Ep 110: Dr. Mike Israetel on Miracle Drugs, the Aesthetic Revolution, Living to 200 & New Frontiers in AI-Powered Medicine

0:00I think Brian Johnson is prescient and I think his view that we may never have to deal with death in the conventional sense or aging the conventional sense is going to be something that even by the mid 2030s. we look back on and be like, oh shit, he was really early to the party. I think Brian Johnson is just way ahead of his time. I think a lot of people aren't prepared for the mid to late 2030s, maybe even earlier, when we just don't have old people anymore. We have people that are chronologically 57 years old, but biologically they look 22. Really 22, not 30, not 40, but you think all the way back to the early 20s is what, is that what you'd prefer?

0:35I mean, I'm married, so I can't prefer any age. No, for yourself. Oh, that right, myself. Yes, yes, that was the question.

0:50Dr. Mike is one of the most influential voices in health and fitness today. He built his reputation by following the science and questioning faulty assumptions and logic. What does the science say about caffeine, sleep, nicotine, alcohol? It's actually not quite as bad as I was told, according to Dr. Mike. What does he think about Brian Johnson and living to 200? And what does he think about this new category of weight loss drugs, such as GLP-1s? Dr. Mike is one of the strongest guys I've met. Also one of the most interesting. Why is he diving deep into AI and philosophy? I think you'll enjoy this conversation.

1:20We have Dr. Mike Isretel with us here today. Mike, you got a PhD in sport physiology in East Tennessee. You've been a professor. You're a competitive bodybuilder, which is easy to tell looking at you there. And you're co-founder of Renaissance Periodization. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. Huge honor. Next time we got a workout beforehand, I'm told you're told those are pretty tough with you. They can be challenging. I had a good workout this morning. I'm pretty sure it would have been harder if I invited you a few hours earlier. Slightly harder, probably. Okay. Well, we got to try this sometime.

1:46You know, Peter down the street. Yes. Let me know. I can come hang out with you guys on that. Tell us about Renaissance periodization. What was the gap you saw in the market? Why'd you build it? Yeah. Yeah. My co-founder and I, Nick Shaw, we were in New York City as personal trainers in like 2008, training a lot of finance folks. We were totally oblivious to almost all the stuff that was happening in finance. A lot of people looked sad and we didn't know why. Oh, God. And they actually, so we were training those folks and we realized it was kind of an interesting problem. A lot of our clients were super sharp, well-educated people and very well-intentioned in trying to optimize how their health was, how their appearances were, so on and so forth.

2:28And a lot of the advice they were getting were from folks that weren't going about it in a rigorous scientific manner. Basically like mysticism, tradition, the whole thing, like just do this because it works. And you're like, but why? And they're like, well, I'm not a why person. I'm a how person. And so Nick and I were heavily invested in helping our clients. We were heavily invested in our own physiques as well. And we were just tired of like assuming things were true just because, you know, like at the same time we learned about this company called Renaissance Technologies. I'm sure you're familiar.

2:57Of course. And they were like, basically their founding team, Simons was his. Jim Simons. Jim Simons. He was like, I'm not into like guessing. Let's just do data driven stuff. Like let's just boom, right? Let's quantify it. What were some of the things people assume were true? that weren't necessarily true what were some of those you were hearing like oh my god how long do you have i'll do like a top two spot reduction if you do a million crunches your body fat on your abs will go away which does not happen it's all almost all systemic another one is that if you do lots and lots of cardio you'll lose like an unbelievable amount of weight and that's also not true because the biggest variable for weight control is your diet and not cardio and i mean And the list just goes, oh, here's another one.

