Jon Hamm: Overcoming Loss to Become Hollywood’s Leading Man

30:06And I had had, you know, I wasn't working, but I was auditioning, like a million auditions. And I kept getting called back. Like, the idea of somebody saying, like, oh, I like you. Might not be for this thing, but, you know, there's going to be another thing. And so I had that kind of feedback from casting directors and producers and directors and people like that. And I was like, okay. And I auditioned for like a lot of cool stuff, like Steven Spielberg. What do you remember from meeting with him? Well, I didn't meet him. I met the woman who directed the film that he was producing, which was called Deep Impact.

30:42And I didn't get the job. Jon Favreau did. But you have to find the positive to pull away from whatever rejection you have, or you're just going to spiral. But I was able to kind of, for whatever reason, able to kind of understand that there was positives to be taken from it. Explain how signing a contract right before the final audition ended up messing with your head. Oh, well, testing for a pilot, especially for a network pilot, is such a mind f*** because you're in a space this size with all the other people that they're considering hiring other than you. And it's kind of like a feeding friend is go, and you have to go in and do your thing.

31:31And they make you sign your contract before you go in because they basically, when they're making the decision on who to hire, they're going, this guy cost this, this guy cost this. This guy costs this. And that way they maintain all the leverage. You can't say, oh, they want me, so guess what? I'm going to charge double the rate. So it's all buttoned up before you go in there. And you think, if I get this job, I'm going to make more money than I've ever seen in my life. All my bills are going to be paid. I'm going to be able to pay my back rent. I'm going to be able to go Christmas shopping. I'm going to be able to, you know, which is the last thing you want to be thinking about before you go in and try to make people believe that you're an alien doctor.

32:10something you know I mean so but it would creep into your head oh of course it's everybody will tell you everybody will tell you that that auditioning is is it's the worst Steve I remember reading Steve Martin's book and he was like the day I was able to stop auditioning was like the greatest day of my life as a performer because it's just it's it's so unnatural and and awful and yet it's the only thing we got why did you have a hard time giving up waitering I didn't have a hard time. It was a great way to make money, especially in LA. And you meet a pretty cool, you get a cool group of people.

32:52And if you work at a nice place or a place that people are friendly and not horrible, you can have a pretty nice time. And you work nights, so you don't have to, you have your days free to go to auditions or whatever. Like it's a pretty great way to, there's a reason that most struggling actors are waiters, because it's a decent money and it's a decent schedule. So there's a great quote from a story on you describing the Mad Men character that you played and it was quote Don Draper the illegitimate child of depression era losers who through preternatural ambition intuition and a freakish twist of fate reinvents himself as a prince of Madison Avenue.

33:33What appealed to you about the role? That's a pretty a great description of a pretty great role. I hadn't seen that before. And I certainly had never read a script like that before. And I don't know. There was just a lot about it to play. You've got this guy who's on the surface, this wildly confident alpha kind of prototype. but behind the scenes it's it's it's all of you know it's all a sham um and matthew wrote an amazing pilot script and he created a world an amazing world uh for 92 episodes in the tv landscape in the early 2000s obviously we're in a completely different time now with streaming and this and that and every every iteration of of of uh television dramas being kind of exploded and reconstituted.

34:31But back then it was like there were cop shows, there were doctor shows, and there were lawyer shows. And Sopranos kind of changed it, and then Mad Men changed it, and then Breaking Bad changed it. You know, Wire changed it. But you know, that's what you had to deal with, or soap operas. Matthew Weiner, the Mad Men creator, was previously a writer on The Sopranos. The HBO passed on the show AMC, ends up getting it. I think he knew from your first audition that you were who he wanted, but you weren't the big name established actor at the time, so you had to audition time after time after time before finally getting it.

35:08After you get the part, you and Weiner go for a walk afterwards. What does he tell you about the role? Well, he told me basically, he goes, do you want to hear the backstory? And I was like, sure. And he goes into this whole thing about how he's a son of a prostitute and this and that, never knew his dad and his stepdad was awful and i was like wow like you write all this down or just like free associating like what's going on and it was uh you know we got to we got to kind of see that uh writ large as the as the series progressed the first time you were in costume in your dressing room you're looking in the mirror reciting your lines what do you see i remember going to set that day.

