The craftsman: Jesse James on marriage, money, and booming blue-collar work

22:46Alina James:And the context on this too is I know when you were in rehab back in the day, a very impactful moment for you was when it was acted out. Yeah. Your dad breaking your arm.

22:59Jesse James:Yeah. Role play.

23:00Alina James:Why do you think that impacted you so much

23:03Jesse James:in the moment uh i don't know i'm six foot three 218 pounds strong lift weights play football do metal work ride harleys so i'm everything about me is like this tough guy so visualizing myself as a little seven-year-old getting ran down by your dad and getting your arm broken like it's not something i think i was ready to accept and now i'm just like okay yeah my dad was a dickhead and it was a it was the 70s that you know parenting wasn't really a thing parents that had kids in the 70s were from the 60s so like drugs and beatnik era and then hippie era and then like okay you're gonna expect those kind of people to like all of a sudden like okay this is what i need to do he needs to get 12 hours of sleep and like eat right and like no non-gmo and all that that wasn't no parents were like man these kids are a drag you know like i'm gonna say i mean to the point where my mom like gave me up when i was like four or five to like my dad and barry your dad and uh barry weiss okay from storage wars was lived with my dad and they lived in a warehouse in paramount they my mom dropped me off there okay you live with them now like great the great role you remember what you were thinking at the time uh all i can remember is like being getting the scared out of me by barry all the time how so well i was kind of a skinny little not frail but like kind of a crybaby kid and i remember my dad's warehouse was really long dark corridor and they were always uh working at night and i remember the bathroom was way back in the back of the warehouse and I was probably five or six and there was a hole in the drywall by the toilet and I'm scared going back there and scared sitting on the toilet taking the dump and then Barry for some reason got this glove that was like a fur glove and reached through the hole and snuck back there while I was pooping and reached through the hole and went raw and grabbed my leg when I was little and I jumped up and like pissed all over myself and oh they they thought it was just the funniest thing ever I'm probably traumatized from that but do you think uh you think your dad did the best he knew how uh yeah probably yeah his dad died my grandpa uh Jesse Herndon and James died in 1955 when my dad was I think 14 or 15 so like I don't really know and I don't really know much about how you know everything's passed on so I don't know how his parenting or anything like

26:02Alina James:that was so you know did your father's passing in I think 2020 impact you kind of in the way you were expecting? Uh, no.

26:15Jesse James:Yeah. How so? Well, he was sick for a while and I knew it was probably coming, but I tried to reconnect with him and it just didn't go as I wanted. You know, I think I had this like dream. I think my dad was involved in so much cool stuff when I was a kid, antiques and cool custom cars and wasn't a bike guy but everything else was cool and also also dealt drugs and like it but yeah there's that but I think I've always secretly wanted him to be part of all of this because I know he would love all of it right you know and I just it just that ship sailed you You know, he kind of, I tried to talk with him and then it kind of was weird and he kind of only wanted money and only really got excited when I mentioned sending him some money and it just kind of like, you know, never asked about grandkids or anything like that.

27:19And it kind of just falls in line with the like non-parenting.

27:23Jesse James:How did you handle that? uh I wrote him a letter and just like kind of told him everything out like from age like 15 when I moved out to like now like this is it and this is all the stuff and there's some stuff that went on I don't really want to talk about that uh kind of non-forgivable you know and like it's tough it's tough I think when you have uh I think I'm very envious of people like you and your dad you know like I'm like it's such a cool thing to me to see and I just always want to be that for my kids and what's funny is I'm uh on

28:10Alina James:the tail end of a few year period where I was like basically not talking to my dad yeah and it's when you're in that, you're, I even just in that few year period became immediately envious of people who had excellent relationships with their family and everybody getting together. Yeah. And it, uh, yeah.

28:34Jesse James:Well, I think.

28:36Graham Bensinger:The world moves fast. Your work day, even faster. Pitching products, drafting reports, analyzing data, Microsoft 365 Copilot is your AI assistant for work built into Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and other Microsoft 365 apps you use, helping you quickly write, analyze, create, and summarize so you can cut through clutter and clear a path to your best work. Learn more at microsoft.com slash m365copilot. Class. This class again? Don't sit in courses you've already taken. University of Phoenix accepts eligible transfer credits and has a scholarship for transfer students. Finish your degree faster.

29:21Jesse James:It's one of those things. All you can do is focus on you and focus on how you are with your kid and, and just accept it for what it is. Trying to force blame by the inadequacies in your life because of your childhood is trying to force blame okay i'm not doing this particular thing or getting this particular thing because my dad was a dick and was mean to me i don't really think that i think that's a cop out and an excuse you know and all this modern parenting and sleep and food and school and stem projects and all this stuff it's all a modern thing you know this is really only the last you know even when sonny was little none of that stuff really existed and uh i think you have to accept like you know parents from probably the 30s to the 80s didn't give a or 90s you know they were just like doing their own thing and like okay here here's some mac and cheese or had less of a road map and not

30:29Alina James:the same level of knowledge today but even if your dad did stuff that you considered unforgivable i I mean, you deserve a lot of credit for getting to a place where you were able to write that letter and attempted to reconnect. What made you decide you wanted to do that?

30:52Jesse James:Well, I didn't really talk to him from 85 to 2017. And did he ever try and reach out? Not really. like when when i became famous like uh like 25 years ago when i was first on tv the first thing he did is like you know you save all your schoolwork and pictures and stuff first thing he did is sell all that on ebay and and like you know it which is pretty hurtful like imagine your son gets famous and imagine selling some of his possessions or heirlooms or memories. Be devastating. For money. It's just like you don't do that. It kind of is very indicative of what kind of person that is. Just a hustler.

31:48Jesse James:He'd sell out anybody for two grand or whatever. What about

31:53Alina James:your mom? You've already made the comment about her just kind of dropping you off and this is where you're living now but you've also made the comment before about how when you were jailed she was the only person that came to visit you and did so on Christmas.

32:08Jesse James:Only person to visit me at the California Youth Authority one time but still a different version of my dad as far as like not really look when you have kids you have to make some sacrifices in your life you know personal life you know business life everything kind of has to turn around and be structured for putting those kids in the forefront and I don't think my parents really did that I think kids are uh you know they've got to be a priority and you, you know, and I think, uh, both my parents were kind of that area where that wasn't really a thing, you know? And I think I never really knew my mom until she moved in here.

33:03Jesse James:Uh, she was here for like five years and it's the first time I've kind of ever been around her for a prolonged period of time and I you know I love my mom but we just don't have that it's not that mom son relationship it just is it just does it does it's not there you know what did you learn about her through your guys time together here uh well I have a sister that's super shady that's been to prison for like check fraud, wire fraud, social security fraud and all that stuff. And I kind of thought my dad was kind of a shady character too. I thought she got it all from my dad, but I learned like, I think she probably got it from my mom.

