Laird Hamilton: From a Tough Childhood to Redefining Big-Wave Surfing

32:51There's literally no margin for error with that way of correct. Yeah, well, a month before a guy got killed there, like he got his head, part of his skull ripped off and then died, you know, a couple of days later in the hospital. But, yeah, well, that breaks on a live coral reef. And it's, you know, the water's six feet deep. And the way coral reefs grow is they grow in the perfect shape to absorb the waves' energy in the shortest distance possible, which ultimately means that the entire wave will just unload all at once. And that's what it does there. That's why it creates such a big cylindrical shape is because it's it's all the power of the wave is just getting dissipated in this very short distance.

33:35And which makes it. Pretty scary. Explain the like mental conflict you were having with yourself as you're riding that wave. I had an instinct to jump off, like jump off, jump off, jump off, jump off. And and then I and then I was like, yeah, but if I jump off and I can't make it. Like, let me be knocked off. Let me fall off, but not of my own accord. Don't jump off. And if you jump off or get knocked off, you're dead anyways. It would be bad. Now, you know, you could miraculously fly around and not touch anything. Or you could miraculously fly around and land directly into a live coral reef that just rips you, you know, apart.

34:20And what's interesting is when you get in those moments where time slows down, you have time. You have this conversation going on in your head. Like, I mean, the wave only takes seven, eight seconds. But you have a full-on, like, you know, 15-minute debate over whether you should jump off or not. So, and it stems from the fact is that everything's sped up in those moments. So time slows down. It's like when you shoot slow motion, you know, you speed it up. So your assessment speeds up because your body's under high alert. because your body's like you're threatened. Why were you overcome with emotion when you got done?

34:58It was my life's dream. It was like a dream that I had that I wasn't sure existed, especially at that point already. I had already kind of been doing things, and I wasn't sure if my dreams could come true or not. Like I wasn't, you know, up until that point, it was it wasn't so clear like what I've been doing. And and when I when I was able to survive that, I think I think a lot of it had to do with just my body was really happy that I made it. It was like, yeah, you you made it and you weren't plastered all over the place. And so it was a little I was thankful. I was thankful for for pulling it off.

35:41I was thankful for that that even existed. In what ways is it almost an emotional letdown after you get finished riding a big wave? Well, we learned early on about post-traumatic. You get post-traumatic from big wave riding like you do any intense situation, whether it's post-traumatic from the Olympics or post-traumatic from war. And I wouldn't compare mine to, you know, my post-traumatic to a war, but I can compare it to being threatened and being at a high, a level of focus and a height of awareness that there's only one way to go after that is down and you get depressed. Post-traumatic, they call it post-traumatic big wave syndrome.

36:22We've had it for years. And once we became aware of it, then we started combating it. But in the beginning, we'd indulge ourselves and just get like turn into a bear out of a den, just not too happy. Like in what ways would you get depressed? just self-destructive just just just negative just everything got negative just started to go down after that height you know after that after that you know that that pinnacle of of focus you know that the amount of energy and the amount of focus it took part of it is you're exhausted once the the guards let up and you go okay you're safe you're back on land then everything just collapses it's like the body goes oh yeah okay I'm you know you do you demanded so much out of me now I got none left and it might be weeks you know that you don't have any left and and that's if and that's if you're aware of it if you're not aware of it you're indulging yourself in it meaning that you're just kind of indulging yourself in the negativity and maybe you're not you know you're not nurturing your system like you should be then it'll it'll drag on how would you combat it?

37:31I'd combat it through nutrition, you know, rest, you know, get work, get massage, just, just anything to nurture the system. Be it just call, you know, ultimately have a, you know, have a protocol of, of nurturing that, you know, whether you're taking saunas and hot baths and getting worked on and eating well and you just, just to cultivate, you know, and, and just the awareness alone that it existed was half of the remedy. Half the remedy was just understanding that you were having it. And then you were like, oh, this thing's, oh yeah, okay, it doesn't have the power over me. Because if you were in denial and you think, oh, yeah, then it would just have a full impact on your system.

38:16When you're surfing a big wave, describe what you're seeing and how it feels well you know riding a wave in a way is the ultimate improv because it's never the same twice even at the same place every wave is so uniquely different and you're always trying to you know it's a unique thing where you're where you observe what's in front of you and that tells you what's behind you when you come down on that wave and all the water drops down and starts to go like that in front you can see the water kind of draining down and almost going subterranean you know that behind you is a giant wall that's just rising and that it's going to be falling and you just you know you can like anytime i've ever been blown up you know like had the wave land near me and explode me i knew it was coming i can feel it i just felt like oh yeah i'm gonna get destroyed And that's only by understanding what was happening.

