Why I’m Fighting for a Maternity Commissioner in the UK...

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0:32I've told you that you look like a lady from Lady and the Tramp today.

0:34Louise: Thank you. My favourite character. I think we should revisit that movie. There's a few movies I want to revisit this weekend. Anyway, why don't you tell me about your raucous hen do? You came back at 2am. I did actually. You lit. I wasn't lit. I was even drunk. Imagine if that was the announcement. That would be a bit savage. God, I'm so tired. I'll be honest. I haven't slept in six nights. Where are those red glasses that we have? I feel like Louise needs the red glasses. Yeah, I do. I turned up with some brown tinted specks this morning, looking like Anastasia. Right back. The hen was good. I feel like an old person at a hen these days.

1:17Louise: It's because you are. It was a little different. There were no cock straws. Have you ever been on a hen do with cock straws? Yeah, like lots. with like, I've never, I'm yet to see a stripper. Disappointing, we'll save that for ours. There was like a napkin that said like same penis forever. I've been a butler in the buff before to an event. You've been one? What? Never told you that before. What? Me and my best mate at the time, Tim, who was absolutely shredded with a massive dick. What the hell? What does that have to do with the story? Because we're talking about strippers and I was like, Oh my God, I just remembered I actually have done hen parties where I've got an apron on, just an apron.

2:02Wait, with your butt cheeks out? I've got women like squeezing my butt cheek whilst I've got a tray of drinks. When?

2:09Louise: How old are you? Mate, do you know what's even funnier about this? How much did you get paid? The BBC Weather Girl for the Welsh TV channel, it was her hen do. And she basically saw us in Abercrombie, me and Tim, and she's like, I want you too. Why do I not know this story? We were young, we were like, fuck yeah, we'll do it. Give us the apron. What did you charge for that kind of service? Oh, like 50 quid an hour or something? And how long were you there for? I remember the drive was quite far from like Cardiff to somewhere in the countryside. I don't think it was worth it to be fair. But wait, if you're walking around with your junk hanging out, like, can people see it from behind?

2:42Yeah, it was a massive problem because Tim was, he was a handsome dude, shredded and he was like... And I was like, this is a big problem for Ryan.

2:53Louise: He's a grown-up, not a shepherd. I feel like most guys are growers, not showers. Yeah, I'd like to think so. Just from experience. I might have seen more than you. Actually, probably not. Anyway, back to your hen. It was, yeah, it was good. We started off at 5 Hartford Street for some quite civilised drinks and then went for a dinner at Dean Street Townhouse and then we tried to get into a club. It was actually really awkward because we couldn't get in for ages. Oh my God, this is so humiliating. So I spent most of my late teens and 20s going to clubs and being let in quickly.

3:47Louise: because I guess the people that I was dating had tables. God, this is disgusting. So it never really felt like a problem. This is reminding me of the movie Knocked Up. Have you seen Knocked Up? When the two pregnant mums go out and they like try to get into the club. And they're like, back at the queue. No, no, actually it was fucking exactly like that. So there were these three door girls with clipboards like this fucking iPad. and they were looking at this like big group. There were like 15 of us all looking very old and average and not pregnant actually. That would have been too far. But like probably half of us were parents and they honestly, there was like a lot of whispering going on.

4:32Louise: And then none of us even had IDs because why the hell would we need ID? We're like all rising 40. And they were like, can you get your IDs up? I'm like, oh, sorry. At which point I'm like, I'm like, do I need to go on Wikipedia and show people how old I am? Because I'm a public figure. But I did not pull that card. Instead, I was like, I cannot let anyone know that I'm Louise Thompson from Maine, Chelsea. This is so embarrassing. So anyway, two people had plastic card IDs. The rest had digital IDs. This is like a new wave of clubbing. So I found, I actually got a photo of my passport on my phone.

5:04Oh my God.

5:05Louise: Showed it. And then they were like, okay, that should be fine. Then after like 20 more minutes, they kind of were like, this is not going to work out. because they just thought, they were probably thinking like, what could we offer to the nightclub? Slut drops. We weren't going to be slut dropping. We weren't going to be macking off. And then my friend Xantha actually basically was like, we'll pay for a table. Oh my God. And they were like, she said, how much is a table? Even though, by the way, we were on like a guest list. We'd sorted a guest list. So we should have been let in. And they were like, yeah, that would be 2K.

5:442K?

5:44Louise: Because my poor friend, it's her bloody hen, and she's standing there, and everyone's like, everyone else is actually pretty lit. Wait, wait, wait, sorry, sorry, sorry. This is the same hen do where you were, like, having some problems about the£180 to contribute to the evening, and now you've just sponged 2K on a table. Desperate times, called pedestrian measures. So we all march in. We then, like, proceed to get IT'd three more times, walking into this dungeon. This is bullshit. And then we get there, and there are different floors, and, and, oh my God. Yeah. Anyway, we're on this table. They've like cover off phones with stickers.

6:20Louise: We're like, where are we going? There are some like naked ladies dancing in cages. I felt quite excited because the music was good. Yeah. What bottle did you have on your table? What did you not request? Well, I don't even drink. Great goose. A fucking massive thing of great goose. people with, all the menus now are digital as well. So we're scanning through being like, what is the cheapest bottle? No, this story has actually given me the ick, mate. And I sat on like a ledge because I was like, I'm not dancing around this table. So I just sat there like a bloke, like literally like this. Just like checking out girls and guys.

