Beyond the Illusion: The Real David Blaine

27:44Do you think the superstitions in any way become detrimental to everyday life? I think superstitions in a weird way are important because I think it just shows your dedication to what you're trying to do. For example, when I'm running on a treadmill, let's say I decide I'm going to do a 5K. So I won't stop at the 3.1. I'll have to go to the 3.2 and then I'm like wait well I might as well just go to the 3.5 So that mentality which is based on you know the idea of like it starts with the superstition It's like push further push further. I think that Translates in when you're trying to do something like hold your breath for 17 minutes.

28:20You said somewhere in my work I have extreme self-discipline in my life. I have none It's true And I think it's like you go from one extreme to the other. So it's like right now I haven't started the training. I'm procrastinating. I'm currently 25 plus pounds overweight. I need to get back in the other mindset so I can start putting the show in Vegas together safely. But I'm also that last minute person. I wait until the last possible second. And then I'm like, okay, I have 76 days until the show. That gives me two and a half pounds per week, which means I'll be able to safely lose. let's call it 23 pounds and whatever that the math is and then okay I'll be there just in time always been a procrastinator I think I work best under pressure I think that's my thing and I think growing up with a single mother in Brooklyn and spending our first you know nine years like that where I was kind of in charge until she got remarried and then things changed obviously but up till then I was like, let's wing it and get it done.

29:25So speaking of your mom getting remarried, you move to the suburbs in New Jersey. We moved to a little town called Total, which is on the border of Patterson. And we lived in the top floor of a house, you know, right on the border, which was great and I went to Washington Park School where my best friend that became my best friend when I was 10 Jimmy who's who's there now who I just saw that just had a baby on the golf so I just went there with my daughter to go visit me like that yeah so we started in total and then I moved to Little Falls I went to Passaic Valley High School which was for me it was great because you know I surrounded with a different type of kid.

30:16So it wasn't like the kids that I grew up in Brooklyn with. It was like a different type of thing. These were, ironically, these kids were all like really tough. So it's like I learned a lot fast. I read your days often ended in fights or crying. Truth to that? Yeah, sure. But I think that, you know, I think that happens. I think that, yeah, I think those things. But that's not fun when you're in it. So I think it's also tricky because, you know, I'm lucky because I have a brother that's amazing. The role he plays in your life is what? My brother? Yeah. He's incredible, and he's just an amazing guy.

30:55You know, my mother, I think, married, and we moved to Jersey, and I think they didn't exactly get along, and I think I was more like who's this kid coming into my space, this crazy kid that's into magic. So I think it was a struggle, but in retrospect, I think that struggle was the most valuable. That's what makes you, and that's what also drives you. So like I said, when things are comfortable, I have very little, you know, I might just not even leave the apartment. But when things are tough and they're difficult, that's when I'm alive. And that's also when I feel the most creative. That's when I work the most.

31:42So I do believe that comfort does, in most cases, in my case at least, puts a complete damper in being creative or getting anything done. So it's the opposite of achievement. What did you think of your stepdad? I think he's, you know, he's my brother's dad. So I think he's a great guy. He's just from age 10 to 18. I lived under his roof, and that was very nice that he allowed that to be. But you know, I think you take opposite ends of the spectrum and put them into the same environment. I think there's always going to be that clash, you know? How do you view your dad today? Why, my biological father, he overdosed on heroin and died.

32:33So I never really knew him. I knew he gave my mother a really tough time. So I just found a picture of him, actually. Maybe I'll show it to you. How did you find it? Well, I was going through to find these things. I just found a one-off picture. So, yeah, it's sad that he had such a difficult life, but he was in Vietnam, and he didn't sign up to go. He was drafted, and it's either you go to jail or you go to Vietnam. And I think the only way you get people to just point their guns and shoot people for no reason is, you know, in many cases, such as my biological father, they started taking AAA grade morphine, right?

33:12They would raid infirmaries. And then they got back to New York. My mother had waited for them. And he was now hooked on heroin, you know. So I think it was tough. And he saw some horrific stuff over there, right? Yeah, crazy. Yeah. He saw his best friend get gutted alive while hanging from a tree in front of him and things like that. And would have these nightmares when he came back home. Horrific, yeah. So my mother had a very difficult life, but it also made her the most amazing teacher. She cared for, she was incredible. The biggest blessing was to have a mom like that. What did he say to her a few days before she's new with you?

34:01When she told him that she was pregnant, he just disappeared. So she didn't see him until the day that I was born. And one of her friends said that my mom's having a tough time in the hospital. You should go say something because she knew him. And he went to the hospital, looked at her, said, I don't love you anymore. I love another woman. Goodbye. And my mother already had the craziest life to begin with. Really? Yeah, but because it was just me and her, she put everything and everything into her boy. And I'm going to ask you about her in a sec, but he ends up coming back at some point and takes a swing at her, right?

34:41Yeah, well, she said he used to have nightmares from the war and he would just react and it became violent. So I don't know the details, obviously, but I've heard terrible stories. What was the situation where, and I found this remarkable, that you're a kid and there's a board between two windows, ten stories up? Yeah, it wasn't exactly like he just threw me on it and said, walk. I think he was holding me tightly, but I think he was teaching me, like, you don't need to have fear. So I don't think it was his reckless way of doing it. I was just so little, I think. But it might have worked, you know, because my friends all say that I was never afraid of things.

35:20that were you know i i would fall off the edge of like cliffs when i was little and land it and stuff so so maybe that that whole psychology of him teaching me not to be afraid because he was probably so traumatized and so afraid at the in war so i i but i was a kid so in retrospect you know if somebody throws something this way and it's going there you still remember it is coming right at you right yeah are there other things like that that come to mind that you actually Yeah, there's lots, yeah. There's lots of those things. But we didn't live with him, so I just saw him every now and then. One time he was smoking and he burnt the apartment down.

36:00We had to run over there. And there was also lots of fires growing up, by the way. Well, lots of your apartments burned down, right? Yeah, I was in a bunch of fires. By the way, another story is I was at a wrestling camp when I was 11 in Pennsylvania. We were all on a plateau between, and so there was a rubber mat with a cover and open, but everybody was told to go stand on that mat. And I just stayed out in the open field during the rain, and a lightning bolt hit. Not me, but you could see it, and it hit the field that I was standing on, but far away. but the electricity came into me and my hair all stood on edge and I was blinded for a minute plus.

