Jason Derulo: Multi-platinum artist and one of TikTok’s biggest creators

29:40exercise, but then you get two hours of sleep. I mean, that's the thing that'll kill you. No, no, the sleep deprivation is the worst thing for you, apparently. It predisposes you to all these health challenges. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. This was like a new thing that I learned later in life. And had I known that, I'm glad I didn't know, though, because I think I would be a totally different person today. I squeezed out every ounce of every day, more so than anybody. Like, it's not even close. Like, nobody squeezed the juice out of a day like I did. All of those things were difficult, but then you put it all together, and it became a really tough time, especially because I wasn't able to...

30:32I wasn't really able to like eat real meals a lot of the time. What? I didn't have any money. I was eating four bananas a day because they were a quarter each. And you were reasonably constipated. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Learned that later in life too. I was like damn, I didn't know I had a problem but it's the bananas. You can't eat that much potassium. back you up. But nah, so

31:07the bananas, the salmon smoothies that you talked about earlier, it was perfect for me because those little cans of salmon, it was not like good salmon, by the way. It was not like a strip of salmon that I was, it was the canned salmon that has bones in it. So you put it, it was worse, it's worse than you think it was. because if it was actually a strip of cooked salmon, it probably wouldn't be as bad, but it's the salmon in the tuna can. You know the can joints? It has bones in them, so you try to take all the bones out, but they're so small and so brittle, the bones break up in there. But it was super cheap, and you put Tabasco sauce in there, and it was kind of like a little Bloody Mary vibe.

31:53You would have to learn a song one day, and then do it by memory in front of class the next day. What do you feel like that taught you? That I'm not good at remembering s**t. That's the reason why I started writing songs in the first place, because I couldn't remember nobody else's s**t. So I started to freestyle. So if I wanted to sing, I had to sing something, right? So I had to, like, just go off the top of my head and just, like, start singing anything. And that's kind of what, like, gave me a knack for melody. and then at eight is when I decided to write my first entire song. And Melody, you have referred to as one of your greatest strengths, I think.

32:36What is it about that? Honestly, it's really just about me having done it way more than other people and me giving way more options than the normal person would. So, for instance, when I'm writing a song, I'll do, I'll freestyle a verse around 12 to 15 times. Same thing for a pre-hook, 12 to 15 times. Same thing for a hook, 12 to 15 times. So I have possibly 15 options for a hook, 15 options for a pre-hook, and then 15 options for a verse. Most people are just writing whatever they think is good at that particular time. No, I have 15 options. And why do you do it that way? Because the average person is going to write one verse.

33:37I'm essentially writing 15 verses against your one verse. how are you going to compete against my verse? And not only am I doing that, but I'm also writing three songs. So that's really 45 verses that I wrote in a day and you wrote one. So it's kind of hard to compete. When you reach to a certain point of songwriting, it becomes a numbers game, right? And I write so many songs that

34:05the standout songs eventually come, you know, they just happen because you've written so many. But that only happens when you reach to a certain level of songwriting. And do you know when the standout songs come? Or do you sometimes you have no idea what's going to hit? I mean, you take a strong guess, you know? I like to do little testings, right? And the best thing that you could possibly do is play people several songs because nobody's going to tell you your s*** sucks, even if it sucks. so what I learned to do was to give people options and that way you can figure out what your best material is as opposed to saying hey do you like this song and they'll be like yeah I like it and then they don't actually like it but if I play you three songs you're gonna you can easily be honest about which one you like the best you know what I'm saying so that's the the model that I've always kind of taken when it comes to choosing songs you used the word shine a little bit earlier in the conversation.

35:04And I understand when you were writing for other people, you would try to cater to that person so the person shines as who they are. What does that mean, and can you give examples of it? Writing songs for other people is basically speaking in another person's voice. But it doesn't always happen like that. so a song called Me Too for Meghan Trainor in writing that song with some great friends of mine I was really thinking about myself you know I was like talking about standing on couches and like being really cocky and like loving myself but when I listened to it back I was just like I don't know like I don't know if people really want to hear me bragging about myself like it doesn't it seems kind of off uh but coming from a female perspective it was magical it was like a whole different thing um and for Meghan Trainor uh that song became a number one hit you know the song called Me Too but like in my voice like I loved the melody I thought sonically it was great but I was like I I don't think people really want to hear me like talk about myself like this.

36:28But from a female perspective, it feels like woman empowerment. It feels like, you know, it has like a totally different feel. So sometimes it happens like that where like I'm trying to do something that just doesn't work for me that possibly could work for somebody else. And will it quickly hit you in those moments? No, I mean, we had that song for months before Megan just heard it by chance one day. And she was like, I love this shit. Like, I didn't go away and was like, this will be better for a girl. No, I didn't even think of it. It was not until they called me and like, Megan Trainwreck, and I was like, really?

37:06That doesn't make any sense. But then I heard her on it and I was like, duh. Like, obviously, like, it makes so much more sense. And so you were a ghostwriter, I think, for three years before you became an artist. What did that entail? Man, that's just, it started pretty crazy. Kind of by accident, right? By accident. I got my first placement with Birdman for something called Bossy, and then that led me to doing some writing for Lil Wayne, which was cool. And then... Which is insane to have that immediately. Yeah, I think I was 16 years old. I was really young. But they always work in Miami. So, you know, you had your...

37:53It was only slim pickings. When you're talking about working with big people in Miami, I mean, you had Timbaland that always worked in Miami. You had Cash Money that always worked in Miami. P. Diddy in Miami. And that was pretty much it. Oh, and Pitbull and Flowrider. That was the whole sector of Miami. So you had to find a way to make it to one of those guys. And through some friends, I was able to get a session with Cassie with a producer named Seven Aurelius. And that was one of my first, like, proper sessions with a producer that was of note. everyone before then we was all trying to come up together you know so it was like no name I was no name there was no name but this was my first time meeting a producer that had hits you know he had produced massive hits for Ashanti Ja Rule so like this was my moment so I walk into this room and uh you know I think I'm gonna meet Cassie right away but no so I walk in the room and all over the room it says uh like somebody's handwriting says number one in 54 countries uh number one for 72 weeks uh biggest song in the world somebody's handwriting like just plastered all over the wall so i'm like what the is this this is weird as hell like i wonder why they got these on the wall anyway there's also a fog machine going there's also prints playing on the tv Purple Rain.

39:34I'm like, what the f***? And Prince was your guy. What did I walk into? I don't understand what this is. But I'm like, damn, I guess this is showbiz. We're here, baby. So the guy walks in. His name is Seven Aurelius. And he says, I hear you're a songwriter. I'm like, yeah, yeah. Nice to meet you, man. I'm Jason. And he was like, you got five minutes. Show me what you got. And then I was like, all right, cool. He was like, no, no, no, not in here. You go in that room over there. so I couldn't even sit in the studio. I had to like go to another room and then like I quickly wrote a song that I thought would be cool for Cassie and five minutes was up.