33:50Jesse James:Really? Yeah. And they're like two together and my mom, you know, I just, I don't know. I don't want to talk bad about her because she's still around you know but definitely also me trying to force a situation because she got into a bad situation with my sister I had to go to Arkansas get her move her in here send the guys in the truck with the the big trailer pick up all her stuff move her here buy her a car wreck that car buy her another car give her money all that stuff and like kind of do my duty as a son to take care of my mom that's getting older and then uh it just it it just didn't i think i was doing it for myself i wasn't really doing it because i need to do it for her but then i realized like oh wait this isn't i i don't know didn't really i don't know i don't want to say anything bad about her but it just didn't the relationship i think i was probably trying to make it so we had like a oh mom you know and like have this great relationship and and reconnect and then i

35:04Alina James:realized like this that's not happening okay kind of similar to when you efforted yeah yeah yeah uh your dad which i mean again credit to you for making the effort but you can't change

35:18Jesse James:somebody that doesn't want to change so you know if they were like in their late teens and early 20s maybe it's like teachable but you know these are people in their 70s and early 80s they're not

35:29Alina James:they're not changing what makes you say uh that your grandma's passing which i think you were 12 at the time was still kind of the most traumatic moment of your life she

35:44Jesse James:when my dad was busy or traveling everything i always stayed with my grandma and like my dad was pretty abusive and my my stepmom was abusive and then there was times where i was like you know nine ten years old i'd call my mom come get me and she would never always had oh i don't have gas or i got to do this tomorrow or whatever there was always excuses my nana though like i would tell her i need her and you could hear the phone hit the floor she would be in her car come get me so So it was like kind of one person in my life that was like a savior, you know, and that was her for sure. Which you almost don't realize until you get a little older, like the impact that has on you.

36:37Alina James:Well, it goes to sacrifices.

36:39Jesse James:Like I said, my Nana was willing to make sacrifices because I was the baby. I was the youngest out of all the grandkids, out of all the nieces and nephews. I was the baby. And so, and she couldn't stand my sister. And my sister was pretty cruel and mean to me. So, you know, she would always gather me up in those situations and I would go stay with her. And like, she was an antique dealer. She was just the best. Like, just, just mom, grandma, everything. Like, I remember we were in, you know, she'd always make Thanksgiving dinner. She would be in the kitchen cooking and she'd like, she'd cut a big fart.

37:21Jesse James:and then she'd look at me and she'd go, shh, don't tell no one. You know, and it's just like, that stuff's like some of my best memories, you know, like just being that kind of connection, you know.

37:34Alina James:Or the time that you called her that your stepmom was being abusive to you.

37:42Jesse James:Yeah. And I remember staring my driveway, poking her finger in my stepmom's chest. like I was I think down the driveway I couldn't see it but I could see her like I don't know what she was saying but she was pissed

37:57Alina James:she had your back yes you know it's interesting um you made the comment somewhere um when talking about your own kids that um you know you consciously did not want to push your kids in the way your dad pushed you, but you have since wondered if you should have?

38:21Jesse James:Well, I...

38:22Alina James:Something like, I might have that wrong a little bit, but...

38:25Jesse James:Carla was always wanting to be friends with Jesse Jr. and didn't want him to hate her to the point where... That was your first wife? Yeah, and the point where she babied him and made him, and I think he's experiencing challenges by not really being forced to like accept consequences, responsibility, that kind of stuff. Our mission and job is to like take those kids and make sure they grow up smart, healthy, all their fingers and toes and get them to 18. And I don't give two shits whether they're friends with me or not. You know, the girls I was Chandler and Sonny, I was really hard on and both of those girls are adults now and completely supporting themselves never asked me for anything living on their own i take a certain uh pride in their self-sufficiency you know that i raise girl and and i think it's harder for a girl than a uh boy you know for them to be so

39:24Alina James:strong and like just doing what they want and when you say you were hard on them what does hard

39:29Jesse James:look like from you as a parent uh well sunny perfect attendance first through 12th straight a's first through 12th congressional scholarship she's a tattoo artist she's a amazing photographer which is why she got a congressional scholarship and like although she went to that super liberal arts school in vanhattan the new school for the with her scholarship and had a terrible experience you know but hey she earned it so i let her pick the school i should have been more i wanted you should go to ut then you could just stay at home but you know she's got a i think 18 kids have got to like get out there and experience it and do it make mistakes like when i was you know 1920 i moved to europe for five years didn't even tell my parents nobody even knew i left or knew where i was no one none of my friends nothing i just

40:32Alina James:gone you i think alluded to this that you don't really have much of a relationship with your son Why not?

40:41Jesse James:He's just, he's really, really a lot like me. Like he's just a, just a dickhead and just like, you know, like it's, it's not the same angst as myself and my dad. I think he's well Carla at the beginning of COVID in 2020 got diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's and dementia I'm sorry yeah and so Carla it was right at the beginning of COVID my first granddaughter was going to be born in a month and I'm like with Chandler I'm like what do we do she was living downtown so Carla moved in here she lived here for almost six years and uh i think jesse he's such a mama's boy and so close to his mom living with her her doing everything for him that uh i i think he's having a hard time processing it that his mom's not there anymore she's alive she's we've since moved her to an assisted living like memory care facility but it's, you know, Carla's this six foot blonde, busty tan, you know, tough ass bitch.

42:00Jesse James:And then now she's reduced to like, uh, you know, she was here. I was taking care of her for, you know, almost six years. And so having Jesse, someone that everything hinges on his mom there for him for everything. It, I don't think he's really, I think he's having a rough time with it. you know i'm giving give him a you know he like wants to try to fight with me and stuff and i just won't hear i just laugh at it i'm like you're you don't know what you're talking about but i can see that it's like his mom you know that's the nucleus of his life is uh hard for him to process that you know because alzheimer's really it's it just sucks man Kind of a young age for her to get it to, right?

42:48Jesse James:Yeah, she got diagnosed at, she's nine years older than me, so she got diagnosed at 60, really young.

43:01Alina James:Do they know why she got it at such a young age?

43:05Jesse James:She got, you know, she had a house downtown that she bought an investment property and then sold it, made some money, and then like I'm gonna go see my friends in Pennsylvania like her adopted sister and she doesn't have any family and so because she's a foster kid and I guess she got in a bad car accident none of us really know what happened but got a head injury and they think that might have been the start of it you know like when she's here it shows how great Elena is because imagine asking my girlfriend and fiance to move in but i have my first wife lives here too like you know it's a pretty crazy situation that she stepped into but she's totally was all aboard she's like carla's so nice i'm like that's not the real her like the real carla thinks i'm a dickhead and won't take no and she it made her really

44:06Alina James:docile and like how do you think the uh jesse relationship gets fixed uh i don't know i think

44:16Jesse James:as long as his mom is uh in the i don't know i don't know if i if i knew how we could fix it i

44:25Alina James:would do it i had been told that uh there needs to be a softening on both sides and that there's and that's only his side because i'm soft like i'll do whatever you know i love that kid and i want him to like you know he tried to work here and then try you know he's just

44:46Jesse James:i don't know i don't think he really realizes because the little can weld he learned to tig weld or he learned to weld when he was six he learned to tig weld aluminum when he was nine he can he's got those he's got the dexterity he's got the craftsman hands he can do it he just doesn't have any desire to do it he's trying to find the magic trick of life that keeps him from doing it from working and he he's trying to do all this other stuff that's cool oh i'm gonna work for a record company i'm gonna do this but he doesn't realize like you know the cool shit's right here you know you're like your your name's on the building already just do it and so I don't know he'll he'll come around I just think I don't know I have to just look at the averages like I have four kids three of them are kicking ass I got one that's a dickhead so I think I should be thankful that like you know I don't I just don't want him to be that boss's kid.

