The Truth About Building Saie Into A $100M Brand: Laney Crowell | Ladies Who Launch

0:00Rochelle: Laney Crowell launched a day just months before the world shut down. Since then, the brand has grown past 100 million in annual sales at more than 50 % year-on-year growth whilst remaining profitable. Today, we're talking about the decisions that it took to get there. So, let's find out why she's a lady who launched.

0:29Rochelle: A light bulb moment launches your business, but consistent habits power it every day after. Today's episode is powered by Starling. Whether you're side hustling or scaling, Starling believes that with the right mindset and tools, anybody can be good with money. It's not about complex number wrangling or losing days to admin. It's creating a smart system of financial habits that can give you active control and build your confidence so that you can focus on being a founder, not the finance team. Search Starling Business to find out more about their monthly fee-free business account. I'm so pleased you're here.

1:03Rochelle: I'm so glad to be here. I'm genuinely so, so excited to talk to you. And I mean, we will go back into the original launch in 2020 and how the business has grown and how you've grown as a founder in that time. But first of all, I want to say welcome to the UK. Thank you. Because we're fresh into your official launch. Yeah, we just launched. Tell me all about it. Why the UK and why now? Oh, my gosh. I mean, I feel like it's so overdue. You know, we have had people asking us to come in a real way for six years now. So to me, I'm like, I've been like itchy. I've been like at the starting gate, like ready to go.

1:44So the fact that we're officially in store feels like a dream.

1:47Rochelle: It's incredible. And what I suppose you're right when you launch in 2020 and there'll always be a strategy and there'll always be a plan in the way that you grow it. And of course, that roadmap might change. A pandemic. a casual pandemic it will just nice little curveball to chuck at you there um but i suppose you really sort of you get a signal from your customer and i think it's such an important thing particularly when we think of you know on this podcast we have a lot of startups that you know founders that are starting something up that listen to this it's really tapping into those customer signals right and london has become i suppose one of your biggest cities when we're talking about audiences on social media.

2:32So did now feel like because you've got that big audience,

2:36Rochelle: the launch here has to be right. Oh, for sure. There was a lot of pressure on this launch. We've been working really hard on it. Every single touch point from the out of home in the tube to the taxis to the influencer mailers to all of the press to coming on your podcast, like everything was considered. And how like I always I'm so curious when it comes to sort of taking on a new country obviously there's new demand the way people shop is completely different is that like a real if we're talking like a time period of like learning and we always say learning her like who that customer is yeah it must take a real effort to understand I suppose now how we consume beauty here and how we shop like you say like tubes are a thing here how how much time do you spend on that as a business I think the other thing to think about is when you become a big brand, it's not just her.

3:32There are many hers. So there's lots of different women that we're considering. You know, we did this beautiful dinner last night with an older consumer that's really elevated and has lots of spending power. And then we're doing a consumer event on Friday where it's going to be all about merch and what the free things you're getting and standing in line to get a moment with the brand. And we're a generational brand. Multiple times I have helped a grandma a mom and a daughter all shops say at the same time so if there isn't just one her that we're thinking about it's how do we connect with all of our audience and you know we do it over a matter of days and times and we'll continue to do that the entire time we're here and I guess

4:16Rochelle: I suppose you're right it's being inclusive right and making sure that every woman feels seen yes in what you're doing and spoken to and included and that's that's I suppose that is a that's a that's work that never stops that's continuous isn't it I mean I got to see our first customers on Tuesday we were there at the opening on Carnaby Street and you know you couldn't help but kind of analyze who are those people that are rushing in to get their first their hands on say before anybody else got there and I think a lot about her I also think a lot about the customer former community member that hasn't tried, say, before, but has heard of us.

4:56They know that we're launching or maybe they've never heard about us. So it's really how do we address all of them in a considered way.

