Gary Player: Childhood Tragedy, Relentless Discipline and Golf Immortality

29:11It was terrific to see. Golf. How much of one's success in golf is mental? a large a large amount engulf mental and good nerves good nerves are imperative you've got to have good nerves you've got to be fit you've got to eat properly that's the new that's going to be the new technique that's going to be the new um technology in sports will be eating because no very few eating i i might meet one person out of 10 000 that eat properly so that's going to be the new thing to fuel the engine to give it the energy to give you the intelligence to make your mind work well is very important so i come back to the mind when i played against arnold palmer and jack nicholas who were stronger than me and in their home country when i teed up i said man i'm going to beat you and it was in my mind that i believe that and if you don't believe in your mind you ain't going to do it because nobody's going to give you that so you've got to develop the mind you can't only go to the gym and develop your body you've got to do exercises and reading and thought processes to strengthen the mind i would love to take would be the most wonderful challenge for me to take a man like tiger woods who is the most talented golfer the world has ever seen will he accomplish and become the best golfer ever only the lord knows i don't know he's got the ability but will he but would i love to sit down with him for one hour and give him a piece of my knowledge what would you say no i can't tell you what i'd say um but then i think he could win majors i wouldn't talk to him a lot about the swing i would talk to him quite a bit about this thing because he's got flaws there's a reason why he's not the same tiger woods anymore there's a reason and i reckon i could get those things across to him that would make a massive change in life because i've had so much experience which will take him another 40 50 years to get so it'll take him at least another 50 years to get and i've got this in the in the bank but you can't walk around volunteering volunteering to help everybody but the mind is such an important thing and then you see nerves now they've barred this long putter for example best thing the USGA and RNA ever did but they tell you you've got three years grace should have been six weeks it's wrong bar it either you're pregnant or you're not you can't be half pregnant and the butter you used your entire career 35 years was one you bought for what five dollars for five dollars in japan but and then they not only stop the long putter which i'm a hundred percent in agreement with but they stop it from the average joe from using it now the average joe's got yups he can't play unless he uses this so they're going to stop him let him use it let the amateurs have all the technology because golf rounds are going down graham they're going down and let me tell you if you stop an average guy from that they're going to be a lot of rounds go down even more.

32:22So we've got to make intelligent decisions. Jack Nicholas, I read an interesting quote he gave about you in your game. He said, there was nothing really exceptional about Gary's game except his desire to win. I don't think Gary was a great driver of the ball. I don't think he was a great iron player. He was a good putter, not a great putter but when he really needed to be he was a great driver a great iron player and he made the putt when he needed to make it well isn't that what you want your thoughts yeah no that's a great compliment uh because you got to do it when it's necessary right you know you could be a shadow boxer and i remember all saying when they boxed against muhammad ali man i'm gonna knock him out i'm gonna do this i'm gonna dodge and all that when they got in the ring they couldn't do it and not any did he said listen my man for shouting your mouth off in round four you're going to hit the floor.

33:16In round six, there's going to be a mix. In round seven, you'll think you wished you were in heaven. And those rounds, he knocked them out. So he did it when it was important. They have an old saying, shadow boxers never win. And so you don't want to shadow box and say, I'll do this or I'll be this or that. When it counts is when you've got to do it. That's what champions do, don't they? So it's a great compliment. Great compliment indeed. Growing up, you mentioned... I want to say something in large on that. Imagine if these American pros, Nicklaus, Palmer, Trevino, Watson, Raymond Floyd, Hale Irwin, you can go down the line of all these, Billy Casper, all their...

34:01And if I leave somebody's name out, I'm sorry. But all these good players in my time. If they had had to travel 40 hours from South Africa, five, six times a year, okay? 40 hours, stop four times, no jets, sit up like this, children traveling on some occasions, six starting off from two, and have to travel and play in those countries with time changes and go to Australia and all in Japan and India and all these places and play. Imagine if I never had to have done that and I just lived in America, how many more majors out of one? Because I was second in seven majors. Imagine if I had lived here, how much better I would have done.

34:42Nobody ever takes that into consideration. Well, right, because you were living in South Africa, and I was actually speaking to your son Mark about this the other day. If you had made the decision to up and move with your family to Florida, how much of an impact do you think that would have made on your statistics? Massive difference. But then I wouldn't have... I always had a desire to have the best world record, which I have. That's everywhere around the world, not the best American record. and I achieved that but had I lived in America I would have had to the desire to have won the most majors and I would have been able to be here not fly in a couple of weeks before and fly out I never played in many PGA championships because I had to get back home to South Africa so that's a big big thing but you know it's like saying everybody says the best hitter player that ever lived is Rod Laver I mean excuse me is Federer but they don't understand yes on record he is but Rod Laver won two Grand Slams.

35:37Graham, he was not allowed to play in the major championships in the Grand Slam events because he was a pro for five years. That means for 20 majors in his prime, he was not allowed to play. Then you come to Ben Hogan. A man called Patrick Reed the other day said, oh, Tiger Woods is the best player that ever lived. And he doesn't understand. I mean, I have respect for his opinion and he was a phenomenal Ryder Cup player. I wish all the team are like him. But I answered, I said, do you know that Ben Hogan won nine majors and he went to war for five years? Then he had an accident. So for eight years, he couldn't play in a major championship, basically with any substance.

36:17That's 32 majors and he's prime of his life. Imagine telling Tiger Woods when he'd won five or four or six majors, you're going to war for five years. A young man can't comprehend that. And that you will have an accident and you won't play. You know what I mean? It makes people, people are very quick to say who's the best. Yeah, I want to take you back to when you were growing up. You mentioned your mother earlier. She obviously passed away when you were eight from cancer. How do you think that impacted you early on? Well, it was devastating, to say the least, because I adored my mother. And I have such wonderful memories of her hugging me and teaching me so many things.

37:01I was smoking. And she said, come on. She said, you're smoking? I said, yes, I am, Mom. She said, well, she didn't give me a blast. She said, let's come and sit down, because she was a smoker. She said, you know, I smoke as well. Let's sit down and have a cigarette together. I thought, well, this is neat. So I stared down, and she lit the cigarette, and I smoked it. And she said, you enjoy it? I said, yes. And she said, now, you've got to be able to do this properly if you're going to smoke. Blow it through your nose. And I took this big huff and blew it through my nose, and I started to cough and I coughed and I coughed and I never smoked again in my life.

37:35Really? Yeah. And she gave me all the love and she said, stand up when a lady comes in the room. Take your hat off when you go inside. Don't wear your hat inside and get a good education. I can vividly remember all the holding my hand, walking with me and taking me to tea in a little beautiful restaurant in Johannesburg. Wonderful memories. and you know Hitler Hitler said give me a child until he's 10 and he's mine which he did he brainwashed children as you know during the war and so you know even though your mother dies at eight it's devastating and the biggest tragedy of my life but subsequently the difficulties that are encountered, there was a plan.

38:24And the suffering made me a world champion. You thought this was your run club era. Turns out, it was more of a thinking about run club era. The good news? Someone's marathon training is about to start. Sell your workout gear on Depop. Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest. They get their race day fit and you get a pay out for trying. Someone on Depop wants what you've got. Start selling now. Depop, where taste recognizes taste. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You know those friends who support your preference for podcasts over music on road trips? That's the energy State Farm brings to insurance.

