Tony Hawk: Landing the 900, Building a Skateboarding Empire, and the Cost of Chasing Perfection

29:27Tony Hawk:this is what everyone came to see no do-overs no second chances no more mr nice guy this is winner take all. The NBA Finals continue on ABC and the ESPN app. Who was your boss at the time? Stacy Peralta was my coach and I actually had my brother come with me as backup and he, you know, he approached Stacy and said, look, Tony's really having a problem with the competitions. It's, you know, it's kind of wrecking him. It's ruining the fun of skating. And I told him that and so So he said, well, you know, I understand. Maybe you might want to take a break, but don't give it up completely because you may want to come back.

30:15Tony Hawk:You may, you know, you may enjoy it. And I don't know if we're going to be able to sustain your career if you're not competing. And I did take a break. I stopped competing for a while, almost a year, maybe a little less. And when I came back to it, I came back with sort of a fresh perspective that I don't really care how it lays out. I'm gonna go and do my best and I'm gonna take chances that I maybe hadn't taken before and if that puts puts me in last place then I so be it But if if it's if I succeed I'm gonna be on this whole other level of skating Mm-hmm, and that's what happened. I mean and the contest that I won then I won By a long shot, you know because I was doing stuff that was Experimental and stuff that I wasn't really confident with but but I could pull it through somehow and if it didn't happened, then I didn't do well at all.

31:06Tony Hawk:And I stopped caring about the end results so much. Very quickly, though, there was an enormous drop-off in the skating world. And I only bring this up for purposes of just speaking to how big of a financial drop-off it was. I think when you were like 21 years old, you made something like$150 ,000. Speaking to the financial drop-off, year after that and the year after that what did you make oh i i mean every year after let's see when i was about uh 22 years old 21 every year my my salary was was being cut in half pretty much cut in half yeah and in terms of board royalties or team salaries and things like that um the the competitions were drying up the prize money was getting smaller in those few competitions.

31:58And it's not as if you were getting worse I mean you were continuing.

32:01Tony Hawk:No I was still learning I was still improving. How much of a financial bind did you put yourself in as the money began to kind of dry up? It was tricky I was dealing with two mortgages I was just starting a family and I was still trying to skate and you know basically like doing everything I could to make skating a career still. And I really pulled back on all expenses. And I was eating Top Ramen and Taco Bell and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for a good two years. Really? Yeah. Refinanced my house, sold it at a loss, moved into my original house, my duplex that I grew up, that I was living in in high school and with a family now.

32:52Tony Hawk:But at the same time, even though I was making those adjustments, I never felt like I was struggling because I still got to skate for a living. And that was the dream realized. And it wasn't a dream that was necessarily available to us when I was younger. To dream about being the best skater in those days just meant that you got free gear and a sponsor. But, I mean, big change in lifestyle for you at the time. Big change in lifestyle for sure. I think your then wife was a manicurist, and at one point she started making more money than you. I think you briefly considered taking a job in computer programming.

33:30What was the lowest point of that time? I think the lowest point in that time for me was agreeing to do exhibitions in amusement park parking lots.

33:49Tony Hawk:for$100 a day, three shows a day, and traveling to St. Louis or to Dallas to go do that, and staying there for five days to do that. I mean, that was literally just to pay the bills. Because it wasn't something I was necessarily enjoying. The ramp was not amazing. You know, the setup was not amazing. We were treated like sort of the bastard children of the amusement park, first of all. And - Sleeping many to a hotel? four people to a hotel room yeah um and so i it wasn't like i i i don't know it's hard to explain like i still love that i got to skate that was it you know and that that's what i had to do it was more just born out of necessity that's what i had to do if i wanted to make a living skating i had to do things like that and you end up making an interesting move because here you are you're essentially on the other side of broke skateboarding or skating is a career looks like or the sport just kind of looks like it's going under sponsorships are going away why decide to start your own company amid all of that um well the my style of skating at the time as as skating was taking a dive my style of skating was definitely taking a worse dive like I was a vert skater.

35:10Tony Hawk:I skated big ramps. And that was a fairly specialized style back then. It used to be more popular than street skating. It was actually, well, it was around longer than street skating anyway. I mean, is it thinking, I'm screwed regardless, so why not? I'll give it a shot. Or did you kind of see the light at the end of the tunnel? I wanted to continue to be in the skate industry. And I wanted to do something on my own. The skate companies at that time, they started shifting their direction and their marketing. It was more about, it was less about, look at how good our skaters are. It was more about, look how lame all you other companies are.