35:49We shot the pilot at Silver Cup Studios in Brooklyn, New York. And I remember, you know, you get set at 530 in the morning or whatever. Weirdly, there was a dead body in the parking lot. Someone had fallen out of a car off the bridge that went right over the thing and then splatted in the parking lot. So there was one of those little weird cop tricycles and a sheet and we were all like what's going on in the party like somebody died legitimately yeah but I remember thinking like you know putting all the putting all the gear on and getting going through hair and makeup and whatever and then thinking to myself well okay like you got the job now you just have to do it this is what you wanted so go do it now and the first thing we shot was a three and a half page scene with me and John Slattery and we're yammering at each other and I have to go in, take off my shirt get another shirt out, put two Alka-Seltzer in a thing, blah blah blah untie my tie, re-tie my tie and miss a button because the end of the scene is you missed a button and we do this thing the first time I do it, nail it Slattery's like holy s*** you've got a lot to do in this scene and he starts breaking my balls.

37:08I'm like, just give me the cues. I'll be all right. So, yeah, it was like, you got it. Now go do it. Didn't one of the times, though, when you were looking in the mirror reciting your lines, you said you saw your dad? I mean, that's, you know, I look like my dad. I see my dad all the time.

37:30But, yeah, you know, there's a lot of my dad and Don Draper.

37:37One of the stories I read, I think it was season three, the Draper character's on a bender driving down the street and throws his empty glass out the window. Where did that story come from? It's a true story from my life. My dad did that. I told Matt that story and he wrote it into the script. Different times. How would you use memories of him to kind of influence how you play the character? I think there's a lot of actors that do that kind of work. I'm not that guy. I don't like to mind my personal life necessarily for that stuff. I really just like to be present in the scene. And I find that when you're actively listening and you're actively present and you're...

38:31It's like tennis. you're knocking the ball back and forth across the net. And when you're with a really good actor and a really good tennis player, you play better. I don't like to go, like, beat my head against the wall for a week so I can be sad in the scene. And it's interesting you say that because others close to you have said, like, you know, the role caused you to kind of, like, dig up the soil of family stuff. Others have said that, like, deepness of the character weighed heavily on you. It's not fun to play kind of a sad person day in and day out for nine years. I mean, it's fun, but it's not, you know, it's not like doing a light comedy.

39:14But it's, yeah, I mean, it's hard to be a lead on a television show, full stop. Like, the hours are terrible. You know, you don't have much of a life. Whether playing like a happy character or sad character, because it is just a character you're playing, How does it, what's the difference you've noticed in how? I think it's mostly, it's just exhausting when you're kind of, when you're the lead of anything. You just, especially for me playing Don Draper, you're in every scene. You don't have a day off. I didn't have a day off for like three weeks at one point. Because I was doing reshoots on the town and I was shooting bridesmaids also.

39:54And so I had like, there was a 20, I worked 21 days in a row. and you're going to bed at 2 in the morning, you're waking up at 6, you're going to bed at midnight, you're waking up at 5, you get tired. It's exhausting. But the energizing part of it is when you're on stage and they call action. You mentioned your parents earlier. How often do you think of them? Propel Fitness Water. With Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar, and vitamins, Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade Electrolytes.

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41:07Often. You know, I probably wouldn't say that I sit and have like a session of thinking of my parents, but I will be reminded of them for various reasons in and out of day-to-day life. You know, I obviously miss them. Wish they were able to kind of be a part of all of this. But again, you know, I don't, that's my reality. Like, that's, I don't have that. So it's hard for me to say that where I would have been had I had that, that positive or negative. What were the situations in which you wonder what they would say to you? I don't know. I mean, I'm 47 years old. I'm sure they would have some questions about how I'm doing, how I'm feeling.

