Gov. Ron DeSantis: Disney, Trump, and what comes next

23:55I spoke after Lou Holtz one time at a fundraiser that he headlined for me. I never made that mistake again because you just can't top it. But, yeah, so those guys were doing it. They were there helping. But, you know, those are just the relationships that you build over the years. But you were kind of, when you first went to Yale, your buddy Mike, who I was talking to yesterday, who was a quarterback from California, he's like, you know, Ron had his jean shorts and product-filled spiky hair, and we both didn't know what the hell was going on. So think about it. I'm a public school kid from West Central Florida.

24:33First day of school, I have flip-flops, jean shorts, and a cut-off T-shirt on. That is like a fish out of water up there, right? It was a different culture. And I kind of felt like people like me were viewed a little less favorably than had I come from a different culture. Did you actually feel that then? I felt a little, I mean, not that like, oh, I'm a victim. No, not a victim. But it just, it was, I think people back then, like, oh, you're from Florida. The only thing they knew was Miami and Palm Beach, right? So when I told them I'm from Duneno, what the hell's that? Where's that? Oh, it's in the Tampa.

25:08Oh, you know, all this stuff. Well, and there's a lot of generational wealth. For sure, yeah. So it's just a different thing. And just the culture's different. The weather, honestly, was a big difference. I played sports year-round. Obviously, Mike could do it in Southern California year-round. I get to Yale, and it's nice. In September, for a certain period of time, we're playing fall ball. Then all of a sudden, it starts getting dark at 4.30 in the afternoon, and it's dreary and rainy and all this stuff. And it was not. So I'm just like, you know what? I liked where I grew up. So it made me appreciate that a little bit more.

25:42But, yes, I was totally a fish out of water. I did not know what to expect. and the culture was just different. Like I learned to adapt to it and I have a lot of friendships. But in terms of the people that I'm friends with to this day, most of them were people that had kind of similar backgrounds as me, right? You know, they're playing football, playing baseball, playing some of these sports and maybe went to kind of more normal high schools because, you know, you'll have some, there'll be people at Harvard and Yale who have like 10 of their high school classmates with them. I think I was the first one from my high school to ever go to Yale, or certainly one of the few, right?

26:21So it's just different in terms of that class makeup. And despite the liberal environment, you felt you were actually more conservative by the time you left. So it's interesting. So as I said, I didn't know colleges were liberal. Where I grew up, I didn't even know who was a Republican or a Democrat. Like the kids I played baseball with, their families, all this stuff, I had no idea. but I had never been exposed to like anti-Americanism, some of the anti-religion, anti-God, anti-Christian. That's just, you would not do that whether you're Republican or Democrat. Well, I get there and I mean, it's very hot.

26:55Like, oh, the United States, they caused the Cold War, they did this. And I'm just thinking, well, that's not true, right? Because I'm here in the late 90s. So the fall of the Soviet Union was still kind of fresh in everybody's thinking. So you're seeing that. But I think parents worry, like conservative parents are like, I don't want to send my kid and have them undo 18 years because it's so liberal. I can just tell you with me, it had the opposite effect because I started to think about this stuff more critically. And I'm like, you know what? That's not right. That's ideology. Those are narratives that they're trying to push.

27:28Here's the truth. So I developed it. And then by the time I got to Harvard Law School, I was set kind of in my ways. So when I'm doing that first congressional campaign in Florida, I'm running, you know, I had Navy. I had, you know, my wife's pretty. You know, we had a lot going for us. But I had Harvard and Yale, which are scarlet letters in a Republican primary because our voters think this guy may be very liberal. And what I would tell people is, you know, we're so sick of sending people to Washington and they become part of the D.C. culture and they go native up there. How do you know I'm not going to do it?

28:02Well, here's why. I'm the only person in this country that went through both Harvard and Yale and came out more conservative than we went in. And then they were fine with it. By the way, I was told I have to ask you about T.J. Tucker's Wednesday night's dollar beers and karaoke. I'm told that you don't know a video exists of your Hank Williams Jr. karaoke. Well, I hope there's no video that exists. That was the one thing. A country boy can't survive. Imagine having the cameras back then. But the one I was really good at were the Johnny Cash songs. Because, you know, he didn't really have, like, his voice never went high.

28:43So you could kind of just go low and you can kind of work your way through it without totally embarrassing yourself. But, yeah, no, we had a lot of fun. Did I read this correctly, that a few good men actually impacted your military interest? Well, so it's interesting. So back in the day, I was known to do the Colonel Jessup impression and Jack Nicholson. And so people would like, like when I was being hazed in the fraternity, they would make me do it, right? In front of like other, oh yeah. So I'm like sitting, like literally, I think I'm on like a street corner at Yale and people are, I'm like sitting there and people are looking at me and I'm just like, you want me on that one day?

29:19No, you got to do it. You got to do it to this guy, whatever. So we kind of did it. So it was because that was in the, probably the early nineties. But it's interesting, I identified more with the prosecutor than I did with Cruz. I mean, I thought he was kind of a smartass going in there. And to a certain extent, Jessup's right. You come down here in your white uniform and all this stuff. Extend me some courtesy, right? So I really wasn't, but I liked a good bit. But it was really the impression that people knew me for. Yeah, the first lady, when I was talking to her yesterday, was telling me how, you know, when you were in Iraq, she was always told by you that you were on, you know, the military base.

30:02And she's like, when in reality, he was in helicopters and, you know, flying all around. How about your most vivid memory from your time there? So I think the most vivid memory was we were just me personally, not in terms of the unit success, but me personally was we were in theater when the Marines introduced the MV22 Osprey. So the Osprey is kind of like a hybrid between a fixed wing and a rotary wing. So it can take off like this. It can go and take off like that. It can go higher, whatever. Actually, pretty cool. Horrible training record. Right. So I'm just going because, you know, we get in a Blackhawk.

30:41You do whatever. Well, I'm going and the air guy's just like, you're going to be one of the first guys to be on the MV22 Osprey in theater. I'm like, really? Like, what's that? They're like, oh, well, you know, they did this. And so I just remember like this was like this flight with this with this platform that these guys are saying did not do well in the training. And so I get in there and I just don't know what to think. But like the rest of the time, you know, we'd be like coming in Blackhawks in the middle of Baghdad or we'd be out in El-Assad or or in Ramadi and all these. You don't even think about it.

31:13This one, though, because they were pumping me with all this stuff. I'm thinking like, OK, we get in it. And honestly, it was pretty cool. I mean, it went off very quickly. It got very high, much higher than the tip of the helicopter. And it landed well. But I just I just remember we were the ones who were kind of debuting that. because we were in the Marine Corps battle space, and I think it performed well over there. All right, so you're 27 years old, a JAG with the Navy, Guantanamo Bay, and I know there have been stories about this, reporters always looking for something, but that also had to be such a fascinating experience to be there at kind of that stage in your life.

31:56Yeah, and anytime anyone said anything, Like, I saw nothing that was anything other than 100 % professional. You know, sometimes they'll act like I was there. I mean, I wasn't doing it. But, like, the people that were there, a lot longer than me, because I was doing temporary stints over there. Like, what's that like, though? Well, what it was like and what it showed me was the narrative that was out in legacy media was not consistent with the facts on the ground. Legacy media was saying people are going to Guantanamo. They're being tortured. They're being this. I went in and they, cause we had Khalid Sheikh came in when I was down there.

32:32You go in, it's a maximum security prison. If you were in a super max versus there, you wouldn't know the difference. They were being treated. Yeah. He was in solitary confinement, but you know what? There's people that didn't do as bad of things as he's done in solitary confinement. So he was doing that. So these guys are doing it. I felt that they were being treated very unfairly because it was the narrative, right? That was being used. They want to use it against Bush, use it against the war, all that stuff. I get the politics of it. But we would have people go down there from like these European countries.

33:03And these guys would tell us, they're like, yeah, you know, this is not what we've been told that it is. It's a very secure environment. Would you want them in the mainland of the United States? No, for a variety of reasons. So you're able to do it. So what I saw is I saw a lot of people doing their duty. It was a difficult situation, but there were various gradations of security, Khalid Sheikh maximum. Some of these other guys that ended up getting released, they're just playing soccer all day in like kind of an open field situation where they have more minimal security. So that's just what you saw.

33:36And I did, I was like, okay, how can the New York Times be saying this when this is what I'm saying? And then I saw the same thing when I was in Iraq. How could Washington Post be writing this when I'm watching what's, that did not happen, you know, the way they said. And so that really opened my eyes about how different the narrative can be to the actual reality. Were the stories about feces or urine getting thrown on you, stuff like that? Well, look, there was one detainee that was, you know, he was not cooperative. I wasn't like manhandling him, but he, you know, he threw, you know, something not nice.

34:10I mean, but that's just the way it goes, right? How does an experience there like impact you? Well, it's interesting. It kind of goes back to why I joined in the first place. I mean, you grew up in the, I mean, the 80s were kind of like the height of us getting ready to win the Cold War, like Rocky IV, all this stuff, right? Then the Berlin Wall Falls, then the Soviet Union. And the 90s were like a great time to be going to high school and college. And I graduate Yale right before, you know, the spring before 9-11. It's like we didn't have a care in the world as a country. Like, we were in such good shape.

34:47And then they run planes into those two and the Pentagon, but the Twin Towers. And it just changed everything about how I viewed the world and what I felt I needed to do to be. How so? Well, I mean, nobody was thinking that we had any real significant threats when the Cold War ended, right? People were saying it's a new world. We're now on a holiday from history, all this other stuff. And you have a handful of terrorists can do this. It just showed vulnerability. A lot of innocent people, of course, lost their lives in that. So to see some of those people in Gitmo getting justice as best as our government was able to deliver it at the time, I was glad to see Khalid Sheikh Mohammed there.

35:31He deserved that. He deserved a lot worse than that because those people harmed a lot of Americans, and these were innocent people. And I've grown to know people now because we've done a lot with 9-11 curriculum in Florida. We actually have mandatory curriculum in our schools where kids need to learn about 9-11, what caused it, all such stuff. So I'm friends now with a lot of the widows. We were up at Ground Zero a couple years ago. I was there with them doing different things. And so it just had an impact on me. But seeing that in Gitmo and then thinking back that, hey, these guys, certainly Khalid Sheikh, these guys were behind the worst terrorist attack against our country.