39:08With over 19 ,000 local agents, they help you find the coverage that fits your needs so you can spend less time worrying about insurance and more time enjoying the ride. Download the State Farm app or go online at statefarm.com. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Why do you think you had a reoccurring dream throughout your life about your mom? I don't know. I suppose I missed her so much. In fact, I woke up crying even at the age of, I can remember the last time, 32 years of age, wake up crying for my mother because it was such an imprint, such a wonderful love. And what is God? Whatever your God is, if you're a Muslim, if you're a Jew, if you're a Christian, whatever your God is, is a God of love.

39:53He's not a God of killing and a God of hatred. We've been told he's a God of hatred and things like that nowadays, but he's not. He's a God of love. And, you know, my mother, I just think of my mother and it meant so much to me. How much would you have liked to have had her be able to see all the success you've had? Well, you can't be greedy in life, but my dad saw me win all the majors. He saw me win the Grand Slam. My mother never saw me hit a golf ball. That's how sad it is. But she does up there. She's seen it. Your father worked in the mines. Tell about what he did. well he worked down in a gold mine and worked 10 ,000 feet underground and we started off at six and later went down deep made a hundred pounds a month I remember him coming up from underground I went to meet him and we were sitting in this locker room iron concrete furrow here with water running down he took his big boots off and poured out the water and I said where'd you get this water?

40:58He said, that's not water, that's perspiration. That temperature down there, now it's all air conditioned. I took Arnold Palmer and his mother and father and Mark McCormack, who was head of IMG. Right, the legendary agent that represented you, Jack and Arnold. Magician. Genius. I took them all down the mine. Arnold came up, it was fascinating, where he came up after being down there, and to see one, and any time you've got a gold Rolex like I have now, or anything gold in your teeth, you better appreciate it. Because for every 12 tons of rock, I think I'm correct in saying every 8 tons of rock, one ounce of gold.

41:36It's something, the comparison is amazing. So you see those people working in those gold mines. It's pretty rough. We came up and they had all the gold bars in the room. There's probably a billion dollars in gold in this room. Massive room. And this man stood there and he said, anybody who can pick up a gold bar can have it. so I said Arnold said ask him if I can try now did you ever see Arnold Palmer's hands his little finger was the size of my index finger okay today you could still he said yeah you can have a try and Arnold put his hand on the gold bar and picked it up this guy's eyes went like he started stuttering I only work here Palmer said my man you did work here you fired this is mind, baby.

42:18So, you know, it was fascinating. So, I mean, around this time when you were growing up, your father was working in the mines. Your mother had passed away. Your sister was off at boarding school and your brother was in, you know, fighting in the war. To what extent were you alone a lot around that time growing up? Very good question. But can you imagine, you know, having 22 grandchildren, 15 American grandchildren and seven South African grandchildren, any time, and several of them, four of them already turned past 17. And every time one of them was their 17th birthday, never failed. I thought of my brother.

43:01He went to war when he was 17 to fight with the British and the Americans from South Africa. And President Eisenhower had dinner with him and he said you know the greatest friend we have in the world in the world today two countries england and south africa and i said why south africa he says you fought in every war with us korea everywhere and he says you borrow money from us and you pay it back you have a triple a rating and he says you love us i never forget that having dinner with president eyes now I think our favorite, our country's favorite country now is China. It's changed with governments changing.

43:43Right or wrong, I don't know. But things do change in the world. How difficult was it for you to get to school on a daily basis growing up? Wow. I lived a long way from school. That was quite a pity. I lived a long way because my father was in the middle. It wasn't like you got dropped off at a bus stop. Well, I had to get up. I mean, took the school bus, I mean, the school. I get up at five o 'clock. Now, I've got to wake myself up at five with an alarm clock. I've got to cook my own breakfast, you know. I've got to take a tram, which you call a streetcar, and I've got to go into town. It stops at all the places, and I get off, and I walk across town.

44:23You know, we shudder when we think, with all the pedophiles and things that are going on in the world today. you couldn't do that today anymore and i walk across right across town at the age of eight i then get on a bus a double-decker bus and i drive all the way out to my school called king edward the seventh school then i participate in debating or gymnastics we had to exercise and this is what i'm dying to see happen in america again if it ever will exercise at school every day and then I'd participate in my respective sports and then I'd get on that bus another hour and a half I'd get home house is dark nobody there imagine at eight to nine years of age make a little bit of what we call putu which was like grits okay and a bit of fruit or something that my father made sure I had some food in the house and occasionally he was there and he'd help me but most of the time I'd have to do it myself I'd have to take my first thing I did on a Friday take my shoes off and put them there neatly and take my school clothes.

45:28I had to have a uniform. I wasn't allowed to go to school in brown shoes. It had to be black shoes, gray socks, gray pants, white shirt, no blue shirt, a tie, jacket and a hat. Put them all, fold them up neatly. And if they're out of place, I try and eye them. So this taught me so much. It prepared me for life. Little did I realize that I thought, how this is so tough. Man, I mean, you know, I really felt sorry for myself in a way. It was tough. You had to take care of yourself. I had to take care of myself. And in retrospect, it was the best thing that ever happened to me, not my mom dying, but all these other things.

46:04It stood me in such good stead. And it gave me respect for people. When I saw a black man in the street in South Africa, even in apartheid, and he was sweeping the street, I'd stop there with my car. And I was rich, and I'd say, my friend, he has 50 bucks. What? 50 bucks? And I'd say, and I'd call him sir. And I'd say, sir, you are doing such a job here. What would we do if we never had you cleaning these streets? And there's a man in America right now, Mr. Anschutz. He's doing these wonderful programs on TV. Every person listening to this interview today should insist on their children listening every day to one of his values.com you see a girl get out of a car and she's leaving for university and her father's standing there she says bye dad he says bye and she stops and she opens the car and she goes back she says dad bye love you very much and you see a tear in his eye she gets back in the car just about ago she jumps out again she said dad thank you for everything you've ever done for me in my life.

47:20Now you know what that means to a parent? When you devote your life to your children, so many children tell their parents what to do. I reckon 40 % of homes today in the free world, children tell their parents what to do. They need a damn good whack. No, it never did them any harm. I'm not saying you whack them like some of these other guys have been doing with blood coming out, but occasional whack is a damn good thing, and to stop them in their footprints when they're being out of place. But they've accepted. It's no harm. Let them do what they like. So your father only borrowed money twice.

47:57You remember what it was for? Yes. When I was going overseas to England, he borrowed money to buy me a set of clubs. I'll never forget. They were a set of Wilson turf rider clubs. I thought I'd died and gone to heaven when I saw the... I can still remember opening the box and they were brown and what they looked like. Have I ever thought I'd use a club like Callaway's today? I mean, it was incomprehensible. And then he borrowed money to help me go overseas, and he got an overdraft in the bank, and I eventually met the bank manager. His name was Mr. Smuts. Now, you're going back 60 years plus, and I remember the bank manager's name, and he said, you know that your father had an overdraft to help you go overseas?