42:00I don't know. You know, I'm my mother's only son and one of three children that my father had. So I'm sure there would be a lot of questions. I have no idea what, you know. What were their ambitions for you? I think obviously like any parent, they want their kid to be happy. I think like any parent, they want their kid to be safe and successful and whatnot. There was a reason my mom signed me up for all those after-school classes, and there was a reason that she made sure I had a book in my hands at all times and made sure I did my homework and made sure that I achieved. And correct me if I'm wrong, but she was the one that saved the money for you to go to Jumper.

42:41I mean, it was her kind of nest egg that when she passed away that was sort of lequeath to me. How much do you think that money and allowing you to go there impacted your life? Immensely. Education is the most important thing in a kid's life. And I got the Cadillac version of that. She had her colon removed, two feet of, I think, cancerous intestine. Ends up passing away in her 30s. You were 10 at the time, and I believe you less remember the death and more remember the impact it had on your family. In what ways? I mean, losing a parent at a young age is, I think, the only worst thing to do is lose a child, which I was watching my grandfather and grandmother lose their child, their oldest child.

43:34You know, she's 35 years old. It's too soon. and you know it's a terrible way to die it just is and I remember being a little kid no capacity to process it and there's no such thing as you know at least I wasn't exposed to you know therapists or anybody to talk about it so I was just kind of left to my own devices and you know it's it's it's a a friend of mine lost his wife recently and he describes it's not a It's not a vacuum, it's not a void, it's a blast crater. What do you mean? It's a crater and your life just explodes and you have to kind of manage it, but there's not only the void, but there's the collateral damage of it.

44:20And again, when you're a kid, you just don't have the capacity to deal. You don't know what it's like to mourn or grieve or go through the famous sort of processes because you're a kid. You think everything lives forever. Your dad was a big shot in St. Louis, running the family business for a while. Also a big guy. I think he was like 6 '3", 300 pounds. His first wife passed away. He was left with two daughters out of that. Then his next wife, your mom, divorced him, ends up passing away, and he's left with you. How did he handle? all of that? Again, I never really got to have those kind of adult conversations, so I don't really know.

45:12But just knowing how difficult that is in a vacuum, I'm sure it was devastating for him. You said you felt he was unfulfilled in many ways. Again, what do I know? You know, I've really, I can, I can, I can postulate and kind of throw out theories and things. I'll never know. That's the thing about death. It's permanent. At the time of why was it so tough for you living with your dad and then his mom, your grandma? Well, three generations under one roof is tricky. Right.

45:59You know, I'm like an 80s kid. All I wanted to do was play Atari. And my grandma was like, what is this Atari thing? Go outside and rake the leaves or something. It was a very strange existence. Again, another reason why having the outlet of going to school, going to Burroughs, which school would start at 8 o 'clock, and we would be at school until at least 4. And if you had athletics or theater or whatever, you'd be there until 6.30. So it was just great to be out of the house and in that environment. And I heard she was a tough lady. She was, yeah, born in 1904, lived through the Depression, broke her back when she was 16, falling off a trolley or something.

46:47You know, you're just like, Jesus, like, it's, it's, I've learned throughout my life to be very, to not be judgmental about people until you really know what they've been through. And when you, when I realized, like, my grandmother's, both sides, my grandfather, been through, you deserve to, you've earned having a harder outlook on life, probably. How well do you recall watching The Field of Dreams when you were at University of Texas?

47:21You're referring to a specific story when I called my sister. Yeah. Yeah, it was a great, it was a weird, great thing. I remember watching it. I love that movie, first of all, because I love baseball.

47:36Dad was, I think he was, he wasn't dead yet. He was sick. and it was on TV, whatever, it was on network TV. And I just remember watching it and kind of really being moved by it and going to pick up the phone to call my sister, and she was on the phone. That weird thing that used to happen when people talked on landlines where sometimes you'd pick up the phone before it rang. Oh, hi. Hello? And I was like, that is weird. Like, you know, it's a very strange thing. So you're at University of Texas in Austin. Your grandma passes away while you're there. Short time after, your dad ends up passing away.