36:44I couldn't see and I'm like, I can't see, I can't see. I was running in circles. So that's kind of a crazy story. Yeah, for sure. To close out the dad stuff, you ran into him later in life. Yeah, I've seen him a few times and a cop called me, said, you're next of kin, you're a biological father. is dead. He overdosed on heroin. And that was that. What was your reaction? I didn't know him very much, so my reaction was I was protective of my mother. So when you have one side of a story, you don't really the other side is... So, yeah. But it still touches you. I think he had a tough life. I knew him very little.

37:33I think I met him three or four times in my whole life, something like that. So I didn't know. Now my mother also has a godfather who's still in my life. This is my mom, by the way. This is her. She's amazing. This is my great aunt that paid for the magic camp.

37:57This is my mother. this is something really funny you asked me about like my acting that was like my headshot by the way why did you change from david white to david blaine i mean blaine was your middle name yeah blaine was always my middle name so i was david perez david white david moccalo david i had so many different last names that eventually blaine was always the middle name so when i was 18 the first thing I did was I went straight to the whatever you had to do to change your name legally to David Blaine and went back to just David Blaine. So I had so many different last names. I'll show you some of those things too.

38:37Yeah. What was I looking at? Oh, this was my godfather, so it's him. This is him teaching me chess when I was like four. He took me to Puerto Rico. And he played a big role? I think, yes, he was great. And him taking me to Puerto Rico and teaching me chess was very important as a kid. Because chess is a game where you have to think ahead, and magic's very similar. When it was you, your mom, your brother, toughest time financially would have been when? I mean, it was always tough, you know. It was never like... But no, the toughest time in finance would be Brooklyn. When she got remarried, it was tough, but not like you're hungry some days.

39:30So it was safe in that sense. Describe what it was like when you were in Brooklyn. My mother was very health conscious, so she would buy a huge bag of brown rice, a huge thing of oatmeal. She'd have kale. we'd have all those healthy, nutritious things, but, you know, it was a single mother working multiple jobs, and so, yeah, we were, you know, didn't have much. When we were walking to school, we'd walk across the street. She didn't want to go past the toy store or anything that she wouldn't be able to ever get. One time I remember I was, I was going to school. It was raining, and I found that, I said, Mom, there's money.

40:09It was raining really hard, and I picked up a$20 bill off the street but she thought it was just probably a penny and that we were late and when I remember when I pulled the 20 up she saw it and we both started jumping up and down and hugging each other and we were so excited and so happy and then that day when we came back from school she walked me right to the that toy store and with the 20 bucks I picked out a spider-man doll I believe What did she do to make ends meet? Worked multiple jobs. Waitress, school teacher. And then she'd send me away the whole summer so she could work and do whatever.

40:48So I'd go to those camp friendships, those programs where they take inner city kids and bring them up to this really pretty place. And there, I think also, now that I think about it, I was in those magic programs at summer camp. And I was like six, seven, eight. How would you kind of best explain the role she played in your life? Just the most amazing, inspiring. She would read to me always. She'd take me to museums. She'd take me to libraries. She was very loving, very affectionate, and never critical, never judged anybody. Had very little, but would be the first one to take her coat off and give it to a homeless swimming in the park and in Prospect Park and just yeah she was incredible.

41:37I read somewhere that you were considering going to college but then she got sick with ovarian cancer. She wanted me to go yeah she always dreamed of me going you know to a great school but when she got sick with cancer that wasn't an option I wanted to just succeed so I could help take care of her and stuff like that yeah what was it about what you read in her journals that impacted you kind of at the tail end of her life there though all her whole life is just it's it's mind-blowing starting with her childhood growing up the way she did she grew up from a very wealthy Jewish Mafia family her great uncle was he you know he was he owned the Riviera I think it was a first on gambling in New Jersey.

42:26He was partners with Meyer Lansky. He had all these casinos. And I think that kind of corrupt money, I think, set her on a mission of her own that she didn't want to be a part of that. And I think she left her family, left everything. She went from New York City to moving into Brooklyn after a suicide attempt when she was 18. And then she just tried, I think, tried to find meaning and just, like I said, became a school teacher, inner city kids, and social worker, and put herself through Brooklyn College at that point. What were her concerns for you that you read in her journal in her remaining days?

43:19I think her main concern was that I would always be alone, but that didn't happen. I have an amazing family. I have an incredible daughter. You said she removed fear from you. How so? I think when you just give a kid that much love and confidence, I think that helps. Yeah, that is what helps. But the only thing she was afraid of was bugs. and so for years when I would see an insect other than a cockroach but when I'd see an insect I would run and scream like like a crazy person what do you mean other than a cockroach well you you know in the apartment in New York we had roaches all the time so if you're used to them you're not afraid of them switching gears a bit here but I've asked you about the fear because it It applies to, obviously, your work.

44:10But how much do you agonize, like, over your work? I mean, it's full time. That's all you think about. All-consuming. Yeah. And I think magicians are very similar. I think most magicians that I'm friends with, they know nothing but magic. I mean, they study, they read, they love art because that's all part of the cinema. That's all part of magic, I think. But if you ask them about who won the NBA playoffs, very few, almost none of my magician friends can answer that. I think most magicians, including myself, become all consumed in magic. What about practicing cards? Non-stop. This is one of the first times I'm sitting here for this long without cards, but the only reason why is because I just watched something of myself when I was playing with cards the whole time, and it was really annoying because the sound kept going, So I said, okay, I'm not going to play with cards.

45:07I'm doing interviews. You'll sometimes do it eight hours a day? All day, yeah, all the time. Yeah, they just feel amazing. I love the way cards, I love the moves, the technical part of it, the digital fixation. It's just, yeah, it's just the whole thing. Can you go an entire day without touching cards? Oh, very difficult. I think it's also meditative on many levels. How so? Just the way, if you see a magician playing with cards and you see other magicians and one guy's like, suddenly you'll see every magician have to pull their cards out because it just feels, even just talking about them, like inching, you know, to grab the deck.