40:16He was like, yo. So I walked back in and he's like, all right, what you got? So I started singing this song. It was called My House. He was like, I like this. All right, all right. Go in the booth, go in the booth. And then from there, he just started to put me in different sessions. And then, like, I quickly grew in wherever his world was, you know, when that was like all the making the band stuff. And that was that was the beginning. I'm going to do it. I can just move real quick. Okay. Flip it to these shirts. Okay. Want to have a vice to do that? Yeah. You thought this was your run club era.

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42:04Oh. Oh, there you go.

42:12Thank you. Of course. You doing okay, chauffeur? Yeah, great, man. I can't believe you... I literally almost shed... I think I shed a little bit. I couldn't believe it. Like, I couldn't stop myself from getting emotional. I didn't know if you were screwing. No, I wasn't. I was like, what the is happening to me? I'm not a crier at all. Like, that's not my. Do you agree? Harry? Not a crier? Yeah. What? That was crazy. Do you think it's like, what do you, I don't even understand. I've never even told that story like that. It just never came up, you know, in my mind. And I didn't even think about that until you asked me about it.

42:57So it's s*** that you're mustering up with people. It's actually unbelievable, man. You're amazing. I wouldn't go that far. I think what's fun about having the opportunity to do the show is you just have the chance to kind of sit across from uber successful people and talk to them about how they got to where they are, highs and lows and lessons learned. and, you know, you always kind of come away from these conversations just kind of feeling, you know, motivated. That's good. But, so, you know, you were ghostwriting during this period while dreaming of becoming rightfully an artist. In what ways were folks, though, kind of dismissive of you back then?

43:47I mean, they wouldn't say s*** to my face, really. Um, but like nobody really wants to work with a nobody. I didn't necessarily have any motion going on, but I don't know. Like, I don't know why they didn't give me a shot. It's not every day that, you know, a dark skinned kid from Miami makes it as a singer. You know what I'm saying? And it's not like I was rapping, you know? It's not like I was doing hip-hop. I was a singer. And even if I was doing R &B, I mean, there's not that many, like, dark-skinned people that make it in general, you know? So I just feel like when you're dark-skinned, you kind of get looked over a lot.

44:48What?

44:52that's a great question. I don't understand it either, but I feel like it's harder, especially when you make a specific kind of music. Which was what for you? At that time, it could have been R &B, because, I mean, at that time, I was more focused on doing the R &B, on the R &B s**t, so... I mean, but if you look at the biggest singers that ever were, I mean, it's not very many dark-skinned guys that were the biggest in the world, you know? It's just not the same. You don't just get the same opportunities. What do you think Sean Kingston and his label were thinking when they turn down What You Say in replay and then the songs become massive hits?

45:53I'm sure somebody got fired. I'm sure somebody got fired. I mean, that might be some of the biggest screw-ups in the history of music. Those are two number one hits back-to-back. I don't think replay was massive because of Ayaz, and I don't think What You Say was massive because of me. I genuinely think both of those songs are amazing songs. I have other songs that I don't think that other people can sing, but What You Say could have easily been a smash hit for Sean Kingston. Do you remember how you found out they weren't interested? I was used to people not being interested in the s*** that I wrote.

46:33Meaning because rejection is just a part of it and you have to have... Rejection is every day, you know? You don't even have to tell me. Like, just don't tell me that it got placed. and I'll just go about my day, you know? And just tell me about when something good happens. It's better off that way. So that's kind of how it was. They were like, oh, are we going to make this your first single? And I was like, hell yeah. That's amazing. This is incredible. I think this song is amazing, so let's go for it. And also, I trusted JR, you know? He's somebody who had hit after hit after hit. So I was like, whatever breath says is probably lit.

47:11And he was your guy? He was my guy. You know, he produced the whole first album. And he was really still one of the first super successful people that I had worked with, you know? Because before then, I was still, I was working with Seven. And I hadn't worked with very many established producers, you know? So he still was the biggest, he was the biggest producer that I had ever worked with at that time. and when what you say takes off you're thinking what at the time so many things I was thinking that I was grateful yes but less less of being excited and more about being nervous about not being a one-hit wonder.

48:09Like, instead of, like, enjoying the number one hit, I was just in the studio, like, I need another one, you know? So, like, I just really just put my head down and was just in the trenches. I was just, like, making song after song after song after song. And what's your reflection on that now, looking back? There was no other way. You don't think you should have stopped and smelled the roses more? No. No. I think that's a trap. Why?

48:47Because complacency is so easy. It's so easy to be comfortable with success. and that's a really really big trap I think 99 % of musicians get stuck with is is being complacent and happy with where they are and that complacency is what what gets them the boot out of the industry you're only as good as your last offering and people are always waiting on the next song you know especially in the pop world you know um so for me if i didn't keep my head down like i wouldn't have i wouldn't have had uh that second number one song and i wouldn't have had uh riding solo like like the what was that

49:51I can't hear you, buddy.

49:57He's at fruit. I want fruit in a bowl, please. You mind if we pause? Yeah, we can take a break. Sorry, bro. Well, if he wants fruit in a bowl, that's a good thing. How old is he? Four. Okay. A lot better than Fruit Loops. No, definitely. we don't do for loops. We do some bad things, but we try to stay away from that. Crazy, crazy. Yeah, does he participate in the Millie meal? No, I stopped doing those. But I'm going to start back just because you brought it back today. There we go. We're excited. We came with some ideas. My brother's mad as hell that I stopped doing those. I mean... I'm sure you didn't want diabetes.

50:45The person who turned us on to the David bars, we started kind of profiling people from all walks of life. So we have like James Cameron coming up. We're going to New Zealand for an episode leading up to Avatar 3. The director, Avatar, Titanic. He's like the most successful director. I think even more. I think even more than Spielberg, right? From box office, huh? He did Terminator 2, Titanic, Avatar movies. He did Terminator as well? Terminator 2, yeah, the best actor. Then in addition to that, we did one of the top OnlyFans stars a few weeks ago. Sophie? I'm going to be into David Barr's. No, it's, I guess, most liked and most followed OnlyFans creator, somebody by the name of Bryce Adams.

51:36So she's a 60 acre place in Florida. Like they've kind of built this compound where they film stuff and live. And um, calorie count. Big time. Let me just look at her. This is for my, uh, oh s***. I got my phone. I wanted to see what she looks like. Did you watch it one time?

51:57I wanted to see what Bryce Adams looked like. She's the most like the Hollywood. And she, uh, her and her boyfriend just broke up. They were high school sweethearts. She was on time in the interview. Yeah, it's a beautiful thing. I mean, yeah, she could be my other half. She'll gross between like 13 and 16 this year off of it. And then net like four less than that. So, I mean, it's like impressive business. Unbelievable. Yeah. You good? Yeah, just so you guys get reset. I'm good. OnlyFans didn't change the game, man. I've been for men too. You have an OnlyFans? I don't, but like it changed the game in a different way.

52:44You should. Because men used to be able to go to the club and pop bottles and then like, that's all you had to do. But now women are popping their own bottles. Like what are you going to do for her? She's popping her own bottles. They're sitting at the table by themselves. A group of baddies just popping bottles. They're going to dinners. They're going to vacations by themselves. This used to be the things that men would do for them. But they don't need them anymore. So how does that change the dating game? You got to be a nice guy.