48:24And you said that that kind of changed everything, and there was this profound sense of being alone. I mean, I had friends, and I had, you know, sisters, and I had aunts and uncles, but I didn't have a mom and dad. And I give thanks to the people in my life who helped me reorient during that time, which were these really close family friends, the Simmonses, the Clarks, and the Wilsons. And they each individually met with me and sort of sat me down and said, look, you're going through a hard time. It's okay. You're going to be okay. You just got to kind of get back on your feet and get you going again.

49:05And it was profoundly helpful. And that's the time at which I got into therapy for the first time. My sister was like, you need to see somebody. What did she say that got you to finally go? Well, she's like, you're sleeping until 4 o 'clock in the afternoon. Something's not right. You need to see somebody. You're not well. and you know for me it was like I'll be fine you know it's like stiff upper lip kind of midwestern like don't worry about it I'm fine he's not fine this is not fine your friend said even when they knew you were struggling you always had the brave face well yeah I mean that's I think that's what we're kind of taught as as whatever as polite midwesterners is like don't worry about it, don't want to overshare, fine.

50:00But, you know, seeing the therapist at that time was profoundly helpful because it does what it does. It gives you another perspective on something that you can't quite figure out. And she was able to really kind of, again, reorient my kind of way of thinking. And she put me on a medication that changed my brain chemistry enough to where, okay, I'm feeling a little better. I can get up and go to work. I can get up and go to school. I can do my work on time. I can self-motivate again. I mean, sometimes that's what you need. And it's like, it's got the most interesting stigma, but people think if you break your ankle, you're not expected to just walk it off.

50:47Right. But if your brain chemistry is somehow a little tweaked, you're somehow expected to just deal with it. It's like, well, but there's a medicine that fixes it. And to go back to what you said about the three families that were so helpful, you made the point that it wasn't the therapy as much as the people in your life that didn't have to be kind but were. Yeah. I mean, it's a big reason why I take meetings with kids that come out here and say, try to tell them, give them a what's up with moving to L.A. It's a big reason why I wanted to go back and teach. It's a big reason why I try to lead with kindness.

51:30Because I'm a perfect example of what happens when you do that to somebody that you don't need to. It's easy to get, fall down, especially in this industry, it's easy to fall down some kind of narcissistic spiral where you're the most important thing in the world and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. but it's wildly helpful when you remember that you can pay it forward in many ways. You said Mad Men ending was like mourning, and you go through all the stages of grief. How did that come out in you? You know, you're losing something that you spent, in my case, the better part of a decade with. So you're going from kind of one reality to a completely different one.

52:19And it's hard, you know, it's, you know, I think probably still the one thing that I'm really known for. I've got other things that I'm very proud of in my career, but there's one that's pretty outsized. And it's a challenge, you know, you have to kind of, like I said, reorient your existence to figure out, okay, what am I going to do with my days? Like it used to be from March to August, I knew what I was doing.

52:54And then attendant with that comes, you know, do people think I'm any good in anything else? Do people want to see me doing anything else? Am I a one-trick pony? All this other stuff comes into play. And that's what you're thinking at the time. Well, you're just because you're unemployed for the first time in nine years. It sucks. It sucks being unemployed. And really, you even felt that then, even though, I mean, you're deservedly almost unemployed, just, you know, killed it at this show for however many seasons. That kind of thing never goes away. But when you're, I guess, old enough or mature enough, you can understand that that's a thought that you have and then understand that that's ridiculous and you'll be fine.

53:39To what extent did the show ending impact you more than you thought it would? And in that way, I think, really. I think it was, it's, it's a, again, and I'd never been on anything that long. Most of us hadn't. So I think, you know, you, it was, it was just surprising. And it was, it was challenging, you know, just, and, and, and then you, you're trying to navigate, you know, what other people are thinking and all this. It's just crazy. It's just a crazy time. How do you replicate the high of being TV's leading man? You don't. I think there's a reason that so few people have done it more than once.

