Constipated to Consistent: What Your Kid's Gut Is Trying to Tell You w/ Dr. Sheila Kilbane

30:32but we can do some zinc and you can do, you know, either multivitamin mineral, whole food supplements. And when you get the nutrients in, they usually start eating better. That is so interesting about zinc because I do have a little nephew who is so picky. And so I'll have to suggest that. Get a little bit of zinc going. Yeah. Let's take a quick break to hear from our show sponsor. Back to school season is here, and if you're anything like me, you're thinking hard about what's actually going in your kid's lunchbox this year or what snack they're going to grab on their way out the door. That's why I stock my fridge with Sunny Snacks.

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31:59Now back to the show. Okay, so at the beginning, you just touched a little bit upon eczema. So does constipation play a role in eczema? Because the gut microbiome and the skin microbiome, which is a fascinating topic are so closely linked. When we start to get the gut improving, the skin can start to improve, but we've got to address them at the same time. And this is where it gets really just amazing with the science. So when the skin is not intact, right, when it's itchy and open as eczema is, it's a skin rash, that creates inflammation in the gut. Okay. And we have bacteria on our skin And there's a staph bacteria, kids with eczema, that they have a higher count of staph on their skin and adults.

32:51And it secretes a toxin that continues to cause the skin to flare up. And when we start to address that, we start to decrease the inflammation in the gut. And then we use whatever the supplements we need to make sure that the kids are pooping. and by addressing both of them together, we see changes pretty quickly, but then it's after three to four months when the parents are able to go, oh my gosh, the skin is clear and we're stopping what we're using topically and it's not flaring back up again. Okay, so you're going to use something topically to help the eczema, but at the same time be working on the gut.

33:30So if they aren't pooping, then first maybe magnesium. Yes. After the magnesium gets them moving, then we're removing maybe gluten and dairy and adding in fruits and veggies. Yes. Are the first steps, the first takeaways that people can do if they're listening to this show. Yes. And kind of the order that I will do is we'll do magnesium and then we'll do a green smoothie in the morning. Okay. So by saying what can we do, it kind of automatically starts to decrease the bagels or Pop-Tarts or, you know, whatever the big carb meal is in the morning that we're normally doing. and then we can get some of those nutrients going.

34:09Okay. So then, though, after they've done the magnesium, fruits and veggies, less gluten and dairy, at that point, well, this whole time they should be working with a doctor, but then at that point you would give them maybe specific supplements or probiotics, things like that. Exactly. For the kids I see in my practice, they usually have a lot going on, so we're doing testing and doing targeted things. But in my book, Healthy Kids, Happy Moms, and we've got this new constipation, which I laugh every time. Constipated to consistent is what I called it. I love it. And we go through exactly what the process is.

34:47And it's not simple. It's not a ton of things, but it's just getting the right foods and getting the balls moving and getting the fats. Okay. So we've talked about the fiber from the fruits and veggies. We've talked about the fats, but hydration plays a huge part in this as well. Kids are drinking soda, lots of soda, or lots of chocolate milk. Does that count? No, no. So we need to get water in, and kind of an easy rule of thumb is kids need to drink about half their body weight in ounces. So right, a 50-pound child would drink 25 ounces of water, and you can do water. What we will often do is have them add something in that will give it taste so that they're more likely to drink it.

35:31And better to drink something that's going to be healthy, right, like a microgreens drink or an electrolyte powder and kind of make it fun. Get them a water bottle and, you know, maybe a 12-ounce water bottle and say, okay, you've got to drink two of these a day. Give them a sticker or give them some incentive. Most of us need a little incentive. to incentive and flavor. I am not a water person unless it's got electrolytes in it. Yeah. But a reminder to parents that a lot of electrolytes out there are full of so much sugar. Yes. Because they're made for athletes. Your kids are not running marathons.

36:06They do not need that added sugar. No. So find an electrolyte without the added sugar. Yeah. I actually wrote about that in my book because one of the very popular sports drinks, it was developed for football players in Florida in the middle of the summertime, right? Not many of us work out like that. You know, people do. And sweat like that in that type of heat and humidity in pads. Yeah. Yeah. I know, because obviously we make an electrolyte and lots of people say like, you need sugar and electrolyte. And I'm like, if you're a marathon runner, you do. But mine are going to the everyday mom, the kids.