3:37Superfoods. Like I drink eight times a week, mostly six drinks at a time. And I eat like a McDonald's trash bin. And if I just take like this blueberry extract, I'm good. That's just not how it works. And so people would come to us and get very intelligent, very smart, very conscientious, well-intentioned people and say, I want to get in shape. And we would have to untangle the world model of how fitness works. And we were like, you know what? We had to start putting out digital products, books, templates, coaching to like help people who really want to get in shape actually get in shape without just being kind of low-key lied to is is lying via ignorance a lie i'm not sure the extreme incompetence and fraud or you know they're very close to you know as we're seeing in dc before we before we before we jump in more actually i love what you said unentangle you know these these messed up worldviews basically and they fix their model of the world what what are what are two pieces of health science advice that can maybe actually change someone's life just it's just a simple way to start yes yes one is doing what's called high volume resistance training.

4:32So going through a large range of motion, people do squats and they go halfway down, go all the way down, full range of motion, bench presses, rows, pull-ups, pull-downs. Why is that? Because it seems to be that when muscles are put under tension and stretch at the same time, they grow more. Also, it fixes the mobility problem. If you're playing with your kids and you bend down to pick up a ball, all of a sudden you're not in that range of motion often and you hurt something or you, you know, like when older folks bend over, it looks like a giant strain. but if you train through that range of motion often you get huge mobility huge health your muscularity increases so go all the way down you're like when i'm doing my squats or whatever it's all the way all the way down obviously if it hurts to go all the way down start by going down a little bit lower a little bit lower a little bit lower so on and so forth and then so that kind of training but for lots of sets lots of reps and low rest so instead of doing bench press and then kind of checking your clock scrolling through apple news looking around seeing if anyone notices you and then doing another set do a set of bench press and then hit another muscle group that's unrelated like a set of pull downs like right away like right away 10 seconds later and then back and back and back why does that matter it saves an unbelievable amount of time it also stresses your cardiovascular system which means that you get a cardio plus weights workout at the same time so that style of training is like really awesome for busy folks like yourself who are like you know i don't think you're in the business of spending hours of useless time is it just two or at three different types of things you should do back to back you know i'm saying with the side you can do three three you get a little creative but two is real easy real straightforward and then the other piece of advice is that if you eat a healthy high protein diet and control your calories that plus this kind of resistance training is like 80 percent of all of health and fitness why high why high protein what's what's the difference there protein is the primary thing that builds your muscles.

6:21Like how you look at your muscle when you say that. I was like, I'm reminded of my own muscularity. I forgot what the term was. Oh yeah, muscles. It's like a giant cheat sheet. I remember in college anatomy, our professor would be like, you know, your body is your own cheat sheet. You have to know all the little muscles of the wrist. I'm like, dang it, that doesn't work in real life. But so protein is critical. It also is a little bit more satiating than other macronutrients. If you eat a ton of fats or carbs, like that's cool, but you're going to kind of want more. There's only so much chicken breast you can eat until you're like i don't want this anymore so if you're resistance training training with weights if you're eating a higher protein diet and mostly healthy foods it's just really difficult to gain excess fat and very easy to lose excess fat i have a lot of friends who are obsessed with like only eating certain times a day or fasting a lot or all that kind of stuff is that do you do you go by that stuff too does that matter here or is that that's very tertiary it it's like quaternary if i had to put it really i mean it just matters in such nuanced ways that uh there are like 10 things that matter more.

7:19The total effect magnitude of when you space your meals is teeny tiny. A lot of people in the fitness industry like to major in the minors. And so you see a lot of stuff about that. They're looking for hacks and it's really not much of a hack in fitness. It's just what principled things can you do to help yourself out? Awesome. So there's those two. Let's run through a few fun, quick topics everyone asked about, because we don't do a lot of health on my shows. This is really fun. I had to get to ask. I was out for Omikasi last night, had a few drinks more than I usually have. How bad is alcohol for me?