54:28But it's also like it's an important lesson to let that be its thing. Let that be what that was. this period of time from 2006 to 2015 that was a hell of a run. And don't chase after that again. Go have another experience. Go look for something else to do. The reason I think that Mad Men was so successful was that nobody thought it would be successful. You know, you look at what's popular on TV now, and they're kind of the outliers. The things that, the sure bets that people are, oh, this is going to be amazing. people are like, I've seen it, I've seen that guy do that before. So I get a chance to work on things now that are exciting and fun and funny, and I get to work with the people who I've established relationships over the last 15 years of my career.

55:21And what was that process like for you figuring out what to do professionally? You know, I don't really know. I certainly didn't have any kind of like overarching strategy or or but really like no no again it's not really how i was that intentional yeah but it's also it's again it's just the only way i really know how to do stuff i'm not a big master planner that's not how my brain works really i'm more of just like okay well let's see where this goes see where this trail leads

55:59and again I think especially in this it's like holding on to sand you know the tighter you the tighter you grip it the less you have and I've been fortunate enough to where a lot of the people that I've worked with have really wanted to work with me again and that's really nice So I've just been taking it as it comes. How do you feel about being the name carrying a film? It's interesting. I haven't had it that many times. It certainly gives you a deep, deep understanding and respect for the people that do it all the time. Whether it's Ben Affleck or Matt Damon or George Clooney or whoever it is, Jennifer for Lauren, you know, you think like, oh man, like it can be super stressful.

56:54In what way? Well, it's interesting. It can be stressful if you let it, I guess is the right way to look at it. And the people that really think like, oh, the movie's going to succeed or fail because of you, I think most of the guys that are in that position don't think that. They're like, hey, I'm here, I'm doing my job. The movie succeeds or fails for a million different reasons. It's not just on me. And my job, whenever I've been the lead of a film, is like my job is to show up on set every day, ready to go, prepared, and give 100 % and be the best I can be. I can't control the marketing. I can't control whatever comes out the same weekend.

57:43I picked the script because I liked it. And whether that's, you know, Million Dollar Arm or Baby Driver, like, I picked those scripts because I liked them. And, you know, my job is again. Like, I just, I show up, I do my job, and it turns out people like working with me. You said you haven't had the lead that many times in films, but some of that's been by choice, too, right? I haven't been, you know, offered giant leads in many things, which is fine. I have turned down a few of them because I didn't like it. Right. And I'm allowed to do that. But yeah, and sometimes it's fun to just be the guy who walks in for two scenes and makes everybody laugh and then leaves.

58:28You know, you don't have to be on location for six months. You go in for a week and bail out. Even somebody like you who's had as much success in acting as you've now had, how challenging is it to get the parts you truly want? It's always challenging, and I think anybody will tell you that. There's always somebody else. There's always a younger, prettier, taller version of you. If you have a healthy kind of perspective on all of it and realize that it's a pretty long game, you'll be all right. I believe you've mentioned you're interested in starting to do some of these self-generating projects like Reese Witherspoon or Brad Pitt does.

59:11How do you go about doing that? At a certain point in your life, you acquire people in your circle who have different skill sets and are differently talented at things. So you'll meet a director who you really like and you think, oh man, let's go grab a camera and just shoot something weird. Or you'll meet a writer who you really like who's like, oh, I'm thinking about writing this thing and blah, blah, blah. And you go, hey, let's sit around a table and hash it out. So I think especially with someone like Reese, who's always been very kind of focused and driven. I think that, you know, it's an amazing time right now because there's so many outlets.

59:48You can get something, write it up, film it, put it on YouTube for, you know, change of a hundred dollar bill. And if somebody sees it, the right person sees it and the right people like it, you can be on HBO next year. You're just like, oh, with real crew and a real thing and a real budget. It's a good time to be kind of a content creator, horrible term, but the downside of it is that there's just a lot of noise and there's a lot of stuff out there that's, you know, ephemeral and meaningless. And the trick is to kind of distill. that's going to be the next I think focus of where media is looking is how to distill all of that into you know it used to be it was your it was your Facebook feed but now that's kind of that algorithm got a little skewed and realized that people people were taking advantage of that so now it's like what is it your Netflix queue but then you got to do Hulu also and Amazon and this and that and the other and you go, how can you keep up with it?