53:25I actually don't know. I don't know. You got to bring something else to the table. It can't just be the money because now, I mean, look what's happening. I mean, they're making millions and millions of dollars. So you subscribe to anybody's OnlyFans? No. That's never really been my vibe, honestly. I like the real thing. So on that note. All right. So I wanted, if I could, run through a handful of folks you've worked with. Yep. Either the fondest memory with them or what stands out the most? The first one being Stevie Wonder. Unbelievable, man. Crazy experience. Walking into Stevie's studio was crazy for me because Stevie was one of the first box sets that I ever bought.

54:23and I remember studying his music back to front from when he was a child prodigy to the legendary Stevie that we know now. So to be not only just in his presence, but to be working with him in his space was crazy because he was someone that I grew up listening to, but also the way that he worked was insane. Like he knew where everything was, by the way. He didn't need any help walking around anywhere. I'm like, wait a minute, is he? Is he actually blind? Because he knows where everything is. He was like, where's my harmonica? Oh, there it is. Like that, you know? But unbelievable experience, man.

55:06Definitely a moment that I'll never forget. Jennifer Lopez. Jennifer Lopez. Really, really sweet, man. Had an amazing time working with her. She doesn't drink. So every time I'm picking up a drink, you know, as I'm getting older, I always think about what would J-Lo do? Because look how amazing she looks and look how old she is, you know. So that'd be in the back of my mind. I'd be like, damn, J-Lo. J-Lo probably wouldn't drink this. I'm going to drink this, though, but maybe I won't have another. Will Smith. Will Smith. Funny videos you guys created. Yeah, yeah, man. Another legend that I grew up watching.

55:52That, you know, getting a chance to work alongside him. Incredible, man. Just a really inspiring guy all the time. Like sometimes, like you just want to pick out your phone and just record him when he's just having a normal conversation. Because he just spits out like jewels just, you know, on a regular basis. Lady Gaga. Lady Gaga. Incredible talent. Super gracious to me as a young artist that I was. Is there one memory from opening for her at that young age that stands out most? The fear that I had for performing for her, for her audience. Her audience, at that time, I mean, it's grown since then, but at that time when it was the Monsters and it was Bad Romance came out, it was like at the height of Lady Gaga, you know what I'm saying?

56:47And the audiences were very specific. And there was an artist that was on tour with her before me. And they booed that person every single night until he said, I can't take this no more. And you already have performance anxiety. Yeah. So it was just like, first of all, I got to do 30 minutes. I had never done 30 minutes performance in my life at that point. But yeah, Kid Cudi was just getting booed every single night on the tour, apparently. That's what I heard. I didn't see it myself. But he got off the tour, and it was like, Jason, you want to do it? Hell yeah, I want to do it, but damn. Is this going to happen to me?

57:29So that was a really, really scary moment, but it ended up being really, really incredible, and her audience was amazing. And I feel like it was a great springboard in a lot of ways, but also taught me how to treat my openers because she was just so great with it. She allowed me to be a real part of her show. She always thanked me every single night on stage to her audience. You know, it just taught me the decor that you should have when you have somebody supporting your tour. What about the Taylor Swift meet and greet? Man, Taylor is a monster. she is she's unbelievable she inspired me in such a different kind of way because you can see people perform you can see people sing well you can like those things are are easy to be inspired by right but I've never been inspired by how somebody treats their fans like she is just a different human being she the way she does her meet and greet um was so different.

58:41She would literally go from table to table to table and speak to every table as if that was her table. And I was like, damn, like they're really getting like real personal time with her. And this was before her show. I was like, then she gonna go and do a three hour show after this? This is crazy. But it really inspired me to take my meet and greet serious and to know that this is one time that people get to meet you. That one moment that you get with them is the moment that they'll have of you for the rest of their lives. So it's really important. You mentioned Diddy earlier. You started working with him, you know, when you were a teenager.

59:28What did those interactions entail? Nobody treated Diddy like he was a human being. like everybody would all be in a room talking and uh uh making music everything was fine when he walked in the room everybody just like turned into to like to mute the zombies everybody was just like afraid um at the time so this was the making the band times um i don't know if you've seen that show but sure it was like mtv back in the day exactly yes mtv was at its height yeah but But yeah, when he would walk in the room, it was just like a whole different vibe. It was like, did he just walk in, you know? And that's pretty much my experience with him.

1:00:13So like I didn't really have very much one-on-one experience with Diddy at all. I was going to say, what do you think of all the recent stuff? I mean, I have no perspective. I don't know. I don't know. I've never seen nothing crazy myself. January of 2012, you fracture your C2 vertebrae. What are you thinking at the time? I didn't know whether I was going to be able to walk again. At that moment, when it happened, I just didn't know how bad I messed myself up. I know I messed myself up because I never felt anything quite like that. What happened? So I was preparing for my tour at that time, and I wanted to do these back tucks back to back to back.

1:01:10So we were conditioning, but we were conditioning on concrete as opposed to on mats. And I slipped during a back tuck, and I bailed. And you're never supposed to bail during a back tuck. If you slip, you're still supposed to try to make it over as best as you can. But if you stop in the middle, then you come straight down. And that's what happened to me. And yeah, I literally didn't know how bad it was in that moment. I heard a crack, but I didn't necessarily feel the pain. And I feel like my body went into some sort of shock or something. Because even when I get a paper cut, the s*** hurts, right?

1:01:55so like why in that moment it's not the worst pain that i've ever felt you know i think it's remarkable how the human body can like strip certain things from you like it probably was too unbearable at that that moment that the body was just like oh shock so you don't really feel it so it was really just like oh like fear like what what did i do because i heard the crack So it was a crazy, crazy situation where now I have to get up and then tell my mom that I messed myself up. And she was outside waiting for me in the car. But I didn't want to tell her how bad I messed myself up. But I was like, Mom, we should probably just go to the hospital just to check it out, just to be safe.

1:02:41I hurt my neck a little bit. But every single bump, every single turn felt like the worst pain imaginable. It was the toughest pain that I've ever felt in my life, like by far. And then, yeah, man, and I found that I broke my C2 vertebrae, and I had to cancel my tour, and I was out for seven months, so I didn't really know what was going to happen to my career. What did the doctors tell you when you got to the hospital? He said, you got a hangman's break, and it's the same break that happens when someone breaks their neck, when someone is hung. and he said, you're going to be out for quite a while.

1:03:23And I was like, what's quite a while? Because the tour was about to happen. And he was like, anywhere from seven months to 10 months. And I was like, what the f***?

1:03:37And again, I'm not a crier, but at that moment, yeah, it came down. I was like, damn. Like I had been preparing for this tour. It was my biggest tour yet at that time. And yeah, it was just a heart-wrenching moment. Just crazy. How do you think the experience impacted you? It impacted me really positively. At that time, instead of feeling sorry for myself, I fell into routine. And I found the routine that... It helped me forget about everything. So I would wake up at the same time every day. I worked out at the same time every day. By workout, I mean just walk on the treadmill. And then I would make music for a specific time.