36:12And we're doing something about it. Ivy League education, you could have come out and done just about anything you wanted. How do you avoid the draw then to a high-paying job in favor of what you were just talking about? I just, you know, it's just like I felt that the world had changed. Our country was in a different spot, and I needed to do my part as best I could. It was funny, though. At Harvard Law School, you have 550 students in a class. They have like 3 ,000 employers come. Every hedge fund recruits there, private equity, corporate law firms. I mean, you name it, there's a whole gamut of stuff that you could potentially do.

36:55And people would ask me, you know, what are you doing? Oh, I'm doing the military. It was like, what? Like, it was just like it didn't compute as to why you'd want to do it. But I felt it was a duty, and I felt that I needed to do it. You know, my grandfather fought in World War II. It's just something that I believed in. And so we ended up doing, you know, I didn't get my school paid for. You could have done a program to do that. But by the time I just commissioned, I just did it. So we did it. Well, it was just, it was not in the timing of when I joined and everything like that. Okay. But so people like, oh, well, at least they pay for your school.

37:31No, I didn't pay for my school. No, I went in, I had to pay loans when I got in as an ensign. You're not exactly raking in big bucks back then, but it is what it is. But you know what? I mean, that taught me a lot about being a leader. It taught me about service above self. It taught me even more about discipline than what I had with baseball and athletics. And so it was the right decision for me. You remember BFO Brady's? Oh, man. So I'm a lieutenant junior grade in the Navy stationed in Mayport, Florida, which is northeastern Florida. And I'm done with baseball. My buddies were done with baseball.

38:11a lot of us started to get into golf. So we had a trip planned in like two weeks from the time to Bethpage Black in Long Island, which people that know golf, it's hosted the U.S. Open, just hosted the Ryder Cup, but it's a public course and one of the most difficult courses. And so I'm on base that day, and like midway through the morning, like something hits me, and I feel like crap. And my officer in charge is like, you look like shit. And I'm like, well, he's like, just go home and relax. I mean, just sleep it off and come back tomorrow. So I go back, and I just pass out on my couch. And one of my friends calls me.

38:50He's like, what are you doing? I'm like, I'm not feeling it. He's like, you better get your butt to the range, because Beth Page is going to eat your lunch if you don't. So I got up, put on my golf stuff, went to the local driving range, you know, a mile or two from my apartment. And I'm sitting there, and there's a bay with half of the balls missing. someone left and then there's another bay where there's this young girl that's in like this beautiful golf outfit very pretty and she's like whacking balls and she had a good swing but like she wasn't really hitting them great but I could tell she had good athleticism so I'm just like hitting and I'm like watching her just trying to figure out like what do I do right and I'm like you know what you don't you don't uh you're never going to hit a pitch if you don't swing at it right so you just take the swing so we started talking kind of negotiated over those balls I think she kind of thought I was okay, but I think I liked her better and she liked me So but we started that we split the rest of the balls.

39:45We just started talking. I'm like hey Why don't we go grab so that was a piece of the story? I didn't I had not heard yet You actually the first date was kind of that well, so here's the thing though So I'm like, let's just go grab a bite. Let's grab a beer whatever This was before smartphones. This is 2006 so we had flip phones and and I get in my truck. She gets in her car. I'm like, follow me. I didn't know where the hell I was going, right? I was pretty new to that area. I had just gotten in duty six months earlier. So I'm going, and I'm like, just follow me. And I'm like, oh, please don't lose her.

40:19Please don't lose her. The first thing I see is a BFO Brady. So I do like a massive turn in there. So we're sitting in BFO Brady's for kind of our first official date, and then we ended up just continuing, and kind of the rest is history. Do you remember when you're in Iraq calling in on Valentine's Day? Oh, man. So, you know, the communications then is not what it is now, right? So to be able to call back home was a big deal. They didn't have FaceTime. They didn't have any of this stuff. So we had these satellite phones. And so they had let, you know, people used to call the satellite phone. So I got one of someone on our show reached out to me.

40:57He's like, hey, will you call her? I was like, yeah, I'll do it. What time? And I don't know. The time's a lot different. So we did it. So I'm calling in and I couldn't see what was going on because I'm just doing it. But I could tell she was shocked. She had no idea that was coming. And I'm just like, yeah, I just want to wish you a happy Valentine's Day. Love you. Look forward to seeing you soon or whatever. And that was definitely. She said she didn't know what to do. So she starts like kind of grilling you on. Well, she was like, yeah, she's like, you know, he's in. And she started saying like he's in Western Iraq.

41:29I think he's in. I'm like, don't say the location. You're not supposed to do it. But it was fine. But it was innocent. And so we did that. And then it's interesting. My other kind of involvement with her in local news was when we - Because she was kind of a star of local news reporter. She was a star, yeah. She was a legitimate star. We would go out and people in Northeast Florida, I mean, they definitely knew her. And she would be in celebrity golf tournaments, all this stuff. She said, pick my wedding dress. So they would show these different wedding dresses for like two months leading into the wedding.

42:00like vote on this wedding dress, vote on this. So it was like our wedding was like a thing. Nobody knew who I was at the time. I was just the guy in the white uniform, right? But the chi was really going up. So they ended up doing it. And I think they picked the one that she was going to wear, but she told me, she's like, I already know which one I'm going to wear. And so we ended up doing that. So there's, you know, as I understand it, she kind of served as like the marketing manager for your first book, which preceded you being in Congress. but the relationship between the two of you on the personal and professional front seems to be kind of second to none.

42:39When there's an issue that comes up that you're dealing with or like a policy-making type decision you're thinking through, what's the dialogue that you have with somebody like that? Well, I think it's just she is very supportive, right? I mean, she's never come to me and said, oh, you can't do this, you can't do that. Now, part of that is I think that she views that as the appropriate function and to not inject herself more so, like as a spouse. But I think also is, you know, she's a true believer. You know, a lot of Republicans will see, oh, this guy will be running, he'll say all these good things, and then they worry about the spouse pulling him left, right?

43:21She said she was a Republican when you guys met, but that you made her a conservative. Yeah, well, here's the thing. I mean, and not like made her, but yeah. Yeah, well, she, I mean, she really, because, you know, she studied economics and French at College of Charleston. Nothing wrong with that, but she wasn't reading the Federalist Papers, just not with the course of study, right? So she kind of learned. But the thing is, is they're like, oh, the spouses pull them left, all this stuff. I can tell you, that is not true with her, for sure. I mean, she's not. But I think it's more of just supporting the mission, wanting to be successful.

43:54And then, you know, as we running for Congress is one thing, you know, you get there and I worked really hard and my constituents like me and I got reelected with big margins and everything like that. But how much impact do you really have on people's lives? As governor, you have huge impact on people's lives. I mean, especially with COVID. She's had a huge impact on people's lives. And so to be able to be doing things that are going to be meaningful to people, that makes a big difference. And she really takes her ability and the position she's in seriously to say, how could I help do things? And she's launched a lot of very successful initiatives.

44:37It's funny when I was talking to her about this yesterday on the phone. She was very quick to say, this is you making the decisions, you doing the work. And I'm like, I get that. But, I mean, man, you could be so lucky to have a partner in life that you trust explicitly whose opinion you value. Like, that is a huge net positive. I mean, she's kind of selling herself short. But, yeah, if I'm negotiating, like, an education package, she's not getting injecting in that. Like, I handle it. I got elected, whatever. But on her initiatives where I say, you know what? So she had breast cancer. She fought it.

45:13We went public with it because we just felt that we owed it to the people. But she was an inspiration for a lot of people. She's now driven support from the legislature for new cancer initiatives. We were just at Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville because of the Casey DeSantis cancer innovation. They're now doing the first carbon ion cancer therapy in the entire Western Hemisphere is going to be in Jacksonville in Florida because of what she did to move the ball forward. She's done a whole host of other areas where she child welfare, food testing, all these different things. That's not me doing it. And then her taking that's her doing the difficult work to be able to bring all this stuff to fruition.

45:59And, you know, she does it. She gets paid zero dollars to do it. None of never gotten anything for anything she's ever done. It's purely because she believes in the mission. Why do you think the relationship works between you guys? You know, I mean, it's interesting. When I met her, I think we had a lot of similarities. I mean, she was from Ohio. You know, my mom was from Ohio, so we had kind of family similarities. We were both interested in a lot of the same things. She was playing a lot of golf. You know, we met on the driving range. We would play golf together on kind of going on dates and stuff.

46:34And look, for a guy, it's like, you know, it's a lot easier, you know, for me to be taking her there than to take her to like a ballet, which is just not my cup of tea. I just don't know as much about it. Golf was good, and she was good, and she was passionate about it. And we had battles over the years, good-natured battles. Well, sometimes good-natured, but so you do that. So I just think a lot of it clicked with us, and then she's just been somebody that when we're doing some of the stuff we're doing now, I mean, you know, she just believes in the mission. And, you know, it's like you could click on a personal level with somebody, you know, as a spouse, but maybe professionally they're just not in the same place as you.

47:12I think for us, we click personally, obviously emotionally, but then the stuff I've gotten involved in, that's things she believes in too. I want to toss your way some of your most, at least publicly viewed or media viewed, kind of controversial items and just kind of get your thoughts on them. Don't say gay. What do you think critics or somebody who, you know, would say, I don't agree with that? What do you think they miss? Well, obviously, I mean, the whole name of it is a joke. Is there anybody being, you know, prosecuted or held? No, of course not. You could say whatever you want in Florida.

48:01So I think that was an example of narrative. And part of it was 2021, I think when that happened, that was peak woke era. So that was an issue where, you know, the transgenderism, all that stuff was something that people were pushing in a public way and in education. And then because Biden was president, a lot of the left, obviously, they didn't have Trump to go after. So I was like the guy we were doing in Florida because we had gone against the grain and COVID and done all that. And I was for the left public enemy number one. So I think part of it was, by the way, you know, there was, I mean, certainly stuff that I've disagreed with over the years.