48:42and then I remember arranging to meet him at the bank at 11 o 'clock and I got there at five past 11 and he was gone and I went to the old box and I put in a scent scent and phoned him I said dad I'm here at the bank we're supposed to be here today he says what time did you arrive there I said five past 11 he says what time did we arrange to meet I said 11 he said son I was there at 11 and I left. What a lesson to learn. And golf, golf teaches you such a lesson if you're two seconds late, I've only been penalized once in my life for being late and that was at Tampa, Florida. My caddy told me I was off at a certain time and he was wrong.

49:22And I ran to the tee and I teed off and walking down the fairway, the PGA official came down and said, Gary, I'm sorry, there's a two-shot pedal. You were two seconds late. And the other time I was playing in Greensboro and they were playing in the Greensboro tournament and I was something like five, six shots ahead of Arnold Palmer with one round to go. We were playing 36 holes on the last day because the one day was rained out. And they told us we'd have 35 minutes for lunch. I got in there in the morning, shot 67, had this massive lead over Palmer. And I went to sign my scorecard, which I'm very meticulous about.

49:54I walked one yard out of the tent. One yard. I thought, I didn't sign that. I walked back, just one yard, one step. Went back, I signed it. got on the first tee I thought you know I might not have been able to do that so I sent a message back with walkie talkie to the PJ official he came out I said Jack I'm just calling you I want to let you know I moved out of the tent by one step just pack your bags what boy golf is tough if life could be run like the golf tour America would have the future ahead of it not not maybe not maybe I'm not saying definitely but maybe behind it. On the money front, your first few years as a pro, you were, I think, making like$60 a month.

50:42You occasionally had to hitchhike to tournaments. How well do you recall borrowing your wife's brother's pants once because you couldn't afford the clothes you wanted? Well, I remember those things, and I remember I met my wife. It's interesting. I met my wife exactly 64 years ago. I was 14 and she was 13. And I was standing in my house in a very poor suburb and we had neighbours next door from England. And they played golf and Vivian, my wife's father, was a golf pro and her mother played very well. And so my stepbrother said to me, look over the wall, you want to see this little chick here. I stood on a rock and looked over, you won't believe this, Graeme, and I looked at her and I said, you see that girl, Christopher?

51:27I said, I'm going to marry that girl. He said, are you sick? Are you crazy? You just saw a girl. You tell me you're going to marry her? I said, yeah. Well, I did. And I started playing golf with her. And she had two holes in one round. Two holes in one in one round once. Right. We played a round of golf when I was master's champion in 1961. I played her even. She was off the ladies' tees and I was off the men's tees. I shot 69 and I lost. That's when I decided to have six children to stop her practicing. She did two handicapped, didn't she, as a golfer? She could really play. One more money question about the financial struggles early on.

52:06But I never answered your question with$30 a month. I made$30 a month, and I bought her a set of Beverly Hanson Ladies Woods,$29. So what about the pants that you wore? Oh, the pants. Well, I borrowed pants from a lot of people. I borrowed socks from a lot of people. You know, when I wore the shoes out, the little hole there, I put a bit of cardboard. with cardboard in my shoe. Really, I mean, you know, it's hard to tell people this today because it exists in a lot of countries, but in this great country, the land of milk and honey and the land of entitlement and a land of people not wanting to work so more and a land of people getting all these things and not, well, there are certain people in this country that are suffering, but when you make a comparison to other countries, no.

52:58How well do you recall where you slept for your first British Open? Well, I arrive at the British Open and I go by train. Now Tiger Woods and Ernie Els and Phil Mickelson all flying in their jets. Which is great. I love that, that they're all doing well. I love the fact they're all making money. Wonderful that they're playing on good golf courses with great equipment and big money. Wonderful. But I arrive there and I've got 200 pounds. That's my total wealth. Two pairs of pants, two shirts, no belt like this. and black knitted tie, which holds my pants up, and I wear the tie at night. I can't get a room under 80 pounds, 50 pounds, expensive.

53:38But there was available, but I didn't know where. So I went and slept on the beach where they did Chariots of Fire. Slept on the beach, my waterproofs, head on my pillow on my golf bag, beautiful evening. Next day, I got a room right opposite. I was watching the Dunhill tournament the other day, and I said to my wife, there's the hotel I stayed in, right opposite the green. and I went and I got a room for 10 shillings and sixpence. That's$1.50. And the next day I went down to the manager, I said, you know, there are bugs in my bed. He said, son, what do you expect for 10 shillings and six? Butterflies?

54:10Technology. You've said before that, I mean, technology is essentially destroying the game. Very much so. Why do you believe that? Well, we need technology amongst the amateurs, the weekend golfers. There should be no limit with them. Let them use what they like because these are the people we're enticing to play the game of golf and rounds are going down. Now we come out with a ball that goes 50 yards further than when I played and 80 yards further than when Bobby Jones played and we've got grooves on the clubs. We've got a metal head that doesn't. I played yesterday at nearly 80 years of age after having my second round of golf in a month.

54:53I never missed a fairway. I said to my caddy, for every fairway I miss today, I'll give you$50. And he never made a cent at nearly this age. So now what happens is, and why the ball has killed the game, because pros go to little clubs from here to Timbuktu to Australia to South Africa to America to England, and the pros hitting a drive and a 7-iron at the par 5, and the committee say, how can we have a golf course for you? A par 5 is a drive and a 7-iron, or a wedge. as Bubba Watson had a wedge to the 13th green at Augusta and a 9-9 over the 15th green at Augusta par 5. He couldn't hit the ball further than Jack Nicklaus did.

55:31You put Jack Nicklaus and Bob Watson together in their prime, same distance. Same club, same ball. So now all these clubs are changing. Do you know how much money the world has spent on changing their golf courses in the last 20 years? Hundreds of millions of dollars. If we took that$200 million and put it into the youth to improve golf and get more people playing and golf programs, how healthy would golf be right now? Why do you have to change these beautiful golf courses that exist? They're even changing St. Andrews, the home of golf, unnecessarily so. Just cut the ball back for the pros. It costs a mere pittance.

56:06If you cut the back, you might have titlists say, well, we have the best ball in the market. We're not prepared to cut it back. Callaway say, we have the best ball. And let me tell you, there's not allowed to be a difference of golf balls in distance on the tour because they're all regulated. They go through a testing machine. The one who sells the most is the one who does the best marketing and has the best money and the most money for marketing So if they cut the ball back, it's not going to affect their sales whatsoever And then it'll bring golf back to where it has to be where you don't spend Look at Augusta.

56:37Can you imagine what Augusta spent to change their golf course? It wasn't necessary Just cut the ball back for the pros and the pros wouldn't complain about it. They wouldn't complain They'd want to see the golf be better for everybody concerned You have one new message. Translating. Disney and Pixar's Hoppers is now available on Disney+. You could say that again. Critics are calling it Pixar's funniest movie ever and a wildly entertaining ride. Blizzard Potato. It's certified fresh and verified hot. Now we party. This is incredible! Wow, I am clear in the rest of the day. Disney and Pixar's Hoppers, now available on Disney+.

57:21I get so many headaches every month. It could be chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more. Botox, on a botulinum toxin A, prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those who have 14 or fewer headache days a month. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk.

57:52Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert-Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor. Visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more. To what extent do you think that's what's most responsible for the decline in the sport?