1:04:25And every single day I did the exact same thing. And at that time is when I wrote my most famous album ever. Six platinum songs off of one album. which I think only two other people has ever done. What was it about that time that you think allowed you to do that? Routine. Being able to have focused energy is so much better than having a fragmented mind. When you're fragmented, you're thinking about so many other things. You're like, how do I do this? How do I do this? How do I do this? Okay, let me make a song in between. How do I do this? how do I do it's so much harder than to just be focused on music you know like I would work out eat music workout eat music you know and uh how good are you at being able to do that it's really tough now and would you say the most success you've had at doing that was during that time when the recovery every time that I've done that has been monumental it's not just music though because during the pandemic, I just focused on social media, and I became the biggest person on social media during the pandemic.

1:05:45And I went from having almost no followers to having 250 million followers. So I want to ask you about that, but preceding that period, I want to talk about Warner's. Why leave Warner Music Group? I didn't like them. They didn't like me. It was a terrible situation. And what does that mean? They didn't like you, you didn't like them?

1:06:09They weren't liking my material. They were trying to make me do urban music. I'm like, what the f*** do you mean? I sold 200 million records doing pop music. Why would I start doing urban music? For what reason? I outsold all the urban artists. Why would I do that? And the executives at that time were urban-leaning executives. So that's the music that they were into. too. And I also think that when you're fresh into a building, you need to make your mark in some way. So like you need to either come in and like alter this that's popping. And then you can say that you're a genius for that. Or you need to sign new that pops off so that you can say that you did that.

1:06:55But either way, you need to have done something like when you first come in there. and it was regime after regime after regime. Different regimes were coming in every year and a half. Like I went through like six different regimes in my time. And by the time I was doing my fourth album, you know, I was just exhausted. I was just like, this is crazy. Now I got to meet new people. They want me to do urban music. I'm not doing that. Y 'all don't like my songs. I don't like y 'all. So like, let me go. Was there one conversation that stands out most where both sides were very direct with each other?

1:07:34No, not necessarily. I mean, it's really just like roundabout things, like trying to get like budgets for certain things. You know, it was an argument. I'm doing all the heavy lifting myself. You can tell when somebody's not in it and where their attention is going. and the crazy part about it is I was one of the only successful super successful artists on that label for a decade I was the guy worldwide for 10 years I was the guy everybody's salaried in that whole building was kind of dependent on me and all the legacy stuff that they had obviously they had legacy stuff that still sold but like the current person that was keeping the lights on was me i'm talking about a label that had very very small market share we know it's we know it has warner brothers records but warner brothers and his hay was doing uh right before me it was all rock and then when rock went to i was the only i was the only option you know i'm said It was me and Michael Buble.

1:08:52That was it, right? And to go from that to have a new regime be like, ah, we're not really feeling this vibe. You should try working with this producer. I'm like, bruh, these guys do urban music. I don't want to do that. That's not really my vibe. So it was just like a cantankerous situation that I needed to get out of. and I was like, by any means necessary, I'm going to get out of this deal. So either you guys let me out or it's going to be a real problem with the world. I'm going to let the world know that you guys are keeping me against my will. What did they say? They were like, you have to pay this amount to go free.

1:09:36I was like, all right, I'll pay the amount. So I paid the amount and then I think that the world is going to be my oyster and that everybody's going to receive me with open arms because I'm Jason Derulo. Didn't work out that way. Not even close. So I went to all of these different labels and they were like, ah, no, it's too expensive for us. Ah, that's not really what we're looking for. I'm like,

1:10:02f*** you mean? Like, what are we talking about here? Like, I'm the guy that sold 250 million records. It's me. I was like, okay. So I had to take a deep breath and like really figure it out. I think in most cases, the easy thing to do is to feel sorry for yourself. But instead, instead of feeling attacked, I always go into what's the next move mode. Okay, before we get to that though, correct me if I'm wrong, there was a point during the dispute with Warners where you just thought about kind of giving up on the career. I did. Take me to that moment and what you're thinking about. Yeah, because I was like, I did a lot in my career.

1:10:53I mean, there's not very many artists in the history of artists that have done what I've done. I traveled the world. I've seen every country a million times and I've impacted a lot of lives. And I was like, maybe this is the end of my story. Maybe I should focus on living now. I've spent so much time not living, so maybe I should just focus on living. Depressed? I wouldn't say depressed, necessarily. It was a coming to terms with maybe a different lifestyle,

1:11:35which could be difficult in some ways, but also relieving in some ways. But then I decided against that. I pulled this quote from Variety that I want to read to you. At the end of 2019, singer Jason Derulo's career was at a low ebb. While the singer had enjoyed a string of multi-platinum and singles and teen choice awards in the early 2010s, he hadn't had a major hit in several years, and an attempt at branching into acting in the epic star-studded flop Cats hadn't really worked out. He was a 30-year-old former pop star who just split from Warner Brothers, the only record company he'd ever called home.

1:12:19Then the pandemic hit. What are you thinking then? The pandemic hit. I see my nieces and nephews on this app. And I'm like, damn, they're like really obsessed with this app. Like they're all over this. Like they want to be on it all the time, all day. Every time I see them, they're like on this app. and they're lip syncing and they're doing dances. I'm like, this is weird. How is this social media? It was called Musical.ly at the time. So I tried it out. I ended up doing a campaign on there for one of my songs, it was called Get Ugly. And Musical.ly said that they would shoot it out to every single person on the app.

1:13:06And I was like, oh, cool, cool. So I gained like a couple of followers. So I had like 4 million followers over like the course of like two years, which was kind of crazy because I'm somebody that never had followers really. But I was the only singer on the app. I was the only celebrity on the app. It was called Musical.ly at the time.

1:13:32So I kind of go away from it for a while. but then the pandemic hit and I was like, I'm going to try that app again. Now the app is called TikTok. And when I start to dive in, uh, I have so much time. I'm like, I need to set some parameters for myself. Cause whenever I, whenever I lock in and I create a routine is when I am able to figure it out, really so I created a routine in a parameters where I was gonna post six times every day and in posting six times a day I was going to figure out how to social media I didn't know how to social media my biggest problem was my disconnect to the audience people didn't know that all the hits were mine so I I have all of these hit songs, 22 platinum songs I have, 22.

1:14:36It's crazy, right? But nobody can connect them to me. So if you hear the song, you know the song for sure, right, you can't escape the songs. But you don't know that it's me on a lot of these songs, right? And if I could figure out social media, maybe I could figure out how to connect the dots for my career. So I decided I was going to post six times a day. Six times a day is a crazy amount. Especially when you weren't posting at all before then. How many ideas can you have? So what it did was it allowed me to start posting things that I didn't want to post because it was non-negotiable. I had to post six times no matter what.

