In short
Nick and Mike Lavecchia (Grain Surfboards) discuss building hollow wooden surfboards in York, Maine; the history and purpose of Grain’s Surf Re-Evolution event (about 14–15 years, started as potlucks/bonfires); Maine cold-water surfing culture; surf photography ethics and localism; and how community inclusion contrasts with surfing’s macho legacy.
Guest backgrounds
Nick and Mike are brothers and “custodians” of surfing culture. They hand-build wooden boards in a York barn. Nick is a pioneer in cold-water surf photography and promotes responsible surf photography on social media. Both previously worked with Burton Snowboards during its early “heyday,” including signing/gear for young athletes like Sean White.
Key claims
Grain’s role is less “responsibility” than keeping the door open and continuing community gatherings (adding talks/Thursday food cart). Surf reports and mapping increase crowding risk; photography should avoid revealing spots. Wood/handcraft and surfing can catalyze major life changes (even quitting jobs).
Notable examples
a massive bonfire incident nearly catching a car and hay barn; families traveling from the Outer Banks, North Carolina, overseas, and mid-Atlantic states; discussion of St. Agnes/“Badlands” spots and how they used to be “two-in-the-car” only; Burton-era story of sending gear to Sean White.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe LaVecchia Brothers and Grain Surfboards
0:45 to 2:44
Discussion about the LaVecchia brothers, their surfboards, and the surfing culture in Maine.
“Board stacked up in the eaves, smell of freshly shaved wood from the workshop next door, and the warmth of two of the surfing world's great custodians, Nick and Mike Lavecchia.”
The Evolution of Surf Events
2:44 to 6:20
Conversation about the history and evolution of the Grain Surfboard's re-evolution event.
“with Nick and Mike, the Levecchia brothers.”
Gathering of Surfers and Community Responsibility
6:20 to 8:13
Exploring the sense of community among surfers and the responsibilities of being stewards of the surf culture.
“And we had to kind of stop the event for a couple of years.”
Surfing and Photography: Capturing Cold Water Waves
8:13 to 11:15
Discussion on surf photography, the cold water surfing scene, and its representation in media.
“But I guess in many ways you are kind of the caretakers of this scene and the community and the culture of surfing and the alternative little flavors within the surfing culture as well.”
Diverse Surfing Cultures and Personal Connections
11:15 to 14:00
Reflecting on personal connections within the surfing world and the unique cultures across different regions.
“and he's very much submerged in the core surf scene, and this was his first time to New England, and he didn't put it together that he was coming to my...”
The Evolution of Snowboarding Culture
14:00 to 16:48
Explore how snowboarding culture has evolved and its inclusive nature compared to surfing.
“And then we got into snowboarding at a place where snowboarding was new.”
Surfing's Legacy Attitude
16:48 to 21:44
Discuss the legacy attitude of surfing and its impact on community and access.
“You know, if you find a good wave, I mean, people that we know, you know, for 20 years, like, they're still kind of like, you're like, oh, we just surfed this morning.”
The Impact of Social Media on Surf Culture
21:44 to 25:56
Analyze how social media has changed the landscape of surfing and access to information.
“In the back of the car, then we'd go somewhere else.”
From Mountain to Coast: The Grain Journey
25:56 to 28:00
Learn about the transition from snowboarding to surfing and the founding of Grain.
“Because I tried to manage the Finster Ambassadors.”
The Heyday of Snowboarding
28:00 to 29:10
Explore the excitement and evolution of snowboarding gear and culture.
“And then we just started sending him some gear, you know.”
Show all 18 chapters
Surfing Adventures and Experiences
29:10 to 31:08
Hear about early surfing experiences and the culture of surfing trips.
“Nick had gotten into surfing way before me and some other friends.”
The Kook Box and Surfboard Evolution
31:08 to 33:30
Learn about the kook box and how surfboards have evolved over time.
“So, you know, we have a board here that, I don't know, Tom Blake was a guy who really did a lot of good things in the surf industry.”
Construction Techniques and Material Innovation
33:30 to 36:15
Discover the balance between weight and performance in surfboard construction.
“And the more we do this and we meet people and we talk with, you know, experts in their field, it's like, there's a lot of good opportunity to kind of test things and find new ways to do things.”
Community Impact and Personal Stories
36:15 to 38:36
Understand the community aspect of surfing and the personal transformations it inspires.
“I was just about to say, like, the balance between work and play, but also play for work.”
Shaping Surfboards: A Unique Perspective
38:36 to 42:00
Gain insights into the emotional and creative process of shaping wooden surfboards.
“Like, I've been waiting 10 years to come and do this.”
The Art of Shaping Surfboards
42:00 to 44:10
Explore the differences between shaping surfboards from air versus foam and the learning process involved.
“Versus, you know, this process is you're starting with nothing.”
Community and Collaboration in Surf Culture
44:10 to 45:25
Discussion on the welcoming community of surfers and artisans involved in the surf culture.
Event Promotion and Acknowledgments
45:25 to 46:24
Promotion of the upcoming Surf Free Evolution event and acknowledgments to contributors.
“we have a, yeah, maybe we have a surf re-evolution over there someday.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:03Mike Lavecchia:My name's Larry Stafford and you're listening to Hell or High Water, the Finistead podcast exploring the depths of our oceans and the resilience of the human spirit.
0:15Mike Lavecchia:Welcome back to the show. We've had a little pause while you've been off on your summer holidays. We are back with another special. This next episode was actually recorded in September of last year, in the days after the Grain Surfboard's annual Surf Re-Evolution event in Maine, New England. But we held on to it, and we're only airing it now, ahead of this year's edition back in York. Listening back to it a year on, checking the edits and some timestamps, I was transported straight back to the barn in York. Board stacked up in the eaves, smell of freshly shaved wood from the workshop next door, and the warmth of two of the surfing world's great custodians, Nick and Mike Lavecchia.