35:50Tony Hawk:And I thought, why can't we just promote good skating? And I decided that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to create my own team. So I handpicked some of the best riders then and said, look, we're going to make this thing. It's not what everyone else is doing. It's going to be based on we're going to highlight you guys and your amazing skills and not worry about what everyone else is doing. And so that's when I took my biggest risk for sure. Pretty much all the money I had saved at the time I dumped into starting a company. And you created the company Birdhouse. Birdhouse Skateboards. How personally gratifying was it the first time the company actually made a profit?

36:30Tony Hawk:To be honest, the company struggled for about two years, and we almost gave up twice. There was a time when my partner and I both said, we may have to just throw in the towel. This isn't working. We're barely covering salaries. I think at one point we had to put more money into it, and I didn't really have that much money to put into it. And it wasn't until, to be honest, it wasn't until we started in 92. In 1995, the first X Games happened. And it was very strange and experimental and a little disjointed. You know, it was like we were highlighted with bungee jumping and sky surfing and skateboarding.

37:11Tony Hawk:I didn't know what the connection was, but they said it was extreme. So, okay, whatever it takes to be, you know, back in competition, that was fine with me. and I got back in. I started competing again. The very next year of X Games is when we saw Birdhouse start to take off and that was the moment of validation for us both. We're like, we endured this because we believed in it and we hoped and almost expected skating to come back and to come back in full swing, but we thought it would happen sooner and now we're on top because we had one of the best teams. we had placed ourselves as a brand at a time when skating was very small, so it wasn't hard to get noticed.

37:56Tony Hawk:And then as skating came back in the upswing, we were sitting on top because we had established ourselves there. We're doing the interview from your offices. What's housed in this building? Well, this building, this is Tony Hawk Incorporated. It houses Birdhouse Skateboards, Tony Hawk Foundation, our foundation for public skate parks. TH events, which we do exhibitions, we do the Boom Boom Huck Jam Tour. We do, you know, this ramp is portable. We take it around the world and skate on it for big crowds. We have 900 Films, which does film production. We have our own YouTube channel, Ride Channel, which is all skate content.

38:36Tony Hawk:And other than that, a lot of design and a lot of scheduling here. You own companies that market clothes, shoes, films, skateboards, gear, events. You're involved in retail, video games, obviously. How about the work that is most personally satisfying that your businesses do? The stuff that is closest to my heart is doing the Foundation for Public Skate Parks. And basically, we try to help to fund public skate parks in low-income areas where there's a lot of at-risk youth that maybe don't have much outlets for activities, but choose to skateboard and don't have many support in doing so. And there are way more than people imagine.

39:22Tony Hawk:You know, people choose to skate everywhere. And so our foundation gives communities resources and funding and the tools to get a park going in their area. And to date, we've given way over$4 million. We've helped to fund over 500 skate parks. and going to the old grand openings that I've only attended a number of them, like a handful of them, but seeing the faces and seeing the excitement and the validation of their own efforts because we try to empower the communities that have already got the ball rolling. It's not like we just wave a magic wand and decide which city gets a park. We actually want them to feel like they have ownership of it.

40:05Tony Hawk:And to go to the grand openings and see the faces of the kids is that's the best how did the video game franchise impact your success um video games changed my life uh no question you know they they brought me a level of success that i'd never dreamed possible um in any chosen uh field you know i just never thought that i could have skating resonate so far and with so much reach through through something like that I'm extremely proud of it. You know, I worked very hard on it and I wanted to make it authentic and make it fun to play. Being a video gamer as well, I knew what would be fun to play in video games as well as what would be fun for skaters.

40:51Tony Hawk:And, you know, I got so many different opportunities because of that, because of the success of it in terms of endorsements and appearances and even just like name recognition. and I actually had moms come up to me and say, I didn't know Tony Hawk was a real person. I thought it was just the name of video game character. My little sister hates sports and it was the only video game she used to want to play. Yeah, well, like I said, I was really proud of our game. And honestly, I thought we just made a novelty game. I was excited to get to do a video game, but I thought it was something that skaters would appreciate and maybe be inspired to buy a video game console so they could play it.

41:34Tony Hawk:And that would be the end of it. So those were kind of your expectations preceding the release of the initial game. How would you put into context the success of the franchise? The franchise, I mean, it sold over a billion dollars in units. Or not units, but in sales. There was a point when, I think when we released our fourth game, the first and second and maybe third games were still in the top ten. of sales. And we were four years into it with our fourth game. It was unbelievable. You know, it was just nothing I ever imagined. And I think I knew we were on to something when, as the game was starting to be released, there were a few friends of mine that were in the same boat where they loved skating, but they also were very much into video games.