39:20But you aren't looking. No. You can't look up. Because if you look up, then you're not taking care of the business ahead of you. So it's a tricky thing. But, yeah, just being able to read what's happening on the water and knowing how to, you know, ultimately how to either get yourself out of harm's way or put yourself in a position to complete the ride. That's the objective is to make it. And we do that by reading the water. If the water is starting to come up where, you know, it seems likely the wave's going to crash on you, is there a way at that point when it's already that late to get out of it?

39:59Not normally. Okay. There's normally not a way to get out of it. It's just to minimize the effects. So you try to reduce your chances of really getting annihilated by either not being directly where the wave is going to land or to penetrate in a way that you're not going to get. You know, I've learned some techniques over the years about how to reduce, you know, the impact. You know, there's a certain blast zone. If you can take all your speed and get outside of the blast zone, you know, then you have a better chance of surviving it without, you know, with minimal carnage. What do you think about when surfing, when you're actually riding a wave?

40:35Nothing but riding the wave. not a thing except just that you're there and you're in this you're in this act you're you're in this thing you you actually kind of become part of it i think that's the the the amazing part of riding a wave is you become connected to it you become part of of this bigger thing and you're We can act harmoniously with it. When everything's optimum, there's a harmony that you have with it. And that's the objective, is for you to be in the harmonious flow of the wave. And surfers really are water readers. That's what we really are. That's what takes us the longest to do, is to understand what the water's going to do, to look at the water and know what it's doing, where it's going, how it's going to affect you.

41:35That's where the real skill takes in. because you're riding the board and paddling. I mean, these are all skills, but these are not the skills that take a lifetime like looking at the water and understanding what it's going to do. If you know you're going to have a great surf the next day, there are going to be big waves. I understand you can't really get quality sleep the night before. How are you mentally preparing, if at all? Well, you see yourself making it. You see yourself completing the rides, making the rides. And sometimes there's a battle between you seeing yourself making it and then you envisioning what will happen if you don't make it.

42:14Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's what keeps you up all night. How granular and intricate will you get in the simulation of it when you're thinking about it? Pretty granular because you can see you can see yourself just getting exploded into like, you know, into the into the air. But what about the flip side of that when you're, you know, you serve it? Well, yeah, you'll see the turns. You'll see the line that you're drawing. And again, you'll observe it, not from outside of it, but from in it. That you observe it from in it. What happened once when you were out surfing and you punctured your cheek with the surfboard?

42:54Yeah. I got speared in the face by a huge board that I had built for riding Jaws, for doing stand-up paddling. at Jaws, which is where you stand on the board with a paddle and you paddle and you catch the waves. But I was out on an extremely windy day on Maui and the board flew and speared me right through the cheek behind my teeth, but you know, below my temple. And I mean, it was, it was a fortunate thing where it did spear me, but it, I told someone it was the first time I couldn't really hold my breath because the air just, you know, went out. But, but I had a nice hole right through my face and and then I caught a I caught another wave and then came in and right you but you caught another wave absolutely always when you can I broke my collarbone at jaws and wrote a couple waves after but it was that was painful and why do you make the decision to do that so that you end in a completion that you end completing it that you when you finished you you you finished.

43:56You don't finish on a negative. You finish on a positive. And I think it's important. You know, the old cliche, you know, get back on the horse. It's for a reason that they made that saying up. Off the top of your head, all the injuries you've had over the years, name as many as you can recall.

44:18I mean, I can start from the bottom up, like, you know, slip toe, broken metatarsals, broken arch, seven or eight broken ankles, ACLs, more than a thousand stitches with no operations until that point, broken collarbone, separated ribs, broken hand, broken fingers, AC separation on the shoulder, a couple other slipped discs, like slipped vertebrae from jumping off a cliff. Yeah, it just goes on. Do you have constant day-to-day pain? I don't. I don't. I think I attribute that a lot to my diet and my lifestyle. I don't have day-to-day pain. I should probably if I, you know, I replaced my hip last year.

