Are the Minions master movie makers? + Edward Norton & Olivia Wilde on THE INVITE

0:00Simon Mayo: Now, Mark, I don't know why all these trendy podcasters need to sell such tat in their online shops these days. You'd have thought the show would have been enough for them. I mean, look at this tea towel. Simon, I think that's our shop you're browsing, isn't it? Oh, so it is. Actually, those Kermode and Mayor director's chairs are very nice, and it's all incredibly slick and easy. That's probably what confused me. That's because it's powered by Shopify. Shopify is where you go to start your business. Everything you need to start selling is included and ready from day one, which means our top production team can concentrate on, well, whatever it is that they do.

0:34While Shopify does all the hard work, because Shopify handles the setup and checkout, you have more time to focus on growing your business and the tools to do it.

0:41Simon Mayo: And Shopify checkout helps more customers finish their purchase. Then when they come back, their details are already saved. One tap and they're done. Simple. With Shopify, nothing stands between your idea and a real business. So go make it one. Start your free trial at shopify.co.uk slash take. Start your free trial at shopify.co.uk slash take. This episode is brought to you by Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Hey everyone, this is Jonathan Van Ness from Getting Better. You know what you believe. Maybe your faith is at the center of your life. Maybe you're still figuring it out.

1:19Maybe religion just isn't your thing. Those choices are personal, and in America, they should stay personal. That's why Americans United for Separation of Church and State is fighting for something that affects all of us. The freedom to live as yourself and believe as you choose, so long as you don't harm others. Because religious freedom isn't just about protecting your right to practice or not. And it surely isn't about having one forced government-sanctioned religion. It's about protecting your right to say, this is what I believe. While your neighbor says, I believe something completely different.

1:52And honestly, that's the whole point. If that sounds like the kind of America you want, learn more at au.org slash getting better. Because your beliefs are yours, and theirs are theirs.

2:05Simon Mayo: Before we begin, a quick reminder that you can become a Vanguard Easter and get an extra episode every Thursday. Including bonus reviews. Extra viewing suggestions. Viewing recommendations at home and in cinemas. Plus your film and non-film questions answered as best we can in Questions Schmestions. You can get all that extra stuff via Apple Podcasts or head to extratakes.com for non-fruit-related devices. There's never been a better time to become a Vanguardista. Free offer now available wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already a Vanguardista, we salute you.

2:52Simon Mayo: I think the appropriate place to start this particular recording is for you to explain your T-shirt, which you've only changed into like milliseconds ago off camera, which is, you know, disappointing for obviously. It's a relief. Yeah. Yeah. So it says made in 1963. This would apparently mean that it's your birthday. Yeah. So today that we're recording, this is Wednesday, but tomorrow, which is the day that it would go, go live or whatever it is. although actually I understand the video doesn't go live until Friday. So that probably isn't. Yes, I'm 51 again. I'm 60. What am I? I'm 63. It's baffling because you always say a different age.

3:35Simon Mayo: Yes. What do you actually? Well, I was born in 63 and this birthday I am 63. So I have actually been 60. This birthday, today, tomorrow, yesterday, if you're watching the video, is actually my 63rd birthday. So it's that weird thing about I was born in 63 and I am 63. You're not rounding it up like normal. No, no, that's what I'm saying. I mean, every time I say on the radio, I'm 63, I get an annoyed text from Dave Norris saying, you're not 63, you're 62, because he and I are the same age. But now I am 63, so I was born in 63 and I am 63. and there's all of this is a long way around leading up the garden path so that you can wish me happy birthday well i wish you a happy birthday and i wish you a happy birthday with this wisdom which i only saw this morning uh which is online from a bloke called the old gray thinker okay yes at 30 you have energy but limited perspective at 50 you have skill but limited time at 67 or 63 if you want your brain has built roads between seemingly unrelated things music informs your gardening, literature shapes how you cook.

4:50Simon Mayo: This is the neurological advantage nobody mentions. We're not fading. We're finally seeing the full picture. There we go. And can I also very quickly give you the full picture on my experience last week with KLM Airways? You were in Croatia. I was in Croatia. It was the Ponto Lopud Film Festival. And we watched the Croatia match live. we watched the croatia match live with the well the one in which they played uh ghana and they won was there another one since then no they played england before that no no no but the one in which they were in which they won 2-1 in which there was a whole thing about there was a goal and then they were not sure whether it was offside and then it was everyone was intense but we were it was outdoor screening of it and they were going nuts they were going absolutely nuts and for the first time I kind of got a sense of, oh, I can see how this might be quite fun to be in a crowd of people when your team, that team, at that point being Croatia, because I think at the same time, England were playing somebody else.

5:53Well, they couldn't be playing the same teams. No, not the same team, but they were playing somebody else. And, oh, I see. That was a, fine. Okay. I don't understand football. Have we gone through what's happened?

6:03Simon Mayo: Well, at the time, at the time of which we are recording the day before your birthday, Yes. Today, England are playing the Democratic Republic of Congo, DRC. And so by the time, we'll either have been beaten embarrassingly by DR Congo or we'll have gone through triumphantly. Okay. All right. Well, I don't know what's happening except for that I was in a, I was in Croatia when they were playing another team and they, and they won and, um, and everyone went mad, but the, but I was in Croatia and, and I, I flew to and from Croatia on KLM airlines who are apparently you said the oldest airline in the world.

6:44That's right, yeah. And so the experience of it was this. Flying out, changed to Amsterdam, they lost their bags. So we arrived in Lopud, they'd lost their bags. And they were in Lopud, and then they found the bags, and then they sent the bags to us just in time for us to get the flight back via Amsterdam, where they lost the bags a second time. So they still don't have the bags. And on the morning of the way back, when we arrived at the airport at four o 'clock in the morning, they said, ah, well, we've overbooked the plane, so you can't fly on it. And then I explained to them in no uncertain terms that I was going to fly on it.

7:22What did you actually say?

7:23Simon Mayo: What was your strategy here? Flattered them with kindness? That's right. I flattered them with kindness. But I did point out that I would have been better off flying with KLF. Yeah. And catching the last train to Transcentral. Exactly. Exactly, or driving an ice cream van across the thing. But yeah, no, literally to lose the bags on the way out and then lose them on the way back. And we still don't have them back, have no idea where they are. They're obviously on a tour of the world at the moment. It's time to kick out the jams, Melon Farmers. Melon Farmers, exactly. I famously played the wrong version of that on Radio 1.

8:03Oh, no, did you? Yeah.

8:06Simon Mayo: You played the MC5 Uncensored? uh yeah it was klf with the mc5 bit and um it because right at the very beginning it says time to kick out the jams and then it's on the radio version that the next bit is reversed uh so it's all perfectly fine then i played one with without it reversed and then the head of music rang up rang into the studio and said take it off take it off there's another one coming there's another one no no no no no i don't think oh there was yes okay i'll take it off i'll take it off now So we had a couple of melon farmers. Yeah. Well, find my bags, melon farmers would have been a...

8:43Simon Mayo: Anyway, you're very welcome to the show, everybody. Mark later, once in his youth, will be getting excited about these films. Yes. So we have reviews of Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie. Minions and Monsters. You will have heard Simon's interview with Pierre Coffin last week. in the chart rundown we have the delayed review of supergirl because as you know they didn't screen that until tuesday night uh which point uh klm were in the process of losing my bags and the invite with our very special guests yeah two of the stars of that film edward norton and olivia wild she's also directed the movie uh and a bonus review in take two mark yeah there is a 50th anniversary reissue of Taxi Driver.

9:32And this will mean something particularly to you, because when we, in a previous incarnation of this show, we did a show from Salford with a, with a whole orchestra doing movie music. And we played the theme from Taxi Driver as part of that concert. And it was one of the highlights of the show. That's right.

9:52Simon Mayo: We didn't say we, we played. Well, we didn't play. No, I was observing. yes Robert Ziegler conducted and the orchestra played the instruments but we sat there and stroked our chins and went well done yeah I remember that show for all all the good reasons because it was fantastic and what a you know what a thrill to do a show with a live orchestra I particularly remember going on air was that two o 'clock or something yeah two o 'clock in the afternoon and and within two minutes the whole orchestra got up and left where the hell are they going and it was it was their break it was time for a break and it was it was a unionized thing and it was it was like well hang on we just started the show could you not have gone beforehand but anyway no they had their regimented breaks and so off they went the other the other thing that i discovered at that show that i hadn't known before is that the way an orchestra applaud is that they stamp their feet do you remember this that they don't and don't violinists and cellists don't they sort of tap their bow against their instrument well i just remember the sound of that because i'm because at that show i played the chromatic harmonica on the theme for midnight cowboy and i'm not a very good chromatic harmonica player but i got away with it and at the end of it they did they very kindly i mean maybe ironically did the stampy feet thing and i thought what are they walking out you know and they said no no that's that's how they applaud how do they applaud sarcastically they yeah i think i think there was definitely was sarcastic foot something in the same way if you if you're holding an instrument that costs maybe hundreds of thousands of pounds you're not going to just put it down to clap are you you're going to do something else what can you do you can stamp your feet that's fine and very slade-esque uh don't forget you can get take two ad free by heading to our patreon page just search uh kermit and mayo patreon and we'll pop right up like the meerkat kings of subscription-based world-class film podcasting.

11:46And we have a special announcement regarding Christmas Spectacular. And this year, it's not in that there, London.