58:27Well, first of all, when you make a golf course 600 yards longer, as I mentioned today before we started our interview, any young man of your age, you'll remember what this interview one day, there are going to be fights about water in the United States of America. Never mind other countries that virtually have no water. America is going to have no water. When I say no water, there are going to be massive fights over water in this country. It's already starting. California has no water. Nevada are already struggling. So the water, when you build a golf course longer, you need way more water. You need way more fertilizer.

59:05I'm a farmer. I know what I'm talking about. Fertilizer is detrimental to the soil over a length of time. You want to use normal compost, normal manure to put in your lands, but nobody can afford to do that, so they put in compost, artificial, I mean, fertilizer. Then you've got machinery. Do you know what machines cost for a golf course, the amount of money they'd spend? Now they change the golf courses, undulating greens, bunkers in front of the greens, making it long. So a lady member says, I'm not enjoying this. That's why when I design golf courses, I make the greens soft, no bunkers in front, wide fairways.

59:40So members can enjoy it. We're not important, the pro golfer. The member, the average lady in Joe, the people that keep the game going, not the pros. We're not important compared to they are. So all this amount of money. Then the members resign because the course is too tough. You've changed my beautiful golf course I had. Then what happens? They don't have the membership. Now they're leaving you. So it's one thing on another. It's compounded. And so many people are not playing now. It's a tragedy that there are people there. and I love the USGA and I love the RNA and I love the PGA, but can't they see this?

1:00:15And this will be on tape in years to come. People will say, Gary Player was right. They will change that golf ball. They will have to because you haven't had a LeBron James play golf yet or a Michael Jordan on the tour and they'll hit it 450 yards. And when I mentioned 10 years ago, 15 years ago, players will be hitting the ball 400 yards, they scoffed at me. Impossible. They couldn't visualize this. Well, at our charitable day near Augusta this year, we had Jamie Sadlowski hit 10 drive, all over 400 yards. You're going to find men. We never had these men come out, man. You ever see this long driving competition?

1:00:52They built Luck Tarzan. We haven't had them come out yet. With regards to today's players, you've obviously said before, I would have loved to have made the prize money that players are making today. but you also in the same note said, I'm really glad I didn't because it's completely destroyed the camaraderie and closeness among the players. Why do you think that is? I wouldn't say it's destroyed the camaraderie. I'm a big admirer of the young guys. I'm a big admirer of the tour. I never look at it with envy. I'm delighted they're making a million dollar first prize. I'm delighted they have Jets.

1:01:27We all worked Hogan before us, Bobby Jones before us, Arnold Jack and the rest of us all. try to promote the game so these guys could have this and they're doing their share for the next generation. But you guys would all travel together. Yeah, but it was a different world. And the world changes. Changes the price of survival. I used to stay at people's homes with my family during a tournament. Can you imagine telling Ricky Fowler or one of these young guys, not Ricky Fowler, somebody who has three kids, you and your three kids are going to stay privately for three weeks in a row on the tour. That wouldn't happen.

1:02:02And there's nothing detrimental about that. It's just a different time. They have the money. You can be 125th on the U.S. tour today and be a millionaire. Nobody was a millionaire. Nobody ever won a million dollars when we were playing in a tournament. Arnold Palmer won the first tournament. It was$100 ,000. $100 ,000 first prize. It was unheard of. You can be an ordinary player today and be a very... You can be a nice golfer today and be a millionaire. You couldn't be a nice golfer in our time and win a millionaire and be a millionaire. What do you think of Rory McIlroy? He is a wonderful young man, a wonderful representative of golf, and the best golfer in the world.

1:02:45I can't speak highly enough about him. He's a terrific young guy. And with the right thought process and training, he's got an opportunity. He's got an opportunity of going down as the best golfer that ever lived. You really think so? Oh, he's got a very good chance. It's up to him now. It depends on the path that he goes on. And he's got a wonderful parents. And you need wonderful management to help direct you. And too many managers are yes men with their players. They know they're not doing the right things, but they're scared to tread on their toes because they might be fired or they might be argumentative about it.

1:03:26If I'm a manager of a sportsman, I'm going to say, you did this wrong, you did that wrong, now listen, you stop or you get yourself another manager. But the old thing, money talks. So, but as long as Rory has all these things and makes, the word is CTR, choose the right, which he will do. And as long as he does that, he's got a chance to be the best player the world has ever seen. He will be the next player, in my opinion, to win the Grand Slam. He's only got to win the Masters, which is made for him. There's never been a golf course that's made for a man more than it is for Rory. What do you think of Tiger?

1:04:06Well, Tiger is the most talented golfer that ever lived. Without a question, I honestly believe whether he'll reach Jack Nicklaus's majors is debatable. Nobody knows. Time will tell. I'm going to give you a very interesting scenario. If Tiger Woods, once he won the US Open by 15 shots, if Tiger Woods never had a lesson from another pro in his life, I'm not condemning the pros because those pros were pretty intelligent. Hank Hady and these other teachers that he's had, they're pretty good. But Tiger was so good. He was so much better than anybody who plays today. He was so much better on the way that anybody that ever lived, he could never hit the ball like Ben Hogan.

1:04:51Never. Not even close. but that's not what counts it's scoring I'm talking about scoring winning Tiger Woods if he never had another lesson just left what he had he would have won 20 22 24 majors but he's also been unlucky knee operations back operation and a few other problems so will he come back as a champion? I really hope so because the game needs Tiger Woods because it helps me, it helps golf manufacturers, it helps young people in countries where they're not all white, South Africa, where the majority are black, Africa, the world of people of different colors. We need, we need a black man to be a champion.

1:05:37It was marvelous for me in my career and time, which I never thought I'd ever see. I never thought I'd ever see a black man be president or in my country. We come along Mandela this wonderful human being. I never thought I'd see a woman ever be prime minister. This incredible lady, Margaret Thatcher. Wow, does the world, the free world, need a Margaret Thatcher today? Number three, I never thought I'd ever see a black man president of America. I never ever thought I'd see a black man who is the best golfer in the world. Vijay Singh and Tiger Woods. I never thought I'd ever see these things. I'm so blessed to have been able to see the things in the last 79, 80 years.

1:06:15I want to speak about a few moments from your golf career. And I loved this. Alistair was telling me about this the other day. One of your master's victories, you know, your family, which lived in South Africa, had come over to Augusta, was at Augusta at the course, but didn't actually bother going out to the course, was inside watching it on television. Yes. Explain why. Well, because when you've got six children, how do you take all six children to walk around Augusta? How can you do that? So now you want to take one? Well, why are you favoring me? So we can watch it on TV and you'll all see it and we'll enjoy dad's success.

1:06:55And if he wins, we'll make a point of being there. And you guys didn't have TV in South Africa? No, until 1974, I think it was. No TV. It's so sad for me that the South African population couldn't see me winning all these world titles. It's a shame. What I did was, can you believe this? I bought a film of the Masters, and I hired a man. I've been the best ambassador, or one of the best ambassadors Augusta's ever had, if I say so myself. I got this film, and I hired a man, and I sent him around South Africa to all the golf clubs to go and show them the Masters, to show them what a great tournament it was.

1:07:34Bobby Jones, this great man. Clifford Roberts, this great disciplinarian. this beautiful golf course, the tradition, the discipline of this great tournament, the green jacket. And I paid him out of my own pocket to go and show the whole country. And you also famously won the Masters again at 44 years old. 42. Oh, 42. And, you know, 1978 to capture your ninth major. But a moment that really seems to have touched both you and Jack Nicholas wasn't one that you guys were actually playing in, but it was in fact where you guys were captaining competing teams in the President's Cup. What about that is so meaningful?