0:57Mike Lavecchia:Amongst other things, Nick and Mike are the brothers behind grain surfboards, hand-building wooden boards out of that barn in York, Maine. In this conversation, we get right into the knots and grain of things, into the richness of the surfing scene and culture up in Maine, New England, and into their formative years, a time of quiet line-ups where only the few cold and committed ventured out back, to working with Jake Burton at Burton Snowboards back in the quote-unquote heyday of the sport when they were signing kids like Sean White. We talk about what they feel their responsibility is as stewards, alongside others, of that surfing scene.
1:37Mike Lavecchia:We get into the nuances of surf photography too, the pull towards shooting the more remote, lesser-known spots, and the risk of overcrowding a line-up by doing so, Nick being one of the pioneers of cold water surfing photography and someone that we at Finistair have been in touch with and long admired for going on 15 years. He's also been one of the people leading the way on showing surf photography responsibly on social media, which leads to the obvious conversations of localism, posing the question, what if we simply took away the surf reports? And we talk about grain itself, how Mike gave life to wood, his reverie for handcrafted boards and choosing quality of life over turnover and the corporate ladder.
2:19Mike Lavecchia:About how surfing can be a catalyst for genuinely radical change, how it can shift the way you see everything, and yes, even make you quit your job. It's a beautiful conversation with two beautiful souls to which we join mid-chat with us all trying to establish exactly how many of these events they've run over the years. So excuse my lack of introductions. And here it is, last year's still very relevant conversation with Nick and Mike, the Levecchia brothers.
2:50Is that the 15th re-evolution?
2:53Mike Lavecchia:Is that the name of the name called? Re-evolution? Re-evolution. Yeah, 15th Green Surfbord's re-evolution event.
2:58Nick Lavecchia:It's somewhere around there. You know, it's foggy. Like in the beginning, what was an event? What was a party? And when did it become like a named event? Yeah. But certainly 14 years. Yeah. And before that, you know, it started out as a potluck. You know, like John Wagner would come out for a class. And we just invited people to come and everybody brought food. And it was like, that was the first party. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then like the next year we had a little bonfire. And then the next year we had a gigantic bonfire.
3:25Mike Lavecchia:More people showed up. There's a lot of wood around here for you guys to be playing the fire. Yeah.
3:29Nick Lavecchia:Yeah. And that old shop, you know, we had a fire one year. Everybody remembers this. It was our landlord. We always had him light the fire because it was his property. And we're like, you're in charge. You know, if you don't feel like we should have a fire, don't light it. But he loved to party, so he lit it, and it was just massive. And a car almost caught on fire because the DJ forgot to move his car, and it was parked next to the fire. And, of course, somebody lit it up on one side. The pile was so big you couldn't see the car on the other side. And then the fire's going, and it was like, there's a car right here.
4:03Nick Lavecchia:And running around trying to find the guy. He had to get into the car like the windows were about to shatter. But all the embers started blowing onto the hay barn. and you could see little fires on the windowsills of this old timber frame barn and it was like oh my god yeah people started running like i remember seeing people screaming and running it's probably in my head but uh and then the skies opened up and it downpoured okay and it was perfect well
4:31Mike Lavecchia:it didn't look like i have any of that risk yesterday in fact there was a guy stood by the recycling center telling you where to be so it's changed as we were just saying yeah business well businesses grow up and evolve don't they yeah right um and i mean there's nothing nothing better than a ragtag bunch of surfers putting on the gathering for surfers yeah um to to um yeah for things to spiral out of control we kind of talked about that a little bit this morning of how like maybe bring a little bit of that back to the event there's something about what happens in your infancy and like the parties and the gatherings that like obviously as you age things get a little more mature yeah maybe a little less exciting you know and it's like how do you bring a little bit of that back to this event that's like a little more rough yeah we all go to bed at nine now yeah it's like the party was just starting then everybody was out of here by eight 30 me and me and harry were we were ready we were ready but we're all everybody's obviously older the whole crew is older so it's like it's not yeah yeah i mean yeah there was a
5:28Nick Lavecchia:couple people came over they're just like where is it nobody's partying anymore and yeah i was like thank god you know yeah it's clearing out it was 8 30 and there's no food there's no it's just like Oh, yeah. It started at noon. Last year, you know, in those bonfire years, there were cows on the property, and, you know, all the cow poop would just start melting. And then everyone's just walking around in the cow field around a fire with cow poop all over their feet, you know.
5:52Mike Lavecchia:Camping.
5:53Nick Lavecchia:And, yeah, just come back in the morning to clean up, and there's just like 30 people kind of waking up out in the field. It was a real festival field. Yeah.
6:01Mike Lavecchia:It was definitely more of a festival and, like, a little more wild. Like you said, a gathering of surfers that was like, it was just a little more unhinged.
6:09Nick Lavecchia:But, you know, with that said, like, I think we're slowly coming back to it. You know, like we moved from that shop about eight years ago. And not long after that, like COVID, you know, happened. And we had to kind of stop the event for a couple of years. Like it just wasn't a thing. You didn't gather people together. And then, you know, it takes a few years to kind of build it back up again and bring some life back into it. And that's kind of what we've been doing. But, you know, it's different. We don't have the same property. We don't have quite as much space. The people are all here. And the vibe is great.