6:52Louise: But it was all guys. It was all hideous men. I think that the table next to us basically complained because they would have spent loads more money. They had lots of bottles. They had like all the sparklers coming out of Dom Perignon bottles. And I kept seeing them look over. And then I'm pretty sure they were like, we've paid a lot of money. You can't put us next to them. They were really disappointed that we weren't hot enough. My God. Yeah, it was really uncomfortable. Is this like, is this quench your thirst for going clubbing? Because you've been talking about going raving for so long. Can we just fucking bury that now?

7:27Louise: No, because it did not fill up that void. Mate, honestly, that story really hurt me. It was, it was really offensive, actually, the whole thing. I felt it was the least cool that I've ever felt in my life. I love how you've waited like 10 days to tell me the real version. I almost wanted to like pop my hand up and be like, I promise that I used to be like cool and attractive. I was going to let you know now. You're on this like downward slope of like, I'm getting old. I ain't doing that yet. I'm still going up. All right. Despite looking tired. Some of the others went back and had a house party and they were up until 6am.

7:59Louise: I mean, they were, they were living their best life. Mate, you should have fucking just pulled the pin and gone for it. I had things a lot better. Well, gone there. And then what would I have done the next day with Leo?

8:09Louise: what I could have just, would you let me lie in bed all day? Well, you've been honestly just, just to remind everyone, you've been talking about going raving for years. Like since you got better, you're like, right. I just really want to go and like have a good rave. I'm just going to let you know, this was not my crowd. The Mayfair lot, not my crowd. I used to go to a club called Aura in Mayfair. Right. And actually funny story at that time, guess who the DJ was in the middle of the dance floor? Fleur East. Really? Who was a friend of my housemate, Gas. And I was like, oh, hi, Fleur. Nice to meet you.

8:39And she was like a trainer DJ. Now she's like mega.

8:42Louise: Does she do stuff herself? Yeah. Hits radio. I now know what I will not be doing for my handy. No, can I tell you what you should do? I saw it on the train home last night. What should I do? Do you remember seeing me on the train? Well, I and I were on the train together last night on the way back from late Windermere. Hence, we're so exhausted. And you were laughing to yourself. We were sat like across, like quite far away from each other. You were just laughing to yourself the entire trip. And then you were sending me loads of DMs and stuff. I haven't watched any of them. Oh, they're in what looks like a treehouse, like cabin in the woods.

9:17And the hen comes out and she's blindfolded, but she's dressed like a bit like a lumberjack man. So she's got like denim shorts, ripped up shirt, a wig. And she's got like a stuck on mustache. And she gets like wheeled out by her mates. And then she takes it off and all of her female mates are dressed as like lumberjacks and they're all like, yeah, with like bottles and chainsaws, axes, like fake things like this. And it's just fucking epic, mate. Watch the video.

9:44Louise: What? That was the viral video that you sent me on the train. But you need to watch it because the music and everything. But why would, what? Well, it's just a piss take. They're like, oh, we're going to be lads. We're going to dress up as like lumberjacks. They're all fake mustaches and bottles. And they're like, yeah. So are you going to, for your hair, are you going to dress up as a chick? I looked at it and I was like, you genuinely look like you're having a very fun time there. I was like, there's nothing pretentious about it. There's nothing like, like, should we cheers a glass? They're like dressed as like dudes, fake mustaches, and they just got bottles of beer.

10:17Louise: Or maybe her husband to be is like a lumberjack type as well. Okay. So say we're doing don't tell the bride. Yeah. And you're organizing my stag. Just do your stag. and you're organising my hen yeah what's it looking like like what I just described to you all your mates dressed up as like lumberjacks little like curly like 118 wigs fake mustaches sunglasses boots denim shorts ripped up shirts maybe like a fake tattoo on the arm just like just think about like the kind of like most repulsive like male so we're so unsexy and there are no blokes involved it was quite funny though when you're all in on it in these costumes.

10:57Louise: What are you doing? Going out. Where are we going out? In a fucking, in a wood cabin. Oh, I don't know. Maybe you don't go out to it. You just like, let it hang out at the. I'll tell you, that scenario is really fun if you drink and take drugs. Drugs? I don't do either of those things. So I'm not going to just dress up like that and hang out in a woods. You tell me your version of a hen do then. Go on. Robes and slippers and Prosecco. I don't drink Prosecco. No Secco. oh my god why is prosecco cringe come back to me with your version of a hen do i actually to be fair i would like to go to iceland and i would like to go and see the northern lights and i'd like to go in the blue lagoon i'd like to you had a problem about spending 180 quid g told me at this this morning that the average hen do is 800 quid you're now going to iceland to do Blue Lagoon and Northern Lights.

11:52You're in the thousands already.

11:54Louise: Well, maybe it could be me on my own. Maybe it could be me and you. No, I think, look, I'd find a way. I'm sensible. I'm like a travel agent. I could use Emily, my sister, in travel agent details. She gets good discounts. That would be what I think would be. It would be a cool environment to have a party in. Yeah, you're quite jealous. Sounds good, yeah. It's actually a good idea, isn't it? What if you had to plan my stag to do? Where would you send us? Well, it depends if I want you to actually have a good time or whether I want you to have a sensible time. Why don't you do a... Are we going to do a sten?

12:31Louise: Could you do an Icelandic sten together so you come on this trip? No, no, no, no, no, no. I don't even know why we're talking about it, man. You ain't even going to get married at this point. We are, we are. For anyone that doesn't know what a sten is, a sten is a stag and a hen combined. So we get to celebrate together. Who even thought that that was a good idea to part? I actually have some friends whose husbands are so unlucky that they've not even had a stint. Their equivalent of a stag is just turning up to the hen party. That's the only bloke and getting to hang out and do that. And that's like box ticked.