1:08:22Well, Jack and I had the same philosophy. It was amazing. Jack Nicholas said the statement, and he endorses it today. He says, The greatest moment of my golfing career was captaining the President's Cup in South Africa with Gary as an opposing captain. And we had President Mandela there, President Bush Sr. there. There was a representative from China. There was our President Mandela, our existing President at the time, President Mbeki and a host of other dignitaries. and there's a tie and they go in a sudden death playoff Ernie Els and Tiger Woods. I designed the golf course, one of the 10 toughest golf courses in the world.

1:09:06They par the first, they get on the second hole. It's an unbelievably tough par three. Ernie Els has got about a five footer straight up the hill. Tiger's got a 20 footer from the left of the green. I designed the green, he's got no chance. That putt breaks that much. I said, yeah guys, we've won Tiger knocked it right in the middle can you imagine thinking, even saying something about Tiger, this phenomenal competitor, and Ernie else knocked it in, so now everybody's getting ready to go in the next hole, it's getting dark it's Thanksgiving over here, if they play and nobody wins, they're not going to get back for Thanksgiving, so I think about these things, and I said, Jack we don't want a winner in this this has been too exciting this has been too good, can't we both win He said, yes, I love that idea.

1:09:53So we called Tim Fincham over, and we all agree, yes, it's getting dark, you're not going to be able to see. And Jack says, but we tie, we keep the trophy. I said, no, no, no, then we go on playing. Ernie Helson, the other guys agreed with me and my team, and Jack said, okay, he succumbed, it's a tie. And, you know, we were criticized. Well, there's always going to be criticism, and we mustn't think of a handful as against the majority. The majority said it was so great. There were a few people saying, how can you do that? Well, you cannot please everybody. The apartheid. I think it was a 1970 PGA tournament in Dayton, Ohio.

1:10:35To what extent did you actually legitimately fear for your life? Well, I feared for my life for two years, living under the apartheid government, which I didn't invent. in fact I broke apartheid in sport which most people in my country don't even know about I've never done an interview about this I'll come back to that in a minute of data I go to my prime minister at that time John Foster who was a great believer in apartheid I played golf with John Foster on about five occasions and I was condemned and criticized because I played with the man who believed in apartheid. But if I don't believe in communism, but if Mr.

1:11:15Xi Jinping, if that's how you pronounce it, in China asked me to play golf with him, I would play with him in respect of his presidency. But anyway, I took criticism. But luckily enough, I played with John Foster. And then I wanted to break apartheid in sport. And in those days, you had to be very careful. This was a tough government. So I asked Lee Elder, who Lee Elder has never been given the kudos, it was a word we use, or for the recognition, he's never been given recognition for doing this. He was put under tremendous strain by the Black Caucus and etc. etc. over here not to go to South Africa.

1:11:55And I went to my president, I said, Mr. President, Prime Minister at the time, I said, Mr. Foster, I want to break apartheid in sport. I'm a sportsman, I'm not a politician. I'd like, and he said, what would you like to do? And he had these big eyebrows. And I said, I'd like to invite a black golfer from America to come and play in our PGA, which is one of our majors. He looked at me like that. It seemed like a minute. And he said, go ahead. I said, because I really want to get rid of this apartheid in sport. And he said, go ahead. And Lee Elder came out, did a marvelous job. Now, presidents of America have given awards for sports awareness.

1:12:46But here's a man who did way more than any athlete ever did. As far as the recognition is concerned, he helped break apartheid, helped people from suffering like dogs. Leelder. For athletics, for their athletic prowess, they were given medals. But no, the president ever gave him a medal. It took a lot of guts for Lee Elder. He could have, let me tell you, he could have been shot. There's this apartheid feeling. Just as you had apartheid in America, and Charlie Sifford and others weren't allowed to play. When I played here, they were not allowed to play on the tour. They weren't allowed to play on the tour, man, damn it.

1:13:24And I'll never forget playing with Charlie Sifford at Greensboro. I was walking up the par four before the par five and I saw this guy kick Charlie Sillard's ball in the rough and I called the PGA and I said I saw this guy kick the ball in there he was able to replace it on the par three there was mutterings go home we don't want you here and man I stood up for him and he took his pencil and thumped it on the table he said how do you play with this going on I said Charlie I understand I'm from South Africa I understand what you're going through. And you know, he was known as mean, he was known as bitter, but by crikey, what he went through was tough.

1:14:03Imagine you want to play, you have the... And he had lots of talent and he wasn't allowed to play. And it's funny how as he so socially reap, who did Charlie Sifford when he was inducted into the Hall of Fame ask to induct him? A white man from South Africa, which was one of the greatest honors I ever had. And I was choked by that. that was really fantastic and he went on to be a very happy man I still phoned him a little bit he's going to pass away one of these days as we all are but he's made money and he's forgiven like Mandela forgave people and you cannot live with bitterness in your heart you've got to forgive if God forgives you must forgive and Mandela was a phenomenal man they're now not honoring his legacy to the degree they should in South Africa we've got young militants young militants now who are not carrying on with his legacy, which is a tragedy.

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1:15:42Try it with a rolled quesadilla and you will absolutely be, well, I don't want to give it away. You need to try it for yourself. New jalapeno citrus salsa, the sauce with main character energy. Get it with anything on the Cantina Chicken menu for a limited time, only at Taco Bell. At participating locations while supplies last. Before we get to that, back to the 1970s. I never answered what happened at Dayton. So now I've won nine major championships in the record book. But in my mind, I know I've won ten. Because I'm playing in the tournament, and I'd get to the top of my back string, and somebody would throw a book in my back, telephone book.

1:16:23Then I'd get on the green. This happened in the tournament. Get on the green. They're just ready to putt, and they'd throw two balls between my legs. Now, when you're wanting to win a major championship, think about this. It's hard to comprehend. And then on the ninth hole, I had a putt this long, 15 inches. And these guys were standing on the edge of the green, which they were allowed to do close in those days, and they all simultaneously shouted, Miss! As I brought the putter down, I missed the hole by that much. And then I got to the tenth hole, and I was playing with Jack Nicklaus, and these guys charged out of the mounds onto the green and the police were grabbing them and the guys skidded like it and tore up the green.

1:16:59And then I got to the 10th hole and they threw ice in my eyes. This is how I had to play. And I lost, I think, by one or two shots to Raymond Floyd. Young guys playing the tour don't even know about that. How would you explain the criticism and, you know, kind of the vitriol that was directed your way then? Well, you incline. the one thing I'd learned by that time, you know, don't feel sorry for yourself. But it is sad for a person. When I was in South Africa, I broke the apartheid in sport. I sponsored at least seven black golfers, sponsored many of the black golfers to play overseas, got tournaments for them in those days.

1:17:40They weren't allowed to play in a white tournament. And I went to my business friends and we got a hundred thousand. We sponsored three tournaments. But whatever you did was never enough according to certain black militants in south africa gary player didn't do enough he should have stopped playing which i was not prepared to do i was not prepared to stop my livelihood i did what i could do which i felt was a lot more than other athletes were doing and that i'd ever seen done in other countries but it was never enough really but that's like the bullfighter manueletti when he dodged the bull it came closer and closer and they said not good enough until the bull killed him.