45:14That was pretty painful and only when I walked. So, you know, only sore when I walked. Of all the injuries, what's been the most painful? I mean, my broken ankles were bad because I walked on them. So the pain lasted a long time because I just kept walking on them. And I had compound. That was pretty painful. And didn't you duct tape them or duct tape the ankle? Well, I cut the casts off because I'd go surf on it. And then I duct taped the wound because I had a wound. So instead of keeping the cast on like you're supposed to, you... Duct tape cut it off and you just duct taped it. Somehow that was going to support it.

45:57And is that the ankle? Yeah, that's this one, yeah. And that arch has been broken, all those metatarsals. And I had six or seven breaks separately, not just one time. When they're done with this, I don't want there to be any recycling. Great. How do you view age? I think age is a mentality. I think it's a mentality. I think it's a decision. I think we decide if we're old or not. I see young guys deciding that they're old. I see old guys deciding they're young. I think you decide if you're old. I think at a certain point, you go, oh, you're old, this and that. I go, yeah, but I think you're succumbing to that.

46:36I think it's a disclaimer for people wanting to stop. And the decision to start acting in a certain way. Yeah, or just or not. A decision just to get out, to not have to take the effort to do what it takes to keep going. People get tired. Life's long. They get tired of it. They're just like, hey, I'm just tired. I don't want to have to just keep going. It's work, you know. I mean, it's effort. You got to put effort in. But the option is that you don't get to do all this stuff. You know, there's a saying that, you know, you can never have too much fun. And I go, yeah, but they forgot to tell you, you just have to be in really good shape to do it.

47:18You can never have too much fun, but you've got to be in really good shape to do it. Because fun takes work, takes effort. At least the sustainable fun, the kind I'm talking about, my fun. My fun, you've got to be in shape for my fun. If you're not, you're done. It's over. What's your typical daily schedule? Up early. usually get you know I kind of start my mornings early in the kitchen or organize the kitchen as kind of a like a mind therapy thing that I do make myself some a bunch of good fat and caffeine a little espresso with a bunch of a bunch of fats in there that lasts me probably till like one o 'clock and then that sets the you know sets me to go and then I go into to assessing this time of year, assessing the conditions.

48:10And then depending on what they're doing, I'll either do some training, some kind of work, or just straight into the ocean and do that until noon or one, and then I'm ready for the first meal of the day. Then you're ready for the first meal of the day. What from there? And then some other activity, whether it could be just some recovery stuff, it could be I'd be on the tractors, I could be chainsawing, I could be doing some other, or go back out in the ocean again, but normally we do one kind of big round of ocean and then you're done for the day. And then we go into other, like I call domestic stuff, but it could, you know, I'm working, I have a house I'm building, R &D stuff at the shop, or there's always something to, some creative stuff, and then we do ice and heat at the end of the day after that normally, and then some kind of dinner, and do it again the next day.

49:03And then the girls, of course, and there's, you know, pick up, drop off, you know, make sure they have all the toys they need. Why have you called your mom your biggest influence in your life? Just because of the kind of person she was. My mom was very supportive of me, even though she was disappointed with my choices to, you know, not pursue higher education. I think that was kind of one of the things that disappointed her. But, I mean, my mom worked, you know, 16-hour days, six days a week, and somehow managed to feed us and clothe us and, you know, amazing person. How much, if at all, did you struggle with that disappointment that she had?

49:45Well, I'd like to say I struggled more. I probably should have, but I didn't struggle at all because I wanted to serve. So I was like, yeah, Mom, I'm really disappointed. I'm sorry I disappointed you, but I'm going to be a little busy over here. This episode is brought to you by Athletic Brewing Company. No matter how you do game day, on the couch, in the crowd, or manning the snack table, Athletic Brewing fits right in. With a full lineup of non-alcoholic beer styles, you can enjoy bold flavors all game long. No hangovers, no buzz, no subbing out for water in the second half. Stock the fridge for tip-off with a variety of non-alcoholic craft styles available at your local grocery store or online at athleticbrewing.com.

50:25Your beer, fit for all times. K-Pop Demon Hunters, Saja Boys Breakfast Meal, and Huntrix Meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that, Rumi? It's not a battle. So glad the Saja Boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day. It is an honor to share. No, it's our honor. It is our larger honor. No, really. Stop. You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side. Ba-da-ba-ba-ba. Participate in McDonald's while supplies last. Your biological dad. Yeah. What do you know about the circumstances that led to him walking out before your first birthday?