36:42Yeah. They need the electrolytes. They need something to flavor their water that's nourishing. Yes. Yes. So, okay. So talking about constipation and inflammation, you talked about five things that contribute to inflammation. So we've got the food, which we've talked about, environmental allergies, toxins, environmental toxins, infections, and stress. Yes. So I'm curious with stress for kids, because we always talk about stress for adults. We're busy. We've got kids. We're working. Are kids dealing with that same type of stress as adults are? Yes. So stress can be created by so many different things.

37:24And stress is not always bad. That's the other thing I like to talk about because, right, it gets us motivated. It gets us to do things. But like even as we're sitting here, I'm kind of holding my breath a little bit. Right when you started to talk about stress, I was like, OK, maybe breathe. And if you have a kid who's maybe they love school maybe they have some sensory things like maybe loud noises jar their nervous system maybe the bright lights at school aren't the easiest thing for them that's gonna have their system in fight or flight during a lot of the school day that's gonna shut down their gut because we need right we've got this vagus nerve it's called the wandering nerve when we activate the vagus nerve in the parasympathetic nervous system that's rest and digest so that's going to help us have bowel movements that's also going to bring the blood for a low from the rest of the body to the frontal cortex which is where we think and do our math and when you're in more of that fight or flight right you're ready to run away from the line in the forest the blood is going to shunt away from the gut to the arms and the legs and it's going to go away from the frontal cortex to the more primitive brain.

38:34Our heart rate's going to go up. Our respiratory rate's going to go up. And so we really want a more state. And people know, right, we'll call it kind of a flow state or a relaxation. And you know, because you can think, you can be creative. And so it's creating the environment that helps us all get into it. Like, this is a lovely, you know, if you were, if we were in a different kind of environment, we wouldn't be as relaxed and having as fun a conversation, right? Okay, so this is interesting because kids, I think they do stress at school quite a bit. They're nervous about getting in trouble.

39:11They're nervous that they can't understand the math or they can't read well enough when the teacher calls on them. I mean, I'm just like knowing from six kids, sometimes they just come home exhausted due to the stress during the day. So I didn't put together though that that stress is decreasing the mobility of the gut. Exactly. And so that could be contributing to constipation, obviously. Yes, because it's also that 30 percent number with constipation that that also is including transient constipation. So you may have tests coming or maybe the high school kids have finals coming up and they're cramming and they're not eating as like they usually do.

39:50So maybe they, you know, haven't gone in a week or a few days, just getting back into your routine, doing your physical activity. But there are little easy things that activate the nervous system. And right, we all know deep breathing, you can do alternate nasal breathing. Gargling is another one. Deb, our integrative pharmacist, she always talks a lot about gargling. And that's such an easy thing to do. And it's kind of fun. And humming is another big thing. So there are easy ways that you can do it that don't cost any money. It's just getting yourself to do it. So those things activate the vagus nerve to help with the digestion.

40:35Yes. Yeah. Love. When I found this out, my kids love to hum. And I hum all the time. And my husband will be like, do you even know you're humming? And now knowing that humming activates the vagus nerve, I love when I hear my kids hum. Yes. So I always find that fascinating. Oh, that's interesting. Do you know you're humming when you do it? No. He has to tell me like, do you know you've hummed like the same song five times now? And I'm like, oh, whoops, sorry. But it's when you let your body kind of do whatever it does naturally. I think because I don't hum when I'm very stressed. So it's more if I'm just cleaning the house or getting ready or something.

41:12Yeah. Yeah. But I I love that you talk about breathing because kids stressed at school can't hum. Then they're in trouble for being loud. But they could easily just do some deep breathing to regulate that cortisol. Yeah. There's a 4-7-8 breathing. There's box breathing. If you just so few, breathe in through your nose for four seconds. Hold it for seven seconds. And then exhale slowly through your mouth for eight seconds. When you make the exhalation longer than the inhalation, it activates the parasympathetic nervous system. That's where you're going to get that release. So then the blood flow is going to go back to the gut, help us poop, but also the blood flow is going to go back to the frontal cortex, you said.

41:56Yep. Which when you said that, that is fascinating because you're saying that's where the math learning is being done. And I know so many kids stress when it's math time because it's hard. But yet we need the blood flow going there. Yes. That's fascinating. Right. And so much of the research also around sleeping and if you've gotten a good night's sleep, that's also going to help your parasympathetic nervous system. And like having kids get up and run around, like I'll have them run around the house if they're doing their homework or their math homework. You know, if they can safely do a little mini tramp.