6:43Nick Lavecchia:And the community loves it. But, you know, trying to figure out how to, yeah. I feel like we're kind of at capacity, if you will. Like, this is about as big as the event can go. Because there's only so much. Almost flooded out. Right here. Totally. There's only so much parking down the road. And there's only so much space for vendors. So, you know, do you keep it at this size? and just like it's a special event for a special number of people that can come or you know and
7:10Mike Lavecchia:people come from all over right there's people coming down from vermont there's i saw some people i heard somebody came from the outer banks yeah a family drove up from north carolina you came from overseas i did well i came from overseas there you go there were a lot of there was a bunch of families in a row that came in when i was out there molly and sarah were at the gate and four of the families in a row were from like Virginia, the Outer Banks, New Jersey, and somewhere else.
7:33Nick Lavecchia:I mean, yeah, one of our old students, he comes up from Florida every year. I mean, for a lot of people, this is kind of an annual gathering, you know, it's a little reunion. But yeah, there's a lot of people from kind of Jersey, Philly, you know, kind of mid-Atlantic
7:49Mike Lavecchia:states. It's a nice time to be obviously up here. So it's a nice, whether you're bringing the family or coming to surf or not. It's just a nice getaway. And this is like a bonus to be able to have a day where you can submerge yourself here. My observation is that grain actually is that pilgrimage point for a lot of people then, particularly in New England and maybe a little bit further afield. But I guess in many ways you are kind of the caretakers of this scene and the community and the culture of surfing and the alternative little flavors within the surfing culture as well. Would that be fair to say?
8:27Mike Lavecchia:Do you feel somewhat like maybe a responsibility for how surfing is looked after or portrayed?
8:37Nick Lavecchia:I mean, I don't know.
8:39Mike Lavecchia:I would say... Have you ever stopped to think that? Not really, but I would say less of a responsibility and more of like, somebody was asking yesterday, And it's like before grain existed and before there was a community that was brought together around grain, it was just the surf community was just what it is everywhere else. It was kind of like nobody, you know, generally everybody kept to themselves. You know, it's a little macho. It's a little what it is all over the place, you know. And then Grain came in and obviously did things differently and opened the doors to everyone, including non-surfing, just kind of like made it more of a community space to come and talk.
9:24Mike Lavecchia:And whether you surf or not, it's like we all obviously enjoy working with our hands, being in the ocean, you know, and appreciating all the stuff that you have in your backyard that's, you know, often overlooked. but I think uh yeah I guess if you look back over all the years you're kind of like I don't know I feel less responsible and more like I guess you're responsible to continue yeah keeping the door open and keeping together you know I guess that's the responsibility is like you have to continue to do these things so that everybody that was here yesterday still has a place to come and do what they did yesterday or monthly or you know and that's why we've added like the talks and and thursday night you know with the food cart during the summer and it's just using this space for more stuff over the winter yeah to continue like small versions of what yesterday was yeah allow people's space to just hang out or come watch a movie or have a talk or um and that yeah that's important for surfing because surfing generally is comes from a background of being macho and yeah you know there was another i don't know the name of the gentleman but he took to the microphone yesterday and he was talking about that inclusion element to it all and um he was speaking about being an amateur surf or you know if you're into media and um he shared some really nice words around like i guess like that collective scene and how you know the lineups for everybody if you will yeah right i mean i had the the guy who came with cliff this kid shea he's kind of cliff's team manager and him and i had gone that's Cliff Capone, for anyone at home, yeah.
11:05Yeah, and Shay and I had gone on a trip for Reef
11:09Mike Lavecchia:probably 15 years ago, and I had never met him, but I went to shoot photos in Western Australia, and Shay was the team manager then, and he's very much submerged in the core surf scene, and this was his first time to New England, and he didn't put it together that he was coming to my... We haven't talked since we were in Western Australia in 2012 or whatever, and then he realized that he was here, and like I was from around here and then when he got here he was like oh this is grain like you live right there and you know he was really kind of blown away by the community factor and uh how good it felt and immediately was you know right away was like what what can he asked like what can we do next year like let's talk about how reef could be involved in any way if cliff comes back or are there other ways that we can help facilitate you know pushing your message or so it was good to see that because I know his world is very much like the CT and you know and I guess there are these different side of surfing yeah different side of surfing and you have a different side of surfing here as well right you know I look at the you know I'm familiar with the the surf scene in places like Ireland and Scotland which you know for the best part of the era you know sleepy and forgotten about and then you get you know off the back of a forecast or a swell that's incoming you know the circus descends on town in many of these places and then they're off again a couple weeks later um now obviously you've you know together through grain and everything you do with your photography of course like you've been celebrating and documenting you know the lineups up and down this stretch of the coast for a really long time and i guess there's you know this the world surfing spheres a pretty small one you know we run in pretty small circles internationally and so we see everything that goes out there and you know i don't want to get go down the hole of social media but there's you know there's there's the photography that you've taken over the years has defined this um this coastline or what it is to be a cold water surfer which again was you know 20 years ago was something that yeah definitely lesser spoken about lesser shared um yeah there's a real special there's a uniqueness to this coastline and what surfing means to a people than perhaps in california which or in cornwall england yeah yeah it's interesting i mean i definitely think there's more correlation between here and where you are it just it feels more like home and anytime you go to ireland or i'm like oh this feels i feel like this is where i belong kind of thing versus if i go to california or um and i think that comes down to feeling welcome feeling like you know you're not out of your element or you know um but yeah surfing is is and skateboard you know we grow up skateboarding and snowboarding and it's like surfing to me has more the most you know of the hardcore side to it where like you could be kind of pushed out pretty easily you know snowboarding had less of that i
14:12Nick Lavecchia:feel like growing up you know yeah yeah um off the counter cultures yeah yeah and just i remember in
14:18Mike Lavecchia:the beginning with grain starting we always had that conversation of like in my head it was like you know you could very easily easily get squashed in the first couple years and surfing and surfing meaning when grain started like this could be construed as really kooky and the industry is going to just shove you aside and it's not going to survive yeah but that wasn't the case you know well it takes like you kind of have to you know you got to develop a bit of a thick skin you know
14:46Nick Lavecchia:whatever you whenever you're a little different than everything else you know and uh you know Everybody grew up skateboarding, right? Most kids grow up skateboarding. And then we got into snowboarding at a place where snowboarding was new. And if you were a snowboarder, you were kind of the special thing.