1:15:24So now I was posting anything. And that exercise allowed me to let my hair down, so to speak. It was not like so much thought had to go into every post and it allowed me to be myself. It allowed me to be silly. It allowed me to do other things. Now at the time, that app was just a dance app and lip syncing. But this exercise that I was doing allowed me to do whatever I wanted on the app. I had to. Otherwise, I wouldn't be getting my six posts. But it caught TikTok's attention because they wanted the app to be a totally different app. So they were like, this is perfect for us. Can you continue doing this?

1:16:12We'll pay you a stipend for being a pioneer because we love what you're doing. So I continued to do it. and the app started to grow, and then people started to post different kinds of things. You know, it was not just a dance app. But for the longest time, people were looking at me like, why is this guy on this kid's app? Like, this is ridiculous. Like, what is he doing? But in the back of my mind, I knew that these kids that were 15 years old, 16 years old, in five years, they were going to be 20 and 21 years old. you had a conversation at some point with tiktok's head of music uh-huh what was discussed then it was it was really just that that how they loved the fact that uh i was not focused on on doing the dances that i was that i was stepping outside the box because that's something that they've always wanted to do that's what tiktok wanted to be they wanted to be an all-encompassing app because the essence of musically the essence of tiktok at that time was lip-syncing dance app that's what it was and i think at one point you're getting a billion views a month the impact it had on your career was what um it allowed people to know me you know a lot of people uh in that they knew who my dog was they knew what my house looked like they knew what my pool looked like it was it was a total kind of invite to my life, which in turn allowed people to connect the dots with the music.

1:17:46And so it worked. It worked out. The impact that's had on how the music industry views social media. You think what? Savage Love was the first song that utilized social media solely for the promotion of a song on TikTok. TikTok has changed the way that music is consumed. It's changed the way that it's promoted. And let's be honest, that did not exist before Savage Love. Savage Love was the first moment where someone utilized creators to blow a song up. Was there a moment you were blown away by the metrics you were producing? The reason why I... I mean, of course I was blown away, but the reason why I wasn't surprised is because of the motion that I had on the app.

1:18:50I felt like I had my finger on the pulse so well that I knew exactly what to expect for everything. I had so much research. I had so much time to understand the app and understand people, you know. So I knew that in collaborations, there was strength in collaborations. And when I put out a song and I did collaborations, it was going to make people listen to the song whether they liked it or not, you know. Like it gave visibility to a song. Whereas if we had radio, they would have to turn on the radio to hear a song. But during the pandemic, all we have is TikTok. So I needed eyeballs on my song.

1:19:43So the way that I was going to get eyeballs is I was going to post my song shamelessly on my TikTok. But I was also going to do collaborations with a lot of different creators. And then I was going to ask for favors. Hey, can you post a song? Can you post a song? Boom, boom, boom. and then the swell started instantly. It was like a crazy swell. And that was the first time that TikTok really, really blew a song up based on creators and based on the audience doing some sort of dance. Business. What are your financial goals? I definitely want to be a billionaire. I've always wanted to

1:20:31be the example for other kids that look like me from where I'm from for them to see what's possible

1:20:47also want to be able to really have an impact when it comes to lifting Haiti up. And I think that if I had billions of dollars, I could utilize both the funds and my tentacles to really uplift Haiti in a way that it needs to be uplifted. It's really my dream to have Haiti become the destination that it deserves to be. Because it's such a beautiful country and people don't know about it. I'm talking about like creating like the strip of five star hotels on the beautiful beaches that people want to go to, you know. and in turn is going to just open up so many jobs and bring so much money into the country.

1:21:49But we have all of the tools. They just need to be activated in the correct way. So that's one of my biggest dreams in general. I need more money. I don't have the kind of money that I need today. So I'm just starting to do developments. But the kind of hotel that needs to be in Haiti is not the kind of money that I have today. So I need to be in a different place financially to be able to withstand what it's going to take to build an entire strip in Haiti. How about best financial decision you ever made? the best financial decision is debatable so we can either go with the first purchase of my first studio which was eight thousand dollars altogether which my girlfriend at the time paid for the majority of I've never talked about it but this was actually strip club money that was utilized to get my first studio.

1:23:02What does strip club money mean? She was a dancer and she would bring home the money and we would put it in a shoebox underneath the bed. Until this day, whenever I get cash, I call it shoebox money from that time. But yeah, that was a really, really great decision with that$8 ,000.

1:23:29and the most money today the biggest exit that I see happening right now is Rocket Car Wash what happened there so Rocket Car Wash is you know it was a company that had started previous to me and I came in later and and put a ton of money into it and the reason why I liked it is because it was also a real estate play you know so like I didn't feel like there was that much of risk because at the end of the day I would I would own the real estate and I would be able to fall back on that you know if anything um but I didn't know that it would blow up the way that it did and uh continues to to to grow every single day um When interest rates change, Rocket Car Wash is going to be one of the biggest monsters that I could have ever imagined.

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1:25:34My first house. So I bought a house in Coconut Creek. It was my first purchase of a house. And at one point you owned like four houses, right? and

1:25:50Thought it was a beautiful home But I wanted to fix it up and like make it my own So it was a very expensive house for the area, which is already not good Then I inputted wait, but this has to be the like most expensive house in the area Definitely okay, but by far by far But you can break it down into different houses. So this is one, that's one, that's one. When you put it together, I mean, it's crazy. But I can sell that house by itself. I can sell that house by itself. And I can sell this by itself. Got it. You know what I'm saying? This would still be the most expensive house probably in the area too.

1:26:33But yes, that was my worst financial decision. I put way too much money into it. and when it was time to sell it, I couldn't sell it for what I put into it. So like I lost, you know, I lost millions of dollars. The difference between that and this is this is a lifetime project and that wasn't. That was my first home. That was a stepping stone. There's, if you look to your left, if you look to your right, if you look to the front, there's construction. shouldn't have, this is Los Angeles. This is not Coconut Creek. So there's only so many places you can build in Los Angeles. And I'm, I'm betting on Tarzana.

1:27:19And it's proving, I'm being proven to be, to be correct because the way Encino exploded, Encino exploded and Tarzana is now doing the same exact um you know gentrification what about women's volleyball man so i thought i was almost doing like i was just like doing something nice you know because after college when when women you know were looking for what to do next they had to go overseas to play volleyball so i was like, man, that's f***ed up. Like, we should have something here, you know? So we teamed up with some guys, and together we created a volleyball league.

1:28:10And it just exploded, man, like, especially in Omaha. Omaha has the record when it comes to professional volleyball, women's professional volleyball. like 16 ,000 people nights, 17 ,000 audiences. It's, it's unheard of. 17 ,000 people is a crazy thing, bro. Like for anybody, like as a performer, like, you know, that my, my shows can be 17, 20 ,000 people. I mean, you know, I mean, not to, I'm not like, you know, bragging or anything, but like comparatively it's, it's, it's crazy. like that's a really really large number um when it comes to to any sport that's what the nba is doing so you're telling me like a women's volleyball league can do the same thing it's unbelievable so um i am so glad to be a small part of what these athletes are doing they are incredible uh talents and and every time i i see a match i'm i'm blown away uh more than the last time I was there.

