Immigration lawyers report 'chaos' over Trump’s new green card rules

0:00Richard Herman:Support for Here and Now Anytime comes from MathWorks, creator of MATLAB and Simulink software, to design and develop engineered systems, accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science. Learn more at mathworks.com. WBOR Podcasts, Boston.

0:20Ricardo Kaulessar:We're just getting tons of emails and phone calls from existing clients, just shocked at what this new memo is saying. New immigration rules say some people applying for green cards have to do so from abroad. Immigration advocates say the change is intended to stoke fear and confusion. It's Tuesday, May 26th, and this is Here and Now Anytime from NPR and WBR. I'm Chris Bentley.

0:55Ricardo Kaulessar:Today on the show, three snapshots of the Trump administration's immigration crackdown. We'll hear about a hunger strike at a detention center in New Jersey, where Senator Andy Kim says he was pepper sprayed by federal agents while protesting. Congressman Rob Menendez said he was among several politicians denied entry to the facility. The reason they want to make this as hard as possible, they won't let the governor in, is because they don't want us to tell the stories of what's happening inside. Also, a new report from the Brookings Institution estimates more than 146 ,000 children have been separated from their families since the start of Trump's second presidency.

1:34Ricardo Kaulessar:About a third of them were younger than six years old. We'll dig into the report in just about 10 minutes. But first, a change in the green card process is sowing panic and confusion among some legal residents of the United States. 600 ,000 foreigners apply every year for a green card, according to the Department of Homeland Security. Those with legal status to be here, a work permit or a visa, could usually apply for and complete that process inside the U.S., but not anymore. A new rule announced by the Trump administration last Friday says people will need to apply for a green card from abroad.

2:14Ricardo Kaulessar:It's not clear if they have to stay there for the entire process. That includes people married to U.S. citizens, holders of work and student visas, refugees, and asylum seekers. Richard Herman is a longtime immigration attorney based in Cleveland. He tells Indira Lakshmanan he's been flooded with calls from clients. Yes. I mean, over the last few days, we're just getting tons of emails and phone calls from existing clients and other people that are just shocked at what this new memo is saying and asking how does it impact their case. And, yeah, there's a lot of anxiety and fear out there right now.

2:52Richard Herman:So how does that affect clients of yours who may be married to U.S. citizens and even have children in this country? Does that mean they might have to leave their spouse and their children because they're still pending on their green card application?

3:07Ricardo Kaulessar:It's possible, but it's not mandatory. So the longstanding law says that adjustment of status, applying for a green card while you're in the U.S., is available. And the U.S. immigration may grant approval. May is the operative term. And so it has always been discretionary. What this memo does, though, is it's a game changer. It reframes the whole process by saying that adjustment of status is now disfavored. It's an extraordinary remedy. In other words, there's a preference and an expectation that you're going to leave the United States unless you can prove that the equities are in your favor.

3:47Ricardo Kaulessar:For example, what is the hardship of leaving the United States? Do you have community ties? What about your tax history, your volunteer work? I mean, this now is going to require a lot more work, not only for immigration officers to adjudicate what are relatively simple green card cases, but now for the applicants and their attorneys.

4:08Richard Herman:Well, I can imagine that for people who are already in the green card process, who are already waiting for their approval, that this creates a lot of uncertainty because they don't know if they can stay here or not, having already done the process. But for those who have not yet applied for a green card, does this mean that those clients of yours, are you advising them that they're going to have to leave the country and make that application from abroad?

4:33Ricardo Kaulessar:Well, we actually have clients in queue to be filed shortly that fit that pattern. And our advice to them is to continue forward. You know, for example, if you're an international student and you just graduated from Boston University and you're going to marry your girlfriend who you've been dating for three years and your girlfriend's an American citizen, the law has for decades contemplated that that individual should be allowed to file for adjustment of status. This memo may change that, but I expect there to be litigation in federal courts, And I think that this memo will be narrowed down considerably over time.

5:11Ricardo Kaulessar:So we're advising people to proceed, but with the extra proof in their case to show the equities in their history here, their good moral character, their work accomplishments and that sort of thing.

5:22Richard Herman:All right. Well, we've reached out to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services for clarification on this. There's a law firm here in Massachusetts that has put out a statement saying that they believe these changes are an illegal interpretation of the law and they're willing to sue over it because they don't want their clients to have to leave the country to do their applications. It sounds like you're telling your clients to proceed as they were planning from within this country. But is your firm or others that you know of planning to join in legal action?

5:58Ricardo Kaulessar:My firm is not planning on litigation at this moment, but this has been the MO of the Trump administration to throw hand grenades into a broken immigration system that's already broken and in disrepair already. From a logistical standpoint, there are somewhere between 1.2 to 1.8 million adjustment cases pending right now.

6:22Richard Herman:Wow.

6:22Ricardo Kaulessar:And the embassies only do about 500 to 600 ,000 immigrant visa cases a year. So to shift huge quantities over to the embassies, which don't have the infrastructure to handle this, is not only cruel to families. I mean, people that are married to American citizens, some of the citizens may be veterans. They may have U.S. citizens and children. Not always are cruel, but it also is highly, highly inefficient. All right.

6:52Richard Herman:So in other words, you're saying that what this is doing to the process of applying is essentially gumming up a process that is already slow and having trouble. Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah.

7:05Ricardo Kaulessar:I mean, we need a 21st century immigration system that not only respects American families, but also makes immigration work for the American economy. When we have over a million adjustment of status cases pending, guess what? Those folks have work permits. They could be doctors. They could be engineers at Google. They got to leave the United States. This is ridiculous. You know, these are folks, these workers have played by the rules. This is changing the game in the middle of the game.