13:01No, no, no. Any bloke that's going on a hen dude needs to have a slap. Oh, God. That's just not the idea of it. You're supposed to like commemorate like, fuck, this is it. I'm locked in for the rest of my life. this is going to be the biggest night where I pull the pin and just go for it.

13:19Louise: Is yours going to be like the hangover of the movie that you watch every week? Yes, probably. But the trouble is like, I'm so terrible with alcohol. I'll be like finished by my third beer. I think the key is like who I would allow you to go with. But fuck no, you don't touch my stag dude. But because then actually, as long as you're with like the right people. This is welcome to my relationship with Louise Thompson. I'm going to just vet the list. If you're with Sam, even... Sam on my stag do is not a problem. He's not a problem? No, he'll just slot in with my vibe. I bet there's loads of women out there around Christmas time that will Google what to buy my partner for Christmas or birthdays or stags or anything.

14:04Louise: And quite often you'll get these activities that pop up, like go to an F1 track and test drive cars. And in my mind, that was the thing. I was thinking, what can I do with the run? Can you get in a helicopter and do like a tour? A tour of a city with your mates? And then I'm imagining champagne. I'm like, that doesn't feel that masculine. Or like you test driving really fast cars around a track and just being like, lads, like fast driving. But then I don't want it to be too similar to mine. And mine is like a cool outdoorsy Icelandic thing, but I think you might want that for yourself. I think you might like to do like a camping thing where you're all staying actually in a cabin in the woods and there's like a lot of cold water swimming and a lot of beers and a lot of things to cars.

14:51Louise: And I'm thinking maybe like somewhere really rural. That's fine. Yeah. Yeah. What would you like to do? I don't know. What would I want to do? I'd probably want to like get on motorbikes and have like a couple of people who can't ride bikes in cars and we'd go down to Cornwall or we can go to West Wales if you want. We can go there. and we'll do everything from like hot saunas, we'll smoke cigars, we'll drink beers, we'll have a grill on the beach. That's exactly what I just said. We'll create like a volleyball net and we'll recreate the Top Gun scene. Oh my God. Yeah, we'll maybe do like, I don't know, an activity which would be something super masculine and primal.

15:32Louise: Like let's build, like let's see, let's split into two camps and see who can build like a survival cabin first. Let's build a fucking massive fire, bonfire on the beach. I don't know. And then it's just like, yeah. Man, I'm such a basic dude though. I don't need any of that. I don't need a table with Dom Perignon. I don't need that. What about strippers? I mean, fun, fun. But at the same time, I'd be like, what do I do with this? What do I do with this? What does one do with a stripper? Stare. And I'm like, sorry. thank you it's actually a bit uncomfortable have you been to a strip club before?

16:16yeah

16:17Louise: what did you do at the strip club? that for about 10 minutes and I was like ah it's just a bit shit let's go yeah is it not like teasing? yeah is it not just a bit awkward? hence my point like what am I going to do next then? it's like nothing so I'll see you yeah to be honest I don't think I want to do a STEM with you but yeah but well if they were just combining your mates and my mates then that's basically just the wedding right exactly like what's the point it's just like a small wedding then it's kind of cheeky to ask people to part ways with cash for two big events you go to iceland mate you go to iceland nice it's been a it's been a varied week one night at a hen and then the next in the houses of parliament i feel like a little imposter it's quite the switch of gears i know it's really catching up with me I don't know who I am anymore uh yeah so it was thank you I wanted to say for coming down with me to the um to the debate on Monday night at the beginning of this year set up a petition for the government to appoint a maternity commissioner and three months into the mission we have over 150 ,000 signatures and the petitions committee put our debate forward for a debate and that happened this Monday which feels like a really pivotal point for our campaign um we we went down to the houses of parliament and sat in and 24 MPs showed up in in the room which was amazing because there was actually a clash with the prime minister's sort of emergency statement he had to land at 3 30 so we were actually sure that no one was going to come because they'd be expected to be in the main chamber we were in a side room I was gonna say like a small room it was actually a massive room with a big horseshoe table off Westminster Hall which is like the main kind of big one that tourists are allowed to go and visit and take photos of and and I was really really impressed with the turnout which just shows the magnitude of the problem and Rizey came down with me my mum came I was there with Theo Clark who's the co-petitioner um actually Anna Williamson who's a the co-host of um Luanna the podcast came as well because she suffered a really traumatic about 10 years ago it was a very bizarre experience sitting in a room where you've got some very serious officials talking about a story which is not just about you and your family but it's being referenced to quite often as in you know different speakers that would get up and say their piece i think every one of them mentioned you to start off their speech which is um I don't know.

18:52It was quite, it was quite weighty. I got back in the car afterwards and I was like, gosh, that was really quite something. Because I've not been as involved as you have in this petition. Obviously, you've been doing a lot of hard work. I've just scooped up on the detail from you and what I've seen. But I was sat in that room and it probably became very, very, very real. that this was not just something that was being talked about on social media, but it's actually, there is a steam train, which is gathering real speed and momentum for this outcome that you're trying to get. And I think that was maybe the overwhelming part, because I was like, oh my gosh, this is really, really happening.

19:38Louise: You left a bit early, and I didn't know whether that was because it was perhaps quite triggering for you. I got annoyed from right out the gate when they told you to take your sign down, because they thought it was a protest. What, that actually annoyed you? I was like, you've got, you completely missed the mark there. They're trying to celebrate something very good. They're trying to impose lasting change that is going to protect families up and down the country, some of which you might know, or friends of yours might know. And yet, because you were showing a number that said 150 ,000, they viewed that as a protest and they took it off you.