46:04Graham Bensinger:We all have that dream trip we've been wishing we could go on. But too often, life, or usually price, gets in the way. That's why Priceline is here to help you turn your dream trip into reality. With up to 60 % off hotels and up to 50 % off flights, you can book everything you need for your next adventure. Don't just dream about that next trip. Book it with Priceline. Download the Priceline app or visit Priceline.com and book your next trip today. Go to your happy price. Priceline. I'm R.J. Decker, the private investigator uncovering the sunshine state's darkest secrets. Tuesdays, it's the premiere of ABC's hottest new crime show.

46:44Graham Bensinger:R.J. freaking Decker as I live and breathe. He's a private eye. It's not a standard murder. It's someone bigger. And a public mess. Trying to get some back to prison today? You go to prison one time and suddenly it's all the jokes. R.J. Decker, series premiere, Tuesdays on ABC and stream on Hulu.

47:05Jesse James:Oh, what do you mean? Everyone you know, everyone I know, everyone everyone knows that has a successful business, they all have a son that's a f***ing f*** kid. And it doesn't matter the business, it doesn't matter the industry, it's that prodigal son it's just like oh you know it's like entitlement lazy you know they all have this certain angst for they feel like they're in competition with their dad for coolness or like you know success or whatever so to try to like you know it's just got to happen on his own look But he gets these, I think he's angry at life, angry at the situation with his mom.

47:50Jesse James:So he'll get on Telegram and send me a bunch of s*** texts. Wait, like what? He'll just say stupid s***. Like, you know, you think you're all cool because you're friends with Trump. And like driving your Hummer around like a douche. And like, you know, he's just, he's been detached and been with his mom away from me so much. I feel like he doesn't really know me well as him being an adult. You know, he's looking at everything on Instagram and thinking he's putting the pieces together of like what his dad's about and like I don't really think he, you know, he'll get it.

48:32Alina James:I was going to say the reality is even if it takes a minute if two people want to repair relationship.

48:39Jesse James:Yeah, like I love him, and I know he loves me. There's no non-love there, because like, you know, he got arrested, went to jail, and called me crying to bail him out, and I did a few times.

48:52Alina James:You said you're a different dad with Bishop now than you were with your other kids. How so?

49:00Jesse James:Well, Jesse was born in 1997. 1997, we lived at the beach, but the shop was nine miles up PCH in Long Beach. And so it might as well have been 9 ,000 miles. I wasn't an absent dad or a bad dad. I was just at work every day, building a business and stuff like that. I was being responsible and doing what I thought I was supposed to be doing, you know, paying for

49:29Alina James:everything. But by the way, that's the one part of your book that I was going to call bull to, where you're like, um, you have to know when to stop, um, when it comes to work. And I was going to say that's for you. That's more do as I say, not as I do, because you're on all the time, right?

49:44Jesse James:Uh, I've learned lately to like pace myself, you know, come on, really? uh well i mean even when i was talking about elena she's like uh he works all the time bishop changed everything for me because what i thought i was being a decent dad and like those kids they don't know what it's like you know and building the business and everything now that bishop lives right here i like want to spend like this morning i didn't come out until he's off to school i usually go with elena to take him to school then i go to the gym and then he gets out of school at four so 4 30 or so i know he's in the house i'll start wrapping up and like okay i want to go in there and see what he's doing you know it's like this situation is amazing because i can be a better dad better husband spend more time with everyone and and work more than having to drive an hour having to stay away you know it's uh made me realize like how much i missed really with the other kids you know sunny was always with me all the time when she wasn't at school she was always at the shop and like us doing fun stuff I mean I raised her by her by myself since she was three but you know I still miss stuff I still traveled I still you know they went with me a lot of stuff but I think Bishop I'm like this is just so much stuff I missed you know so much stuff and I think that's any parent you know parents are busy and they work and I think you know I didn't realize it until Bishop came along that like and I think I'm in a different place in life you know I think doing 30 episodes of Monster Garage a year which means building 30 cars a year and so I had a tiger by the tail and I think that took precedence over everything and you know kids marriages everything you know the work was always in the forefront and I think I've learned with Bishop is like I just the desire I just want to be around him you know I want to hang out with him and see what are you doing you know and he's such a I think I've had girls for so long he's such a dude it's like a boy it's just out he's like trucks monster trucks He's just obsessed with monster truck, grave digger, zombie, you know, all of it.

52:10Jesse James:He just loves all that stuff. And he's only two. And he's like in the backseat. He likes to drive in the dually because he sits up. He's like, look at that truck. Look at that school bus. Look at this. Oh, honk, dad, honk at him. And like, you know, it's, it's such a great thing. I can't wait. He's got a little, this old box underneath my toolbox is where I kept all my Hot Wheels when I was a kid. Yeah. And so I filled it. I go to like the dollar store and buy him like a ton of cars and fill it. Like he always wants to come up here. Oh, and he's super into it. Yeah. Okay.

52:41Alina James:You could take one, tries to grab 20. I want to talk to you about money. What do you recall from the period you were homeless and living out of your VW bug or VW bus? I'm sorry.

52:58Jesse James:My girlfriend at the time who wouldn't let, like I remember I got kicked out of my house or something happened with my dad where I was staying and I'm like, you know, I'm not going back. I can't go back. Like one of these non-forgivable situations. And I didn't have anywhere to go playing college football. And I went to my, had broken up with my girlfriend because she cheated on me with some guy on my football team in college. and I but I still drove to her house she was living with a girl that that I'm still really good friends with her and her brother girl Mary Fronte and asked if I could stay there and they said no or my old girlfriend said no and I didn't even really think about it and I haven't really thought about it actually Mary brought it up to me like she had to tell me I was homeless I didn't really, I've never really thought about it in the respect like, oh man, I was homeless.

54:03You know, like you hear some like drug counselor or something.

54:08Jesse James:Oh, I was homeless and living on Skid Row. And I've never really thought about it in that respect. I'm just like, okay, I don't have anywhere to stay. So I'm just going to sleep in my car. Like that was it. Like I didn't, it didn't really, I think light all my life. I still worked at the shop, the Volkswagen shop. I still went to school. I still played football in college and still did everything. I didn't have any money. I mean, I can remember trying to make it to practice, and I stopped and got gas and put 77 cents. It was all the change I had in my gas tank to make it to school. And I don't really remember how I made it back.

54:47Alina James:I don't know. You've had some kind of interesting money experiences over the years, one of which was uh a compton like compton drug dealers would occasionally come in and is it true one gave you like a hundred grand and five and ten dollar bills yeah like what's the scenario

55:03Jesse James:there uh that was a student named pat really good dude like a compton crip and he uh since turned legit the dude was last time i talked to him he was like a long haul truck driver and like really turned his life around but at the time you know he was part of that rare breed uh motorcycle club and like riding the wave of gangsterism and he like paid me money he owed me for building him a bike and brought it in a trash can a trash bag like a big hefty bag full and like 100 grand in fives and tens is like this much money and it takes like four hours to count it it's such a pain in the ass oh what about duane duane i just read the story read that whole story that's my favorite west coast chopper story really yes i mean that's a hell of a story yeah duane worked out well for you yeah it was it was just one of the the shop in long beach was because it was open to the public it was right at the end of the la river where it ran into the ocean right on LA Harbor and right in downtown Long Beach it was just like a haven it was like you know anywhere where a river bottom meets or ends there's always going to be it's like a border town and so it's just gnarly people and I think that whole motorcycles and like in the 90s and early 2000s anybody that was into motorcycles was probably semi-dicey you know like if you had tattoos and a loud Harley and like warrior hat backwards and stuff people are like they would go by you on the freeway and like lock their door now they wave they think you're like a dentist okay that dude was kind of in a league of his own though right yeah I mean it was uh well I'll give you the cliff notes so this dude shows up to the shop a cab the the shop in Long Beach has a has a mezzanine.