48:38but history proved your decisions on COVID right. And they were very unpopular at the time, certainly with the media. And I'm going to talk to you about that. But I think on the gender ideology, it's like, you know, if a parent sends their kid to school, particularly in the elementary grades, why should they be told, oh, you know, you could change your gender? It's inappropriate, right? And we don't even deal with gender ideology. We just don't think it's appropriate to be in at all. And I think most parents agreed with us on that. And so we did it. It got a lot of play because there was pressure on Disney to speak out and to oppose the parents' rights bill.

49:17And in Florida, when Disney weighs in, historically, that's the end of it, right? They are the 800-pound gorilla historically in Florida politics. I was in a position, I had very young kids. I get the atmospherics that were happening, but what we had to do was write for parents. And so I think that that was portrayed in a way that That obviously was not what we were doing, but I think there was a political agenda behind it. But here's the thing. We did that. Our parents are happy. As a parent, you're free to instill whatever values you want into your kid, absolutely. But in terms of our tax dollars, we don't want to be in a situation where parents, which is the majority of them, are being in a situation where they're having an agenda imposed.

50:02Some of the pushback on that topic was connected to the fact that it extends beyond third grade and goes through grade 12. Well, it started, yeah. So it started, the first bill, I think, started with the elementary. And then I think the legislature's view was, we've looked at this stuff. We think it's an agenda. We think it's ideology. We're going to focus on math, science, and all these other things. You know, we didn't have that when I was going into school. And I think they made a decision on that. But the initial controversy was over the K through four grades when you had that all go public.

50:39With it going through 12th grade, how do you feel about that? I think it's been fine. I mean, I don't think there's been an issue with anything. Again, people are free to do what they want to do. But in terms of what is our curriculum going to be, I think what we found, and this is true with a lot of curriculum, there's just a desire to make an agenda in education. For example, we go through textbooks. And if there's an agenda, we object to it. And we're a big enough state that if we don't accept the textbook, that's a big problem for the company. So they have to make changes. And it's amazing to see some of the stuff.

51:10It's like, you know, when I was in school, I didn't feel like anyone was pushing anything on me. You know, we'd study American history. We'd study social sciences. We'd study these things. And it was pretty straightforward. People could have their opinions, but it wasn't slanted. So I think what we've done in a whole host of issues, not just this, is let's not have slanted education. You know, let's do the basics and do the basics well. I get like, you know, third grade, you don't want, you know, stuff like that kind of being taught. But, you know, somebody's in high school. One could make the strong argument that learning about some of that better kind of prepares.

51:53Well, here's I think the problem we've seen. So this is a case that just went to the Supreme Court, California. So they do the gender ideology, they do it very strongly, and they're doing things where these kids are then choosing to transition, and the high schools won't tell the parents that this is happening. So that went all the way to the US Supreme Court, and the US Supreme Court said, no, California can't do that, that that violates the rights of the parents. And so I get like people, I think, do do get different things that come in beyond just what they learn in school. But to have the power of the schools pushing that agenda in that way that goes all the way up to the Supreme Court.

52:35It's like, is that really what we want to be to be doing in our school system? So we're saying math, science, history, all the basics. Let's do those well. And let's not try to do things because like two plus two is four. right? Like, I don't care what parents you are. It is what it is. Some of this other stuff, I think it's just much more, I think, divisive and controversial. So in your opinion, it just becomes kind of a slippery slope. I think so, yeah. What's your reflection on kind of, you mentioned Disney, on how that all shook out? So first, just signing the bill, most people thought I wouldn't go through with it once they came out because they've been the most powerful force in Florida.

53:18And you guys got married at Disney. So it's not as if you don't have an affinity for it. That's not anything we ever hid. But when this was going on, people didn't draw the connection to it. And eventually that kind of came out. So yeah, and that was like her family was big into it, everything like that. And I had a good relationship with that. Remember, they were open during COVID in Florida. They were closed in California. So we saved a lot of jobs. We helped the company a lot. And I didn't do it because I was trying to help the company. I did it because I cared about the cast members being able to work.

53:49And I cared about Floridians and others being able to have fun with their kids. I wanted life to resume normalcy. So you go back to like May, June of 2020, Universal SeaWorld Disney. And then in California, Universal SeaWorld Disney closed there. So we had a very good relationship. And I told the then CIA, I said, don't get involved in this. Because first of all, what they were saying. Bob J. Beck. Because what they were saying about it wasn't true. and it became a political football. I'm like, don't worry about it. And so, you know, they did. So we fought, we won. But then what happened, they doubled down.

54:23They said, we are going to launch legal action against this law. We are going to try to get it reversed in the legislature, in the courts or whatever. It's like, okay, you know, well, first of all, is that really your fiduciary obligation to your shareholders? I don't know, but fine, you do you. But what I also know is they had an arrangement in Florida that no other company had. They were given control of the local government back in the late 60s to be able to create Disney and all that, which made sense at the time. But what was promised was that they were going to build residential communities in addition to the parks.

54:55What does that mean? Those people would vote in the leaders of the local government. Disney never did that. So basically, they have controlled this entire local government there for decades. So there's other tenant businesses. Disney could tax them and then use it for Disney stuff. So what we did is we said, OK, you're free to launch a tax against our parents' rights bill. You're free to do that. But we're not going to subsidize that. And so we imposed the state control board over that local government. And what did my guys do? They cut the taxes on all the other businesses. They're making sure that basically Disney's treated the same.

55:31Because think about it. They didn't have to go through the same things that Universal has to go through, SeaWorld. So they had a very special arrangement, which I think had outlived its usefulness. But they were just so powerful over the years that no one dared to touch that, even though it came under a lot of criticism. It's interesting. Liberal media would always criticize that, that they had this special arrangement. And because, you know, it's like the Republicans controlled the legislature, the liberals. The minute I took it away, then the media flipped. And they're like, oh, this governor's doing all this stuff.

56:02Why is he doing this? All this stuff. They all said for years that this was inappropriate. So we did the control board and then did it. Now, people said, oh, you're taking away their control. Again, this is a local government they're controlling. They can do what they want for their company, but this is the local government. Disney's going to leave. They should leave Florida, all this stuff. What are you going to do, move Space Mountain to Columbus, Ohio? Maybe St. Louis, right? No, it's not going to happen. I mean, good relationship for everybody. I mean, they employ 75 ,000 Floridians or whatever it is, bring in billions of - But here's the, so if we did all that, they're investing$18 billion into their Orlando parks.

56:39And I will say the controversy was more between Florida and Burbank, not between the people that are in Orlando. We have a good relationship with them. I think they do a good job. And it's interesting. There was one day where they were staging protests about whatever was going on in Florida at the time. And Burbank had this big walkout. Orlando, the local news was trying to cover it. They had helicopters. There was one guy out there with a sign with a mask on. That was their whole protest in Orlando. And I think the reason is because a lot of them didn't appreciate what Burbank was doing and appreciated that Florida had protected their jobs and livelihoods during COVID.

57:19Wasn't the whole thing something that you guys and Disney should have just figured out behind closed doors? Well, we tried that. I mean, remember, we tried to just say, because the idea is just let it ride. You'll get criticized for 48 hours, and then the mob will go somewhere else. And that's not, I've had that conversation with other CEOs, because what happens is, because they've tried to attack companies that give to our school choice program, because, you know, some parent will take it to a religious school that may have traditional values that they don't like, right? So they'll attack them.

57:53And I said, guys, listen, if you bend the knee, they know they got you. They're going to come back. They're going to come back. And whatever you do, they're going to try to get a pound of flesh. If you tell them to pound sand, they're going to attack you for a day, for two days. And then they're going to move on to the next target. And they are never going to come after you again. And I think that that's been true. So I think Disney made a mistake by bending to really, it was a woke mob, right? The average cast member in Orlando was not up in arms about this. It really was that. But that was the first time that anybody on the conservative side stood up against corporate wokeness.

58:31Because I think these CEOs had the view, hey, I just need to placate the far left and this woke mob. I know that on the right, so I can go as far left as I want and never have any blowback. And I think when we did that, and I think we had good reasons to do what we did, that reverberated throughout the country. certainly in corporate America. So now CEOs could go to their board and say, listen, I don't want to end up like Disney did on this. We need to stay out of this stuff. I mean, you remember during that era, Major League Baseball moved the All-Star game out of Atlanta and put it in Colorado because Georgia was doing election integrity bill, which they said, oh, it's going to be like Jim Crow.

59:15Turns out that the next election, you had the highest black turnout that they've ever had. So it was all a fake narrative. But there was a lot of policy being done based on these narratives. And so we look back now, of course they shouldn't have moved the all-star game, right? Two other kind of items are just on the issue front I wanted to toss your way. The transporting immigrants to Democratic states, notably, you know, what went on with Martha's Vineyard. So here's the thing. Biden opened the border. I think most people, even a lot of Democrats agree, that was a big mistake, right? Because you have 10 million people.

59:52We don't know who these people are. And I get some of the businesses want cheap labor, but that's not in the best interest of the United States. So I sent people to the southern border. I was the first state to help Texas. Reality is, is you're limited in what you can do in that situation if the feds are not going to be supportive. So Biden was literally flying people. He was flying people into Florida. Let's just be clear. He would find people in foreign countries. They would sign up through this app, and then he would fly them into the United States. And we're just, I think it was frustrating because it was putting a lot of stress on communities.

1:00:28It's obviously not consistent with the rule of law. I mean, I don't care if you want a lot of immigration, no immigration. We don't want people pouring in illegally. I think everyone can agree with that. So, but how do you get traction on it? And our view is that the power centers that were more supportive of the policy were in a position they weren't having to deal with the effects of the policy. Some little town in South Texas, they're getting overrun. Some of these others are not. So you had Texas as well sending to New York City, Chicago. Our thing with Martha's Vineyard was we knew it would be a very sharp contrast.