51:06You know, I don't know a lot other than he wanted to be a merchant marine. I don't think he was ready to, you know, be a dad. I think that probably scared him, and so he ran away. He was probably just scared of that. And, you know, and ultimately he ultimately he ran, you know, he ran away from that responsibility. How much resentment did you have? Well, it was hard to have resentment because he was nonexistent. So it's a little hard to be resentful when you don't even see him, hear him, don't even know him. But as you get older and you start to understand what. Yeah, well, I think as I get older and older, I sympathize.

51:47Okay. More, you know, when you're 21 or 22, you have you're kind of idealistic. And then you're more like, you know, how come they weren't there and why didn't they help my mom and all that? But listen, it's a domestic man. It's between two people. So when you see a domestic, it's like it's between a man and a woman. And who knows what that was? You know, I think that the burden it put on my mom was difficult because she had to try to support me, you know, But I pursued finding him. I found him. I met him. I had a meal with him. And then I was good. When you were 21. Yeah. Why and what is it? Because I was curious.

52:27I was curious who he was and what he was. Who are you? Like, who are you and what are you? I'd like to know what you are. Maybe it'll help me know who I am. And what I realized at that moment is that you need to have experiences. at the end that you can be genetically related to people that you have no experiences with and you really don't have a relationship and you can not be related to people and have experiences with them and have a real relationship and that's why adoption works because at the end it's all about the people there that are there for you that that you live with that you really no matter how you're related blood what did you talk about at the breakfast you know it was a light conversation because I wasn't prepared to like hey Waka you weren't there and this and that and he wasn't indulging me in that it wasn't like well I did the you know it was it was a little bit more like meet and greet and kind of more interested in like hey what kind of person are you but we just really didn't have a lot to talk about because we didn't have a lot of experiences together and and uh and and I wasn't ready to you know at that time go into trying to you know develop a relationship with him it was more like I needed to answer this question this curiosity and I did that that that meal was you know was sufficient for me and I'm like okay okay cool I'm you know you exist and I'm on my way why decide to never see him again after that I think it really didn't it just came out of the lack of effort it was going to take it wasn't like he was the road and you can just stop by and say hey how you doing it was like it was a it was a commitment he lived somewhere else and it was like you know i was gonna have to and he didn't i did he wasn't reaching out making any commitment and so you know it's again it takes two you know it takes two to tangle did you wonder if he would i mean did you like a little bit a little bit i think it's just natural to maybe oh i maybe you know will he reach out or does he know what i'm doing or does he care and all that stuff but but i think that that you know again i think you know my mom's my mom's, my relationship with my mom gave me a lot of strength.

54:42And so I didn't, I wasn't looking, I didn't need it. You know, it would have been different if I needed it. I didn't need it. I probably wouldn't have minded it, but I wasn't going to be the one that was like trying to develop a relationship with him. Like I had already made the effort. I went out and found him. I couldn't do it. I couldn't even do it. After that, I couldn't do more. And he passed away when you were 41. Yeah. Explain how you introduced your mom to her new husband or your stepdad. Yeah. Well, I didn't have a dad and I was a young kid running around and I needed a dad. I wanted a dad, especially at three or, you know, three years old.

55:18And I was like, Hey, I need a dad. And I saw a guy that, you know, I wanted to be my dad. And I think I did me. I think they already were in cahoots. But the fact is, is that I saw him and introduced him to my mom. I brought him home and and he saw my mom he was like okay kid get out of the way I think I like you know I think I like your mom but but yeah that was it's a rare thing and they you know you can say oh I introduced my dad to my mom but but I did it was in and you know and and he just hit represented a guy that I that I thought would be like what my dad would be like if I had a dad and he was only 14 years your senior why do you think the two of you had a tumultuous relationship?

56:02I just think it's like older brother, younger brother. I think we were like more like brothers, 14 years apart, but super competitive with each other and males, just two bulls in a field and young bull and the old bull. And I'm just, you know, I want my own field and, you know, he's like, get out of my field. And so I think it was just, I think it's a pretty natural thing. I think it's more natural in my opinion to have a little bit of tension and clash between the males, you know the the son and the dad to be have a little friction that's part of what drives evolution it just happened to be because of the age difference it was a little more immediate it was a little more like older brother and so that you know that that kind of and he was you know I mean listen he took on being a father when he he was 17 years old he I mean he had to be emancipated it was like it wasn't that was a big responsibility it was one that my real dad ran from So the fact is that he was pretty tough to be able to deal with that.