57:08Jesse James:My whole work area is on the mezzanine. So I can look over the whole parking lot out the windows and like see the down the work area. A cab pulls up and some dude gets out. He looks like sideshow Bob, like crazy hair, short pants, dirty. And I'm like, why is this homeless guy getting out of a cab? And it turns out the guy like had flew from Vegas, got off on the wrong exit, had the sack full of cash bought a bike for 75 grand bought a car for 40 grand bought you know 5 10 grand worth of clothes painted helmets for him all for all from you and it's a one-week span some he was in vegas homeless someone gave him 100 bucks he walked into the venetian put 100 bucks down and hit a triple zero on roulette and won four hundred thousand dollars and so the first thing the dude did was get a bunch of crank and get all right like he's all wound up on like coke then get a hooker then fly to see his sister in long beach get off on the wrong exit stop by the shop bought a bunch of stuff for me like it was just a seven week span And the dude blew all the money and ended up in jail and penniless in seven days.

58:29Jesse James:And I think the book chronicles the whole story, but I felt sorry for him for a long time. Like, oh man, that poor mother. Like he lost it all. But I'm thinking one week ago he had nothing. Probably couldn't even eat. he got like a hooker blow a custom harley from west coast choppers got a bunch of clothes got a 49 chevy fleet line probably the the venetian comped his room of course you know why they want their money back food he had some black dude that was holding the sack holding his money for him in a town car that was like kind of like looking at me with this funny smirk and then like i i i felt sorry for him for a little bit but i'm like man that dude lived it up like for one week how about

59:17Alina James:uh best and worst financial decision you've made i think the best is just reinvesting in the

59:23Jesse James:business reinvesting and everything like my my reinvestment now is every dime i have is going to that property next door and building buildings and a showroom and we're gonna work as soon as a showroom they're putting doors in the next couple days and we'll start uh working on the parking lot and just building investing in the business making it a home for west coast choppers and jjfu what about walmart uh i think that was good i mean isn't that an understatement well yeah i mean it did almost probably close to a billion dollars at retail which was in nine years i mean i didn't make all of that i only made a percentage but i was the first person to sell the walmart first license first everything first everything in 2000 nobody would sell the mall bar so i changed the whole landscape of that mass retail walmart but the best decision is to pulling the brand out when i did and what because now the brand is resurging and has a life of its own i think if you continue to just milk it until it dies then you're gonna you know you won't we wouldn't even be talking about it now it'd be dead and i think the uh hard decision when something's making money and successful to cut it off but you know retail prices start to dip and you know when they just want to sell the cross t over and over again keep punching the same button you know you have to realize that like okay once everybody that buys a west coast top choppers t-shirt gets one then it's just going to shut off like a light switch so you have to like save some for a rainy day and like kind of regroup the brand you know the brand took on a whole life in europe and asia pacific market and all that stuff so it's like a global brand now but you know if i hadn't shut it off I don't know if it would be that.

1:01:26Alina James:It's a worst financial decision.

1:01:29Jesse James:And, uh, I don't know. The first thing that popped into my head is I bought these sunglasses from this Chinese company. Like we made glasses. They're these glasses that my godfather wears Barry. And everybody asks why we don't sell them because I ordered like a whole can don't ever buy sunglasses from from China. Get them from Japan or Italy because Chinese don't give a shit. And so I bought a whole container. I think it was like 20 grand worth of sunglasses. But all of them, the lens popped out. And the lens wouldn't stay in. A whole container load.

1:02:10Alina James:Didn't one of your buddies who was on the payroll at the time embezzle a bunch of money from you two?

1:02:17Jesse James:Yeah, I changed the name in the book and kind of gave the Cliff Notes version of that stuff. I don't know if that's really a financial decision. I think, you know, having friends work for you, you know, it, that stupid Robert Green book, 48 Laws of Power, like has a whole chapter on envy, which is something you've probably experienced with your career. So it says, I hired a friend, the dude stole hundreds of thousands of dollars. And I love this dude. I was friends with them. I still do. It's taken me a while to come to grips with it. And like, I was really hurt by all of it.

1:02:59Alina James:Understandably so.

1:03:00Jesse James:You ever get the money back? No. When you're on this wave of success, you know, it's a magic carpet ride. You want to get all of your friends on the magic carpet. Like, yeah, look how awesome this is. The shop and TV show and all this cool we got going on. Come on, let's do it. You know, cause you know, these people, they knew you, he knew me when I was working in my garage and helped with me building bikes in my garage. So the progression is you want to take them. But that Robert Green book, the chapter on envy says like, Hey, if you have some friends that you grew up with and you guys came up and you're on a financial success level, way different than theirs, get them the out of your life right now, because they're seething with envy and they secretly hate you, which is a hard pill to swallow.

1:03:53Jesse James:But when he tells you how envy manifests itself, they say, you know, it could be constant praise. Oh, man, I'm so happy for you. You got that Walmart deal. You got this and that. Oh, it's awesome, dude. I love it. You know, but they secretly hate you. and money that was taken is money that they feel like was owed to them because they were played a role in your success so what was involved with you coming to terms with it uh reading that that book really that thing yeah like i was bummed about it for five six seven years have you guys reconnected uh a little bit i mean i forgive him you know he's never gonna be the same yeah i'd never be the same he's never gonna work for me right you know i still love that dude and still like we did a lot of amazing stuff together you know i am thankful though that all my family falling outs that happened in the 80s like they were never part of any success any shop any tv nothing like i got rid of those mother like i beat the train to the station because I'm sure if they, it would have been, you know, I did fire my sister for stealing.

1:05:10Jesse James:She worked for me in the late 90s and stole like 600 bucks or something from the shop.

1:05:15Alina James:So marriage, you've been married five times, divorced and remarried since we last did the interview.

1:05:25Jesse James:I've been married for over 30 years. If you add them all together.

1:05:30Alina James:Okay, what's your perspective on the challenges you've had on that front?

1:05:37Jesse James:You have to look at the common denominator. You know, it's like blaming my dad for any kind of experiences I've had as an adult living on my own. So any kind of problems I've experienced in five marriages, what's the common denominator? Who's the same person in all those, all five? Me.

1:06:03Alina James:Okay, what do you think the issue's been?

1:06:06Jesse James:Look, if I'm going to make something, I just finished this gun I've been working on for three years. So I've poured everything I had into it. I made myself a world-class gunsmith. I'm a machinist. I'm a metal finisher. I forge my own metal. I learn the ins and outs of building high-performance guns to make sure this thing functions on a world-class level and I will pour every resource, gain every bit of knowledge, every possible thing I can do to make sure this gun works, functions. I want people when they touch it and shoot it, I want it to be the best gun they've ever shot. So the dedication that I apply to my work and my chosen tasks, I've never applied that to a marriage.