11:53Simon Mayo: Yes, people of Bristol, we're going to be at the Bristol Beacon on December the 6th. Tickets go on sale today, Thursday, July the 2nd, because that's what everyone is thinking of. Mark's birthday! It's Mark's birthday. Buy yourself a present. But the idea of buying things for Christmas before you've gone on summer holidays seems incredible. But obviously there are huge advantages and you can do it via the link in the show notes. Yeah. So if you're in Bristol or Bath or Devizes or Castle Cary or Cardiff or Stroud or Froome or Sirencester, Trowbridge, Cheltenham, Glastonbury, Swindon, Newport, Gloucester, Cumberland, Western Supermare, Tetbury, all of which are an hour or less from Bristol, then get your tickets now.

12:36Green Camel, Nailsworth, Clevedon, Chepstow, Diddlywink, Gorset Knoll, The Pluds, Cat Brain. Okay, thanks. We get it. You can stop now. The Shoe, Nymphknit, Throbwell, Bore Drip, Wookiee Hole, Balls Green, Cockadilly, Tom Tits Bottom and Twatley.

12:57Simon Mayo: So you can't say the team slacked off on the research this week. So yes, to recap. I think I drew the short straw in that particular thing, don't you? It's a Christmas special with me and him on Sunday, December the 6th at the Bristol Beacon. Honestly, it's not even that far from London. So London people, you can come along to. It's not far from Cardiff or Birmingham or Lowestoft Aberdeen or Belfast either. It's actually only a few miles drive from Cornwall as well. It's just up the road. So we'll see you in Bristol. So here we go. We're doing some Christmas planning already. You can do your Christmas shopping on the Saturday and a little bit on Sunday morning.

13:33Simon Mayo: get a pastry and then come along and see us all the details follow the link anyway let's talk about a film that's out that we might want to see so nirvana with two ends the band the show the movie are you aware of any of this at all i haven't seen the film no no no but you're not okay so because this is basically the film adaptation of a tv series that was itself the spin-off of a web series. So it's a Canadian comedy directed by Matt Johnson, written by Johnson and Jay McCarroll. Johnson co-wrote and directed Blackberry from a couple of years ago, for which McCarroll did the music. And as I said, it's based on this long-running thing they've done, Nirvana the Band.

14:16And indeed, the film blends new footage shot for the film with old footage archived from the extensive back catalogue. The film actually opens with what is apparently the very, very first scene of the series, I have to say I'm coming to most of this new because I didn't know this until after having seen the film and then going back and researching it. Other people will know more. So it is an absurdist mockumentary or spinal tappy rockumentary, if you will, with an anarchic, self-reflexive cinematic edge. story focuses around matt and jay who for a long time have played these fictionalized versions of themselves as wannabe pop stars trying to book a gig at a venue for which they have no real set no real songs no real plan no manager and apparently not a huge amount of talent so it is best described to me having not been familiar with the web series or the tv series as a kind of rough and ready, jackass inflected sketch comedy car crash in which Bill and Ted, now being played by Sacha Baron Cohen and Nathan Fielder, decide to accidentally remake Back to the Future by jumping off a tower and skydiving to stardom via a time-traveling jaunt through a preview screening of The Hangover from a previous age.

15:34So it opens with a very Bill and Ted argument. You remember how there's the argument in Bill & Ted? It's right at the beginning of Bill & Ted, in which one of them starts saying that wild stallions cannot make it big until they have a triumphant video. And in order for them to have a triumphant video, they have to have Eddie Van Halen on guitar. And then the other one says, well, we can't get Eddie Van Halen on guitar because we haven't got a triumphant video. So here are two middle-aged heroes, Nirvana, the band. They're trying to get a gig at the Rivoli Club. And one of them suddenly says, Matt says, I've got a plan.

16:07there's flyers that's what you need flyers flyers is the thing that you do and then the other one says yeah but you have to have a gig before you can put up flyers you know no you put up flyers and that's how you get a gig and then all this is captured on kind of handheld gorilla style um handheld cameras and there's a lot of fourth wall breaking because the people who are holding the cameras sometimes get brought into the drama then matt the genius says i've got it i know i know what we have to do in order to become uh in order to get the gig at the rivoli we have to go up the cn tower and jump off it and skydive into the sky dome which is a sports arena where the blue jays are going to be playing and we can do that because you can go up the tower and then there's a there's a walkway thing that you can do but they they strap you on and then we just cut the things and then we and then we jump off and then we parachute down so they now go to a hardware store in preparation for the jump.

16:59I hope this is making more sense to you than it did to me. Here is a clip. So we are going to be up on, um, uh, on the CN tower in one of the, in, on the edge walk where we're wearing the city. I think they put a safety vest on you and we need something that can like cut through the rope or the cable on it. Do you know what I mean? Um, you can, but here's the thing you would shock yourself because if you cut through live wire, you'll get that. Like good. But the, Oh, I'm not cutting through electric. I'm not cutting through fabric. I'm not cutting through a live wire. What happens if we're not even allowed in the security with these?

17:30You will be actually caught. I'm going to say that I need these for... I'm sorry? Drywall compound 243. But I think that... You know what? I don't know. Just be careful, man. I seriously don't think it's worth it. Right. But? I mean, you have the freedom to do this. I'm a libertarian. You have the liberty to do it all over the... But that is, I believe, as a sane person, I should prevent you guys from doing things. So there's that kind of thing about, obviously, that person doesn't know that they're involved in a dramatic sketch. And they're saying, yeah, I don't think you should go up the top of a tower and throw yourself off it.

18:14I mean, obviously, as a libertarian, I believe you have the right to do it, but I don't think so. And there's a lot of that kind of interacting with the public, which seems to be real. Anyway, so when that stunt doesn't work, then they decide to build a DeLorean-style time machine, which is fueled by a long-defunct novelty drink called Orbitz, which apparently is a very funny joke if you're Canadian, to go back in time in order to change history to get the gig at the Rivoli. and one thing leads to another and turns out that the time machine does work and then they find themselves back in a previous incarnation of the world with potentially disastrous butterfly effect style consequences.

18:55So look, it is a very odd movie, particularly for me, if you hadn't seen the web series, you hadn't seen the TV series, you had no idea what was going on at all. Because do you remember Trigger Happy TV when there was a whole thing about... You remember that? I enjoyed Bits of Trigger Happy TV very, very much. I did always think of Tom Jolly. Hello, Tom Jolly, who's a listener. And the stuff with the animals beating each other, people dressed as animals having comedy fights in parks, I always thought was absolutely hilarious. I never knew quite why I found it so hilarious, but I thought it was.

19:27So at first, I have to admit, I just couldn't quite make out what was going on. And when they do the CN Tower bit, I mean, for a start, one thing is I'm terrified of heights. So there's a whole thing in my point of view going on, which is I'm terrified of heights. The second thing is the way in which they're trying to get into the tower, getting through security whilst apparently smuggling parachutes under their clothes. And you're thinking, this can't be real. The security can't actually be letting them through with clearly parachutes smuggled. So there's a certain amount for me at the beginning of what on earth is going on, followed by a, I really, really don't like heights.

20:04And then all the way through, there are these kind of actually rather well done, sleight of hand deceptions between what's real and what's staged. And there's a whole thing in which, you know, with Back to the Future, they're kind of riffing on Back to the Future and the lightning strike and stuff. has to be done. And you're looking at it going, sorry, how much of this do the people around know what's going on? How much of this are the people in on the joke? How much of this is the joke that they're not in on the joke? Because at one point it looks like they're organising a terrorist operation and then everyone is just looking at them like something weird but just a bit odd is going on.

20:44And then the lines between fiction and reality are further blurred by the fact that apparently some of the stuff from later on in the movie, there is news footage that is actually news footage that is repurposed from something else that was going on so what to make of the result so as someone that does sound like a quite hard work well here's an interesting thing and i'm sure that part of this is an age thing okay so from a filmmaking point of view it is i have to say a kind of a really seamless mix of the of the artifice and the reportage to the point that I was genuinely confused about what was going on.

21:21Plus, it has a spectacular set piece in it at the beginning that really gave me the collywobbles in a way that was like, whoa, I'm genuinely unsettled by this. However, for people who are familiar with the series, all this is fine, this is par for the course. This is just like, okay, it's a movie, it's gone bigger, and therefore, Or, you know, the stunts are greater, but the central thing is the relationship between these two central characters, which is kind of the heart of it. I have to say, I personally found myself too distracted by the, sorry, what's the status of this? What's going on to actually enjoy the comedy?

22:02And it's a really weird thing to say, and I know I say quite often, I've got a tin ear for comedy. but I also think that what I've got an anxiety about is sorry hang on what I what what what is where are we are they involved in it are they not involved in it do they know what's going on do they not know what's going on and so from a filmmaking point of view I mean it is really audacious and it it's like and I know I have a couple of younger friends who are very familiar with the series and very familiar with the with the tv show who just thought this was the funniest thing they'd seen and incredibly audacious, which it is.