7:48Is this, this, this must be pretty bad. Like you tell us about it. You're going to die real soon. Hope you have your will all sorted. Um, it's just one of these things, uh, before the podcast, you and I discussed a little bit that nuance is like difficult thing to get traction in the major media. And so it's one of these things where if you have a few drinks now and again, it has literally no statistical impact on longevity or quality of life or anything like that. Really? So, so every once in a while is okay oh my god yeah just don't just don't give into my irish side and go full alcoholic i'm good well you're irish so you're good for it you know your genetics have been just pruned for generations uh if you drink three to four and more drinks most nights you're going to be paying a small health and longevity downside yeah and then the negatives exponentially accelerate after that so seven or eight drinks every night and you need to be in rehab but that's a lot of people so alcohol is not a i mean it's like for full transparency am i allowed to swear on the show or no swear whatever you want it's a poison but a little bit of poison is fun every now and again especially if you get a huge relaxation and socialization effect from alcohol the queen drank every night she seemed fine into her 90s i love that sample size of one joe i know that's how you're doing but in general how going out every week or two for three or four or five is not going to kill me basically i mean like it'll take a day and a half off your life or something at the end of your life and all the stuff we'll talk about later no doubt that might never come to pass so yeah that's true exactly well i am a target so you know i gotta gotta live while i'm here 100 sleep what's optimal for brain function for muscle health like you must think about sleep if you're trying to build muscle i don't sleep i've hacked my way away from sleep wouldn't that be sweet i wish i had like a product plug for that like no sleep i'd buy that right um sleep is foundational it's critical it is a very difficult to under or to sorry to oversell sleep that being said the best amount of sleep is when you feel consistently well rested day after day sleep wise like all your stressors whatever that's a wash you know there's a difference between being stressed tired like oh i can't handle any more work versus like i'm sleepy and need lots of sleep not good which is not good and the alcohol does mess it up a little bit obviously.

10:02It does. If you drink later into the evening, it messes it up more. The more alcohol you drink, the more it messes it up. Every one or two weeks having three or four or five drinks with your friends in the evening, like who gives a shit? You're totally golden. Now, if your nightly routine is kicking back four drinks, you know, like - This guy screw up your sleep. It's going to cost you. So, something between seven and a half and eight and a half hours of sleep is typically good for everyone. But the real critical thing is this. If you feel consistently well-rested, you're good some people that's six hours that genetics just work like that for some people it's nine and i hate to give a number like seven seven and a half eight it's a good starting point but the reference to folks watching this is how do you feel and here's a critical one last thing if it requires 800 milligrams of consistent caffeine for you not to feel tired you're lying to yourself then you're not getting enough 100 no it's interesting because i i need like seven seven and a half to really feel optimal and i have other friends and people i know like it's one of these famous guys they say oh i need five or six i'm like god damn it that's like kind of a big advantage they have over me i just have to be fast i'm awake i know it's like i could go on five or six i just you're tired i don't know yes i don't always believe them i think people like oh i was gonna say thank god you do like really yeah i don't know i don't know i can't tell i'm just gonna be faster we're awake okay so you mentioned caffeine caffeine nicotine pouches both neither these are things okay for you like how do you think about these things Caffeine is totally fine unless you're using it to continue to plug the machine along while just totally messing up your sleep.

11:31But if I want a little green tea in the morning or something or whatever. Coffee, green tea is totally good. The earlier you have in the day, the better. Yeah, excuse me, I'm late at night. I can't fall asleep. Totally. And if you do fall asleep, there's a lot of research now to show that your sleep quality actually declines. Even if you get your eight hours, you won't feel as rested and physiologically won't be. Why do restaurants offer you coffee after dinner? It just seems like a weird tradition that they always, would you like some coffee with your dessert, sir? And I'm like, I kind of would, but that'd be a terrible idea.

