from any hardships. And even when my parents actually got divorced, they never said, they never said the reason why.

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36:164-year-old: they were like we'll tell you about this when you're old enough to understand properly and like I don't really mind if that conversation never happens because I don't want to

36:24He Said, She Said Hosts: as in it still hasn't happened

36:254-year-old: it still hasn't happened so I guess for a lot of people that would feel maybe like unnerving and they would question whether there had been adultery or you know there would be this willingness to learn

36:424-year-old: but for me I love and respect my parents so much now that I don't really want to know anything more I don't need to know you don't need to I think the way that they handled that

36:52He Said, She Said Hosts: was so brilliant you're aware of the the way in which your parents handled that situation which was ultimately from a place of protection for you and Sam. And they handled it so well that you've never once seen any, any sort of dosage of disrespect to either your mum or dad, which is incredible.

37:144-year-old: Yeah.

37:14He Said, She Said Hosts: I also have had the same observation. Have you? Yeah. As in like your dad will always ask politely about your mum. And if there's ever any sort of like sniping comments or nothing with any malice at all, but if there's any like, Oh, who's your favourite? like child or he's very quick to be like, no, let's not go there. Your mum's, you know.

37:374-year-old: Oh, even when he came on the podcast and we, and I jokingly asked like who was the favourite? And then I said that mummy had a favourite. I like think, yeah, thinking it would be Sam. He was like, no, don't be ridiculous. I'm not even entertaining this conversation, which is, yeah, is, is, is brilliant. Such a good treat. I like that. I think this is quite a nice moment to recognise that parents do deserve a lot more credit than they are given when they're in the thick of it totally and in the early years and then the teenage years and then the 20 years and then maybe their kids might have grandkids

38:06He Said, She Said Hosts: yeah but we should also celebrate you right now because it's mother's day so we should we should acknowledge and make sure that you really feel seen as well when i say we i mean me and leo and hopefully other mums who are listening to this will will maybe i don't know feel a little bit more seen.

38:244-year-old: I think there is an invisible load as a mother, but I shouldn't just speak for mothers because fathers, we like to parent equally in this household. There's a never ending list of things that sit rent free in my head that I need to do to make sure that that boy is well taken care of and lives a good life. And it's all the like tiny little mundane things like organizing birthday presents for his friends. And that is every week, taking him to medical appointments, like checking his ears in the morning, like clipping the nails. I don't know how some people have four or five kids. That's like 30, 40 sets of like nails.

39:074-year-old: That's like, that's a rotation of nail clippings. It's like fingers, toenails and fingernails, brushing the teeth twice a day like updating his clothing to make sure that you know like the laundry and the smocks and it's only going to get more hectic because he's going to go to school and then have uniform and then he'll have like sports kit and summer uniform and winter uniform um planning oh I don't know

39:32He Said, She Said Hosts: no these are really good examples because as you're saying it I'm like oh my god these are actually really more important pieces of the puzzle than I even realised like the smock for example I see the smock is like oh don't worry dude we'll just borrow one from there you're like no and you'll race up to the top of the house you'll get one or two you'll pop them in the bag i'm not very good at stuff like that because i'm i just think there's a workaround but you're so diligent and stuff like that same with the nails i've never once clipped his nails that's all you you've got the little

40:004-year-old: oh like the toothbrush timer so that we can do the toothbrush yeah and you've made that fun which

40:04He Said, She Said Hosts: is great so like now age four when i ask him to brush his teeth like this morning he's like he knows what to do. You still kind of like take some shortcuts with it, but I'm like, you've kind of got it. That's all you. That's great. What else do you do?

40:174-year-old: It's like having a snack box, like a little like packed bag every day, like every time there's an outing. So when we, when we go on holiday or just even on the weekend, it's like always got to have water, always got to have wipes, always got to have like three emergency snacks just to space out the tantrums. No, there's always traveling with toys, a sticker book. Every time we go to a restaurant, got to have like a book like three different distractions i'll tell you what you do consistently

40:42He Said, She Said Hosts: very well which i think is really impressive because i i'm not consistent in this way but if you've had a good or a bad night's sleep if you've woken up feeling great or shit leo never knows the difference because you always make him feel like super excited about school and nursery and like it's friday this weekend we're going away to basse zoo or whatever it is you're very good at starting or setting the tone for his day on a daily basis which again it takes for me to talk about that to realize how important that is because if if well if it was down to me and i was doing it every day there'd be some mornings where i'd be a little bit maybe i don't know grumpy or just not not with the same lust for life and the animation and excitement that you bring

41:324-year-old: yeah which i think is really great thank you and you make the cute effort with the sort of

41:38He Said, She Said Hosts: dicing up the banana and the the oranges in his bowl and his yogurt pots there so when he comes down to the kitchen he's got like the visual cue of oh it's breakfast time there's a little placemat stuff like that is i think is really well i'll tell you what if you if you if you thought until now that i hadn't seen it i'm letting you know now i've seen it. And I think it's great.