42:28Tony Hawk:And I actually gave them advanced copies of it. And I was like, don't show anybody this, but here's the game. and obviously they didn't just keep it to themselves but showed others and it became known as in the skate industry it became known as the game have you played the game that's all you know that and to have to have it referred to like that I knew we had something pretty big because those guys knew video games as well as skating Activision offered you a buyout at some point that would have enabled them to use your name and likeness in conjunction with the game for perpetuity. Explain the thinking that went into the decision you made on that front.

43:10Tony Hawk:You know, I don't remember the exact details of that, but I do remember my agent calling me at the time. Heck of a move looking back, but it was a gamble. Yeah, well, my agent called me at the time and they said, hey, Activision is offering for a buyout of advanced royalties and whatnot if you want money right now and I think it was I want to say it was a hundred thousand dollars but I think it was less and I said what's the advantage of that and he said well if you don't want to if you don't want to take a gamble that the game doesn't do well you know this could be a lot of money if it doesn't sell that much and I had just bought a new house um I was doing pretty well with birdhouse uh you know I was comfortable I wasn't struggling and I said I want to ride it out I believe in this you know i put my i put my heart and soul into this thing and and i really want to see what happens with it he said okay it's just you know if maybe you need some money right now i don't know if you're buying another house or whatever i just bought a house and because i could tell he was kind of leaning towards getting the money and i said i really don't want to do that yet and uh i mean thank god i didn't do that does the agent still get the percentage of the royalty no he left that agency not long after that i don't know if he was pushed out but we stopped working together.

44:28They'd send you a game apparently every few weeks or a new updated version of it when they were in the process of designing it. How would you contribute to that process?

44:38Tony Hawk:I would play the game every probably two weeks I would get the version they're working on and I would just play it as much as I possibly could and give them suggestions for this trick should look more like this, this challenge should be different, this guy doesn't look this way, or this spot should be included. It was all very detail-oriented. I wasn't a programmer or anything, but I definitely wanted it to feel right and feel authentic. When you finally find your thing, you want the whole world to know about that thing. So you use a thing called Canva to make it an even bigger and better thing.

45:20Whether you want to create flyers for that thing, make presentations for that thing, or design merch for that thing, you can do anything. So people can see your thing, feel your thing, love your thing. The next thing you know, it's a thing. Canva, the thing that makes anything a thing. Where is Daredevil? A minor. Don't miss the return of Marvel Television's Daredevil Born Again. So what's next?

45:50Tony Hawk:I've been liberated. We're going to take this city back. Over Medicaid. In an all new season, now streaming only on Disney+. They're hunting us. It's time we started hunting them. I can work with them. This should be tons of fun. Marvel Television's Daredevil Born Again, now streaming only on Disney+. Retirement from competition. You said, quote, I don't want all the pressure of competing anymore. all the scrutiny. When I decided to stop competing, it was 1999. I had done it for 20 years of my life. And it basically was my existence. You know, like I said, in the 80s, that's all there was was competition.

46:32Tony Hawk:And I felt like I was reaching a stage that there might be more opportunity outside of competition. And I would like to chase that and see what is possible with skateboarding and how far we can take this. and in 1999 I pretty much decided the beginning of the year that was going to be my last year of competition and then the X Games I did the first 900 I had probably one of my best years in terms of other competitions you know across the board and I thought that's it that was a good out that's good end to the competition and the hardest thing was that because I left on such a high note all people thought was that I was leaving completely.

47:15Tony Hawk:I was retiring. And that was the hardest title to defend because people say, you're retired. Well, no, I'm not retiring. I'm just doing all these other things that I can do now with my schedule because I'm not chasing these competition points all year. Well, then it's different if you're a baseball player or a football player. It's way different. And in skateboarding... Because you can retire, just to make the distinction, you can retire from competition, but you can still skate in the exhibition and skate all the time. And be even more successful. Right. Whereas if you retire from baseball or football, that's it.

47:48That's it.

47:48Tony Hawk:You're not playing pickup games down the street or for thousands of people. Right. Yeah, it's just a different sport. But there are many professional skateboarders that don't compete ever now and never have, you know. But they're not put with this label of retired because they never did compete. But they're some of the most popular. You know, guys like Andrew Reynolds, guys like Jamie Thomas. These are names that resonate, but they have nothing to do with competition because they perform at a top level. They make incredible videos. They get coverage in the magazines, and people know their names.