1:01:06And I didn't know how they were going to react, right? So we did it after Labor Day. So the season had ended. And so they went in, and this was all voluntary. They signed forms, whatever, saying that they wanted to go to Martha's Vineyard. And so they went. They called out the National Guard. They got them off the island the next day. And so I think that showed a lot of people, well, wait a minute. In that Malou up there, they're supportive of this. They literally, Martha's Vineyard had an office in their downtown that said, refugee welcome center, nobody is illegal. They had those signs there.

1:01:42I don't think they ever serviced a single person, but that was what it was done. So it was an ideological thing. They were doing it, but the minute they had to deal with any of the fallout from it, you did. That did change the narrative on that. Some of the other cities too, but the Martha's Vineyard thing. And I would say if you look in the 2024 election cycle, economy, but border was very close as the number two issue. There is some comedy connected to the fact that you have these democratic areas which never had to deal with illegal immigration, where all of a sudden you're forcing their hand and giving them exposure to it.

1:02:28On the other hand, it's like, well, the reality is these immigrants through the kind of unintended consequence of that. Well, it's interesting, though. A lot of them, because this was done, the legislature passed money to do the transport. It was contracted out with a company that handled it. And those folks that went to Martha's Vineyard, a lot of them were saying, thank you for sending us to Martha's Vineyard. Because they had a brochure about it. The company said, hey, you can go to these places. And they were like, oh, this is great that we're here. They were upset that they got put off the island, but they were glad that they had an opportunity to do that because of where they were before that.

1:03:08So this idea that somehow it wasn't good, this was a place that was advertising itself as a sanctuary jurisdiction. Very wealthy. I mean, one of the wealthiest enclaves in the United States. After the season had ended, they had plenty of housing and everything. And so it gave them actually a better opportunity. Now, of course, if Biden would enforce the law, it would have never come to that. And your goal with it was really to bring attention because then you thought that was the best way that was going to lead to positive policy change. And I think that got a lot of play. But then people start talking about the border, and they start talking about the number of people, and you started to do all that stuff.

1:03:49But I do think it's when you have a policy that you support that is having thousands overrun these small, poor towns in Texas, you can't even accommodate 50 of them postseason in the wealthiest, one of the wealthiest enclaves. It just shows that these are policies that are detached from the consequences. The people that advocated them weren't having to deal with the consequences. What do you say to somebody who's pro-choice and under no circumstances could kind of identify with kind of your view on abortion rights and kind of the tightening down of restrictions there? Well, listen, I mean, you know, do you think it's a life or do you not?

1:04:30I mean, that's a threshold question you just have to answer as a moral, philosophical, and ultimately legal issue. And so, you know, if you have an unborn child with a detectable heartbeat, is that a separate life? Or is it the same as just like if I had like a growth on my body that you'd get away? And I think that when you see that, you see this DNA, you see the heartbeat, it's a separate life. I think we have a responsibility to treat it that way, regardless of how popular that would be, regardless of all that. And I understand. I mean, when you're in a situation, I mean, we were married. But, you know, when Casey got pregnant, it's just a big deal, right?

1:05:08I mean, it's a huge deal for obviously the mother. It's a huge deal. Well, some fathers don't put a lot of stock into it these days, but they should, right? It should be a really big deal. You have a lot of women who are very vulnerable situations. How are you going to raise? How are you going to afford this? So all of those things are things that I very much sympathize with. And I understand it's not always the easiest situation. But I also just have to make a judgment as a threshold matter. You know, is this a life that's worth protecting? Is it a life at all? And then if so, what legal protections should go?

1:05:41And I would note, you know, Florida, we have reduced abortion probably by about 50 percent in the last few years. But we had a very high rate prior to this. And so but I think what one thing I don't like is it being used as a form of birth control. And I think that's what's happened over the years. That's become part of the culture. We would prefer that that obviously not be the case because we do think that that the unborn child has has a potential and has life. But I understand it's a it's an emotional issue. It's not something that you can purely analyze in the political realm just through logic and philosophical, because all these other things, you know, become a part of that.

1:06:25And I know it's allowed up to 15 weeks in cases of, like, rape or incest or, you know, human trafficking. Do you think the fact that, like, proof has to be shown of criminality in those situations makes the bar too high to the point of people that might need it in those situations don't end up getting it? Well, I think the legislature, when they craft legislation, they do it in a way that they think is going to effectuate the intent of what they're doing. I will tell you that we have not necessarily seen some of the parade of horribles that people had said in that particular issue with that. And the reality is, look, there's a lot of pro-life people that will say, yeah, incest is terrible, but it's still a life.

1:07:13So they were mad that there was an incest exception. I think our legislature is like, listen, we want to save as much lives as we can. We want to make sure that we're doing that in the most prudential way possible that could actually stick long term. And so they made those decisions as they did. I'd like to talk to you about tragedy. And you have been through personal life challenges of your own on the death and on the cancer front, even going back to your mom's ovarian and breast cancer back in the day. What was that like for you back then going through? I was in elementary school when my mom had it, and I didn't really know what was going on.

1:07:56I just remember going to school and people are all of a sudden very concerned with me and my family. People were bringing food over to the house and something had changed. And then she was in the hospital. She was going through the chemo. And I just remember it just like was really, really tough. I didn't really understand what that was. I think I was in second or third grade at the time. But when you see, obviously, a family member going through that, I mean, it's not pretty. And then when my wife did it, the technology had gotten better. I think the treatments had gotten better, but that was very tough as well.

1:08:29And I think with both my mom and my wife, I mean, we were a young family then. I mean, I was in elementary school. My sister was probably pre-K or maybe not even that. And then when my wife got it, I mean, we had all three were five and under of our kids. And not that you'd ever, not that it's ever like not a big deal when someone gets breast cancer, But a young mom in particular, not only is her life in the balance, but the whole trajectory of her kids and her family and everything. And so I think it's just, it adds weight to the situation. How did having the experience of what you went through with your sister with the pulmonary embolism at 30, in a way kind of prepared you when you found out what was going on with your wife?

1:09:22I don't think they were as connected in that respect, but I think what it did, you know, my sister was very sudden, right? She was just living life. She was going over to the UK, you know, frequently. I mean, that was her boyfriend was there. And I remember coming back from church one day. My mom called me, said she was in the hospital, that she had some type of clotting. And I was like, you know, it seemed like she was stable. It didn't even occur to me that you, I mean, you're in the hospital being treated, right? I mean, it's like I just didn't see. And your mom's a nurse. And my mom's a nurse.

1:09:56So it's like, so it was, when you get admitted to hospital, it's obviously not like it's a small thing. And then, you know, a couple days later, you know, they said she passed. And so it was really shocking. You don't expect something like that to happen. And I'm not saying like, you know, you want someone to have like a long illness before they die. But there was really no preparation at all. So I think for me, it was just like, you know what? There's nothing guaranteed in this life. You just don't know what's going to happen. And so, you know, make the most of it. You don't want to look back and wish, oh, I had done this, I had done that or anything.

1:10:32And it was a wake-up call for me. I was always driven. I always worked hard and everything like that. But to have that happen so suddenly, I mean, it was almost like, you know, how could this be? And your parents, I mean, the cycle of life is, you know, you don't bury your child. Exactly. I mean, and so, you know, it's obviously very hard on them to have something like that happen. So here, the interest, I mean, it just, this shows my wife's character. So this happens in London, right? And so my mom and me, you know, need to go over to kind of do whatever you have to do, bring the body back, claim it.

1:11:13I had never been in that situation. So I'm in my congressional office in Washington, D.C. She's down in Florida. The problem is I didn't have my passport. My passport was in Ponte Vedra Beach at our house. And Casey's like, I'll go with her. Like, don't worry about it. I'm going to go. So Casey went with my mom to be able to tend and do all that at a moment's notice, took off work, did it, and then came back. And then we did the funeral and everything after that. But it's just those are difficult circumstances. We've had, I mean, both of my grandmothers, I grew up with to a certain extent, and they passed away.

1:11:53And not that that's not sad, but it's like you're 80-some years old. That's just different than somebody all of a sudden dying when they're 30. You really feel the tragedy there. How do you get through it? Well, I mean, at the time, I was more probably concerned with my parents than I was with me. I did feel, I mean, because she had been in our area for a certain time after college, and then she got a job in North Carolina. So probably the last maybe two years before her death, she wasn't as involved in what we were doing in Florida. We didn't see each other as much. But you don't think anything.

1:12:32Life takes you different directions, right? And so I was just like, well, should I have been doing more at the time? Because we did visit her in North Carolina once or twice. But I was like, should we have gone up more? Should we have had her come down more? Like you start to beat yourself up. A little bit, just because you don't get a mulligan on this one, right? And it just, so that's it. And you're not going to be able to have those experiences again. With your wife, the first lady, she was telling me how with her breast cancer, you know, it was reported in a way that you wouldn't think it was as big of a deal as it actually was because she said it was a rare form.

1:13:12It had spread. When you kind of first found out about that, before you called all the doctors and did all the research yourself, you're thinking what? Well, so she said she had a discomfort. And, you know, my response is, you're fine. Like, that's just how I am. I'm like, you're fine. There's no way you would have a problem, right? You're healthy, you're active, whatever. She's like, no, no. I was like, all right, well, then go see your doctor. So she goes to see, the doctor does an exam and clears her. And so she comes home. She's like, yeah, they said I'm fine. And I'm like, oh, great. And she's like, I don't know, though.

1:13:48I don't feel. And I'm like, because for me, if a doctor said I'm fine, I would never think twice about it. I'd be done. I would never. She just had a feeling they didn't give her the mammogram. And she just had a feeling that she needed to get a mammogram. And so I was like, you're fine. The doctor said, I told you you were fine. The doctor said you're fine. And she just fought. And I'm like, okay, we got to get you a mammogram. So we worked to get the mammogram. And you're waiting for the results. And she's just like, look, you take the phone call. I don't think it's going to be good. And it was either the doctor or someone at the facility calls and said, he's like, listen, look, she's not going to die.

