Does RESIDENT EVIL equal WEAPONS? + JULIETTE BINOCHE

0:00Simon Mayo: Now, Mark, I don't know why all these trendy podcasters need to sell such tat in their online shops these days. You'd have thought the show would have been enough for them. I mean, look at this tea towel. Simon, I think that's our shop you're browsing, isn't it? Oh, so it is. Actually, those Kermode and Mayor director's chairs are very nice, and it's all incredibly slick and easy. That's probably what confused me. That's because it's powered by Shopify. Shopify is where you go to start your business. Everything you need to start selling is included and ready from day one, which means our top production team can concentrate on, well, whatever it is that they do.

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0:41Simon Mayo: And Shopify checkout helps more customers finish their purchase. Then when they come back, their details are already saved. One tap and they're done. Simple. With Shopify, nothing stands between your idea and a real business. So go make it one. Start your free trial at shopify.co.uk slash take. Start your free trial at shopify.co.uk slash take. When you put your body in the hands of a surgeon, you assume your doctor will do you no harm. I'm looking at the surgery board for tomorrow going, these people are f***ed. But when your doctor's in it just for the money, something absolutely insane happens.

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1:45Simon Mayo: Patients were committing suicide, losing their homes, losing their marriages. From Sony Music Entertainment and Western Sound, this is Dr. Billions. Available now on The Binge. Search for Dr. Billions wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribers to The Binge can listen to all episodes, all at once, ad-free.

2:19Simon Mayo: film questions answered as best we can in questions schmestions you can get all that extra stuff via apple podcasts or head to extratakes.com for non-fruit related devices there's never been a better time to become a vanguard easter free offer now available wherever you get your podcasts and if you're already a vanguard easter we salute you

2:52Simon Mayo: Well, let's get the very latest on how the rockin' tour of Ireland went, because before we go any further, I feel as though we need to know how the Gang of Three performed. Well, I'll tell you one thing. The tour should have been sponsored by VocalZone, because I spent the entire tour protecting my voice with VocalZone. I've now just slipped a VocalZone in, because it is that weird thing about when you get to my age doing three gigs in a row by the time you get to the third gig you can barely speak and when we did the third gig in kilkenny i just you know i was gargling with honey and lemon and jack daniels no no no jack you can't that what is the what's the alcoholic drink that you're that is meant to be good for your throat is it brandy Jack Daniels no whiskey whiskey absolutely isn't good for your throat because it alcohol dries your throat out anyway anyway the gigs were fab absolutely great really really good crowds loads of people who knew the words to all the songs also loads of people who do you know who didn't know the album at all so it was yeah it was it was it was really good fun but I tell you what if if we did three nights right so we did Galway Belfast and Kilkenny and at the end of it sack the tour manager exactly exactly at the end of it we felt like we've been on the road for about four years and so if that's what three nights feels like it's no wonder people go crazy when they go on tour for several months what was the best night um they were all very different i mean belfast obviously i'm in belfast a lot i'm back in belfast very soon because i'm doing cine magic and i'm introducing the devils and paul and janice our friends live there so i'm They're a lot.

4:38Well, Paul and Janice come to my chat thing. And tell the listeners what I sent you a video of.

4:47Simon Mayo: Well, you sent me a video of a crowd in Galway. I think it was Galway. Who was shouting something at the phone. I think they were saying hello to me, but then I couldn't hear what they said after that. No, they said, we love you, Simon Mayo. All right, but they had no idea who I was. They all know who you are. They all know who you are. And then I did the radio show with the gentleman who is going to be interviewing you for Simon Mayo, 40 Years of Broadcasting Fund. And he's great. John McTel. Ralph McClain. Ralph McClain. It was one of the, I can't remember which one it was. Yes, you did that show.

5:24Yeah, it was good. So anyway, so that's good. And he's really looking forward to it. So yes, people are going to, it's going to be packed. It's going to be sold out. It's going to be absolutely sold out. I don't think so.

5:33Simon Mayo: Anyway, it'll be very nice to see however many people do turn up. But are you going on the road again? Well, probably at some point. Shall I tell you that, weirdly enough, one of the highlights of the thing for me was after we'd done the Belfast gig, we went back to Paul's house, and it was like 12 o 'clock at night. So, yeah, rock and roll. And I stood in Paul's kitchen and had a cup of tea and a piece of toast, and that was absolutely lovely. That's how rock and roll we were. Tea and toast day. that's that's fantastic tea and toast it's like peanut butter and marmite it was absolutely fantastic peanut butter marmite is the greatest thing on toast it's my go-to kind of i've had a terrible terrible night i need i need a breakfast which is going to set me right but although this was in the middle of the night so i wasn't having a terrible night i was having a fabulous night because i was having my tea and oh and i tell you what i did something which i very rarely do as well i put a spoonful of sugar in the tea did it help the medicine go down it did in the mostly lightful way uh later on in this year podcast mark will uh stop gigging and having toast and be performing reviews of these films well it's a really packed show and a very very uh different set of films so we have the new resident evil film uh which i'm very excited about talking to about we have bad apples which is a very sort of strange dark school satire sean the sheep the beast of mossy bottom does exactly what it says on the tin and queen at sea a harrowing drama with our special guest uh juliette binoche who is kind of like french film royalty would you say i mean i think international film royalty yeah uh and a bonus review in take two mark 50 years of punk it is 2026 it is 50 years on since 1976 so 50 years of punk didn't punk sound kind of stop really in 1979 well according to this documentary it started and finished in 1976 okay so it's like a year of punk 50 years on yeah it's about six months of punk about 50 years on yeah exactly you can get take two ad free by heading to our patreon page you just search kerman and mayo Patreon and you'll find us there, all willing and able.

7:51Simon Mayo: If you want to send us an email, correspondence at COVIDmail.com. Julian says, Dear Brad and Donald, medium-term listener, second-time emailer, I've greatly enjoyed the recent correspondence about in-car coffee-making equipment. Yes. I know plagiarism is frowned upon, but life is short and the subject too important not to share this fascinating nugget synthesized entirely by chat GBT or chat GBH, as my beloved calls it, which it probably will be from now on. So I'm automatically suspicious, Julian, that this is a summary made by the blob that is going to kill us all very shortly. Modern British, so this is the chat GBH summary.

8:36Simon Mayo: Okay. Modern British tanks and many other armored vehicles are fitted with a boiling vessel, a BV, capital B, capital V, an electric water heater that allows crews to make hot drinks and heat rations without leaving the safety of the vehicle. The system was introduced after the Second World War when it became clear that crews brewing tea on improvised petrol burners outside their tanks were making themselves highly vulnerable targets. You would have thought they might have thought of that. From late war tanks, such as the Centurion onwards, internal boiling vessels became standard equipment. Today's systems, including those fitted to the Challenger 2, run from the vehicle's electrical supply and provide hot water for drinks, ration packs and even basic washing facilities.

9:23Simon Mayo: Manufacturers describe them as water and ration heaters rather than dedicated tea machines, but the military importance of a reliable brew should not be underestimated. The humble BV has become a vital morale-boosting piece of kit, enabling crews to eat, drink, and maintain a semblance of civilization while remaining under armour. How about that one? And his sign-off is Tickety Tank, which... Tickety Tank. Tickety Tank. Tickety Tank. Well, it's Tickety Tank. It's like Tickety Tonk, isn't it? It's Tickety Tank. It doesn't quite work. Anyway, would you welcome a boiling vessel in your, if you're on the road, for example, with your gang of three chums?

10:09Yes. Would an internal boiling vessel help, do you think? It would. And what would make it even better would be a toaster. So you've got your internal boiling vessel and then something to cook the toast on. Can I ask you a question? You said that thing about they discovered that having people outside the tank boiling something made them a target, right?