20:12So that got my back up. How was it for you? How do you think it went?

20:16Louise: I found it really, really interesting. I thought it was an incredibly powerful few hours. I have so much respect for MPs that dedicate so much time to sitting in those meetings, because once you've decided that you're going to give a speech and you're allocated that time and space, you have to stay in that room until the end of the conversation. and that's a lot when those people could be going and having meetings with constituents or heading home to look after their own families or doing other things so I'm really really grateful for all of the commitment it was amazing I got to meet my own local MP for Chelsea and Fulham Ben Coleman really grateful that he showed up and and supported the campaign and actually he taught me a really interesting fact and I think that this is this feels relevant because it's just been Black Maternal Health Week so Five Times More is a sort of campaign that highlights that black mothers are five times more likely to die than white mothers and a big part of the work that the government has been doing is trying to reduce that inequality so actually now it's closer to three to one but the stark reality is that it's not because they've improved the health of black mothers it's actually just because the outcomes for all mothers are worse so there's still so much work to do and so much data that needs to be gathered and and I think like listening to all of the speeches um they were really moving it was really hard there were times where I had goosebumps and others where I felt like I was going to burst into tears it was a reminder of why the campaign is so important because every single person in that room had a personal story there was a father who spoke about his own personal loss.

22:02Louise: There was a mother who had a friend who'd experienced loss. There were many, many stories that were read out from MPs' constituents, and I thought that that was really brilliant that they gave those stories. I think it was really important that they delivered those stories. I also think it was really groundbreaking that so many Labour MPs went on the record to support the appointment of the Maternity Commissioner because essentially they're going against what the government has suggested. Explain that to me. Well, when you work in politics as an MP, you're expected to support your party. You'd think that an MP could choose to vote in favour of whatever they felt was right and also vote in favour of what was right for their constituents.

22:53Louise: But more often than not, they're expected to vote in favor of what the their leader believes is right this is this is like an organization it's like a football team it's like you can't have your physio um i don't know going against the ethos of the head coach if they're all part of the same club especially a good analogy i think that that that's why in this case it was quite unusual because so many people were going against the grain and that takes a huge amount of bravery to do that it was actually brilliant as well i met the youngest ever um mp this female mp who's only 28 she came up to me outside and she was like thank you so much for all of the work you're doing and i was like thank you for what you're doing you're really pioneering the way for young people that's great very impressive and very hard so when i was there for the hour and a half let's say yes there was a lot of speeches of similar people recounting either their own lived experience or very close to their lives and it was very powerful.

23:51Some of them I really connected with and two in particular, an elderly gentleman from Scotland and a woman from Nottingham Forest. Yeah. I got really moved by their two accounts. My point is, what was the resolution of this conference?

24:06Louise: It was an opposition minister from the Conservatives and she presented all of her reasons why she thought that the Labour government were currently failing and what they should be doing better and why she thought that a maternity commissioner would be a good idea and then the Labour minister gave her rebuttal and explained what their plans were it was actually quite informative I learned that the current task force which is being headed up by Wes Streeting is um fully enforced they've had their first meeting on the 24th of March and they're going to be having regular meetings every six to eight weeks but it'd be really nice for us as civilians to know exactly what is going on in those meetings and what policy changes are going to be made and actually they did announce that Theo and I are going to be meeting with Wes on Tuesday.

24:47Louise: So from our side, we've now got to put together a bit of a plan to make sure that he commits to something off the back of that meeting. They can't make decisions without the health minister being there. So they were all asked to vote in favour of the maternity commissioner. They were all asked what their opinion was at the end. They say all in favour of the maternity commissioner, and everyone said aye, except for one, which is really positive. so okay so this is what i'm trying to get to i'm trying to visualize how this thing's concluded you had sir alec who was hosting it or chairing it at the end was did he just ask the question those in favor of the maternity commissioner and everyone here here yeah bar one bar one yeah okay so that's the that's the progressive sense of this because there's a lot of this chat feels very stagnated because it's like yeah we're gonna have this meeting and we're gonna try and get this person there and it's like i think that's what's really frustrating about politics things move really slowly things move yeah they move slowly and so it's not a one hit one bit frustration even from the members of parliament yes everyone was very said we've been here several several several times lives have been lost there's four more babies in this meeting already that have been born and probably there's more stories to add to the power that's exactly everyone's exasperated by this bloody thing yeah so i'm trying to get an idea because i don't know like what is the actual takeaway progressive like here's the plan well that's exactly why we're pushing for the commissioner because they would be the person that would umbrella an entire plan There's a huge amount of pressure on the government to deliver something groundbreaking in spring.

26:12Louise: And we're hoping that we can try and convince West Streeting that it's going to be a good idea. The frustrating thing is that there's no immediate conclusion because that's not how politics works. There's a whole line of people that policy changes need to go through. And essentially Keir Starmer needs to sign it off. And the Treasury, Rachel Reeves, needs to sign it off. And they need to allocate a lot more budget. I mean I've learned some crazy things. The government spends 200 billion pounds on the NHS every year. Isn't that mad? Two billion of that, circa two billion is spent on maternity services.