22:36I felt a little bit as you seem to be feeling from my description, which is it's slightly hard work. I mean, I'm of the generation, I love Bill and Ted and they clearly love Bill and Ted, but I kind of found myself tolerating Matt and Jay as opposed to loving them. And I think that the thing is, if you're already invested in the characters, if you're already familiar with the format, if you're already on board, I think you'd think okay well this is terrific it's doing all the stuff that we want it to do if like me you're going in stone cold because you're a person who's just turned 63 thanks very much um I I found it harder to enjoy than I would have done and the other thing is I found their characters really great I love Bill and Ted I absolutely love Bill and Ted and I would quite happily spend a week in the company of Bill and Ted after a couple of hours in the company of Matt and jay i thought okay that's well done and um i'm gonna go and stand over here now so they but

23:35Simon Mayo: they pronounce it nirvana all the way through even though it's written nirvana for obvious reasons yeah yeah yeah yeah so there's and there's a that apparently is the kind of the the longest standing of the jokes is the confusion about nirvana the band the yes exactly i never really got to the bottom of that but then to be honest with you i i'm not sure that i needed to i mean presumably it's copyright because if you say nirvana the band the show the movie and it hasn't got nirvana in it then you're in trouble no but they're not they're not they're saying nirvana if i mean honestly to be honest with you now that you're bringing it up it never even occurred to me that there was a pronunciation thing but it is n-i-r-v-a-n-n-a the band yeah okay which i would say nirvana but anyway there you go okay so it is for something then you say indiana absolutely indiana wants me that's that's that's i mean that's the way most people i think say it if they actually come from except in the song it's indiana wants me yeah what a strange song that was what a strange song that was okay so uh we're going to take some ads uh and after the break minions and monsters and also the invite our special guests will be ed norton and olivia wilde blimey just a moment

24:56Simon Mayo: Hey Mark Kermode, fancy a fun quick fire quiz? I thought you'd never ask Great, how do you protect yourself from spoilers? Well you never watch the end of the film Well, a bit impractical but fine How do you protect yourself from getting wound up by noisy cinema goers? There's no need, I'm a very tolerant man as you know How do you protect yourself from getting bored of The Exorcist? It's impossible, anyway, shall we start this fun quiz? What's more fun than being well protected? Okay, is that part of the quiz? I'm doing the questions, thank you. How do you protect yourself from online scams? Ah, finally, a sensible question.

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25:42Simon Mayo: Correct. Upgrade your online protection with an all-in-one security app. Head to nordvpn.com slash take to get an exclusive NordVPN deal plus four months extra risk-free.

26:01Simon Mayo: Hello, Mark Kermode. Hello, Simon Mayo. Quick question. What's your autumn signature dish? Why are you asking? Because I suspect the answer is a takeaway. That is deeply unfair. But is it? Sometimes it's delivery. Well, perhaps it's your pans that are holding you back. Food sticking, pans burning, uneven heat. That's unusually generous of you. Gordon Ramsay uses hex clad at home and in his restaurants. You could try them. They combine the searing performance of stainless steel with the convenience of non-stick. So you get great cooking results without the usual clean-up headache. They're dishwasher safe and easy to clean.

26:40Plus, every Hexclad product comes with a lifetime warranty, so they could genuinely be the last pans you'll ever buy.

26:47Simon Mayo: Upgrade to Hexclad and make everyday cooking easier. For a limited time, listeners get 15 % off with our exclusive link at hexclad.co.uk slash take. That's H-E-X-C-L-A-D, hexclad.co.uk forward slash take. Offer excludes bundles and other items already on sale. Support the show and let them know we sent you.

27:20Simon Mayo: OK, here we go with the box office top 10. At number 10, A Private Life. Which I enjoyed. And it's La Vie Privé, Jodie Foster. Like I said, it's an odd movie. It has been referred to by some critics as Hitchcockian, although I think that is kind of just, that's just a word that they fall back on. But I enjoyed it. And it does demonstrate that Jodie Foster can be brilliant in more than one language, which of course is no surprise to anybody. Dockley UK on our YouTube channel, which this week passed a hundred million views. A hundred million? I saw the film last December in France and found it entertaining, although I felt the plot was rather thin.

27:54Simon Mayo: I also seem to remember the ending feeling a little abrupt. Jodie Foster, who could do no wrong, whether performing in English or French, and Daniel Otoi are both superb. Their chemistry is exceptional, and I'd love to see them share the screen again very soon. Very good. So that's Private Life at 10. Number nine is Michael. It's still in the 10. In America, it's 12. 52 million so far taken here, which is just astonishing. I mean, a perfectly well-made one half of the story. Where's the rest of it? Backrooms is at number eight and number six in America. So fifth week in the chart's done very well.

28:28I thought it was creepy and interesting. I think we've had some very, very good emails about the way in which people are interpreting it, which just, I think, go to show that interesting films bear numerous interpretations. Whatever you want to bring to it, it will support.

28:45Simon Mayo: Number seven here, number eight over there, Bleach, Thousand Year Blood War, The Calamity. There's a colon after Bleach, a hyphen after thousand, and a hyphen after war. Lots of punctuation. So this wasn't press screened. This is a spinoff of the manga series. Apparently the plot synopsis says Ishiguro and allies must reclaim the fallen palace to stop total ruin as the thousand year blood war peaks. Haven't seen it. If you have, let us know. Number six is Scary Movie. And moving on. Number five is Obsession. Which is terrific. This is the seventh week in the charts. Obsession cost absolutely nothing.

29:31It's taken 16 million. It's really interesting. It's got great horror performances, like all the best horror movies. It's really about something. And again, we've had numerous interpretations of what it's about. And I think it's really exciting. I think it's really, really exciting that this and Backrooms are both in the top 10, in which they're holding their own against very expensive movies.

29:54Simon Mayo: number four here and there excuse me uh chris walker aged 45 long-term listener first time emailer i'm a huge fan of you both but an even bigger fan of jackass which puts us right down again having been watching them for most of my adult life i'm fairly certain that come the closing credits i'm off to see it on tuesday i'll be welling up it's precisely the shameless and unadulterated affection and love for their friends that has made jackass a hit for 25 years or more. Shameful as some of their behaviour undoubtedly is in a world where men still struggle to open up emotionally, their genuine love and loyalty should be applauded.

30:31Simon Mayo: I understand it's not everyone's cup of tea, but sometimes the derision aimed at them seems a little condescending and haughty. Anyway, love you both, Chris Walker. Well, might I say I did not aim any condescending or haughty derision against the film. I actually said of all of them it was my favorite and the thing that i was surprised by is how much it was in the end about male friendship and the the analogy that i used was that if project hail mary asks can men be friends and the answer is yes but only if the future of humanity is at stake jackass asks can men be friends and the answer is yes but only if they can insert toy cars where the sun don't shine um a funny thing happened with this um which was that the good lady professor her indoors listened to the show whilst driving um between cornwall and somewhere else and she came back in and she was chuckling and i said what are you chuckling about she said simon mayor does this thing which really makes me laugh he's like okay what is that she said in the middle of your jackass review you you described the film and there was a pause and simon mayor went oh dear she said when he does that it's very very funny i didn't know it was something i didn't know it's a thing that I did.

31:44Apparently it's a thing that you do and it's a thing that makes the good lady professor her indoors laugh very much because I said and then they do this and then they do that and then they insert this there and then they put that with a sudden there was a brief pause and you went oh dear.

31:55Simon Mayo: Well I still think you know I'm on air you know because there are other reactions which would be less okay there we go so Jack has number four number three is disclosure day. Here's an email from Mr. Jocelyn Evans. Okay Okay. And I was thinking I hadn't come across a bloke called Jocelyn. So I just looked it up. It was a Jocelyn is originally a male name from an old Germanic word, meaning member of the Goths. Of the Goths? Of the Goths. So Jocelyn is a Goth, basically. Wow. Wow. Dear Hansel and Gretel, having dropped child number one at a college taster day in Manchester and having a few hours free, I decided to take in a surprisingly well-attended morning showing of disclosure day.

32:44Simon Mayo: I'm not sure which I found weirder. There's a 54-year-old man rummaging around in his backpack for a packet of fruit gums to revive me after the umpteenth wearying chase scene, only to hear Colin Firth gently calling my name from the screen. I think he was about to chide me for eating sweets before lunchtime, but then he got distracted by his dead wife, so I ate the fruit gums anyway. also that an alien in civilization with the usp empathy a superpower collectively settled on dressing up as the cast of bambi to abduct and operate on frightened children in their spaceship disguised as the original if gingerbready cabin in the woods given their main procedure appeared to be some type of retinal scan might i suggest future empathetic incursions consider infiltrating a bunch of spec savers for the afternoon and listen don't then keep turning up for years afterwards, gawping through the windows at your victims.

33:36Simon Mayo: Anyway, keep up the good work. Down with something or other. I think it was orange, but my memory's gone blank after a staring contest with a squirrel. Mr. Jocelyn Evans, BA, PhD, also doctor, that causes confusion. Used to be a professor. Yes, I did that too, but now level two England athletics official. Jocelyn sounds as though he's had a wild and crazy life. Yeah, either that or he's a complete fantasist. Yes, you're a complete fraud. It appears to have lived several lifetimes. That's astonishing, all those things. Yes. I feel like I haven't done enough. There's nothing wrong with eating sweets before lunchtime, I think, if needed.

34:15Simon Mayo: Because sometimes you need a sugar rush and fruit gums, very good fruit pastels, also jelly tots, that kind of thing. You should always have them handy. So disclosure date number three. Anything else to say there? We've got more in Overflow Car Park. Yeah, there's more in the Overflow Car Park. And I think let's save further discussion for then. I think it's great that we're getting so much mail about this closure day. I think that's really exciting. Number two is Supergirl. Okay, so as we said last week, the Supergirl press screening was Tuesday evening. The way that national press shows work is that films that open on Friday get screened for the critics on the daytime of Monday and Tuesday.

