Clothing 101: What's Really Touching Your Skin w/ Hannah Dunning

21:17And they're animal studies, which even the chemical companies will say don't count because they don't want us

21:22Hannah Dunning:to prove that these chemicals are making us sick. And if they're not allowed to use animals, that's good for them because how are we going to prove it? Right. Okay, so switching to 100 % cotton underwear, I think, is an easy option, especially for guys. Like, I've seen a bunch of 100 % cotton underwear out there, but are you not even liking the 100 % cotton? I don't like how I sound when I say this. It would be so much cooler if I was like, yes, cotton is such a great option. But from the studies, we have a lot of suppliers. In fact, the majority of the studies we have show that the suppliers are adding the most amounts of harmful additives to cotton.

22:00Hannah Dunning:Well, then we're really in trouble because all the better choice things out there, I think, are the 100 percent organic cotton. Well, or GOTS certified organic cotton is the cream of the crop. So you're good with organic cotton. GOTS certified organic cotton. This is where my job stinks because I'm telling you oftentimes they're adding bad chemicals to cotton, which is true. You can look at the studies. On top of it, cotton has been seen to absorb a ton of chemicals, including phthalates and parabens. And these supply chains run wild because we don't have laws around the chemicals. So imagine, like imagine for food if we didn't have the FDA.

22:38Food is still super messed up. I am oftentimes not a fan of the FDA. OK, but think of if we didn't have it, what would be in our food?

22:46Hannah Dunning:OK, well, I'll tell you with supplements, since I make supplements, there are not many regulations. And so it's the wild, wild west out there. You can put whatever you want in those capsules, really. No one's really regulating it. And so you're saying it's sort of the same thing with the textiles. People are spraying whatever. They're putting whatever on it. OK, so I'm going to rephrase my question. No, it's the worst, too. I'm like, OK, not cotton. And even organic cotton, by the way, they can still add chemicals. The organic cotton just has to do with the growing process. OK, so you don't like 100 % organic cotton underwear for guys.

23:19I think it depends on the company, and I would highly encourage people to talk to the company they're buying from, which sounds crazy, but it's actually how we should be shopping anyways from a consumption standpoint. We should be asking companies what they're putting in their products. And if they don't know, that's not good on their side. They have, in my opinion, a moral obligation to know what ingredients they're putting in their clothes or what ingredients their manufacturers are using. You know, I can list some like Harvest and Mill uses USDA organic cotton in the United States. They are not adding harmful chemicals in their supply chain.

23:51I know because I have asked them and talked to them and they have documentation. So you have to ask. The reason why GOTS certification is what I oftentimes recommend is because it's a third party certification that's not perfect, but tests for over 100 additional chemicals in the finished product. So that is more of a safeguard. It would be, you know, the equivalent of having like a certification on food that's been tested for glyphosate. Right. So that's would be my top recommendation is GOTS certified organic. The cotton industry is a very, very dirty industry. People think, oh, but, you know, cotton is just better even though the pesticides are terrible.

24:30But we have to realize that the amount of pesticides and things and chemicals that they are spraying on our cotton is ending up in our water. It is most impacting low income communities, which are farming communities, as well as inner city communities for people who can't afford to buy better. So low income people are being adversely impacted more by our clothing than we are. So the cotton argument is easy in terms of I could sit here and be like, yep, go buy cotton. It's better. But that's just from the data we have and the processes involved. Not true.

25:03Hannah Dunning:Everything that you're saying, I feel like correlates with the food as well. Like the low income people are being affected, like you said, in the farming communities, the inner cities. And so it's like all these bells are going off in my head of, duh, that makes sense for the clothing as well. And so one of my frustrations in the beauty industry, because they're the endocrine disruptors, they're the phthalates, the parabens, all these things that we're talking about, the xenoestrogens. I feel like the kids, the babies get way more better choice products than like the teenagers and the adults. And I'm like, well, we need the better products too.

25:37Hannah Dunning:And so are we seeing this in the baby clothing industry that there's more options for them than the others? Absolutely. That does make sense. I'm glad they started with baby options because of how small their skin surface area is versus their weight. So they cannot process, you know, not even considering that their reproductive system is developing, their immune system. So they just cannot handle even small, small amounts of chemicals the way an adult body can. And it's bad for adults, too, but definitely babies. So I'm glad to see better options. I was in Target just the other day, and most of the options I saw were either GOTS organic certified or Ocotex.

26:15They have done such a good job. I would push Target even further, and I would say if I'm a company of that size, selling primarily into families, to parents, moms, I would require for all clothing at least an Ocotex certification. And all Okotex means is that takes a hundred of the most popular harmful chemicals in the supply chain. So it's not perfect because you can still have Okotex plastic like we talked about. And I wouldn't recommend that. But it's a really good start to reduce toxic exposure. I think Target has an ethical and moral burden to require that for all clothes.

26:50Hannah Dunning:OK, well, I was there the other day and saw a ton of baby clothes, like you said. And I was so excited, like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. but I have a 12 year old and there was not much for the 12 year old. And then there was like, I don't think anything in the adult size. Oh my gosh. Trust me. I get so, my blood pressure, my levels skyrocket when I'm in Target for that reason. They're doing better with babies. They need to do better with bigger kids and teenagers and yes, adults, all of the above. We were talking about this before the podcast. There's a great business opportunity for someone out there who wants to get into fashion to make clothes for older kids up until the teen years that are clean.

27:26It's a huge gap. There's way fewer option for those kids. And that's a huge issue because of puberty and development. When your hormones are at some of their most vulnerable is when you're like 12, 13 years old and your body is actually reading genetic code for development. This goes into, you know, the study of epigenetics and all kinds of genetic factors. But when you introduce some of these harmful endocrine disruptors during that precious time, we are seeing impacts downstream for that child's life based on exposure they had during their teen years. It's a very big deal. And we do need companies like Target to pay attention.

28:04I'll also say Costco has been making great strides in some of their departments. I just made a video about this. I was in Austin in their Costco and saw towels, bath towels. you know, all dots, 100 % cotton, organic certified for like$12,$11. That's awesome.