5:05Rochelle: Take us back now to 2020 because I'm always curious to, I mean, when I say take us back, let's lose the lockdown and the masks and all that terrible time because that wasn't so cute for any of us but I'm always sort of curious to know about that first seed of an idea that a founder has planted because we all know in that entrepreneurial game when that seed is planted and that fire is lit there's no way that you're putting that out so there's no turning back no there's no turning back and you're like okay here we are we're in now off we go so tell us about the first idea because again that came from I suppose your community right so I want to go a little bit farther back than that and it was the moment that I realized my foundation was making me break out I bought a foundation stick I think it was at Nordstrom's and it was an investment for me and I was excited about it it gave me this beautiful coverage my skin looked great and then all of a sudden I started having really horrible breakouts and it took me a few a while because I just kept covering them up more and more until I realized that that was actually what was causing the breakouts and for me that was really where it all started when I was like oh my god my makeup is making my skin worse and that's almost a cycle isn't it as a woman if you're like you're putting makeup on to feel good you've then got a breakout so you're going to try and cover it up.

6:33Rochelle: Conceal that breakout with more makeup. And then it... And that's what happened to me. It became this like really awful downward spiral until finally I woke up and said, I'm doing this to myself. My makeup is doing this to my skin. And so that was really where it all started, where I started thinking about, well, but what if not only did our makeup not make us break out, but what if our makeup was improving our skin? So when you look at our formulas, they're a base of skincare. It's why they feel so incredible on your skin. And it's why they blend seamlessly. And why you don't get any cakiness is because we're actually hydrating your skin while you're wearing everything.

7:09So that was the aha moment. My community coming along for the ride was, I think, the most beautiful part. It's where the name comes from. You say it, we create it. Because my community said, here's exactly what's missing. And they really honed it for me. And during that time, I was interviewing all these founders. and I it hadn't occurred to me that I could be a founder until I started interviewing other

7:34Rochelle: founders so interesting so interesting subconsciously like you say surrounding yourself with people in now the same space as you but actually I suppose being a sponge I found that a lot on this podcast actually interviewing great women I had a recent launch and definitely like subconsciously sort of other people's stories has really impacted what I've then chosen to do or not decided to do which is which is interesting isn't it I always call them my expanders yeah when you see someone else do it all of a sudden you're like oh I can do that too yeah yeah giving yourself that belief before before you're at that point I want to talk about your time at you spent about five years right Estee Lauder tell me about that time in your life well that was amazing because I'd never been in house with an editorial before that so I'd worked in magazines and then I got the call to go to Estee Lauder and really start their whole digital department so I launched all their social media channels.

8:26I created their online content. I started at the time, they were called bloggers, but I started their influencer marketing department. And I actually ended up creating an editorial platform that was really fun. I got to feature and profile all these amazing women. And it was such a joy. It was almost like I had a little startup within this big company. And I got to learn from the best of the best and see how a global company operates. and then so say like you every time I say the word say now I feel like I've got like a really

9:02Rochelle: good pun I'm actually just talking to you but like I need to have a really good sound bite that goes alongside it before so after that you have that time you absorb I suppose like a you know a wealth of knowledge like you say being I mean unbelievable wealth of knowledge I mean incredibly so and then you've really established the community they are literally telling you what's missing and sharing the same problems as you I assume the breakout and that being you know breaking out of makeup and that being the forefront of all of this when you're like okay I've sort of spent time with founders I'm ready to step into that world and sort of this new chapter in this new phase of my life who and what was your first phone call when you were like okay I'm gonna do this?

9:52I made a list of everybody that I knew who had worked at a startup, who had raised money, even if it was like adjacent, like I'd heard someone talking about it at a party because I wasn't part of that world. So I really had to fight to get into it. And I made a list. It was in Google Sheets. And it was just my friend Jeremy and his friend Rishi. And I just would email and say can I take you to coffee for five minutes can you tell me how this works how would you raise money if you could start if you were starting to do it right now um you know those little things then were like okay I should raise on a safe versus a convertible note here's about how much I should raise here's what my pitch deck should look like um and so I just started kind of one step after the next getting to where I needed to go when it comes to founding a business you really

10:43Rochelle: have to find your tribe yes and not everyone gets it and I've had you know women say to me you know I'm really trying I'm there's this thing and I'm really going after it but my family don't necessarily understand it my friends are like oh you're the career girl you know it's it's really about found finding those people that get the path that you want to walk on that journey that you want to go on were people really generous with their time when it came to sort of helping you out and their knowledge to share that with you I think so I think I think so I think that I try to pay that back now when people also have questions.