42:024-year-old: I think the morning routine is so important for anyone to have like things that make you feel good. Like the way you start the day is sets the precedent for the rest of the day. And I noticed the difference between how his morning affects the rest of his day. And I'd certainly noticed that for myself. Like it's so important to make the bed, to brush your teeth, to have a good breakfast of something that's colorful, to have a little dance. And I do start the day with so much vim and vigor because I want to set like a really positive tone. And so even if I am really strapped on like days, much like I guess this week, I'll always make the extra time to, I'll find the time to do those special things.

42:514-year-old: I never want to get to a stage where I cut that out. I even actually, I had a moment yesterday and I haven't thought like this in a really long time where I did feel guilty.

43:03He Said, She Said Hosts: The mum guilt.

43:044-year-old: The mum guilt. People talk about it all the time. I don't feel it that often. And I don't know if that makes me a bad person, but it sets me apart from maybe other mums. I do work really hard. Our son is at nursery five days a week. We have a really good balance. And then, so when I work hard, he works hard. when we come together in the beginning of the day or at the end of the day, it is all about us and having the best time and giving each other so much energy. Um, I know that obviously I need to do things for myself in order to be the best parent to him. So, and for that reason, I don't feel guilty about working and then doing things with you and friends to fill up my cup.

43:484-year-old: But I did feel sad when I was out all day yesterday at the idea of, I think it was like Louisa, a couple of the girls that I work with, they were asking about, um, Leo's adventure to Buckingham Palace with your parents and that he dressed up as Paddington. Um, and I just like visualized him outside Buckingham Palace, like waving the flag. And I thought, oh my God, we've never taken him to Buckingham Palace. And immediately I felt guilty. I was like, we don't, we haven't shown him all the sights of london we haven't been to tower bridge we haven't done the london eye yet and

44:22He Said, She Said Hosts: we haven't done the open top bus i think i know why you don't experience the mum guilt too much because you don't have that much to be guilty for because you're a very present even though you are busy with different things you're still a very present mama which is really important

44:39He Said, She Said Hosts: and i think that's why you don't have these moments or episodes of like sadness I suppose is what guilt is it's like the heaviness in your tummy where you're like I've missed something there or but also just to give you like a maybe a different perspective let me get this off my chest doing things like going to Buckingham Palace or going on the London Eye in a way it's quite sweet that we have those moments reserved for grandparents and other family members because if we were to do it all and we were to go out and do all these things on the weekends or you know bank holidays or whatever what's left for them to then experience for the first time because we have to leave some space for their memories as well yeah we can't do it all so like i feel like we i mean we we push the envelope in life generally anyway like he's always doing something we're always doing something as a family so in a way i think it's quite sweet that grandma and granddad can be mr grouper and aunt lucy for the day and he can be Paddington and they can role play in their own way.

45:40He Said, She Said Hosts: I think that's epic.

45:424-year-old: Well, I guess the proof is in the pudding. Are we a good parent? Leo's actually going to come and join us now. So you can be the judge. You guys listening can be the judges. Not you.

45:52He Said, She Said Hosts: No, no, no. I think here's the judge. Before he comes and crashes though, real talk. Happy Mother's Day. I think you're doing a wonderful job.

46:004-year-old: Thank you. At some point he's going to clock it and thank you. And if we ever have two, then we can talk about getting a nanny.

46:17We can sit here and interview Mama. Yeah.

46:24He Said, She Said Hosts: Or you changed your mind already.

46:284-year-old: Yes. What? Mommy is the best. I was pretty excited about that dude Sorry how dope do you look with this little hat on Is it comfy Dad and mum Who do you prefer

46:44He Said, She Said Hosts: You're so fair You're such a fair dude

46:484-year-old: Such a well raised little monkey Picking his nose like that Well that's it Leo you're doing really well Low five Yeah And again

47:044-year-old: That was better. Leo, we want you to be even taller like mummy because I'm such a big girl. Can you sit on this cushion like this? I'm a big girl. I'm sorry, I'm actually not. I'm only five foot. Did you say I'm a fat girl? No, a big girl.

47:18He Said, She Said Hosts: No, these are a fat boy.

47:25He Said, She Said Hosts: did he say i'm not fat boy no because i don't see anyone is fat

47:354-year-old: um gee i can confirm that is not true i did not call you fat she did say fat to her did she say it when did i say that then once that actually sounds a bit too realistic now once she says to me now I'm actually really nervous to have Leo on the pod because we're in an age where he understands what we say at home and he's not going to lie

48:02He Said, She Said Hosts: look at the changing mood, you feel good about this don't you

48:044-year-old: yeah this is a great set up, well done it's nice for you to have your moment Leo I've got a question for you I want to know what is daddy like at home He loves motorbikes. He loves motorbikes. What does he like to do with his bottom? Show him at his fat bum. Okay. He likes to make lots of noises out of his bum, doesn't he? Yeah. Does farts at me?

48:34He Said, She Said Hosts: Well, not at you.

48:364-year-old: Yes, he does farts.

48:37He Said, She Said Hosts: Well, I fart at you.

48:394-year-old: Yes, he did farts.

48:40He Said, She Said Hosts: Oh, okay. Maybe I did fart.