1:06:58Jesse James:Why do you think not? I think it's always been secondary, you know? Shop has always been at the top of the pyramid and everything else is a distant second. Carla doesn't count. Carla and I were together 10 years. I was 20 when I met her and she was 30. And like we have two amazing kids. We ended our marriage with no lawyers and continued to stay friends. She got Alzheimer's. I take care of her. Like, there's no nothing negative. I want to sprinkle on that. But the marriages that came after that, I mean, the blame and the downfall of those, I think has to go squarely on me. because the proof is when things get bumpy, I'm just like, f*** this.

1:07:53Jesse James:Like, I don't need this bulls***. You know, I got to work. Yeah. So anything that's happening in my personal life that's out of whack or going, I just, like, chose to, like, throw in the towel and just be done with. That person's a dick. Blame it all on them and just continue working, which is a very logical point of view for someone in my position. I'm making the right decision. but at the end of the day, you know, I went through three marriages and like they failed. And I don't think until I met Elena was the first time like, okay, I don't want this to fail. I want this to work. And so you have to push through all the negativity, all your past, all your current.

1:08:42and like, you know, this is a person that's very different from me.

1:08:49Jesse James:All of them were. And I have to like figure out a way to accept them for being different. You know, it's always kind of, you know, honestly, it's always been my way or the highway.

1:09:04Alina James:I'm not trying to be indelicate here, but one thing I love about you is you're just blunt. So I'm just going to say it. In most of the serious relationships you've had, there's always been allegations of cheating of some sort. To what extent is that something you struggle with?

1:09:24Jesse James:Well, Sandy, I cheated on her. I admitted it. The media blew it away. I think nobody is honest about a situation like that, and nobody will fess up. take the blame. Everybody just denies everything. And I did. And I stood up and take the blame. All that did is pour gasoline on it and assume that everything was worse. And then, okay, now I'm a cheater. Now that makes every relationship after that. Oh, I must be cheating again too. So anything, you know, and I don't know, I'm pretty loyal and pretty, you know, I just think people are always going to assume that, you know. Were you straying in the other relationship?

1:10:14Alina James:Not at all. Not at all. Why do you think that narrative exists?

1:10:19Jesse James:I think because of the media bull of s**t, you know? When I do a Google search and there's 3 ,800 articles about me cheating on America's sweetheart, I think that might skew people's... people's and this is even before the tabloid scandal the media has always been really like hypersensitive to my personal life you know I don't know what it is I don't know why but like you know the struggles that Elena and I have been through the media just automatically assumes that I'm cheating and starts you know they're just going to go with that well and

1:11:05Alina James:And then same with Alexis. Yeah. It was the same kind of nervous.

1:11:09Jesse James:Well, I think the whole Alexis thing was like rumors and stuff started by her mom. Because Alexis and I ended our marriage and didn't really have a problem with each other. It just didn't work. You know? Like, I think the big thing is like I wanted to focus on my business and not on her racing career. And I did for a while, but then it just didn't, didn't too different. We tried to live that life together for a little bit, and it just didn't work. And I think you have to call a day, but people are always going to say, I don't know, I'm a cheater, I guess. I think it's, when? When do I do that?

1:11:54Alina James:I don't have any time. Hindsight's always 20-20, but what do you do to course correct forward-looking?

1:12:05Jesse James:Elaine and I have experienced some, you know, rough times and filing for divorce and fighting, but I think it's. And what was the genesis of that? I don't know. I think kind of bullshit, like, you know, we'll get into a petty fight and it'll blow up out of proportion. And I think it's not really us fighting each other. It's us, our, her past and my past having a war with each other and trying to prove that like you're like this no wait you're like this and i think it's like we have to realize i think we did and we have realized that like i don't want to be with anybody but her and she doesn't want to be with anybody but me and we have i think both of us are have such raw scabs for relationships that and by the way to interrupt momentarily

1:12:59Alina James:because that was one of the things I was going to talk to both of you guys about today. Elena was awesome on the phone yesterday. Yeah. And she talked about how you guys identified with past trauma, that like that was a point of connectivity.

1:13:10Jesse James:Yeah, she's been through a lot. I could talk, I'll comment on her perspective.

1:13:17Jesse James:Being with Janine and her and I having Sunny and me raising Sunny and Janine's past and past career has been a blessing for me that I'm thankful for that I kind of has given me insight to uh stuff that Elena goes through you know how so just because that whole industry is traumatic and it was the uh like adult adult industry and it's like it's well it does real real damage even it at its best you know women are damaged and traumatized and like it's hard to turn the page on that stuff and begin a new life like what's your attraction to that uh i mean i don't i don't really know anything about her didn't know her from that industry i knew her from guns you know and kind of and still uh today i ignore all of it i don't want to see any of that stuff i don't want to hear any of that stuff i I don't want anything that she did in the past related to that stuff in my brain at all.

1:14:29Jesse James:I want to know what's right in front of me. I want to know her, how much I love her, her as a person. I just want to know Elena. And nothing that someone did years ago should... Rated T for Teen.

1:14:46Graham Bensinger:Hey everyone, it's the best in the world. CM Punk, back to shake up WWE 2K26. This year, the show never stops. You're running the greatest spectacle on earth with the biggest roster we've ever had. Over 400 superstars and legends from every era. Stack the tables, break the rules, burn it all down. And yeah, my very own showcase. Telling my story the way it should have been told. Because when the show never stops, anything is possible. Available March 13th. Pre-order now. Here's a quick podcast for all you true crime fans. The case of the missing Reese's. It was me at the store with my mouth. Motive?

1:15:26Um, they're Reese's.

1:15:28Graham Bensinger:What was I going to do? Stop myself? Tune in next time to see if I do it again. Spoiler, I will. Wow, that had everything. Reese's, suspense, Reese's.

1:15:48Jesse James:Be in your current relationship.

1:15:51Alina James:Right. Because you want to judge a person for who they are.

1:15:54Jesse James:It's like, you know, I wasn't trying to find her or someone in the industry. Actually, it was the opposite because the bad, such a bad relationship with Janine, very short, four months. And we had a daughter out of it and everything. And it was just nothing good about any of it. Terrible. and so I think it was almost a deterrent more than any kind of attraction so let's just talk about relationships the whole day it's great my mom dad cheating what else but honestly like I

1:16:32Alina James:think that's one of the things that's so interesting about because you are kind of uh oh wait are you doing the same thing as tabloids right now no no but I mean I think that's why it was interesting taking a deep dive kind of on your parents and yeah your kids like because we all are like our experiences shape kind of uh you know who we are yeah but like okay the last one I'd have for you just kind of closing out the relationship topic but I'm glad you're talking

1:17:01Jesse James:to her yeah because it'll give you and people a chance to see what I see because she's she's awesome. She's just like this like 10 ,000 watt light bulb and she's just magnetic and charming and funny and well-spoken and everything and I don't think people have really ever seen her. I think everybody thinks oh he loves her because she's a porn star that's what he's into. I don't really think she's been any kind of like venue to like showcase who she is.

1:17:33Alina James:What do you think you've learned about yourself through your relationships?

1:17:39Jesse James:first and foremost, what I was doing before didn't work like plain and simple. Like I think to have a business and have a shop and have the things that I have and the success and have the skills that I have takes a certain amount of dedication. That's a 24 seven thing more than that. Like you have to like, you have to dive in with both feet and it's like jumping off a cliff. you know, you have it, you have to do it a hundred percent or it doesn't work on the level that I do stuff. And it could be, you know, I've associated it with that. Don't take too much from this world. I can't have all this, the shop, the skills, the products, the facilities, the knowledge, and have a great relationship.