1:14:27But here's the details, all this stuff. And, yeah, so it wasn't like, you know, stage one. I mean, it had spread. but they're like, we have good way to deal with this now and everything, and so then I had to tell her, and you know, it was a really, really difficult situation, partially because no one wants to have that happen to them, but I think more for her is she look and see the three little ones, right? I mean, that I think was what really made it tough, and I'm not saying it would ever be a cup of tea, but when you've got three kids five and under, and you're the mom, and now you're staring down this, which could potentially even take your life, it just adds a weight to it.

1:15:08And so it was really difficult. And I said, all right, we're going to get through it. And I started doing research. And you're the governor at the time, and COVID is going on still. Well, we had that in pretty good check because this is probably October of 2021. Okay, but still, I mean, it's - Yeah, no, it was a crazy time. There was all these things happening. And so we did that. And so I was like, all right, we're going to do it. Now, the good thing is, is I have a lot of friends around the Florida country. People are telling me like, oh, I know this guy here. I know this guy there. I was like, look, we've got a place in Tampa.

1:15:42Let's go there. Let's get the assessment. So they kind of gave me assessment. Here's what we think we need to do. Here's this. Start whenever. So I started calling these other guys. I'm like, here's the diagnosis. Here's what they found. Here's this. What do you think should be done? And they all said exactly the same thing as the Moffitt Cancer Center said. And so we went through with it. And, you know, you've got to go through chemotherapy. You've got to go through radiation. You've got to go through all that. And that's not an easy thing to go through. And she didn't always, like, not that she didn't want to hear it, but, like, I don't think she was as confident as me.

1:16:17But I'm like, you've got this. I was like, this has what you're going through is going to be a 99 % success rate. Like, you're going to do well on this. I know you will. And I did believe that after talking to all these doctors. And so she went through it. But anytime she'd go in for a scan, it's like you kind of just hold your breath, and everything has been good since then. But that kind of got her on the kick of like, okay, what am I putting into my body? How did I get the breast cancer to begin with? She didn't necessarily have a history of it in her family. So she started thinking more about how can she be as healthy as she can be.

1:16:51What was the lesson learned through all of that for you? Again, don't take anything for granted. You just never know there's going to be curveballs in life. Be very grateful for what you have. I mean, you know, you could have a great wife and great kids one day and then something can happen. Maybe it happens to you. Maybe it happens to one of them. I mean, obviously she would have been willing to go through that so that our kids wouldn't have that just as I would have been willing to go through it. So she'd have to go through it and she would have gone through it. So I didn't have to go. That's just kind of the way you think when you're in these situations.

1:17:24But - And get a second opinion too if you really - Well, that's the thing. I mean, I think that she fought for herself more than probably most patients would. And had she not done that when she did it, you know, it would have become more and more symptomatic. But then the question is, if she had waited six months, what would the prognosis have been? And it may not have been good. Running for president. What do you think you learned going through that? Well, I think there's two things. One, it was just a unique situation because you had a former president running. And so it wasn't like you're running against other governors or senators, right?

1:18:03It's like he had a certain hold. And then they were indicting him all the time. And so our voters see this abuse of the legal system to go after him. And that really created a strong base of support for him that was really immovable and emotional. I mean, I'd have people in these early states tell me, you know, you are going to be a great president. I think you're going to be better than Reagan. I'm for Trump this time, but I'll vote for you next time. Well, obviously with that, you know, that's just a difficult mountain to climb. If someone thinks you could be a Reagan-type figure in the Republican Party and they still ain't voting for you because they're voting for Trump, you just know that.

1:18:39So that is just one thing that was just unique. If it was just people that hadn't been president before doing that, it would have just been a much different scenario and environment. But then just nationally, the media is way more important in a presidential than it is in like a statewide. Florida is kind of like a mini presidential because we have all these different constituencies. You go to the panhandle. It's like southern states. You go to Miami. It's more Latin America. You go to Palm Beach. It's like New York transplants. Southwest Florida's Midwest transplants. You've got all this stuff happening.

1:19:13And you've got to be skillful to be able to navigate that and do well. And obviously, I had the biggest victory in the history of the Republicans in Florida in 22. But a lot of that can be driven by me going out there, running commercials, doing that stuff in terms of talking about my record. When you start getting into a national, you've got to engage in the media landscape. And it's very dynamic nowadays. I mean, you know that more than anyone. How do you get known by people who may not, you can go on Fox News, although me, Fox had kind of gone on the other side. They weren't necessarily giving me coverage.

1:19:50They had made that editorial decision, which is fine. That's just the way the cookie crumbles. You go on this podcast, you do this, you do that. Just running commercials in a presidential, that's not enough. So what's the approach to the media? My approach to the media prior to that in Florida worked very well, because I'm like, you know what? These legacy media, these are these are partisan leftists. I ain't dealing with them. I was gonna say you had a bit of a complicated relationship. Well, I'm not dealing with them. You know, they're gonna ask me questions. And if they ask dumb questions, I'm gonna hit them.

1:20:19I'm gonna do that. And then I had the whole conservative ecosystem. Yeah, governor, that's our man. They would elevate you. When 60 Minutes tried to do a hit piece on us, which was bogus, and they got big time criticism for it. I saw you went after the correspondent in real time. Well, and what happened, though, is you had Democrats coming out in Florida saying, this is a lie. Like the idea that somehow they did anything wrong by working with Publix was a lie. And so it's very rare that you would get opposition politicians coming out to defense of someone in the other party. But it was that bad.

1:20:52But I had Fox. I had all these people coming out to my defense. Anytime the media would try to do a hit job, I had this whole thing. Well, when you get into the presidential, a lot of those people were either silent or they were backing Trump, right? So I had to engage with those, and I didn't realize that until much later. But then towards the end of the process, I'm doing town halls on CNN. I'm doing stuff with NBC. I'm doing all this stuff. And I do think that that's something that you have to do. You just have to be out there. Who cares if they ask you unfair questions? That's just the nature of it.

1:21:29Honestly, we're at the point now where people hate the media so much. When they ask an unfair question, people don't like them for doing it, right? They want substance. And so to be able to do it, and so just think, where we are now, where we were four years ago when I got reelected, Media Landscape, to 2024 changed. And now it's changed even more. You were obviously leading for a while. Second behind Trump. I was never beating Trump. I was the one guy that they thought could potentially give him a run. What was it like for you, just kind of on a personal front, when the outcome wasn't what you were hoping for?

1:22:07So I had all this stuff, the media and how that played out. Some of it I should have engaged, some of it, you know, I had people in kind of the right side who had been for me before, who I wasn't getting play from. So I'm like, well, how the hell do I do getting traction? So I went to Iowa and I was like showing up at places. I'd meet with like 20 people at a time, right, trying to say, OK, let's build it from the grassroots. And then we had Iowa and, you know, I came in second place by a considerable distance. So I'm just looking at it and I'm like, you know what? I had so many people tell me, we love you.

1:22:39We think you're awesome. We think you're going to be president one day, but we got to go with Trump. And so, like, you either accept that message or you don't. And so I exited, I endorsed him, and I just moved on. Like, literally the next day, I'm out doing press conferences here about my legislative agenda for that. Oh, come on, it has to bruise the ego. Not really. It doesn't because, like, it's... As, I mean, you busted your ass for a long time to get to this place. You're a competitive guy. It is what it is, though. But that's the thing. It's just like, you know, you'd have to know what you can control and what you can't control, right?

1:23:14I saw when they started indicting him, I saw his numbers go up. It just was what it was, right? To what extent do you think you should have been more aggressive in attacking him? Well, that's the thing. You know, so we're friends now. Now, he tells me, he's like, you should have attacked me. He's like, you never attacked me. And part of the reason I didn't, I mean, honestly, I like him. I mean, like, I know when you're in the pot, he'll throw pot shots at you, whatever. But that's all just politics. Well, you're kind of between a rock and a hard place and going after him, too, right? Well, that's true.

1:23:41So once he was getting the lawfare, I think people felt like, you know, this guy's being persecuted by all this stuff or whatever. But he has told me, he's like, you should have attacked. You should have attacked. Honestly, the reality is, I was aligned with him in his first term. I was aligned with him on most of his major policies. We did have a difference over COVID. I mean, he obviously kept Fauci on. I was a big critic of Fauci. So there were some. And when he said he won the 2020 election and not Biden, like you said, President Biden won. So it's not as if you've always fallen in line with what he said.

1:24:16But that's actually one time where I criticized him because the CARES Act had the mail ballots, right? Like, I'm not a fan of mass mail balloting. I think that is a problem. I think it was a problem in Georgia. But he signed the bill. And I said, well, wait a minute. You know, he signed the bill. But be that as it may, I mean, the reality is you can either just sit there and say, oh, what was me? I didn't win. Or you could just say, you know what? And I saw the writing on the wall. I mean, let's just be clear. I knew I'd probably come in second in Iowa. So the question is, could I come in a strong second and then maybe have the coalescing?

1:24:50And when it was more of a weak second, it just is what it is. I mean, you know, we were projecting 200 ,000 people in the caucus. There were 100 ,000 that showed out. So half of the turnout showed out. And I think it was because some of the people that maybe would have been open to us, they just thought it was a fait accompli. They didn't think it was worth participating in. They're like, Trump's going to win it. So it is what it is. So I felt endorse, go back to getting things done. Because, you know, I'd done a lot in the six months after my election into the May of 23. We did a heck of a lot.

1:25:22And then I was running from like May of 23 until January with the caucus. And so I just kind of picked right up where I left off and then just kind of moved forward. But I just don't think like, you know, not everything is going to work out in life. That's just the way it is. I had a great resume, certainly Republican voters. They appreciated what I had done. They thought I would be a good candidate or that. They just thought it was his time to get another shot. That was just the nature of it. There really wasn't anything I could do to change that. What do you remember from the December 2017 Air Force One flight with him?

1:25:57Well, so, you know, he had been somebody. I didn't really know him before he got elected. I campaigned with him in 2016. But I, like, I watched The Apprentice. I mean, like, I always thought he, like, when I was a kid, if you asked me who's a rich guy, I would have said Trump, right? He had a big brand and a big persona. And I was positive on it. I know some people aren't. I was positive on it. So he gets in, and they're going after him on the Russia stuff, you know, which was a hoax, right? But at the beginning, Washington believed in the Russia collusion. Official Washington believed. A lot of Republicans in Congress, Democrats in the bureaucracy.