26:50Louise: So one percent? You'd think it would be more. I don't know why. I mean maybe I'm obviously inherently biased when we talk about any of these sorts of things because of my experience and being a mother myself and a woman that has to give birth but you'd think when when this like life-changing event happens it involves two people like of course we're going to need double the amount of medical resources than any other surgery any other health condition two lives sometimes more someone actually a midwife messaged me last week saying that now with the conditions that women face we we need one-to-one care when it comes to childbirth and we're no way reaching those targets with 2 ,500 midwives short in this country and and yet there are no vacancies because they're just not pumping the money into hiring there's a shortage but they're not hiring yeah because there's no money to take on new stuff yeah so that'll always be the problem 75 of the money in the nhs is spent on staff like the staff obviously run everything obviously there's infrastructure so you know i've spoken to people that have been giving birth in private wards in our local hospital that have had ceilings fall through and they've they're literally giving birth and they've got maintenance men coming in because they're crowning like not even joking it is it's a second rate to health service and we are the fifth largest economy in the world and what makes me really angry is that it takes for someone to die in order for there to be a small minuscule change or something really significant like someone being born with a really debilitating brain injury so like I guess what happened to Jessie Nelson with her twins being born with SMA that could have been so prevented if there was a maternity commissioner if there had been a maternity commissioner 10 years ago when they first started running all these inquiries and they were over 700 recommendations they were actually being actioned there probably would have been this heel prick test because someone else who wasn't famous definitely had this problem 10 years ago but no one spoke up about it so then they didn't allocate the money to help all those other babies that have been that could have now just left like disabled because it was left too long and they weren't treated with the correct medication it's infuriating and then you get women that die and And then there's Martha's rule and there's Sam's law and there's all these different names.

29:23Louise: And I think like that could I just imagine if there'd been it could have been Louise's law. Like it literally could have been like, oh, Louise died. And now we have to have the law that like if someone asks for a C-section, you have to give it to them. You would think that there would be whole departments that are looking at what other progressive countries are doing and adopting some of the same approaches. But this is why management consultants even exist, because sometimes you need an external pair of eyes to come in and look in. And that's it. That's why the maternity commissioner sits cross-party, so they're external and they're non-biased.

29:52Louise: And then they hold the NHS trusts, their CEOs who are on huge sums of money. They hold them accountable. One of the things that I feel really personally about is the fact that there are no staff. There are no consultants that work after dark. They're on call and they have skeleton staffing rotors and they just about cover each other. so if you are giving birth on a bank holiday or on a weekend or when it's dark you are at risk and I want to and that and that was our situation and I should have given birth and had a c-section on the Saturday and I had to wait until the Monday until people came in to work and then said it's an emergency that is not okay because unlike other even you know emergency emergency operations like the colon removal like it can be pushed back until the operating theater is available like there's someone who needs it more than me like someone is bleeding to death and needs to be sewn up immediately so you can wait 12 hours you can wait 24 hours you can wait 36 48 hours a couple of days you're like pushing and you're getting more ill but like you're going to get the treatment and that team they're gathering themselves together to operate on you when a baby comes you cannot wait 48 hours that's when babies die like you don't have the time so they have to have more resources available it's so obvious to me and obviously i'm not the one that has to like try and manage the money so but do better everybody is born you've got a name for this campaign just please please can we have a maternity commissioner so that people stop dying I think one of the most interesting things I listened to in that Westminster Hall meeting was a lady said that actually the data we have is only really the tip of the iceberg.

31:51She was like, imagine how many mothers have just swept under the carpet, all the kind of missed things and moments in the delivery room or beforehand. or because I'd imagine there's so many mums and families who would be at home thinking, I'm sure that wasn't necessary or needed or maybe we could have avoided this. Imagine that. That's exactly it.

32:12Louise: And that is, so people say it's a postcode lottery, people say it's a postcode lottery, but I actually say it's more of a Russian roulette. It's literally 50-50.

32:23Yeah.

32:23Louise: One in three people think that they've had a traumatic birth. I think it's probably more. And you're right. That was a really interesting point. about the data being the tip of the iceberg. Most people don't have the confidence to speak up. And also people aren't told how to complain, understandably. Again, hospitals aren't going, here's the form that you fill out if you want to tell us how bad we've done. So it takes for people, it's only the people who have been impacted so significantly that they cannot go on, they cannot live their life unless they do something about it because they've lost a partner or children.

32:58Louise: so they then go this is you have ruined my life forever I'm going to find other people whose lives you've ruined and we are going to get to the bottom of this and then they have the reviews and I think there are 10 hospitals that are being looked into at the moment I think that they should all be looked into I feel scared saying that I have to have NHS healthcare like I don't have private healthcare and I don't know whether I could even get private healthcare now and I shouldn't even say that because then I won't get private healthcare and I'm saying it publicly it's a scary place to be I have conditions I'm only 36 I've got to hopefully I'll live a long life but I've got my whole life ahead of me where I have to have a good relationship with the NHS and with practitioners and for you know and so it does sometimes feel really scary unpicking these things and sometimes exposing people because they're going to hate me but like I feel like I'm now I know that there's an army of people behind me like I feel like I can do it and I actually even have had messages from from people that I thought might hate me and like followers from consultants and like LinkedIn connections with like heads of staff for like the NHS and all these things.

34:19Louise: And then I think like, oh, maybe they're actually on my side. So maybe it's not a personal thing. Like these people in these positions of power, they're not thinking, oh, Louise is awful for exposing us. They're actually just, they maybe want to be part of the movement too. Well, they probably do. It's the same with any industry. Take the Instagram social media influencer space. Like we're in it, but we also like, I would imagine the general perception is pretty negative and like, oh, you spoiled fucking bastards. Like look at you just frolicking around. Like when in reality, we know the other side of it you know i mean like and we know we we recognize that they're not being helpful or any of that stuff what's it being an insider versus an outsider as in if they work in the industry they too have been witnessing that this for so long but they often don't have the people that they can speak to to escalate things because actually yes there's a lot of that inside as well where midwives don't know who they can report to yes safely without having their jobs So, Resk, which is petrifying.