34:47If they feel that they don't screen something until as late as possible, there's usually two things, either because it's a massive event movie, like No Time to Die or something like that. And they're trying to kind of keep everything secret until the last possible moment. Or it's because they don't have a lot of faith in it. Now, I have no idea what the thinking was with Warners for not screening Supergirl. I did say to them, look, there should be a national press show. And they said, yeah, but there isn't. This is the only one. However, I'm now looking at the Variety headline, which says um supergirl braces for a hundred million dollar loss what dc studios from should learn from its box office bomb so that's it's number two obviously but it has underperformed anyway uh latest dc offering part apparently of dcu's chapter one gods and monsters series i say that as if it means anything to me it doesn't directed by craig gillespie written by anne Aguera starring Millie Olcock as Supergirl which is a role that we previously saw her showcase in last year's Superman if you remember I reviewed that I mean it's funny despite the fact it was only last year I have very little memory of watching that film but I did I asked the internet what I thought of it and apparently I said it was a resolutely good natured throwback which is fine so um it is her I'm going to do a brief review now since I didn't get to do it last week yes it is uh carazor el's uh 23rd birthday she has been on a sort of planet hopping pub crawl as far as we can tell her cousin superman wants her to spend more time on earth but she is clearly on the run from her responsibilities here's a clip from the trailer hey i was just touching base to see when you think you might be coming back you know i'm just worried that you're not going to find your stride here if you keep going off world all the time cara i'm worried you're not gonna find your people yeah well that's the thing clark i have no people

36:57almost wherever you are buddy

37:08crypto and i at least had each other honestly i thought we were lucky but luck almost by definition run down so kind of mumblecore superheroes with pop music so and then Matthias Skarnath's evil and evilly accented Krem of the Yellow Hills poisons Crypto and then she has to go on a mission to find him and get the antidote to save Crypto so it's basically John Wick in as much as it's all about the dog and it's also a bit Hancock do you remember Hancock the film in which I do Will Smith was sort of the you know was a superhero but was now derelict and you know just wanted to drop out. Anyway, along for the ride is Ruthie by Babe Ridley, whose family Krem has killed, but who Kara wants to save from falling prey to vengeance.

38:08So I went to see it at Eastleigh just yesterday. Yeah, yesterday. Well, day before yesterday, if you're listening to this on Thursday. I thought, I mean, it was a weekday screening at six o 'clock. There was about 17 or 18 people in the audience. It's a weirdly over-cluttered mishmash of plot and design ideas. I mean, it's sort of the design is like the dystopia of Blade Runner and Mad Max, but very, very messy. And then take all of that and then throw it into the Mos Eisley Cantina, because essentially it's a sort of Star Wars creatures from around the galaxy. And then just shaking all those things up and seeing if any of them catch fire.

38:50The narrative and the plot are all over the place. None of the individual set pieces connect with any of the other individual set pieces. I mean, like the sets, the whole thing feels really, really overcluttered and underpowered. Jason Momoa seems to be having fun. I wish I was having as much fun as he was. The directing and the editing are really drearily frenetic. And it's kind of that weird thing as if the film is desperately trying to seem exciting by just jumping around all over the place whilst actually being kind of very, very, very staid. There are endless needle drops. There's a bit in which there's a wet leg needle drop.

39:32And I actually really like wet leg and I love Catch These Fists, but it just seemed very self-conscious. None of it was organic. and one of the things it reminded me of i mean people forget this do you remember seeing the original twilight um i do the original twilight had really really good needle drops that actually kind of made you think this is a film with a genuine teen sensibility and this didn't ever feel like that the other the other thing that bothered me about it and this is very much old man shouts at clouds it's a 12a certificate movie and it is 12a for partly uh moderate use of bad language okay the the word that isn't quite shoot that i still consider to be to be a cuss word and we don't use it on the show but apparently in 12a now there is no longer any restriction on on on shoot um and it's just everywhere i mean it's just constant constant constant stuff happens and then someone just goes, shoot.

40:32And then something happens and they go, shoot. And then something else happens and you go, shoot. And then something else happens and somebody goes, shoot. And you go, for heaven's sake. I mean, this is like, you've just got shift, alt, insert, shoot. I mean, at one point I started counting and then I just gave up. And then I realized I'm actually counting the number of times that you use this word. That means that the film really isn't working for me. The BBFC guidance says moderate use of bad language, mild... Actually, no, actually, I can't even read those words out. It's... Yes, no, I can't.

41:15Moderate use of bad language, look it up. I can't read any of those on the show. As for Millie Alcock, I thought she was actually pretty good. And I wish that she had a better film to be good in. Because I thought at the centre of it, there's an interesting idea, which is Supergirl, the way that she plays Supergirl, as this sort of dissolute character who's separated from everything and disenfranchised from everything and doesn't really want to engage with anything other than her dog. And then finding out that she doesn't. There is something in there, but the rest of the movie is just, it's like somebody just overturned a dustbin of ideas onto the screen and went, there, you sort it out.

41:56And it doesn't surprise me, therefore, that it hasn't done well. Moreover, it doesn't surprise me that they didn't want to screen it earlier than they did, because I have the suspicion that they didn't want to screen it because it's all very well to do. First responses to Supergirl are great. People who went to the premiere came out saying things like, I enjoyed it. Yeah, that's always the case. We all know that the first responses things are not good, and it's not good.

42:21Simon Mayo: On the emails here, Susan in Reading. The movie felt like a mixture of True Grit, The Princess Bride and Star Wars, which made for a fun adventure. Okay. Kara's backstory was done really well. The fight scenes were exciting and the dog was absolutely adorable. The fight scenes - Jason Momoa. Sorry, just pause one second. The fight scenes I found were not exciting because the CG was really shonky. Sorry, carry on. And the dog was absolutely adorable. Jason Momoa was perfect in his role. You could tell he was enjoying every moment he was on screen. I also really enjoyed Kara's character arc. The ending sets up what looks like she will be teaming up with Superman and joining the fight with the next big villain.

42:59Simon Mayo: Overall, I had a great time and can't wait to see where the story goes next. Great. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I am genuinely glad you enjoyed it. I wish that I had. Brian Roberts in Chessington. Going to the cinema with my younger daughter is quite a teary time as we're both in the habit of crying during films, which led to people asking us whether we were okay because we looked so upset when exiting the cinema after watching If. I imagine this is the John Krasinski If from 2024. Less about the six laugh test and more about the three cry test most of the time. On that basis, there were times of cinema induced lacrimosity during Supergirl, mainly because of the multiple times of trauma informed decisions in Kara's past, as well as with her companions.

43:45Simon Mayo: And whilst it wasn't as good as Superman, I found the time watching Kara's story to be heartwarming and emotional and well worth the effort of getting out to the cinema. I don't know the background of the production and whether there was any trouble in terms of rewrites or reshoots, but we both very much enjoyed the product. Keep safe and cool and down with the bad and up with the good. Edin Romsey, I went into Supergirl cautiously optimistic after quite liking James Gunn's Superman last year and also wanting to support it after the predictable online backlash to Millie Alcock's casting, who has apparently committed the unforgivable sin of not being Sidney Sweeney.

44:21Simon Mayo: I came out headachy and irritated. It feels like Craig Gillespie trying to make a gun style film without quite pulling it off. There are colourful characters and decent performances. Alcock and Jason Momoa are both good, but they never really land. The visuals are oddly muddy, the villain forgettable, and the jukebox soundtrack lacks Gunn's knack for the perfect needle drop this was my first cinema trip in a while as i've been home post-op with my dog so thanks to simon for the does the dog die tip for gamers there's a lovely equivalent can you pet the dog apparently that's in inverted commas down with all of that and up with all of the other anyway love the show steve uh ed in romsey for supergirl well i mean i'm i'm very much i'm very much on the same page as ed from romsey um however i am pleased to hear the two previous emailers had gone and enjoyed it in that when in the screening that i was in in eastley there was a line of people just immediately ahead of me um uh pretty much uh half half boys half girls um they're about 14 15 and sort of, you know, slightly gothy looking.

45:31And as they came out, they seemed to have thought it was all right. One of them was pointing out that it was exactly the same story as something else. And they were having a kind of, you know, but they didn't seem to have hated it, but they didn't seem to have loved it either. At least that was, to my eye, that's what it looked like.

45:51Simon Mayo: That's at number two. Toy Story 5 is number one here and number one in America as well. Nick Reed from Masson. Long-term listener, occasional emailer, proud sneaker of a hello to Jason Isaacs onto Only Connect. After hearing Mark's review, we went to Toy Story mainly for completism and a bit of shade because that was a very good reason for going to the cinema in the recent heat wave. But leaving a sold-out screening full of laughing, misty-eyed families, we both said, what film did Mark see? There's plenty of plot, but it all comes together neatly. The army of buzzes, the gadgets, Jesse's abandonment issues, Woody with Bo Peep, and Duke Caboom's return.

46:34Simon Mayo: It's also refreshing to have a toy story centered on female characters without being didactic. John Cusack is a standout in a top-form cast, and Bullseye is a perfect sidekick. Sorry, Joan Cusack, obviously. The magic is absolutely still there, alongside Pixar's usual care and technical brilliance, especially the gorgeous funny pastel imagination sequences we laughed and cried one moment hitting at least an eight on the toy story three parents sobbing scale the message is that children's challenges are timeless even if the toys change not as good as toy story three few things are but still superior pixar i'd happily watch just one more and another after that tickety-tonk down with bullies cyber and otherwise from nick reed okay well again i'm really glad that you enjoyed it and i'm really glad that you got that out of it and i'm sort of jealous that i didn't um it is worth saying once again that all criticism is subjective and surprisingly enough even though i didn't like toy story 5 at all i think the fact that it's filling cinemas out and people are going to see it and having positive responses to it is a positive thing.

47:46I don't like the movie. I think it felt very artificial and lacking in the moments that you found in it. But that's as much to do with what I really need from Toy Story. Because Toy Story has been a big part of my life. And it's been a big part of Simon and Mai's relationship on air. And so maybe I just have higher expectations for it. And also, it is possible that if you go and see a film after you've heard bad things about it, it's easier to see the good things in it. This is why people always say, oh, you know, you ruined the movie for me by, you know, you didn't say this, but other people say, you ruined the movie for me by being down on it.