57:02I give him credit. My mom was really hot. I mean, at the same time, though, he did. I mean, he punched you in the face. He hit you with a pipe. How often would he physically hurt you? As often as I deserved it was probably daily. I mean, you know, I was pretty radical. I wasn't exactly tame, you know, and I hadn't been, I hadn't grown up kind of coming into a disciplinary situation. I had been just trying to find the boundaries and being defiant. And so, you know, listen, I won't say I deserved a lot of it, but I deserved a lot of what I got. I think I was just trying to find out where the limit was.

57:46The fact is he was just young and didn't have a lot of control over his temper and had a wicked temper. So it was like a bad combination of a good flame and a lot of fuel. What was the worst he hurt you? He hit me with a pipe one time. It paralyzed me for a little while. I laid on the ground paralyzed. That was probably the most intense thing that happened. What were you thinking when you were on the ground? Well, after I was on the ground, he took this thing called an Ojo bar, which is like a giant steel pipe full of it's all solid. It looks like a drilling rod. and he threw it at this outhouse because we had an outhouse and he threw it at the door and the outhouse flew against the door and then shot back and hit him in the head and knocked him down.

58:28That was when I was on the ground and I just thought, somebody's watching out for me. But it laid him down. It laid him down cold on the ground. And I just, I think that's when I learned cause and effect. What were the emotions when he walked out, knowing that your biological dad, many years earlier, had done something similar? I think I was feeling like I was, you know, that I got let down, that I was disappointed, you know? I was disappointed that, and maybe that's where my admiration for my mom came from, that, you know, that it was the men would always leave and my mom would be there for me.

59:19And that was kind of like I had respect for her for that, for that she was always there. But, you know, again, it's between two people. I mean, obviously there was some abuse stuff that affected my ability to be very tolerant. but you know I think that that that influence and what that's done to me to make me try to be the man that I am is insurmountable like I don't think I could I don't think I could ever probably thank him enough for helping me learn how I wanted to be and how I didn't want to be. And unfortunately, I think as a parent, sometimes the lessons of how not to be are more, have more impact than how to be.

1:00:10And so I just decided, you know, I decided I'd never wanted to be like that. I never wanted to do that. So I've tried to do that as best I can. What kind of relationship do you guys have today? We actually have a relationship. Yeah. It's, I think a big part of it's been for him to get to a certain place. I've been okay with it. I'm busy. I got kids. I got a wife. I got a family. I don't have time to not have, I just don't have time. So it's more on his side. And he's gotten to the point where he can have a relationship and I'm here. I'm open to it. And at the end, you know, my mom was always about forgiveness.

1:00:51I think you just, you have to, you know, you hope they forgive you and you should forgive them all right gabby yeah the queen the queen what do you remember from the first time meeting her when she traveled to hawaii to film an episode of a tv show she was hosting with you you know when i first met her that i just thought here we go another you know another bimbo like here we go like what kind of dumb questions am I going to get asked and you know is this just a pretty girl like okay put the pretty girl on the show and she'll be the host and she'll interview you and then and then you know she was so intelligent and and after the first conversation I was I was I was enthralled I was I was like wow this is a a very interesting person, like something amazing.

1:01:46And, you know, that's why I said it was love at first conversation, not first sight. I thought, oh, yeah, pretty, another pretty girl, okay, perfect. But this was not just a pretty girl. This was an intelligent woman. How do you go from that to eight days later, picking up, leaving Hawaii, moving to L.A. to live with her? instinct my instincts told me you know this is real this is a real thing do something and being a big wave rider that's what we do we commit we commit you know we see the opportunity it was an opportunity it was like the only way we can be together and know if is if we do something i was in a in a terrible position in the relationship I was in.

1:02:35I had a new baby. I was, like, living in a barn. I was, like, it was completely a debacle. And, I mean, that's why I was going to bring that up, too. I mean, because you were married at the time. Absolutely. You had a young kid. I did. I do. And all of a sudden you leave Hawaii and move eight days later to live with somebody. So what's the, like, decision-making process like at that moment for you? Selfishness. I mean, looking back, though, is that how you view it? No, no, I view it as I instinctually knew something. I just I was following an inner like some inner instinct, something that told me like, hey, this is this is, you know, I wouldn't have just moved to California for any girl.

1:03:35this wasn't this one that you know i wasn't i wasn't even in this i wasn't even interested in in any situation besides that that's probably why i was the perfect you know candidate because i was totally the last thing i was thinking about was like listen i had one relationship that i was in that was that was you know not working out and uh And then I just met this person and my instincts told me, like, you better move. Otherwise, stay, sit and weep about it later. I mean, looking back, what, if anything, would you do differently? No, not a thing. I wouldn't change one thing that I've done or been through just because I wouldn't want to jeopardize the chance that I'm not here now.