10:32Simon Mayo: Crews brewing tea on improvised petrol burners outside the tank. Exactly. Neither you nor I smoke. But you know sometimes you see that thing in movies that somebody is holding a cigarette. Often somebody is quite tough. They're holding a cigarette. They're not holding it sticking out from their fingers. They're holding it in their fingers with the lighted bit sort of facing in. Cupped in their hand. Cupped in their hand. And I said to somebody once, what's that about? They said, oh, it's an army thing. I said, is it? I said, yeah, it's an army thing because you do it because that way you can't see the glow.

11:09So it doesn't make you a target. Have you ever heard that before? No, I haven't heard that.

11:14Simon Mayo: I think I'd assumed it was to protect it from the wind. well i mean listen this may not be true and i'm not going to ask chat gbh because as you said there is a temperature chance that is trying to kill us but um but i was told that that it's a way of stopping the glow so that you know so that you can't be you can't be spotted by a sniper and i just thought it was an incredibly cool fact i mean it's it's it's just one of those things that stuck in my head i just wonder whether you knew it was true because you seem to know lots of things No, no, no, I don't I'm sure our very intelligent listenership will know But, you know, don't smoke, obviously Because it's stupid to take for you But also you would think there's no real reason for holding it Cupping it in your hand Other than your own personal security Yeah, exactly It reminds me of the line from the Scritti Politti first album He held it like a cigarette behind the squaddy's back He held it so he hid its length And so he hid its lack Okay, very good.

12:13Simon Mayo: Scruti Politi. Don't get a lot of references on this particular show. Correspondents at kodamay.com if there's a better line, or if you can explain if there is another reason. Maybe Mark is exactly right, and he's raised the issue and he's got the answer already. If it's going to keep you from a sniper, it seems like a very good reason to hide your cigarette habit. Speaking of which, Resident Evil. What can you tell us about this? Okay, so second reboot and eighth film in the Resident Evil film series based on the Resident Evil video game franchise. Now, I don't play video games, or I've watched Child 2 play video games.

12:53You have very little experience of video games?

12:56Simon Mayo: Yeah, very little. In fact, nothing since Goldeneye. Okay, fine. So you've never played Resident Evil? I've never played Resident Evil, no. But I have reviewed all the Resident Evil films on our show over the years, because they date back to 2002, Paul W.S. Anderson's Resident Evil. Then he was writer and producer for Resident Evil Apocalypse, Resident Evil Extinction, came back as director for Resident Evil Afterlife, Retribution, and Final Chapter. Those films all had Mirja Jovovich's Alice, who was a character who was created for the films. She was like this covert agent and she was, you know, like super heroic, but she was created for the films.

13:45And she was battling the Umbrella Corporation and their bioweapons, which have triggered a zombie apocalypse. Then that came to an end. Then in 2021, there was a reboot, Welcome to Raccoon City with Kaya Scodelario. Um, and that was directed by Johannes Roberts. And I thought it was kind of okay, but according to the Hollywood reporter, it was a commercial and critical flop. And the franchise took a further knock in 2022 when Netflix canceled the Resident Evil TV series after one season. So the movies have been a very mixed bag, but up until this one, they had grossed something like$1.2 billion.

14:23The Resident Evil series was at one point the highest grossing film series based on a video game and the highest grossing horror film series and the highest grossing zombie film series but that was a while back now resident evil being rebooted for a second time but guess who's at the helm this time zach crager director of barbarian and weapons oh okay well so suddenly Makes me interested. Precisely. Suddenly it's like, okay, so we mean business. So this new film is directed by Craig, it's written by Craig and Shea Hatton. It's an original story. It is apparently set in the Resident Evil universe during events which play out in the same timeframe as the Resident Evil 2 game, but updated.

15:12Okay, so Austin Abrams is Brian, who is a medical courier, who is, we meet him having just discovered that his girlfriend is pregnant and we meet him delivering or trying to deliver a package in an overstretched hospital. He's got this medical package, but nobody's taking it off him. He should go home to his girlfriend to discuss what they're going to do. Instead, he gets offered another delivery job. It's a double pay job because it involves taking something in a medical bag up into the snowy mountains, up to Raccoon City. As he decides, I'm going to do this because it's a double pay, it's a super thing, and I'll make money out of it.

15:48As he drives, the snow gets worse, visibility gets low, and then somebody rushes out in front of the car and he hits them. Here is a clip from the trailer.

15:59Simon Mayo: Hey, man, I got to be seven. Do you know where I can take this? Excuse me, I got... Oh, my God. Anybody order a kidney or a liver, whatever this is? Anybody? It seems like it's kind of important. Hey, you got time for another run? No, I'm wrapped up. It's outside the zone, so it pays double. I can do that.

16:20sweetheart i'm sorry this signal sucks here can you hear me i'm gonna stay with katie for a bit

16:23Simon Mayo: michelle please do not go stay with freaking katie my feelings that you don't even care enough to come home and have this conversation seriously i'm working this could be some eight-year-old boy's heart or someone's mom's brain

16:42so the person rushes out in front of the car gets hit very badly very very badly wounded but they don't die. On the contrary, they come back and they come back fighting, as does everyone else, because this place is the epicentre of a bioengineered outbreak that causes organisms to mutate and regenerate in increasingly outlandish zombified fashion. Turns out that the package that he's got is the antidote, and he must deliver it to a medical scientific centre, which is at the very, very top of a tall tower in the middle of the city, encountering en route all manner of mayhem. Now, Zach Craig himself said this is very different to his previous films.

17:24His previous movies have been like, they've got a lot of emotional and political complexity. I mean, you and I talked an awful lot about what weapons meant, about what was going on, what was the subtext of it. If you're looking for that kind of emotional, political complexity, you're not going to find it here. And nor are you going to find the kind of pulling the rug out from under you surprises of Barbarian. What you are going to get is an absolutely no holds barred rollercoaster romp that melds the sort of first person shooter action of a video game with the visual weirdness of a film like John Carpenter's The Thing and the humor of Craig's earlier comedy works.

18:06And honestly, it is pedal to the metal stuff. It's 95 minutes long. It's stripped down. It's got great central performance, top support, incidentally, from the likes of Carly Rice and Paul Walter Hauser. Paul Walter Hauser, who was a guest on this show a few years ago, and he was great. He was a really, really good guest, but he's got a good role to play here. Incidentally, word to the wise, in this film, just because you recognise someone and they're famous doesn't mean they're not toast. Craig has described this film as a love letter to the games because apparently he played the games and was a big fan.

18:39And he compared it tonally to Sam Raimi's Evil Dead 2, which I've talked about quite a lot of being like the epitome of slapstick splatter. I mean, you know, Raimi himself said of the Evil Dead movies, they are the three stooges with blood and guts standing in for custard pies. but kreger really know i mean he really knows how to do a pulse racing chase scene he really knows how to do leap out of your seat jump scares i mean on a technical level he's second to none it does help that the central character is a is a klutz and one of the central jokes is he has no knowledge of firearms and obviously the situation he's in requires a lot of knowledge of firearms and so he's constantly messing up and falling over and dropping things like a kind of comedy stooge character.

19:24And there's quite a funny thing in it, which is that you remember the opening of Four Weddings and a Funeral, in which it's Hugh Grant trying to get out of the house because he's realized that he's late for something. And he's basically just swearing. Posh swearing, exactly. Well, there is quite a lot of that. Well, it's not posh swearing. It's just sort of, you know, young American swearing. But it is funny because it goes on for quite a long time because he just keeps dropping things and not being able to put the stuff together. So he's the epitome of the underdog hero. The best thing, however, is the monster designs.