1:18:19And Winston Churchill said, why does he hate me? What have I done for him lately? No good deed goes unpunished. But I knew that I did an awful lot. And obviously you did a tremendous amount. But in fairness to some of the people that criticized you early on, your views changed over the years as well. Because I think it was like your first book or one of your early books, you wrote, you were a believer of the apartheid system of government then and, you know, the separation of races. Why do you think you believed that? Well, because Muhammad Ali in America was saying we must live, the blacks must live in different states.

1:19:00And our government was saying to us, it was very similar to Germany. We were brainwashed to a great extent and we were told by our government this will be now i'm a young man i haven't had a world experience that this will be separate but equal so i thought well you know if it's going to be separate but equal that's not so bad they'll have the equal that we have there'll be no real problem but it wasn't so they were pulling the wool over our eyes so we were brainwashed and then I also said something about the number of people playing golf well there were any of those when I was a young man at this age I doubt if we had 10 million people in South Africa I don't know what the number was and no blacks played golf anyway it was only whites anyway so it was a complete different circumstance altogether so it was it was really amazing how a government how a government could brainwash you can understand what happened in Germany.

1:19:57After I grew up and travelled and saw what was happening, I came to America there was apartheid here, so I didn't learn much here, but I learnt a lot going to England. It was a very civilised society, they didn't have anything like that. So I was travelling and a lot of places that didn't have it, and I learnt an awful lot. And then you sit back and you say, wow, what did Germany do? How did they brainwash a nation? It's incredible. And I was talking to Alistair about this because he's telling me about how you and him would have debates about this then. And he's like, you know, Gary at one point thought, you know, all blacks were communists in South Africa.

1:20:38Well, that's what they were telling us. Yeah. How did your views change? No, he's not quite right because my father spoke three black languages fluently. And I had wonderful friends that were blacks. I never said all blacks are communist. But we were told when the war started on our borders that these were, because Cuba was helping South Africa and they were communistic, and they were saying, oh, well, those blacks are also communistic. And if they were, you couldn't have blamed them. I don't believe in communism because communism has failed miserably. I mean, I built a golf course in Bulgaria.

1:21:17If you heard those people talk about communism, you'd shudder. I built a golf course in Poland. if you heard those people talk about communism you would shudder so i've been to places and you saw where communism has just crumbled and people talk about china with communism yes but if you been to china does that look like communist when you go to china mercedes bmws big buildings big golf courses big houses that's not what communism is i mean i'm telling you it's crumbling rapidly and I don't know what the right answer is. Winston Churchill said democracy is the best system. It's not the ideal system, but it's the best until something comes along.

1:22:01And then I go back to President Eisenhower that said something that I love democracy, but he said something that is applying today. He said, I'm a great believer in freedom. As long as we don't go over the brink of freedom into the category of lack of discipline and the free world has done that with their wonderful freedom has gone over that brink now thinking that freedom means you can do what you like and you cannot you've got to have responsibility so you know it's all circums or it's all circumstances at the time but i never ever said no all blacks are communists because actually as a young man i loved blacks i didn't have any didn't have any bad feeling because they were my friends.

1:22:44I played golf with them. And so, not that. But we were told. We were brainwashed. And there were black communists on our border. Very strongly so, with the Cubans. But we were brainwashed that we were fighting black communism and communism was going to take over South Africa. And we were brainwashed that it was going to take over South Africa, which it never did. What led to you making the decision to, you know, speak out against the system of government? Very simple, because when you have the education and you're not a young man that doesn't know anything, and suddenly you get educated and you travel and you go along and you see brilliant people like, you know, I always remember they had a man called Andrew Young.

1:23:28He's still alive today in Atlanta. Brilliant man. And I listened to that man speak. And my minister of that time, a man called Pik Boerter, came home, And I met him, and he said, you know, Gary, we've been so wrong. This is a man who is highly part of apartheid. He said, the most brilliant man I've met today is Andrew Young of Atlanta. He said, listen to him talk. Man, he was magnificent. Young people today might not know much about Andrew Young. Do you know him? I'm unfamiliar with the story. It's understandable. You Google Andrew Young and see what he did, the marches he did and the way he spoke.

1:24:08and so you with education it's an educational policy and then you leave south africa and you're not insular and you're not being brainwashed you can form your own opinion uh nelson mandela um what most impressed you about him uh first of all his humility but the most important thing is love that's the thing first time i met him he wasn't president i went up to his office and he requested to meet me which was a great honor and he said i have asked you to come and see me because when i was in jail you in cape town said that they should release me and he said which i appreciated and he said i am aware that you sponsored all these black golfers to go overseas which I appreciate and he said I am now going to rule the country and bring everybody together I want people who've left South Africa to come back home which not, some did some did and I said but surely you must hate the white he sat in jail for 20 years man and you had a house arrest for five whatever it was and he said Gary you see this green apple here he said that green apple is green on the outside and ripe on the inside it's juicy if i have hatred and non-forgiveness in my heart i will be the green apple on the outside but rotten on the inside and he says i don't have a long time to live i want to have pleasant thoughts i want to be juicy and sweet and he says god forgives who am i not to forgive if we want to go ahead can we live with bitterness and hatred nothing exists permanently with any success on hatred and bitterness and he said my job is to bring people together and this must never ever happen again but there's now talk with young militants take the farms away from the South African farmers nationalize the mines nationalize this the banks national well it's never been a success it's never been a success why do they want to go back and break down everything that mandela stood for we the world suddenly hated us and now the world suddenly loved us through one man it's really it's been a an interesting existence for me to live through these different eras to see what's happened uh do golf uh digest in 2000 had reached out to you know then president President Mandela to see if he wanted to write up a little something on you.

1:26:59And he ended up writing up a pretty big tribute to you. What an honor. It must have been in the end of it. He said, and I quote, Mr. Player also was voted one of the top five most influential people in our nation's history. His accomplishments as a humanitarian and statesman are equal to and may even surpass his accomplishments as an athlete. that is a legacy that will last forever. Yeah, and I tell you. What did that mean to you? That meant a world to me, a world to me from a man who was the greatest man that I, I think Billy Graham and Nelson Mandela are the two greatest men that I've met. I have heroes like Lee Kuan Yew, who I think may be the best leader the world's ever seen.

1:27:50maybe because the people live like people want to live in safety and have an education and a job and a home and not debt etc etc etc but you know I think of Winston Churchill I think of Mother Teresa I think of Mahatma Gandhi another hero of mine what he did and accomplished is not possible to fast and stopped 1.2 billion people from being violent. One man stopped that. But I never met these guys, but I met Nelson Mandela, President Nelson Mandela. And I met Billy Graham. And I see what he did going around the world, preaching with such a genuine, wonderful man. And, you know, you can either believe in God or you cannot believe in God.

1:28:43And you have many atheists. but I never saw believing in God do any harm. Now if you were going to believe in something, drugs or killing people, that's harm. But believing and having a faith is the most important thing in my life. Now why we can't go to school? One lady in Texas stopped prayers in school in America. What was the rule in America? On the coin it said, in God we trust. Now why take prayers out of a school? It's not doing any harm. Now devise it, be intelligent and say, okay, we now have Muslims in school, we have Jews in school, we have Christians, we have Hindus. So we won't make a prayer that suits one group.

