Espresso: Seth Godin - Revealing The Greatest Positioning Secret of All Time

0:04I want to start by talking about customers because I am fascinated by food brands I'm fascinated by bespoke things by founder driven organizations and where so many of them get into trouble is a lot of the The thing about trees is trees, if all their seeds actually germinated and grew, there would be nothing but forest all the time. Almost all seeds fail. The only ones that grow are the ones that land in the right soil, in the right spot. and too often because the entrepreneur in the food industry begins with well everyone eats and then they move on to and what i make is delicious they follow that with so everyone should want what i make and so the tree i want to talk about the smallest tree you can imagine pretty much tree-wise is a Brussels sprout.

1:13Now, Brussels sprouts, they grow on these stock things, and they were one of the first items on David Chang's menu at Momofuku. We used to go to Momofuku, my two kids, my wife and I, on Saturdays. It's a 25-minute, half an hour drive for me in the electric car down to Manhattan. We would get there when they opened, before they were famous, before the reviews and we would sit at the counter. And I'm pretty sure it was David at the griddle. I'm not confident, but I'm pretty sure it was. And I haven't eaten meat in 35 years. And I would say, I would like the Brussels sprouts, please leave off the bacon.

1:56Now, this is a good offer because now he doesn't have to pay for the bacon and I can eat the item and not leave anything over. And the first three times I ordered it, they made it for me the way I wanted. And it was delicious. The fourth time we went, David turned to me and said, you know, we make it with bacon because we think it tastes good with bacon. And there's a vegetarian restaurant three doors down that someone else owns. I think you should go there. And that was the day that David Chang became David Chang. and that Momofuku became Momofuku. Pick your customers, pick your future. That's a strategy choice.

2:38That is how you actually build a brand. You stand for something for someone. You are not trying to make everything for everyone. And if you have principles and you are willing to politely and respectfully send someone somewhere else, now you stand for something. If you're not willing to do that. There are two ways to think about brand. The wrong way is to say, it's your logo. We're going through a rebranding exercise. This is nonsense. You're going through a re-logoing exercise. Have fun, but it doesn't matter. Starbucks logo is terrible. It's just terrible. It would get you kicked out of art school.

3:22That doesn't mean they don't have a good brand. it means they have a bad logo, right? Brand is simply the story people tell themselves about the promise you are making. So the simple example that I've used before is this. Hyatt has a logo. Nike has a brand. The way I know this is if Hyatt announced they were coming out with a new line of running shoes, no one would have any idea what it was like. But if Nike said they're opening a hotel, we know exactly what it would be like. A brand is the promise and expectation you have that allows you to command loyalty and a premium price. If you don't have those things, you don't have a brand.

4:10You have a logo. So that's brand. Storytelling is not once upon a time. It doesn't have to be words. If you go to an open house, they have those in the uk when they're selling a house i think and you're walking around um and you smell apple pie baking that is a story it is a story that reminds you of your mom it is a story of all these complicated emotions that have nothing to do with a roof but everything to do with buying a house and strategy and story have to go together So Patagonia. Patagonia is one of the most valuable brands in its category. Patagonia sells clothing to people who already own clothes.

4:57It sells clothing to people who could buy something much cheaper from someone else. Their strategy is to stand for something for a certain group of dirtbag outdoor people or people who want to feel like they're aligned with those folks. And the story, they live it in every way. their store is made out of bricks they will go out of their way to rent a store made out of bricks because that's part of their story what they do with their profits how they're owned what they make what they don't make these are parts of their story firstly on that i can almost imagine if starbucks created a trainer or sneaker tomorrow you know in my head i kind of know exactly what it looked like but is there an example of a food and drink brand specifically where the story hasn't linked up with a strategy or the story has veered off piste from the strategy and the customer's been left thinking, what the hell?

5:52Okay. So I care a lot about chocolate. Some of the poorest people in the world make it. There's a lot of slave labor. Don't buy cheap chocolate. Nestle's and Hershey and Cadbury are consistent. They're saying for people who don't care about child labor and people working in poverty, we have cheap chocolate for you. It might be good. It might remind you of being a kid. But if you're going to buy Tony Chocoloni or Askinosie or original beans, their story is a different story. Their story is consistent. Well, one of the early bean to bar makers is a company in New York called Mast Brothers. And Mast Brothers were two guys with huge beards in Brooklyn, all bespoke-y feeling, et cetera.

6:40And then it turned out that some of their chocolate, they weren't making the way they say they were making it. And there was all this controversy about what were they melting down in the back and blah, blah, blah. All of a sudden, the truth undermined the story that they had been telling. And their trajectory completely was transformed because they lost the thread. Hershey's bought John Scharfenberger's company, Scharfenberger. Scharfenberger was one of the first bean to bar makers in the US. Well, once Hershey owned them, they had a problem, which is, what are you? Are you a craft business or are you a giant corporation?

7:21And now the Scharfenberger products that Hershey is selling are way crappier and middle market, more sugar, more crunch, because that's what Hershey's good at. So again, they have a muddled story that makes it hard for them to charge a premium because it's inconsistent. Thank you so much for listening to that espresso. I hope you enjoyed your morning coffee and are ready for the day. Let's be having your boy. And please do subscribe, follow the podcast, share this espresso on WhatsApp if you liked it. And also there's a link to our newsletter in the show description. I spend 15 hours toiling and writing this bad boy.

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