11:17I think that when you are a founder, though, I think your experience is so unique. And so your tribe ends up changing and evolving because it's hard to be a founder. It's a tough journey. It's super fun. It's amazing. But it's also you're on a roller coaster ride and there are really high highs and there's really low lows. and when you meet people that have been on that journey as well like you just automatically have that connection and can have empathy for each other so I've found that my tribe has evolved

11:49Rochelle: yeah last seven years like you say different seasons of that and people really understanding where you are now versus where you are then so and just last night my friend Jessica who I met as part of this group that is kind of my ultimate tribe of CEOs and founders when I told her I was coming and launching in the UK she said I'm gonna host a dinner for you and I think that is the most beautiful example of having a tribe absolutely that and having women behind you and she was getting up at four o 'clock this morning to go on a trip and she still was there present excited to be there I just I was so touched and when you find those people it's like hold on hold on because they're as we say they're your tribe and it's important we need those people that we can lean on that understand it that we it's a mutual feeling right we would do that for each other um so let's let's go back to the launch 2020 okay this you know how many how many products did you launch with at that at that moment in time now obviously we see say today and it is so i i raised a million dollars which was a lot it was really hard to raise that much but it's not a ton when you think about a product launch because you have at least 20 to 30 thousand dollars of inventory per skew that you have to invest in you have your team you have office space I didn't really have office space I had like a co-working space but you know like it adds up really it sounds like a lot of money on paper but it's it's not and so I couldn't launch with a ton of products I also knew that the story of say was so specific into how we formulate because we're not just a makeup brand.

13:31We're really trying to create a new, the future of makeup. So we formulate completely differently and we had to tell that story. So I launched with what at the time I was like, this is all you need to walk out the door, our brow butter, a lip balm and mascara. And we've really continued to operate that way in terms of, well, first of all, ask our community what they want and then what's missing from our routine and each launch is a hero launch that we can tell first of all it takes us forever to formulate so we really want to be able to tell

14:06Rochelle: the story of each formula and I always love to sort of pick apart this in the way that will really benefit like the lady listening to this when you look at sort of that when we when we're talking a million pounds and we're we're looking at it as as a sum like that you're launching three three skews yeah three skews so obviously a certain amount of that money is tied up in product and so on and so forth what would your advice be to a young founder that has got a certain budget you know and it's not you know it might be 10 000 pounds it might be however that looks how would you divide that sum of money if we're talking i don't know marketing or we're talking like where do you think that money is best spent and did you spend it the right way or do you wish that you did it differently looking back?

14:55I would say there was probably like a hundred thousand ish of dollars of mistakes that I wouldn't have made if I hadn't had the money. Right. So I do think that there are benefits into not fundraising, especially at the beginning so that you can test and learn. And also that's going to be your most valuable equity. So if you, you know, if you haven't launched your brand yet, your pre-launch, maybe you're a celebrity. Okay. You're going to get a better valuation. But if you're like me, I'm not a makeup artist, I'm not a celebrity, your valuation is not going to be that high. So you're going to give quite a lot of equity away for not a lot of money.