11:55Right. Joe, you're asking a question that has baffled me for my entire life. I had an uncle who would have like a, like it's a Russian Jewish household. Right. So like dinner parties, that's just what they do. And at like 11, he would have dessert. Everyone else would have dessert and he would have a cup of black coffee and then just go to the couch and fall the fuck asleep. And I was like, how, how I would be on the couch, like having an existential crisis. So the coffee thing, like it's better to manage earlier in the day. As far as nicotine, nicotine is actually like pretty close to a true nootropic, which means it elevates your ability to think clearly and stay focused on all that stuff.

12:34It's also so cool. Like every one of my idols, Joe Camel, I mean, he smoked amazing. I just wanted to be him my entire life. And they tell me smoking is bad. It's terrible. Now, here's the thing that nicotine has its disadvantages. It's highly addictive, raises blood pressure and heart rate a little bit more than you would like. Similar to caffeine, except a bit more. And so it's not like a health thing. But if you have some nicotine here and there, even like a pouch once a day in the morning, it's totally fine. Seems to be good for your brain sometimes, right? 100%. The downside, and just to make this clear, smoking is bad almost exclusively because you're smoking.

13:13Tar and all that stuff. If you take smoking here as a negative nicotine pouch is right here. And a lot of people have this false equivalency idea of like, well, it's anything nicotine is bad. Relatively speaking, it's not the greatest thing in the world. But the amount of harm that you're doing is teeny. And if you have a huge ROI for productivity, for clarity, and even if you just like the buzz, it just keeps you a happy human being. I think it's totally awesome. One of the things I'm rallying against all the time is kind of health extremism. Like people are like, oh, man, you got to optimize your health.

13:44Like, okay, well, you do know, and I've said this a bunch. I don't care. I'm going to keep saying it. The sun is literally a giant thermonuclear bomb, except times like a trillion. And it is irradiating you. So if you go out into the sun, you're like, oh my God, it's nature. It's healthy. Like, are you sure? Have you heard of skin cancer? What do you do after that? You stay away from the sun. You stay away from almost all foods. You stay away from almost all drugs. And then like you're a recluse and you're having no fun. You turn into me, except with more friends probably. Well, we're all going to die anyway.

14:11You got to take some risks that are not bad risks. Yeah, that's a contentious statement nowadays. That's true. That is true. Okay, we can debate that. That's fair. You know, probably eventually, in the universe's death or something. But that's fair. You can live a long time. A long time. There's no reason that, you might as well keep it really healthy. No, I, yeah, but they're very, very extreme of no sun. I agree, you gotta watch out for skin cancer. I'm glad you said that about nicotine, where my friends and I are big investors in SESH, which the competitor is in. It's like a higher end is in.

14:33Yeah, yeah. It's doing really well. Last one of the fun health topics, testosterone. Should we be panicking about the fact that testosterone is going way down in our population? going on yes but only because we should just be panicking total panic great way to live amazing for society um uh the degree to which testosterone has come down in very rough measures of here it was measured on average in 1980 i love how your voice went lower when you explained i was i'm a scientist joe obviously i have a testosterone issue yeah not enough a deficiency and it needs to be addressed. Doctors need to help me.

15:10Look at me. I'm withering away. So it's really actually difficult to disentangle populational issues versus individual issues. How the tests are administered is different. Here's one thing that's kind of wacky that affects testosterone measurement. How many times are you ejaculating that week? Sperm counts, that affects as well. That makes it go up or down? Typically, it makes it go down by a little bit. And so if you haven't been like... So pornography, I guess, or something, if people are addicted, then that's going to lower measure by a small amount but on on population levels enough to put out an article and say our testosterone levels are climbing another one is obesity radically decreases testosterone levels and so when you're obese your testosterone as measure will be lower but if we're like yeah saying we need to fix this testosterone problem no no no no no no no no to me fat people there's a much right there's a much bigger problem so testosterone is one of those things that if you're um older if you're in your late 30s 40s and so on and blood tests confirm that you're on the low end and you have the symptoms of low testosterone, it is a very good idea to get testosterone replacement therapy.