19:55I mean, they've got, obviously, nowadays, we're in a world of up-to-the-minute VFX. But watching this, I was really put in mind of the plastic scrunginess. We were talking about Screaming Mad George recently. The plastic scrunginess of Screaming Mad George's work on society or Rob Bottin's creations. I mentioned John Carpenter's The Thing, which that's very plastic reality. That's all done, you know, that's physical stuff. And there is a real fleshy quality to the monsters on screen here. There's also more than a touch of the Stuart Gordon reanimator movies. I mean, particularly when they get to the science lab and it does look like the kind of B movie set of one of those Stuart Gordon films.

20:37And it's got a generally gleeful attitude toward bodily mutation. And it was funny, as I was watching it, I was thinking, you know, on the basis of this, I can imagine Zach Kregor having a really good crack at remaking Frank Hen and Lotta's basket case and doing something interesting with it. I mean, it's got old-fashioned mutant monster appeal, which I really like, but it's a very, very up-to-the-minute post-video game era filmmaking. So it manages to be both a really good film and a really good video game adaptation. One funny thing about it was I read an interview with Craig Green, which he said that after the first preview screening, he took a lot of the jokes out because people were finding it too funny.

21:20Well, I have to say, I found it funny in the same way as I find Evil Dead funny or Evil Dead 2 funny. I thought it was just an absolute romp and it's 95 minutes long and it chews you up and spits you out the other end and it's got a proper bonzo finale and I really enjoyed it. It is like we're on a whole different level when it comes to Resident Evil adaptations. It's a romp and I think you'd enjoy it too what is a bonzo finale i don't want to i don't want to i mean it's like throw everything at the screen in the kitchen sink finale yeah kitchen sink finale but done well is it about anything no you said there these are always about something yeah i mean they are it is it is about something it is about the kind of you know the it is about being a roller coaster thrill ride that is what it's about and i think that's what craig meant when he said it's very different to his previous films which were very consciously about something i mean specifically weapons you know there is so much written about what weapons is about but this is about you know that video game you really

22:32Simon Mayo: enjoyed well get a load of this okay that sounds like a contender for for movie of the week which would be a very interesting thing uh box office top uh do we need do we need some ads uh yes let's Let's take some ads, unless, of course, you don't get ads, in which case we'll move on to the box office top ten. But for everyone else, here's some important messages.

22:57Simon Mayo: Hey, Mark Kermode. Fancy a fun quick-fire quiz? I thought you'd never ask. Great. How do you protect yourself from spoilers? We never watch the end of the film. Well, a bit impractical, but fine. How do you protect yourself from getting wound up by noisy cinema goers? There's no need. I'm a very tolerant man, as you know. How do you protect yourself from getting bored of the exorcist? It's impossible. Anyway, shall we start this fun quiz? What's more fun than being well protected? OK, is that part of the quiz? I'm doing the questions, thank you. How do you protect yourself from online scams? Ah, finally, a sensible question.

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24:09Simon Mayo: Well, that was fun. Now the box office top 10. Here we go. Oh, we're starting at number 10. It was slightly surprising. Number 10 is Coyote vs. Acme. Which I think would make a very good double bill partner with the new Resident Evil film, because it's the same, again, it's the sort of slapstick stuff, which I really enjoy. And I thought Coyote vs. Acme was really good fun. And we should point out, once again, this is the film the studio didn't want you to see. They wanted to write it off as a tax loss. And I'm really glad it's got into cinemas, because it's terrific. Number nine, Raiders of the Lost Ark, the 45th anniversary 4K reissue.

24:45Yeah, I mean, it's odd to think that Raiders of the Lost Ark is 45 years old. It just makes me feel very, very old. But, you know, it's a film which has stood the test of time, certainly more so than some of the other Indiana Jones films. Number eight is Runner. Which is kind of all right. You know, it's sort of mid-range actioner with Owen Wilson, Alan Richardson. This is the latest from Angel Studios, who we've talked about before. They were kind of the sort of faith-based studio, who are kind of trying more and more to move into the mainstream, and it doesn't get much more mainstream than this.

25:22Isn't there another movie out called The Runner? That's a different film.

25:26Simon Mayo: That could be confusing, though, couldn't it? I don't think that's out at the moment. There has been a film called The Runner, but this isn't that. So this is Runner. So if anyone is watching the new Jack Reacher series on Netflix, every single time, is it Netflix or is it Prime Video? I think it's Prime Video. Yes, it's Prime Video. Every time it breaks for one of those incredibly long ad breaks, they're advertising this movie that you're talking about. So it goes from Jack Reacher to another Jack Reacher and then another Jack Reacher all the way through. So it doesn't really change at all. He was interviewed recently.

26:01Simon Mayo: Who was? Your man, Alan Titchmarch. Thingy, him. Alan Titchmarch. No, not Alan Titchmarch. Alan Richson. Alan Richson, who plays Jack Reacher in the series. No, that's Alan Titchmarch. That's definitely Alan Titchmarch who does that. Okay. Imagine that, if Alan Titchmarch is actually playing Jack Reacher. Anyway, the other Alan did a big number on Trump. It was amazing. So I was thinking, oh, okay. What did he say? I couldn't possibly. but you know it was full-on it was a jack reacher-esque kind of rant uh so runners at number eight number seven is insidious out of the further and i still haven't i mean that's it i haven't i haven't i haven't seen this there is there's too much out and life is too short are you ever going to see out of the further because i'll come i'll see it when it comes i want to know what i know but i'll see it when it comes to streaming but i just i i sort of it's when i just sort of feel like I've seen it anyway but I know I haven't but you know it feels like I have anyway Fall 2 is at number six uh Colin Scott yes says just back from Fall 2 and was hugely disappointed almost everything that made the first film worth watching was absent the heights didn't feel as high the relationship between the protagonists was shallow and the twisty plot stuff towards the end was both unnecessary and blindingly obvious from early on sadly I don't have any hopes now for the third film that was set up such a shame after the first installment yeah i mean you're absolutely right the the plot twists are completely you go yes saw that coming absolutely um but i disagree with you about the about the heights thing i mean i this is certainly aided by the fact that i am terrified of heights by two great terrors heights and being buried alive that's it so the worst thing i could possibly happened to me is I could be buried alive at a great height.

27:58But I, but you know, one can dream, but I did spend an awful lot of fall too, just because I'm absolutely terrified of heights, feeling that thing, you know, the feeling in your stomach of, you know, and I did actually find myself saying out loud, it's only a movie. It's only a movie. It's only a movie. And it didn't work.

28:17Simon Mayo: UK number five, number two in America, Spider-Man brand new day. Just, just that, This and Odyssey, between them, have pretty much sort of put cinema attendances back on the map. So good for them. I liked Brand New Day and I liked Odyssey, which is at four. Again, we'll probably have more discussion about both of them in the overflow car park. But they have, between them, really, really put bums on seats. Last week's Movie of the Week, Pressure, is at number three. CJ says, blooming brilliant, really tense. You really felt the pressure. Brendan Fraser and Kerry Condon were great, but Andrew Scott, what a performance.

28:54Simon Mayo: And Chris L., or possibly one, says, very much enjoyed it, but yet again, the actual D-Day landings show only American soldiers on the beach and in the ships. Would it have hurt for a British film to show gold and sword beaches as well as the Canadians on Juno? Oh, okay, so it shows Canadians as well as Americans, but it doesn't show Brits. Anyway, Pressure's at number three. I liked Pressure a lot. it's funny because i was talking to the good lady professor her indoors just this morning and she had been driving to and from exeter and she listened to our review of pressure and said well i really want to see it now which i'm glad about because i i did like it but the the the line in it which is the funniest line is i know it's not a comedy it's a it's a drum but there is a very funny line in which um brennan fraser's eisenhower says you know i need to know what the weather's going to be like.