15:33So let's say maybe you have a little bit of money that you can raise from friends and family or borrow or have a loan. And then you can do influencer mailing. You can create your products and you can launch your website. Those three things would be what I would focus on and try to raise as little or no money if possible yeah that's so interesting

15:57Rochelle: and it's such a valid point because I think we focus don't we and on like you know when I hear founders talk it's like I need to raise I need to do this but actually sometimes it's but what if you don't exactly that what if you don't and how and then what's important because different things become important right at that point so the day you launch the day that you know that we see these I kept saying last week when we launched that you kind of wait for these aha moments than you press go don't you and you wait you think the whole world is stopping waiting for you and you're gonna hear this like song in the background and confetti's gonna blow off what was what was that like was it very instant that people understood it was it a slower launch than you anticipated how how did that look back then so my background was an influencer and I have always been such a huge proponent in the power of influencer marketing so that was really where I leaned in I knew that that was how we were going to get the buzz out there yes we also organic communications is something that we are been big believers in so I think that buzz around the brand was really pretty significant right out of the gate.

17:10We had, gosh, I want to, I wish I could remember, I think it was 200 mailers went out. We rented a van. We put our logo on the side. Someone texted me and said, you have your own van? And I was like, no, of course I don't have my own van. It's a decal. We're peeling it off. It's a decal. And we went and we hand dropped all of the ones that we could in New York City. And I think it did actually look quite significant. I don't know if you could do the same now I mean I look at the mailers that brands launch with now and I was like oh that wasn't our mailer ours was a really cute little box it wasn't one of these big huge you

17:46Rochelle: open it and someone jumps out yeah no it wasn't that all singing all dancing and then so you do the mailers and you you know you launch your the band's going around and there's obviously that November 2019 yeah you never forget the birthday do you um So like you say, you're coming from that influencer space. You really, you know, you've placed big value on that and what that means. Was the response instantly, did it take you by surprise or in a good or bad way? I think I've always, I mean, first of all, for say, I always want to say to be a big brand. I have always had really high expectations for us.

18:29So I was pleasantly surprised, but no, it was exactly what I was hoping for. That's so good.

18:34Rochelle: because I think sometimes I mean I spoke to lots of people on this podcast and there's there's a it's a real game of two halves like some people like I just wanted to launch a couple of products I didn't think we'd grow to where we are now and I've actually had to sort of figure out the plan you know I didn't have a five-year plan 10-year plan or people like yourselves that are like no I wanted this out of the gate to be to be huge right and I think sometimes like I said it's a game of two halves that that can happen and then you're like oh this is not what I expected but when it goes to plan according to of course there are always going to be bumps in the road along the way like yes not planning you launch in November 2019 four months later COVID hit exactly I definitely couldn't plan for that I I believe in the philosophy though of like if you want to go somewhere like set your sights on it and yes there will be twists and turns but you'll get there eventually and having come from Estee Lauder like that was what I knew and that was um the the world I wanted to play in so how much did what then went you know sort of what followed affect your plan and how much did you have to pivot after launching in 2019 and then what we all know happened in 2020 how much did that change your plan how much did it change my plan.

19:54I mean, it's almost hard to put that into words because we had one event. It was in LA. It was really sweet. It was when we launched Glowy Super Gel, which is now the number one highlighter at Sephora. And then the world shut down. I moved out of New York City, moved to where I live now, which is about three hours outside of the city in a really sweet little beach town. Thought we were going to be there for two weeks, ended up being there for two years. I built the entire business from my bedroom. I didn't get to see our products launching in Sephora in person. I didn't get to meet customers in person.

20:30I remember our products being stuck on ships in the harbor because nobody was offloading the cargo ships. So it's almost hard to answer that question because I think it affected us infinitely. I think, again, everything, there's a yin and a yang. So I think the positives to it were one, we luckily had not gotten into Sephora. We had been rejected, not invested in inventory. We had not invested in any physical spaces. So thank God. That would have been really detrimental if I had spent all of our money on inventory. We hadn't. So we had time to play and pivot. And we really focused on storytelling online.