1:18:33Jesse James:I accept that, you know, I accept that uh you know i can't do it all like i'm not good at that i think that's what i've accepted i think people probably see it like i'm great at every a lot of the stuff i do just not marriages like and i think it's because the attention and dedication level where i'm you know okay but

1:19:00Alina James:can you be at peace with changing that prioritization hierarchy to make the relationship a success, knowing that that might mean 90 % of the time you want to spend here, you're able to spend here? Or instead of being able to spend 100 % of the time here, you can only spend 90 % or whatever that time allocation tradeoff is.

1:19:28Jesse James:well she does she'll she'll stand up for it she'll step up and like she'll call me if i'm out here like 5 36 at night she'll be like what the are you doing get your ass in here like what are you doing i'm like i'm right in the middle of doing something working she doesn't want to hear it

1:19:42Alina James:do you think you will because the the goal is to as you were saying make it all right i mean so will you be comfortable with those uh professional trade-offs to make well it's balance yeah you know

1:20:01Jesse James:you got to have a balance so forging damascus steel building guns doing tanks and fenders for bikes being a coppersmith well being a present dad and a husband is also has to be in that same category and I've never ever put it in that category. You know, work has been the first and foremost in my life and everything else is a distant second.

1:20:31Alina James:Right, so how do you make that change? Go in at five o 'clock, you know, like go in and spend time and look, I have to want that stuff. I have to see the good in it, which I do. and I love hanging out with her this boy of course but I have to like realize too that like

1:21:01Jesse James:it's seat time you know meaning what well if you're going to be a race car driver you got to drive a race car a lot you got to have a lot of seat time and a lot of laps and a lot of you know when I race off-road if I pre-run and run the course and everything I'm top five every race if i don't do any of that stuff i suck i'm at the back of the pack same with a relationship if i'm not with them her if i'm not with her and together and doing things together and enjoying our time together because at the end of the day she just wants to hang out with me and i shouldn't be a dick about it i should just hang out with her and i feel like i'm doing that like i feel like our relationship is getting better because I'm giving her the time she wants and I want it's not you know and I think it's look I don't want to be this dude that's like 56 year old and like dating strippers and lonely and like you know I don't want to be that I want to be with her like she's like my dream woman and like I don't know makes I don't know I just I I feel like I have to put in the effort.

1:22:20Jesse James:That's it. Real simple. Yeah, which is the case for all of us. Yeah, and it's management. You know, it's time. I have to schedule stuff and manage it. And like the same schedule and management I put in with finishing projects, I also have to finish with like, okay, we're going to go out to dinner. We're going to do this. We're going to go to church. We're going to, you know, I have to schedule. that has to be part of my schedule too which I've never done never you know like you know

1:22:51Alina James:uh so I know one of the areas you guys kind of bonded over were guns when we were here a decade ago as you alluded to you were kind of in your early days uh getting into guns like where did

1:23:03Jesse James:that interest come from I moved to Texas oh come on it had to be more than that though my dad was into guns and I've always been to guns but it was a stifled you know hobby because California has such strict gun laws that I can't own anything even in like the first gun I bought in like probably late 80s early 90s like it was I don't know it sucked wasn't that great but that was the only thing available so i think uh moving here and then i don't know it was a natural progression you know you look at like von dutch started as a painter pin striper and then eventually ended up building guns yeah you know and i always thought that was like kind of a extreme uh leap for someone that's so skilled at something else but now i get it it's like wow you know and it's i don't know everything outlaw in this world has become marketable and okay and i think guns are still something that's taboo and outlaw and like people tense up just

1:24:21Alina James:when they look at it you still enjoy the gun business more than the bike business i think so

1:24:26Jesse James:what it's just more look i've built a lot of amazing bikes the shop's been in business for 37 years so and we're still the bikes are getting better still we're still pushing still doing cooler stuff but two reasons i've built a lot of cool bikes but no one's ever got one in their hands and broke down and cried like they have when I've given people guns grown men you know build a gun for a dude that his daughter died of cancer and I engraved it and did all the art on it and put wings on it and said you know here's your gun this this way she's always going to be your protector and the guy just like melted you know and it like it's such a more meaningful thing to people.

1:25:17Jesse James:They're not thinking about their son. They're thinking about their grandson. Okay. When he gets it, what's he going to think about me? How's he going to remember me? Because this heirloom, they don't show anybody. They don't tell anybody. They just get it and they put it in their safe and like know that they have it. And it's very meaningful. Bikes. On the other hand, I don't care if they're a half a million bucks. That's the first people sell when they need money. It's the same as like a boat, an RV or a quads or whatever. Bikes are like, boom, we need money, get rid of that. Put it on eBay. You know, and I think guns is more meaningful to people.

1:26:00Jesse James:You know, bikes will always be my first love. I mean, I'm a bike guy always, but the gun stuff is just, it's just a different level of, you know, also too, you need a bunch of federal licenses to do it so it that right there keeps people from copying my and you've spent like a month and a half

1:26:24Alina James:before designing like you're fabricating a single piece for a gun only for it to not work out like

1:26:31Jesse James:explain how that happens i have a piece in there that i that will forge today that i spent two and a half years on and then it didn't work and so we're just going to smash it and turn it back into raw material. Most people will do stuff and they'll justify the time in as whether the piece is valid or good or not. Oh, I spent two years on it. It's good. Let's just use it. I'm like, I don't give a how long you spend on it. If it sucks, it sucks. Throw it in the bin. You know, it's hard to do. It's hard to like, I, I didn't give up that easy on that part. I really like, tried every way possible to like wrap my head around okay i can fix it or this can work i can weld it or whatever and zero that damascus work there's absolute 0.000 zero margin for error in it like if it's if it's no good it's no good you just need to stop when we spoke in 2015 you were

1:27:36Alina James:thinking your goal was going to be to do 100 guns and 100 rifles per year. Still kind of the case today?

1:27:43Jesse James:I think we probably do 100 total. Okay. Probably 50 pistols, 50 rifles. I want to do less. Why? I don't know. Charge more, do less, hit a higher market. I've kind of created a market in 10 years that still doesn't exist in America. I think with my skill set, I streaked ahead of everybody. Well, we got a ton of resistance in the gun industry when I came into it. There's a lot of people that weren't happy that I was building guns. They thought I was just gonna slap my name on some shit and try to make money. I don't think people factored in my skill set and my knowledge and my manufacturing knowledge to that because now all those same people that like hated me are all like jesse's the best gun builder in the world now you know they've all kind of come full circle and realized like oh okay and now they're like you know nit nitpicking stuff that they don't even know what it is like you know they don't even understand like the technical knowledge and and skill that it took to make the

1:28:57Alina James:stuff i want to run through some famous people you've created for and just get what comes to

1:29:04Jesse James:mind uh the first one being kid rock uh him and i i just finished him a new gun and he was actually a dickhead about it he won i wanted to do it all black like mirror black with gold inlay and then he no i want it all gold like some someone gave him some crappy engraved pistol that was crappy gold and like i want it like this i'm like i don't really build i don't i'm doing i think some friends have got for me for nothing for so long that they just expect stuff for nothing and he's a rock star So, like, I sent him that gun and built it for him, and it's awesome. And he never even said thanks or if he liked it or anything.