1:29:19Your album. Why say this is the last album? There's a lot of things that I want to do, you know? And I feel like I'm the best version of myself as a performer, as a songwriter today. And I don't want to leave not being the best version of me. I just put my tour out for sale. It's the, it's my highest grossing tour that I've ever done. So yeah, I think this is a perfect way to end it off. It's not like going down on a low. I want to be the best version of me when I'm going out. Now, your brother told me he thinks this is going to be like a Floyd Mayweather thing where he retires, then comes back.

1:30:04I don't think that, man. I have so many other things that I want to do, so many other things that are in development that are working in amazing ways. I'm not a one-trick pony, and I have so much up my sleeve. that people aren't aware of as of yet. So, like... Like, what I'm doing in business, I think, is incredible. Even though I haven't had a taste of any of that yet. I haven't pulled anything yet. I haven't sold anything yet. But, like, when those things happen, like, I'm going to be a totally different human being, almost. You know, I'm like... What do you mean? I'll just have a way different level of power.

1:30:46Freedom. because there's nothing that I can't do at that point. When I talked about Haiti earlier, right? Like my hands are tied. Like there's not very much that I can do today. But tomorrow, like if I have the power to purchase five star hotels, plural, I'm a different monster. You know, I'm a totally, totally different person. That's when I start doing business with governments, and it's a totally different play. And you see yourself, though, still creating music, just not releasing it? Yeah, I don't think I can ever stop creating music because I'm obsessed. I love it. It's so much fun for me.

1:31:36But, yeah, just not releasing it. I'll probably just give it to other artists and stuff like that. The plan for the tour would be what? in terms of? Just kind of your vision for it. Oh, man, I'm, you know, pulling out all the stops. State-of-the-art stage design. It's going to be unlike anything people have ever seen. I'm really excited. We're going into rehearsals starting about 45 days from now. And it's going to be pretty crazy. It's going to be pretty crazy. I'm actually going to start posting what we did for my last tour because everybody didn't get a chance to see that last tour, but it was really unbelievable.

1:32:23I want to talk to you about working with family. Pros and cons of doing that. Pros, being able to spend time with the family, you know, and be close to the people that you're closest to. uh winning together uh being rich by yourself is not great but uplifting the people that are around you I think is the best feeling um my favorite moments aren't me buying anything my favorite moments have never been like oh that watch that I bought me when I bought that watch remember when I bought that car those are never my favorite moments my favorite moments are either in the trenches in work or watching somebody else break a barrier and become more successful because of something that I helped with, you know?

1:33:18So it's really my model. I have a model of service, you know, and the people around me, I want to build them up to be the best versions of themselves. And the fact that those people happen to be my family members, makes it that much more amazing. But you have said before, more money, more problems. Definitely. Family relationships have broken and friendships have been lost. Elaborate on that, if you don't mind. Yeah, the hard part about it is, like, when it doesn't work out. It's always amazing when it works out. But, like, if you hire family members and it doesn't work out, like,

1:33:57relationships are lost. the nest just it's just stupid right like if we never worked together in the first place we we would still have a relationship you know um so that's the really tough part because you're trying to uh bring people in and try to do what's best for them and and like i said uplift them but like you can only bring somebody so far right and if they decide not to do the work or can't do the job you know at the highest level it's not really worth it you know what about your longtime manager he'd been with you since you were a kid explain how it kind of ended over tiktok um uh not exactly it didn't end uh because of tiktok but i reached to a point where i felt like i was doing a lot of the heavy lifting myself and there was one day that really hit me hard where I was just like stressed out I hadn't seen my son in weeks and I called him and I was like yo and I just you know I just wanted to like like talk at that second I just didn't necessarily need anything and he was like oh, I'm at my son's game.

1:35:21I'll call you back later. I'm getting chills just thinking about it. But that moment hit me so crazy because here I was in the trenches and I was working and he was at his son's game. I wanted to be with my son too. So I'm doing 100 % of the work. You're not doing 20 % of the work and you're getting 20 % of the profit from what I'm doing. today, what I did yesterday, the day before, you're not here. Up to that point, he had been a great mentor to me, the person that taught me the majority of what I know about the business, but also about being a man. He was a very, very integral part of my upbringing as a man in general, not just as an artist.

1:36:14But at that point, it didn't seem fair to me. so I went to him with a proposition you know to just change the format of what it was because it didn't feel fair the way it was How did you address that with him and what did he say? I just plain out told him like it took me like weeks to figure out what words I was going to actually say you know because he would be the person that I would talk to about finding the words to say to somebody, like in this manner, right? But I didn't have him to talk about it to. So I finally, you know, mustered up the energy to be like, yo, like I'm not really feeling how the current structure is.

1:37:04But I want to figure out a system where I feel better.

1:37:14So if you bring something in, I'll give you more. But if you're not bringing things in, I have to give you less. And he didn't want to take that deal. So I knew at that moment that this relationship was not going to work because either he didn't feel like he could bring things in, which was crazy, or he was just not willing to do the work. So I was just like, I think we've reached a point. It's just a crossroads that you don't want to take this deal and I'm not comfortable with the current situation. So that's when we had to part ways. How did he handle that?

1:38:07I wish he handled it differently. Um, because it felt like, it felt like it was like the end of all, right? Like I, like I kind of like, I tried to see if the relationship would like still, you know, continue afterwards. because, I mean, you know, like the guy like helped raise me. I was a child, you know, when we met. You know, I was 12 years old. I was like, I was a kid, you know. He'd been my manager since I was 12 years old. So I wanted to see like if he would still be around, if he would like still hit me up and it was nothing. It was crickets. And I was like, okay, I'm comfortable with that.

1:38:59I understand. Sometimes this is what I was talking about. Because at that point, he was a family to me, right? So this wouldn't have been the first family member that I don't talk to anymore. But yeah, it's just the nature of the game. That's not to say you guys couldn't ever reconnect. For sure. And maybe it's my fault. Maybe I should be the bigger person. What would be involved with you being the bigger person? Like me just hitting him up.

1:39:39Yeah, I guess I could. Have you thought about that? I think about it from time to time. You've said before your relationships suffer because of your work. How so? Yeah, because there's a lot of women that feel like they want to be with somebody like me until they actually are with somebody like me. You know what I'm saying? because you think that you, like all of the amazing things that come with it, like my lifestyle, where I live, how I fly, where I go, who I am, what I've done, like all that stuff seems top tier. And it is, of course. But it also comes with sacrifice. This stuff is not here because I've slept eight hours every night for the last 16 years.

1:40:46This stuff is here because I have worked my ass off in a different kind of way. And this kind of success does not come easy to somebody like me. of course there's anomalies where you know there's some crypto bros that that are super rich and then living the life you know from not doing that much they just you know we're at the right place right time right idea exception though as opposed to the norm but that's not normal that's not the you know so being with somebody like me I'm up late at night I'm I'm in the studio I'm having meetings I'm doing every single thing myself I'm choreographing I'm shooting videos I'm directing videos I'm doing social media posts I'm doing brand posts I'm building brands I'm building companies I'm building buildings I'm doing a million things at once and that just comes with the price the price is time and I also have a son you know so uh that's just more time that's taken away so it seems like like the the the greatest life until you have to sacrifice the time with me you know what I'm saying you said still today at least nine out of ten times you'll choose work first.