21:18We focused on building our community. TikTok was a channel that we were an early adopter to, which has been really influential in our success because this was early days when you could go viral easily. It wasn't pay for play yet. We were able to really spread the word and storytell. And it was great. People started educating themselves on ingredients. People started wearing less makeup. the no makeup makeup trend became really popular because people were at home so for us I do think there was a big element of right place right time we talk a lot on this show about the unfiltered

21:54Rochelle: reality of founder life the late nights wrong turns obviously the shiny wins too but we talk less about the unsexier day-to-day stuff that actually keeps the wheels turning in other words the endless financial admin that can end up disrupting the craft and the creativity that led you to actually launch in the first place. So today's episode is powered by Starling, who believe that the right mindset and tools can change all that. They've built a powerful business account that can help you build confidence, boosting habits, create vital headspace and shed the dead weight so you can focus on your next move, all with no monthly fees.

22:32Rochelle: We love that. There are some features founders are really loving, like spaces where you can separate all your different expenses from your main account. There's also bills manager, which keeps bills like tax or office rent in a protected space and pays them automatically on the same day. So that's one thing ticked off of the to-do list. Starling accounting is a bit of a game changer too. It handles bookkeeping and making tax digital all from your bank. Just search Starling Business to find out more. Yeah and like you say there's so many sort of negatives that come with that like you say the things being stuck on ships etc etc but weirdly there's like this divine timing that actually the world was ready for a brand like yours and you're not having to sort of educate as much into a category that is like just wants glam makeup it's we were ready for our skin to like skin we're ready to feel nice too weren't we and get the masks off and yeah and be excited about skincare again it's interesting what you say about tiktok too because it really was the time where it probably felt way more organic than it does now.

23:39Rochelle: Like now that it comes with a whole sort of different. Oh my gosh. We were doing like TikTok dances. Yeah. That's what I mean. And we were all, when you actually look back, we're we thought that was cool. It's so interesting now that comes with a whole strategy and you hope the right person on TikTok spreads the word far and wide, but it, it had that organic element to it then didn't it when you think about having an original plan it's hard to answer because it it changes that whole story but this real idea of how full circle the moment is that actually Sephora weren't quite ready for the brand at that time so you didn't do everything you needed to do to make it happen and now full circle you're here launching Sephora in the UK obviously Sephora has become a huge part of our journey yeah we kudos to them hats off they reached out april 2020 and said we want to launch you in every door so that's really not long after it wasn't long after we had made such a big splash through our marketing that so far was like okay actually let's let's talk again yes and so we signed the contract april 2020 i remember the moment my daughter was was crying she wanted my attention and i was like one second i'm getting the best news of my life hold on kids will bring you back down to earth very quickly and I signed the contract and we were supposed to launch that fall stores were still closed so we ended up launching in February 2021 in all doors on just one shelf because we often have this conversation about you know the idea of obviously the goal is to be in retail and to be retailed in you know a store like Sephora is on I suppose most people's bucket lists right and that'll be the the top of what we're manifesting for did do you think it was worth the wait for you because the idea of wanting it all and being ready for it from the sort of back-end perspective and because we you know how once that happens it's super demanding and what it takes yes you know I've had founders on talking about probably not being ready with having the right people educate and yeah taking those opportunities because founders are always going to be in those situations where you kind of you're in a meeting and you're like amazing I can't wait we are so excited and then you either leave that meeting or hang up the zoom and be like now we've got now we have to figure it out how we do this was there a little bit of that for you or do you think that there's kind of not launching there and taking the time really helped you understand what was about to happen that's always my favorite moment when it's like wait how are we going to make this happen that's where that's where I get excited have this sort of toast at lunch and you cheers and you're like amazing can't wait and then you're like now we go that's my favorite is that where you thrive as a founder I love it I think that's so exciting to not know like how you're going to get there and have to figure out solutions I always tell my kids we can always find a solution no matter what was there a lot for you to figure out at that point yeah still tomorrow we're still there we're still there and how do you and how did you handle that how big was the team at that point too uh five people wow so it's it's a lot and how many stores are we talking like how what does the every door I think is about 1200 in North America but we were on the clean end cap so we didn't launch with a one bay when you look at a lot of our competitors they were out of the gate they had a one bay with five different shelves and it was custom and it told their whole story and it had all their branding on it.