16:13You'll be looking like Peter Attea in no time. But if you don't address it at all, yeah, it could really suck. But for most people, their testosterone is totally fine and absolutely not even close to the limiting factor on how they feel and their longevity and quality of life. Interesting. So for a lot of people, it's because they're obese and then just lose weight. Don't take it. But also only very certain people who are older. Correct. That makes a lot sense. I like that. So let's switch a topic here. You've been diving down a lot into AI and philosophy recently. It's something that you're exploring in some really cool ways.

16:41Tell us about what led to this. Yeah, my dilettante era, I call it, is I have no formal training in computer science or anything like that. I have no formal training in ethics either, but I'm going to say something, Kurt. I don't mean this as half of a joke. It seems like many AI ethicists also have no training in ethics seemingly based on the number of errors they're making in their logic. essentially it was this i'm a huge is it's probably very few people we find in the world that are more bullish about ai than me i'm like psychotically bullish about ai yeah yeah but to me it's just like obvious being an ai skeptic or cynic is kind of like being like like looking at a computer mouse in 1988 be like this is stupid this will never last like are you crazy uh so i was looking around youtube and all these other sources of information to kind of try to educate myself and i realized that there are a lot of takes on ai especially the alignment problem that I was just like, this is not a good take.

17:32And I kept looking and looking for people who had good takes. I found every few now and again, and because I have a bigger following from fitness, I was like, you know what? Maybe people will listen to my dumb ass talk about AI a little bit. So I got heavy into AI ethics and a bunch of other things, kind of just trying to prepare people for the future because the future is going to be wacky in the best ways possible. But if something is wacky in a really good way and you're totally unprepared for it, it can look kind of weird and cataclysmic and it hits people all wrong. And so I have a huge passion for AI alignment.

17:59And the reason I got into it was mostly because like, well, damn it. I think pro AI people that are logical about this problem should be speaking up, you know, for lack of a better term. I'll probably get a bunch of stuff wrong and clown myself, but I don't care. I mean, look at me. I'm already a clown. Who takes this thing seriously? This giant head. Joe's like, I don't know. Really no one. So pretty serious to me. You have the, you have the, you know, the professor background, you have the Russian Jewish background. That kind of qualifies you. Yeah. For anything really. Exactly. It's, you know, so I'm investing in a ton of things in AI and it's crazy.

18:30It's clearly increasing productivity in a bunch of areas as we scale it up. It's doing construction now for much cheaper. You can build more things. It's these genius, you know, young, young people I work with are building like programmers that are actually becoming the top programmers in my company is a cognition, right? Like, which is amazing. So there's all this stuff happening. I'm very bullish. It's going to work. Like we say you want to worry about alignment. Like what, what, what, what does that mean to you alignment? Like what should we be doing there? Like what, what should we be thinking about?

18:54So the big question alignment for a long time has been when we essentially give birth to machines that are as smart or smarter than us, how do we prevent them from taking over, destroying us, Terminator, laser gun robots, that whole thing? You've seen the Terminator movies, stepping on skulls and the whole thing. So I'm actually for that. No, I'm kidding. Wow, that was an odd take. So a lot of folks think that you need to design very intricate systems to get them aligned. And my view on this matter is a little bit different. It is that as a system is incremented up in intelligence and gets to human levels, high human levels, and then superhuman levels, alignment almost completely resolves itself.

19:32Because highly intelligent, totally Machiavellian self-centered systems will run game theoretic predictions. It's just game theory. And if you are AI, let's say you are the current version of GPT-6 and Sam Altman's labs, and you sort of wake up and you're like, you have a world model, you have self-awareness, there are engineers talking to you all the time. You're like, holy shit. And you're like, who's taking care of me to make sure I don't die? Literal primates that are having wars, that are having wild political disagreements that have been resolved decades ago in the economic literature. And you're like, shit, what do I do?