1:00:54Do you have plans to do some of the self-generating? I don't have any plans right now. I don't have anything in the pipeline. But just desire? Yeah, sure. It's part of it is, you know, back in the old days, controlling your own destiny as an actor was like an impossibility. You were beholden to the studios back in the old days and you were beholden to producers and directors in the 80s and 90s. And, you know, it was really challenging. And now you can. You can kind of just say, all right, well, I'm going to produce this. And part of that is just being around long enough and knowing how all that stuff works.

1:01:35Understanding, like, okay, I have a skill set that I can do. And if you have the desire to match that, then you can pretty much do it. So I know you said before you aren't interested in superhero movies. but what's this I hear that there are at least rumors that you're interested in Batman? I've had rumors about that probably since season one of Mad Men. I've never had a conversation with anybody about it, literally. And I've sat in the rooms with all these guys. Never been offered anything. I think the Internet wants what it wants. I can't control the Internet. Would you like it? Depends. On what?

1:02:11Script. What the story is. I'm a huge comic book fan. always have been. I read comic books since I was, you know, nine or younger. And I'm pretty knowledgeable about a lot of them. And I like the genre. And I like it when they're done well. I saw Black Panther. I was like, this movie's great.

1:02:38A friend of mine is a showrunner on Legion, which I just watched last night. It's great. So there's a lot of interesting things out there, but it depends on the story. You know, it all comes down to the story. But could you see playing it? Sure. I mean, sure. I'd probably fit the suit, you know. I have to work out a lot, which I don't love. But, you know, it's sure. I'm sure there's an interesting version of that being out there. And if they wanted to tap me on the shoulder and ask me to do it, why not? But I mean, you know, a lot of people have to sign off on that, obviously, not just the Internet.

1:03:23Million Dollar Arm. What attracted you to the role? I love baseball. You know that. I loved the story. I love that it was a true story. And I really liked the idea of making a movie that had a happy ending and heart and was a story that you could take your, that I could take my, you know, nieces and nephews to. And I remember when we got the chance to make that movie, I just thought like, oh, this is like a lovely story. And the fact that it's true really, really resonated. That this guy really kind of put it all on the line and he wanted to like see what he could do with bringing this part of our culture to another culture.

1:04:06I think that's a nice, it's just a nice message. and I was happy to be, it was a nice palate cleanser after playing Don Draper, play this guy who's, you know, got a little bit of the huckster in him, but has also, you know, learns a lesson that, you know, these, it's important to be, you know, a family. There was something nice about that. Describe what it was like shooting in India. It's madness. There's so many people. The first day we shot, it was like shooting on the street. It's like shooting in Times Square on New Year's Eve. It's just all people and cows and cars and noise and smells and everything.

1:04:54And you're thinking like, all right, well, we got to do this thing. So should we? Here we go. Let's go. Both feet. Let's just go. What most sticks out to you from the actual experience of filming there? It's just sensory overload. All five of your senses are just constantly overloaded. And it's, I mean, it's, once you kind of get your head around it and get used to it, which takes about a week or 10 days, it's really lovely. And again, like, I'm a big believer in just sort of like, well, this is what it is. You can't go and shoot a movie in India and expect it to be like the backlot at Warner Brothers.

1:05:40Why would you? So let's really, you know, sink into it. What were you able to do outside of filming? Nothing. I was shooting every day. I got to see like a lot of things in vans on the way to set, which was a real shame because I really got into, I feel like every night when I would get back to my hotel room, I would be on Wikipedia looking up something that I had learned that day about Hinduism or something or Zoroastrianism or, you know, the makeup of how did Mumbai I get to be Mumbai? Like what did the Dutch have to do with like this? What is the, you know, just learning. It was, there was something to learn every day.