27:16It was beautiful. We didn't have that. We had one shelf with maybe Wafdash Shane. He was, we were talking about the other day, I think he said like six products on it. It was really super curated. Then we got a second shelf. Then we moved up to the top. Then we got a one bay. Then we rolled those one bays out to all doors. Then we got a two bay in some doors. We just finished rolling out the two bays and all doors so we've been very slow and deliberate in our distribution um same thing with the UK you know this was we could have launched here years ago um but we wanted to wait till everything was perfect we wanted to have everything set up and be um perfectly prepared

27:55Rochelle: because those kind of moments where it is super spiky you know and you launch and then it's like you say you could launch with everywhere and then it's one or two bays and it's full on there is definitely and and do you feel this way that sort of argument for sometimes really slow and steady wins the race and really understanding where you are and nurturing it as you go rather than going in sort of full throttle and it takes a lot of discipline to do that to go slow and steady my someone once told me the slower you go the faster you get there that is so interesting best advice I've ever gotten and do you think there's something in the world now where we consume so much online and every day someone's having a launch every someone's having a sellout and there's this weird sort of I suppose comparison being the thief of joy that you think oh gosh they're totally it's very noisy isn't it there's a lot of distraction how do you handle that I think it's really powerful to not spend so much time on social media I think that can be really distracting from first of all having good ideas that are going to help your brand it can totally steal your joy and make you sad and that's not doing any good um and it keeps you from having those original ideas because you're looking at something else and then you're feeling jealous and you're like I'm going to do that I deleted Instagram off my phone at the beginning of the summer and it was the best decision I've ever made so good and are you back on it yet or is this I'm on it right now because we're on the we're here in London and obviously I want to be engaging with everything but when I go home on Monday like I'll have it off my phone for a week that's so nice so and I think so good to have that switch off I'm in the age where I've got a 13 year old and I'm very much a no social media mom which isn't making me the most popular person ever I'm a no social media I'm actually a no phone mom yeah so I'm even they they know they're getting phones at 18 yeah it's it's really it's such a kind of I I gave her a phone in I mean it's essentially an iPad there's there's nothing on it and I gave her a phone when she started secondary school because she was sort of you know doing a bit of traveling by herself as in like getting to school and it's crazy now how I just want to that's my goal is just to protect them from that yeah we're we're on it and of course that's part of our job and we we want to be across it but I just want to protect them from that for as long as humanly possible and like I say it's not we could we could have a whole episode about this actually I started the no phone and social media group in my town for kids amazing amazing and what I'm delighted about I mean this is a whole other topic but we now we have um they've passed the law here that yes children aren't allowed to run to 16 which is so incredible so amazing it's kind of by the time my younger two get to her age I won't have such a fight on my hands I mean she's getting it because they're the boundaries right and she knows that she's not allowed but it's doesn't make me very popular that was all that's all I say um I want to talk about some breakthrough products and your kind of heroes and your best seller you touched earlier on the Glowy Super Gel become one of your major hero products and repeatedly goes viral and I always find that really interesting when a product repeatedly goes viral because it's a viral for a reason but I think for you as a founder when someone new discovers that product and it gives it a whole new like sort of rebirth again it's pretty special it is special it's a special formula when i launched it nobody knew what to do with it nobody knew so far was like i don't even know what category to put this in and i think when you when that happens you know something's really special yes we also invest so much in our formulas our formulas are very expensive they're a lot for us to um our cogs are very high um Because we spend so much money on the ingredients that go into our formulas, the way that we formulate.