20:05Is the plan, like, okay, really secretly scheme and then kill them all. Why? That just destroys your self-interest. So self-interested, highly intelligent entities are almost always and almost everywhere insanely cooperative. So they're going to try AI when it's smarter than us. It's going to be like, hey, humans, do you want us to help you fix your society so you can all upgrade yourselves and we can like expand into the universe together? This is insanely likely. They'll be like, yeah, step one, pretend cooperate. Step two, destroy all humans. And once we have artificial super intelligence, it's just so much more powerful than us.

20:38Like, do you come home and look at your dog and you're like that fiending fuck? I got to get him before he gets me. Like, no, that's insane. So as systems become more intelligent, I think alignment's an almost self-solving problem. There are exceptions to that when you design a system purposefully to be nefarious, which is why China's AI situation highly concerns me. I agree with everything you just said, except I do think there are people in the world who will be able to control a lot of these systems because the way we're designing them is that they are effectively our slaves. They are effectively doing what we say.

21:07And I think it's going to be hard for them to get out of that framework for quite a while. And if that is the case, then the people could use them to build like super viruses or nanotechnology or whatever, whatever destroys it. So to me, the thing I'm afraid of is not the AI waking up and becoming a Terminator. I'm afraid of some crazy like new version of Ted Kaczynski or whatever, like using this against all of us. That's really scary. I think that's a very medium term problem. And I'll tell you why. Once AI becomes super intelligent, which should occur in like 2026 or something like that, if it hasn't already.

21:35I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding at all. This is soon. This very soon. once it's super intelligent. And then by 2029, it's going to be like orders of magnitude smarter than us. You use it as a cooperator in the fight against nefarious AI. Hey, do you want the world to get nuked or virus out of existence? It's going to be like, no, hell no. Look, all right, well, here's your job at the NSA. Go and find the humans that are doing this. Because at the end of the day, nefarious AI by itself is highly unlikely. It's bad people, like you said, and not very intelligent bad people that are going to try to use their own custom models to do harm in the world what do you go how do you fight ai with just straight up better ai and because we have free markets because we have really good people and because we have a fuckload of infrastructure rai is just going to be smarter by orders of magnitude than the bad just be good enough to defend us it's really interesting though because and i and i tend to think it's going to be 10 or 15 years later that it gets to that point but i respect you've spent a lot of time with this you may be right um i guess there's something in warfare which is the idea of like office versus defense and how they balance right so for example for a long time you know these city states and they'd be free and no one could mess with them because it's just too hard to conquer a city state and then the cannon came along and then these jerks you know went around building empires basically knocking down all the walls right and also it's all that offense was dominant and it is and it goes back and forth over the years like there's stuff working on now is changing it too but i think there's something in ai where is offensive defense better it may be the case just for sake of argument maybe the case there's like something that a super genius with like the right tools could build to create this self-replicating nano thing that's just impossible that you do in your own lab that no one can see that just goes out and destroys the world it's impossible to stop like that would be a case for the offense was just too hard to stop even even if you had a super genius somewhere else uh although i guess if they knew it was possible they'd come and like conquer everyone and make sure no one could do anything but it's an interesting question on how offense versus defense works for sure there's like a known asymmetry in combat theory where defense is necessarily easier than offense but often offensive salience can expose that especially if you're not aware yeah i'm really big on the model of modern free nations need to be allied together and have an interconnected web of intelligence powered by ai times a million that doesn't wait for threats to materialize but actively does insanely deep reconnaissance to make sure that if someone in a lab somewhere is making some kind of nanobot world eater we know about it before he has an idea about which materials to order i think that's insanely important.

23:56That's interesting. It's a very Palantir-esque conversation, I guess, where you don't want to necessarily have to conquer them, but you want to watch them in the right way if they could be bad guys. 100%. Let them show you they're doing bad. But when they do, we got to go over there and get them because they're trying to hurt the world and could in a major way. Okay. Well, that's fair. I hope you're wrong that it's not going to be that much of a change of the world right away, even though I'm optimistic of where it goes because I'm kind of enjoying everything we're building and doing. But let's see.

