Back to School with Kate Bartlett: Why She’s Getting a Fashion MBA

0:01Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Let's Get Dressed. It's your host, Liv Perez. What happens when a very successful fashion creator decides to go back to school? The internet definitely takes notice. In today's episode, I got to sit down with Kate Bartlett, a longtime fashion creator and tastemaker who is currently enrolled in a luxury and retail MBA program at NYU Stern and has been taking us along for the ride with her. Kate shares her decision to go back to school in the midst of a very busy career, what it's like balancing content creation with case studies and the process and thought behind betting on a new chapter for yourself we also chat about the state of influencers how the classroom is completely reshaping her vision for the future and how she found her footing as a creative for those of you who have ever thought about going back to school or getting an education in fashion this episode is definitely for you and for those of you who submitted questions for kate on my Instagram last week.

0:59I also got a lot of those answered. So I'm hoping this episode is helpful for anybody who has ever looked into getting a higher education in fashion. Let's go get dressed with Kate Bartlett. Welcome to Let's Get Dressed. Hello. I'm so happy to have you here. Oh my gosh. I'm so excited to be here. And can I just say, I'm a Let's Get Dressed super fan and I listen every week. Oh my God. Thank you. I really do. That means a lot. It really does. I've wanted to have you on for a while and you know I'm an admirer of yours and I love everything you're doing. And you are so the let's get dressed girl.

1:33That is so kind. Thank you. I'm just so happy to have you here. And I feel like I've loved watching your career absolutely blossom. I actually found you for the first time. Do you actually, do you know the viral video that turned me on to you for the first time? No, I don't. But tell me this. And I was thinking this morning about the first time that we met. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I want to say it was the Golden Heart Awards with Michael course. It was. That was so fun. I feel like I was a child back then. That event is so lovely. And I always meet such incredible people. We were seated next to each other, right?

2:03Yeah. Oh my God, that was really funny. But the video that I first found you for, and it's funny because it's like kind of polar opposite of where we're at now, but it was your I'm going on a trip and I only pack things in a backpack video. That's so funny that that's the one. That was a while ago. You were, What? You must have been 20? Yeah, probably 19 or 20. Yeah. You were like at FIT. And I was like, who is this cute, amazing woman who is like really teaching incredible skills about living in New York and pinching pennies and doing it your way? I loved it. It was very inspiring. Well, thank you.

2:36Yeah, of course. Well, I'm excited to have you on today. I feel like a lot of people know about your career and a lot of people know about all the incredible things that you're doing and how you've gotten to where you are, but there's something that's been fascinating me since you joined, and that is your NYU MBA program. I am an NYU alum, so when I saw you on the campus, I immediately got giddy. How has your experience been? My experience has been incredible so far. I'm really excited to talk about this because this isn't something I've really talked about in super great depth on a podcast before, but I'm loving it.

3:13Also, where are you going on campus? Just tell me. I need to know. You know, I feel like I'm still figuring it out a bit. I have my places. I go to lunch. Everybody goes to Pura Vida. Everybody goes to this bowl. Spring Cafe. I'm not sure if it was the same when you were there. Probably not. Pura Vida wasn't there. I think Spring Cafe was there. It has been a long time, guys. I am a decade out of college. But I went to Gallatin, so I was like in that little bubble all the time. I loved NYU. It's really been a dream so far. It was honestly my dream college to go to for undergrad. but I ended up at FIT just because I really wanted to start in fashion.

3:49But it's been incredible. I really love it so much. And the people are so kind and so hardworking and amazing. So I've been loving it. I think there's often this conversation when people talk about going to college in New York. Oh, there's no campus. Like you're not going to have any, you're not going to have a real college experience. I think what you just said resonates so deeply because the people there are so wonderful that you do have this community while you're there. It might not be, you know, the idea of the classic quad and the football teams, but NYU really is such a great school for two reasons.

4:21One, for obviously the people that you meet, but also like you're so in the bubble of usually what you want to work in that it's very hard to not get bit by the bug and like want to go out there and do all the things and work and like pursue your dreams. For sure. My program is really incredible because it's very small. It's only 25 students. Oh, wow. Yes. So it's a really focused MBA. It's specifically in luxury and retail. Okay. NYU is great because they have a lot of focused MBAs that are specifically one year, which is really hard to find. I mean, honestly, an MBA normally takes two years.

4:53So it was really great that this luxury fashion program was one year because I don't think at this time in my life I was willing to commit two years of my life to going back to school, especially because I essentially have like a full-time job. Yeah. but it's 25 students, very diverse. It's mostly women. There are, I think, five men, but everybody wants to work in fashion. Everybody's so focused. And it's so different from undergrad in the sense that when I was at FIT, I loved it. And it was such a fun experience. And I always say, I mean, how many of us like really remember anything we learned in undergrad?