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36:40Have you been watching At Home with the Furies? I feel like everyone in the nation is watching this. Do you know what my barometer is? It's Natalie on the gates of nursery. I'm like, what are you watching at the moment? And she'll either say, like, I'm a celeb or dancing. And she's like, I have a Furious. She's watching at Home of the Furious. That is so iconic.

36:57Louise: I haven't watched the second season yet. I'm so excited to. I have not at the time. As you guys all know, I've been very busy. But I slayed the first season when I was actually in hospital. Yeah. It got me through. I never watched the first series. but I feel like have I missed something pretty special there? Is it a good one? It's so I love how honest they are and also they're such a fab family like they've got like the bond between Tyson and his wife is actually a beautiful thing. What's his wife called? Like their childhood sweetheart sweetheart sweetheart Paris I feel like they've been together since they were like 15 or 16, 17 they got married quite young and they've got they've got seven kids.

37:37I've seen some clips he comes across incredibly well actually.

37:40Louise: I wonder what her bad experience is like. Actually, I don't want to know. Did you see the clip of... The kid. Yeah. Yeah. Well, actually, yes. Did you see it? Was it Adonis? And Tyson tries to get him up. And he's like, come on, it's time for school. He's like, are you an idiot or are you just daft? And he's like, what does he say in response? He's like, oh, come on, we've got to get to that. A dafty. A dafty. I'm so bad at impressions. And then he's like, I think Tyson responds. He's like, I'm a daft. He's like, yeah, well, just fuck off. What would you do if Leo said that? I'm going to ask you, I actually think that is hilarious.

38:19But I also know that that's unacceptable for a seven-year-old to say fuck off to his dad or anyone. But it is bloody funny, though.

38:27Louise: I'm sorry. I don't know what I would do. Oh, mate, you would freak. I would see the funny side. But I know that that's not right. And that's not the way to be. I think it would be more shocking in our scenario, maybe because we don't say fuck off all the time around the house. I actually need to stop swearing so much in the podcast. But if Leo did that to you, would you laugh? Or would you tell him off?

38:49I'd laugh. I'd try and conceal it so he didn't see it.

38:53Louise: You laugh. Actually, you do this all the time. Like, Leo will do something really bad and you'll laugh. You encourage it. You're actually an enabler of bad behaviour. It is hard, though. Like, even on the weekend, we went to this really fancy restaurant. and he was with his best mate Louie and they've been quite naughty. And at one point I actually just, I lost it. I was like, this is, we'd been there for three hours. The behavior was so bad. They were, he was like dropping gravy all over the cream seats, like drawing everywhere. Like also jump, like he stands up on the furniture in a restaurant, it's really bad.

39:24Louise: And I like went into a mode that like none of you guys will have seen. And actually even my friends who have had, it's like, haven't really seen. It's, it's, it's. not great it's like a different it's basically like it's a learned personality it's like a teacher like you have to turn yourself into a teacher and become like a responsible adult really quickly and so i got really angry and i was like leo stop doing that now or i will have to take you home we will not be able to have a play date again and then he's like really scared and i've scared myself because i'm like i don't even know who this is and then and then he like started smirking and we all as adults had to turn around and like pretend there was something really interesting on the other table because we're all literally about to hysterically laugh and then that would ruin the entire thing it is so hard i've just freaked you out with that telling off haven't i i know i was like oh my god i would also be freaked out by that did you see that his daughter venezuela age 15 now 16 is engaged see that clip because i did see that clip and first of all i i really admire how he handled that situation because i don't know how much of it is real by the way i don't know if he knew that was coming i don't know if it's like scripted or whatever but it looked as though she just pounced in with this news of i'm gonna get engaged well she basically told him before noah even asked for permission he's gonna he's gonna ask me to marry him so they'd actually already had the conversation which sounds like it wouldn't be much of a surprise then would you be okay with leo getting engaged at 16 fuck no no well even if the 16 is so young guys i'm sorry even if his girlfriend was really lovely i'd actually be like forget it that poor girl needs to live a little no it's a hard no from me you can't make a decision like that but tyson tyson handled it incredibly well and again i don't know how much of that was rehearsed or how much of that is him but if that is him then kudos because he delivered that with such a such a like a very considered approach and he was very sweet to his wife paris what was his what was his standpoint what does he say what he what he did really well is that he didn't belittle this girl to say you're too young for it he just highlighted that 16 is a young age and what you're talking about is a lifelong commitment this is not just like a you know a flippant crush thing it's like okay you're 16 it's young what you're talking about is a lifelong thing when i met your mum i knew within a week that she was going to be my wife if you feel the same about noah then i can't say anything and i'm happy for you and in fact for him to like get to that point in the conversation so quickly.

42:00And he didn't do it with any like, no real like jabs or directness. It was like very considered. It was epic.

42:11Louise: So you think he's a good dad? He came across incredibly well there. And there's a few where I've seen him come across incredibly well. Do you know anything about Tyson Fury's boxing career? Well, I watched the first season. I know that he's got bipolar and he needs to box to get out his anger. You don't know anything about his career? he's a big guy I'm trying to think of all the things I don't have I actually think that I think he's quite attractive Shall I give you a whistle stop tour? He's got like he's got like really big man energy like he's What? No, now you've fucking lost me You came across incredibly well in that clip Yeah, he looks like an honest humble man No, sorry, no He's got a nice voice, like a deep voice.