15:04Mike Lavecchia:And this is Vermont. This is when you guys were in Burlington, right? Yeah, and Southern Vermont. Yeah, Southern Vermont. Because you were around at the time. You guys were when Jake Burton, rest in peace. Yeah, like early. Started shaping the staples, of course.
15:18Nick Lavecchia:I bought my first board from Jake in 1980 or 81. We're talking about the snurfer here? Yeah, basically. His first, yeah, Jake's first board. So snowboarding was this very inclusive thing, right? Because it's a brand new sport, and skiers didn't like snowboarders because we just pushed snow off the trails.
15:34Mike Lavecchia:It was banned on many mountains, wasn't it?
15:37Nick Lavecchia:Yeah, so there was a thing where everybody embraced, you know, literally our best friends were people that we saw from the chairlift going down the mountain on a snowboard, and you're like, who the hell is that? and uh you know then you'd meet them and then you're like you're a snowboarder i'm a snowboarder you know how kids connect strength and numbers you know where you're just kind of like you see a kid you're like oh you know your hair's funny and then five minutes later you're best friends that's how snowboarding was back then yeah and you know i think surfing i mean don't get me wrong like i i mean i love surfing but as a kid growing up surfing wasn't very inviting you know and no offense to anyone who was in the surf industry back then but like as like an you know chubby kid in the in jersey you know in the 80s like you go into a surf shop nobody really talked to you you know nobody was trying to get you in the water and teach you how to surf like now there's surf schools everywhere and it's you know it's it's easy to get out there we have friends that visited from vermont you know and this 12 year old girl is hooked she just got here yesterday got in the water yesterday and this morning woke up i'm going to take a lesson like you know so there's opportunities and it you know it's fun and it's people are supportive you know and it wasn't always like that so maybe in a way you know grain you know we just feel this responsibility to like bring people together and make it fun you know and share kind of all the things that we enjoy
17:05Mike Lavecchia:about it why do you think i mean of the quote-unquote extreme sports like skateboarding snowboarding surfing why do you think that surfing has that um legacy attitude kind of thing a little my theory is it's because you know waves are not finite yeah finite resource yeah a skate park you can you know you know take your turns yeah i mean the golf course isn't going anywhere the tennis courts aren't going anywhere like you can play those for as long as you want
17:34Nick Lavecchia:I mean, if you find a skate park, you're, like, telling all your friends about it. Like, let's go. You know, if you find a good wave, I mean, people that we know, you know, for 20 years, like, they're still kind of like, you're like, oh, we just surfed this morning. Like, oh, up north somewhere. You're like, what the? You know?
17:49Mike Lavecchia:Yeah. I mean, it's the same as no friends on a powder day. It's the same thing. It's kind of like. Sure. If you're up and you're by the lift station, you're fine. Yeah. Right. So that has, you know, and then if you take that mentality over however many years, it becomes like that's where the macho comes from. That's where they're like, yeah. I mean, even Jeff said it last night in his talk. He's just like whatever he said when he's like, just go find somewhere else to surf. He's like, everybody loves surfing, like love to have people surf. Just go find another beach. Just go find a different place.
18:17Mike Lavecchia:And it's like, but so being, being, uh, the people or the organization that is the opposite of that, I'm sure, you know, it can and does rub people the other, the wrong way where it's like, you know, um, yeah, we don't want, don't invite everybody to learn how to surf at the end of the road. Right.
18:40Nick Lavecchia:Right.
18:40Mike Lavecchia:Cause now, you know, so it's like, you're cautious of that. I've been cautious of it my whole career of obviously in photography. Yeah. You run that all day long with magazines and brands over the years of like being very conscious of not exposing too much. And, you know, how did you how did you do that? How did you tread those waters then? I mean, of course, like, yeah, you would never post anything or, you know, if you were submitting stuff to them. I mean, the magazine seemed pretty good at the time of like if I was submitting stuff and they asked for they would ask for locations and they're like, if you don't want to say anything, that's fine.
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19:13Mike Lavecchia:We can just say New England. And I'm like, that's great. or you can say Canada I don't even care you know maybe like you know you or maybe who knows there's
19:22Nick Lavecchia:a I feel like there's a time when people would just start to like part of your photography style is like not showing anything in the background you know that gives away a clue because you can look at a wave right I mean if you've been surfing a long time you can look at a wave and almost know where that wave is I don't know how there's like some weird way you can identify like oh yeah that's and uh you know obviously if there's a lighthouse in the background you automatically know where the wave is so you know i think there's a lot of people that have gotten more creative with like capturing surfing in a really pure way you know while also just like not showing anything other than like a rock and a pine tree and there might be a handful of people
20:02Mike Lavecchia:that know that tree but most people can't figure it out no and i i mean i i definitely it's it's a hard line to walk because you I understand the the you know the real feelings behind like not just wanting it to be something that is so so crowded that like you know I mean there are plenty days when you go down and you're just like ah it's crowd no one ever used to surf here and now look you know and it's like somebody could be like well thanks to grain being right up the street like yeah no one ever surfed here before but now everybody does you know and yeah I mean that's a hard it's a hard thing but also to the flip side if you're someone that surfs year-round or you skate or you snowboard it's like there we still get so much time in the ocean yeah there it's just
20:48Nick Lavecchia:a non-issue you know where we serve there there could be 25 people in the water but they're all people that were here last night you know like everybody you know water gets cold i mean there's nature filters people out so yeah in july i counted 50 people in the water in
21:05Mike Lavecchia:St Agnes, Travorn's Cove, right above the workshops where we are, Wednesday, four o 'clock last week. And it was, that's a lot of people for actually what is quite a small cove, you know, pretty much one takeoff. Yeah, gotcha. And, you know, that area around there used to be called the Badlands back in the day. So that was, you know, around from there to Porth Tower and to Chapel Porth. Yeah. All of which now have wave reports and, you know. Yeah, right, right. I mean, we are put that that little spot on the map for sure. Right. When I was at university in Plymouth, you know, we would only ever go to that spot if there were just two of us going in the car.