29:48And Andrew Scott's character, the meteorologist, says, well, I fear that you're asking me something which is a scientific impossibility. You know, long-range forecasting can only ever be guesswork. And he says, it's not long-range, it's Monday. And Andrew Scott says, you're in Northern Europe. Anything after tomorrow is long-range. Very good.

30:07Simon Mayo: Number two here, number 14 in America is Oasis, don't look back in anger. Carl Webster says, to paraphrase Noel Gallagher on the reaction of the comeback tour crowds, I never expected such an outpouring of joy and emotion. Don't Look Back in Anger is one of the most consistently moving illustrations of what French sociologist Émile Durkheim called collective evanescence that I've ever seen. Almost every crowd scene found me overwhelmed and sobbing like a Christian at the rapture. So I would just like to compliment Carl for I've never heard that as a phrase, sobbing like a Christian at the rapture.

30:42Simon Mayo: I'm not 100 % sure it works. But also I haven't heard of sociologist Emile Durkheim, but collective effervescence I do like as a phrase. It's great. I mean, the film won me over and I had gone in quite cynically because I'm not the biggest Oasis fan. And I do think as a piece of filmmaking, it's fairly, you know, it's fairly by numbers. But there is something, I mean, those songs are bangers. And there is something about just seeing the brothers put old grievances behind them and go on stage all around the world holding hands together. And certainly the film focuses on that collective effervescence of the crowd, people just in tears because Oasis are back on stage in front of them playing those songs.

31:33So I think the film works.

31:35Simon Mayo: And the number one film here and over there is Practical Magic 2. Kirstie says, I watched Practical Magic 2 before listening to your review. And while I agree with many of your criticisms, I absolutely loved it. For many, mainly women of a certain age, Practical Magic was not a forgotten film or book. And when you began your review by saying it was a forgotten movie with a sequel no one asked for, I suspected we were going to differ. The film was not for you, you lovely chaps, and that's fine. The film was for me. and that is a rarity after sitting through endless trailers where women don't really speak a semi-naked being the macguffin at best and not the main character this film featured women of my age albeit with fairly immobile faces problems that didn't revolve around drugs gangs punching and all things fairly sad there was also a fairly naked lee pace thank you very much yes we all laughed heartily at the train the bus and we are outraged we were outraged it was an apple pie and not a crumble, but me and my coven agreed that it was complete nonsense and we loved it as it was for us.

32:39I'm really glad. I said during the review that one of the things that I get accused of is liking things because they align politically. And I said, this is a perfect example of why that statement is a load of old hooey. Because all the things that you've just said, I agree with. It is a film by four and about women in a period when those things are spectacularly rare. And on that basis, I should have loved it and I didn't. And you're quite right to say, you said, you know, maybe it's just we'll differ because it's not because you're not the target audience. and I understand that completely I wish it had been a better film I wish that it had not you know that the writing had been better that the plot wasn't as mechanical as it was that the characterizations weren't as paper thin as they were but I absolutely firstly I'm delighted that you went and you had a really good time and that you went with a group of people who had an equally good time that's terrific i just wish it was a better film than it is but i absolutely hear and agree with what you're saying about how many of these do we have and the answer is sadly few because it it isn't a film in which a bunch of men run around punching each other and blowing things up and and that is something of a rarity correspondence at co-demand.com there's more

34:06Simon Mayo: of that in the Overflow car park. And in just a moment, it's our special guest. And if you don't get the ads, then that special moment is upon us already.

34:20Simon Mayo: Hello, Mark Kermode. Hello, Simon Mayo. Quick question. What's your autumn signature dish? Why are you asking? Because I suspect the answer is a takeaway. That is deeply unfair. But is it? Sometimes it's delivery. Well, perhaps it's your pans that are holding you back. Food sticking, pans burning, uneven heat. That's unusually generous of you. Gordon Ramsay uses hex clad at home and in his restaurants. You could try them. They combine the searing performance of stainless steel with the convenience of non-stick. So you get great cooking results without the usual clean-up headache. They're dishwasher safe and easy to clean.

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35:06Simon Mayo: Upgrade to Hexclad and make everyday cooking easier. For a limited time, listeners get 15 % off with our exclusive link at hexclad.co.uk slash take. That's H-E-X-C-L-A-D, hexclad.co.uk forward slash take. Offer excludes bundles and other items already on sale. Support the show and let them know we sent you. From the walls of Troy to the Tower of London, from Himeji in Japan to the Maginot Line in the Second World War, we've built fortifications for millennia. I'm Dan Jones, and in my latest book, Castles, I trace 3 ,000 years of human history looking at these captivating buildings. It's an epic story of defiance, endurance and imagination.

35:56Simon Mayo: castles the latest book from me dan jones available as an e-book audiobook and in hardback at all good bookshops so our guest today is juliette binoche one of france's most celebrated actors with a career spanning more than four decades and over 60 films rendezvous the unbearable likeness of being the english patient chocolat the return which as you know is a reimagining of homer's Odyssey, that's a thing, in which Binoche stars as Penelope alongside Ralph Fiennes as Odysseus and now she stars in Queen at Sea alongside Tom Courtney and Anna Calder Marshall, which follows a middle-aged woman struggling with her mother's dementia.

36:40Simon Mayo: You can hear my conversation with Juliet after this clip. What are you doing here? I'm not leaving her. You can't be here. Is it fine you're here with...

37:13They've reported this to social services. Someone's coming by tomorrow at 10. You can't be here when they're here.

37:22Simon Mayo: coming about to do what and that is a clip from queen at sea juliette binoche welcome to the show thank you how are you i'm good thank you how are you yes i'm doing very well very tired yeah i woke up at quarter to four and i watched some of your dance uh movie which we're going to get to uh in a bit which is the second juliette binoche film which is uh which is out but um Introduce us to Queen at Sea. Introduce us to this story. Oh, wow. I'm not sure I'm very good at that. But Lance Hammer, our director, went into, chose to talk about a difficult subject matter, which is about how do you take care of older people in our world?

38:07And also the topic being my mother in the story having an intercourse with my stepfather. And she has dementia. And is it possible without her consent to have sex? And so the law says you cannot have sex. But of course, when you're in a loving relationship, you've been married for 20 years, how can you stop suddenly wanting to be, you know, expressing your love through a sexual relationship? And so the subject is big and the questions, there are many of them because where's the truth of it all? it's very difficult to answer because it's a blurry kind of line when it comes down to intimacy, to love, to the law and dementia.

39:03Simon Mayo: So you play Amanda and Anna Calder Marshall is your mother. And so it's a very shocking opening. But then the other shocking thing is that you decide to report your stepfather to the police. Well, it's a reaction because he knows it's forbidden. it's been happening before and so when she suddenly sees that it's still happening she's so paralyzed, she doesn't know what to do and so she thinks okay, to stop that and to protect my mother what I should be doing is to call the police and that's what Amanda's doing and it's very violent but at the same time she doesn't know how to deal with it anymore and the interesting thing with this film is that you have at the same time it's very soft feelings between the characters and at the same time it's pretty violent too because you don't know how to deal with it what when your character Amanda reports this to the police what does she want to happen what does she expect to happen as a result she wants her stepfather to stop she doesn't know what she's going into.

40:15And that's the big surprise in the film is that it takes another kind of state that suddenly her parents' place or her mother's place with her stepfather becomes a crime place. So they're not allowed to go back to that place anymore because the police is taking over and the institutions are taking over. It's the process is very kind of a mechanic in a way. It's not human anymore, but that's the way the process is. And so that's why she's wondering whether she made the right decision or not. And she's lost, as the stepfather is lost as well, Tom Courtney's character.