1:04:36How'd your ex-wife handle it at the time? Not well. Not well, but she was already my ex-wife at that point. It was just going to be, it was just a matter of the details. It was already, the thing was over. It had been over. The fact is, that's the truth of it. there was no coming back from that that situation and I and I intuitively knew it already I already had known that that was it you know and and I mean at the end I got my daughter from that you know that situation I have my I have Bella Bella's a you know a beautiful girl and I wouldn't change one one bit of it you referenced this when we were talking about the the biggest wave you, or the biggest or most prominent wave you ever surfed in your life in Tahiti, how, you know, your personal life at that time was, you know, a struggle.

1:05:40And there was an interesting quote from a profile done on you a while back that I wanted to read to you and just get your reaction. In January 2001, Gabby gave Laird a fright no wave ever could, and she filed for divorce. appeared spectacularly naked on the cover of Playboy and attracted a mob of fans while shooting dice at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas with Charles Barkley and Tiger Woods. What are you thinking as all this is going on? So good, so good, so good. New spring arrivals are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. Get ready to save big with up to 60 % off Rag & Bone, Mark Jacobs, free people, and more.

1:06:27How did I not know Rack has Adidas? Because there's always something new. Join the Nordic Club to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first, and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite Rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you Rack. They say you should learn something new every day. Like how you should only drink Jägermeister at zero degrees Fahrenheit. Ice cold. Like those frozen cavemen they find. Which makes you wonder, what would a caveman think of Jägermeister? Well, if you served it warm, he'd probably throw it in your face, say, Oonga Boonga, and storm off.

1:07:00And nobody wants that. So drink it cold or not at all. Jägermeister. Damn, that's cold. Drink responsibly. Jägermeister liqueur, 35 % alcohol by volume. Imported by Masked Jägermeister, U.S., White Plains, New York. I'm thinking that it doesn't matter where she looks.

1:07:24she's not going to find what what she has already that's what i'm thinking yeah i mean so i mean not and honestly that's what i'm thinking i'm thinking like i'm i'm you know first of all you you know that no one no one's going to be where they don't want to be period doesn't matter what you do right so uh you know and and the fact is is that whatever was going on with us, I was equally at fault for. Part of the reason why she was there or doing that or whatever was happening was because of what I'd been doing too. So I took responsibility from my side of things and just started to work on that.

1:08:07Like I just needed to focus on, hey, what am I doing that's having an impact on this relationship like that? And then that's where Tahiti comes in. That's where a whole set of circumstances come in that eventually brings Gabby back. What did you find when you were self-reflecting at the time that you needed to work on? I think my attitude was I was a little maybe not appreciating, maybe not appreciating it, maybe just a little self-destructive on my own. A little self, a little... Like how so? A little too much Pinot Noir maybe or something. You know, just self-destructive. You know, driving fast.

1:08:54You know, a little reckless. A little jumping off high cliffs. Just kind of my go-to, you know. Throw all the chairs out the window kind of thing, you know. Really? Tell me if I heard this wrong, but you were drinking like two bottles of wine a night. Yeah, I can do that with my eyes closed. I could drink a couple bottles of wine every single night, wake up at 5 o 'clock and train for 5 hours and ride giant waves and do that for years on end. But the residual effect of that on my family and my friends is not productive. I mean, the thing with Gabby was it had to do more with me not being okay than it did with me not being okay for her.

1:09:38You know what I mean? It was more like, hey, it's hard to be with somebody who doesn't want to be with themself. And that was the case for you at the time. Yeah, I think so. A form of it. Maybe not respecting myself. How were you able to change it? I changed it. Right, I mean, like how? But that's how I changed it. I changed it. I changed, I just changed my whole, well, first of all, I stopped drinking. But even before that, I changed just all of my, how I was, how I was being, just my attitude. I worked, I was where I worked on. Well, first of all, I had, it, it was changed for me as well, because once, once I got to, you know, catch the, some, the waves in Tahiti, I had changed, I had done stuff already before that, but I had a couple things happen, like the Tahiti wave where it completely, it was like I had this lifelong achievement that I'd been working towards and I hadn't been able to achieve it.