48:424-year-old: I know I did farts because he's so silly. He does. Mummy doesn't fart though, does she? Yes, she does. She does this. No, I don't ever do that because I can't. He did! Yep. I believe you.

48:57He Said, She Said Hosts: I believe you, Leo. I believe you.

48:594-year-old: It's not true. You don't fart. But Leo, you know I can't fart. Why? Because my bum's a bit different. I have a different bum like me and Daddy. I do. It's true. I've got Winnie in my stoma bag, haven't I? Don't say you have poo in your stoma pocket. I like to be open about these things because I think it can help other people.

49:244-year-old: Okay, so we're going to play a quick game of Who Knows Leo Better.

49:29He Said, She Said Hosts: Let's do it. Drum roll.

49:304-year-old: Should we do a drum roll? Whoa. Yay. What is Leo's favourite snack? Bear rolls.

49:39He Said, She Said Hosts: Soaring.

49:404-year-old: Who got it right? What's your favourite snack, Leo? Both of us. Okay, if you have to choose one snack, which is better? Which is your favourite? Which is your favourite snack in the whole world? You can choose any snack. You can choose ice cream, lollipops, serene, bear rolls. Bear rolls. Serene and a bear roll. Oh, you like both. We gave you too many choices. Okay, that's a tie for mummy and daddy. You got lucky there. What is Leo's favourite colour? Yellow.

50:07He Said, She Said Hosts: Orange.

50:084-year-old: Yeah, yellow and orange. we're such good parents we both know but you did tell me earlier it was yellow daddy's favourite what's daddy's favourite colour? what's this? that's a little bit of metal it's a little bit of metal Leo what's daddy's favourite colour? orange yes it is orange you both like the sunny colours green green but also pink pink green and pink together

50:36He Said, She Said Hosts: yeah next question

50:384-year-old: I like that yellow is yours because it's like the sun. What? No. What does... Yes!

50:47He Said, She Said Hosts: Next question. What does Leo want to be when he grows up? Fireman. Yeah.

50:554-year-old: Wait, wait, wait. Shall I ask another question? Instead of Uncle Pete, where are they? I know. What do you think Uncle Pete's going to be when he grows up? He's already grown up. I know.

51:06He Said, She Said Hosts: Is he a silly old man?

51:074-year-old: Yeah, he looks like a weird mouse. Luke, he's calling Pete a mouse.

51:14He Said, She Said Hosts: That's so good. Where's that come from? Is it because of the hair?

51:174-year-old: Did you see a photo of him next door? And he looks like a mouse.

51:21He Said, She Said Hosts: No, no.

51:214-year-old: Yeah. I kind of know where you're coming from. What animal is mummy? A duck.

51:29He Said, She Said Hosts: Oh, what? A cute little baby duck or a big mama one?

51:334-year-old: Big mama.

51:35He Said, She Said Hosts: Oh.

51:354-year-old: Is that because I've got a little pout? Mum's a duck. Daddy.

51:40He Said, She Said Hosts: Is.

51:414-year-old: Is. Oh.

51:43He Said, She Said Hosts: I'm waiting for you to say it. Just make sure it's good. Go on. What is it?

51:484-year-old: A pig.

51:50He Said, She Said Hosts: Dude.

51:504-year-old: I'm very obsessed.

51:51He Said, She Said Hosts: You even got prompted by G. She was like, lion, you're a pig.

51:544-year-old: Yeah, she said a lion to be kind. Leo. He is like a pig. That ice cream has just been scratched off. Sorry, I'm a bit very intelligent, to be fair. What is Leo's favourite toy? Magnet Charles.

52:08He Said, She Said Hosts: Stretch Armstrong.

52:114-year-old: Lego, Duplo. Yeah.

52:14He Said, She Said Hosts: Stretch, stretch.

52:154-year-old: He never plays with Stretch Armstrong.

52:18He Said, She Said Hosts: He does.

52:184-year-old: No, but Lego Duplo every day. I do. Both.

52:25He Said, She Said Hosts: You keep hitting that microphone, buddy. That's right, don't you?

52:284-year-old: I do Stretch Armstrong and Lego and Duplo. What other toys do you like? Yellow tractor. A yellow tractor. Who do you think looks older, mummy or daddy? Not you guys. Do we look quite young? Does Uncle Pete look old? He looks like a silly old man. He looks like a silly old man. What about Sam? What animal is Sam? He also looks like a silly old man. They're both. They're a pair of silly old men. Yeah. Fair play. So who won the game, Leo?

53:044-year-old: That's not how a game works, but I like that you're so fair that both me and Daddy are. We're so bang on. We know you so well.

53:14He Said, She Said Hosts: Shall we give it up for Leo? Thanks, buddy. Good job, darling.

53:194-year-old: Woo-hoo! Do you want to say one line?

53:22He Said, She Said Hosts: Oh, I love you. Do you want to say, thank you for listening? Bye, darling.

53:274-year-old: Not with your hands on that. Say, thank you for listening. Thank you for listening.

53:36This has been a Staying Relevant production.