28:24Hannah Dunning:Okay. So this seems so overwhelming. Yeah. Because I'm thinking, well, okay, I have a 12-year-old who is going through puberty. I would love to get her good clothes, but I look and there isn't anything. And so this is for all the moms that are in the same spot of like, yeah, I can't find it. And there are a few places. Like I should not say there's nothing because H &M, actually I found some things the other day. and Gap I found. Let's be real, teenagers are hard to please too. They are hard. So I could start though with just doing 100 % organic cotton, GOT certified underwear and bras. Yes, I would start there.

28:59I have options on my shop. My, you can always DM me too and I can help if you, anyone can send me companies and I can tell you what I think of them. Start with the bras and underwear for sure for both genders. I would focus on sleep too, especially for the teen years, what they're laying in and on.

29:15Hannah Dunning:Okay, can we talk about sleep? Because you said something about bamboo. So a lot of people love to sleep in bamboo sheets. Yeah. Is that not a good thing? Well, traditional bamboo, which is about 95 % of all bamboo on the market, is processed using carbon disulfide. There's entire books about how toxic this chemical is. It's arguably one of the most toxic chemicals in the supply chain for fashion. I would avoid it as much as I can or could. Now, there are other bamboo options where they use better processes like eco vero is one there's also clean bamboo which they're again they're i think they're using enzymes to break it down instead of carbon disulfide so there's options i would highly recommend tensile lya cell over bamboo options because tensile lya cell gets that same stretchy it's a cellulose fiber but it's produced by lensing and they use only one non-toxic chemical and it's all documented.

30:11So it's not 100 % natural, but no option is perfect out there anyways because our supply chains are so crazy. So at least it's documenting the process and you know they're not adding anything crazy. But I have a sheet recommendation. I very rarely shout out a specific company, but I just went to Japan and actually got to see how they make their bedsheets using real indigo. It's called Izome, A-I-Z-O-M-E. World's best sheets by far. They're about$400, so they're expensive, but they'll last your entire life. And when you sleep on them, that natural indigo that they're using can actually, they have been cleared by the FDA as a medical device because the indigo interacts with your skin biome.

30:55Hannah Dunning:Most of it's like antimicrobial, antibacterial. You know, samurai warriors used to wear real indigo under their, you know, armor to prevent infection. So a lot of it is just helping your body heal faster. But if I had anyone in my life who was, you know, battling eczema or even like a cancer diagnosis or something where I just wanted every area of their life to be supported, I would be getting them these sheets. And that would be the same with a teenager if you're able to. If you're not able to afford$400 pairs of sheets, which most people can't, there is, I think it's called Purely Organic at Costco.

31:29They were selling like$40 sheets that were GOTS certified organic with non-toxic dyes. So that's a great, more accessible option. But sleep is, as we all know, when we detox the most, especially in the teenage years, we need those hours for our body to clear chemicals that we're inevitably going to come into contact with. So I would prioritize underwear, bras and sleep to start. And then pajamas then, obviously. Pajamas, yes. I'm a fan of just a big t-shirt, a big Gats Organic t-shirt. And, you know, you don't have to be super cute. But I think Pact has some PJs that are actually, you know, pretty cute.

32:07There's some options out there. Again, linked on my shop. Sorry to be salesy, but it's just easy to have it all in one place. But yeah, if you want to sleep in a t-shirt, do it or naked, do it. That's actually how we're meant to sleep.

32:18Hannah Dunning:But, you know, depends on if you're comfortable with it. Right. OK, so if people have bamboo sheets and bamboo pajamas, organic bamboo, even they'll claim. Are we ditching these? I would say there's no real such thing as organic bamboo just because of the way that it's processed. You actually can't say in the final product organic bamboo. It can only be used as a marketing term. OK, so annoying. Good to know. So I wouldn't panic by any means. Like, listen, just this goes back to feeling overwhelmed. best thing you can do is just slowly start reducing your exposure levels right and if you're obsessed with your bamboo pair of sheets like that's not going to be the thing that like does you in right right it's just good to slowly start eliminating the most important things like your underwear your bra and eventually your sheets so no i wouldn't recommend it but i also don't recommend panic panic is the worst thing we can do for our immune system right like yeah biologically been shown.

33:12Hannah Dunning:So, okay. Well, I'm thinking moms that are listening to this, I don't want to overwhelm them because I feel like a lot of moms are just trying to get enough fruits and veggies in their kid's diet or reducing some sugary snacks or trying to get them to sleep a decent amount or trying to get them outside to get sunlight. And so now they're like, oh my heck, now I've got to worry about clothing and sheets and what they're sleeping in. yep so is this the first thing they should turn to is it like we're on the health journey yeah is this you know what i mean yeah totally not overwhelm people yeah totally it's a great question there's two answers to this to anyone listening first and foremost this is why we get loud because we shouldn't have to be detectives is what i always say to make sure we don't have life-altering chemicals in our clothes so the more we talk about it the more accessible easy options pop up like finding the towels in Costco.

34:03So even when you're overwhelmed, don't keep don't give up. Right. Don't keep that from, you know, allowing you to talk about it and asking companies you really like to make the switch. That's huge. I work with these companies. I work in supply chains when they hear feedback from consumers about what they want. That is a massive way to impact this industry. And it will change and it is changing. Like most of these companies aren't like, you know, evil and trying to make us sick, in my opinion. Like, I think a lot of them just don't know.

34:31Hannah Dunning:They just don't know what I'm finding in the food industry. They've never had an obligation to know what they're putting in their own clothes. So they've never asked. So keep getting loud. We're also working on government regulation right now. I just wanted to ask you about this as well. Yeah. OK, so tell me because I know you were in Texas for some of this. So tell me what you're working on. Yeah. Well, so the most important thing we're doing is we're going to put up a bill requiring ingredient disclosure law for textiles. Oh, that's amazing. All they have to do is list the chemicals they're intentionally adding.