21:42Mike Lavecchia:If we were tripping across and there was five. Right. In the back of the car, then we'd go somewhere else. Yeah.
21:47Nick Lavecchia:There's still places like that here, you know, where you're just like, yeah, I'm not going to I'm not going to load up the car and show up at this spot because it's just not right. Yeah. And if they find it, fine. But I'm not going to like. Yeah.
21:59Mike Lavecchia:I mean, I think, yeah, for anything, any sport or, you know, as long as we're here and we're all doing it, we are all, if you want to say, we're all at some fault to exposing it. I mean, social media is obviously a huge thing, but like surf shops, you know, everything is getting more and more popular and more, you know, it's not one thing that is making surfing per se too crowded. you know it's a collection of of everybody you know doing it together and uh and that's not to say that there aren't still places that you can still just go and get your own little wave with a friend yeah i mean you just gotta look a little further yeah which is fine that like that's like all right well now you're gonna get to adventure a little bit more so and and you know 10 15 you 20 years ago, before these tools that we all had on our phones, who was to know what the lay of the land would be today with surf mapping and forecasting and Google Earth?
23:01Mike Lavecchia:That kind of predated before. I remember seeing your stuff on Instagram back before anyone really knew what Instagram was. In fact, the imagery that you were sharing at the time, I think I read it in the surface journal article it spoke about like no one had really shared that stuff like in that digestible format before before you did and I I think in a way that has now been replicated and mimicked in in lovely ways but but before that I I definitely feel you were a pioneer in that early social media phase where it was pure yeah and it was you know celebrating the beauty of surfing and the your surroundings the environment that you're in yeah i mean i think it was there's a few of us that definitely have always approached it that way and and brian nevins who's another photographer here and and uh and i think that comes from being as you know amazed at where you live in the environment as as much as and you want to surf right why would you not work you know i mean it's like going on a trip you live in yosemite and you're taking photos there you share it right exactly and it's like that shouldn't be like pushed down and like you know that's like why would you squash that you know um but yeah i mean it's it's uh it's evolved so much over the years and uh you know somebody was saying yesterday i don't i don't know who it was but like that there was like talks of like you know if surf line could did just go away or like somebody was saying like there have been talks of them just like shutting down and like what if there were you know what if we just took away all the you know the reports so that you actually did have to like figure stuff out on your own and pay become more more of a weather nerd and really pay attention you know and there's obviously other tools out there but i was chatting to uh forget his surname but bruce who um runs low pressure which used to be the storm rider guys right so storm rider the world world volume two europe you know and like i remember let's say cast my mind back to like 2003 or something my first european trip you took that you post-it noted you wrote you circled stuff it would tell you the ties it would work best on it i mean that but it exposed every surf spot in the world right it was very i have a bunch of photos in those guys i bet yeah i remember being like wow they those they were printed surf guides that did not miss a spot no i was like how do they even know where all these spots are yeah you know and really like it's like they already knew the reefs and knew yeah that was that was well ahead of its time right yeah it really was i think that and i think my understanding is they they've tried for a while to like digitize that so i have i don't know if i'm this is a press release worthy or embargoed here but it's um i'll check with bruce but um the uh you know of it was their catalog of surf yes yeah yeah no i mean obviously the the internet and digital everything has just made it easier and more at everybody's fingertips at any moment to be able to know the wind's gonna switch in five minutes like get down there you know that was not the case like you actually had to pay attention and uh i don't know i really like the side of being a weather nerd and just following you know what your local like that's why i love being here through all the seasons because you get to really see what happens you know environmentally and with the weather throughout the whole year and how much it changes um so when did you guys make the move from mountain to coast and yeah how did grain first come to be then and i'd speak about grain to both of you because you know this is such a great family setup the whole thing um yeah i mean
26:52Nick Lavecchia:we moved here in spring of 2005 from vermont you know we were all all even my brother vin um we're living up in burlington you know none of us were at burton at the time but you know
27:07Mike Lavecchia:you all did a stint at burton snowboards we all did a stint yeah yeah at burton or at you know companies that were part of you and you you might you manage the team team riders and stuff yeah i
27:18Nick Lavecchia:I was like, I was the first. How did you do that?
27:20Mike Lavecchia:Because I tried to manage the Finster Ambassadors. No, yeah.
27:23Nick Lavecchia:No, God, that was a hard job. It's a tough job. I mean, the great thing was like, I was the B team. I was the first official B team manager. I don't know if it's still a name, but like. Who was on the books back in those days? Oh, like Jeff Anderson was coming in. Sean White was a little kid at the time. Okay.
27:43Mike Lavecchia:I mean, he was like eight at the time. Oh, yeah. You signed him on. You win.