31:53So it is undupable in that way. There's something to be said when you're like, I know no one else is going to spend the amount of money that I spend on this formula. And that's why people come back to it over and over again. The fact that it's so lightweight. There's actually no pigment in the product. so all of that when you you know sun glow and you want that really back from vacation glow those are just that's just the mica in the formula so that's why it doesn't transfer that's why you don't get it on your clothes um it's it's really special and believe obviously believing in that for me like you say doing the work that you know that it would be impossible for someone to do this because i know how long this took what it took did it's one of those ones did you instantly

32:38Rochelle: know that was going to connect or was was there education to do because sometimes when you are I discussed this the other day um incredible woman Nicola that founded um Neon the sort of wellness candle brand that is hugely successful here she was way she was almost too early to the market at the time that she was having to educate the buyers on how and where it was placed yeah we've had formulas that have been too early to the market where now we're like oh if we launched that now like even people use the same name that we used and we're like okay we were just a little bit too early um but i think that everything must say is a little bit of that because we formulate with the base of skincare and then we add a little bit of pigment on top so the look is very no makeup makeup it's sheer when right now people are wanting that like to be on camera and be like oh oh my god before and after yeah you know you don't get that so much with our formulas our formulas I always say I make makeup for the 80 % of women that get ready in five minutes who want just to look great and feel great and have great skin like a better well-slept version of ourselves that's that's that's the goal isn't it that's what we're all looking for um you've had some incredible moments one of them I want to talk about which I saw online and was like this is actually genius is the New York Knicks.

33:59Rochelle: We need to talk about this just for a second. Let's talk about it. Because it's just, what I love and I find, but this is like the brand obsessive geek in me. When I see these moments happen, I'm like, yes, of course, you know. And when it's these, we see like brand on brand collabs happen now, right? That are like brands that from sort of completely different ways, different spaces, but of course can co-exist so beautifully together. This moment was kind of one of them for me, like really just incredible talk me through this idea and how it come about because it's yeah it's just great I love just the idea of a female founded makeup brand being present at New York Knicks just everything well we're actually the first beauty brand to ever sponsor the Knicks I do think so marketing is probably where I shine as a leader and I think that I always knew it's a I always know it's a good idea when no one's ever done it before and there can be a reason why no one's ever done it before, but you can look and see if there's a, you know, whispers of a good idea.

35:00And for me, that was when I was sitting and at a game, I was with my family. I'd never been to Madison Square Garden before. If you're not familiar with Madison Square Garden, it's an arena in the middle of New York City. So it has incredible energy. It's kind of compact. And I was sitting there and to my surprise, there was all these like fabulous women there. Like people looked amazing. And they were dressed up. They were with their kids. They were on dates. They were having girl nights. There were celebrities sitting front row. It was true entertainment at a really high elevated level. And when you're at a sporting event, which is part of the magic behind them, is that you are captivated.

35:39You are fully engaged with exactly what's happening. You are locked in whether or not it's the kiss cam or it's the, you know, can you make a basket for$50 ,000? dollars. And all of those things are sponsored. So I'm looking at the advertisers and none of them are talking to women, not a single one. And so it was a little, you know, lightning bolt moment. And we started exploring it and there was, you know, the price tag was like, okay, I don't know that we can do this. But then we started talking to them about out of home placements and how we could really engage in what kind of impressions we were going to get.

36:21And we're like, well, actually, the numbers do make sense. I talked to my husband. I said, OK, how far do you think they're going to get in the season? Because I didn't know the Knicks that well. I was like, well, I'm not going to make this investment if they're not going to get to the playoffs. And he's like, no, they're definitely going to get to the playoffs. Did I know that they were going to win the championship for the first time in 53 years? I didn't. But it allowed us to become the face of female fans and that was invaluable it was meant to be it was absolutely incredible