1:10:42And I felt like I had been achieving it and I was frustrated by the fact that I wasn't achieving it, even though I had been. And then I got to kind of summarize it in a giant wave in Tahiti where it's like that, that kind of, for me personally, in my pursuits, that kind of was a monumental moment at that time. And, you know, and then I quit drinking and, you know, all that. That didn't hurt either. You know, that didn't exactly, you know, hurt. Why do you think after all these years the relationship's been able to work? I respect Debbie. I think that that's probably the number one most important thing.

1:11:26They did a study with a thousand relationships, and the only single factor that really was consistent in every successful relationship was that the man respected the woman. And I have a lot of respect for Gabby as a woman. I have a lot of respect for women. And I respect Gabby as a partner, as a friend. And I think one reason is that I keep her as that she's my girlfriend. she's the mother of my children, but she's my girlfriend. She's my babe. She's my chick. And that doesn't change. You can be the mother of five kids, ten kids. She's my girl, my lover. And that's important. And when she's not that, then there's nowhere to go.

1:12:19Your personality. I want to take you way back to when you had a rival windsurfer. Yeah. Who walks on a port-a-potty. Yeah. What do you do? Trap him in with a truck, pound on it, maybe turn the port-a-potty over or something, just, you know, grind on him a little bit. What do you mean, or something? You have to remember that. Or just knock the port-a-potty over. I think he got it, yeah. It was a completely full port-a-potty, wasn't it? It was a port-a-potty, yeah, with purple juice. What happened? I think he was pretty messy. He was a little puffy chested and so we had to bring him down a little bit, you know, dethrone him, dethrone him.

1:13:02How does or how has anger motivated you? I've used it as a driving force for a long time. You know, especially when I was younger. Now it's changed a little bit, quite a bit, completely actually. How? Don't use it as a, as a, as a, as a tool to, push me now. I use other things, other mental states, but not anger. I don't use anger as a driving force. When I grew up, when I was younger, I used that as driving force. Part of it was just self-defense. It was more out of just out of defending myself that anger was a good tool and I could use it to perform as well. But not anymore? No, I haven't. No, because it's not productive it's not sustainable you can do it when you're young when you're trying to come up you can when you're coming up and you have to kind of knock walls down and run into people to kind of make room for yourself you can get away with that but it's not a sustainable attitude you have to you know there's there's too many too much cause and effect you start to realize that the the impact the the negative impact of using that consistently it's not worth the it's not worth the you know, the emotion.

1:14:18You've got to shift the gear. How true is it that you've broken both of your hands on doors instead of hitting people? Yeah, that's true. I beat some Olympic, what I know, Olympic something, some guy in an arm wrestling thing, and then he had his thugs, and we were going to fight, and instead I just punched him. I just broke my hands on the door because I didn't want to fight. What's this process there? Huh? Well, I think it's probably better for me to punch the door and hurt my hand than smash somebody's face. At least the door is fine, and I can just, my hands will, you know. But you have two busted hands.

1:14:58I know, but they'll get better. More productive than me hitting somebody. And at the time, I mean, is this, like, you're thinking about this? Okay, I don't want to get in a fight with these guys, so I'm going to go bust my hands? What was your reaction with my emotion? It was like, okay, well, I could either get in a fight right now and hit somebody, which we know that's not going to be productive, or I just reacted and punched the door. I didn't realize it was an oak door. I thought maybe my hand would go through it, and it'd be good. With regards to your personality, one friend told me he thinks you're bipolar.

1:15:37Another said he thinks you have a low-grade form of Asperger's. Yeah. My favorite is that I think we have abbreviated abbreviations for all these normal actual human kind of behavioral traits that are work really good when we're hunting and gathering. You know, they've worked for millions of years. That's why we have them. Now in this modern society and culture, they're not so great. Right. They don't fit in because you can't just you don't sit in the corner and obey all the rules and everything. Whatever whatever I have is working. What do you think? Whatever I have is more good. Do you think there's any?

1:16:15Is there any truth? I probably have a little of everything, I would think. Something. I mean, I think I'm pretty, I mean, I call it a terrier. You know how a terrier is? When you let a terrier go and it goes after something? It just, it'll tear the wall to get. I used to have this rat terrier that ripped my cleaning lady's car entirely apart to try to get something that was in the motor. So do I have a certain aspect of that where I just do not let go of something and just will? Absolutely. I think that's one of the things that's allowed me to be able to do what I've been able to do. You know, we all have these different traits.