35:03Full stop. You can argue all day long what chemicals are bad, what levels are bad, what levels impact what. But what you can't argue is that we shouldn't have a fundamental right to informed consent. That is an American pillar. We should have a right to know what we're purchasing and putting on our kids. We have a right to choose. So that's what we're going up for. Every mom's life should be made easy because there should just be an ingredient list of what chemicals. We already see this in states like New York. They have a period underwear law for period care, and they have to list all the chemicals.

35:37It's already been done. Interesting.

35:39Hannah Dunning:Yeah. Okay, well, I know people have fought for this, a similar bill in food. Yes. Like, just let us know what fertilizers have been used. It's never been passed. Well, it's less complicated than food in that we're not going after fertilizers or anything like that when we're talking like cotton to start. We're just saying additives. So any additional chemicals you're using for performance capabilities or otherwise, list them. Because that's where we're finding the most harmful things. Okay. So it's not going to be like list of glyphosate that's been sprayed on the cotton. Although it should be, but that's down the road.

36:12For now, it's not an unreasonable burden and it's already being done in, again, states like New York and Virginia just passed the same law. So like we have a precedent here and it's ridiculous that they're allowed to not tell us what's in it. So I just want the moms to know that we're working our butts off to make sure that they have better options in the near future. So hang in there. I'm a mom, too. I have two little kids. I'm prioritizing food first. I'm prioritizing, you know, soaps and lotions and I'm prioritizing underwear. That's my number one thing. And then socks too. We have studies where kids socks tested very high and often for BPA and BPS, which are two things we don't want anywhere near our kids' body, but especially in important areas like on their feet.

36:56So I would say socks and underwear for littles. Q for Quinn is my favorite. Again, I don't usually do shout. I'm not being paid by them to shout them out. I just put my boys in them that my kids have sensory sensitivities. and that is the only underwear that they will wear and it happens to be GOT certified organic cotton as well as their socks. So start with their socks and underwear, take it slow, work on reducing holistically with everything in their life and keep getting loud. That's the best we can do and moms are the greatest threat to chemical companies and companies not wanting to change.

37:29They're scared of moms.

37:30Hannah Dunning:Well moms are the people making the changes. I mean, just look at Kellogg's just announced they would get rid of their artificial dyes. But if you remember a couple of years ago, I was at the rally trying to petition Kellogg's to get rid of their artificial dyes. And two years later, it happened. And so it is true. We need to stay loud. But how do we stay loud in that industry? Because I feel like there's a bunch of people in the food industry trying to make change. But in the clothing, it's so new that there's not a lot of people. It's lonely. There's a lot you can do, though. So number one, like I said, reach out to those companies you'd like to see better options at.

38:07Your favorite companies, your favorite blanket companies, right? Your favorite undergarments, your kids' sportswear. What are you guys using in these? What chemicals are you using? Even those questions pop up on their radar of, oh, people are starting to pay attention. We probably need to do our due diligence. That has more impact than you'd know. But the second thing is I have a website. It's called www.safeclothing.org. You can sign petitions that are live there. And we take those petitions to D.C. and we bring them to lawmakers. And it's been a huge aspect of why we're actually pushing this ingredient transparency bill forward is because moms have asked for it.

38:41So that's a direct way you can get involved. And then, of course, social media. I've noticed the influencer community is really powerful too because they oftentimes don't know. And they're the ones doing like fashion hauls. Like every time I see an influencer trying on, you know, her hundred Amazon packages, one obviously terrible for the environment and like the planet. But I'm really worried about her body. Genuinely. I love DMing them. I don't want to shame them or embarrass them. I genuinely just want them to be aware of like, hey, you know, the things you're putting on your body, especially fast fashion, statistically has been shown to have very high levels of chemicals.

39:21Hannah Dunning:And like, OK, so I have a lot of friends that love their Amazon clothes. So I actually had this discussion with a friend the other day and she was like, yeah, but I wear good underwear and bras, so I don't really worry about the other stuff. I mean, that's her choice and that's OK. I wouldn't recommend that based, again, on the data we have back. Look, supply chains are very complicated monsters. They are. And they are in the food industry and supplement industry. That's right. So, you know, no supply chain is going to be perfect. But the bigger a supply chain and the faster it functions, the higher the likelihood of things being in there we really don't want if they're not focusing on making it better.

39:59Right. Like if you had a big company who worked fast, but their whole thing was like making non-toxic clothes. OK, you know, maybe they're looking into it. But I am telling you, most of the clothes you're buying are, again, Wild Wild West style when it comes to what's inside of them. And again, I'm in the supply chains. I can tell you from the testing we see.

40:19Hannah Dunning:OK, so I know I'll get this question. Does washing them really good not take care of the problem? It depends on the chemical. So like formaldehyde, for example, we have good evidence that it greatly reduces the amount of formaldehyde just by washing. So, yes, wash your new clothes for sure. But other chemicals like phthalates and parabens and BPA slash BPS show no meaningful difference when you wash. These chemicals are hydrophobic. This goes all the way back to the perfect storm. They love oil. They hate water. So they're going to cling to those fibers. That's also why we're seeing high levels of chemicals in cotton, because if there are chemicals around the cotton, even it's absorbing them.

40:59Hannah Dunning:Interesting. So washing and then the other thing I would add is, no, it's not going to make a difference for the chemicals we're really worried about. And then most people are introducing terrible chemicals in their laundry detergent. Yeah, that's right. So, I mean, you had Branch Basics on. I use their concentrate for all of my laundry. and because that's critical in not introducing more parabens and more phthalates and fragrance and all of that. Okay. So can you explain to me why there are so many chemicals being added into the clothes? Because I get the crops, like the food industry, I get that, you know, they're keeping the weeds and the pests and everything.

41:35Hannah Dunning:So I get that. But why, after the material's been made, why are we adding things? Yeah. And just side note for the crops point, likely most of the pesticide residue is washed out. you know, there may be trace levels. I wouldn't be super freaked out about that. I'm more worried about what it's doing to our water supply. Right. And then and the chemicals they're adding on top, which is the second point is why are they adding them mostly for performance capabilities? So when the plastic revolution happened, we'll call it, we got really used to functionality. So every piece of clothing has to be perfect.