1:29:51Jesse James:I'm like, all right, cool, I guess. How does that work? I don't know. I guess if you're a rock star, you don't really need to be thankful.

1:30:02Alina James:I'd imagine that's going to be the end of making guns for him.

1:30:07Jesse James:well if he wants he wants he can buy something i don't know yeah i think it's like you know it's trying to keep those friends along the magic carpet ride you know i built him a bike for free we rode across mexico now i'm gonna build him guns i could build him one set that was awesome and he gave him the dana white like so i don't know if he didn't like him that much or what but just gave them away like all right easy come easy go dana white is another person you've built for right yeah yeah i just finished the bike dana's cool and dana loves and appreciates the stuff i do

1:30:49Alina James:you know i don't know whatever what about one that i was not expecting but i read brad pitt

1:31:00Jesse James:and angelina jolie back in the day yeah i built them a pair of pistols i actually he called first because i'm his assistant is a really good friend of mine so he called first and ordered her a gun as a gift well at the same time she didn't know she called and ordered him a gun as a gift and so they built them both and then they i pulled it off they got it both of them got them and then i think he got both of them in the divorce or whatever i don't know What about President Trump? I built him in 2018. And like, well, you know, I'm the first person in the world to endorse Trump, right?

1:31:41Alina James:Well, I remember we talked about it in the interview. And you were a little hesitant at the time for it to come out. But then to your credit, you subsequently contacted me.

1:31:51Jesse James:USA Today did like some article and stuff about me calling the like, this is the ilk that supports Trump. like you know kind of saying that like i was the typical trump supporter because i was like worked with my hands or whatever but whatever but i built him a gun and i did you ever give it to him that was a piece i wasn't yeah i was like i wanted to like uh give it to him right but when you give a president something it doesn't it's not his it becomes a property of the people so it went into the national archives and i was real resistant i was like nah i just i'll just wait till he's done and i can give it to him after whatever it's my friend i want to give him a gun and then the guys uh contacted the white house said hey you should go look at go look at roosevelt's museum and right in the front there's a cool like english elephant gun that's all engraved and bitching that someone had built for him and I'm like that's there forever I'm like okay I guess I'll give it to the National Archives so they have it so the gun will end up in his library which is cool how did the Elon Musk one come about I signed an NDA so I'm not supposed to say anything but uh he did a property deal with a realtor that lives like a mile from here and so they got him one as a gift but it's got his name and stuff on it so he has to come get it himself because you can't buy it and then give it to him because that's a straw purchase that's a felony so i'm like so i did call him and i have it's gonna happen soon i don't know whatever if i can

1:33:36Alina James:get it and do a video i'll send it to you yeah that'd be cool what's the difference in the scale of your operation today compared to when you know west coast shoppers was at its height well the

1:33:49Jesse James:Long Beach shop was seven buildings, like a whole city block under roof and about 180 people and all the divisions running the Walmart stuff, polishing shop, paint shop, automotive shop, bike shop, parts manufacturing, all the administrative and offices and everything to make all that stuff go. So it was like, and a restaurant and it was crazy. Now it's just 12 people. 12 people here and then the office distribution centers in Rotterdam, Holland has about six people there and keep it. I had such a bad experience with a big operation and so many people and so many moving pieces that I'm so hesitant of growth.

1:34:39Jesse James:You know, I just I don't want to do it like I don't want to I don't want anything to interfere with my hands actually working explain the Jeff Koons example uh well every interview that Jeff Koons done does I've watched a hundred of them he like well it's not really my hands that do the work I'm like the hand that's moving their hands. He has this real elaborate bullshit way of explaining that he has everyone do everything for him. Paintings. He has like 100 people working in a studio doing like paint by numbers on all his paintings that he designs in CAD. He does these big, you know, those big balloon rabbit sculptures and stuff.

1:35:33Jesse James:Those are made in China. He like casts them at a foundry. They weld them together. They polish them. Then he brings it to his shop. They, they spray it with clear tinted. And it's like, I just can't wrap my head. That's great. The sculptures are a hundred million dollars. They sell for adoption. So that's success, right? But to me, I don't ever not want to be the guy that's doing it. People are buying Jesse James bike, Jesse James gun. It should be Jesse James that's making it. You know, I think if I get to a point where I'm just like the general contractor, then I'm going to do something else.

1:36:17Jesse James:I'll just like shut it down and like move to Spain or something, you know, like.

1:36:24Alina James:Well, on that front, I kind of want to end where we started, which is actually a quote from your new book, The Art of the Craftsman. You wrote, for years, I believed success meant accumulating wealth, but it took me years to realize that what really matters isn't how much you have, but how much you enjoy what you do. What was involved for you with getting to that place?

1:36:51Graham Bensinger:Eczema is unpredictable, but you can flare less with Epglis, a once-monthly treatment for moderate to severe eczema. After an initial four-month or longer dosing phase, about four in ten people taking EMPLIS achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks. And most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing. EMPLIS, LibriKizumab LBKZ, a 250 milligram per two milliliter injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema.

1:37:22Graham Bensinger:Also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. EbGliss can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to EbGliss. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with EbGliss. Before starting EbGliss, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Ask your doctor about EbGliss and visit ebgliss.lily.com or call 1-800-LILY-RX or 1-800-545-5979.

1:37:51Graham Bensinger:With a mustache, a taco on one hand, and ordering a ride in the other. means you're stacking cash back with Venmo Stash get up to 5 % cash back when you pick a bundle of your favorite brands earn more cash when you do more with Stash Venmo Stash terms and exclusions apply max$100 cash back per month see terms at Venmo.me slash Stash terms I think just the

1:38:11Jesse James:self-value part you know this the art self-value and what makes you stand up and walk and move and work and uh what makes you earn your dinner you know like who earns their dinner more the guy that was on a computer all day you know sending emails and everything and like whoo all right i'm gonna go i'm gonna go go home now and like have my wife made stew or the guy that was like a diesel mechanic, turning brake drums all day on heavy equipment and is filthy, dirty, tired. His eyes are tired. His hands are tired. He's got to like scrub down who earned their dinner more. And so earning it, using these things to support yourself and your family is like biblical.

1:39:06Jesse James:And to like there would be days weeks months I would never weld anything at the old shop you know I didn't even work didn't even turn my machine on I just didn't the I was a mid-level manager I would just you know worry about who's stealing toilet paper and Walmart stuff and flying back to Bentonville and doing all that stuff and TV shows. The one blessing about my TV show is that it was hard work. Like it's the only show I think that's ever been on TV. And it's probably why people connect with it so much. We're like, shoo. If I was ever standing around for an episode, people were pissed. Like they want me there working.

1:39:54Jesse James:Get your ass to work. We don't care what you have to say you need to work and weld. It's also too from the desire standpoint. Like now I've gained this, I've become a master pistol smith. I'm a machinist. I'm a sheet metal worker. I'm a blacksmith. I have all these, this huge toolbox of skills and knowledge. So now it's like fun to do it. And it's probably a big reason why it's hard to get me out of the shop because like, man, this rules. I love it. You know? And then like, you know, it's like, uh, Legos, you know, it's like you get a new Lego set and you have the instructions like, Oh man, this castle's cool.