45:44But the point is, yeah, it's something that just, you know, it's just the fluidity. Yeah, it just feels incredible. In what ways was Houdini your role model? That was kind of my education. So I would study books on Houdini, look at images of him, and I think it started to make me dream up what was possible and what could be done and think about magic in a different way, about real versus tricks and stuff like that. Take me through your process for developing an idea. So I start with something. I start with a simple idea or I see an image and then I'm like, wait, that would be interesting, but it's not magical.

46:27But if you took that idea and stripped away this part of it, because Houdini wrote that Mac Norton, who was the guy that was a human aquarium that could store frogs and fish and stuff, it was 100 years ago in his book Miracle Mind, I said, wait. So if Houdini's writing about this guy doing it with him on tour, Houdini definitely wasn't fooled. so Houdini really believed that this guy was able to store frogs and fish in his stomach in an aquarium which is all the water and frogs he would drink in front of the audience and then he'd bring up all the water and all the frogs and fish and if you take that away and you get rid of the messiness of it and you can just produce a frog that would be really interesting you know and so that was the basis of it and then I'll show you the sword that I had made where it and the sword was kind of the beginning of the process so actually can we get that sword is it it's right there on that it's right below thanks it's right below the uh right there on the left yeah that sword no to the right uh yeah that big and i don't need the holder just the sword itself perfect thank you so you see i had this thing made and the frogs are on it uh-huh right and then so in order to get rid of the hole drink the water bring up the water, I had to figure out how to go in and out of the esophagus so I could bring the frog up without the water.

48:18So it became, in my mind, if I could do this sword, then I can figure out how to control my stomach and my esophagus and be able to bring a frog up. And why is that? In your mind, you thought if you could do that, you could do the other? I don't know. it just felt right and so but my so went from his thing was to drink the water drink it and then bring all the water out and bring the creatures out and i started thinking if you can just do that where you have nothing and suddenly there's a frog that's magical so you get the idea and then from idea to it's actually you don't even doubt it right away you just assume it's real I well I mean based on yeah knowledge of you but but yeah I guess the the question is the the training that it takes to get get to the point where you're actually able to yeah it was being able to do this was a big part is it can I also have a like a tissue or paper towel with just some water please thank you.

49:35Seth has to go getting his hands on it. Yeah I'll just rinse this because it's been sitting there. You want to try this with a perfect thanks. I'll just do this.

49:52Perfect. Thank you. So you want to see the process? Yeah, sure. All right. I have to kind of lick it. You want to stand up? You can pull it out. Low energy, unfocused, foggy, you might be dehydrated. Gatorade Zero Powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body. with a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors. Great tasting hydration no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

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51:28So I had to learn how to do that. Oh, I mean, even when you're doing it, it looks as horrible as it must be. You know, you watch, you do some of the stunts sometimes. I learned that specifically to do that one trick with the frog. It's that whole thing, the whole process of learning how to do that led to the frog. But then that led to another trick, which was I started thinking, what if I could swallow somebody's ring and then pull it out with a hanger? Oh, you're doing it. Oh! Oh! So then I had to learn how to put a hanger, you know, down my throat. And then I had to develop that trick. So the process is, you know, one thing from an old image of a poster, and then Houdini's book where he writes, this is how the trick, he must have really been doing it.

52:26Then it leads to, can I do it? Then it leads to, maybe I should learn how to control the esophagus. So it leads to swords bomb, which leads to me learning how to do that trick with the frog, which then leads to another idea, which is, oh, wait, what if I ate somebody's ring, put a hand grin and pulled it out? Back up a moment. How are you feeling right now just after having done that? Yeah, fine. Really? And what about when it's going down? Fine. I just haven't practiced or done it for a long time, but yeah, it was quick. probably if I if I practiced again for you know three days it'd be like nothing and when you first start I'd imagine you don't go all the way down right it's a I think the first time I did it was just not that big yeah did go all the way yeah to the hits the stomach the bottom of stomach yeah and from there to being able to pull a ring out with a hand then you figure out how to incorporate magic into the idea.

53:31And that's what during early YouTube days when all the tricks were kind of being exposed, I started thinking it would be really interesting to figure out how to do things that are real and combine that with magic. So that way the reality of it makes it just as interesting when the method is revealed as the trick that you're seeing. And was that realization, did that kind of change everything for you? No, because I was always doing that stuff. So I always liked the the real stuff even as a kid that was the magic i was drawn to so you know all the guys on coney island that were doing the crazy stuff so yeah i think i always you know what it was i think i always liked things that were believable and i think that that's from growing up with you know a deck of cards not like a a magic kit you know because my mother could never buy a magic kit so So giving me a deck of cards that her mother gave to her that had tarot images on it, that led me down the path of learning that you can do amazing things with a deck of cards and simple magic.

54:36And when you'll do these bigger stunts, explain the mental goals, almost short-term mental goals, you'll set for yourself along the way. You have to give me one.

54:50I mean, it could be... You're going to say the ice of the 44 days? Well, yeah, I mean, those are the examples where I read about you talking about the short-term mental goals, but I think I assumed it was more than just that, that in order to kind of get through some of these bigger things, you'll only look so far ahead. Yeah, well, that's true. I think that's just the math part of my brain. So I like to break things down into numbers. So if I know I have to do 44 days, which seems like a long time to go without food and just water, it's not as hard to realize 22 days and make that possible. So the first goal is how do I get here?

55:38And for fasting, I'd done all of my stunts previous to that. The fasting was just the side footnote that wasn't really discussed. But when I was buried alive for a week, I didn't want to eat the week before because I didn't want to have to go to the bathroom in the coffin, obviously. So that was really a 14-day fast. So that kind of led me to loving that part of it. Because when you fast, the brain changes again and everything becomes really incredible. You know, all the things that yogis and monks talk about during their fasting and during their cutoff of all the things that you daily think about, that changes your brain and suddenly become aware of things that you would never think of.