40:58Simon Mayo: So Martin and Leslie, as we mentioned, Tom Courtney and Anna Calder Marshall, two incredible actors, two extraordinary performances, who apparently played Hamlet. he was Hamlet and she was Ophelia in 1968 that's incredible I don't think they'd acted since what was it were you familiar with Anna were you familiar with Tom I was familiar with Tom because I had seen 45 years and I didn't know about Annie but we talked about Wuthering Heights because she played Wuthering Heights and I did as well with Ray Fiennes many years ago So we had that in common. But as soon as Annie was on board, I felt like very close to her and to Tom as well.

41:46I mean, we really bond, had a real wonderful bond together. And we're all, I think, what united us is the need of expressing truth, of exposing truth, of exploring truth throughout the story.

42:02Simon Mayo: There was a phrase you used in another interview, turning suffering into knowledge, which I thought feels appropriate. Yeah. You said that you said yes to this straight away. Why was your reaction so strong to this? Well, because when I read the script, I felt it was, it really was talking about the subject that usually you don't see in films. Because it's put it on the side, because we don't want to talk about this, because it's about dementia. It's about older people. It's about, you know, close, you know, coming to death area. And so all those questions are put, you know, usually you're. And also I loved it because it was about the intimacy, but also about the different ways of loving.

42:48There's there's the love between the two characters of my mother and stepfather, of course, but also the love between my stepfather and me, the stepdaughter, that we're learning to love each other with our differences and our different points of view. And we're both trying to protect her and his character in different ways. As a husband, he wants to protect her and not sending her to institutions and sending her to this kind of, this sort of persecution in a way. And I want to protect my mother because I feel like she's in danger.

43:32Simon Mayo: When we've discussed dementia in movies over the years, it only occurred to me this morning that there's always been a French angle to the film. So Florian Zeller, when he was directing The Father, that was one. But also Mia Hansen-Lerwe came on the show talking about Un Bon Matin. One Fine Morning, which was a very personal film for her. I know you've worked with her before about getting her, the story inspired by getting her father a place in the nursing home. So that even though the bureaucracies are different, the police are different, the social services are different, the story of a middle-aged person trying to get their parent into the right nursing home, we don't know how to do it.

44:15Simon Mayo: None of us know how to do it. No, it's horrible. But that is an international story. Absolutely. And I think any story should be international. That's why whether Lance was making this film in America or in England or in France or anywhere else, it doesn't matter. It's how do we stay human in a place where you don't know how to behave? you don't know how to adapt yourself within a situation like this and you're discovering as you're going through it and I know myself you know and that's why probably it touched me because I myself in my life I was going through a father was descending into being ill losing track of time and space you know it was not exactly the Alzheimer illness but it was close to it and plus having you know cancer and I was having a son who was you know coming into love and sex life and all that and it was so there was the descending and the erase you know ascending kind of energies and and problems and and I was in cut in between I didn't know how to deal with it and the fact I had a script that was close to that and having a director like Lance being so open and needing to have somebody with him to believe that, you know, this film could happen was just a present for me.

45:43And I love the fact that Lance is not being pressured by time or money or things like that. He wants to be independent. And I love that because I think this kind of films and directors and producer as well is, you know, even though we had shot the film, he took his time to edit, he made a family, he got married, you know, he took the time of life and he had that freedom of doing it. And I thought it was just beautiful to see how it was put together at the end of the day.

46:23Simon Mayo: I do want to ask you about your directorial debut in Eye in Motion, which is also, before we get there, just on directing, am I right that you say on set that the first three takes, you would like to do them the way you want to do them? In other words, you're kind of directing yourself. Is that right? Well, a lot of times you're directing yourself because that's part of, you know, what an actor do. He has to be in touch with what's happening in him and yet being and going into the unknown. And we write through our emotions, our spirit, our bodies, our feelings, our guts, the spirit that's coming to you.

47:01You know, you have to be connected to places that are invisible somehow. You're recreating life. So, of course, you have to back and forth, back and forth. You know, it's in the inside. And how do you expose it? And that's a question of volume. And with the director, you know, he's in touch with you as well because he's really looking and he's feeling and he's, you know, listening and all that. But most of directors, great ones, they let you explore what's happening in you because you don't know. You're discovering as you're going, but you just got to throw yourself into it and risk something that you don't know.

47:38Because if you try to control, it's a machine can do that, but not the humankind's is that your cells have to be in touch with another kind of level. And so Lance was just, I said this to him so he can relax for three takes and not jump on you and think I've got to control this. I've got to make sure this, I've got to make sure that. But still he has his ideas because when he was writing, he had, you know, a sort of a vision or a feeling about what he wants. But of course, you know, you want to be inspired by your actors or by your DP, how he's lighting and everything, because there's an artist in each of us, in each, you know, inside that needs to come across with what you wrote, what the story is.

48:28And so I usually ask that with directors. It's like the first three ones, it's with me because I don't know what's coming. I don't know what it is, but it's been cooking in me during the time I was learning the lines and imagining and feeling and being in touch with where it's going. But it needs to birth. It's lovely, actually, I think, to work that way. I mean, of course, sometimes it's not as, you know, three and two and it's not like that. And when a director, you know, sometimes they jump on you because they know what they're feeling. I'm very much open to. So sometimes I bet they use your take, though.

49:14Simon Mayo: I bet they use one of the first three. Normally, as the directors. Yeah, you'll have the answer. And of course, you are the director for In I In Motion. It's your directorial debut. Just give us tell us what we need to know about it. I've seen it about half an hour of it. there's another 90 minutes to go I'm exhausted oh it's not supposed to exhaust you it's supposed to give you actually the need of creating because he can't act and you can't dance is that the starting point and then you get together and no it's not I wouldn't say that like you want to learn a new art form right so it there's a dancer in you even though you haven't danced before And there's an actor in you, even you never, you know, worked as an actor.

49:59I think there's a creator in us, in each of us. Now, you have to be daring to open up and feel a little ridiculous sometimes, and daring to learn and not know and be humbled by it. And then bit by bit, you learn something. But of course, when you have somebody helping you, like Susan Batson, who's an acting coach and who's in the film. Sumans Hughes was our rehearsal director and was helping me and was my trainer every day. And being in front of Akram Khan, who knows so much about, you know, movement, it's you're learning something new. And I think life is about transformation. It's about going into the new and being, you know, opening yourself into something new.

50:47You're not born in one single road. Then something you can enlarge, fields of possibilities. And I believe that you can dare something new.

51:01Simon Mayo: And did you direct Ralph Fiennes recently in a short film? That must have been fun. Yeah, well, actually, I started to shoot in a short film I wrote. But then the producer I had, they couldn't find the money. and then I'm thinking of finding the money myself and Rafe played in it graciously for friendship and he's wonderful in it and Anish Kapoor is supposed to be in it because I was editing for two years and putting the film together. I put it aside for a while and now I want to go back to it. So we'll see if Anish still wants to be part of it and if I can find the money. Final question, and we're well over time.

51:51Simon Mayo: Is it more difficult to get films made now? Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's more difficult. Yeah, because I think platforms has been really making cinema a hard life. but I think probably people are going to be bored in watching TV series because it's not shot the same way and I think cinema belongs to cinema because it's an art form and to have the concentration of film is a different experience than having a long, addictive kind of, you know, story that they're made in order for you to need to have another one. And it feels to me that, you know, the addiction is not always a good sign. Juliette Binoche, we have to leave you there.