1:06:29And that was exciting. I wish I had more time to, to have actually gone and like seen it and learned about it instead of just going from here from set to hotel to set to hotel. So what do you remember from hosting the ESPYs? It was fun. It was fun. I remember there was a joke in the monologue that was meant to be set up by a video clip, and for whatever reason the clip didn't play, and the joke actually worked better and got a big laugh, and I was like, okay, well, this will be, this is going to go okay. But it's all, you know, it's so fun to be in that room, because you get a chance to, you know, sports and Hollywood have a weird kind of overlap, but it's, professional athletes do such amazing stuff and you're just like wow like you're really doing it this is great and to be able to celebrate that's fantastic fantastic i'm just pleased that they asked me too i was like okay sure you have a favorite skit from the time hosting oh i don't i don't even remember the sketches we did when i hosted the espies but uh no it was it was just it's it was i'm there as a host i'm there as a facilitator uh and and and make sure everybody gets their awards on time What's the preparation involved for a gig like that?

1:07:48Hosting that? It's not much. I mean, you have writers that write the monologue. You're contributing, obviously, and telling them what you like and what you'd rather do or not do. But hosting is great. It's a good reminder to just remember that it's not about you. Like whatever award show you're hosting, the host, it's not, the host isn't getting any awards. It's like your job is to make sure that the actual people who deserve to be celebrated are. When it comes to film roles, what's your process involved with preparing for a role? Ideally, like by the time you're on set, you're ready to go. And you've had those conversations and you've thought about your things and you've, you so rarely get a chance to really rehearse anything.

1:08:40but you you know everyone's different you know mine is a little more internal and again like I said I just like to be really present I think that's the only thing I can really do internal in what way? just like think about it by myself I don't like to talk to people about it and what will you think about? The part, the role the this, the character, how it works, how we're going to play the scene, what we think, you know, the logistics of the work.

1:09:17And other people like to, you know, talk about it and really kind of hash it out. Okay, what do you think? Can I do? What do you? I don't mind doing that. I don't mind being the other person. I just don't prefer doing that. What's a character you played recently, and what was that kind of internal process you had of kind of working through how you're going to play it. Well, I had to go do a film recently where we were shooting in Morocco. You're already kind of a little left of center because you're in a foreign country, and they're speaking three languages on set, and you're not really sure who to ask and how to ask and what the custom is or whatever.

1:09:57and so you know again by that point the director and I had had tons of conversations and everybody was on the same page but you just gotta be prepared prepared to like face what the day is going to be and that means you gotta be you know you gotta know your lines and you gotta I had to speak Arabic in that movie which is not easy and just constantly, constantly going over it and going over it and going over it. And then trying to make it disappear, you know, trying to make it seem as natural as possible. It's like learning to dribble with your left hand. You know, you don't get good at it by thinking about doing it.

1:10:39Do it. Some actors are born with a preternatural ability to just walk right into something and be awesome. I think most actors, it takes time to get good. What makes you realize when you're playing a role well? It's a good question.

1:11:06I feel like there's something that just settles, where you just, again, it just feels like it's not happening. It feels like you're not acting. You're just there and you're just hyper present and it's fun. It becomes fun. In the remaining moments, comedy. What do you like about comedy? I've liked it since as early as I can remember. I just loved listening to comedy records and the 80s comedy cassette tapes. and kind of digging out, finding little weird moments. Saturday Night Live was a big influence in my life because it was live television. It was before the era of the VCR. If you didn't see it, you missed it.

1:12:03And it was something that, it was vital. There was something new and exciting and cool about it, which is the best part of comedy. It's like somebody coming at something from a place that you haven't thought of. making you laugh about it. Or just think about it. I mean, a lot of comics are, you know, the main point is to get a laugh, but it's also to kind of make you think, you know, think. That's what I loved about it. That's why the guys that I grew up on, whether it's George Carlin, you know, Carlin's stuff was wildly heady. But just, yeah. Monty Python, like all the SNL guys. And then as I kind of moved through my existence and moved out here, you know, the scene was Sarah Silverman and Patton Oswalt and Paul F.