56:15So describe what that's like when you're actually in it, by the way. It just becomes amazing because you realize how much your day is based around your next meal or what you're going to, you know, and that consumes a lot of time. Like, oh, where am I going to go to dinner? Well, I have to break. And when you take that away, you realize that you're fully functional. But not only that, now your brain is thinking about things that you never thought about, you know, and even just the way you see colors. You know, when you do an extreme fast and you take away everything, suddenly you're aware of colors that you never even paid attention.

56:44and you look at the sky and you're like, oh my God. So it triggers something that's incredible. So then I started, I was like, okay, I'm going to go to London and do a long fast. And the whole stunt would be only about the water fast. And that became what I researched and looked into and found documentations of what could be done. And I'd known that I'd already done this long, plus I'd tested and practiced doing fasts. And I was like, okay, this is doable. And I'm going to push it just to this point because I think I can come back with no permanent damage. And did you? Yeah, for the most part.

57:27What's for the most part? Yeah, I mean, you know, my org, I have the Journal of Medicine thing. They kept all the documentation somewhere here. but it discussed like all the repercussions on the body and the long-term effects on some level oh yeah we could look at it after I guess um but yeah the you know I think my my my heart wall my BM my bone mass index everything had decreased by about 33 percent I lost 60 pounds in 44 days and uh yeah it was it was intense but I feel like I did get most recovery of other than my metabolism I feel like it always thinks I'm going into starvation mode now maybe so my body reacts quicker when I Stop eating when I start eating I can gain and lose really fast You said that before and said like that there's no way of actually proving that but it's been since that point that you're I think so Yeah, I think so.

58:21What did the recovery process entail from that? Well, the doctors were skeptical even my own doctor who was like a top starvation expert who wrote the paper with me in the He wrote the paper. He just added me because I gave him my thoughts. But he was skeptical. He thought I was taking glucose or something or electrolyzes, but it wasn't. It was just Pure H2O. And they wanted you to at some point, right? Well, my magician collaborator wanted me to. And I was like, no, I want to do it this way. So I did it my way. At the end of the stunt, when I went to the hospital, phosphate levels went really fast.

59:01and I almost went into shock and probably could have died. And that's when the guy went, oh my, wow, all the stuff he said is real. This is the refeeding syndrome. And then he wrote a paper about that, which is how lots of people actually that are bulimic or starving themselves, they actually become at real risk once they start to feed them. So he had a good collection of data and used that information to publish a paper. But that was the most dangerous part for you, you felt like, when it came time to refeed? No, I don't know. I think that was the most dangerous part for just the team. For me, at around day 40, my heart started feeling really strange.

59:46I kept thinking I was going to go into cardiac arrest. So there was an extreme risk based on what I was feeling. but then I got a message from somebody that was outside that brought a sign that said God is love and that was the last thing my mother said so I'm like okay I'm gonna make it and your body started consuming because you would think it just goes after the fat but it doesn't so it goes after muscle tissue and fat and then it switches to your organs and it goes so your organs start to decrease in size and you really start to feel the muscle tissues when your body's eating it really becomes painful everywhere and I don't recommend anybody to do an extended fast at that level.

1:00:30I think a few days is great. 63 hours in a block of ice. Why do you call that your most challenging stuff? I think it was meant to be longer and I think I showed up late to the ice or something like that and then the ice wasn't ready and then so everything was backwards on that so But that was the hardest one by far. And I think it was because standing up the entire time, plus the radiation of the cold, even though it was a warm November, it was like 68. So the air being pumped through was, you know, at a room temperature. But that made the ice continuously drip on me. And then you're fighting your own brain.

1:01:10It's like one half of you saying, go to sleep, you're going to die. The other half is like, no, I have to achieve this goal. And it becomes like a battle against yourself. and then the brain just gives out. And then I started having hallucinations while I was awake, but I couldn't tell whether this is real, is this real life or am I dreaming with my eyes open? And that was the case. I was having nightmares and dreams while my eyes were open. Starting at hour 55, so it was probably only like eight or nine hours left. But they're long, you know, those hours.

1:01:44And a couple minutes passed and you thought it was hours, right? A couple seconds passed and I thought it was hours. Yeah, probably like time shifts. Everything is so different. The way it worked is I think it was like 4.02 or I don't remember the time, but the stunt was supposed to end at 9 or 10. It's 4.02 and I see a guy through the ice. By the way, them fox did a whole special, by the way, saying that I wasn't in the block of ice and I had a twin switching up and down. and my doorman watched it and he actually believed and he's like was that you it's like eddie you looked at me through yes you you said hi to me yeah he's like yeah but they said you were switching i say but then where's my twin but anyway the next special is that we never landed on the moon so i was like okay but but anyway so um the guy is outside it's 402 whatever the time is and I said uh I go what time is it and and somebody out there goes four oh two So I'm like, okay, two, that means I have like five or six hours until this is over.

1:02:58I have to wait until nine or ten. Okay, so I wait. I'm trying to like get this clock to move. So I wait for two hours. Wait before I ask anybody again. So I look out. It's blurry with the ice. I look out. I see somebody. I go, what time is it? And the guy goes, four. Oh, four. whatever it was. And it was the same guy. And I was like, ah! And that's when I think the real, it started, the brain just went crazy. Do you remember what was going on? Then I started seeing people on the ice, and I was communicating to people, and I was hearing voices, and the hallucinations just went crazy. So when did your team realize you were in trouble?

1:03:41When the guy that was working on the stunt, because they said it was a warm November, so the ice was dripping a lot, so he was vacuuming under the ice, and hit the catheter, which I went, And that was the beginning of like downhill. He feels so bad to this day, but it's not his fault. So I always say if there was one thing I wouldn't do, but now there's a few. But if there was one I would never redo, it's the ice. For nothing in the world would I do that. Because I have a daughter and I don't want to kill myself, I also wouldn't do the 44 days. The Buried Alive, I feel like anybody could do that.

1:04:15The Breath Hold, I do it still all the time against all advice because I have a heart condition. What's the heart condition? Just like 50 % stenosis, I get half the supply blood to the heart because my right coronary artery takes an irregular path between my pulmonary artery and my aorta, which reduces blood flow to the heart, which may also be the reason I can hold my breath because maybe the body compensates and I have a higher red blood cell, I don't know. So there may be some connection to me being able to hold my breath to that birth defect that I have. But when I meet with all the cardiologists, they say, you cannot hold your breath, you will die.