48:26Weirdly enough, sometimes going in having been told that something isn't any good. I mean, I went to see Supergirl really hoping that it was going to be really good because I'd heard slightly sniffy things about it. And then I was disappointed.

48:40Simon Mayo: So, Correspondence at Codemo.com, if you've seen any of those who just want to get in touch with the program, there'll be more discussion on current films, including Supergirl and Jackass and Toy Story 5, in the Overflow car park in take two, available via Patreon. Special guests Ed Norton and Olivia Wilde in just a moment.

49:02This episode is brought to you by Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Hey everyone, this is Jonathan Van Ness from Getting Better. You know what you believe. Maybe your faith is at the center of your life. Maybe you're still figuring it out. Maybe religion just isn't your thing. Those choices are personal, and in America, they should stay personal. That's why Americans United for Separation of Church and State is fighting for something that affects all of us. The freedom to live as yourself and believe as you choose, so long as you don't harm others. Because religious freedom isn't just about protecting your right to practice or not.

49:37And it surely isn't about having one forced government-sanctioned religion. It's about protecting your right to say, this is what I believe, while your neighbor says, I believe something completely different. And honestly, that's the whole point. If that sounds like the kind of America you want, learn more at au.org slash gettingbetter. Because your beliefs are yours, and theirs are theirs. Want to be the one who's always in the know about the game, the scores, the plays? Here's a tip. The Apple Sports app. Just pick your favorite teams and get automatic live updates without even knowing their schedules.

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50:32Simon Mayo: So our guests this week are Edward Norton and Olivia Wilde. uh, Olivia, as you know, actor, director, producer, screenwork includes house, Tron legacy and book smart. Of course, the acclaimed coming of age comedy that marked her directorial debut. Ed Norton. Wow. What's to say three time Oscar nominee known for primal fear, American history X, although I still try and forget that. And of course, famously fight club and one of the most consistently acclaimed actors of his generation. You can hear our conversation with them after this clip from The Invite.

51:33This shirt, it's nice, it looks really good on you. Well, you could tell me that once in a while.

51:42Take them off? I don't give a if you take your shoes off. For me, no gluten, no dairy, no meat, no sugar. Oh no! Is there something I've been wanting to talk to you about? We also have something we wanted to talk to you about.

52:01Simon Mayo: That is a clip from The Invite. I'm delighted to say we've been joined by two of its stars, Ed Norton and Olivia Wilder, who also directs the movie. Olivia and Ed, hello, how are you? Great, thank you. So thank you very much indeed for your time. I really appreciate it. Olivia, you're the director of the movie as well as one of its stars. Introduce us to The Invite. What do we need to know? Sure. OK, The Invite is a comedy, a dark comedy, maybe-ish, dark-ish? No, funny. A funny comedy about a dinner party gone terribly wrong or terribly right, depending on your perspective. And it's about a couple, Joe and Angela, played by Seth Rogen and myself, who are hosting our upstairs neighbors, played by Penelope Cruz and Edward Norton.

52:46And it is a social experience fraught with a large amount of tension and conflict and hilarity, we hope.

52:59Simon Mayo: OK. And what kind of explain who Angela is? What kind of a person is she? Angela is a very tightly wound spring. She is someone who has put so much significance on this one evening during which the movie takes place that it is sort of existentially necessary for her to pull this night off in order to, in her mind, impress. Yeah, stay alive, really. She needs to impress them in order to stay alive. She's desperate to feel that she and her husband, Joe, can have one normal night that they could potentially make friends and be normal. And it seems impossible for them. OK, so, Ed, you're part of the raunchy couple upstairs.

53:48Simon Mayo: Introduce us to Hawk. What kind of guy is he? He's a bit of an enigma. I think he seems.

53:59I don't want to give too much away. I think that you, I think by design, you don't really know what this couple from upstairs is after. I think that, I think he's someone who presents one way and who we're going to learn a lot about as the course of the evening goes on. That's a very enigmatic answer. Yes, well, there are, you know, there are a lot of the pleasures of this film are the unexpected twists in what you learn about the collision of these two couples. And I think that's the ride, you know. Yeah, I do think the less you know, the better. I think this isn't a film full of what I would call trickery.

54:58It's it's a lot of it. There's a lot of humanity in it. And I think the pleasures of it for people are are actually seeing themselves, seeing their own foibles and their own, you know, aspirations and unsaid, unsaid inner lives, unspoken inner lives reflected and revealed. Okay, since Eddie's being slightly enigmatic, may I say two things? Firstly, I think it absolutely is a dark comedy. I mean, it is funny, but it is absolutely very, very dark. Second thing is, obviously, it's based on a film which itself was adapted from a play, a Spanish film, a Spanish play, People Upstairs. How close, if at all, is this to the source material?

55:42It's very different from the source material, but I think at its core, what it maintains is the question, can two people who have been together for a long time still maintain a sense of intimacy and that can be interpreted in several different ways? And how do people survive within relationship? You know, that is something that I think is... Yeah, and if they've lost something, can it be recovered? Can it be recovered? But we approach it in a very different way than the original. And it is also something that's been adapted into other languages and other cultures. But this version is very specific to this group of actors interpretation of that question about relationships.

56:32But it is it is very different. And the dedication to Diane Keaton. I mean, it seemed to me that this was a film from, in my experience, a different era. there was a period that I remember in which it was possible to make adult comedies, comedies dealing with grown up themes, which were quite complex, often French movies dealing with bourgeois anxiety. And that was funny. And this does seem to be of that generation of filmmaking. Yes, that was the intention. And we all grew up being so inspired by those movies and the experience of watching them in theatres. And so that's what we wanted to create for people.

57:10Absolutely.

57:12Simon Mayo: I'm looking at the picture of you guys in the hotel, and you seem to be as color-coordinated as you are in the movie. This is accidental. We were just joking about that. I'm horrified. We both made a monochromatic bet, and Olivia won. I don't know how I did this so perfectly accidentally, but I am blending in with the room. Can you even see her pants? Angela. Can you even see her separated? The stand blends in with the walls of the house and I blend with the walls of the house. The curtains, the tiles, the light stand behind you, the chairs that you're sitting on, it all works perfectly. And the reason I mention that is that there is a scene that you guys have together where clearly a lot of work has gone into the design of this apartment, which looks amazing.

57:57Simon Mayo: And you've got three different types of blue on the wall. OK, and Ed, because your character is in tune with this kind of thing, is fascinated by the interior decor. And Olivia, your character is saying, but, you know, which one? And and then I'm thinking to myself, but they all look the same. And that's exactly what Seth Rogen, you say, that's what my husband thinks. They all look the same. So I felt very seen at that moment. Oh, good. Yes, I too felt seen because that was based on a conversation with our brilliant production designer, Jade Healy, who was asking me to choose the colour for the apartment of the set and kept following me around with these three paint swatches.

58:36And I said, but Jade, they're all the same colour. And she's like, oh no, you must be colourblind. And so we put that in the film. But I think the fact that Hawk and Angela bond over that really says everything because he understands how different those shades are. And that was one of my favourite scenes in the film.

58:54Simon Mayo: Can I do a shout out also for your sound team? Yes. Because there is a lot of overlapping dialogue in this film. Well observed. Well observed. Where you're all talking at the same time, and yet we can hear what everybody is saying. So whoever it was is incredible. Steve Morrow, he is the best. And that was my dream, was to be able to have everyone overlap. I said, can we try for a Robert Altman effect where people can just speak over each other. No one will ever be asked to hold a line in order for another person to speak. And he said, absolutely, have at it. And it just really involves a very difficult process of live mixing and holding each person's mic in a way that allows them to be isolated.

59:43And I never had any trouble in post with all of that. And I just, I'm so lucky that we had Steve on board.

59:51Simon Mayo: And is that where your rehearsal period actually worked a lot? because it feels as though you're improvising. Is that true, Ed? I would say there was probably more improvisation in this film than any I've done out of 50 films I've done. I think I've never been involved in anything where the director said, these are the basic foundational things that probably need to happen in the scene, but let's just go riff it.

1:00:27Olivia and I walking through the apartment, taking the tour and the paint swatches is an emblematic example because most, I don't think any of that was scripted really. We, and definitely has one of my favorite lines of Olivia's in the whole film, like, you know, seeking renovation without change. and I think so yes lots and lots of improvisation I think Seth is one of the funniest one liner machines that any of us know and Penelope is a brilliant she'll get immersed in a thing and come out with stuff like smoking the joint and saying I can't or I'll start counting things like it was great fun in that sense but then I think I think there was another layer that was interesting, which was Olivia kind of...

1:01:20And she asked each of us to hold on to, you know, having almost like secrets that we could bring out on each other. So quasi-scripted, but only by each of us. But we were allowed to bring them into the scene and get authentic reactions off of each other. The thing I would kind of say overall is that Olivia created for the four of us a very singular experience in the sense of a space in which we could operate, in which there was nothing wrong that we could do. She was prepared with her team to capture very beautifully anything that happened within the space. So we had this enormous physical liberation within the space, which is unusual.

1:02:16And then I think an incredible, not just allowance for, but enthusiasm for discovery and uncertainty about where things were going, which is anathema to most directors. I think most people want to exert control to shape and sculpt in the course of actually performing. And Olivia did the opposite. She really, she almost, you know, she did things that almost, I think, felt reckless to me in the sense of saying, I don't actually know where this movie is going to end. I don't know what the final scene of the movie is going to be. and we won't know until a couple weeks in to shooting, which there were people around the perimeter having heart attacks, but she didn't.