1:29:28We'll just say, in God. It could be Allah, it could be a Jewish God, it could be a Hindu, whatever they want to pray. But we thank you, dear Lord, for this wonderful country we live in, the opportunities that we have in this great country, and we appreciate what we have in this country. Amen. Isn't that logic that everybody can pray to their God at the same time and say thank you? Isn't one of the most important things in your life gratitude? Shouldn't we, I tell young boys at schools when I lecture them over here, every day you wake up, you should kiss the damn ground. And I tell them the chances of you being a champion are very remote.

1:30:10They say, why? I say, because you have television you have a shower you have white sheets you have three meals a day you go to school you've got clothes you've got food and they start snickering and then suddenly I say damn it most kids in the world don't have one of those they may have a TV set they may have a TV set but a lot of places eat rats for breakfast and lunch and dinner and they don't understand this and that's why America the best golfers are not coming from America now it'll change with his first tee program, it'll change. But at the moment, the best golfers, as we see in the Ryder Cup, are not coming from America.

1:30:50And in tennis, the best facilities, the best coaches, the most money, no American champion tennis players. Why? There's a reason. It's not just maybe. These other people are hungry. You've got two people with equal ability. The one is hungry. He practices hard. He'll make sacrifices. He'll have the discipline. He's going to kick your butt. Your property. and you have gorgeous and extensive property, obviously, but there was a story I heard that I thought was hilarious. You're driving from Johannesburg to your farm with your agent and wife. It's like a 300-mile drive, and you run out of gas. Comcast is delivering extraordinary experiences in live sports through the incredible broadcast and storytelling from NBC, innovative and personalized viewing features on Xfinity and Peacock and the country's most reliable wifi.

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1:32:33Well, I said I need a mulligan. My dad used to give me hell. for doing that. I mean, you know, I'd save every bit of money I could to the last minute. This is when I first started. I made, as I said,$30 a month. Well, didn't like cops come, you were siphoning, hiding under the car? Oh yeah, the cops came and they sucked the gas out of their car with that old pipe and put it into my eye just to get to the gas station. And it reminded me of my dad. He used to have a heart attack. Here he was pushing my car. I had this little car and he'd always at the end of the month say, well here's 20 bucks. You promised me you'd use this 20 bucks to put gas in your car, but don't ask me to push it.

1:33:16How much time will you take off each year to just be able to work on the farm? Well I used to travel 11 months of the year and then take a month off and then and sometimes I might go back to South Africa and take two weeks off. But I've been a workaholic, and even today I'm a workaholic. But I'm also a holidayaholic. On my ranch, it's one of the most beautiful ranches in the world. I have my own nine-hole golf course. I have a game reserve. The nine-hole golf course is in the game reserve. And I have thoroughbred racehorses. And there's no pollution. 124 species of birds which I can call them I can call birds and they actually come I talk to them, people think I'm a nut they don't believe it until they see it and it's a life that is just incredible and my golf course was built with a specific purpose in mind because we're not going to be able to build golf courses the way we've been building in the past my golf course has hardly any water on it to use it has hardly any fertilizer that I use it has a hand two little machines that I use it has no fertilizer I usually use all my horse manure which I pile up over the year tons of it and mix it with other soil and grasses and water and I get the most beautiful compost so I put that on so I'm doing something very difficult and I'm building bunkers that are completely different and I've got some sand greens which they used to have in the older days all over the world and a sand green is much more enjoyable to play and easier and better than a grass green and I have some grass greens and I have different kinds of grass so a man wants to build a golf course and cut his maintenance costs way down somehow he gets through to our office and they come along and they see my ranch if they sign a contract with me I have hundreds of people who want to come there I don't have time.

1:35:18And I show him what I've done. It's been done. There it is. And I'm still busy with it right now. I have a hole named after Jack Nick that's called Cactus Jack. It has 200 cactuses on it. Okay. I have artificial grass on the tee, beautiful rock tees, one sand green in front, a grass green at the back, cactuses all around and a different kind of bunkering. And so I'm doing something that's very, very different. I'm trying to show the world what's going to happen in golf in the future. And this is your ranch or farm in South Africa. How many acres is it? And what do you do on it besides, obviously, golf?

1:35:54Because there's so much more that you do. We have 3 ,400 acres plus minus, and I raise thoroughbred racehorses. And then we grow alfalfa. We grow hay like Timothy hay. And we have some cattle. And we have some sheep. We have skeet shooting. We have a variety of things that we farm with, but the main thing is thoroughbred racehorses. You see, the outside of a horse is good for the inside of a man, and it's very similar to golf. It's a lifetime study, and I study genetics. I would say over the year, at least an hour a day. And golf and horses, I know a hell of a lot about nothing. Why do you find being on the ranch therapeutic?

1:36:39Well, when you live in cities, you see, if I lived in New York or Shanghai or Beijing or London, I'd live for two years and I'd be dead. I couldn't live like that. It'd be like in solitary confinement for me. I've got to have fresh air where I can get on a horse and swallow the wind. And I've got to wake up in the morning and hear birds. I've got to be able to see sunsets. I've got to be able to dive in my dam and swim in natural dam water I've got to be able to take a shovel and shovel and clean out stables I've got to be with my dog who if I kick him in the butt or I leave him in the rain the next morning he loves me imagine finding a wife like that I've been lucky 57 years but nature is God And you see, so many people unfortunately never experience it.

1:37:37So they don't know. That's so sad. You do have one of the top thoroughbred stud farms in South Africa. How fair is it, do you think, that your passion for that now exceeds the passion for golf? And I ask that because a couple people that I've talked to have said as much. Yeah, if you said, what do I love more now, golf or horses? I would say horses. Because I'm not active on the tour. I play some tournaments. And I played with Jack Nicklaus in seven tournaments this year. And we did very nicely. And I thoroughly enjoyed it. And I love to play golf. I represent companies. And I go and play with their customers.

1:38:17I love it. And I love to play golf. But I had 62 years of it. And I'm not fully active anymore. But if you said in your heyday, in golf and in horses, it's a tie. A tie. A tie. I mean, it's phenomenal to take a stallion and take a mare and put them together and try and beat a baby that could be a world champion that's worth$30 million. I never made$30 million in my life on the golf tour. But I've got a chance to do it in the horse business. And to study the genetics and to watch these athletes, the greatest athlete in the world ever is a thoroughbred racehorse. Has it been profitable or money-losing venture so far?

1:39:02I've lost money. I've lost money. That's what everybody said. You know why? He's lost millions. You know why? But it's a hobby. I've lost tens of millions. But you know why? Because while you're sleeping, the horse is eating. And the other thing is, I have developed my farm. I've my, what's the word I'm thinking, my overheads, my capital expenditure on my house and my stables, if I'd start again I wouldn't have spent that kind of money, but it also plays an ambassadorial role in South Africa when I invite overseas guests to come, they can see a very quality ranch that compares to anything in America, but a very different system of breeding.