52:55Simon Mayo: Thank you so much for your time. Thank you. Thank you very much. Juliette Binoche talking, amongst other things, about her new movie, Queen at Sea. Now, before Mark does the review and we talk about the film, we should say this does come up every now and again. It all depends on timetables and superstars availability. That interview was done tomorrow. So I haven't done the interview and Mark hasn't heard it. So all those great points that Juliet mentioned, we probably won't be mentioning because we don't know what she's just said. But anyway, so you're slightly ahead of us. So that to one side, Mark, what did you think of Queen at Sea?

53:36Well, thanks for clarifying that. I'm going to presume that in the interview that they've just heard, but we haven't done yet, that Juliette Binoche has done a lot of setting up. But since I don't know how much she did, just to recap, okay? So this is a harrowing drama written and directed by Lance Hammer. Juliette Binoche plays Amanda, who is a mum who lives and works in Newcastle where she has university tenure. She's in London with her teenage daughter, Sarah, visiting her mother and stepfather, Leslie and Martin, played by Anna Calder Marshall and Tom Courtney. And in an early scene, Amanda and Sarah walk into the apartment and walk into the bedroom where they find Martin on top of Leslie.

54:21And Leslie, who has advanced dementia, has a look on her face that seems horrified. And Amanda immediately berates Martin, telling him that we've talked, this has to stop. Apparently, they've seen a doctor who has told them that Leslie cannot consent, and what he is doing is assault. And she says, you have to promise that you won't do this again. And he says, you can't ask me that. She's my wife. This is what we do, and it's something that she wants. it is intimacy and she wants it and amanda is so outraged this all happens in the opening act of the film yeah that she calls the police and she calls the police to report an assault and they arrive turn the bedroom into a crime scene and the next thing is that martin is arrested and led off and as he's led off he says i'm being arrested for having sex with my wife and the rest of the drama is essentially, and just jump in at any point and correct me if you think I'm mischaracterizing it, it is a kind of descent into domestic hell that raises really distressing questions about age, about dementia, about consent, about the nature of sex and the nature of assault, of love, of coercion, of dependency, and of abandonment.

55:48I mean, the first thing to say quite clearly from those subjects, I mean, it is not a bunch of laughs. It made me think, obviously, and this will be a comparison which many will make, of Michael Haneke's Amour. And that was a film about a loving couple, one of whom succumbs to dementia, leaving the other taking sole care of them. And in that film, there's a character, a daughter played by Isabel Huppert, who wants her mother to be put in a home. And the husband's saying, no, she's not going in a home. She is staying here with me. You only want to put her in a home because it's better for you, effectively.

56:28And there are echoes of that plot in what's happening in Queen at Sea. Incidentally, on the subject of, and you may have discussed this with Juliette Binoche about what Queen at Sea means, but the director said it's like the image of the matriarch being in a vulnerable position, being at sea, but also he had an image of a monarch in a battleship. So there's two different things going on. There is vulnerability on the one hand, but there is also some form of sort of, you know, independence. The difference, the difference between this film and Amor, the Michael Haneke film for me is that tonally, I mean, look, I, as many people do have firsthand experience of dealing with a, with a loved one who has had Alzheimer's and many people listening to this will be in, will, will be in exactly the same situation.

57:25There were times watching this that I thought this makes Amour look like Airplane in terms of just how unrelentingly grim it is. And that is both a praise and a criticism. So let me be absolutely clear. The reason the film is so distressing is that it is completely believable. The performances are convincing to the point that I had to, you know, I said when I was watching Fall 2, I said to myself, keep telling us, it's only a movie. It's only a movie. There were times watching Queen at Sea when I had to say to myself, they're just acting. They're just acting. This isn't actually happening. They're just acting.

58:06And that is an absolute, you know, that's what an actor is meant to. I believed in the performances so much that even though I know Tom Courtney and I know Juliette Binoche, I believe that they were the people that they were playing. The performances, I mean, particularly by Courtney and Calder Marshall, are impeccable and fearless. And in Berlin, it won the Silver Bear for Best Supporting performances for those two, for Courtney and Calder Marshall, and deservedly so. Because I think their performances are amazing. And I really did find myself, I'm not just saying this, I really did find myself.

58:43saying to myself, they're just acting. They're just acting. It's not actually happening. They're just acting. You've got to be pretty brave to play some of those scenes and they equip themselves admirably. The film also dares to go where many similar dramas don't. I mean, the subject of elder sexuality is so taboo that outside of something like Anne Reid's brilliant performance in The Mother, which was way, way back, it's really hard to think of many dramas that take that subject on and don't do so in a way which is to be laughed at or to be the subject of comedy or something that they take it seriously.

59:22So 100 % applaud it to the filmmakers for making me believe in this world. The problem, and I'd like to know how you feel about this, is that it is so relentlessly grim, it's hard to recommend it to anyone, particularly anyone, and there are so many people for whom this is the case, whose lives have been touched by Alzheimer's. Now, I can imagine that you could see it and go, oh yeah, okay, this is speaking to me because I really think that these issues need to be addressed, and I can see that it's truthful. and it's also the way in which it deals with questions of consent and intimacy and assault and all those things really complicated things it does so in a way which is really sincere and and brave and important there is an issue that there is a parallel story which is happening with the daughter which i found less convincing because there's three generations of women in this story and the parallel story of what's happening to the young girl who's in London and hanging out with and making new friends, I can see why it's there because it's kind of reminding you that these people were all young once and these people had a different life once.

1:00:42I just, had that part of the drama struck a more convincing note, I think it might have been something of a counterbalance. I mean, as it is, I found it, I found it really, really painful to watch. And as I said, that is both a, it is both a criticism and perhaps the ultimate praise is that I just found bits of it unbearable. I should also say that I think the ending is a misstep because without giving away the ending, sorry, Simon. Yeah, sorry, sorry. But that was unintentional. But if you've seen the film, you know, because I just thought it was like, okay enough enough enough tell me what you thought um on sunday i went to see de gaulle resistance

1:01:34Simon Mayo: and i enjoyed it enormously and i went with a friend who both of whose parents died um with dementia with alzheimer's um i'm blurring that just because i can't remember which specifically but anyway sure and he said there is no way i'm going to be watching that and it then made me think well who is going to be seeing that and in as much i agree with everything that you said it is immaculately acted the uh juliet binaig is great tom courtney and anna calder marshall are extraordinary in doing what they do, but it was just so relentlessly grim and, and getting worse. And then at the end, just an ending, which I thought was completely unnecessary and just magnified the awfulness of everything.

1:02:29Simon Mayo: I wondered who, who I could recommend it to really. So I, I have, I can, I can admire it and I do admire it. Yes. And the performances are great and they have tackled a very difficult area. But I had to pause it halfway through to go and have a cup of tea and have a metaphorical biscuit, whatever it was, just to break the mood. And then it got worse. So it may well be that if you are in a position similar to Juliette Binoche, and I think the daughter was there. in as much as it's important that juliette bernard's character is is that sandwich generation is that the right term so she's looking after a teenage kid and she's looking after a parent with dementia yes with all of that so she's she's coping with all of that but that it doesn't really lighten the load and i found it pretty unbearable and i i do think because i i i want to be clear about this.

1:03:33I think the, I think the end is a mistake. I think that I don't think anything up until the end is a mistake. I think everything else is valid. And, and I, even as I'm saying this, I mean, this is what films ought to be doing. They ought to address this, this kind of really difficult material. And it's great that it's a film that takes this subject seriously. I think the end is a melodramatic mistake. So who, so who are we recommending this for? well i would say if you're a film lover from a filmmaking point of view it is it's a very important film i think if from a from the point of view of the performances on screen these are these are like i mean tom courtney is astonishing uh called marshall is terrific you know i mean it's weird you're you've got a film in which juliette binoche is almost the least impressive of the main three people.