1:26:32Although, in fairness, I will say at the beginning, you would listen to how he would talk about Russia and President Putin, and it would have you scratching your head a little bit. That may be true in terms of how he approached it, but that's a separate question of whether he was doing collusion, right? So I'm going out there saying, there's not collusion. And I was one of the few. I mean, you had maybe five or six of us. And he would call me and say, hey, thanks. I appreciate that. Because he was not getting a lot of support. Now, like every Republican, it's like, oh, collusion, all this other stuff.

1:27:09But at the time, those investigations were actually launched by Republicans. House investigation, Senate investigation. And then Rosenstein put Mueller in to do the Mueller investigation. So I developed a relationship from him with that. And so he was asking me, what do you want to do with all this? And I said, well, I may run. And so I just said, you know, would you do a tweet for me? And he's like, I'll do a tweet. And nothing happened, nothing happened. Then like two, three weeks later, you know, he put out a tweet saying this guy would be an amazing governor. He's a great guy, whatever. And then that kind of gave me some added credibility.

1:27:44The people that knew me in Florida, I was their guy, right? But I was one congressman of 27. And so then you start to kind of do that. And so, yeah, I mean, it just is what it is. Elon Musk, your presidential campaign was originally announced on Twitter. You've worked with Elon Musk. That's another lesson learned, though, what to do. Do a standard announcement. And here's the thing, too. I don't even know why I agreed to do it. I mean, I thought maybe it would do. But when you have a beautiful wife and beautiful kids, you need to be out there publicly so people can see that. And so that was a big mistake.

1:28:23Okay, the flip side is, you know, you have Elon Musk approaching you about the idea of doing this. That could be attractive also in the moment. And I know you guys have worked together with Starlink and Hurricanes. How about the most interesting experience you've had with him? He's probably the best entrepreneur in the history of the country when you look at the diversity of things he's been able to do and do very well. You know, Henry Ford was great, you know, all the way up. But like this guy, he's flying rockets. He's building cars. He's doing the internet. He's got tunnel company. He's got all this different stuff.

1:29:01And so he clearly is just wired on a higher level than most of us mortals. And, you know, I'm educated. People think, you know, so I was like, when you're dealing with him, he definitely is at a higher level. There's no question about that. Can you feel that when you're talking to him? I think so, yeah. Really? I think so, yeah. I think he, you could tell he just, he can think of things. He thinks of things, I think, in ways that are a little bit deeper and more analytical than your typical, even very successful person. But he's a guy that gets things done. So our hurricanes call him, hey, we need internet after Hurricane Ian.

1:29:37And is this you reaching out to him directly? He sends all the stuff. So, you know, because you have to have the thing on the ground that gets the satellite. So we're able to, like, link all these businesses up to this. We have our emergency. We have all this stuff. And that is really good internet. I mean, honestly, it's as good internet as you're ever going to get, how he does that. And so that's just become part and parcel of what we've done in emergency response. And so he's played a big role in that. So I think I have asked him, why build Teslas in California? Do it in Florida as well as Texas.

1:30:12You know, there's an inertia with this, though, right? I mean, if you have all this stuff, I get it. That's the one thing we've never had, really, is auto manufacturing in Florida. I think we'd have some good places to be able to do it. I know he's got a big foothold in Texas. He's talked about doing things in the Boring Company in Florida with some tunnels. You know, that can be tricky in Florida, although we do have a very nice one that goes out to the port of Miami, very expensive. That happened before I was governor. His are a little bit smaller, a little bit more economical. I want to talk to you about your personality.

1:30:43First, when I was talking to the first lady, she called out your memory to me. I was talking to your first chief of staff, Shane, who is convinced it's photographic. Your thoughts? I don't know that that's true. I think, like, for example, when I meet people, like if I meet somebody who's from Sarasota, they come up to me and I'll do their name. If I go back there, I will remember. If I see that person in Montana or something, my brain is like, well, wait a minute. I know you from here, and it doesn't compute as well. So there are certain things I do, things that are important, like important facts, history, whatever, that I really key in on.

1:31:24I think that I retain very well. Have you always been that way? Well, I think I've been that way. But things that are not necessarily important, I may not notice some things that some other people notice about, I don't know. Like, I mean, it's like I walk in, I'm not going to, like, worry about what you're wearing. It just doesn't matter to me, right? There's some people, they will walk in, they will know the belt that you have on. That's really important that they key in on all those things. For me, it's like, you know, I'm not trying to like pick somebody apart or anything. It's like, okay, you know, you're the guy that wants to get this done for the state of Florida.

1:31:57All right, I'm there. I know what that means. Let's get it done. What does your average workday entail? It's very dependent on the time of year and what's going on. So, for example, we had the Surfside Tower collapse in South Florida 2021. So I get a call at 3 in the morning saying this condominium collapsed. I'm like, is it bad? Well, we're finding it out. Then like 2 hours, it's bad. I was like, I'm going down. So I get in the plane. I go down there. Oh, apocalyptic sight of rubble. But, yeah, there's rescue operations. So we're there coordinating all that. I do a state of emergency. We get to a meeting with families.

1:32:34I fly back, come with Casey and the kids, put them to bed, sleep. 6 in the morning, I'm back out. Fly back down there, do it. And we did that for like two weeks straight where we're just doing it. Hurricanes, I'll be out. The prep, we're in the emergency operations center. Three or four days out probably. We're there full throttle. Storm hits. We have our guys go. I'm going to highlight different things, going to talk to people. And that can go. And we had two in a row back to back in 2024. So we had about a six-week period where we were kind of nonstop with that. Now, we're in March. The legislature isn't in session now.

1:33:14I'll go down. I signed legislation in the heartland of Florida. We'll do different things. So it can vary now. But you'll start your work day when and end it when, typically? Well, it's interesting. I'm usually up before 6. My wife tells me I should get more sleep, that the sleep's good. But that's typically what I usually go to the gym. And then I'm usually heading to the airport. and then we're flying to where we're going. If I'm doing the office, then I'm usually getting into the office around 8.30. But if I'm flying out, usually we're wheels up before then. And so we go to different parts of Florida to do different things.

1:33:50Sometimes I'll bring money. Sometimes I'll sign bills. Sometimes I'll just, I'll meet with people. We're very active getting around the state. I think it's a mistake to just be in the state capital and this is what you imbibe because this is the political class up here, right? Those folks are not the same. And not that they're bad. They're just not the same as somebody who's trying to make ends meet, somebody who's trying to keep a business afloat, somebody that's trying to pay their way through college. And that's what you really have to do. So, you know, I show up. I go to Wawa. I go to all these places and just show up.

1:34:23And, look, I take a lot of pictures with people. But I will hear things from them. And if I'm in Fort Myers and I hear it, and then I'm in Seminole County and I hear it, and then I hear it. If I'm hearing the same type of stuff, then I know this is something that we need to be concerned about. And so you've got to get out of the Capitol, and you've got to be, especially in a big state. When does the day end? Sometimes it'll end. I mean, you know, last night my day probably ended at, you know, 9.30 p.m. It just depends on what you're doing. Where I'm going with that is, from what I understand from talking to people close to you, you work kind of around the clock, right?

1:35:02We are. I mean, you know, what I've learned over the years is, like, if I'm in the car or I'm in the plane, I try to just knock it out for a little bit, right? I mean, like, you've got to pick your time. You can get 20 minutes in a car ride. You get 30 minutes in a plane. I've learned to be able to take a nap anywhere. You can put me in all these situations, and I can figure out how to do it. So that's a way to kind of just recharge. In what ways are you difficult? I mean, I can be impatient. I mean, it's— And that looks like what? Well, I want results, right? and I want the bottom line up front.

1:35:34So like if you were briefing me, and you may be saying a lot of great things. And by the way, Shane, your first chief of staff, was telling me how he would always warn staffers before going in with you. If you don't know something, tell them that, and you'll look it up. Don't. Exactly. Oh, no, for sure. But so it's like, so if someone is going through, like I know where they're going, right, and I want to just get to the point and do it. And sometimes that's fine, because sometimes people may need to be more concise. But it's also the case where, you know what, maybe they're going to spin it a little bit different, that listening to the analysis may do that.

1:36:13And I'm just like, OK, what's the bottom line? Let's go. Let's do it. I think, by and large, it serves you well. But I also think there are times when you've got to let people say their piece a little bit more. And it shouldn't just be you have 30 seconds to go and go from there. Two criticisms that have been tossed your way before. You've been called thin-skinned before. You've been called a bully before. Your thoughts? Well, I think when they say bully, it just means I'm an energetic executive. I make big, strong, resolute decisions. So if I remove like a Soros prosecutor, they will say you're being a bully.

1:36:48No, I'm using my executive authority under the Constitution to relieve someone of their duty who breached their duty to the public, and I'm making sure the people are safer as a result. So there's this idea that if you wield lawful power, that you're, quote, bullying people, when in reality, I'm discharging the duties that I've done. The thin skin, I think that that's absolutely not true. I don't listen to criticism. I am not online doing anything like that. I mean, just think about COVID. That was an international feeding frenzy against what we were doing in COVID day after day. If that was something that got to me, I wouldn't have had the fortitude to stick through that.

1:37:24When the criticism your way during COVID was at its absolute worst, take me to that moment and what you remember and what you're thinking at the time. I got elected to look out for the people that I was elected to serve. It's not to protect my own political hide. I was taking a beating, but I believed in what I was doing was right. I had studied the data unlike most other governors and unlike a lot of these people that would go on CNN that were supposedly experts. And I had to care more about their jobs and their livelihoods and their kids' education than I did about protecting my own job. So I didn't know how it was going to work out politically.

1:38:06I resigned myself to doing what's right because you know what I would rather be true to myself and earn the indemnity the ridicule and the criticism of others than to be something I'm not and and have You know dislike of my own self when I look in the mirror, right? I needed to be able to look in the mirror knowing I was doing what I believed for the right reasons and we'll let the chips fall where they may. And so I had people, well-meaning supporters of mine calling me, you know, April, May, June of 2020. You got to do this. Oh man, you just, and it was like, because what I was doing was so different from the narrative, but the narrative was just wrong.

