LegalTechTalk Uncovered 2025 - Johnny & Sarah Shearman - E06

0:00Sarah Shearman:Welcome to the Legally Speaking Podcast Legal Tech Talk Uncovered Mini Series 2025 sponsored by Clio. We're back with our red mic for a behind the scenes series all about legal innovation at Europe's largest legal tech event. So we're granted access to meet some of the greatest speakers, sponsors, brands in the whole legal tech world. We've got 300 speakers with over 70 sessions with over 4 ,000 attendees from all across the globe, hitting us here over the next two days at Legal Tech Talk live in London. From AI to access to justice to smart compliance, you name it, we're covering it all. This isn't just another conversation or another conference.

0:41Sarah Shearman:It's a blueprint for community and transformation. So buckle up. We're speaking with some incredible people about policy change, change makers, legal innovation and so much more. Over and out. Welcome to the Legally Speaking podcast, recording live here at Legal Tech Talk. I am joined by name, title and organisation. Johnny Shearman, Practice Group Council at Greenberg Troy.

1:06Johnny Shearman:And Sarah Shearman, Knowledge Council at Mayo Brown International.

1:10Sarah Shearman:Absolutely. And it's a pleasure to have you both on the show doing this here live in London. Johnny, coming to you first, what's one problem you're actually trying to solve in legal? Well, look, if I can mention something very topical at the moment, because we've just won some awards for it. But we have just launched a new set of arbitration rules, which is called the Blockchain Expedited Arbitration Rules. And this is specifically designed to resolve conflicts for Web3 disputes and looking at bug bounties. So super topical, really quite niche in terms of the organizations that are doing this with working with white hat hackers and large Web3 projects and really looking at the future in terms of how we can resolve these issues.

1:55Sarah Shearman:Yeah, and I love that. And our listeners know we've done a lot of content around Web3, the metaverse and where the future is going, the blockchain. So, yeah, very exciting. OK, Sarah, coming to you, you've obviously come to the Europe's largest legal tech conference. what do you think is one assumption people have about legal tech that perhaps they still get wrong

2:12Johnny Shearman:interesting um i think a lot of people assume that legal tech is not for them particularly if you're a lawyer it's for the guys in innovation and it whereas actually particularly now with ai and just how prolific it all is really it is for everybody every win era of massive disruption and everybody needs to be on top of what's happening um and how to be using that technology and i think AI in particular, it's such a broad tool. It can be used in so many different ways. And I think individuals really need to get to understand it for themselves and what works for them. It's not like a tool just for one work stream.

2:45Johnny Shearman:I think it's for several.

2:47Sarah Shearman:I guess as an extension to that, sticking with you, Sarah, how do you think you get increased adoption of legal tech? Because at the moment, there's loads of it, but we need to actually get the adoption levels to a right... So what would you say from looking inside in?

2:58Johnny Shearman:It's a great question. And it's one that as Knowledge Council we're always trying to help the innovation teams with and I think that I think the thing is is really kind of you have to be relentless and you have to get people trying it out for themselves and you have to find whatever way works so for me and my team at the moment we've been working with a working group to kind of basically sort of brainstorm ideas and come up with success stories and then share those with everyone in every different kind of kind of format and get people thinking give them ideas and tell them that it's really you know it's not scary everybody's experimenting and kind of bring them on the journey with you.

3:31Johnny Shearman:I think that's it.

3:32Sarah Shearman:And those success stories are so true because I sit on the board of a couple of legal techs and the first question most of the firms say is, well, who's using it at the moment or what's it achieved? So I think as soon as you can get that proof, I think it helps with adoption. Okay, Jonny, coming to you, what sessions have you enjoyed? Are you taking part in any sessions yourself whilst here at Legal Tech Talk? Just talk us through it. Jonny Lutton I've enjoyed a lot, to be honest with you, and I missed it last year and my LinkedIn was kind of going through the roof in terms of saying how good legal tech talk was.

4:01Sarah Shearman:And so I thought we better be here this year to kind of check it out. So I'm not speaking on anything, but we've attended a lot. The session earlier with the CEO from Microsoft was really interesting. I mean, clearly, you know, you want them to be on top of everything in terms of, you know, how integrated they are in terms of our law firm operations, but they absolutely are. There's been loads on AI, understandably. Just sat in on the session with Garfield AI in terms of the new law firm, which is obviously leveraging AI heavily. So just lots of interesting topics to kind of be delving into. I think the more interesting question will be, what are we talking about next year?

4:41Sarah Shearman:To be honest with you, I think that would be the really, really, really interesting thing to think about. And it's so true because last year we were here and a year on we've already seen like innovation and progress and next year it's just going to be another level okay Sarah you're busy um you know there's only 70 hours in the day and a lot of people say to me Rob I just don't have time to come to conferences they're all the same do you really get nothing from it so someone who is busy who is here what would you say to somebody to encourage them to get out there more

5:04Johnny Shearman:and come to things like this yeah I mean I think it depends on your role as to what you stand to get out of it but I think you know if you're if you're a kind of vanilla lawyer really it's it's such a great atmosphere to be just talking to people and networking in a really relaxed environment it's very different from your typical kind of client facing event where everyone gets a bit nervous especially as lawyers because we always want to be right whereas and also especially kind of these technology conferences the atmosphere is so different and actually so kind of almost the opposite of what lawyers tend to be which is stuck in the fact this is especially right now with this kind of you know AI era of disruption it's so creative no one has the answers yet and it's so apparent that actually all of us the lawyers and the technology lawyers all together we're figuring this out which kind of find the way together and i think that's a really important and inspiring thing to be a part of now and i think in the future when you know five years from now and the technology's advanced so much you're going to be so much more confident in using it having been here from the beginning and realize that not everybody just instantly knows this is how it