7:34Richard Herman:This is chaos. Richard Herman is an immigration attorney in Cleveland, Ohio. He's also the author of Immigrant Inc., Why Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Driving the New Economy. Richard, thanks so much for joining us.

7:48Ricardo Kaulessar:Thank you, Indira.

7:58Ricardo Kaulessar:Coming up next, we check in on Newark, New Jersey, where crowds have gathered at an ICE detention center to protest conditions inside. The state's Democratic governor said she was denied access to the facility, which she said raised, quote, serious questions about what they are trying to hide from public view, end quote. After the break, Indira talks to a reporter on the scene.

8:27Richard Herman:Support for this podcast and the following message come from strawberry.me. If you could go back and talk to your younger self, would you tell yourself that you have a job that truly makes you happy? Many people are stuck in jobs they've outgrown or never really wanted. A career coach from strawberry.me can help you move on to something you actually love. Benefit from having a dedicated coach in your corner and get 50 % off your first coaching session at strawberry.me slash NPR. In Newark, New Jersey, protesters are still gathered outside an ICE detention facility a day after chaotic clashes with federal agents.

9:06Richard Herman:Protesters and Democratic politicians have been showing solidarity with detained migrants who launched a hunger strike against inhumane conditions, according to them, last Friday. New Jersey Senator Andy Kim says he was pepper sprayed after he tried to de-escalate the standoff between ICE agents and protesters. Ricardo Colasar is a reporter with the Bergen Record newspaper and NorthJersey.com, and he joins me now from outside the Delaney Hall Detention Center in Newark.

9:35Ricardo Kaulessar:Thank you, Indira. How are you doing?

9:36Richard Herman:Well, I'm fine. Thank you. What's the situation like outside the ICE detention center today? And have there been more clashes with federal agents like we saw yesterday?

9:47Ricardo Kaulessar:No, when I got here this morning, apparently I missed a little scuffling between agents and some protesters. One of the protesters told me that they were, you know, apparently got too close. And I guess they were yelling at them and they just pushed them back a bit. But I kept missing that. And then apparently, I guess another one has happened a while ago, but I've been trying to write and do other things. Sure.

10:13Richard Herman:Well, there is certainly a lot of footage of the protests and some of the protesters being dragged by a scarf around the neck and that sort of thing. Delaney Hall is a 1 ,000 bed facility that's privately owned by the GEO Group, one of the largest private prison companies in the world. The detainees are alleging rotten food, terrible conditions. What do we know factually about those conditions inside?

10:41Ricardo Kaulessar:The information, you know, if you're talking to the wife of one of the people who was leading the protest, you know, Gabriella Soto, whose husband Martin Soto was transferred out of here. She said that her husband and even relayed this in a phone call that I heard was that they were getting green sausages. The milk has been usually congealed in chunks and they've had to eat it and things like that. And you have DHS claiming that they're treated very well.

11:13Richard Herman:Well, Senator Andy Kim of New Jersey said he was able to get inside of the ICE facility on Saturday. He wrote on social media that he saw rancid milk being given to detainees. What else did he say about what he saw inside? Well, he talked about, you know, that he also met with people.

11:33Ricardo Kaulessar:You know, it's heartbreaking. I mean, one of them was a woman with a four-month-old baby who was not allowed to pump breast milk. It was only permitted to see her infant once or twice. So the baby, I guess they brought her to visit, and then she can't feed her and things like that. You have an 18-year-old girl who's supposed to be at her high school graduation, and she's in there. Things like that. So those are things that he observed when he was in there. and also the medical treatment that they're supposed to get, which is things I've heard too. You know, they don't have enough doctors to tend to all these people and the numbers change but you get anywhere in there from 680 to 750 and then sometimes up to 900 which is what they, you know, usually count as a daily population and you have like, I think the last time they said six medical professionals that's just not going to do.

12:29Ricardo Kaulessar:You know, so yeah. Yeah. So, you know, so that's what he's, I do think some of the things that he dealt with and observed, but it's something that has been ongoing. So, yeah.

12:39Richard Herman:Okay. Well, I apologize to listeners for, you know, the street noise and it sounds like maybe some protester noise in the background. We know that about 300 detainees participated in the hunger strike that began on Friday. Is that hunger strike still going on?

12:54Ricardo Kaulessar:Yes, it is. Rob Menendez, who just made a visit, reiterated that it's still going on. And, you know, I didn't get such a crazy press gaggle that I didn't get as many details as I'd like, but he did say it's still going on. And there's been no indication that it's going to dissipate anytime soon.

13:17Richard Herman:All right. Right. Well, tensions have flared over plans to transfer a detainee whose wife is pregnant. Do you know if he was moved?

13:27Ricardo Kaulessar:Yes. Well, that's what I was told by Rob Menendez, that he was moved to the Elizabeth Detention Center. And that is all I have.

13:36Richard Herman:And you're referring to Congressman Rob Menendez there. Okay. Last question. How are ICE and the Department of Homeland Security responding to claims of inhumane conditions inside the facility?

13:47Ricardo Kaulessar:Oh, yeah. They're saying last thing I got from them was, let's see here. They said that, you know, all detainees are provided with three meals a day, clean water, etc. And that they're saying that these folks have higher detention standards than most U.S. prisons, than other after that call U.S. citizens.

14:09Richard Herman:Ricardo Colasar is a reporter with the Bergen Record.

14:12Ricardo Kaulessar:Thank you for talking to me. I appreciate it. Thanks.

14:23Ricardo Kaulessar:Coming up, there's been such a whirlwind of executive orders and federal actions over immigration since President Trump returned to office last year that it's been hard to keep track of some basic figures. Researchers at the Brookings Institution tried to count how many children have been separated from their families during that time and found the federal government's statistics were, quote, almost certainly a substantial undercount, end quote. Indira has more after the break.

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