1:04:30And I think she's one of the greatest actors ever to have been captured on film. But it is a really, really tough watch. And I think that it ends up slapping you in the face in a way that did not feel necessary.

1:04:48Simon Mayo: We should have Tom Courtney on the show again, and then he can just give away the entire plot. Talk about the end. That's it. They can just do that. All the way through, which is what he did last time. What was that film that he did it for? Well, He did it for, was it 45 years? He was an old person having sex in that film as well. Anyway, yeah. So that was a very memorable interview, wasn't it, when Tom came in and was laughing and chuckling all the way through and telling us everything about the film. Everything about the end of the film. That's all he talked about was the end of the film. Yeah.

1:05:20Simon Mayo: Anyway, Juliette Binoche, thank you for coming in. Queen at Sea is out. Do you know what we need now, Mark? Well, we laughed at it. Just before we go to it, I just want to say I'm so jealous of you for having met Juliette Binoche because I think she is just an astonishing actor. And I, you know, I really envy the fact that you read it. Anyway, a little bit of light relief. With the laughter lift. Oh, thank heavens. It's the first time I've ever felt glad about that lift arriving. Yeah, that's right. So we've just described life, and now here we have just something that's an antidote. Mark, did I ever tell you about the extraordinary precognitive abilities of dear old Grandma Mayo?

1:06:04Simon Mayo: She was something of a seer, you know. She once warned people the Titanic would sink, but nobody listened. She kept warning them and warning them in a louder and louder voice until they kicked her out of the cinema. okay i'm funny everything funny now okay and i'm not sure if you knew this mark and it seems unlikely as i don't really like cats and i'm always extremely busy but i've been working been working at a cat shelter recently no you haven't but as of last week i'm going to have to find another volunteer's position why i hear you ask why they've reduced me hours okay and we're back yeah even after even after we say that isn't funny as a bonus though then mark let's try with this okay what do you call a beetle belonging to the curculia hang on it's been spelt phonetically which is Which is making it worse, right?

1:07:05Simon Mayo: Not helping at all. What do you call a beetle belonging to the Kerculeodonia superfamily who lives at your house? I'll try this again. What do you call a beetle belonging to the superfamily Kerculeodonia who lives at your house? And the answer is a resident weevil. Very good. Okay. Glad we got there. There must have been another superfamily that was easier to pronounce than Kerculeodonia. anyway Resident Weevil is a good name for a band though that's true anyway they kicked her out of the cinema they kicked her what's still to come oh still to come where is it okay Mark's review of Bad Apples and Shaun the Sheep the Beast of Messy Bottom Mossy Bottom sorry not Messy Bottom no we've dealt with that we've done that and if you've enjoyed what you've heard so far there is plenty more waiting for you in take two such as Five Question Film Club and Questions Three Questions Your Majesty in which this week we asked who exactly chooses the movies for film studies, media studies, etc as worthy of the curriculum you just search Kermit and May Patreon and join us over there where you can get both takes ad free plus take ultra and now ads or not as the case may be

1:08:32Simon Mayo: Okay, well, Correspondence, thank you very much indeed for all of that, because we build the show around it. In fact, we build our careers around it. Correspondence at covenmail.com. What else is out? I've seen some posters for this new Saoirse Ronan movie, so tell us more. So, Saoirse Ronan movie, it's an odd little film, based on a 2020 debut novel by Swedish author Rasmus Lindgren. The novel was De Unskad, The Unwanted. This is directed by Jonathan Etzler, also Swedish, written by Jesso Cain and Jonathan Etzler filmed in Bristol and Bath. It is a deadpan black comedy with a touch of horror and a lot of tongue in cheek.

1:09:11So Saoirse Ronan is Maria, a somewhat mousy and retiring primary school teacher. And she's always dreamed of being a teacher, you know, of inspiring young minds. But her class is completely disrupted by one kid, Danny, a great performance incidentally by Eddie Waller, who is an agent of chaos. So the opening scene finds the class visiting a local cider-making plant, and we see a shoe in the apples. And then we follow the shoe all the way through the cider-making place until it finally gets into the machine that it then destroys. Of course, the shoe was thrown in by Danny. Maria knows Danny is out of control.

1:09:50No one listens to her. The headmistress says class control is your business. Danny's father is a harassed delivery driver who's never around to help, never answers the phone, often doesn't pick his son up. So Danny just goes on destroying things. He breaks a fellow people's arm. He smashes up cars and he finally gets into a physical fight with Maria. She fights back. And in fighting back, she falls on top of him and appears to asphyxiate him and then panics. and he tells her that he is going to tell everyone that she assaulted him. Here is a clip. It was an accident, okay? I'm sorry. You've strangled me, miss.

1:10:29You've got on top of me. You've suffocated me. You could have killed me. I'm going to tell the police. I'm going to tell everyone that you attacked me.

1:10:43Simon Mayo: I'm going to tell everyone.

1:10:49What are you doing? Come and I'll take it over.

1:10:55Simon Mayo: Get off me. Just let the things go.

1:11:03Simon Mayo: I just want to check it, OK? You were tax-free, Miss. You're mental. Get off. There's an oft-said inspection the next day and she has to get Danny out of the picture. He can't have him in the classroom. And so she takes matters into her own hands And suddenly the world is a better place. Danny is gone. Class order is restored. Maria's authority is reinvigorated and no one cares about Danny except, of course, the police. so the film is you know it's described as a black comedy and you know as the saying goes black comedy swedish black comedy no laughing matter so the central premise remind me do you remember stephen graham came on the show to talk about that film good boy remember that yes yes i do indeed okay so in that film stephen graham's character who is a psychopath imprisons this foul-mouthed tearaway and teaches him to become a civilized member of society whilst keeping him chained up in a basement.

1:12:09There is a similar sort of dynamic going on here about treating an angry, out-of-control kid as if they are a wild animal, and then somehow discovering or believing that you're discovering that the animal is responding positively to being treated like a wild animal. And, you know, of course, we know from the beginning that maybe Danny's issue is he's just never been loved. And now perhaps finding affection in the worst possible manner. So obviously the whole central idea about the disappearance of a child and the police not knowing what's happened to this missing child is extremely dark. It is also, I have to say, in the context of this film, somewhat credibility testing because the film, it's a satire.

1:12:58But in order for a satire to work, you do have to believe in the premise. You do have to believe that the central thing is credible. And the problem for me with this is that it isn't satirical enough. There is a sense of playing safe with the characters, particularly with the central character. I mean, Saoirse Ronan is a matchless actor. We've had Juliette Binoche on the program already, and now we have Saoirse Ronan. I mean, these are towering talents, right? But the way in which her character is played, it doesn't push things far enough to get me over the credibility gap. And as a result of it, it struggles to establish just how seriously we are meant to take the thing that she has done in order to solve the problem in front of her.

1:13:52And I did find myself too often thinking, yeah, no, that wouldn't happen. I actually don't believe that that would happen. I don't believe that it would be possible for that to happen. And I don't believe that everything else around it, therefore, would happen. What you need to be thinking is, this is a sharp, outrageous social satire with a real issue at the center of it, rather than thinking it wouldn't happen. Now, weirdly enough, late in the day, there is a PTA meeting, which actually, for my mind, resembles a scene from Hot Fuzz, when they all do the greater good. And actually, I think at that point, the film gets the strength of its convictions and gets that tonal thing right.

1:14:34But it finds its feet. But it finds its feat for me too late in the day it needed to do it a lot earlier um however there are i mean social owner is terrific as i said the the guy plays danny is very good there's also near brown who plays pauline who is this kind of wannabe teacher's pet who is almost more scary than danny in a desire to be you know to be the teacher's pet there's also a great performance by sean gilder who is so brilliant in selfish giant he played kitten in selfish giant the characters There's nothing kidney about that character at all. And I think his performance is really good.