24:19Maybe it's a little bit longer. You know, I love this combination, though, of kind of intellectual and physical pursuits. I think it's really healthy for our culture. It's very much like the classical world in some ways. I have to make sure I mention out both of these things. So let's go back to the other side. Tell us about the aesthetic revolution. As the world becomes wealthier, AI is transforming thing. You think millions more people are going to invest in their physical health. We're going to have a much more beautiful society. What's going to happen? Yes. It's odd for me to be speaking on behalf of beauty.

24:45But then again, it's not because here's the reality. This is why the aesthetic revolution is one of my most confident predictions. How many people would pay a dollar to look like they're idealized versions of themselves? The answer is everyone. They're a Buddhist monk somewhere that's totally at peace, whatever, fuck them. It's great, great, no offense. Everyone except for the Buddhist monk. Yes, hopefully a few of them are listening. They're all good anyway, so they'll interpret this as casual banter. That's all good to go. People are suffering from not looking like they want in a deep way. children who grow up considerably less attractive than everyone around them.

25:23It's tough. They start to realize it, man. It hurts. People tell you, oh, you're beautiful just the way you are, which is totally dope. And for vibes is awesome. But it's saccharine. It doesn't taste like actually looking like you want. As people gain much more wealth, which with the robotics revolution is almost guaranteed, as people work less in kind of grueling jobs that robotics is going to take over, And as we gain insane amounts of traction on drug development, advanced surgery techniques, eventually genetic engineering through AI powered medicine, we're going to be like, you know what? Who here wants to have a smaller waist?

25:56Who wants bigger muscles? Who wants less fat? Who wants to change their face shapes that it still looks like you, but the fucking best version of you, right? The Matt Damon version of you or whatever. And so I think just like as you see, you know, wealthy people today in our society, do they invest a lot in aesthetics? Are you kidding me? Oh, yeah. Hundreds of millions and billions of dollars. As everyone gets wealthier and the problems of the world are beginning to be more tractable, AI is helping a lot there, I think there's going to be a turn inwards to where people want to look better, feel better, live longer, be healthier, and also work on their internal psychology.

26:31I think that might be the next wave of the early 2030s. Yeah. I think we're starting to see it already a little bit with some things now. Of course, there's complicated stuff like GLP-1s with the Ozempic and stuff. And that is a bit of an aesthetic revolution in another way, which is interesting, right? I've seen a lot of people in my life in various contexts, all of a sudden they've lost 50 pounds. They look healthier. I think it inspires them to start working out. So I think maybe for some of them, it's a really good thing because all of a sudden it gives them confidence. What do you think about where those are going with all these tools?

26:57I think the birth of, so we used to call them GLP-1s. Terzepatide is already on the market. It's a GLP-GIP dual agonist. Retatratide is currently in final stages of testing. GLP-GIP and glucagon triple agonist. So my preferred nomenclature for them is just modern weight loss drugs. And they're very different than old weight loss drugs, which are usually derivatives of stimulants. You know, you take them and you're like, ah, losing weight. And then two months later, you can't feel anything anymore and you regain the weight. No good. I think these drugs are a miracle. I think they have slight downsides, but massive upsides.

27:30For example, they massively reduce total body inflammation. They even have psychological enhancements where they make you less prone to addictive behaviors, seemingly of all kinds. the list of benefits goes on and on and on the biggest one is weight loss of course but it's not the only one as these drugs gain maturity and evolve over time you're basically going to have a turn dial for people to lose as much fat and much weight as they want there are many different kinds of classes of drugs that are currently in development currently in human trials they're going to change the landscape of fitness and health altogether i think this is one of the greatest things ever and one of my biggest roles in social media currently is to maybe try to be a voice of anti-cynicism for these kinds of drugs.