42:07It has to perform perfectly. It has to be stain resistant, sweat resistant, et cetera. And feel comfy. Exactly. All those marketing terms are code words for oftentimes very harmful chemicals. Like water repellent, that's ding, ding, ding, probably PFAS in a lot of cases, which terrible, terrible.

42:26Hannah Dunning:So a lot of times they do have components that give clothes certain capabilities. You know, they did a uniform study for kids' uniforms, just the cotton polos 100 of the ones they tested from u.s and canada had pfaz detected because they want stain resistant capabilities in the cotton right because i mean think about it a mom buying a school uniform you don't know of course you want stain resistant so they added something they added something in right there's a cost to to the benefits but here's the deal a lot of the chemicals we also see aren't intentionally added like bpa bps there's no real benefit to having BPA in clothing.

43:06It's just that oftentimes the plastic we're using, the plasticizers and other capabilities that it has include chemicals like BPA, which is why they're often found in socks because we want that stretchy, plasticky, right feel. And when we're talking about something like BPA, it's pretty prevalent in a lot of the especially recycled polyester clothes we see. We have data and studies showing recycled polyester is far worse chemically than virgin. Let's take a quick break to hear from our show sponsor.

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44:22Hannah Dunning:They also offer undyed options for the purest, most natural fabric, plus plant dyed pieces that add beautiful color without synthetic dyes or harsh chemicals. Q4Quinn has stylish basics for the entire family without compromising on comfort or health. Use code JUSTINGREDIENTS for 10 % off your order at q4quinn.com. Now back to the show. okay so let's talk about that because i know quite a few brands that like market like we use recycled plastic water bottles yeah to make our clothes so you're saying that's even worse yeah that's why this whole sustainability movement upsets me so much because it was born under you know for a lot of people such great intentions like we want to do better for planet we want to reuse things we have i totally get it but the thing is if it's not good for our body it's not good for the planet and vice versa.

45:16So recycling plastic takes more chemicals to break it down. So think about it. Like if you have a plastic water bottle, which is just 100 percent, you know, chemicals to break it down, you need more chemicals. And unfortunately for us, a lot of those chemicals are harmful to bodies. So if you see recycled polyester, run for the hills. I don't care what kind. I don't care who's making it. Do not put that on your body, in my opinion. Okay. So that's a good place to start is just avoid polyester. I think avoiding plastic generally is a really good solid place to start. Like I did this when I was cleaning out my closet.

45:49I have cotton t-shirts, this whole bunch of them, cotton jeans, you know, whatever. And then I have a lot of plastic. I just started with the plastic because I know without a shadow of a doubt that plastic is not good for my body. Cotton, who knows? Like I don't know what chemicals are in my cotton because there's no requirement to list them. So got rid of plastic and slowly replaced my cotton with like a GOT certified organic over time.

46:11Hannah Dunning:I would love to see your closet. what textiles are we using? Yeah. What do we have in your closet? Well, first and foremost, I come from a place of privilege and that this is my job. And I have companies who send me, you know, the upper echelon of the world's best materials and products. So my closet is unrealistic and it would be unfair of me to be like, this is the closet you should go for. I appreciate you saying that. Yeah. I would like to acknowledge that it is a perk of this job. My job is very hard. I don't sleep a lot. It's stressful. I have people coming from me for all directions because I'm not delivering fun news.

46:45Yeah. Right. You know, in a perfect world, I'd be doing something a lot more uplifting and fun.

46:51Hannah Dunning:Yeah. But I've been placed on this earth to change an industry. And so that's what I'm doing. Back when I started my journey, I wasn't getting gifted anything or, you know, I was just a mom wanting to clean my closet out. And so I can speak from that place. And I can tell you that for sure, the best clothes I could find were organic cotton, Like got certified if I was lucky because it's just an easier transition for companies to make. You know, it's accessible for them. It's not cost prohibitive. So there's more organic cotton options. So I would start with that. Regular wool is great. I would ask companies if they superwash without getting into the details.

47:27Superwash basically just means coating it in plastic. So coating the wool in plastic. It's not the end of the world. I would just, you know, avoid it if I could, if I'm trying to be healthier when it comes to my wardrobe. Okay, that's good to know because I thought all wool was good. Unfortunately, no. Again, not fun part of my job saying that. The other fabric I really love, and all of these fabrics have deep, storied, colorful histories too, but hemp is epic. I mean, we have a huge hemp stigma in this country. It's a wild history, but hemp is incredible. It's great for the land. It's one of the best regenerative crops we have access to.

48:05It's cheap. It uses virtually no water. You don't have to spray it. for clothing because it's pest resistant in most cases. So it's very affordable and it has incredible capabilities. Like it's again, antimicrobial. Like I have, there's a company called Young Maven. It starts with a J. It's kind of a funky Young Maven. They make hemp clothing in the United States. I have a hemp sports bra. I swear to you, this is going to sound gross, but I can work out and I do high intensity training. I can work out, sweat a whole bunch in the humidity, take it off, hang it up, come back the next day to work out, no smell.

48:39Oh, wow. And put it on because it releases odor. So interestingly, the plastic industry has convinced us that the hygienic, good, non-smelling thing to do is wear plastic. But actually, plastic holds onto odor. It traps it. And that's why it also can proliferate things like UTIs or yeast infections too. So like not only is it bad for our body, it actually doesn't work as a performance fiber the way that we've been taught.

49:04Hannah Dunning:Okay, I have so many questions still. Let's go to UTIs for a minute. Yes. Because I just had this conversation with a friend at the gym. And she was like, I finally had to change all my underwear because it was causing UTIs. Yeah. And she's like, and yeast infections. And she's like, as soon as I went to 100 % organic, got certified, she's like, I haven't had one since. So why is that? Well, that's, you know, less to do likely with the chemicals and more to do just with the fiber itself. So like, you know, I remember it must have been early 2000s. I was getting yeast infections often. TMI. Sorry, everybody.

49:39But my doctor way back then said switch to or not organic. She did not say that. She just said switch to cotton underwear. And it helped. So that's because, again, it doesn't trap bacteria the way that plastic does. So even regular cotton. Right. So again, that's without the chemical conversation. The chemicals likely aren't causing UTIs or yeast infections. Likely. You could see more research, maybe. But we don't have data that says that right now. It's just the fiber.