1:04:54They've been saying this now for 15, 10 years. No, since 2014, or 15. The sleep deprivation thing. That one I could not do. Okay, because I was going to ask you. That one, I backed out of. In earlier interviews, you had said a goal of yours was to break that record, a million seconds. A million seconds would break the record. A little more than 11 and a half days. It was 11.56, I think, would be a million seconds. When did that change? I started, I hired the team. I had, like, the top guy out of Stanford, whose name is actually Dr. Dement. And he's the one that covered Randy Gardner that did the 11 days.

1:05:32But it was not documented in the first four days, so who knows exactly. But anyway, when him and the team came, we started playing with sleep. It had gotten up to five days or something. But he said, if you have micro-sleeps, we're not going to count it. So it means if you do that, it doesn't count. So it's like, just based on the difficulty and based on that statement, and based on Peter Tripp, who was a radio DJ that did it in Times Square. Ironically, his name is Peter Tripp, and he actually tripped out at the end of his week-long telethon where he stayed awake and moved away. He never spoke to any of his family.

1:06:05Yeah, it changed his brain, apparently. Wow. Yeah. But anyway, so that one was the one that seemed like, this one I don't think I can actually pull that off. I'm also that guy that just falls asleep anywhere, anytime. But I want to ask you, in terms of stunts you have done, the breath-holding on Oprah, what's going through your mind? Before Oprah, obviously I wanted to be sure that I wasn't going to fail. So I worked diligently with a great team, had pulmonary experts, had had neurovascular surgeons, doctors, had free divers, had everybody with me. But I was in a pool with all the telemetry hooked up and I was doing a breath hold and I had gotten to 20 minutes and two seconds.

1:06:53But my heart had dropped to eight beats per minute and they thought that I was gonna suddenly go into cardiac arrest and die so they pulled me out of the water and I was like why did you do that? It was like I was in an amazing, it's like incredible you know so anyway i had done the 2002 so even that gave me the variance for when i did oprah even if things were crashing or not going according to plan which they weren't i knew that i could still do at least 10 more than what the goal was so i felt i felt comfortable that i could succeed with the record at the time which was 1632 what's the longest you've done 2002 20 minutes and two seconds yeah all right so you're on oprah now which is much different because you know this is the national television program well i'll tell you what the issues were so so it wasn't that but what the issue was was i wanted to use a sphere because that image is is i thought just so much better and she was like okay we could ship the sphere we'll set that up um but but i I also wanted telemetry so they could watch the heart rate, which I thought would be for safety, but also interesting to see what the heart does, right?

1:08:09So we had a pulmonary expert come in and I was hooked up, but the machine, they left it right next to my ear, which was annoying and awful and made the heart rate go quicker and then I had a scheming of the heart so it would go high than low. top of that because for the audience i wanted to be facing this way so i was used to training where i just float face down which makes it much easier but now i want to be this way so i had to put my feet into the these things because i had a wetsuit on to keep me from going up and i had to use extra energy to keep the body down so suddenly i was like oh no this isn't this is live and we're in the middle of it and things aren't going to be right.

1:08:56At one point, I didn't think I was going to make it. I was sure that I was going to black out and that would be it. You don't die from a blackout, by the way. You black out, and this is how the Navy SEALs are trained, is they're blacked out underwater. And then that way they're not afraid of drowning. And then they're brought up to the top and they're brought back. So yeah, but all the conditions kind of made this very difficult. And at the halfway point, you don't think you're going to... I didn't think I was going to make it, no chance. What was the most painful part of it? It did start to get really painful, but I think at like 15 minutes or something like that, it started to get really, really uncomfortable.

1:09:38I mean... And what's the feeling? Well, first I purge really hard on O2 for 23 minutes. That gets rid of all the CO2 and it loads you up. and then what happens is you have tingling everywhere, the fingers, ears, the nose, the lips, everything feels very strange. And I ride that out. So four minutes in, it kind of feels like I'm just beginning. And then you kind of cruise for a little bit, but I had that issue with the feet trying to hold the body. and then I had the issue of this, with the beeps, kind of hearing your heart rate and knowing that it's going way higher than it should. The other thing is when your eyes are closed, you don't use any, the less your brain works, the more efficient, the brain uses a lot of oxygen.

1:10:30So the brain is, the more you can put it, you can take away everything, everything, even closing your eyes, the more efficient you are at holding your breath. So between the beeping and the brain working and the feet, it became really difficult. To one point, I didn't think I was going to make it. But as soon as I got to, I think, around the mark of what the goal was, which I think it was 1632, it was 13. and then it was a hypothetical 10 minutes that was a rumor. There was no documentation of it. But then I believed that it was truthful because it was a bunch of freedivers that said, yeah, there's somebody that held for 10 minutes.

1:11:17And then I did it myself in a pool and got to 15 minutes with my team underwater. And then I started to think that, yeah, You could go for almost 20 minutes. Now, there's somebody I think did 24 minutes and 3 seconds underwater, which is crazy. And you thought you were going to go into cardiac arrest at the end there? Yeah. But then when I got closer to the 16-plus mark, I was like, okay, I'm good. What happened to the Brooklyn Bridge? I started training for that. dropping just repetitively over and over. And I did a, let's see, I have a picture of it. Show you what I did to that. I could find it.

1:12:13Did a, after a bunch of jumps, I'd kind of done this to my arms. Oh. Yeah, so. And where were you jumping from there? You can see, I guess, here. Yeah.

1:12:34So once that's, I said, well, this is... Oh, and that's from how high up that you're jumping? Not even a fraction of the Brooklyn Bridge height. But I'm still, you know, I'm still... I'm still in love with falling from heights into water. I just, I think the Brooklyn Bridge is, I don't think it's worth the repercussions. Number one, plus, you don't want some kids seeing that and thinking it's okay to do. So there's multiple reasons. I'm just thinking, what if we put a helicopter next to it? And the guy that's coaching me, Dana Quincy, who jumped 172 feet into water, ABCY World of Sports, everybody else was pulled out in a stretcher after that.