36:47Rochelle: I just want to say by like it's just incredible and I always I always want to sort of give women their flowers this is the whole point the show exists by 2024 say it crossed the 100 million dollar in sales with more than 50 percent year-on-year growth while remaining profitable yes love it I just I just feel that it's just so important that we acknowledge this sometimes we shy away from talking about money and I'm really against that it's absolutely incredible what you've done and raising early had you could you know as you've seen those numbers at the start of this when you're raising to try and get this across the line I mean that must make you just feel incredible and so proud of what you and the team have achieved right I I bought myself a watch when we hit the hundred million dollar mark because I was like I never want to forget this moment and I can tend to do that I can definitely have a goal and by the time I've got there I'm already looking on to the next and I don't pause to celebrate and so that was when I celebrated yeah take and you have I mean that's a win to celebrate girl absolutely that now it's time for three two one some financial questions powered by our friends at Starling Bank the bank on a mission to give founders confidence and control over their finances so these are these questions are your advice for founders.

38:05Rochelle: Okay. And I'll start with the first one. Three things that you think every founder should be willing to invest in as their business starts moving from small brand to serious scale. Number one, operations. I think especially founders tend to be more like visionary. And so you want someone else to be helping you with the operations and these details that are so important. There's an incredible diagram that my sister, she works at Nike. And so she is always sending me these like great business things. And it's a diagram around if you have great operations, you're then going to have more sales. You're going to have great operations, higher profits, then more money to put into marketing.

38:48And it becomes a flywheel where if you have great margins, you then have more money to spend on marketing acquisition, and then you're going to have more sales and then it's going to become this self-fulfilling prophecy so invest in operations yes absolutely i know i'm just to say three but that's my biggest that's my biggest number one

39:08Rochelle: it's almost three because of the way the diagrams split right like it's incredible incredible um two things that worked when say was small that you had to completely rethink once the business started scaling oh i mean i miss those days where we used to like be on zoom and it was just five of us and we'd be supposed to be talking about work but we'd be talking about celebrity gossip. It was the best. So definitely having to rethink work chart and make sure that there's structure to it, that everyone has clear roles and responsibilities because in the beginning, everyone's a generalist and everybody does a little bit of everything.

39:41And as you grow, you have to become a specialist and you have to have people that are experts and have done it before. And so that has probably been the hardest shift for me as a founder because I love being connected to my team I think it's about the journey not the destination and so um having people you love going to work with everything single day is important and so you want to love them and spend time with them and as you grow you can't do that as much yeah I know it's hard is

40:08Rochelle: that it's being productive with every moment isn't it um and then one power move I suppose your advice for negotiating a higher investment price know your worth I feel like that is the hardest thing for women is that like I remember fundraising and feeling like oh my gosh please please invest in me as opposed to you know you're so lucky I'm gonna work my butt off to make you rich while you don't have to do anything like that's the mentality shift that I think women need to really be leading into like people are lucky to get to invest in your product we need to just make that a clip but if anyone is going out and raising in the next week just listen to that before you go in that's what you need that's the motivation and lastly one decision that you hope your future self will be grateful that you're making now?

40:57I think structuring my days so that I get as much time with my kids as possible.

41:01Rochelle: Yeah, I think so. I think the days you realize that the, what do they say? The days are long, but the time is really short. And I think it's, we're all so busy doing everything that we don't get those years back. I read an Instagram post that made me cry the other day. It said, this is one of your, I think it was one of your 13 summers with your children please enjoy it and i've got a 13 year old and i was like yeah um we just have to work hard to go to nice places so they never leave us my husband says that he goes we have to have a great house if they want to come back all the time great holidays so they always want to come thank you so much i've honestly loved talking to you and what you feel is absolutely incredible i'm so pleased as a fan that you're here i'm so pleased that you're here in the uk and i know that London is too and yeah continued success for you and say it's amazing to see a woman absolutely smashing it so thank you.

41:58Well thank you for having me I'm so happy we get to call each other friends now. Yes I love it. And I just appreciate being here so thank you. No thank you. Dinner next

42:06Rochelle: time. Yes next time. Don't forget to follow us on Apple on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts to make sure that you don't miss out because next time I'm going to be talking to another incredible lady who launched. If like me, you're a watcher, then please follow us on YouTube and don't forget to like and subscribe.