1:42:19Why still today? Work is a faithful bitch. I can't use it. My work is not going to break up with me. My work is going to be there no matter what. I've spent my entire life building this thing. You know, it's my firstborn, so to speak. You know, but you said you don't focus on family enough Yeah, family is different. I mean I thought you were talking about like a woman either or yeah. Oh, yeah No, I I choose my son

1:42:58I can I can choose my son more more than I do for sure But I generally choose my son before most things. And it's really about scheduling it correctly. You know, I just try to schedule things where it makes sense for him and my life at the same time. And a lot of things we can do together, which is great. But I think what I meant was holistically, it's not just my son, right? I have a mother who cares about me. I have a father who cares about me. I have a sister. I have a brother. My brother travels with me, so not him. But I have cousins. I have aunts. I have uncles. These people are the people that have always been in my corner since I was a kid, but I don't get to see them very often.

1:43:58That's what really, really suffers. How did you find out you were having a child and what was your initial reaction? Man, pandemic, man. Pandemic was crazy. I fell in love really quickly. Everything happened really fast because we were all in one home, right? It was a... It kind of sped everything up. Whereas you go through a dating period, you decide you're gonna move in after you've been with somebody for years. No, it was the pandemic. Like, she was the person that I was seeing.

1:44:47And were we gonna pandemic separately? Or like, we might as well just coexist. All right, cool, yeah. It just made everything go super, super fast. It was a great situation. We shot a lot of content together. And then we had conversations about having kids. You know, I'm not like, I'm not the youngest guy. You know what I'm saying? How old are you? 37. Okay. So, you know, it's just like, I was like, yeah, I want to have a kid. And she felt the same way. so it was like a like a slight conversation you know that we would have and then um yeah then one thing kind of led to another man it's like sped things into like full gear pandemic you know um but it was it was uh it was an amazing time I look back at that time like it It was just like a magical time because, for one, I never spent that much time at home since I was a kid.

1:45:58But she got to meet the person at home. The version of me that was at home was not the version of me that was my norm. The normal version of me is on the road all the time. The normal version of me is working all the time. and she didn't know that side yet. We met right before the pandemic. And so what happened when she got exposure to that side? It's hard to understand. It's hard to comprehend the amount of work that goes into doing what I do. It almost seems like I'm lying because it's not comprehensible to the average person about somebody working 20 hours in a day. This doesn't make any sense.

1:46:54But to me, that's the life that I've always lived, you know? And I try to explain to her, like, the version that you knew, that's not how my life has been. That's not what got me here. That's not what bought this house. but yes it's hard it's hard for someone to let that soak you think there's any chance you guys get back together I mean the crazy things have happened you know so I would never say I would never say never to anything but I don't I don't think that it's likely you and your childhood sweetheart who I think you did it all throughout high school you thought you were gonna marry her, right?

1:47:38Back in the day? Man, I thought I was gonna marry a lot of girls. Really? Yeah, I thought I, I, there's never in a million years that I think I was gonna be 37 single. And you think that's why? Because of work?

1:47:55No, I've seen too much too. Okay. I've seen too much in my life. Okay, and that means what? I'm tainted.

1:48:07You know, like, I mean, you can imagine the things that I've seen. Married women, women leaving their boyfriends on the spot, like, leaving their boyfriend in the club. Like, I mean, everything under the sun that you can imagine, I'm giving you the super G version. Why do we want the G version? because I don't want this to be the headline. How do you view monogamy? Today, I don't think it's for me today. And there was a point where I thought that it was. But I just think it's important to just be honest, right? Like, I don't think there's any issues as long as the people that you're dealing with understand where your mind is at and what you want, right?

1:49:06I think there is a problem when there's lies and there's false hopes. But today I'm really not looking for a monogamous relationship. Now has that been the source of challenges in past relationships you've been in? let's just say there's been a lot of embellishments to the stories that have been told about me but it's not fair for it's not really fair for men because you can't really come out and be like no this didn't happen like i mean it's just like this it seems out of out of it seems distasteful, you know, to combat stories that have been told about me. Like, it seems like there's no winning.

1:50:01You know, because I could go and, like, talk about things and, like, debunk them or, like, just, like, tell my side. Although you've played into the story sometimes, too, I have in my note cards. Please, give me the... How does a five-way work? I mean, so you've put some of this stuff out there. No, I mean, but that's not like... That's just so obvious that that's my life. But not in a relationship, you know, is my point. Like, unless somebody already knows about that, that's, you know, what I'm doing. That's what I'm speaking of. Like, in a relationship, you know, unless that person knows, that's not really happening.

1:50:50But of course, I've had more than that. How would you view marriage working? For me? Uh-huh. That person would have to bring value to my life in terms of some sort of peace. But also be at peace with not being in a monogamous relationship. Today, that's how I feel because I don't want to be in a relationship today. But I think there's a chance, of course, that I could get married and be monogamous, of course.

1:51:29But that person would have to bring so much value to my life, you know, and vice versa. That person needs to be my other half. that person needs to be like the person that completes me, that makes me better, the person that picks me up when I'm down, the person that I can talk to, a best friend as well as a partner, you know, because my life needs to be better with that person. You know what I'm saying?

1:52:04I've had situations where I felt like it could be that and then it wasn't, you know? So maybe I just didn't find my person yet. There was a lawsuit not too long ago by an artist that was hired to your label that was dismissed. Twice. What did you learn going through that? Never work with women. Oh, come on. There's truth in every joke. But it's a sad truth. Like, I will never be alone in a room with a woman that I work with. like ever, ever again.

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1:53:32That case was dismissed twice in two different states. And there's hardly no mention of it online. When that case was brought up, it was on every single blog, every single front page. and I lost so many brand deals, relationships off of a story that was not even slightly believable. She said I sacrificed a goat in a sexual ritual. All people read was the headline, right? And that's all it takes to lose everything. That's a crazy concept. I lost millions of dollars off of an arbitrary story that some woman told. Like a crazy, crazy story that someone had been told. So, with that being said, how can I be comfortable being in a room with a woman that I work with and not feel like she can just say whatever she wants?

1:54:49It's like, it's not worth it to me. So anytime that there's a woman present that I work with, there will be somebody else present. I need some sort of witness or cameras or some shit. When you're in that and losing millions of dollars in brand deals, how are you figuring out how to navigate that? Man, it's really less about the money. Like, fuck the money, man. Like I have one name that I worked so hard to stay clean and stay clean cut. And then like somebody can just say, like you can just say anything. That's the world we live in. You can just say anything and people take it as gospel. Why was it that those same blogs, those same pages, those like, why didn't they post a dismissal at least?