1:13:27they pulled the event and he said no more of this but he he looks at that Brooklyn Bridge he's like I could get you to do that like nothing so he for him it's it's it would be simple to he thinks coach but I think not the kerosene and water in in your mouth the moment you were I think performing for Robert De Niro and Chef Nobu. Yeah. That's arguably the most danger you've ever felt you were in, like in that actual moment, right? I still think that's like the most dangerous because just drinking that much, you know, kerosene, the lamp oil, which is, they filter the, they use chemicals to get rid of the odor.

1:14:12So it's even more dangerous than kerosene. but drinking it and then having it go in your stomach, the problem is the oil residue. So there's always some, so I've stopped doing that one where I drink it. Now I just put it in my mouth, but I'm still, I don't even feel comfortable with that anymore. Why not? I just think putting those kind of, that kind of stuff. I have a friend, Johnny Fox, who was a sword swallower and a fire eater, and we got esophageal, you know, cancer, and just, it was a bad death. So, yeah. When you were doing that, though, like that time what are you thinking as it why i had watched that act since i was a kid it was a guy named haji ali that would drink a big glass of kerosene and a gallon of water the kerosene would float on top of his stomach and then he would blow the kerosene out onto a fire and make an enormous fire so it was like he was like a human dragon and then he would use the water to put out the fire so i was like whoa that's the craziest thing i've ever seen so i always wanted to learn that.

1:15:15It took me forever to learn it, but the hard part wasn't drinking the kerosene or the flammable, and then I had somebody make me one. His name was Dr. Zeller. He made Zell Gel, the famous gel that prevents you from, you know, when you put your skin on fire from actually feeling the fire itself, you know, from the heat. So I guess you do feel the heat, but it protects you from burning yourself. So he was making me a mixture that was supposedly you know jet fuel is the cleanest so it was kind of like a jet fuel and uh and then this guy dr zeller suddenly died of some weird thing and so i was like oh so anyway i i haven't figured out the solution because i still have the fire on tour but i'm trying to figure out if there's an alcohol base like a bacardi 151 which is very flammable that i can drink not swallow and then blow the fire out.

1:16:09The fire comes back really quick. So anyway, I'm working on that for this new show. I'm trying to figure out a solution. Have you ever been, when you've had the kerosene down in you, like freaking out a little bit? Yeah. When I did it at Harrison Ford's house. It makes your heart and your body just goes really weird. Yeah, so I think that was probably the last time that I drank that much kerosene. And what do you do when you... It's just minimal amounts. Like, what do you do when you freak out? No, I mean, your body, you feel it. Like, your heart just starts going crazy, and your body, you're sweating.

1:16:49Your body's reacting. Like, what are you putting this in my system for you? And do you think you're in trouble in that moment? Hmm, nah. I mean, I also have that hypochondria thing, so sometimes I assume something. But I've been through that so much as a kid that eventually now I'm not so paranoid of it. Last stunt, I wanted to bring up the bullet catch, which you've done on a couple of occasions. I believe your head of production temporarily quit. Yeah, my top magician consulted me. So if you do this again, I'm not helping you at all. And then that and then just all the gun violence and everything, it made me reluctant.

1:17:33I'm like, no, forget this. It's not worth it. And then, you know, that magician Chung Ling Su, he died doing the bullet catch on stage, and he was an American magician. Will you throw me that book right there? Glorious to say, yeah. So this is Chung Ling Su, and this guy, this is him, Billy Robinson, and this is him as Chung Ling Su, and he played a Chinese conjurer because 100 years ago, if you're from China and a magician you're very mysterious very interesting so he wouldn't speak and he would do the bullet catch on stage and I thought it was so nice the way he did it though it was so cool looking he would have a I'll show you it's it's such a the way he presented it was so cool he'd have them shoot him from the audience and it was like a path that went out into the audience straight towards him let's see if I could find that and then what happened was one day he did the bullet catch on stage and again remember he never spoke they thought he was a they thought he was a Chinese conjurer they couldn't speak any English yeah and he was in London performing the bullet catch and the bullet catch went wrong struck him and he yelled someone close someone lower the curtain, I've been shot.

1:19:00And suddenly he sounded like an American. And the whole audience laughed. They thought he was kidding. They thought it was funny. Then he dropped dead on stage in front of everybody. See how he did it? It just looks, it did look so cool. You see? Yeah. So it's kind of like that story about Chong Ling Su's bullet catch and the story about Robert Houdin. There's such a rich history of it, so I wanted to do it. And presumably there's even less opportunity for precision. Well, he did it as a trick. He didn't really catch it. So the guy that I studied with was named Carl Skeens, and he did it on That's Incredible.

1:19:39And he had his wife shoot him in a metal cup in his mouth, and he had done it hundreds of times. And just one time, he said when they were fighting, she missed a little bit and sliced through his face. But he obviously, 12 magicians that died were faking it. And he was fine other than that one time. So I had him help me figure out a way to do it for real, which is put a metal cup in your mouth, have a bullet shot into the metal cup. And then I started thinking, but if I'm going to do this on stage, I think I have to do it to myself. And I started thinking, if you put a string onto the trigger, put a laser on a scope, and then...

1:20:20What was the scariest part of the times you've done it? I think that the scary part is before the fact, not when you're doing it. When you're first trying to actually solidify the idea, I think that's kind of, you know, you're like, how am I going to do this? So the assembly of it. But it was like when I did the balloon flight, when my daughter came, the whole thing was dialed in and safe and perfect. So there would be no risk of really anything. We worked really hard to get there. But leading up to it, I had to do almost 500 jumps and it had to be done quickly. so we were doing 10, 12 a day. And yeah, I had to get a pro rating so I could jump over a congested area.

1:21:01And you aren't insured for much of that. I couldn't be insured for any of that, actually. So until the real stunt, but the whole 500 jumps was on me. So the scary part was the off-the-books part that I was doing on my own. Ironically, no injuries whatsoever. The first jump that I did recreationally, like a year after the balloon stunt. I was flying with a friend. He was holding on to me so another guy could get a picture of us. And then when I came back, I was so far away from a good landing spot that I landed on something just double broke and triple ripped the ligaments on the ankle. So the big injury that I had was just on a recreational jump.