1:15:13I mean, I think if the film had leaned more into, for example, if the film had leaned more into being about the teacher's pet character, Pauline, who is sort of on the cusp of how seriously do you take this? This is played much more broadly, but in a very sharp way. I think that satire might have hit home. as it is i think the problem is that it's never really willing to commit to the darker than dark central premise until we get to the end at which point it's sort of tipping over into excruciating comedy which i think works quite well there was too much of it that i was just thinking i don't know i don't believe the situation i think there are very good things in it i think the performances are good but i just think it needed to commit and go a bit harder because because as it is, it couldn't quite decide how to deal with the outrageousness of the central premise.

1:16:09I'm sort of intrigued and would watch anything with Saoirse Ronan. Of course. Of course. Absolutely. Because she's brilliant. She is absolutely brilliant.

1:16:18Simon Mayo: Okay. All right. That's bad apples. So thank you very much indeed for the What's On videos that are coming in. You can still do audio and you can do video because, you know, we can cope with all of this. Here's Jen Skinner from the Sea Change Film Festival. Hi Simon and Marks, Jen Skinner here, director of Sea Change Film Festival on the beautiful island of Tyree. We're looking forward to welcoming filmmakers from around the world here next week to celebrate women in film. We're opening with The Education of Jane Cumming on Friday night with the director here. We've got 100 Years of Prince Ahmed Celebration with musicians we close with genie finley's new film we've got um the director of bell we've got catalonian filmmaker judith callel we've got how deep is your love's director and we finish with the disco we've got daily swims underwater drawing sessions and a singing to the seals workshop so something for everybody wow that is something for everyone that's that's really good incidentally the new genie finley film which we'll be reviewing it's currently in previews um it comes out in a a week or so we'll be reviewing is is terrific it's absolutely terrific thanks to jen for sending that video in please send your videos to the usual address and that video from the most westerly island in the inner hebrides of scotland and known as the hawaii of the north for its exceptional sunshine and world-class windsurfing that i did not know well i'm now very tempted uh to go and visit.

1:17:50Simon Mayo: Correspondence to kerrymayer.com Will you be doing some world-class windsurfing? No, but you know, the Hawaii of the North sounds sufficiently beguiling, doesn't it? sounds great. Because presumably there's some surfing culture. I can be a part of that, even if I don't intend to go and do any surfing. So we have a Shaun the Sheep movie to discuss before we're done. Very good news. Shaun the Sheep, the Beast of Mossy Bottom. You, you certificate for very mild threat scary scenes rude humor and implied bad language so this is can i just ask does it yeah if it's a you certificate does it need to give any justification what i mean is it's a you everyone can go and see it yes uh well it's it's just it's you and then the the bbfc advice is that it includes that the film includes very mild threat scary scenes rude humor and implied bad language just so that somebody might say well you might say that's a you but i'm not taking my child to see something with implied bad language, not having it.

1:18:47This is the third Sean film from Aardman, a brilliant Aardman, following Sean the Sheep movie and Sean the Sheep movie Farmageddon, which I just loved. So Sean, I mean, everyone knows this, Sean first achieved fame via the TV series of Sean the Sheep, which was itself a spinoff of the Wallace and Gromit, you know, close shave stuff so um it is a stop motion animated comedy horror which is of course the genre of aardman's greatest production curse of the were rabbit which was recently back in cinemas as part of the ongoing aardman uh celebrations and if you've been listening to the show regularly you'll you know we're revisiting all the kind of aardman features so this is directed by steve cox and matthew walker written by mark burton and joss pillbrow and the plot centers around Sean attempting to fix a pumpkin patch, which has been destroyed.

1:19:43And Sean, being a sort of Frankenstein-like mad scientist, who dreams up, concocts this regenerative potion, which due to a regenerative potion hair restorer mix-up leaves the farmer turning into sort of something sprouting Sasquatch-like hair and soon finding himself the center of a pitchfork wielding Halloween hunt and the voice cast includes Justin Fletcher uh John Sparks Danny Dyer not that one, the daughter, Danny Dyer, Paul Whitehouse. But the key thing, as everyone who knows Sean the Sheep will know, is that Sean the Sheep is a mostly nonverbal thing. Sean is silent, except for the mad scientist laugh.

1:20:33The farmer most spectacularly talks in grunts and laughs. And I think, honestly, the farmer's performance is brilliant. So because of that, here is a trailer that has a voiceover on it. Here we go. This year, wake up

1:20:50Simon Mayo: to a legend so frightful it will leave you shell-shocked. Because for Sean and the flock, things are about to get hairy.

1:21:17Simon Mayo: From the creators of Wallace and Gromit and Chicken Run comes Sean's latest adventure to catch the most furtastic beast around. That's what I mean about the... Yeah, I'd go and see it on the basis of that trailer. That sounds good to me. The thing is that like the creators of the Minions, Aardman really understands the physical choreography of Slapstick. I mean, the gags are perfectly timed. The facial expressions are brilliantly abstract. I mean, there's the whole thing with the farmer with his glasses and without his glasses and what's actually happening with his eyes. The fact that the sheep, you know, speaking out the side of their mouth, the tone being like, alternatively, it's humor and adventure.

1:22:00And then a lot of pathos, a lot of pathos. And as always with Ardman, the attention to detail is paramount. I mean, the movie, it riffs on old horror films like the Universal Frankenstein and the Hammer movies and myths of Bigfoot and yetis. But it does so in a way that it never feels, it's never winking at you. It's never doing that, you know, look at us, aren't we clever? It's doing it because just this sort of exuberant style of the film. What was the phrase? Was it collective effervescence? Yes. Yes, it was. Okay. Well, I can imagine that watching this in a cinema will be an experience of collective effervescence because it looks amazing.

1:22:43I mean, you can feel the world of it. It's got a romping score by Natalie Holtz, which really adds to the charm. And it's just joy. It's just joy. It's just like, yeah, do this. Just keep doing that forever because it is just a pure unalloyed use certificate joy. with my favourite implied bad language. Not bad language, implied bad language.

1:23:11Simon Mayo: Take your family and enjoy some collective effervescence. Collective effervescence. I guess the thing is you need an excuse. I wonder if some people think they need an excuse. I'm just thinking because I do. Unless I was going to take a young child to the cinema, if you had a night out, you'd be going to see Spider-Man or The Odyssey or Resident Evil or something like that. You need an excuse to go and see Shaun the Sheep movies, don't you? And you have it, right? Because you have young grandchildren. Yeah, but they are abroad. And so therefore... But they'll be showing Shaun the Sheep abroad.

1:23:48I mean, you've got a perfect excuse.

1:23:52Simon Mayo: I mean, four is still quite early, but if I get the opportunity... Anyway, it sounds like it's the kind of thing that you should go and see anyway. I agree. if you've gone to see a film like queen at sea you then need to follow it up with shawn of the sheep the beast of mossy bottom anyway that's it for this week this has been a sony music entertainment production this week's team dom eric josh and heather and scary chris the redactor was simon paul in take two we're directing you to the overflow car park more chat about current film releases and don't forget people of bristol and beyond we'll be at the beacon on december the 6th for our christmas special tickets are on sale via the link in the show notes, Mark, what is your movie of the week?

1:24:32Well, because I like to include everyone, I'm going to do a double bill movie of the week. One for the young, one for the youngies, one for the oldies. The one for the youngies is Shaun the Sheep, The Beast of Mossy Bottom. And the one for the oldies is Resident Evil.

1:24:48Simon Mayo: We'll be back next week and take two has landed adjacent to this one. Thank you for listening.