1:03:07She remained very cool.

1:03:09Simon Mayo: Would you say, Ed and Olivia, this is to both of you, if anyone says to you, would you like a tour of the apartment, you should always say no. Oh, no, I think you should say yes. You should always say yes. Do you think? Absolutely. I love a tour of an apartment. okay well uh ed and olivia thank you very much indeed for talking to us also thank you for putting a big title sequence at the beginning of a movie uh the way it felt entirely appropriate and uh ed also the last time you were on was to talk about motherless brooklyn and the music from that movie is still when whenever i'm feeling exhausted i listen to daily battles both the tom york version and the winter masalis version and i feel better so thank you so much wow thank Thank you for your time, Olivia.

1:03:56Simon Mayo: Thank you for your time, Ed. Thank you. Ed Norton and Olivia Wilde, who starred in this movie with Seth Rogen and Penelope Cruz. I realised that I hadn't mentioned Penelope Cruz properly when we were doing the questions. So this is a fascinating film. Like you were saying, Mark, it feels very old. On the one hand, it feels very progressive because this is certainly, whether it's dark comedy or not, it's an adult comedy. This is not a date movie, I would suggest. but it does it's it's a four-hander it's an old-fashioned stage play turned into a movie it is so just a bit of sort of nuts and bolts background so um it is technically it's an adaptation of a 2020 spanish comedy people upstairs by just gay um the original is about a bickering couple who invite the couple upstairs for dinner having heard them having very loud fun times and that film began life as a stage play which makes sense because a forehand are taking place in an apartment of course it makes sense that comes from from a stage place and this is adapted by will mccormick and rush the jones of the screenwriters the project was originally developed in 2021 for jonathan dayton valerie farris who are the people that made little miss sunshine and battle of the sexes now you remember that you and i very much like battle of the sexes and at that point it was going to start amy adams paul rod and tessa thompson that production stalled then it was relaunched with olivia wilde directing and co-starring with ed norton pelby cruz just said and seth rogan of course seth rogan and olivia wilde worked together before there's that episode of the studio remember the episode of the studio in which she's the she's the runaway director who steals the can of film from her own movie because she wants she wants to get the scene reshot.

1:05:45So as was probably apparently, it was funny when Ed Norton said he didn't want to say anything about what the plot's about. Well, you have to have a certain amount. I mean, essentially, we meet Angela, who is Olivia's character, in her apartment awaiting the arrival of Joe, played by Seth Rogen, who is now this worker schlub with a bad back who seems to hate his life, hates his bike, hates his lot. He used to be in a band who had a hit at some point. Now he's a disillusioned drone who won't even go anywhere near his keyboard. And they've got this scratchy relationship. She tells him to take his shoes off.

1:06:18He complains that she does nothing but buy rugs and redecorate the apartment all the time. She berates him for not remembering the fact that the people upstairs are coming down to see the apartment, to see all the renovations they've been doing for all this time. And he snaps back that she never told him that they were coming. And then she says, well, I did tell you, and you've forgotten to bring the wine. And then he tells her that if they are going to come, I'm going to have the conversation with them about all the noise that they make up. She says, please don't do that. And they're in the middle of the argument when the doorbell rings, bing-bong, and there are Hawke, played by Ed Norton, and Pina played by Penelope Cruz.

1:06:48And they seem very nice, if a bit touchy-feely. And he compliments her decor decisions, the rug, the interior design. You were mentioning the thing about the three shades of blue. And this proves very annoying to Joe. Meanwhile, it turns out that Pina, the woman of the couple, is a therapist. and then we get to discover how they met each other, how they met each other through therapy, and in fact the kind of life that they are now living, which is completely the opposite, like absolutely the opposite of the life that the first couple that we met are living. So as I said before, there is the invocation of Diane Keaton, and it is, in my opinion, the sort of grown-up, when you say adult, meaning grown-up, rather than adult meaning porn, which thank you, America, for taking the word adult and turning it into something else.

1:07:41comedy that flourished in the 70s, largely atrophied later on, which is a movie about relationships, both emotional and physical. I mean, it is interesting that it seems to have taken a remake of a Spanish film to give America this kind of material. I thought the whole thing was excruciating in a very good way. It reminded me at times of the tone of, there's a play called God of Carnage, which is a play that I really, really liked by Yasmina Reza. And that was then filmed as Carnage. And the film of Carnage was terrible. But the play of God of Carnage, which I saw, was really good. And it's that thing about, it's the bourgeois satire about people stuck together in a place and attempting to maintain an appearance of normality whilst everything around them is falling apart and whilst their inner demons are sort of rising up before you, but all under the kind of cloak of a polite engagement.

1:08:42Oh, a dinner party, dinner party, what could possibly go wrong? Oh, I don't need me. I don't need that. I don't need this. And you lot make a lot of noise upstairs and you seem to be arguing with each other quite a lot. And you've got a weird relationship. And there's one point in which Seth Rogen, I think pretty everyone delivers the line, oh, F off, Hawk. And I think it's pretty much the only point in the thing at which the kind of, the open hostility suddenly rears its head. The performances are very good. I mean, Seth Rogen and Olivia Wilde as the bickering malcontents who have forgotten why they were once in love are really, really, you get, you know, you get that sense of they've just grown weary of each other.

1:09:20Meanwhile, the Ed Norton and Penelope Cruz characters, these sort of smug free spirits whose smiling openness actually hide something. Because again, there's a moment where the Ed Norton's character is really passive aggressive. He constantly, no, you know, everything's, yeah, that's very open. I admire your truthfulness. And at one point he gets, I'll stop interrupting. You know, you're always doing that. You're always correcting me. You're always correcting me. And at times I was kind of, at times I was like almost kind of burying my face in my hands because that thing about that, that the, uh, the comedy of anxiety, the comedy of the, the, the, the facade of normality collapsing is very, I find it both compelling and very, very difficult.

1:10:05But I thought it had real energy to it. And what worked was, and this is what I particularly agree with Ed Norton about not really going further into the plot, is that each new revelation happens with a degree of balance that it's not like suddenly a huge, ridiculous leap. It's as you discover the things about these couples, they're all discovered sort of just by scratching away at the surface. And I think Ed Norton is particularly good at being particularly slimy. I think Seth Rogen is very, very good at being convincingly frustrated. I think that Olivia Wilde's character looks like she is one cracked smile away from completely blowing her top.

1:10:47And I think that Penelope Cruz, in this kind of very funny, very imperious way, is like the only character who appears to be in control of her surroundings until the moment that she isn't. And I do think that any film in this day and age, particularly an American film, that addresses any kind of grown-up adult subject matter in a way that needs to be sort of embraced. And it's interesting that the bidding war that this provoked after it was first played was won by A24. And that kind of makes sense because they've kind of carved the niche in horror and surrealism and that area. I mean, I enjoyed it very much.

1:11:30I'm very interested to know what you thought of it because your and my taste in excruciating comedy is slightly different.

1:11:35Simon Mayo: Yeah. Well, it was excruciating, but I did enjoy it. And just on Olivia Wilde's choices to where it ends up, she was absolutely emphatic that this is a cinematic release and she said no to the streamers. So in that sense, again, it's traditional. I mentioned just at the end of the interview about there is a title sequence at the beginning like it always used to be. Now films just start and you get the titles at the end. But I thought one of the strengths was that each of the four characters, and there are only four characters apart from an orchestra that you see briefly at the beginning, is sort of intriguing and almost worth a movie.

1:12:17Simon Mayo: You know, how did you end up like this? They're three-dimensional characters. It's not that there's two and then there's a slightly kind of sketchy couple. And there's some weird stuff, and I mean this in a good way, which is clearly deliberate. First of all, it's very strange they don't have any wine at all. One of the things Seth Rogen has failed to do is to bring the wine. That was his job. But they also don't appear to have any wine glasses. And they go, oh, there's something strange going here. And the ending is splendidly enigmatic, and you'll talk about the ending. Okay, do you feel that's hopeful?

1:12:53Simon Mayo: feel depressed i don't know what do you you know what do you think so i thought there there were some very intriguing things and there's some and it's laugh out loud funny and it is not a date movie no but it's also funny because you mentioned the thing about at the beginning there's the orchestra okay and i've almost completely forgotten that it actually begins with seth rogan's character you know have it he's meant to be commenting on a performance of a piece and he's just and he's just, he's not listening. And the orchestra performed this piece and they looked at him and he goes, yeah, yeah, just do it again.

1:13:26And then he goes off and he gets on his bike. And by the time he gets home, I've almost completely forgotten that his job actually does involve doing something of any musical involvement at all, because he's so paranoid about ever, you know, the whole thing about he won't play the keyboard anymore. And he won't play the keyboard because his dream of being a pop star didn't happen. And so when I refer that thing about a workish love, he does seem to be somebody who's just stuck in a job that he's not interested in anymore. He's not, he hasn't got any, he's got no, although he's still working in music, you know, he's still working in music.

1:14:04Music is still his love. Music was his first love and it will be his last, but he's just treating it like an office job. Yeah.

1:14:10Simon Mayo: Yeah. And, and then, and then it becomes the forehand play uh which you know which we were talking about um but uh i so i think it's going to be uh i don't know what awards it might win but i think it's going to be a huge hit because it is it's laugh out loud funny for big movie stars and i'd forgotten how funny ed norton could be so i thought it was i thought it was a big hit really i i think ed norton is very very funny i mean i think ed norton is hilarious in fight club but i think ed norton has got absolutely brilliant comic timing you know and i and i i yeah i do like that i i do like the idea that his character who seems to be so kind of you know yeah no yeah you know you're being honest just be like honesty as he's as he's as annoying as he is don't watch it with your kids don't watch it with your parents, watch it with some friends, I would think.