42:29I love those because that's going to and it's going to put you in a sympathetic state for a minute. Right. While you're doing it. But then that helps you get back into that relaxation state. That's good to know. I started doing yoga during medical school and I just shifted everything. But in, you know, this ancient, ancient tradition, the way that they teach meditation is you do yoga and you meditate right when you finish. When you've got all your endorphins and all your blood flow, again, you're in sympathetic state, but then it's easier to get if you can sit and clear your mind, then you can get that blood flow to your brain, and then you can go do your homework.

43:06All right. Talking about sleep, though. So is the not pooping causing the bad sleep or is the bad sleep causing the not pooping? Kind of like we talked about with the skin is we start to chase our tails. Let's just say you went on vacation and you ate a lot of junk and then you got constipated and then you start not sleeping and then you get stressed because you're not sleeping and then you're stressing because you're not sleeping. That's why we just do start with one thing at a time. But usually one thing affects all of the systems. And when you look at that cup of inflammation, when it's overflowing, you might have trouble pooping, you may have trouble sleeping.

43:44so we're just going to do one thing and maybe we're going to increase our electrolytes while we can figure out the other things that we need to do. And we're just going to do that one thing or we're just going to start magnesium and then you just start to pay attention. And it's feeling because some people feel everything in their body, right? Some people feel tags on their clothes and they feel, right, the princess and the pea. And then you have other people who hardly feel anything, but they also don't have the sensations of their body. And they don't even, sometimes they don't know when they have to poop.

44:21And we've got a couple different sides of the coin. They can affect us equally from the opposite side, but it's that happy medium. As you want your body functioning, you don't have to pay a whole lot of attention to it. Yeah. Okay. So from this podcast, we know that if you're not sleeping well or the kids have bad moods or you're dealing with eczema or even poor behavior in class, it might be that they are not pooping every day. Yes. And if they're not pooping every day, there's little takeaways that you have given that moms can do, dads can do to help them. This isn't like some huge overwhelming thing.

44:58No, it can be really simple. And when you get that poop going, you just will notice the snowball effect in a good way of all of these other things that start to improve. And skin. And I'll just share. So when I was probably mid-30s when I realized gluten was inflaming me and I started having bowel movements. I was like, oh my gosh, this is incredible. My skin got better. My belly got flatter. Right. I was bloated all the time. I could actually eat more. And so I always have parents do the food changes with the kids, because if the parents feel those changes, you know, we're all built similarly in families.

45:39And so, you know, that may more likely be that the child will feel better off of that food. But it also helps you realize the profound effect food has on our system. Oh, I love that the parents should do it with the child. Yes. Yeah. I love that because last night I was talking to my daughter about going gluten-free. I've been gluten-free for years and years. And I said, you need to start doing this. And I asked her boyfriend if he would do it with her. And he was like, no way. I'm not doing that. That's too hard. I was like, oh, come on. So I love that if we're going to try to make the kids do it, the parents should do it also.

46:14Yes. But it also, because look at your skin. Like you can look at people and you know how they're eating. I mean, it's that clarity. There's a glow to it. We spend billions of dollars making our faces look good, right? There's a plastic surgeon in Charlotte. He's a good friend of mine and he's an integrative plastic surgeon. He won't do a facelift on a woman unless they go do dairy and gluten-free. Oh, interesting. I love that. Yes. And then they'll often come back off. I don't know I don't know his stance, but they may come back and say, okay, I don't need it. Oh, I love that. But what happens is your body will heal better when your inflammation is down.

46:50Well, it's like I had a therapist just tell me she won't take kids until they're off artificial dyes because she's like, why am I trying to do therapy for these kids that no amount of yellow dye can I combat against? Yes. And you know this, but in the UK, because all of these things I learned as I was practicing, and you just go, oh my gosh. So I had a kid one day who came in and when he would eat blue dye, he would flap his hands, caramel color, he would sniff his hands. And so anyway, the mom took those, you know, well before they came to see me. So then I started to read more. But in the UK, since 2010, they've had to have a warning label on packages with artificial dyes and colors saying this can impact kids' behavior.