1:21:43But it was also the one time that I didn't treat it very seriously. I wasn't focused and I wasn't prepared. I didn't have my equipment, didn't have my, but what I had done the 500 jumps with. So it just shows you, it's like, you know, that level of focus and seriousness has to be applied at all times. Health issues you have today associated with your career? I think metabolism took a hit, probably from all the breath holding. They say short-term memory loss, but short-term memory rebuilds itself apparently. And then I would guess that the unknowns from eating glass, kerosene, these things, probably there's a lot of residual effects that I don't really know about yet.

1:22:26And on the munching on glass, I mean, you... It's probably not a good idea. Well, I mean, you have issues today, right? The other thing is there's like a chemical in the glass. So the chemical that they use to make glass, that's also going into your body. So not the best idea. And explain why you moved from the hand to the bicep with the ice pick. Just the scar tissue that was happening in my hand, the amount of scar tissue that was becoming, I would have like sharp shooting pains and nerves, so I just decided to switch to, you know. You said before you think you're going to die in your 60s, or high likelihood.

1:23:07No, well, what I said is if I was betting as an insurance guy, betting on, you know, life expectancy of, first of all, Houdini died at 52. A bunch of magicians did die at the age of 52, but he was very, you know, extreme and really pushed himself. I mean, you're no different. I think I do push myself a lot, but now that I have a daughter, I don't even want that risk anymore. So the way I approach things is very different, very calculated. You said in an article, I'd like to figure out how to be happy more. Oh, well, sure. I mean, I'm not a bouncing up happy type person, but that doesn't mean I'm also a depressed person.

1:23:50Yeah, but sure, I'm not that type of person that walks around like, ah, no. What made you realize you'd like to be happy more? No, I just mean, you know, there's so much to be grateful for, right? Like you could be in an extreme situation where everything seems really difficult, but you could take that and use it to build and become stronger and look at it as like, oh, I'm lucky that I went through this versus, oh, this is terrible. Life is unfair. So it's two approaches. So I'd like to take any situation that things are difficult and kind of use it as like, oh, great, let me learn how to become stronger.

1:24:27Let me learn how to become better. Let me learn, you know? You said long ago you're reluctant to let people in or get close to people. Yeah, I think that's just childhood and the world around and that type of thing makes you a little afraid. And then probably also the loss of my mother. there's another part of me that's afraid that if I do feel that way and then somebody abandons me there's like that great devastation so I think that combination of things probably led to you know keeping you know guard up on certain levels in what way do you see it come out in you I don't know I just it's everything you know and and then the other thing is which is I think I think just as a magician, you're also in a world where you're not like, you work on things, but you're like very guarded about who you share the things with, you know?

1:25:29So you're very, very protective over ideas, you know? So I think it all, I think it all go hand, it's hand in hand. But there was a period where that upset you, right? Like the, like inability to let people in more? Yeah, I don't know. um how would you say the risks you take impact like relationships with significant others when dessa was one i did the electrified thing and then that was the longest break that i ever had which was almost a decade before i did another stunt so it's the way i think about things changed as soon as i had a daughter previous to that i wasn't afraid you know if a shark bites my leg off, so be it.

1:26:17So before that, I was a little more willing to take a risk, whereas now I'll make sure that there's a cage close enough by that if the shark starts to come at me, I could get in the cage. What about on the dating front? What's it like to date? I think dating a magician is for a start already strange. You know, I think a magician is very, we keep all of our walls up and our world is all consumed by magic. So I think that makes it complicated.

1:26:57Like, do you think that makes it hard? Yeah, probably. I think it's a complicated, long rabbit hole to try to figure out. But sure, being a magician, number one, is you're guarded, you're secretive, you're reluctant to let people in on some level. It's just the nature of that. And I think that the reason people become a magician is because they already have that brain chemistry. Like they've already built that wiring of, you know, I'm going to stay alone. I'm going to practice magic. It's weird. I don't care if the other kids don't accept me because I have my cards, I have my magic. So I think that magicians have in common.

1:27:41I think it's similar to like comedians in some level, or it's like it's its own world. But you feel great when you're with other magicians, you know, because you have that same language, that same communication. And that communication is about the cards or the numbers or the logic or the science or the creativity. And that's where all the energy and focus goes, I think. How much desire, if any, do you have to one day get married? I mean, I'm open to everything. I mean, is that something you want for your life? Let's put it like this. I'm the first person that cries over any romantic movie. So like any movie that comes on, including Grease, I'm showing it to my daughter and I just start crying.

1:28:29She's like, why are you crying, Papa? I'm also the first one that tells my brother, everybody, marry her. She's amazing. Just marry her. So yeah, I believe in all of that stuff. I think I'm just seeing how there's a part of me that's guarded and afraid of being abandoned and things like that. And then again, I think that goes to the whole magician's construct. Wait, this is Desa Kahl. Sure. Propel Fitness Water. With Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar, and vitamins, Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade Electrolytes.

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1:29:45Hey. Say hi. Hello. I'm grilling your dad with questions. Are you going to come over? Hey. You're going to come over in a bit? Yeah. Just what pair of shoes do you think I need to take for the airport tomorrow? I think the new ones are good. So I bring the Nike's? Yeah, perfect. So I bring the foot in your suitcase? Yeah, perfect. Okay, so we'll be there in 30 minutes. Okay, perfect. Love you. Love you. Bye. Fatherhood impacted you how? the greatest experience of my entire life. It gives you a purpose. And it's funny because I used to see people showing pictures of their kids, now I'm that guy.

1:30:34You know, there's nothing greater in life. It's our ultimate purpose, right? Survival and reproduction, according to Freud, the ultimate productive, you know, that's it. So doing magic tricks and all that stuff, sure, it's entertaining and fun, but no, having a daughter is the whole point of life and existence. So yeah, it's the most fulfilling, rewarding experience that I'll ever have. And by the way, it's hard to continue doing magic because I just want to be with my daughter. So it's like any time that I'm doing something, like even now, it's like this is time that I could be with my daughter.