50:06Hannah Dunning:Okay. Yeah. Interesting. Okay, so now back to the closet. Yeah. What about linen? Linen is incredible. It's one of the most incredible fibers from the dawn of time again. The Egyptians used linen to heal wounds. It just wrinkles so bad. Linen has come back now to a point where it's actually cool. It is coming back. thing to wear linen. I saw a guy the other day wearing linen pants out to dinner and I was like, that is an incredible look. Like my husband needs to wear linen more. But I understand a steamer, a quick steam. But linen is meant to move and like hold the wrinkles in a way that's just how our clothing is meant to look.

50:41Like that crisp plastic thing was created to sell to housewives who were going to work for the first time because they didn't have time to iron their husband's shirts anymore. So they sprayed a bunch of chemicals on it so they wouldn't have to. So, you know, likely if our ancestors did it, it's probably something we should still be doing when it comes to what we're wearing. You know, linen was also used. The reason we call bedding linens is because it was used in hospitals because it proliferates healing. So, right. Okay. Talking

51:10Hannah Dunning:about closets though, and I have a lot of jeans. Oh, please don't tell me they're all going to be so bad. Do you want me to be the most hated person in America right now? Is it come after people's jeans? Jeans happen to be unfortunately one of the most toxic pieces of clothing in our closet because of synthetic indigo. The indigo dyes they are using are an abomination to humanity in my opinion. Look at my jeans right now. As no judgment. There's no judgment. They're dark you guys. Dark indigo. It's the industry's fault. It's the industry's fault. We went from using real indigo. You know think about Levi's jeans.

51:43They're still finding Levi's jeans at the bottom of mine right now that the miners used to wear. Well. And you can auction them for a whole lot of money. And that's because they were using real ingredients. No plastic, real indigo. And they're incredible. So, you know, there are companies out there making a difference and doing better. Triarchy is one. I have equity in them. So disclaimer, I am super biased. But the reason I approached them about that is because they are truly making the world's cleanest gene, in my opinion. They're using organic cotton and they are using non-toxic dyes. And so that is all we can ask for today.

52:18In the future, I would love to see more natural indigo used. We just need more people to care in order to get to that point. So keep in mind, denim, anytime you have organic cotton denim, it's going to be more expensive. That's something I would work up to, right? But you are wearing them often. I wear my jeans, you know, probably three, four times a week. So if you're going to go for an investment piece, I would for a capsule closet and something that does have major health impacts, I would focus on denim.

52:45Hannah Dunning:OK, so a lot of people wear jeans every single day. So I don't want to freak people out. Start with your underwear. Start with the underwear. Work up to the jeans. But the problem with the jeans is the cotton in them and the indigo. Yeah, both. Right. Anytime you're not going through any chemical certification processes, it's hard to know what's inside of them. But I can tell you, statistically speaking, the synthetic indigo dyes are arguably the worst dyes. And then on top of that, denim goes through a crazy toxic chemical washing process. So like these are clean jeans. But if they weren't, you see this like wash that would come from those harsh chemicals.

53:20There's a way to do it without the harsh chemicals. But most gene companies are just throwing them in these giant vats. Like picture these huge washing machines that they dump these jeans in and they dump crazy chemicals inside and they just toss them and then they get to you. And that's why oftentimes too you can rub your hands on your jeans and they turn blue. That is a sign of a dye you do not want anywhere near your body.

53:43Hannah Dunning:So are darker blue jeans worse than the light blue jeans? You know, we have a lot of research showing that darker clothes in general are typically worse because it takes more chemicals to achieve that color. So there's no way for me to tell you for sure. I'm not sure what's in your genes because we don't have chemical transparency laws in this country. So I don't know. But yeah, like dark underwear, you know, really dark anything statistically usually comes back with higher levels of chemicals if they're not clean. So don't worry about the color if you're purchasing companies who are using, you know, safe dyes or whatever.

54:15But if they're not, lighter colors are usually safer.

54:17Hannah Dunning:Okay, so this is all so fascinating to me because everything you're saying, I'm like, this is how it was with the food industry 10 years ago. That's right. 10 years ago, we were making food brighter with the colors and we were making it last longer on the shelves and doing all these things with the chemicals. And now everybody's waking up to it of like, oh, these are not nourishing to our body, these chemicals. So I feel like I'm like having the same conversations with you that I did with people about food 10 years ago. Yeah. So I love that this is swinging to the side of let's all be aware of what is going on.

54:53I have the benefit in walking in the footsteps of women like you and men, everyone who's been fighting a battle in the food industry, in the supplement industry, because they are so similar. It's just that they came before. So I feel oftentimes lonely in the sense of like who's fighting for cleaner fashion. But I have almost like a blueprint of what to go after, how to communicate it. So that is a good part. I also have on my website, again, the safe clothing dot org. We are taking ambassadors, leaders for our coalition, every state except for two or maybe three. I wish I could remember them so I could call them out.

55:31But we have people interested in starting a clean clothing chapter in almost all 50 states. It's moms, really. It's not me. It's actually women reaching out. So as negative and terrible as social media can be, like I get some, I'm sure you do too, like crazy stuff where it's like, I really don't want to be here on social media. But the amount of women who reach out and they're like, what can I do? I'm a lawyer. I'm a doctor. I'm a toxicologist. Or I'm just a mom and I want better. Like the amount of messages I get like that keep me going. And there's a lot of us who want change.

56:04Hannah Dunning:Go women. Seriously. Okay. I love that the women are speaking out and women keep speaking out because that is how change is happening. We've seen that over the past few years, but being a mom myself, I still want to ask a few more questions if that's okay. Totally love it. I have like three different things because I want to talk blankets, but I also am going to be a new grandma and I want to talk about like all the flame retardants that are on car seats and things like that. So maybe we start with flame retardants and then I'll ask the other ones. So flame retardants, like they're still on kids pajamas.