1:15:10Simon Mayo: And so this is an enigmatic question, Mark. Did you feel encouraged at the end? Well, there's a question at the end that just before we did the interview, we were raising about, I mean, obviously one of the things that the drama has to do is it has to find a way of concluding. And I think the conclusion, um, my own feeling, I'm without giving this away, my own feeling was that in the course of the drama, everything had gone to pieces and I'm not sure that, that I, that I buy the finale finale, but then, And, you know, maybe that's just because I was, I can't imagine coming out of an evening like that and ever looking anyone in the face again.

1:16:06Yeah.

1:16:06Simon Mayo: I think Seth Rogen's character thinks one thing and Olivia Wilde's character thinks the opposite. Thinks another thing. Okay, fine. So actually, that's right. So the ambivalence is, yeah. The ambivalence is no, no, it is. And built in, and built in. And that's exactly what you're supposed to think. We'd love to know what you think, of course. Correspondence at kerbidamayor.com. Child 3 sent me a message this morning saying, how's the laughter lift looking? Yes. And I said, well, it's full, but, you know, there's always room for improvement. So the question is, Mark, how much room for improvement is there?

1:16:41Simon Mayo: Okay, that's your question that you have to assess. You're the sole arbiter on this. Okay. So here we go. Play the music.

1:16:52Simon Mayo: I think this music is great, actually. It's lovely, isn't it? I whistle this sometimes walking down the street.

1:17:01Simon Mayo: Anyway, yeah. I hope you've been enjoying the Norwegian rowing celebration. Have you at the World Cup, have you been enjoying that? Well, I've seen it. I've seen people doing it in the streets. Oh, OK. Well, it's great that Norway threw to the round of 16 by beating Ivory Coast. I'm sure you were watching that on your television. I wasn't. Clearly that's news to you. Did you hear the story this week about one of their top fans, Olaf the Viking, who was out shopping at a New Jersey supermarket when he comes across a little old lady in a mobility scooter, visibly upset? Whatever is the matter, old American lady, asks Olaf, with typical Norwegian bluntness.

1:17:41Simon Mayo: Oh, sobs the old lady, I wanted to have a look at the frozen puddings, but as you can see, there are five steps down into the chiller cabinets. No problem, says Olaf the Viking, lifting her onto his back. I'll take you. Olaf strolls through the chiller cabinets with a little old lady on his back. She picks out several delicious puddings and pops them in the basket he's carrying for her. At the other end, the old lady's husband is waiting with her mobility scooter. I'd really like to thank you, says the old lady, as Olaf gently places her back down in the seat. But I've no idea who you are. All I know is that you're here for the World Cup.

1:18:16Simon Mayo: Olaf just waves and walks off. I was really worried about you, Barbara, says the old lady's husband. What have you been doing? I've been through the desserts on a Norse with no name, says she.

1:18:31Simon Mayo: Wow. Wow. I mean, again, it works as a written joke, because deserts and desserts, one letter apart changes the whole emphasis of the word. But anyway, top American joke, as in American. Wow. Wow. Well, I mean, I spent a lot of it wondering where it was going to, and then it didn't disappoint. Good. Okay. I mean, the funniest joke about Horse With No Name by America is a figure is it chris rock anyway some american comedian who basically said you would think after spending all that time in the desert you'd have worked out a name for the blessed horse but anyway uh but that was always like danny baker's observation about the thin lizzie song tonight there's going to be a jailbreak somewhere in this town probably the jail yeah that was danny who thought of that first it was it's oft repeated anyway still to come still to come Minions and Monsters.

1:19:31Simon Mayo: Yes.

1:19:36Simon Mayo: Hello, Mark Kermode. Hello, Simon Mayo. Quick question. What's your autumn signature dish? Why are you asking? Because I suspect the answer is a takeaway. That is deeply unfair. But is it? Sometimes it's delivery. Well, perhaps it's your pans that are holding you back. Food sticking, pans burning, uneven heat. That's unusually generous of you. Gordon Ramsay uses Hexclad at home and in his restaurants. You could try them. They combine the searing performance of stainless steel with the convenience of non-stick. So you get great cooking results without the usual cleanup headache. They're dishwasher safe and easy to clean.

1:20:16Plus, every Hexclad product comes with a lifetime warranty, so they could genuinely be the last pans you'll ever buy.

1:20:23Simon Mayo: Upgrade to Hexclad and make everyday cooking easier. For a limited time, listeners get 15 % off with our exclusive link at hexclad.co.uk slash take. That's H-E-X-C-L-A-D, hexclad.co.uk forward slash take. Offer excludes bundles and other items already on sale. Support the show and let them know we sent you. This episode is brought to you by Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Hey everyone, this is Jonathan Van Ness from Getting Better. You know what you believe. Maybe your faith is at the center of your life. Maybe you're still figuring it out. Maybe religion just isn't your thing.

1:21:05Those choices are personal, and in America, they should stay personal. That's why Americans United for Separation of Church and State is fighting for something that affects all of us. The freedom to live as yourself and believe as you choose, so long as you don't harm others. Because religious freedom isn't just about protecting your right to practice or not. And it surely isn't about having one forced government-sanctioned religion. It's about protecting your right to say, this is what I believe, while your neighbor says, I believe something completely different. And honestly, that's the whole point.

1:21:39If that sounds like the kind of America you want, learn more at au.org slash gettingbetter. Because your beliefs are yours, and theirs are theirs.

1:21:55Simon Mayo: Right, before we get to Minions, an interesting email from Alexis, who sends us this, which looks like a social media post, from the Kapiti Coast community page in New Zealand. So we had Leo Woodall on the show talking about Tuna, and we were saying he didn't seem enormously kind of fluent when it came to actually saying much about the film. He found it hard to talk about the role, I think. Okay, so the Capiti Coast community page, Shoreline Cinema, what can I, says, We may be a small out-of-the-way cinema, but you never know who you may be watching a movie with, as so happened last Sunday. Staff served a handsome young man waiting to go into the afternoon session of tuna.

1:22:42Simon Mayo: Sitting below the poster with his face all over it was none other than Leo Woodall, the English actor currently on the Up and Up. when recognized he explained that he hadn't seen the film since it was completed 18 months ago respecting his wishes for privacy we won't publish any pictures but if you do want to see him the tuna is at the shoreline is your best bet uh and he sat in seat d1 in case you want to do that anyway now he's currently in in new zealand filming lord of the rings the hunt forgotten which is what he did say also in the interview yeah but maybe he's just it's a long time ago and he's forgotten.

1:23:17Yes. I mean, we often forget that at the point that we interview people about films, it was two years ago that they made it. And I was just saying in my review of Supergirl that I had to go to the internet to look up what I thought of Superman from last year because it had had so little impact that I couldn't remember at all. And if you're constantly working, and I suppose if you're an actor, every time you get into the next role, i suppose you have to kind of effectively wipe the memory clean and start again with the next character so if you're four or five movies down the way and you're saying you know what was it i don't know maybe maybe you're just struggling and particularly if you haven't seen it because that has happened quite a lot before hasn't it you have you have interviewed actors it's never happened with directors obviously but interviewed actors who haven't actually seen the finished Oh, yeah.

1:24:10Simon Mayo: Some people famously never want to watch. And I say, well, so I've seen the movie and you haven't and you're the star of the film. Yeah. Anyway, just one thing. You might have seen this being a reader of Private Eye in the Bath with a Beer. Dave has sent in a little clipping from the current Private Eye, which has got a photograph of you and a photograph of Pete Hegseth. And underneath Pete Hegseth it says Young Kermode, and underneath you it says a photograph of you from many years ago. Secretary for War and Simon Blake on a letter says did Pete Hegseth have a rant about the poor quality of sex in the city too when he was presenting the movie review show on Radio 5 Live conversely did Mark Kermode purge the Pentagon of senior military officials I think we should be told so basically never mind you being more like Nixon now you appear to be more like Pete Hegseth I'm sure you'll be thrilled with that Pete Kegsbreath that's the worst yet I mean you know I used to look like Nixon, then Michael Gove, now Pete Kegsbreath.

1:25:13Wow. You're getting the wrong way, basically. And it actually says young Kermode underneath it, which is like making a big point about, I look like that now, but now I look old. What a terrible thing. Incidentally, on the subject of Nixon, did you hear the hilarious J.D. Vance thing saying, yeah, well, you know, if Watergate happened now, it may be a 12 hour news cycle. I mean, you know, and it's like, yeah, we do know, We know exactly what you mean, J.D. Vance, because your government is so corrupt that Watergate literally looks like a 12-hour news cycle in comparison. It's just that when you said it out loud, you didn't say it like that.

1:25:44You said it like it was a good thing that Watergate would have been a 12-hour news cycle.

1:25:48Simon Mayo: Correspondence at cobertamay.com. Thank you very much, Steve, for all the correspondence coming in. Meantime, minions and monsters. Here we go. Use certificate for very mild comic violence, threat, and rude humor. And I'm sorry, but never has a BBFC certificate felt more like a solid endorsement. So Minions creator, Pierre Coffin, he's a French animator, voice artist, co-director of Despicable Me movies and Minions movies. And he was the guest on the show last week. And you interviewed him. You'd interviewed him before. I'm still very jealous because I've never interviewed him. And it was a great interview.