1:16:54It's how do you survive with them and how do you use them? You know, I think there's a certain percentage of high level CEOs that all have some Asperger's and some, you know, have different have different traits that make them extremely good at what they do. And I mean, can you still have a family and have a relationship and have friends and, you know, catch airplanes and live in society? I mean, you know, I'm able to actually survive in, you know, in the way our culture is set up and yet still have some of these traits that benefit me, you know, when I'm out in the giant ocean and so on. Are there ways in which, though, you've actually consciously had to go about addressing that to function in the way you want?

1:17:47you know you know what if if i do it i just connect it to being healthy so i connect it to nutrition and fitness and and being healthy and so whatever that means and so if i'm dealing with emotions or or if i'm dealing with some sort of thing i use it productively i go okay if i do heat nice and i do and i sleep well and i eat well and i train hard and i do all this stuff that everything's good so which I think no matter how I was and whatever I had that would be the case so it doesn't let you off the hook it's like you know and I and I don't know uh I mean I know at one point when I was going to school they they thought I should see a psychiatrist so they sent me to the psychiatrist and said hey you know you got to come see Laird and you know it took me about three visits to the psychiatrist and him and I were like this me and the psychiatrist we were like best friends right and so he went back to the school board and said there's nothing wrong with Laird he just gets bored and they go oh well that's not what we wanted to hear and they wanted to get me on Ritalin or something but the fact is and my mom was like there's no way in the world but but you know I think sometimes when you have that kind of energy and that kind of drive I think that scares people they want to go oh yeah you're good something's wrong with you you know we need to do something to to calm you down and you stay over there and sit in the corner and i just think it's you know it's just just has to do with energy it has to do with maybe being male along those lines gabby has said before he knows he hurts people and he just doesn't give a yeah well in in in regards to what particular thing just your personality although having said that i was talking to gabby earlier this morning and she said while I may have said that before he's also changed a lot yeah I think some of the the the fact when somebody goes oh he'll hurt somebody he doesn't care I think that's also connected to the fact that that's what's also allowed me to not care what people think that's what's allowed me to do a lot of things I've done because I didn't let their influence affect me because I continued to pursue it even when people go that's stupid you're stupid that's lame why would you do that and I would just keep and that's the same part of that the negative side the bright light dark shadow but the side of that which is that that yeah sometimes I that I do have an ability to not care what the what the people think if they don't really care about me or about what I'm doing then I have no concern for sure absolutely I think that's part of that's part but that also gives me an ability to be extremely forgiving to what extent do you find friction helps in you having success?

1:20:32Well, I mean, listen, at a certain point, I've understood and I've used friction to build energy for a long time. It's what it does. That's what you do. You crank a spring down. There's a certain amount of friction, the tension, build, build, build, and then it explodes. So that's something I've been using for a long time. Most of my career, I've been able to use friction as a way to build energy. You know, one thing that happens when you're connected to nature or when you're connected to the ocean in a way that I have been, I will actually come up for the energy that the ocean has. When the energy of the oceans builds and demands more, I can come up for that.

1:21:14Now, after I'll be exhausted, but I do have the ability to come, to continue to come up for whatever the situation demands, which forces you to use friction. If you have to continue to build energy even to surpass what you have available, you have to come up with it from somewhere where it just doesn't come out of nowhere. It doesn't just arrive. It's like when you have to match energy with energy, you have to match a certain situation. Friction is the only way that I've ever, that's the only thing I know. How does life for you today compare to what you would have thought it would be as a kid growing up?

1:21:57I think I'm right where I want to be. I think that I have a life that I have a family and that I'm in a place where I have people that I like. I have friends that I like. I'm happy with the life I have, and it reflects me and reflects what I would hope for. And I continue to push. And it's an extraordinary one. And I continue to push. And I continue to not be too content to just go, okay, that's it. I'm good. I've reached my goal. Because that will never happen. I don't think I'll ever do that. I think it will always be something that's a continual pursuit that doesn't end. But I don't think I've ever been in a better mental position in my life than I am right now.

1:22:42just the relations, regardless of what's happening with everything in life, there's always stuff going on. But just my mental state of where I'm at, my health, my family, just all my relationship with Gabby, it's like the friends that I have, all the work stuff, it's just all, it's in a nice place. Thank you very much. Thank you. That'll do it. to see clips of Laird and me paddleboarding and surfing, plus him putting me through the ringer with his extreme performance training exercise class, go to youtube.com slash Graham Bensinger. A friendly reminder, please leave us a rating and review. It's much appreciated.

1:23:25Thanks again for listening.