27:47Nick Lavecchia:Yeah, a lot of those guys. He signed Sean White. Yeah. So the sales rep from Southern California had been seeing Sean, like, skate parks and stuff. And then she kind of was like, we need to, you know, you need to check this kid out. And then we just started sending him some gear, you know. But, you know, but then the A-team, who I helped with, but we had another guy who was kind of the A-team manager. Obviously, that was like Craig Kelly and Jeff Brushy and Keith Wallace and Jason Ford, you know, that whole crew. um randy gaitano who's a good friend of ours he was on the b team anyway i got to kind of like travel the country and go to events and demos and do photo shoots and kind of be like we're you know let's take you out to tahoe for this shoot you know and they were just like high school kids so it was really fun um but uh it was the heyday of snowboarding for sure right yeah and sims right and it was yeah i don't know how do you classify the heyday you know
28:46Mike Lavecchia:Well, now looking back, it seems like the most exciting time.
28:50Nick Lavecchia:Yeah, it's like the evolution of the sport was every year you were just like, these bindings completely changed, and the boots are so much more comfortable, or the boards have side cut now, whatever it was. Yeah, so every year things were evolving. So it was. It was just like crazy times. But, yeah, anyway, we were all living in Burlington. Nick had gotten into surfing way before me and some other friends. And, you know, we used to go to Cape Cod on like a little camping trip as a group, like 20 of us, you know, before everybody had kids. And we'd camp at a campground and just go to the beach every day and surf.
29:29Nick Lavecchia:And I got into surfing down there. I just rented a board and, you know, tried it. And, you know, I'm a terrible surfer. But I love it. We all are, right?
29:40Mike Lavecchia:What? 25 years I've been doing it. It's still surfing. Oh, yeah. It's just terrible. same as golf no they oh yeah the golf is the podcast part two we'll get into that yeah but but yeah we we we said yesterday the comparables between surf and golf the mind games the progression arc the whole thing anyway but i mean i've always been around the water like i'm a water
30:00Nick Lavecchia:guy i'm a boat person and so i was like surf this is a really easy way this is like the the most cost-effective way to enjoy getting out on the water you know you don't you know what i mean you can get out and paddle you can see new places you can travel and you know that was kind of a turning
30:16Mike Lavecchia:point um i mean with your just to go back to the boards for a second because you know they are and we've got them hanging from the ceilings we've got old ribbed i mean what i don't even know that's a tom blake frame from an original kook box it's framed basically of that board the kook box which yeah i i know what the kook box is but for maybe maybe for a listener at home what's what's the kook box i mean kook can be a derogatory term in surfing a light derogatory and we're all kooks
30:46Nick Lavecchia:right yeah yeah but um what's the kook box i mean kook box is kind of like it's like the first you know is that transition when boards when they first started building hollow wood surfboards you know they were boxy and square because you didn't know how to build things out of wood and make them you know shapely and and uh so yeah they're basically the first hollow surfboards that were built with plywood and, you know, kind of modern glues and things like that. So, you know, we have a board here that, I don't know, Tom Blake was a guy who really did a lot of good things in the surf industry. Some people maybe don't think he did good things because, you know, maybe it would be better if we didn't have fins in surfboards.
31:25Nick Lavecchia:But, you know, he was a guy who...
31:27Mike Lavecchia:There's a few purists out there still who like to go with Fairfield Free Friction, right? Yeah, exactly.
31:34Nick Lavecchia:um but yeah cookbox is kind of the beginning it's like where we kind of consider our roots you know that's where like surfing took a turn that we didn't like you know and we kind of thought it should go a different direction but with and and with with wood i guess there's
31:51Mike Lavecchia:i mean i look around and i saw some of the old boards you've you've got next door in the in the bay in the shaping bay like that that kind of we talk about the at that arc of like each board you must be have been refined each board one after the next must have just been a you must have seen the changes happen quite quickly right yes like learning what works what doesn't how to refine um and last night you showed me around around the bay and you've you've got cork rails now on
32:20Nick Lavecchia:several of them um yeah i mean for a long time you know our original construction quote unquote we call it you know it's like our hollow rail that's like how we first started felt like the absolute you know perfect way to build a surfboard it's it's all wood they're built traditionally they're you know they're beautiful they're a lot of really nice fine woodworking that goes into them and nothing changed for a long time that's what we taught in classes and sold us kits and we let's still like our probably our most favorite way to build a surfboard and i think it's still kind of maybe the lightest kind of construction that we have so far um but but you guys aren't in
33:00Mike Lavecchia:to make the lightest boards in the world are you no no no but we're in to find it like a good
33:05Nick Lavecchia:balance yeah you know um because with weight comes you know many benefits yeah absolutely so we're not trying one of them down a big face it flies right yeah but at the same time like you know for the first 10 years everybody would pick up a board oh these are a little heavy and then you have to yeah well put them in the water and the weight goes away you know and and then then you realize all the benefits of a little extra weight. They're not 50 pounds, but if a board that you might think should be 20 is 23 pounds, sure, it takes a little bit of adjusting, but the reality is it's going to make no difference in the water except it's going to add speed and momentum and it's going to do well in choppy conditions and all that.
33:49Mike Lavecchia:I always thought if you went the other way around and that's what people surfed and then you got on a foam board, and it was more like what if that was the discussion like oh this feels light and chattery
34:00Nick Lavecchia:well every time you know you're like a foam board i would be like exactly i can't move this thing's just so light and like no life to it there's no life and you know you have to consistently paddle to keep it moving where this like two or three strokes and that board will go 15 feet you know um but ever since you know i would say like around covid we basically have taken a whole different mentality where we're just like, there's all these great materials. And the more we do this and we meet people and we talk with, you know, experts in their field, it's like, there's a lot of good opportunity to kind of test things and find new ways to do things.