1:40:42Jesse James:You're not going to put a couple of bricks together. And you're like, okay, y 'all I'll get the rest next week. No, you're like, Oh man, this, cause every step of the process it's getting closer and closer and you can start to visualize it and that's the same thing that i experienced i just wanted i want to do it you know you know did you we didn't talk about uh starting my own network outlaw tv yeah and i'm changing the name to pay up sucker because there's already some outlaw tv on the app store so they wouldn't approve it so i'm just like let's just do a pay up sucker yeah it's good we've been filming it's a total different experience there's been a big lull because developing the app and getting the app approved I went to discovery history Amy PBS and a couple documentaries I did on DVD I've got all of it back everything but monster garage all the cool documentaries everything from discovery history channel I bought it all back so it's all going on the app what would they want for monster garage well they're already putting it on YouTube okay Fremantle is so it's like I don't want I want people to go there and see stuff that they they don't normally see but we started I did that whole series American Craftsman in 2011 and they uh for History Channel they turned it down and it was kind of meeting craftsmen and then learning the discipline and immersing myself in it and applying it to what i do history kicked it back and said oh can can you refilm it but have like a sidekick or someone that you could yell at during the thing i'm nope so i retained ownership of it so we started doing that and we now it's taken on a bigger it's a bigger thought a bigger show a bigger and kind of goes to that self-value sorry and uh we went like the first episode i went and got my underwater cert for underwater welding saturation diving that's the only welding i've never done and i didn't know how to do and it was like hard like it took you know took a couple tries and it's just gnarly i'm claustrophobic and being 60 feet down and trying to hang on and weld so that was school and then that's the welding episode so the first part is my end of my journey with welding learning that and getting certified in that and then I went to a high school and taught kids how to TIG weld so that's the beginning of their journey and so the next episode I went to Huntsville prison to the walls unit to death row and they have a full metal shop automotive repair they have a whole cotton facility where they make all their you know spin their own cotton make the uniforms for state troopers and dps officers they make all the leather working they do the holsters and everything and so life-changing experience i went in there expecting one thing but the core values like we just spoke about the work ethic so these guys are never getting out they're in there forever life these dudes are just as excited about every day as i am so if you can it's such a negative place so every other thursday a steam whistle blows and the whole place goes into lockdown and then they bring a guy in from a holding facility 20 miles away, bring him in, take him to the death chamber, strap him down, lethal injection, 45 minutes later they call it, he's dead, the window goes or the whistle goes off again and everybody goes back to work and the death facility is like from here to where this wood shop is above here.

1:44:52Okay.

1:44:53Jesse James:So you're going to, with that going on every week right next to you and you're stoked and you're happy and you're working. I don't think of a better example of like what this work and work ethic does for people. Cause this dude's never getting, there's a couple of dudes there that are, one guy's been there since 1980. He's a woodworker And the dude's stoked. He's making beds and toy cars and cabinets for people and doing all this stuff. And they work 12-hour shifts, seven days a week. They hate Sundays because they don't work. And they just can't wait to get in it. So tell me working with your hands isn't valuable.

1:45:45Jesse James:Because these are thrown away people. murderers people hate them they ruined people's families and they know it and they know that they're on the redemption end of it welding making outfitting vans prison vans with the cages and ac units and stuff and it just it and this connection level on it and i known the guy main dude at Huntsville for about 15 years and he's tried to get me to film there I almost did it for Discovery I'm so glad that I did it for myself for my network but I knew about this because in I think it was 2004 I went to Folsom Prison just because it was Folsom Johnny Cash and we built a whole 69 Chevy Lowrider inside the prison with prison workers we did an episode at a monster garage in Folsom prison and like drag the ass in the yard and through sparks, like the first and last time that'll ever happen, but really good dudes, all the convicts that worked on the car.

1:46:52But I met, I went, they have for California school district.

1:46:59Jesse James:They make all the lockers, desks, all the steel products, they make them inside there and all the license plates. So I met this little horn-rimmed black guy soft-spoken he's the shop foreman amazing welder welded some stuff with him hung out with him for half a day and then I later on like what did that when's that guy get out never what did he do and it was like gnarly stuff they couldn't tell me about but like multiple counts of like rape and sexual battery and all this stuff so

1:47:35Jesse James:here's the juxtaposition i met this dude and connected with him like we have the same craftsman hands we can weld we speak the same language nice dude general craftsman then find out later after the fact wait i'm supposed to hate this guy i'm supposed this guy's not i'm not supposed to like this guy supposed to despise him he should die so i did the show and wanted to it's two part episode two episodes so the first part we go in and we meet everybody the same way show their skills talk about a little bit about their personal life and everything then the next episode we tell everybody they tell you what they did and what happened and have their thing so it's look i'm a death penalty guy like hey there's some people that are just broken you kill a kid or harm a kid or you know woman or something like that boom put them down it's like a rabid dog but stand this close to someone and work with them and tell them that to their face you know family members can but as a human and a human level you know i'm not like warner herzog where i'm like trying to say oh the death penalty is bad and like this is what happens and apply a bunch of guilt to it no the overall story that i built into the episode is

1:49:07Jesse James:look if we teach skills work ethic the hands that's what it's got to be about if we teach more kids to work and have skills and something that they're dependent on for their self-value and their livelihood and all that stuff maybe a percentage of them wouldn't get in trouble because every one of these is like drugs running from the cops because of drugs like also note don't run from the cops in texas because you're gonna get 20 years like with all of them no matter you know but it it's repurposing i think i can send you some clips of the show or i'll send you a file to watch on yeah i think you would dig it because it's nobody's allowed to go in Huntsville and film they had 824 there was trying to film before we are and they kicked him out and everything about that place is negative death penalty they don't pay these people it's slave labor they're killing people everything about it is negative so to do a tv show there and make it positive and show the pot look at these dudes man they're like they've repurposed themselves as a solid individual and it like i

1:50:34Jesse James:as my own network and being able to call the shots and do what i want to do that's what i want to do i want to like explain craftsmanship and what all this stuff that i preach all the time on a bigger level you know so you happy yeah life's good i'm i dig it like i think I think, uh, the brand West coast choppers is becoming really successful again, which I'm apprehensive about because it's like, Hey, I've been there before a couple of times. And so to have it like the number one brand now at a bunch of retailers across America and stuff, I think it like I don't think it's because of me I think probably people that are buying West Coast choppers shirts and it's like it's such a huge all these young kids all these like hip-hop artists pro football players Travis Scott you know all these people wearing the brand it's very flattering it's like you know my ego says like that's right I rule but then in reality they probably just like the logo and stuff or like like the style of the clothes but it uh I think it's a valid validation I think to a certain aspect but I don't know it it's a trip like I did not expect it you know we the brand does well globally europe it does well asia pacific market we do really well in slavic countries and and all over the place but here it's always kind of you know it kind of ran its course and then i pulled it out of walmart and we we sell online sales and everything but have it doing so well in a retail space it's like i don't know it's kind of cool like i guess i don't know Maybe it just means I'm getting old, that I stuck it out long enough for it to come around again.

1:52:39Jesse James:Well, both could be true. Yes.

1:52:42Alina James:Thanks for doing this. Yep. Thanks for listening to this week's podcast. Don't forget to leave a rating and review. And for more in-depth interviews, visit GrahamBensinger.com.

1:53:24Graham Bensinger:We'll see you next time. Online and in stores.

1:53:54Graham Bensinger:Your beer, fit for all times.