47:39The candy companies, right, they took that stuff out in the candy that's sold in those countries, but they left it in the U.S. I know because it's cheaper to make with the artificial stuff. So they're making more profits off of us in America. Yeah. I know it's crazy. It's kind of maddening. Yeah. I don't know if you know this, but Target just made all of their cereal providers not use artificial dice. So if you use artificial dice, you cannot be on Target store shelves, which I think is awesome. That, right, the dollar. And that's moms, I think, that are making that happen. Yeah, because they don't want to buy the junk anymore.

48:13So kudos to all the moms making the changes. Yeah. Okay, so as we wrap up, I'm curious because I've had this question a lot, and I know moms are always wondering this. So besides constipation, what are other signs that their kid's gut might need some help? I'll start off and kind of describe it from the time they're infants, right? They might have reflux. They might start to get eczema. They may start to get bumps on the back of their arms, cheeks, or thighs, which is called keratosis pilaris. Then they start to get chronic runny nose. They might have dark circles under their eyes. They might be mouth breathing, right?

48:52I affectionately call it the Darth Vader breathing. Those kids, they're unmistakable. Their mouths are hanging open, and they're going, we hang. and their tonsils are enlarged often and they might have poor sleeping. They might be getting headaches. When we're looking at asthma, it may be poorly controlled. So symptoms of inflammation are symptoms that we need to be looking at and making sure that the gut, that they're not constipated. But the one thing I do want to say is that we talk a lot about constipation, but it could be loose stools for some kids. And that's when it's going through too quickly and they're not absorbing their nutrients effectively and efficiently.

49:38So we're talking about constipation, but this will also apply. You're not going to do magnesium, but you're going to do all of the good, solid, adding fiber, adequate nutrients, making sure that they're digesting. For them, we want to slow the GI tract down a little bit. Okay, so for them, you're still going to do the healing of the gut. Exactly. but not the magnesium. So still the fruits and veggies, get rid of the dairy and gluten, and some fats. Yes. I love that question so much because it's a foundational approach, and it's very, very similar, whether it's eczema, constipation, loose stools, asthma, allergies, you know, ADHD.

50:21That's a lot of health issues. Oh, ADHD. That is included in this constellation of symptoms because when you can watch the fluctuations in it, right? You take a kiddo with ADHD and you give them an ice cream and a lollipop, they're going to go bonkers. And it's the food, but it's also because we're affecting the microbiome. Okay, so this is really good for people to hear because so many kids deal with ADHD. So do some ADHD kids deal with constipation then? Yeah, absolutely. Because it's the gut health is affecting the poop, but affecting their mood. Yes. And what you'll hear the parents will come in and say is that they don't want to take the time to go to the bathroom.

51:05And it's in particular for kids with ADHD. But it's also if your body is functioning the way it should be and we've got this gut motility going, you can't really not go to the bathroom. You're going to have an accident. And so, again, that's another issue, but they're going to get up and go because they're going to feel it. So I feel like if a parent is listening to this, their child is dealing with any of those health issues, ADHD, depression. Anxiety. The anxiety, not sleeping, the eczema. I mean, you name it. I mean, you listed so many. Really, it comes down to healing the gut. Yes. And that's why I say it's a lot simpler.

51:45I think we make it too complex. What I see is people are reaching for acute care remedies. They're waiting until... They want the magic pill. Yes. I know. Even my daughter last night is like, well, what supplement can I take? And I'm like, well, I do have some of those, but let's get rid of the gluten first. Yes. And so that's where if you can use the supplements and powders and things as a tool to get to where you need to go, and then you know what combination works for you. And I like that you're saying we're making it too complex because in reality, healing the gut does overwhelm parents. So let's just simplify it as to eating more fruits and veggies, hydrating.

52:29But it's because of the gluten and dairy part. That's what makes it complicated. Let's not lie. But parents hate that part. Yes. A friend of mine said he's he's a lawyer and he's a great lawyer. He's my good editors. But he will always say to me, because he will read my book and stuff, and he'll say, you should just have an autoresponder on your email that says go off, you know, take your kid off gluten and dairy and call me if they still are having issues. because when you take that out, that's going to create room for all of these other healthy foods to come in. And then once you do it, a lot of times the kids will be able to tolerate birthday parties, things like that.