56:36Hannah Dunning:We know they're still on car seats. Like totally. Let's just touch upon that really quick. What is the issue with these things? Yeah. So flame retardants have some of the most evidence showing that they are carcinogenic in character. Like it's wild to me that it still exists because from a science standpoint, the amount of research we have is so overwhelming. And yet industry is still saying that we can't really prove it. So the kids thing is wild because in the 70s, they passed a law for children's pajamas, which is what you're referring to. Because in the 30s, it really is this crazy, from like the 30s to the 50s, they had a wild increase in child burns.

57:14Like kids were getting burned. Because they were cooking and living near an open flame. Okay. Right. But it took them until the 70s to pass a law to require fire retardants in kids' loose-fitting pajamas. Wow. Make it make sense. It doesn't. Do you have an open flame in your home? Because I don't. I mean, I know, you know, some places have fireplaces maybe, but your kids don't sleep by the flames anymore. Right. Just not how we live. So it's just a great example of how archaic our laws are and how, in my opinion, they're really meant to support industry versus actually protecting us. So kids PJs, the rule of thumb is look for tight fitting ones because those are the ones that by law don't have to have fire retardants in them.

57:57Hannah Dunning:This is so crazy to me. So crazy. So crazy, especially if we know that they're carcinogenic. So, OK, loose ones, you guys have to put the flame retardants in, but tight ones, you don't. Like, at least that I know of. No child I know is sleeping by an open flame. Right. It's so silly. And, you know, that just points to the bigger issue, which is we don't have one government office or arm regulating clothing. So, like, the FDA doesn't oversee clothing. You know, the CPSC doesn't directly oversee clothing. The FTC doesn't. No, it's like this fragmented thing that we need to fix because, you know, the FTC requires you to put your fiber percentage and that's it.

58:38But then the CPSC requires like no phthalates and accessories on kids stuff. But that's it. So the only laws we have in this country around specifically the chemicals in our clothes are adding the fire retardants to the PJs. Lead limit in children's clothing can't be above a certain limit. Could still have lead. Interesting. to be below that limit. Totally legal in adult clothing, by the way.

59:01Hannah Dunning:Okay. And then the phthalates, you're not allowed to have them in accessories or child toys, like a stuffed animal. Okay. That's it. That's it. Yeah. Okay. That is crazy. So I understand why you're doing what you're doing. Right. But I cannot believe that we still are putting the flame retardants in the kids' stuff when we know it's carcinogenic. Totally. And here's the decent news for now. That's wrong. That's what we're fighting against right now. But also businesses see it as a business opportunity to offer better solutions because moms are asking for them now. So you're going to see even more options explode onto the market in the very near future.

59:37There are already options for fire retardant free car seats. There are options for kids PJs, Burt's B's kids. You know, people are worried because Burt's B's got sold out, but their clothing section is actually separate and different. And they still make great GOPS organic pajamas. Who else? I think Hannah Anderson has some options and all of these can be found at oftentimes more affordable prices. Also Carter's Little Planet. I'm not like a big Carter's fan because a lot of what they make is not good, but they have noticed a business opportunity for moms wanting cleaner. There's a lot of baby infant blankets, hats, etc.

1:00:13at Carter's Little Planet.

1:00:15Hannah Dunning:So I love that there's more and more options. Yeah. I think the flame retardants on car seats is also absurd. We talked about sheets and pajamas, but we didn't talk about blankets. Yeah. So most blankets, don't they contain polyester? Yeah, it's been the fabric of choice, that fuzzy, soft feeling. Most manufacturers or companies turn to polyester, unfortunately. Polyester, from a chemical standpoint, has been found to be the worst of all in terms of leaching chemicals. Just has to do with the process and how it's made. It's the most chemically intensive. And again, the leaching capabilities are wild.

1:00:52So if you can avoid polyester, I would do that at all costs, especially when you're sleeping or laying in something or breathing it in. There is a company I really love. They're doing clean wool. It's called Ah Baby, A-U Baby. And the owner was actually on Shark Tank. I think she's working with Kevin O 'Leary, I'm pretty sure. Controversial guy right now, though. But she's great. Ah Baby blankets are incredible.

1:01:14Hannah Dunning:Are they soft? Yes. They're incredible. Wool can be so scratchy. Depends on the kind. It depends on the kind you're using. So merino wool is like wonderful for performance. And there are people with wool allergies. Nothing crazy, but you may feel like a little itch. You may actually be sensitive to linolen in the wool. There's also other options. Again, Burt's Bees babies for like infants. I love their towels and their little, you know, swaddle blankets. Yeah, you have a grandbaby coming. I'd be all over Burt's Bees baby. There is Bull and Branch makes GOTS certified organic blankets for the house.

1:01:49Koyuchi makes organic GOTS certified blankets for the house. Like there are options out there. And again, the more we talk about this, like podcasts like this are a great way to proliferate that change and get companies interested.

1:02:02Hannah Dunning:Okay, so I'm thinking about my own kids' beds. Yeah. Are you okay with down comforters? Listen, I think focus on what's touching your skin the most first. So sheets for me would be number one. I wouldn't run out and like, you know, change everything because that's just not realistic or doable for most. You know, there's a way to do down. A lot of down has a lot of chemicals in it. Look for the companies using GOT certification or ask them about their chemical processes. But I wouldn't panic about that. I would just start with the sheets. And again, if you need affordable ones, Costco has them on their app.

1:02:35And they're great quality. I get tons of feedback about how much people love them. So I would just start there and I wouldn't stress too much. And then I'd slowly, you know, start exchanging your things over time.

1:02:45Hannah Dunning:So I love everything you have talked about, but I'm so concerned that my listeners are going to be overwhelmed with this and be like, I can't add one more thing to my plate. Like I am just trying to get fruits and veggies in. So what do you say as we wrap up here to those moms that this might be new to them? This might be new info. What do you say to them? Totally fair. And I remember feeling the exact same way. But the truth is not everyone has been called to every battle. Right. Right. There are a lot of things in our world that I am not called to fight. I'm just not. We cannot do it all. In fact, if we try to do it all, we're probably not effective really at anything.