48:21At 18 years old, you were quoted as saying maybe you could see yourself doing it for another five years. What do you think changed?

48:31Tony Hawk:um well the the idea that you had to quit skating into your adult life was always put on us because of the the generation before us they had to quit because they weren't able to make a living at it so once they reached an age of responsibility they had to get jobs you know skating was not going to provide for them um when i was in my 20s skating started to take a dive and i realized well that's the position i'm in i'm not going to be able to do this into my adult life because I can't I can't make a living at it and I'm gonna have to do something else and that's when I started doing video editing on the side sort of freelance as skating came back in a big way in its biggest way in the late 90s I was still actively doing it I was starting to compete I did really well I I realized I could do this into my adult life because the opportunity was there and i think that's what changed is is the opportunity the uh most satisfying moment from your professional uh skating career would be what uh most satisfying mom was making 900 for sure because it was something that i wanted for so long and i had tried and failed for a good five years before i finally made one and the fact that i made in what then was the biggest venue on live TV.

49:53Tony Hawk:That's not something that was ever in my head that I had to do it there, but the fact that it did work out there, it was a big deal, and I feel like it definitely raised the profile of skateboarding and action sports in general. How would you best explain the significance of landing that trick? It was the culmination of a list of tricks that I always wanted to do in my lifetime that I thought were possible and stuff that I had been carving out. I'd check one off, I'd get this one. Okay, what's next? I want to do this, and eventually I'd get it. 900 was a trick that I had been chasing, been trying, been killing myself doing, and never came through.

50:36Tony Hawk:And I'd never tried a trick and failed at something for so long. In 1986, the first time you tried the 900, or then you don't try it again for another decade. Why the brick? Well, I kind of tried it in 86. I tried to spin my body. I got almost around. I didn't keep my board with me and realize it was just too scary. And then around 95, when I was really hitting my stride in competition and in skating, I thought, okay, maybe I've been spinning 720s for the last 10 years um or more and maybe i can start trying it and i actually did start trying it and started actively pursuing it um it was it just took it was because that break because i wasn't skating that much and there was too much to risk in that time to chase this trick that seemed impossible the most challenging part of not only landing it but perfecting the 900.

51:43Tony Hawk:The most challenging part is consistent spin, consistent height and consistent spin. And nowadays... And what if somebody like me who knows nothing about skating... Well, okay, the most challenging part of a 900 is committing yourself to spinning two and a half times. Two and a half times mid-air. Yeah, one and a half is there's a moment where you're completely blind to your landing zone. and that is one of the most frightening things that you can think of when you first start skating is that you can't see where you're going to land but you have to trust that you will come around to it. When you do a 900...

52:19Tony Hawk:And how high up are you? On a 540 you have to be at least four or five feet above the ramp. On a 900 you've got to be more like six feet unless you're able to spin amazingly fast. But the thing about a 900 is you're blind to your landing zone twice. And that doesn't mean you get to spot it halfway between. That just means you have to feel the spin in your body. It's like the sixth sense. You just have to know where you are in space without seeing it. And that's the most challenging thing is to commit yourself to that spin when you really have no idea how you're going to end up. Nowadays, with the advent of bigger ramps, mega ramps, and things like that, the kids who can do spins, they learn 900s.

53:10Tony Hawk:They learn 900s pretty quickly because they have a lot of airtime. And I think it's great. I think it's great that we've evolved that much, that there are these bigger ramps. There is this opportunity. I mean, are you kidding me? When I was young, to consider a 30-foot ramp, firstly, sounds frightening. But secondly, no one's going to build that. No one's got the money or the resources to do something like that. And now that kind of everything exists at a skate camp. You can take your kid to the skate camp and ride the 30 foot ramp. Have fun. At those 99, or the 99X games, after you're attempting the 900, and it wasn't the first time you got it, the 12th try, but after the first time, second time, third time, as you're repeatedly trying it time after time and unable to land it, what's going through your head?

54:06Tony Hawk:Well, every other time that I had set out to do it, I had it in my head that this is the day. I'm going to do it this day. And I probably tried it way more than 12. I probably tried it more like 20 or 30 times on those days. And on those other days, maybe one out of four felt like it was going to work. At the X Games during that event, every time I tried it, my spin was consistent. My height was the same. And I felt like something's working now. Something is, there's a technique that I've figured out right here and now that I can do this consistently and do it the same every time. And that's what allowed me to finally make it was that the one time I tried it, the next time I tried it, it was coming around the same.