6:03Sarah Shearman:works yeah and i got a great piece of wisdom earlier it's a bit tongue-in-cheek from akil hunt who runs non-russell group lawyers i said what's the best bit of wisdom you've heard he said we're all idiots and i think there's an element of that is true right we're all still figuring it out we're all still learning couldn't be more true when it comes to ai so johnny the six themes of this year at legal tech talk are law and tech evolution revolution access to justice purpose-driven law collaboration and smart compliance which out of those speaks to you the loudest and why i mean immediately as soon as you said access to justice i think i mean you know there's a real uh justice gap actually in this jurisdiction and and and others um in terms of where you have a dispute which has a sizable claim value attached to it, but actually the legal costs make it prohibitive to be able to access justice and access the courts in a meaningful way.

6:51Sarah Shearman:And so that is one of the great things that actually AI online platforms are looking to do is actually to reduce that gap, meaning that more people can access justice. And I think ultimately that's a very good thing for this jurisdiction to be leading on. Yeah. And we always talk a lot about on the show and with Clio as well, I've got a huge mission in terms of reducing that access to justice gap and tech for good. So, Sarah, let's fast forward five years. Imagine we're in 2030. What do you hope one thing will be gone in the law and one thing that's done better in the law?

7:20Johnny Shearman:Oh, that is a tough question. One thing that will be gone in the law. I would say, I kind of want to say the billable hour, but I'd be really unpopular for saying that. I just, I kind of, it frustrates me, this sort of constant struggle between clients and law firms and trying to battle down the efficiencies and the costs and everything. And it always seems to be this kind of just complete tension that seems to be unsolvable. And as you know, people have been saying the billable hour is dying for decades and it never quite makes it. And it just, it sort of frustrates me that there's always that sort of, you know, barrier of sorts between law firms and clients.

7:55Johnny Shearman:And I really would just like us to evolve. And I also think it would benefit the lawyers, particularly at the more junior end, who aren't necessarily profiting to the same extent. But yeah, I think it would be healthier for everyone to be less focused on the billable hour and more focused on outcomes and deliverables and getting it done in the most efficient kind of amount of time.

8:12Sarah Shearman:Yeah, no, I'm here for that. Okay, Johnny, as someone who's regularly speaking at conferences, going out to events, what's one thing that surprised you about Legal Tech Talk? Oh, there's a real buzz. I mean, like an absolute real buzz about Legal Tech Talk, I've got to be honest with you. I think it's just the approach that the team's taken to this event. Getting like-minded people in a great location, giving us free coffee always helps. But also just thinking about the guests and the panelists and the speakers and its great content. And ultimately, we are also here to network as well. And I think that's been set up really well for us here at Legal Tech Talk.

8:51Sarah Shearman:I'm in no doubt that the team will be here next year and for years to come getting bigger and better as well. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's some huge names here today and just also great people from all walks of the legal community. So Sarah, as we look to close, what's been your biggest aha moment of Legal Tech Talk 2025 thus far?

9:08Johnny Shearman:I think today for me, it has been actually that as lawyers, it's so important for us to start exercising almost like a different muscle in our brains, which is that pure blue sky thinking, creative mode. We obviously do a lot of creative thinking in our day jobs as lawyers, but it's always within a framework. It's always within this sort of comfort blanket. And I think the legal tech talk has really driven home to me that actually in this sort of, you know, AI world, there aren't the same barriers and boundaries and rules. And actually we need to sort of get more comfortable with that and operating in that way and thinking with a bit more freedom and a bit more enthusiasm in that world, which is hard for lawyers to do.

9:46Johnny Shearman:But it's really nice to see so many lawyers here today doing that or taking that first step.

9:50Sarah Shearman:Yeah. And it's only going to continue to grow with things like today and the energy from today. So if people want to get in touch with yourself, Sarah, what's the best place for them to go or to learn more about your firm or what they're doing? Feel free to share any websites or any social media handles and also to you, Johnny.

10:03Johnny Shearman:Perfect. So the best place to find me is probably on LinkedIn. I'm Sarah Sherman. You can search for me. I work for Mayor Brown. That'll probably come up too. Mayor Brown has a website. It's full of insights. I write a lot of them, but not all of there are other lawyers available there are yeah exactly and yourself johnny uh always on linkedin

10:21Sarah Shearman:you can find me on there johnny sheerman uh please obviously go to the greenberg troard website as well we're putting a lot out a lot of content on there uh but you're going to find me on linkedin and chatting away probably with you rob so yeah absolutely and just to remind people johnny is a returning guest to this show so it just leads me to say thanks ever so much to both of you for joining me here live at legal tech talk but from now from all of us on the league speaking podcast sponsored by Clio over and out. Thank you for listening to this week's episode. If you like the content here, why not check out our world leading content and collaboration hub, The Legally Speaking Club over on Discord.

10:56Sarah Shearman:Go to our website, www.legallyspeakingpodcast.com for the link to join our community there. Over and out.