1:38:53I mean, that's just the reality. The idea that it was controversial to say every kid in Florida has a right to be in a classroom in person if their parent wanted. We said if the parent didn't want they could do virtual, although I don't know that there was 99 % of the time they should have been in, but it's fine. And it was almost like we were sending, they would put coffins outside the Department of Education building, the teachers unions would do. That was wrong what they were doing. That was hysteria. This went off the rails. So we were doing what's right. But it's easy for somebody to think that at the time when - When that's all you're being told.

1:39:30When everybody else, all the other states are doing one thing and then. But the question, though, what was the underlying data telling us? And what did you see that made you realize I'm going to do this? I saw an age stratification in COVID mortality. In other words, very little COVID mortality for people that were young. And of that, it was usually people that had really serious health issues anyways. And again, that's not something to sneeze at. But it's like you're not going to shut all the other kids out of school over that. And then even the elderly, a lot of them had comorbidities, too. So you did that.

1:40:03So that was one. The other one was antibody studies that showed Stanford did one. A lot of people had the antibodies way more than we thought. So you had this case. We've documented an infection. There were 100 times more people with antibodies. And so that told me that you're not going to be able to contain this thing. You're not going to be able to eradicate it through non-pharmaceutical interventions, that this was something that had already spread enough. And we can't shut down society. Certainly in those, if you had like the black plague and it was like, you know, one person has it, then to quarantine an area or something so that you didn't, you know, you could have that conversation.

1:40:44But this is something that clearly had spread beyond just a few thousand cases. But what that also told you is the mortality rate was lower than what the World Health Organization said was 3.4%. Well, I mean, if you have 3.4%, if you have 100 million that eventually get infected, that's a massive death rate. Reality, that was the case rate. They knew certain infections, and then they did the mortality. They didn't account for all the people that had asymptomatic infections. So I saw there that the mortality was more consistent with a severe flu than it was with like a black plague or something like that.

1:41:22And you know what's interesting? February of 2020, there was a piece written by the CDC director, I think the director of NIH, and Fauci, basically saying we think it's going to be more akin to a severe flu based on what we're seeing. They were right then. Something flipped to where all of a sudden shutting down the world became the answer, but it was never justified based on the underlying data. So as a governor, I'm being told I have to do all this stuff, and I'm like, well, wait a minute, don't I owe it to the people I represent to actually convince myself? Don't I have to look at this stuff, data and all that?

1:42:02And what I found was there were actually people that agreed with what I was saying. You just couldn't speak out at the time. Social media would take you down if you criticize lockdowns or masks or anything like that. There was massive censorship going on. So that was that. And I was getting pounded in the media, pounded in the media. And then what happened was, you know, the days go by, weeks go by, months go by, people are like, oh, s***, Florida's still standing? They told us, why don't we do like Florida? Heck, we want to go visit Florida. Hey, we'll move to Florida, all this stuff. and it shifted probably six months to where, hey, you can go to Disney World in Florida, but you can't go in California.

1:42:42You're on the beaches in Florida, but the cops will chase you down if you're jogging on the beach in California. How is that? So you had continued negative media, but then I think what happened was the lived experience of people trumped what the narrative was saying. And it would be interesting because I would literally have like universal, oh, you're doing so good. We wish you had you in California because they were doing well in Florida. And I'm like, it's interesting you say that because, you know, one of your sister companies, MSNBC, is saying how bad I'm doing. They're saying California is better.

1:43:13Oh, no, no. This is Florida is doing it the right way. So you saw that evolution of that. And I think, look, I can I can list off a lot of things about Florida. We've had number one economy three years in a row. We've had more income move into this state since I've been governor has ever moved into another state in all of American history. I can talk about all these different things. I don't think that happens without taking the stands that I took early in COVID. Really? I don't. Why? I think we were bucking the narrative to such an extent that it was attractive for people. And part of this was the George Floyd and the rioting and the crime that we didn't allow happen to.

1:43:51So it was kind of the COVID misery and how those blue jurisdictions were doing. And then not keeping the community safe. I think those two, we were such a contrast because we've always had lower taxes than these places. That's not anything new, right? How come we didn't have the same flood then? We didn't have some, don't get me wrong. But the amount of income and the amount that moved in over a few year period, that's unprecedented in American history. What are you looking to do with property taxes? Well, we're looking to give people relief from the high cost of living. I mean, we've had a major inflationary period in American history, one of the most inflationary.

1:44:34Groceries, all these things. Who knows what's going to happen with oil? The one thing we control is tax. And so in Florida, local governments get property tax. We don't get it at the state. We've got a plush rainy day fund. We've paid down half our debt since I've been governor. I've got all this great stuff. We're doing great. Local governments, when I became governor, were taking in$32 billion. Now they're taking in$60 billion. So the revenue's almost doubled in seven years. Why? Because they're assessing the values higher, and the values have gone up. And so we're saying, okay, if you're a Florida resident and you're homesteading your property, that's your primary homesteaded residence, we think that should be excluded.

1:45:16Now that's about 30 % of the overall property tax revenue. If you just did it on day one, that would take you back to like 2022 levels of spending. So sometimes people say, oh, you can't get rid of all property taxes. You won't fund services. Well, I agree. If you got rid of all of them, you'd be in that predicament. But we're in a situation where we can do the homesteaded properties. If you have Airbnbs, you can still be taxed. A rich guy from Brazil buys a place in Coconut Grove. That can still be taxed. The business commercial, fine. It can still be taxed. So it's got to go on the ballot in November of 2026.

1:45:54And it'll be something that would be phased in most likely. But we could get to a point very quickly in Florida where 90 some percent are not paying anything. And eventually we'd phase in the elimination. So it can be done. And if we don't do anything, they're going to have$84 billion in revenue in 2031. So that's 12, 13 years to go from 32 to 84. So when people will say, you can't do it, you're not going to have any services, just ask them, did we not have schools and police in 2019 when they were taking in$32 billion? Of course we did. Now, give them inflation. Give them population growth. Give them a couple percent just for kicks on a Saturday night.

1:46:35That takes you to about$46 or$47 billion. It doesn't take you to$60. So how would you want to do that? maintain the growth of these governments or give Floridians really historic property tax relief. How do you view the balance between federal and state government? Well, I'm a constitutionalist. And so James Madison in Federalist 45 said the powers delegated under the proposed constitution, because remember he was arguing for the constitution to be adopted, are few and defined. Those belonging to the states are numerous and indefinite. And we've gotten away from that as a country because the federal government has grown over many, many years, both in terms of the scope of its power and also the size of its spending prowess that it uses in various ways to reduce the autonomy of states.

1:47:23But on day-to-day issues, when we had the hurricane in 2022 and the hurricanes in 24, FEMA was not on the front lines. We were on the front lines. The local emergency responders were on the front. We are the first line of defense. when people are committing criminal offenses and they need to be prosecuted, taken off the street. That's a local sheriff or police department that's handling that. Things like education, all the things that affect you the most in your daily life are at the state level. Now, the federal government's tried to intrude on that over the years, but we have a huge responsibility to maintain.

1:48:02And that's why I think because of the federalist structure, that's why I think you've had so much differential. in population migration, in wealth migration, because you really do have laboratories of democracies, right? You are going to see New York approach things in a certain way. I mean, you had the governor there a few years ago saying Republicans should leave New York State, that they didn't want Republicans. Now she's saying they should go back so they can pay taxes to New York State. Probably a pretty tough sell, right? So that's one approach. There's an approach in, like, Illinois, where they eliminated cash bail.

1:48:36I don't think that's been successful. I think most people don't. But you have the ability to elect people to be able to adopt policies that are going to be very meaningful for your quality of life. And I think people have voted with their feet very resoundingly over my tenure as governor in Florida. And it's not just Florida, but we've obviously been the focal point. How does what's going on with AI and this AI Bill of Rights play into what we were just talking about? Well, I think so. If you look at the founding fathers, what they did with the Declaration and then the Constitution, if you look at the underlying philosophy, there's nothing new under the sun.

1:49:15It's as relevant today as it was then. Yeah, they had horse and buggy. We have chatbots. Yeah, they wrote with a quill pen. We have all this technology. But what they were doing, they were diagnosing human nature. They understood there were flaws in human nature. They understand because of those flaws, when power is concentrated, it's apt to be abused. And so they built this architecture to make sure that you didn't have a consolidation of government power. I think if you apply that to artificial intelligence, these are companies that are exercising more power over our society than any companies have ever exercised in the history of the republic.

1:49:55And so I think the founders would be concerned about, okay, you're doing this, a chat bot, you're putting in information, and you're getting an answer. Well, that answer is only good as what the data set that they're using has. Human nature is flawed, right? So whoever controls those data sets are going to have an ability to manipulate what we even perceive as reality going forward. And that power, if left unchecked, it will be abused. The founders would tell us it will be abused. So I think it has implications for governance. I mean, it's got a lot of implications for jobs. You know, there are some people that are really accelerationist on AI, and they say that it's like a good thing that it's going to wipe out all these jobs.

1:50:40I don't think most Americans think that's necessarily something we should be subsidizing, right? I mean, technology is what it is. It's disruptive. But do you want to put your thumb on the scale in favor of it if it's going to end up displacing people? I think people have a lot of concerns about that. There's also a lot of concerns about how this interacts with children. And unfortunately, some of these chatbots have done things that are very, very troubling in terms of sexualization with minors, goading them into committing suicide. Why is that happening? Because these are things done by human beings.

1:51:13They are going to not only exemplify the flaws of human nature, but in many respects, magnify the flaws. And so what I've proposed is like, listen, we've got to be eyes wide open about this. We don't just say like, let the tech companies do whatever and the states can't do anything. That is not a viable pathway. And that's where there's, I guess, some disagreement, right? Whether this is regulated at the state level or the federal level. Well, here's the thing, though. Does Congress have the authority to pass a federal statute providing a framework for artificial intelligence? Yes, they do have the authority.