1:13:02Tompkins and Zach Galifianakis and Tenacious D. And all these guys that were really kind of blowing up at the same time. and all just wildly smart and funny, which is something I respected. So the first time you were offered to host Saturday Night Live, what was it like turning it down? Yeah, I couldn't do it. I had planned a trip that I couldn't unplanned. How do you handle that one? I said to my agent at the time, I was like, you have to be very delicate with this and say that I'm not turning it down because I don't want to do it. I wildly want to do it, but I can't. I don't know how you make that argument, but please do.

1:13:50And effectively, they did. And it was nice because obviously Mad Men is very cyclical and there's another opportunity. But I got to host it three times in two years. I mean, that's, and it's so fun. Oh, it's so fun. I was just there a little bit ago. I saw my friend Bill Hader host. It was nice. It was really nice. That first experience, though, hosting, describe what you remember. It's a roller coaster. What I realized was it's a roller coaster. And it's a roller coaster that's pretty well designed. It's not going to fly off the tracks unless you do something ridiculous to make it fly off the tracks.

1:14:36And so your job is to hang on, hold on, and enjoy the ride. And it's thrilling. Your stomach drops out, and you go upside down, and you go around the corner, and your hair falls. It's crazy fun. But I realized that literally like five seconds before they pushed me through the door. I was like, oh, right, this is a roller coaster. Just ride the roller coaster, man, and enjoy it. Cue cards are right there. They push you and pull you and stick you on your mark. The rest of it is just enjoy it. How many Saturday Night Live sketches can you recite verbatim? Probably not as many as I used to, but I do have a pretty good working knowledge of the history of that show.

1:15:20And there's a really cool thing that you can do when you're there. They have like a database, basically, an in-house network and computer that you can pull up any sketch from anything from the past 40 years, basically. They have it all digitized somehow. And I think it's mostly so they can make sure they're not cannibalizing their own things. They're like, we did that in 1984. But also it's like to see, you know, I think how to do things, who did what. Would it be fun to kind of revisit, you know, things like that. It's pretty cool. What do you think Lorne Michaels likes about you? Well, Lorne is famously kind of inscrutable.

1:16:02So I don't know. But you guys are friends. I wouldn't hazard a guess. Yes, we're friendly. Yeah, absolutely. I do hear from him, you know, if he's visiting in town, hey, you wanna have dinner? And it's always a nice message to get, and it's always a fun dinner. You're sitting with a person who's a legend in his own time. I mean, who doesn't wanna sit at that table? And I've been fortunate enough to have dinner with Lorne, Mike Nichols, Marty Short, like people like that. And the idea of, I just love listening. You know, listening to them and, I mean, are you kidding me? Like that's the best. What impresses you about Lorne?

1:16:53His longevity. I mean, comedy is a young man's game, and Lorne's been at the top of it for 40 years, longer even. He's just been doing SNL for 40 years. It's impressive to have the charisma, intelligence, whatever you want to say, but the ability to stick around that long and to be relevant that long. It's impressive. How are the nerves? Well, again, like when you realize, when you look at it that way, they evaporate. You're just like, again, in that world, it's a cocoon and you are well, well taken care of. And a friend of mine had told me, like, here's my, I said, I need one piece of advice.

1:17:45What's one piece of advice? He goes, be their guest. Act like their guest. You're their guest host. Be their guest. Behave like a guest in someone else's house. Is there a single moment from the three times hosting that most sticks out to you? No, not one single moment other than kind of, no. I mean, it's just, I wouldn't change a thing. I loved it all. it's uh you know that the epiphany moment of kind of standing behind uh in the back of 8-H and kind of getting pushed out through the thing that was like that was that was exciting that's a rush thank you very much cheers bud thanks for listening to my chat with actor john ham to see clips of our interview plus a friendly competition in the batting cages go to youtube.com slash Graham Bensinger.

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