53:06All right. Can I tell you one story? So one of my kiddos, he's on the autism spectrum, incredible mom. She has done everything, knocked out of the park. He has better articulation, better eye contact. He's calmer. He's pooping. He's he's doing amazingly well in school. And they went to a quinceañera, which is a party that they have in the Hispanic community. And she just let him go. She was like, I couldn't control it. There was everything there. Normally, before we started doing all this work together, he would have been thrown off for a couple of weeks. He threw up in the car on the way home and then he was fine the next day.

53:47Right. Interesting. Went to school and was fine. So that I mean, that's an extreme case. Yeah. But whether it's asthma, because the thing is, is we want to get our usually you can enjoy those treats better when your system's inbound, when you've done the work. And then you then you can have the things, but you kind of start to lose the taste for it. Yeah. Well, gluten-free and dairy-free is tricky at first, but what I want to tell parents is there's so many better choice options out there these days. Like, trying to do this 10 years ago versus now, you can find pasta that legit tastes like good pasta.

54:22You can find, you know, like not the gluten-free stuff. I mean, you can find good options out there. Granted, the gluten-free bread is still a little eh. I have found a couple that I love and they're in the freezer section and all that. But it is a thousand times better than it was. The tortillas are great. There's mac and cheese that's gluten free. So there are good options out there. So much better. So give it a try is what I want to tell them. Yeah. And I just want to say because it's not, I think it's a way that we've changed the food and our microbiomes. We have created a setup for this inflammation.

54:59And it's not that these foods, it's the way that we've processed these foods, right? A lot of people will say they can go to Europe and eat gluten and feel fine. And I just got back from Italy and did great there all week long. In fact, I have to tell you this. I was afraid to eat pasta because I know what gluten does to me. Within five minutes, I literally look like seven months pregnant. And the pain just resonates all the way up my stomach, through my armpits and down my back. And so I was really nervous to eat some. Yeah. But I did, and it did nothing. So I was like, oh my gosh. So for a whole week, I enjoyed pasta.

55:33So on the plane ride home, they were having hamburgers, and I thought, I'm going to have the bun. I did great in Italy. Oh, within five minutes, I was a mess. I was dying. That's such a good example. Where in Italy were you? We went to Florence and to Rome. Yeah. So I was really bummed. But it is how we process it. Yeah. Because we took a cooking class over there and he was like, oh, we do not spray with glyphosate like you guys do with the wheat. We don't hybridize. We don't do this and this. I mean, a whole list of things that they don't do. Yeah. And so they have like wheat was intended to be.

56:05Yeah. Just eat real food. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being here and teaching the listeners so much. Will you tell the listeners where they can find you and your book? Yes, absolutely. So it's Sheila Kilbane, just Sheila Kilbane dot com. And I have a brick and mortar practice in Charlotte, North Carolina. We do lots of education online. My book is Healthy Kids, Happy Moms. And it's seven steps to heal and prevent common childhood illnesses. And that's a regular book. And we just finished an e-book and that's called Constipated to Consistent. It's the one thing that makes everything better.

56:43Oh, I love that. Poop, sleep, mood. And yes, so we have lots of resources online and we just love to help families get these kids feeling good. I love that you're still in practice. That's amazing. And listeners, as you know, she is a complete wealth of knowledge. And so go give her a follow. Your book is really good. I like it because it's very easy and digestible to read. It's not like you're having to read this. huge book. No, no pun intended. My editor was phenomenal. She's a friend of mine. And they're short chapters. And Harper made it full color halfway through because these images that we were creating were so wonderful.

57:25So anyway, thank you. It is a great book. It's short and it's easy. First part is the science behind it. Second part is the how-to. The third part are recipes. Yeah, it is a great one. So you can grab it on Amazon. Amazon. Okay. Yep. Good to know. Well, thank you again for being here. We always end the podcast with these five rapid fire questions. Yes. And so the first one is what emerging health topic are you most excited about right now? Well, the microbiome, of course, right? The gut microbiome, the skin microbiome completely revolutionized the way that I practice and what we understand about health.

58:02But it's still the simple process, right? I think we're understanding in a better way. And we're understanding that antibiotics can impact us for six months, for two years, for longer. So we can support the microbiome while we're creating this great health. We didn't even talk about antibiotics. I can say this really quickly because, and I have an image in my book, when you take an antibiotic, amoxicillin, the studies show it can impact your gut microbiome up to six months, probably longer. But what you do is you take a probiotic away from the antibiotic. And you don't need to wait. A lot of pediatricians will say, wait until you're done with it.