1:51:52Have they exercised that authority? No. Will they exercise that authority? I think almost assuredly they would not be able to agree on what should happen with that. So in the interim, should states be kneecapped from doing it? That's what they were trying to do in the summer of 25, basically say states couldn't touch AI for 10 years. So what we're doing is, and even the Trump administration has acknowledged the child safety transparency, that does not stifle innovation. And to the extent it's stifling going after kids, that's something that we want to stifle. But I do think it's going to be from a consumer perspective, is what you're dealing with real?

1:52:32Do you have a real person on the line? Is what you're seeing in a commercial real? I mean, they could take you and put words in your mouth and put you on TV saying the opposite of what you actually believe. Should there be recourse for that or is that just fine? So there's all these different issues that I think arise from this. And so what we're proposing is let's just have a framework where children are protected, parents' rights are respected, consumers have disclosure about what they're dealing with, but that if AI is used to harm you, that you have an ability to have legal recourse. And you're going to see this become more and more.

1:53:10And here's the thing. Those companies, their job is to make money, right? They're publicly traded companies. Maximize the value for your shareholders. I got no problem with that. That's how our capitalist system works. But that incentive for them to make money is not the same goal of what's best for America. There may be some times where that could coincide. But is their goal going to be to get as many people, including kids, subscribe so they can sell ads and subscribe? Of course it is. That's just what they have to do. So I think as policymakers, we have to recognize that, mediate it, and say, okay, let's make sure this technology develops in a way that's going to enhance our experience as human beings, that's going to reinforce our values as Americans, not in ways that are going to displace us or undermine the human experience or obviously going to be conflicting with our values.

1:54:03As we wrap, for the first time in a long time, the path is less defined for you come 2027. What's that like? Well, you know, it's interesting because I've got a lot that I'm doing now, so I don't really have a lot of time. I get asked about it a lot, but I am not like, oh, I've got to do this, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this. I'm going to run through the tape here and be able to see the rest of this stuff through. And I think we'll be able to say, you know what? We had eight years, and show me someone that's been more consequential. Because if you think about it, we could talk about all the policy.

1:54:42I talked about, oh, we're number one in this, number one in that. But when I took office, so it's great to do good policy, right? You want to do that. And you don't do it for political reasons. But if you're making tough decisions, if there's a good political payoff, isn't that a great thing? Some people will do the right thing just because it's the right thing. most people in elected office will do the right thing if they think it's better for them, right? When I took office in 18, we had 300 ,000 more registered Democrats than Republicans. We were the quintessential swing state. One-point race, year after year.

1:55:15That was the norm in Florida. I won re-election four years later by a million and a half votes. It was the biggest Republican victory in the history of the Republican Party in a governor's race in Florida. Now we have 1.4 million more Republicans. So what we've shown in Florida is if you have a solid foundation of the principles, the conservative principles to me are the principles that this country was founded on. You've got to apply them differently today than they did then. But I think the principles are enduring. And if you have that foundation and you're willing to pursue policies with courage and conviction and really be bold and draw a sharp contrast, people will respond.

1:55:55We've moved the electorate. You know, we say we're in this divided country. We were the quintessential example of a division in Florida. We were 50-50. Everything was a pitch struggle. And then now we've been able to move it in a direction. Why? Because we produced results. And so I think that's something that's really important. I'm mindful. I've got more in the tank. I mean, we're going to be doing Everglades stuff. I got a lot I got to continue doing on all that. And so we're going to run through the tape. And then when the dust settles, you know, we'll be able to do. But people will see me.

1:56:24I'll be active in one way or another. Certainly politically, I can tell you for sure there's two things that I'm doing now that I'll continue to do. And that's trying to get the states to certify amendments to the Constitution. Term limits for Congress and a balanced budget requirement for Congress. And if we did those two, I think it'd be very good. So Florida's done it. We got 28 or 29 states for balanced budget. We got 13 or 14 now for term limits and being able to do it. So I go, I show up, I testified in front of the Kentucky legislature a couple months ago. I go to Montana. I've been to these places meeting with legislators, telling them they have the opportunity to do this.

1:57:05Because I think what's happened, nobody has confidence in Congress anymore, right? Like, you don't even think that they can do it. Well, I think you need to change the incentives. And I think term limits and balanced budget will do that. So I'm going to continue to be involved in that. And there'll be a lot of other things that we'll be involved with. But the time for that is once I've run through the tape. On the personal front, what's it like, though, for it to be kind of open? It's exciting. I think doing two terms, people are like, we should get rid of term limits so we want you to stay. Yeah, but you know what?

1:57:39If there wasn't term limits, I probably wouldn't have had an opportunity to run, right? I mean, you could have someone be here for 20 years. So I think two terms is enough. I think that I can say everything I promised I delivered when I sat there the first day I looked around the office and I'm like I don't know what SOB is gonna succeed me But I'm they're not gonna have much to do because I'm gonna get all the meat I can off the bone and we've done that So I think it's good But I think it's a lot it's really I think exciting to see okay, you know I'm kind of no longer in this position I'm gonna have more freedom to do a bunch of other things the one thing I think both my wife and I have talked about is you know, you're here, this is the governor's mansion.

1:58:18And, you know, it's nice, but that's not really it. Our oldest daughter was two when we moved in here. Our son was nine months. Our third wasn't even born yet. And when was the last time an actual family had moved here? It's been a while. Yeah, it's been a while. So I think it's like not even about being governor. I mean, if we were living in like a suburb of Orlando for these years, just moving, you know, out and going to a new, it just, it's a change, right? I mean, so this is kind of what our kids know. This is their frame of reference. So we're thinking about it more towards them about, okay, what does that mean for their schooling?

1:58:53What does that mean for this? What does that mean for that? There obviously have been news stories about the idea of your wife running for governor. I brought it up to her yesterday, and she's like, I'll address that at the appropriate time. Well, here's the thing. I mean, she's never wanted to run for elected office. It's just not what she's aspired to do. But when people see her out there, you're not going to find a more articulate spokesman for conservative ideas than she is. You're not going to find somebody more telegenic than she is. She's flattered that people ask her and that they see in her leadership.

1:59:28But she's also just, she's got young kids and she's a mom and she puts a lot of work into that. You know, I do as a dad too, but she's able to do things with that. But there's certain things, it's like if we're going to go in the front yard and hit baseballs, my kids want me throwing them the baseballs, right? Like, no, they don't want mom throwing. But there's other things, they want mom instead of dad on doing things, right? So it just is what it is. That's about what parenting is all about. The wife and the husband, they complement. So, but this is prime time for their upbringing, right? And we've been able to manage it well on this.

2:00:02But I will tell you, having the kids be so young running these campaigns was easier than if they were teenagers because they don't know any of the stuff that comes your way, right? They don't know what they're saying about, oh, your dad's this, your dad's that. Because the reality is when you get out there and you put yourself out there, you are going to get so much stuff and 99 % of it is total bunk, right? But if a kid is hearing, a 13, 14-year-old kid, that may be something that wouldn't be as easy to deal with. And so having done it then, I think they've had a good experience. But that's, I think, more of just the family life is going to shift.

2:00:42When Pete Hexeth's Secretary of Defense confirmation was looking dubious, there was talk about how you might have been under consideration then. Likelihood you would ever take a role in the administration? Well, during that, you know, I was never offered or asked for anything. I know my name got thrown out there. It's never anything I've aspired to do, you know, but at the same time, like I'm a service oriented guy. Like, you know, if I can be beneficial. So I would never rule anything out. But I would say when you hear my name ever mentioned, that's just people trying to create fodder. It's definitely not me trying to position.

2:01:20It's just not something I've done, partially because when I endorsed the president in January 2024, I was like, okay, I got to do this, I got to do that. I got a lot of stuff in this job. And so my mindset has always been that I'm here doing the job, not trying to get an appointment or anything like that. Just running, obviously, in your own right, that's a little bit different if you get elected. But trying to get an appointment when I'm already in this position, it's just not something that I've really tried to do. And then your close friend Mike told me, I hope he takes a minute. like he said, Ron deserves a break.

2:01:57He has earned that right. Well, you know, it's interesting. We don't really talk about kind of like, you know, what we'll do in terms of just like for fun, that would be different than what we're doing now. Is there something that we've wanted to do that maybe we can't do? Because, you know, the reality of this job is you have security detail. If I show up somewhere, it is not unnoticed. Let's just put it that way. We didn't do any vacations from the time I got elected until the time I got re-elected. I mean, it was just one thing after another. So I get re-elected. I was like, you know what? My wife and I, we're going to take, we're going to do so.

2:02:33So we go down, we go to the Keys, we go to this neat place, which is like viewed as like very private. We get there, we go to check in. I take two steps. Governor, can I do a picture? Can I do, I'm taking pictures within five minutes of being on that. And she just kind of rolled her eyes. It was fine. We ended up having fun, But it just it's a little bit different, right, when you're doing that stuff. So I'm still going to be known and maybe I'll even still be out there. But to be able to maybe not have the same level of bubble and all that other stuff and to be a little bit more normal. Because it's interesting when you're running for governor, you don't have security.

2:03:09I had to provide my own. And I didn't really like to. I'm like, why would anyone care? It's a crazy world. I'm glad I did it. The night you get elected, my opponent conceded. I walk out the hotel room and I have the security on me. They follow me to the speech. They follow me back to the room. Sir, what time in the morning? Like, what do you mean? We're going to take you to the airport. They take you to the airport. We fly back. We're in Ponte Vedra Beach in Northeast Florida. I wake up the next morning to go for a run like I would do in the neighborhood. And I've got SUVs following me. And I've got guys jogging with me.

2:03:40I'm like, this is a little bit different, right? I mean, it's really just that your life does change. And so we've managed that well. But I also think like being able to maybe get out of that bubble a little bit, you know, may be good for us and the family. Thanks for doing this. Thanks a lot.

2:03:58And that's a wrap. Thanks for listening to this week's podcast. Don't forget to leave a rating and review. And for more in-depth interviews, visit GrahamBensinger.com.