1:26:22And you said, tell me about getting work on the project. And he said, well, I made this because I never wanted to make another Minions film. And then Chris Melodandry pitched him the idea. And the idea that he pitched was Minions wanting to make a monster movie and then summoning a monster which turns against the Minions and starts destroying the earth, meaning the Minions have to correct their blunder once again. But he had me at Minions wanting to make a movie. And I thought it was lovely firstly to have somebody say, this began by me never wanting to make another Minions movie. and then somebody pitches me idea and I go, okay, well that'll do.

1:26:58So he said immediately, his idea was, well, we set it in Hollywood in the twenties when, and again, to quote, to quote Pierre Coffin from your brilliant interview, when film became an industry and I could reference people coming over from East Germany and building studios and making films, there was so much context. So the context here is this is the story of two minions, and Henry and James. And that has to be a Henry James joke, right? Henry and James. You would imagine so. But, and without whom Hollywood, as we now know it, would not exist. James is a creative one. He likes to draw. He likes to tell stories and ultimately to make movies.

1:27:38And you suggested that he is basically Pierre Coffin. You said, that's him. It's you, right? You know, you like to sit, you like to draw, you like to tell stories. That's you. And Pierre Coffin said, well, I don't know. you know maybe but i'm not sure anyway he finds his nirvana in hollywood here's a clip

1:28:06first things first who are you My name is Henry. James. And my name is Dick. Ah, and this is Ed.

1:28:16Simon Mayo: I'm Peter. Emilio and Ken. Emilio and Alfonso. Patrick. Patrick. Hey, is there a name I can just call all of you? Uh, Minions. Look, Minions, my name is Max. Hello, Max! Yeah, hi! Okay, I'm so sorry about earlier. So, I would like to work with you. We should make movies. Movies? Movies. Movies.

1:28:45I'm sorry, I just want to watch the whole film again. So Christoph Waltz there as movie maker Max, who brings the Minions into the studio. And there they encounter a range of colourful characters, including the green, flappy-faced Gary Orkham Oliver Magma Ichabod the Deceiver, Gumi to his friends, who then becomes the portal through which all the other monstrous stuff starts happening. So essentially what you've got is, this is a Minions movie in which the action centers on early cinema, Chaplin, Keaton, Lloyd, and mid-century science fiction and monster movie riffs, and Day the Earth is still the blob.

1:29:28Now, I love the Minions, right? I think we all know that. I love early cinema, Chaplin, Keaton, Lloyd. I love mid-century sci-fi, Dave Yersfield, The Blob. Somebody put a post on social media, on Instagram, which said, I've just seen the description of the new Minions movie. Kermode is going to explode. And so it was. Firstly, the level of cine literacy in this movie is off the charts. I mean, from the sort of fleeting sight gags about the Lumiers and Melies, alongside all those kind of the slapstick icons, which is obviously the genre in which the Minions have always absolutely excelled. I mean, the Minions are, for me, the modern day incarnation of Keaton and Lloyd and Chaplin in terms of the slapstick humour.

1:30:18And this fantastical science fiction on which I grew up. I mean, I grew up watching sci-fi reruns on television. You know, I loved Star Trek, but I really, really loved old science fiction movies. It was just a rollercoaster, absolute rollercoaster. You called it, in your conversation with Pierre Cafain, You called it a joy-filled 90-minute cinematic experience, which is a great phrase, which I think they should put that on the poster. Simon Mayo, a joy-filled 90-minute cinematic experience. But you also said you have to re-watch it, or you felt like you had to re-watch it, so as not to miss the jokes, right?

1:30:50Yeah, yeah. Two or three times probably to get all of them. Yeah, and I just thought I want to re-watch it again, not only to get the jokes, but just because I want to laugh at all the jokes. I laughed at the first time because I will laugh at it the second time. There's a lovely moment in the interview when you and Pierre Calfin were talking about this. And, um, and Calfin said that he was a little worried that it was possible that this film was more of a time piece. That was a phrase he used, a time piece and the other minions movies. And that quote, children might not get that stuff. And certainly there are plenty of members of the young audience who will not get that stuff.

1:31:27They won't get, Oh, that's a joke about that. And that's a joke about that. Doesn't make, doesn't matter at all because the slapstick will see them through the gaps in the cine literacy. I mean, the reason it works is it's not funny because it's like, oh, that's clever. Oh, well done. You know, nod, nod, you know, nudge, nudge, wink, wink. That stuff is all in there because it's all in there, but that's not why it's funny. It's funny because it's incredibly funny because the slapstick is done incredibly well. It just happens to be playing out in a world which has been created by somebody who is clearly in love with the idea of movies and clearly in love with the idea of making a movie about making a movie.

1:32:09You also pointed out, and I thought this was very funny to Kofan, that there's an old science fiction movie called The Blob in which a blob lands on earth and at one point devours a diner and it eats everything in its way. It was very much a kind of, you know, reds under the beds scare movie that the blob has this red glowing thing. And it's like, oh, it's communist infiltration. In the center of this, the big, big bad thing is a huge gelatinous orange blob that just devours everything in its way. And you said to Pierre Calfin, well, I mean, that's, you know, that's a joke about, and he went, what and he said you know a great big and he he had to at least feign the pretense that it never

1:32:55Simon Mayo: occurred to him he feigned he feigned it very well and i imagine he's doing that in every interview it was you know if the if the timely thing that everyone is terrified of in the 1950s are the reds the timely thing that everyone is just horrified by in in the whatever we're in now is the oranges even if coffin said coffin said it never occurred to him but the key thing is at the center of it is there is this tenderness in the middle of all the madness there is this central relationship between these two misfit minions who are interested in telling stories and drawing funny pictures and they're more interested in that than what minions ought to be interested in which is finding big boss big boss you know can find the big boss to follow and there is something really genuinely charming about so i keep banging the table about that central friendship so look i mean i thought first it was a love letter to cinema and that always makes me happy because just to see movies made by people who love movies is great but particularly the cinema of a bygone age the lessons of which modern movies would do well to learn from i mean you can still look at silent cinema you can still look at early cinema and see storytelling techniques that are so advanced that nowadays when you're looking at something like supergirl you think you need to go back and and watch an old silent film and how the storytelling works and why it is that it so clear.

1:34:15I laughed like an idiot all the way through. I thought the slapstick jokes were just spectacular. I was really charmed by the Stanley Unwin-esque quality of Minionese. It's funny because you and I were talking about this before we started recording and we're saying that Stanley Unwin, I mean, do you think listeners know who Stanley Unwin is?

1:34:35Simon Mayo: No, this is where, so Mark and I, as you've heard, have done this kind of Minion-esque kind of uh trail just as a way of getting in the in the groove and exactly as Pierre Coffin said last week you know you change it electronically and you mess around with it to end up sounding like pinky and perky but I said that my script felt a bit like I was Stanley Unwin but I'm almost certain that most people will not understand because he was really before my I mean he was before my it was my it was my parents uh era really but I mean google him he's very funny and he speaks in a very strange, he has a particular way of reconstructing a sentence.

1:35:10But one of the things that he may be most famous for is that he's the narrator of Ogden's Not Gone Flake, which is a rock album that obviously you'll be familiar with. And he narrates the story of the moon and dangly. And it's like, he talks gibberish, but it's English, but with gibberish, you can understand what he's saying, but it's also kind of nonsense. And that was what he did. And it was an amazing thing. I think there is a lot of Stanley Unwin in Minionese. And I was, the other thing I think is really important to say is, watching this reminded me just how difficult it is to do these things.

1:35:50Firstly, when we did that little Minions thing earlier on, as you said, and it's very, very hard to get it even close to the genius of what's happening with the Minions, because making gibberish sensible is a very, very hard thing to do. And the other thing is slapstick is one of the hardest forms of movie comedy, physical comedy. Now, you're talking about animation, but animation is as physical as, you know, live action film comedy, because you have to, everything is to do with timing. and I was just looking at this thinking they just don't miss a beat they just do not miss a beat I mean the the from the gibberish language to the spot-on snare drum like rhythm of the slapstick comedy it was just hit after hit after hit and I loved every minute of it and I think you did too

1:36:39Simon Mayo: oh yes absolutely um it would well I think as you probably heard last week that um there are very few films even if it's a joy-filled 90-minute cinematic experience where you think i'll have another one then you know because no i've seen it it's fine um i'll come back to it in a couple of years but i did feel as though i had i had clearly uh taken less from it you know obviously the more you know about movies the more you're going to get it's still funny like you said you can take a 10 year old and they're still going to laugh but the more you know about the movies the more you'll find it intriguing.

1:37:14Simon Mayo: And I would like to see it again, knowing more about it. Just fab. I'd just like to see it again. I'd just like to see it again and again. I wonder what the movie of the week will be because that is it for this week. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team was Jen, Eric and Josh. The producer was Dom, the redactor Simon Poole. In take two, although he's disappeared to go and watch a movie. In take two, we're directing you to the Overflow car park for more chat about current film releases, plus a five-question film club. Three questions, Your Majesty. Thank you. questions in which case in which this week we're asked how many commemorative popcorn buckets we've acquired and if ai scraping is really all that bad really you can get it ad free along with the fullback catalog and the chance to vote on future episodes by signing up to our patreon just say come and obey a patron for the exclusive good just search come and obey a patron for the exclusive of good stuff mark what is your film of the week navana no it's not nirvana is it no minions and monsters i loved loved loved loved loved it back next week with director thomas kale who's just produced moana as a live action disney reimagining mark's review of that film and evil dead burn and i think i'll bestow a year's ultra membership to our correspondent of the week, who I think I will make Jocelyn, Mr.

1:38:37Simon Mayo: Jocelyn Evans, member of the Goths and slightly sceptical about Disclosure Day. And it was very entertaining. You get the ultra membership. Thank you very much indeed for listening. Please email any thoughts to correspondence at coedermayor.com.

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