58:43It's not going to affect the effectiveness of the antibiotic. So you take your antibiotic twice a day with breakfast and dinner. Take the probiotic at lunch and at bedtime or any time. Just space it out by an hour or two. The research has been around since the 70s that show that probiotics help decrease the rates of antibiotic-associated diarrhea, which think about yeast infection in babies. I want you to take the antibiotics when you need it, but let's support the gut while we're doing it. Okay, question number two. What is a piece of advice you give your younger self? I love this one, and it would be to do what feels right and don't worry about what anybody else thinks.

59:29Being in medicine and going down a different path, you just want to fit in and you don't want to be the one going against the grain. It takes a while and I was really kind of in the closet about it for many, many years. And my partners, I remember at first they'd be like, what's that voodoo medicine you're practicing? And then two years later, they're like, Sheila, what are the dose of those probiotics? Oh, interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I love that because it's like you're paving the path, basically, in this new type of medicine. I mean, thankfully, more and more are becoming aware of it, but a pediatrician talking about the microbiome, that's not happening for a lot of moms out there.

1:00:10And so I love what you're doing. Yeah, thank you. Number three, what's the one health practice you'll never compromise on, no matter how busy life gets? It's food, whether I'm traveling, whether I'm, you know, and you would have laughed today. I had a really early morning flight and I knew that I would have tight connections and things. So I just had a little, you know, thing of rice and we, we got in Thai food yesterday. So I just, you know, kind of thinking ahead of time, had them give me a little plastic container. And I was feeling a little awkward with the people in my, near me in my seat.

1:00:44But that is because I, I have to feel good. I like to be able to do what I want to do. I'm the same way. I just traveled for three days straight recently. And you have to think about it and you have to plan ahead a little bit. But I was not about to eat the airport food or the junk on the plane or whatever. And I feel great after traveling. So you get to where you're going. Yeah, I love that. Number four, what's your favorite Just Ingredients product and why? Well, the microgreens, of course. When I started to learn about microgreens before your products came out, I was telling everybody to use microgreens because it's also easier on the gut and we could get into spinach and how, you know, we want to do that a little bit later when we're healing the gut.

1:01:29But to have powdered microgreens, literally that allows your body to absorb those nutrients. It's an automatic absorption. Even if you have some inflammation and some damage in the lining of your gut, when you have it broken down like that, that's going to get absorbed really well. And so you're going to start to see, right, you do that consistently for three to four weeks, you're going to start to see these improvements. Yeah, they are so nutrient-packed, and I love the whole sephoraphane content of them. I mean, we could talk about that, and that helps with the kids detoxing and helps their liver and helps so many things, especially these kids dealing with all of these health issues.

1:02:11Yes, 2 ,000 different studies on sulfofurafanes, right, and autism. And we see a lot of kids who are sick from water-damaged buildings. We always want sulfofurafanes in their systems because that keeps one of the pathways, right, that NRF2 pathway open. So if you get a subsequent exposure, which you're going to have, there's mold everywhere. There's mold exposure. It's going to keep your system healthy. That's really good to know for everybody. Yes. All right. Last question. What is the best ingredient you've found to life? It has to be laughter. No matter what's going on, if you have a good laugh or pull up a James Corden who does the car karaoke.

1:02:54Like if you're feeling down or blue, you watch one of those and you start laughing. And I just think that that's the biggest thing. I do love that. I too I'm I'm I'm spiritual I'm not the most religious person I was raised Catholic but there's a Catholic priest Richard Rohr because I think laughter has to do with this and he talks about God being the kind of the relationship between all of us right not this person with a white beard in the sky but like this connection and that's what I love and I think because that's where we have that laughter and that fun so that that's just how I I love that laughter is great medicine.

1:03:34You always feel better after laughing for sure. Yeah. Well, again, thank you so much for being here. I know you are so busy, so it's an honor to have you here and thank you for taking the time, but listeners go give her a follow and you will definitely learn something. Thank you for being here and being part of this community. Don't forget to subscribe to the Just Ingredients podcast. We've got so much more to share with you. And if you're not already, come join us daily on all social media platforms at just.ingredients. Until next time, keep choosing what nourishes you.