42:56From Morecambe Bay?

42:58Louise: That's not a nice accent. That's where the hospital inquiry is taking place. Oh, well done. They've got a terrible... Well, I should speak to Paris about her birth experiences. It's actually a really good idea. She might have had them at home. Look down the camera. Paris, please can I speak to you about Morecambe Bay? Help me with the campaign, because your MP will be very, very involved in that inquiry. Oh, wow. I just got really excited then. so I think that he's he's just he's just got like a he'd like he's got an energy that he would he would not let anything bad happen to you to be fair it's similar energy to yours no no no no no no no like a protective energy he's unified boxing he's not unified but he's a boxing champion heavyweight of course you're gonna have that swag about you yeah but it's part of the game on the show they open all the kids school reports all seven of them I don't think they're all at school yet there's still some little ones um a select few and adonis's report actually reminds me quite a lot of sam's growing up it was uh they all were like gold star students except for him so it felt a little bit savage but he is quite up and down and paris actually spoke quite candidly on the show um about her worries around whether he might be bipolar and take after tyson because he's speaks very openly about his mental health in the show which I commend hugely because I think it's really important to understand these sorts of conditions better and to remove the taboo um I do think it's it's uh it's a hard one as a parent if you recognize signs of mental health conditions and your kids are quite young because children go through a lot of different phases.

44:55Louise: And I don't think, I don't know, like how you ever actually get a proper diagnosis for something like that. Well, what was the school report for Adonis? So it said that he was sometimes very good and sometimes very bad. Cool, that's literally every seven-year-old. Do you reckon? Yes. Did your report say that? Probably. Yeah. And if you'd been labelled then bipolar, I guess you don't have a family history of it. That might have affected your outcome in life. do you worry about Leo's school reports? No. And what are you expecting him to say? Leo is very loving, very popular. He kisses everybody.

45:31He runs around the classroom a lot. We constantly have to tell him to use his walking feet, not his running feet. He's very creative. Doesn't always follow instructions, but he is getting better at it. His confidence is growing and he's doing really well. That's how it will go.

45:48Louise: That is actually textbook how it will go. Yeah. So the bad things are basically like he can't control his feet. He's always on the move. And that he's sometimes not going to listen to instructions. But I think that's, I agree. I think that is most kids. I just don't, I don't believe that it's healthy or necessarily helpful for us to analyse kids so young. And to make leaps like, oh, he's got ADHD or he's got a bipolar. Or to even question mental health. It's like, he's a seven-year-old kid. or in Leo's case, he's four. He doesn't know what mental health is or any of those things. He's just in a body that is developing at a rapid rate.

46:27Hormones are surging. He's probably got the same testosterone level as I do.

46:32Louise: Do you reckon it's a teacher's responsibility to flat those kinds of things? Because maybe they've got more experience? Arguably, yes. Although they don't need, I just think in that infancy stage, they just need like, here's the barriers, mate. have a great time so as long as you fit inside that mold, like that sort of like quite wide you don't have to fit in the mold but just know where the barriers are, like let's just bring these kids up to know what's right and wrong, what's safe and dangerous, what's acceptable and not if there's like learning difficulties, that's something you can take note of and monitor but don't call them out in the back of the car or at the breakfast table and be like slightly worried you got bipolar that's just really unhelpful I'd be fucking furious if you did that to Leo.

47:20Would you? Well, you've done it a few times. You're like, oh, I'm a bit worried that he's like, if he rolls his eyes. I see the whole thing. He's just being sassy. He's like, oh, mum's chatting shit again. You think that he's like got some attention disorder because he's rolled his eyes back.

47:33Louise: No, I feel like I'm so annoyingly like hyper aware of everything that he does because I care so much. So I probably do analyse a bit too much. And I do pick up on certain traits. I think it's a, I think it may be, it's like a mother's thing, like an instinct. I have friends who I gather with and they'll say like, oh, my child's tiptoeing a lot. Like I question whether they could have autism. Not in a, not in a, that's the end of the world kind of way. Or, oh my God, like, what am I going to do? Or my child's weird or, um, I don't know, in any kind of labeling way, It's more a curiosity of how their child's going to turn out and whether they need to be doing anything extra.

48:20There's nothing abnormal about Leah.

48:22Louise: Because I see him when he's in a certain environment and he is the most normal child ever. When he's around other kids, like at a birthday party, he is textbook. But then maybe he feels safer around us so he can let his little quirks come out. Yeah. Which I think is good. Sam actually always goes Leo's got ADHD if he keeps doing that that is something that I'll pull him up on yeah he can't do that in front of him Sam's in this like I've got a superpower and that's the way I'm going to tell people what it's like living with ADHD that's great but like don't let's not be too hasty to just throw that on Leo at age 4 yeah I don't think that's right let's see how he goes alright Louise do you want to listen to a question we've got a few come in this week someone said I recently listened to the episode and it was the section about screen time And that was really interested in.

49:13I know you choose to show Leo on your socials. Lots of prints now don't, especially the rise of AI. Do you ever think about changing whether to include him in content or not?