54:51Tony Hawk:The next time I tried it, it was coming around the same. And then I realized, well, if I just adjust my weight into my back foot a little bit as I spin, I can probably come out of this and not fall forward like I have in the past. That 12th attempt that you end up landing at the X Games, take me through as much of that as you can recall. The event was the best trick event. We got 20 minutes to do whatever we could. Best trick. One trick, that's all it takes. And my best trick at that time in my life was a Varel 720, which is basically a 720 spin with spinning the board an extra 180 which means the board does a 900 and your body does a 720 that was the best trick I knew I'd only done it once in my life and early in the event I made I made a barrel seven that's my best trick where do I go from here and I thought well then I'll start trying 900 so that is the next best trick that I would like to do it really my intention was just to show the crowd oh this is what you know one day this will happen um and like i said once i started spinning it my spin was consistent i was spotting the landing our time ran out i didn't care i just wanted to make the trick i didn't care if it counted you know i was this was my moment this was this was my focus it was my obsession for so many years um when i finally did make it and i was riding up there i really didn't believe that i made it i was riding along the flat I was on the next wall and it wasn't until I looked up and saw my peers all rushing the ramp towards me that I realized that it actually had worked because my I was when I finally looked up I wasn't facing the crowd I was facing the people I was skating with or against and all of them were running towards me and I thought that's it I really did it it happened I can't believe that that's it.

56:44Tony Hawk:And for me, it was just, it was a huge relief. That was it. It was like, oh, it's done. Yeah, I don't have to do it anymore. It's over. That trick, I can put it to bed. That was it. I didn't think of, you know, that people were watching it at home or that that was inspiring somehow. It was just like, oh, finally. How did landing that change your life?

57:08Tony Hawk:people would stop me on the street in airports and and and visibly be be excited you're the guy 900 like how do you even know what 900 is right like this you know these people that are stopping me they don't even know what skateboarding is all about and they know what a 900 is and and you know that that was exciting to me but I didn't realize how much resonance it had and that it inspired kids to pick up skateboarding. I mean, there were a lot of kids that told me they'd started skating the next day. That's amazing to me. You said something to, you know, paraphrasing, but to the effect of, it seemed as if every person in the world saw me land that 900, except though the one person I most wanted to see me land it and that being, you know, your late father.

58:02To what extent did that get to you at the time?

58:07Tony Hawk:Well, my dad passed away in 1995. He was a huge proponent of skateboarding. He was always supportive of what I was doing. He helped to form the sanctioning body for skate events in the late 80s because no one else was taking the incentive to do that. National Skateboard Association, which is now World Cup, which actually runs X Games events. and he saw the first X Games on TV in 1995 and for him that was a huge moment that skateboarding was on ESPN you know they they were giving it some they were giving it some value you know and they were giving it some airtime and he thought wow skating's really come of age it's on ESPN It's on network TV.

58:53Tony Hawk:And for him, that was a big deal. And he just never saw how big it got. And so much of it was because of his support. And so the fact that he didn't get to see the X Games in 1999, that was hard. There was a touching story you tell in your book about him. And, I mean, he's somebody who presumably just meant the world to you. And, I mean, seems to be just a great guy, but beat up his body a decent amount over the years, it seemed like. You know, he survived two heart attacks, was overweight, diabetic. While he was in the middle of his, literally, his second heart attack, you're compelled to open up to him.

59:40Why did you feel that way at the time?

59:42Tony Hawk:Well, it was hard. you know he was not one he was not very emotional and it wasn't like we got a lot of support that way you know it wasn't no one there was no a lot of I love you's or anything like that you know it was just more um I could tell he was proud of what I was doing and I could tell that he was supportive obviously but we just never really bared our souls to each other like that and and um and I wanted him to know that I did appreciate all these things I did because I kind of took it for granted when I was a kid. I mean, at some point I thought it was intrusive that he was doing these things and I couldn't get away from him when I would go to a compete.