1:31:13So it's everything is, you know, but we spend a lot of time, so it's okay. But I'm just saying, yeah, that's the greatest feeling and experience that you can, for me personally, that you could ever have in life. It's the only other moment in the interview where you've been a little touched, like talking about something. Sure, yeah. What was the other moment? Oh, talking a little bit about your parents. Okay. It changed you in what ways that you weren't expecting? I mean, in every way. Things shift. What you think was important before is no longer important. So the main thing that's important is just being the best dad that I can be and being there for her and teaching her everything that I love.

1:32:01I know how you do it. No, you don't. I know you put it there. You knew that? How did you know? You're a magician? Watching her grow and learn and supporting that, that's my priority now. Of course the work is important and doing magic I still love. It's my passion. It's my drive and my focus, of course. But now that's not the only... Now there's something much more important. To what extent was it at all challenging figuring out that balance? I think you just naturally... It just happens. You just become that. I don't think you have to figure it out. Although there was a book that was really good called Nurture Shock.

1:32:48I recommend it highly for anybody if they want to learn about the psychology of raising a kid in a way that, so with Nurture Shock, what they say in the beginning of the book, which is amazing, I think Columbia and Harvard did a test and they gave 1 ,000 kids the exact same tests, and 500 were split in one group, 500 in the other. They were all pretty much on the same level, which is why they were put into this test. and the 500 kids that were rewarded on their achievements, like, you're great, that was amazing. And then the other 500 kids were rewarded on their work. And what happened was on the second test, the 500 kids that were told they were great and their achievements were so amazing, they suddenly declined on the next test where the kids that were rewarded for working hard, they increased, they went up immediately.

1:33:34And the reason why was because when you compliment somebody's work, they can just keep getting better, there's no end to it. But when you compliment somebody's achievements, It's like, oh, you're great. That's amazing. Suddenly, they're afraid to not be great. And so suddenly, they're more hesitant and reluctant to get something wrong, whereas the other kids, they're getting compliments on the work. So that was like the opening of the book and just little things like that that helped me understand just psychology in a way that I wouldn't have normally thought of it. How would you feel if she got into magic?

1:34:02Great. I support anything that she wants to do. And she's so amazing and so talented. And she is into magic. She's incredible at it. Well, that's because I've seen her, obviously. When she comes, I'll show you guys something. But we're doing it just as practice right now, so there won't be any. Well, the reason I ask because in some, you know, I've seen her in some of your work, but then in some conversations you've had your, like, you don't want that life for her. No, whatever she decides, I'm super supportive. I want to touch on some celebrity interaction. First, Mike Tyson's people accidentally taking your suitcase.

1:34:45Oh, amazing. Running into Mike at that point was incredible. And you're how old? I don't remember, but young. And it was like my first trip to LA and brown to me suitcases were the thing. And so he, there was like a hundred getting thrown into his cars and mine was missing. And I say, I think you guys might've taken one of my bags. He go, go knock on that limo. And I knock on the window and the thing rolls down. It's like, you got a problem? And I was like, no, Mike, I used to print you on my shirt. And he goes, jump in. So I sit in the limo and in the ride back to his hotel, I was doing magic to him the whole time.

1:35:21And he said, you know, I wasn't meant to be the heavyweight champ. I was too short. My reach isn't good. He's like, but I had nothing to lose and therefore I had everything to gain. And he's like, you know, he gave me little amazing bits of wisdom, which is like, you work really hard. You don't look back. You focus on the big goal. You know, it was amazing. Leonardo DiCaprio. Great. Amazing. You guys were close at one point. Yeah, he was very generous. He was amazing. Very generous. He was so nice. He hosted my first show. He was incredible. The articles read like that you didn't like the association with him when you were coming up or something.

1:36:00It's an honor to be associated with him. That guy's amazing. Trump. Great. I met him on a handshake and I did magic to him at some party. I was like 18 or 19 or whatever it was. And I was like, one day I'm going to do stunts. Can I use your land? He's like, yeah, here, take my number. And he gave me his card. And then cut to a few years later, I called that card. It was like 832-2000, I think. I don't remember. But it was, so they, hello, Donald Trump. And so I said, this is Dave Blaine, a magician. He told me I could talk, call him when I needed. And so he jumps on the phone and I was like, remember you said I could like use your land to do a stunt?

1:36:38Was think about doing the stunt buried alive that Houdini died before he got the chance to do, which is that stunt, he died before him. And he said, yeah, I'll send you my driver. And back then having a driver ticket was a big deal, right? There was no Uber or anything. I was sending my driver and his driver took me around to all the spots and I saw this great West Side Highway location. I was like, I want that one. And they were like, okay, it's yours. Madonna. Amazing. You guys gated, right? No, we were very close, and we're still close. And what was amazing was early on I would watch how she builds shows.

1:37:11So I would go to the museum with her and things like that, and I would see her looking at all the art and all the photographs and just writing little thoughts for what she's going to put into her shows. And, yeah, she's an incredible, amazing, powerful woman that I was lucky to become friends with. Still to this day, it's always inspiring, and always her last show it was she made a like a music like almost like a musical and it was on I mean she did it so much and it was so hard but it was unbelievable the amount of thought and processes very few people can do that you know in that in the whole yeah yeah very few she creates and does her whole thing from the bottom up.

1:38:00And even watching her build her show, like the way she checks every little detail, every nut and bolt on the stage, on all the props, it's crazy. It's amazing. President Bush and buttering up the Secret Service beforehand. I stole his watch. I think we were in China. I was at a gig. And I did this watch deal. But buttering up the Secret Service beforehand was a key part of that. Yeah, getting these guys ready so when I start handling or doing whatever, they wouldn't think I was going to, like, stab him, you know, do something crazy. So, yeah, I got them comfortable with the idea that, like, I can grab and manipulate people.

1:38:39Look, here you go, move here, move here, come here. You know, so that was, yeah, that was great. Thanks for listening to my chat with David Blaine. To see him literally swallow a sword and some jaw-dropping card tricks he performed for our crew, go to youtube.com slash Graham Bensinger. And if you get a chance, give us a rating and review. Thanks again for listening.

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