1:03:22So if you don't feel called in terms of this being something you're passionate about, that's okay. Just focus on the underwear is what I would say. Just start there. And then you may notice as options become more accessible, it gets easier and easier for you to make the transition. and it makes sense for you. Most of these options right now are going to be cost prohibitive for most.

1:03:41Hannah Dunning:Well, I was going to say we didn't even touch upon that because some of the brands that send me some things to look at, I'm like, I can't shout this out. It's$50 for one pair of underwear. Oh, 100%. And here's the thing. What I would do is I would think about these pieces of clothing as an investment in that it's doing good for your body, but that it's something you should also be taken care of. That's something humans have done since the dawn of time is take care of their clothes. Like they used to be like something we had pride in in terms of taking care of them and keeping them for a long time, passing them down.

1:04:15How amazing are jeans that your grandma passed down to your mom or like jeans from the 90s that, you know, you can pass down to your kids. Like that's awesome. And we need more of that. So I think we need to shift how we think of clothes too. Clothes are not meant to be disposable. We should not be throwing clothes away. If you can kind of think of it like that, I think it's more helpful. That doesn't address the kids' clothes, though, because your kids grow fast. I was going to say. Yeah. And these clothes are expensive. So only do what you can. I have been really inspired by moms in our community

1:04:47Hannah Dunning:starting swap groups because enough moms care at this point. And usually like when you find out, like, I'm sure you're going to make different choices and then you're going to tell your friend. Right. And then my friend dropped a whole box of clean maternity clothes off at one of our girlfriend's houses who was newly pregnant. She's wearing them. And then when she's done, she'll pass it to the other one of us. So, like, it's not perfect. And that's unfair. We didn't even talk about pregnant women. And that's true because babies and pregnant women are my two passion groups of who should be concerned about what's in their clothes.

1:05:18Pregnant women are the most arguably vulnerable when it comes to hormonal changes. And when you introduce these chemicals during that time, we, again, are seeing more studies on the epigenetics of these chemicals and how they can impact your fetus, male or female, down the line. Wow. It's a big deal. It's a very big deal. Scientists everywhere are ringing the alarm bells. It's not okay. Fertility rates are plummeting. We're seeing choices of parents play out in the genetics of babies later. It's wild.

1:05:50Hannah Dunning:Well, and I saw that study that they took the umbilical cord and it was hundreds of phthalates that they found within the umbilical cord. Yeah. Reduction is huge. That's all we can do is slowly start making changes where we can. That's what I would maintain. If you're like me and you feel a special calling to fight for this, this is the time to do it. This is a unique time in history. No one later will have this point in time. And no one before us has had this point in time where we have the capability to change an industry forever. That's pretty cool. That is cool. If you feel a fire lit within you like I did when I was angry going through my clothes, I was angry.

1:06:30You can do one of two things. You can give up. And I'm not shaming those people. I get it. Trust me. Again, sometimes I wish I had just been like, that's for someone else or you can channel it into driving change and it's pretty darn rewarding and you're you're setting your kids up for a better future just again by doing small things like talking about it and asking companies so i would encourage everyone listening regardless of where you're at financially mentally emotionally to make a choice either put it aside for now and make small changes where you can or channel that the justice piece of you maybe is triggered right now if that's you like we have ways to get involved again at safeclothing.org you can become an ambassador you can come to dc with us and protest like there are so many things to do or you can just tell your

1:07:12Hannah Dunning:girlfriends about buying cleaner underwear i love that and one thing i'm going to add because i'm in this boot camp with the moms meaning i don't do non-toxic stuff like i said at the beginning of the show i'm just getting into the leggings and to the underwear and bras i would tell them also like don't feel guilty about the past like don't be like oh dang my child has been wrapped up in a blanket that's toxic for two years now or whatever. Like, gosh, don't feel guilty about the past. Be like, oh, okay, I've learned some new info and I'm going to do better moving forward. To me, living a healthy lifestyle shouldn't be about the past of like, like I think sometimes I use baby powder on my kid's bums with talc in it.

1:07:53Hannah Dunning:Well, there's nothing I can do about it. All I can do is learn and do better for the future. And so that's my advice to them also as well. It's like, let's just do a little better tomorrow and let's not worry about what we did in the past. I will take that advice too. You know, I'm a mom too who made different choices, you know, so I'll take that advice too. That's really good. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. I love what you're doing. We need more moms like you or more women standing up for what is right. And so thank you for doing what you do. I'm excited for what you're doing because I really see the momentum like the food industry 10 years ago Is literally what the clothe industry is today and there's been so many changes in the food industry that I know It's coming with the clothes.

1:08:36Hannah Dunning:So thank you for being an advocate for all of us And I always end my podcast by asking five quick questions. Okay. Are you okay with that? Let's do it Number one what emerging health topic are you most excited about right now? Ooh, women's fertility for sure, without a doubt, with how many of my friends and myself who have struggled with infertility or recurrent loss. The IVF industry is really interesting to me right now. Napro fertility is really interesting in terms of an alternative. My friend Illy, she's healthillie, I-L-L-I-E on Instagram. That woman inspires me more than, I mean, I could, it brings tears to my eyes what she's fighting for through her own pain.

1:09:19I think that's just another great example of a woman taking such, again, pain and hardship and anger and channeling it into something that could quite literally change the trajectory of our future. So NAPRO fertility, my friend Naomi, she is a NAPRO fertility surgeon and she has blown my mind in all of the incredible things in that industry. So I would have to say that. And if you don't follow Ili, you should absolutely follow her fight.

1:09:46Hannah Dunning:The whole infertility thing, we could do a whole podcast on that because the food affects it so much and nutrients affect it, but also the clothing and all the environmental toxins are affecting it. All correlated. Have you had Ili on the podcast? No, I should, though, especially after her last story. Oh, my gosh. You know, with all of her endometriosis and all of that. You should. Okay, number two, what's a piece of advice you give your younger self? Lean into that still small voice. You know, some people call it intuition. I call it the Holy Spirit. If you feel that inkling that you're meant to do something, even if people call it crazy, do it anyways.