49:22Louise: Yeah, I do think about it. We've had conversations about it a bit more recently. And I don't know why it would be this way, but I have slightly thought that when he goes to his next school, so proper school in September, I would like him to have a lot more privacy at that next phase in his life as he starts to really understand the world around him a lot more. and I have noticed sometimes that when I took him to that Winnie the Pooh event I don't know whether I already mentioned this but he did there were moments where I just felt like he was a little bit uncomfortable and I was like I actually don't really I don't feel like I need him to be here and I don't think this is necessarily right for him so I'd like to try and pull him away from it well he's got no problem taking photos but when you force the fun and when you like try and orchestrate like stand here by this wall of bears or whatever yeah i would be the same i'd be like dude so it's just about the approach in how we include him in the content and he doesn't need to be the focal point but he's just part of the story and that's what i'm trying to do with him like it's less about like i saw a clip recently where someone termed it it's not social media it's service media so it becomes less about like the social interaction and the validation and the likes and the engagement but you're trying to offer a service or a message in the content so like i'm trying to document as many postcards of leo's journey as possible and do it in a way where it's like i'm trying to trying to offer some sort of message or service to other people you might see it okay and i think that's like a really cool opportunity for him to then look back on it ties into the whole letters to leo thing each week it's like oh my god there's so much of my childhood that's been documented in a cool way i think like we do it tastefully i think the worst thing i find is when people are total hypocrites and they feel really strongly against sharing their kids on social media and then they're like but damn it like i really want to show like a little bit of my kid and like and then they'll like show like half their face i'm like well that's just bloody pointless so yeah i don't want to make any bulk claims to like big shake-ups that we're going to make i think if you see it as like an innocent i'm just sharing like a picture of my full family and like my mom's in it and my son's in it and we're all in it from our weekend away and it's sharing it for friends to see or the world to see that it sort of feels like innocent and okay i mean if leo says i don't want to take a photo cool cameras and photos down but if we're having a nice time and i'm like dude let's take a little like let's capture this video or let me take a picture of you on the skis for example yeah like special moments i don't think we actually thrust the camera in his face as much as people might think like for the most part like on the weekend we're all of us are having like a phone free time right the team have had a big debate at lunch and wanted to get your pin on something because they're quite split so people want to know whether we've got find my whether we use find my it's basically location tracking ryan's looking so confused that it's quite clear that we don't use it you know how you've got find my iphone no I know what it is.

52:28Louise: But you can also add friends, people. Oh, no. And actually back in the day, it used to be called Find My Friends. It's like a separate app, I think. Okay. And I used to have all my besties on it. Have you ever used it? No. Do you think we should set it up? No. Why? Okay, do you think we should set it up? Could be quite cute. Like, know when you're on your way home. Could prepare something. Nice little surprise for you. No, because we share location on WhatsApp if we're like on the move. We do do that. Yeah, we do sometimes do that. I'll do that if I'm like, after the hen, I'm a bit scared. I'll share for eight hours just in case like he starts going on the M4 and we're driving to the middle of nowhere.

53:08But that's really sensible. Keep doing that, please.

53:09Louise: Crossing the English Channel. But eight hours is like actually sometimes not enough if you've been kidnapped. I think you kind of need to be longer. So do you want to know something ridiculous? So you have like various air tags for your devices, I think. Am I right? Like cars and so not just devices like vehicles. And keys. Weirdly, you went away over the last few years. You've been away a couple of times. And whenever you're away, something will like start beeping when I'm in the car. And I convinced myself that you were tracking where I was going when you were away. What is it? What was that noise?

53:51I don't know. This was a long time ago you're talking about, isn't it?

53:55Louise: no like a couple of years ago in the car yeah I think I was in Wales at Forest which happened a few times yeah well are you actually looking a bit suspicious now no but I don't have an answer have you been checking me I just don't even have an answer imagine if you've been stalking me nope haven't been stalking I have an air tag in the car I have one on my motorbike which got stolen and because of the air tag I knew it was stolen so practical I have an air tag on my car key when Leo goes to school I'll probably have an air tag in his school bag yeah so is it a definite no then to the find my I can happily give you my location but I don't need yours oh interesting well I just I don't think I care enough to know where you are every hour of the day I'm like I'm like you you do what you need to do mate I'll see you back at the house like not like ooh are you never mysterious at what I'm doing no I in fact our world lacks mystery so if anything I'm like I don't want to know where you are let's make this some sense of surprise bring back some fresh stimulus and new stories why would I be on my app tracking where you are just be like oh yep she's at Sainsbury's I couldn't give a fuck well maybe I need to start being a little bit more mysterious then if there's a problem that I think that I need to know where you are you will either give it to me or I'll ask for the location on WhatsApp I think though but also a lot of people just like it's just fun Maybe it's like a boy-girl thing a bit more.

55:26Okay, would you like my location?

55:28Louise: I think, like, for safety purposes, yes. I'm actually going to ask a few people. I'm going to start tracking everyone. G, Pippa, and Kira. Sorry, Kira, I know you don't use it, but I'll know where you are. And some other people, because then if I'm bored, I can just know where people are. And if people don't reply to me, then I can know where that might be. and if I want to see someone I can then I know whether they're like working from home or whether they're in the office so like it's a no-go or a yeah actually they can maybe come in and slide or work at my house okay I do think that there are examples where people shouldn't have it like if you've just started dating someone I think it's probably not the best idea if you're someone that's got either a stick to personality or just a bit of a stalker I don't I think I need to have find my friends on my phone.

56:19But if you want mine, you can have mine.

56:21Louise: Okay, I'll set it up later. I've got a pretty predictable route. Office, home, gym. Office, home, gym. All right, well, it's that time in the episode when we do our sign-off. So thanks for all the loyalty and love. We're going to be back next week with a new fresh episode. Louise, do you want to say anything? I personally love answering your questions. So if you could keep sending them in, do email us at h triple s at srproductions.co.uk and make sure to follow and subscribe us wherever basically everywhere

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