1:39:47We have a completely different system. America is more artificial, whereas mine is more natural. So worldwide is mostly artificial. Mine is very natural. So, no, and they're both so fascinated because they're both such a challenge. And when you have a horse that you breed become a champion, it's like one of your members of your family, one of your grandchildren or your children, excelling at sports. And all parents know what that's like. The travel. You mentioned you're the most traveled person ever. and there's a story about you, Jack Nicholas, Arnold Palmer, you're playing in a Canada Cup event in France and the conclusion gets delayed and so that threatens all of your abilities to potentially play in the Australian Open.

1:40:36Yes. Take it from there. People always say, what's the most amazing win you ever had? Not the most important. Well, I said we were playing at Saint-Norme-la-Bretêche in France. We fogged out on the Sunday. now we've got to play on the Monday. We were scheduled to fly. Why in those days? I don't know why. You're talking about 1965. New York, Los Angeles, Hawaii, Fiji, Sydney, Melbourne. But guys, if you go, the travel agent says, you'll get there three hours before the Australian Open starts. That means you've never seen the golf course. You've got a, what's it, a 16-hour time change and a flight that's over 40 hours.

1:41:19jack and arnold correctly say i'm not going to do it me being crazy and a travel bug said i'm going so i get on the plane with bruce devlin who was in the tournament australian and i fly would you believe it i arrived there three hours before not a delay i arrived there never seen the course give me a new set of clubs a different ball i've always said people make too much of a fuss of different balls they can feel certain things i don't believe all that so uh i I get there and I've never seen the golf course. I have a shower, I have a sandwich, I hit some balls and do some putting and I go out and I win the Australian Open by seven shots.

1:41:59I mean... That's a heck of a story. It's a miracle. It's a miracle. How do you handle jet lag? I don't eat on airplanes. I take a little food of my own, fruit, nuts. I have a lot of green juice. all juices in a blender and I'll drink the green juice. That's the big thing coming for health. It's already prevalent in America. But I think that's the number one thing you should start your day with. Not with fatty bacon and lots of milk and butter and white bread and sausages and bacon and all that stuff. That's only my opinion. You've got to watch what you eat. It's very important. Explain why somebody once thought you were dead on a flight.

1:42:45Oh, well, we were allowed to sleep on the floor in those days. And so I couldn't sleep. And, man, I'm a champion sleeper. So I'd say to the lady next to me, would you like the seat? She said, oh, I'd love it. I've got lots of room. I said, OK, then my legs are going to be underneath your legs on the floor. I'm going to lie down. And one time I was flying to Australia. And the lady called the hostess over. She said, you know, this man's dead. You better do something about it. She thought, because I never moved. I lay there and slept on that floor. which I mean last night I slept nine and a half hours.

1:43:17I can sleep 10, I can sleep 11 hours, or I can sleep six hours. And that's a blessing while I've been over to continue so long and very few other people have. And let me tell you, any other pro in the world, any American pro who traveled like I did would never be able to play at all now. He'd be completely finished. The Player Foundation has raised more than$50 million for underprivileged kids around the world on six continents. What about that are you most proud of? First of all, you go to South Africa where we go to places where kids don't have parents and they're not well and they're struggling.

1:43:57And you go in there and you just change their lives. And South Africa, where I live, and with the help of President Mandela, we raised almost plus minus 20 million for young black children and it was a thrill to work with him and every time I was around Nelson Mandela I cried because I couldn't believe that a man could have this amount of love in his heart and he was so kind to me telling me he always said to me Gary you're my number one ambassador which was really something phenomenal coming from him and then you see these children, the joy on their faces when they've got nothing. And then you go to China and now we start and we raise and we were giving the Chinese people 12 million RMB a year over the years and the government didn't know what golf was really and then all of a sudden they'd have a government official there.

1:44:56Wow, can you do this through golf? and Coca-Cola sponsored the whole thing. And we raised all this money in China for the last X amount of years, almost 100 million RMB. I don't know what the total is, but it's enormous. And then we came to America and we raised a lot of money for people in this country. Then we went to Europe and we raised, we got a sponsor called Berenberg Bank out of Germany. They put on the biggest one day pro-am ever in the history of golf this year. we had all the good players, the top guys, not everyone. And we made a lot of money, and they're going to make it bigger. And then in South Africa, we have it.

1:45:35And so we have it in four quadrants of the world, and wherever we have it, that money is used in that particular country to benefit recipients in that country. And my goodness me, I can go to my grave knowing the joy that I've changed the lives of thousands of people. and God willing if I live my great dream with the son of my help of my son who's so capable and now great staff is to raise a hundred million dollars before I die and we will do that and it is a great great feeling to do that to change people's lives you're traveling the world constantly you're still out and working on your farm constantly you're a health food and fitness fanatic you have a very successful business what still drives you today my my the drive i think at the back of my mind now that the thing that drives me most are many things i'd like to have breed a real champion racehorse now i had one but i'd like to breed another real champion and secondly i'd like to raise a lot of money for underprivileged children that really because having been poor I find myself going back in memory and I'm saying not if I'm a champion one day I didn't know I want to be a golfer when I'm a champion one day I'm going to help poor people because I understood what it's like and I needed help so it was a good experience to have uh and I just love people you know I'm playing golf yesterday with a SAP company group but I see people on the other side of the fairway how are you and I get in my cart and I drive her how are you and those guys are going to tell 10 people gary came and saw me and said hello to me and it's so easy so i love giving love because i have a i have a desire for love in my heart and so i love giving it and i love receiving it and 20 grandchildren 22 grandchildren man do i get love love from my wife and my friends and i'll be in an airport in in america they'll come up to me how are you gary gee i've enjoyed watching you play you know my father's still alive and he used to watch play I said, get him on the phone.

1:47:47And I phoned him. Yesterday I did it. 90-year-old man. Gary, man, I used to love watching you play. How are you? Fine, thank you. I said, you're a bionic son of a gun. I believe you chipped in on the last hole against your son the other day. What do you expect? Aren't I supposed to do that? I said, how long are you going to live? He says, who knows, 100 or more. I said, he says, be careful I don't come to your funeral. Great. I do that a lot of times. I just love people. and it's a great thing. It's a great thing to love people. So I have many things to run a good business, to represent companies, spend good times with my grandchildren.

1:48:27I have a host of things. My life is so full at nearly 80. It's like when I was 20. It's no different, no different. Except now I'll take more time off to go to Royal Ascot and watch that magnificent day of racing or would like to go again to the Derby in Kentucky or to the Arc de Triomphe in France. I want to go and watch the World Cup rugby in London next year. I want to go to Wimbledon, which I always do. Love tennis. So I just started to go on a cruise through France two weeks ago. Very historic, great educational. I have a great desire for education, even at my age. I want to improve my vocabulary.

1:49:12I want to learn to spell better even at this age. I want to have a good memory. I don't carry a cell phone. I don't have an iPad. My wife has the iPad. She has a cell phone. People around me in my office who travel with me have all that. I don't have it. I use theirs. And if I'm stuck without something, some guy comes up to me in the airport and says, Gary, how are you, my buddy? Will you sign this? I said, yes. Let me use your cell phone. Pleasure. Great swap. really a pleasure thank you for doing this thank you very much I really appreciate it thank you I enjoyed it very much that'll do it for this week make sure to check out video clips of the interview including a tour of players headquarters and a lesson on the golf course at youtube.com slash Graham Bensinger if you enjoyed listening please drop us a rating and review and catch additional content on our Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and TikTok at Graham Bensinger Thanks again for listening.

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