1:10:20Hannah Dunning:I love that. I was called really crazy for good reason when I started this journey. People are like, no way. Like, what are you eating your leggings? And now it's full circle. It's like, oh, we didn't even talk about leggings. Oh, so many different things we could talk about. But the same thing. I mean, you're sweating while you're wearing them. Totally. Can I just ask you really quick what you said about Lulu? Yeah, yeah, you can. You know, Lulu is a really great example of why companies need to be really careful moving forward. Lulu is portraying themselves as a health and wellness company. And you can make a pretty good case, as we're seeing with the Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton and his team, for misleading consumers by calling yourself a health and wellness company and then having certain ingredients found.

1:11:05So while we don't have laws prohibiting these chemicals federally, and while we don't have any organization overseeing clothing as a whole, we do have consumer protection law. And misleading the consumer is a very strong way to go after companies potentially doing that. So I think Lulu, you know, is a great example of what we can probably expect in the future for companies who aren't very careful. And I work with companies of big, small, and everything in between. And what I tell them is now is the time to do your due diligence. Like if you don't know every chemical that's being used in your supply chain, that is a massive liability and you need to address it right now.

1:11:48Hannah Dunning:Okay. So are they being held accountable for claiming they're a health and wellness company? Well, they're under investigation right now. So it's an active investigation. So hard to say, we don't know. But what I would say is supply chains are very hard to take control of. And if you are not making concertive and extreme efforts to take control of your supply chain and fashion, there's probably some stuff you wouldn't be proud of. Okay, that's really good to know. All right, number three, what's the one health practice you'll never compromise on no matter how busy life gets? Sleep. I said earlier I didn't get enough sleep.

1:12:22That doesn't mean I don't try because I recognize how important it is. Usually when I can't sleep, it's because I'm laying in bed and I can't turn my brain off. But I'm never going to be staying out late. I'm never going to be sacrificing that time to detox. Like if you can prioritize one thing, I would say sleep would be the ultimate differentiator between being able to heal and not. If you're not getting good sleep, there's no way for your body to catch up in any area. And really that has nothing to do with clothes other than, of course, you want to sleep on good things. But even if you're not making your clothing journey changes right now, good sleep can allow your body the bandwidth to handle the inevitable chemicals in all areas of your life.

1:13:00Our bodies are incredible. We just have to give them a little bit of oomph to be able to do what they're meant to do.

1:13:05Hannah Dunning:Well, I love that you said that because for those listening that might be concerned, I do want to say your body is detoxing 24-7. Absolutely. And water is going to help. Exercise is going to help. The fruits and veggies are going to help. The fiber is going to help. Like there's so many things that we can do to help our body detox the things that we can't take control of. Great point. And also the sauna. If you have access to a sauna, I hate that more people don't. If you can get yourself into a sauna, make sure you're not wearing plastic. I was going to say. Don't wear a baby suit. Please don't.

1:13:39Yeah.

1:13:39Hannah Dunning:There's a lot of people that wear the polyester underwear in the saunas. Oh, gosh. It's literally like my horror movie. If you can just get in natural fibers, that's better than plastic. But if you can get in GOT certified organic and get yourself into a sauna, we have emerging research that shows that may be the best way for a good amount of these chemicals to make it out of your system. So that is what I would highly recommend on top of what the recommendations you just gave. I love that. All right. Question number four. What's your favorite Just Ingredients product and why? You know what I love is the electrolytes.

1:14:11Hannah Dunning:Oh, thank you. Yeah, and I actually don't usually like electrolytes. I have a very sensitive to the salty situation going on. And usually I can only put like a fourth in because otherwise I get overwhelmed. I use your whole packet in my water bottle. I love it. Because I love the taste. That's because we have more potassium than sodium. Oh, okay. Because the potassium actually helps the water get into the cell. Fascinating. Yeah. Side note, parabens actually do that like in lotions and stuff. They use parabens to dissolve more. So that's another easier. Yes. So when we're talking about parabens and clothes, side note, that's just remind me with your potassium point.

1:14:47But yeah, the electrolytes are incredible.

1:14:49Hannah Dunning:Big fan. Thank you. Okay, last question. What is the best ingredient you've found to life? For sure, God, like Jesus Christ for me, for sure. Might sound cheesy, but like, you know, when you're tackling something like this and not, again, we all have our own battles and it's all relative. So whatever you're battling at home feels and seems just as big as whatever I'm battling at home and vice versa. And when I'm not sleeping at night and I can't shut my brain off because I'm thinking about all the people mad at me or all the industries mad at me or all the moms who don't know or whatever. the only thing that brings me peace is that again still small voice that says you are meant to do this and that is my ultimate reset i don't know how people make it through life without that no judgment other than if you're searching for something that is the ultimate peace in my opinion that is the only way to achieve it i love that and i can relate with you because it's hard out there to stand up for things and to have a voice and there's the haters out there but god's the one that always brings the peace.

1:15:52Hannah Dunning:So I love that. Will you just tell the listeners where they can learn more from you and where they can find you? Yeah. So first and foremost, Instagram, which is Hannah Dunning, D-U-N-N-I-N-G 11. That's where I do all of my education for the most part, because it's the most accessible way to do it. You can, on my Instagram, find my shop my. I have linked all of my favorite pics, favorite jeans, shirts, bedding, whatever. That is my one-stop shop and then most importantly our non-profit the clean clothing coalition you can find that at safeclothing.org that's where you can get involved and that's where moms can actually make a difference in the clothing industry thank you for all you have done in the food industry and protesting against kellogg's like again that is our blueprint so i just want to take a moment to thank you and for your podcast for having people like me on to be able to get more moms involved is incredible so So thank you, Karlyn.

1:16:48Thank you for having me.

1:16:49Hannah Dunning:Thank you so much for flying out here and taking the time to do this. And I know my listeners have learned so much. I've learned a lot. I'm inspired to go do better. And so thank you for everything that you're doing. It's my pleasure. Thank you for being here and being part of this community. Don't forget to subscribe to the Just Ingredients podcast. We've got so much more to share with you. And if you're not already, come join us daily on all social media platforms at just dot ingredients. Until next time, keep choosing what nourishes you.