1:55:46wouldn't that be fair if you posted well because that's not gonna get the the clicks that's so bro it's so terrible so it's it like people don't talk about the the hardships of men but it's a really really tough place to be in especially like when you have something to lose like it's a really really tough place to be in we talked about my past relationships and them saying things about me that I haven't responded to. We talked about lawsuits that I haven't really been able to respond to. I really want to respond to the blogs, if you want to be honest. I want to tell them, like, what the is wrong with y 'all?

1:56:24Like, after all of these years, like, that I've done, it's been places that I've, like, I've done interviews with and, like, I've just been so kind and, like, generous with my time, and then they post that and then you don't post a dismissal? It got dismissed twice. You didn't post the second one, you didn't post the first one. Damn. Like, none of that is crazy. It's crazy. I want to talk about diet and exercise a little bit. You alluded to this a little bit ago, but the intermittent fasting, what's the deal there?

1:57:05So, most days I try to do intermittent fasting. and is basically trying to prepare for my Fridays. So I fast on Fridays, not intermittent fast. I actually fast for 24 hours every single Friday in my life. And why? It's a sacrifice for God. So as a kid, we grew up and we would abstain from meat on Fridays. I was really called to up it up a notch. Like I was feeling like God wanted me me to do more, not just for myself, but for the people around me and for anyone that I could tell. Fasting has changed my life in so many different ways. When I talk about the mental clarity, the focus,

1:58:05the amount that I'm able to get done without putting so much focus on food is incredible because we live our life around food. It's crazy. Like the amount of emphasis that we place on food is crazy. And it consumes our day. We're thinking about what we're having for breakfast. We go have breakfast, and then we're thinking about what we're going to have for lunch, then we go have lunch, we might do a social thing at lunch, and it's like a whole thing. Dinner is the same thing. It's like a whole social moment. If you take all of those meals out on a Friday, how much time opens up is crazy. But also it allowed me to place less of emphasis on food throughout my week.

1:58:48What's this thing I heard about you eating the same thing constantly for very long periods of time? I think I'm just like that. I have, like, an obsessive personality. And, like, what could it be? I'm just, like, a really simple guy. So, like, if I go to a restaurant and I like something, I'm going to order that same shit every single time, even though I never ordered anything else. I just order the same. I don't know. It's kind of weird, right? I think it's weird, too. What do you eat in a typical day? I'm on my longevity kick right now, and I'm really excited about my farm. So being at home, like, it's been incredible because I'm just eating from the farm and, like, eating outside protein.

1:59:28So, like, yesterday, for instance, I brought out the brown cutting board that you've seen on TikTok. And then I cut either myself or somebody else. We'll cut the tomatoes fresh from the garden and cucumbers and squash and then put salt, olive oil, jalapeno. Good to go. So I have that. I had that two times yesterday. And then I had a salad yesterday. When I end talking about Kobe.

2:00:04so first you've alluded to though the the fact that there was a period of time in your life where you thought you might give this basketball thing a shot you won a championship in high school yeah and you were debating for I think a couple years giving it your full attention but ultimately decided otherwise why right um a couple reasons reasons. Basketball came harder to me than music did. Even though I was able to build myself up to the point that I was at, I didn't always excel at it. I started music when I was four, so I was always ahead of everybody. In basketball, I was behind, and then I caught up so it came harder um but i went to a very big basketball school in america very very big basketball school and then it ranks in the top 20 um every year um and we won a championship together and um i was the point guard and and i've always loved basketball i still love basketball you know um but i had to make a decision i decided to go with the the road that i felt like was an easier road because it came easier to me and I do believe in my heart of hearts that if I chose basketball I would have been at least as successful as a basketball player that I was as a musician really yeah but I thought you're like highest scoring point total in high school is like 14 points or something like that.

2:01:45Yeah, but that didn't matter because it's not about what that I was still so young by the way playing varsity by the way at the top 20 school in in America. With anything it's about the time and energy that you put into it. Like I told you earlier I have an obsessive personality so anything that I do I'm going to be the best at it. Like, it doesn't matter what it is. Like, it literally doesn't matter what it is. Because I'm just going to put more time than everybody else. So like, for instance, like when everybody else would go to basketball practice, they would go to basketball practice, they would go home.

2:02:30Okay? I slept with my basketball. I woke up, I had a basketball in my hand. I walked to the school bus with a basketball in my hand I walked to my classes with my basketball in my hand I went to basketball practice After basketball practice, I came home and I practiced So way, way, way, way, way, way, way more hours than every other basketball player that was on my team, right? So, like, I went from not making the team to being the best person on the team, right? But then you continue to compound those hours like I would have just been a totally, a totally different player by the time it was my senior year, with my obsessive personality, there's just no way that I wasn't going to be successful.

2:03:14Unless, you know, something that was force majeure, you know, like some injury or something like that. But if it was in my control, you can't beat somebody that's working way harder than you. You just can't. for somebody who had a ton of interest in basketball, the experience in China with Kobe had to be quite a lot of fun for you. Definitely. That's the drunkest I've ever been. And how does that happen? So we went out for dinner with some of my guys, some of his guys, and competitive. He's really competitive, as am I. But my body's a little smaller than his. I was. And, yeah, so he would have a drink, and then he would, like, tap my glass on the table, like, really aggressively, like, borderline breaking my glass.

2:04:23I'm like, what the f***? So I take my shot, right? And then he goes for the next one. Taps my glass aggressively. I'm like, what the f***? Okay, I see what we're doing here. This is a competition. So now I'm locked in. This is Kobe. I'm a musician, bro. Like, it's in the job title to drink. You're a basketball player, okay? Like, you live the healthy lifestyle. You got to be in bed at a certain time. Like, there's no way you're about to beat me in drinking. What are you guys drinking? I think it was bourbon. One ice cube and bourbon. And the waitress knew to keep topping it up, topping it up. Anyway, he keeps tapping my glass.

2:05:20So now I know we're in competition. We're full on. Everybody's around. We're laughing, having a good time. But in the midst, there's a full on competition. I want to show him what being a rock star is. And I'm telling him this. I'm like, you can't drink with me. Like, I do this for a living. You know what I'm saying? Meanwhile, we just talked about your longevity diet. I've learned a lot since then. I was a young man.

2:05:52So anyway, so after drinking, like, I'm talking about something in the 20s. It was something crazy, more than I've ever drank in my life. In the 20s in terms of drinks? Yes. Bro, I was delirious. He was fine. He was good. I stopped remembering every conversation that he was having. He was having conversations with my manager. I don't remember it at all. All I remember is being in the car. I had a couple of my dancers with me. And it was like two or three girls. and we stopped like every four minutes for me to throw up on the side of the road. I couldn't even make it home without throwing up every four minutes.

2:06:40That's the drunkest I have ever been in my life. But yeah, he won. But by far. Now he was not even close. Landslide. Thank you for doing this. Thank you, brother.

2:06:56Fantastic, man. Pretty painless, right? Yeah, beautiful, brother. anything I did not ask that you would have liked me to definitely not you dug in deep yeah you had some incredible shit in there for sure thanks for listening to this week's podcast don't forget to leave a rating and review and for more in-depth interviews visit GrahamBenzinger.com

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