34:37Nick Lavecchia:And, um, you know, for us, it's less about how do we efficiently manufacture something? It's like, how do we do something cool? How do we tell cool stories? How do we collaborate with people? But also I'll always like how do we make sure we're still able to share this with people yeah you know so you know that that process kind of moving through our green rail boards which is our kind of recycled plastic rail like that was a huge that all was during covid and you know we were able to reduce the price of our boards and we sold a lot more boards all of a sudden it's still a small number in the grand scheme of things but um it made it kind of fun again because they're like we don't want to do the same thing every day right we all want to kind of evolve ourselves and keep our minds active so coming up with this way to build boards in different ways and trying things you know you know every day at the end of the day at like four in the afternoon we'll just stop and be like what about this you know and then we'll do a quick test and then the next morning we're all just so anxious to come in here and like unclamp the test and that's great see what it looks like And then you're like, okay, let's go to the computer and do some changes.
35:45Nick Lavecchia:And yeah, so there's passion there. And if we were doing the same thing every day, I think we'd have turnover. But people that work here stay here because there's not a lot of opportunity to move up the corporate ladder. But there's opportunity to like, you know, expand your thinking and try boards and go surf and, you know, use your hands and just experiment. You know, there's a lot of value in that. Yeah.
36:15Mike Lavecchia:Quality of life is high in that regard. I was just about to say, like, the balance between work and play, but also play for work. Yeah. I mean, it's huge. You can't put a number on that. And yes, everybody needs to pay the bills and everything, but there's no comparison to living a life of like a corporate life at the computer all day versus getting your hands dirty and thinking and surfing and playing and kicking a wicker ball. And it just, yeah. So that is, that's the salary that is like, yeah, there's no end to that. If that's how you get to spend your days, that's, it's pretty great. Was this the plan all along?
36:54Mike Lavecchia:uh i mean i would you know no no i mean you didn't there was no like oh let's start a wooden
37:00Nick Lavecchia:surfboard business for mike it was yeah we always used to say this was like an experiment i mean every year would be like i mean this is still an experiment we don't know if this is really
37:08Mike Lavecchia:going to keep going you know and now you know i think it'd be fair for me to say like that's kind of what finisterre has been for for tom as a founder and an innovator and you know someone with you know creative thought and mind right you know how do i do this how do i do that thing differently how do i you know how do i nurture a community of surfers and ocean advocates if you will and it really is like i mean i have felt that all along is like and more so as the years go by that it's it really is just less about the boards and more about process. It's everything else. It's like the event is, you know, that's like the cat.
37:51Mike Lavecchia:It's just bringing people in. It's waking up every day and pushing technology and, you know, and inspiring people that are like, wow, these guys, you know, like the doors are still open. Nobody's rich, but this is what we do every day, you know, and you still eating at the end of the day and going surfing and, you know, yes, the boards are the end product, but they're not, it's not the, the only thing I think what keeps everybody coming back and keeps these guys inspired is waking up in an inspiring place and coming in and knowing that like you could kind of do anything
38:24Nick Lavecchia:you know yeah when you hear you know the connections that you make with people and the relationships you know the yeah the boards are kind of the that's the that's that's just like the vehicle for all these other things you know when you talk to people that are like Like, I've been waiting 10 years to come and do this. Or I come to this event every year and it's just like our annual pilgrimage. Like, you know, that's the thing that keeps you going, you know. And, yes, like building better surfboards and coming up with new shapes, that's a, you know, Nolan is passionate about designing boards. And he's like, you know.
39:01Mike Lavecchia:And Nolan is?
39:02Nick Lavecchia:Nolan is, well, he's our longest employee now. And he's kind of like our head board designer, teacher's workshop. Yeah, he's been here a long time. And so he, you know, just loves surfing, loves shapes, loves design. He's kind of really embraced the design process. So he's the guy who now kind of sits at the computer as little as possible, but when he has to, to kind of like come up with shapes, come up with new ideas. But, yeah, like Nick said, I think the boards are, you know, it's the fun. I don't know. It's the fun part, but it's really what the boards bring to us. You know, that's the thing that keeps us going.
39:44Mike Lavecchia:And people that have come and taken classes over the years from day one have generally all said the same thing, where, like, this was one of the best things I've ever done. And to actually go home with a finished surfboard at the end is, like, the biggest bonus. I imagine you get people who've never done anything with their hands, right? Yeah, I think they've seen every type of...
40:06Nick Lavecchia:Yeah, there's a lot of things. There's a wide mix, but most people have never done anything with their hands. And some people, there have been people that have left here who have needed a life change, and maybe this was just the thing to put them over the edge, and they've quit their jobs. Isn't it funny how surfing does that to people? Surfing does it, woodworking does it.
40:25Mike Lavecchia:I think more so than snowboarding and skateboarding.
40:28Nick Lavecchia:Well, you could say it for us. Like, I wasn't a surfer. I barely consider myself a surfer. But, like, I quit everything and changed my whole life and moved.
40:36Mike Lavecchia:To the ocean.
40:37Nick Lavecchia:Because I surfed six times on Cape Cod, you know?
40:41Mike Lavecchia:Yeah.