1:00:19Tony Hawk:You know, he was the guy that was standing there running the boards or whatever it was. And so, um, you know, when, when it was looking pretty rough, um, he seemed like he might be having a third heart attack. Uh, I wanted him to know that I appreciate him, you know, and then I was sorry if I never didn't, if I didn't show that as much um and it was around that time of the the famous bud light commercials you know like yeah but you can't have my bud light and that's what he told me he said well thanks but you can't have my bud light how well do you recall the conversation you had with him when you were on the road touring and he was you know terminally ill with cancer um well i remember my brother was at a surf event in south africa um he was working for surfer magazine at the time i was on tour in europe and he had just been diagnosed with with terminal lung cancer um and he told us both to to just do our thing don't stop what we're doing for him you know he's gonna he's gonna get through this however he can get through it even if it means the worst ending, but don't stop our lives.

1:01:37Tony Hawk:Like he would feel bad if he made us stop what we were doing. And so when we were home, we made time to be with him as much as possible. And then when things started looking really bad, I canceled the trip because, you know, it was just, I'm not going to go away. I'm not going to be on tour while my dad literally dies. chronic migraine 15 or more headache days a month each lasting four hours or more can make me feel like a spectator in my own life botox on a botulinum toxin a prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine it's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month it's the number one prescribed branded chronic migraine preventive treatment prescription botox is injected by your doctor effects of botox may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing speaking breathing eye problems or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition.

1:02:30Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert-Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor, visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com, or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more.

1:03:01Spring just hits different. One day, cold mud. The next, warm sunshine. But the hardworking men and women in Carhartt don't wait for the forecast to get to work. Hatching roads, clearing trails, planting crops. Their hands turn this season's uncertainty into possibility. So get out there. Spring into action. We've got you covered for whatever the season throws your way. Carhartt, made possible. What's being a father now taught you about your father? How much, how important it is to be present and to be engaged, you know, in what your kids are doing.

1:03:44Tony Hawk:Not just because you're home or on your computer, that doesn't mean you're really with them and you're doing things with them, but to actually take interest and enjoy it and help if you can. You once said that the Olympics need skateboarding more than skateboarding needs the Olympics. Explain why you feel that way. I feel like the Summer Olympic Games don't have a cool factor in the way that they have it with snowboarding in the Winter Games. That's just the truth. I mean, snowboarding in the first winter, the first time snowboarding was in the Winter Games in Nagano, it was the bastard child of the, you know, everyone's making fun of it.

1:04:22Tony Hawk:oh, these guys, they test positive for weed and this and that. And, you know, they look crazy. And it was more like they're being made fun of. Four years later, it's one of the highlights of the programming. And then four years later, it is the biggest event in Vancouver, the snowboarding halfpipe finals. And because, you know, I appreciate Olympic sports. I appreciate athletes. But kids aren't, they don't want to watch ice skating. You know, they don't want to watch swimming. I'm sorry. The kids are, they're of a new generation, action, MTV. They want to watch skateboarding. It seems just from the limited knowledge I have of it that the two issues are, one, a lack of a universally accepted governing body.

1:05:11Tony Hawk:Yeah, I do know enough that the skateboarding industry itself formed a body called the International Skate Federation and have every year held international championships and have chapters of national governing organizations all over the world. So they have proactively gotten that piece in place, knowing that that's what the IOC requires. Right, because to your point, the IOC requires the regularly organized world championships and then a minimum of 70 countries on all five continents. Yeah, so that is all pretty much taken care of. I think the sticking issue is what is the group that will oversee the competitive side?

1:05:58Tony Hawk:Because usually it has to be a group that they've already recognized. and there's no organization that fits directly with skateboarding. I think they were trying to swoop it in with cycling at one point and they're hoping that the ISF can do just that if they get recognized enough. I don't know. It's so much red tape though. And to be honest, I got tired of championing for it. I want it to happen and if they want it to happen, it's going to happen in some form. Skating, even if it's just exhibition form, They need it. They need, like, their audience is not getting any younger. What do you think the likelihood is that skateboarding is in the Olympics eventually?

1:06:41Tony Hawk:I'm pretty certain it'll be in 2020. I would like to see it in 2016. I mean, any, I mean, you have to put a percentage on. A percentage. I'll say 50 % that it's going to happen in 2016 and 100 % in 2020. 100 % in 2020. I think so, yeah. Okay, cool. Really a pleasure, Tony. All right, thank you. Thanks for making the time. Yeah, sure, thanks for having me. Thanks for listening to my interview with skateboarding legend Tony Hawk. To check out more from our chat, go to youtube.com slash Graham Bensinger. And one quick note before you leave, please consider giving the podcast a rating and review. Those go a really long way in helping us reach new listeners.

1:07:28Thanks again. you