40:41Nick Lavecchia:So it's weird what it does to you. And, you know, we had a guy yesterday. His whole family, they drove here from Jersey to come to the event. And he walked in, and I recognized him. We started talking, and his son was with him. His son was, like, 15. Ten years ago, they came and built a board together. the son was five their whole family camped at our old shop for you know a week that's when our classes were a week long and he built the board and he never glassed it he just life got busy they have like four kids now and he said just over the last month he finally glassed the board
41:13Mike Lavecchia:and brought it up here to the event and surfed it yeah just cool stuff i remember buying the um in fact i still have them and i still i i'm i don't know i'm scared to shape surfboard there's something about i've just not done it because i've been surrounded by shapers surfboard shop owners and surfers for for long enough now to probably have done it and it's but i've still got like the uh the john carper shaping and glassing 101 dvds still in cellophane i just don't dare open i'm scared right but it's so it's you know to then shape something out of wood yeah which some maybe in my mind feels like there's probably more margin for error at times um interesting that the word shaping a wooden surfboard can feel more accessible than going to
41:58Nick Lavecchia:shape something more traditional i'd be i'm totally scared of shaping a foam board i've
42:03Mike Lavecchia:never done it and i don't want to do it i think the you know you guys whoever hit on it yesterday but there's something to be said about shaping something from air from nothing up versus someone handing you a blank foam blank yeah and saying okay like let's start to shape a surfboard and And so you've already got a physical thing that you're now whittling away product where you know in your mind you can't get it back. Yes. Versus, you know, this process is you're starting with nothing. I've never thought about that. It's completely different, isn't it? Yeah. And you're now taking a frame, adding wood to it, adding a top plank and bottom planks, adding rails.
42:37Mike Lavecchia:And then now you've got this big box that you're now comfortable with and you start slowly shaping it down. Yeah, like you actually understand.
42:44Nick Lavecchia:You know, when you get into the shaping process, you built it so you know what's there, you know.
42:49Mike Lavecchia:Yeah, you know what's inside.
42:50Nick Lavecchia:there's no mystery like you're like oh yeah i fully understand every piece of wood and i know
42:55Mike Lavecchia:how big that is um yeah there's a difference there maybe that's what makes it more accessible to some people you know it's definitely more romantic yeah i mean yeah you know the other
43:05Nick Lavecchia:thing about woodworking is like you only learn through your mistakes so building a board you can fix anything right and the best boards are the ones that have imperfections you know we've nobody's ever built a perfect surfboard you know not a foam shaper not a wood board builder and uh that's what makes them perfect you know is that they're made by hand and um you know no two boards are the same and if you made a board and you didn't mess up at all you didn't really learn anything you know you gotta you gotta make some mistakes so you have to kind of get out of your comfort zone use some things you're not comfortable with overcut something and okay now let's figure out how to fix it and you know teaching it's just about confidently showing people giving people the like space to explore and try things and learn how to use a tool and how to hold something the right way but like give it you know them knowing like oh he's if something goes wrong we're going to fix it it's going to be perfectly fine you know if i cut my tail off like okay we're going to just we're going to make this beautiful tail block and at the end of the day that's going to
44:07Mike Lavecchia:be your favorite part of the board right yeah measure twice cut once yeah exactly well speaking of surfing there's only so long you can speak for the surfing without actually going surfing and i know there's ways down the road yeah yeah um so and you guys have just slogged a two two day weekend um putting together what was something really really beautiful to to witness as a visitor um actually really nice just to come into this thing not 12 hours before and then be amongst a really welcoming community of surfers and crafts folk and artisans and musicians and um really warm welcoming scene you've got here that you know you guys are clearly really great custodians of um so um yeah thanks for having us and having us along for the ride
44:51Nick Lavecchia:yeah so thankful to you guys for being here yeah helping us put the event on you know we couldn't couldn't do it without you guys and you know finisterre just feels like part of the family
45:02Mike Lavecchia:and and well i feel like we have known you guys for you know from a far but yeah totally that's
45:07Nick Lavecchia:part of 12 plus years yeah it's just yeah i feel like the values you know we all align so well and and uh you know we love what you guys are doing and personally i love the kind of maritime connections that you know finistair has like on a personal level i just like really
45:21Mike Lavecchia:admire all the roots in your brand man that shared atlantic ocean yeah yeah yeah well maybe we have a, yeah, maybe we have a surf re-evolution over there someday.
45:32Nick Lavecchia:Yeah, UK re-evolution.
45:33Mike Lavecchia:We'll make that happen. There you go. You heard it first.
45:35Nick Lavecchia:Yeah. Amazing.
45:36Mike Lavecchia:Hey, well, thanks, guys. Absolute pleasure. Thank you. Cheers. Thank you for being here. Well, I hope you enjoyed that one. That was Nick and Mike Levecchia of Grain Surfboards. Thank you both again for having and hosting us and making us feel part of the crew. A through-and-through family business. Homegrown, hand-built and hardcore. So the countdown is on. Surf Free Evolution is back this September 19th in York, Maine, celebrating 100 years of hollow wooden surfboards and Finistere is proud and privileged to be running alongside it again as a supporter in some small way. If you are anywhere near York, get yourself there.
46:14Mike Lavecchia:Thanks again for Gareth and the team over at Chatterbox Audio for stitching the show together. Sound design by CJ Mirror. And thank you for listening to Hella High Water. Until next time, happy hunting. Thank you.
From the publisher
Tune in as we sit down with two mainstays of the East Coast surf scene in the US, Mike and Nick Lavecchia. Speaking from the shaping barn in York, Maine, where they produce hand-crafted wooden boards for their brand Grain Surfboards in York, we dove into the richness of the surfing scene and culture up in Maine and New England, and how their formative years shaped their path. As one of the pioneers of cold water surf, we dove into Nick’s portfolio and the nuances of shooting in the dark cold North Atlantic, as well as touching on their years of quiet line ups, working for Jake Burton at the eponymous Burton Snowboards, and now to their position as custodians of the culture. Join the conversation as we dive in to get the inside line on another unique cold water surf community.