5:27Probably nothing. I kind of feel the same way. But FIT is so great about putting you in the right place at the right time and in the right rooms and immersing you and getting you to volunteer and get involved in the industry. So I will always ride for FIT being really the place where I started. And it just jumpstarted my career so much, even though I can't tell you necessarily what I learned in the classroom. But the difference in business school, I found people are so obsessed with actually obtaining this knowledge and actually learning. Like they're excited to do these projects, to do their homework, to, you know, volunteer to answer something in class.

6:02And it's such a different experience than undergrad. My husband said the same thing. He went to Columbia and got his master's there. And when he was there, he was like, you know, when you're an undergrad, you go to college and you're kind of like, you know, that's what you're pushed societally to do. Right. And a lot of times in your early 20s, you have no idea what you want to do. And you end up taking all these classes to fulfill requirements or, you know, you're you're trying things out to like just fulfill that experience. But if you go to graduate school, you're there because you really want to be there and you're actually learning things you really want to learn and you're fully invested.

6:36And a lot of the friends he made there are people that he works with now. And I think it's, if you're able to afford it and it's within your reach, I think it's such an incredible thing. In sharing with my community that I was doing this episode, it was so wonderful to see how many people were interested in higher education and fashion. And, you know, it's a small bubble. So talk to us a little bit about what that decision was and what informed you going back to school? So I had heard about this program. It's been around for maybe seven or eight years, I want to say. And I remember my mom telling me about it when I was in high school.

7:11And I didn't know anything about business school. Nobody in my family has an MBA. I didn't know anything about this. And I always kind of kept it in the back of my mind as something that would be cool. But transparently, NYU is very expensive. And at the time, I chose FIT because it was a state university and I couldn't afford NYU at the time. So a few years down the road, I've been working and doing content for three years full time. And, you know, I love this, but I'm always looking to be better and looking to the future. And what, like, I've been doing this for 10 years now. And I love it. I still really do love it.

7:44But I think when you've been doing it for so long, you're always kind of looking for what's next. Or, you know, I didn't also have a full college experience because of COVID. And I was talking Namate, actually. And she was the one who runs Data But Make It Fashion. She's a mutual friend of ours. And she kind of put the idea in my head, you know, have you ever thought about going back to school? And I immediately thought about this program at NYU. She was one of the biggest reasons I made this decision. So very thankful. So when she said that to you, what was the next step? It honestly immediately clicked in my brain.

8:16And I was like, I really think this is a great move for me now. And I started studying for the GMAT that night, which the GMAT was a whole other battle. And I know you said you got some questions about this. I did. I got a lot of questions about people who were like, how, what was the best prep to apply for business school? Like what got you there? There are a lot of people who are like, I really want to get into this. I had some people saying that they were on like their third or fourth round. What's your best tip? Well, for anybody who's not applying to business school, this is going to sound very boring.

8:45But for anybody that is, this is information that I wish I knew. I'm not applying to business school and I'm curious. Okay. Well, I didn't know anybody who was doing this. I didn't know anybody who had an MBA. So I just had to do kind of my own research. And I also was on a bit of a limited timeline. I decided, I think this time last year, so October last year that I wanted to do this, it was immediately like, I know that this is the right move for me, but the last admission round was in February. So I had to start studying then. And, you know, the GMAT people study at different lengths. I needed a lot of prep time because I hadn't done quantitative work.

9:21I hadn't done math like this in so long. So I needed to study a lot. So I used Target test prep, which sounds so brutal. It's basically like an online prep system to study for the test. But I really locked myself in my apartment and I just studied every single day. I would study on the airport and on the plane. It was so funny. I would have people like I would be studying on a plane with my whiteboard and doing my math problems in the airport. And, you know, girls who would follow me would come up and say hi. And they'd be like, what is this girl doing right now? Because I wasn't talking about how I was studying.

9:53But yeah, it was definitely a brutal prep process. I weirdly found, and everybody when I tell them this, they are like, what is wrong with you for thinking this way? But I weirdly found it a little bit enjoyable in the sense that it was a very tangible goal. And I knew, okay, I have to study hard. I have to get this score in order to get in. And I feel like maybe you probably have felt the same way with social media, which is great and fun, but it's sometimes difficult to have tangible goals that you're working towards because there's so much that's out of our control. So I think it was the first time in a while that I've had something that I knew was very much in my control.

10:29So I kind of enjoyed it in a sense. I want to dive into this a little bit, especially in terms of setting goals, because I feel that way frequently in this career. When people ask me, like, what are your goals? What are your aspirations? And I'm like, that literally changes month to month based on the state of the industry, new things that are popping up. If you ask me now and ask me in six months, it might be a little bit different. And I wonder for you how that informed your decision to go back to business school. Maybe someone could see you going to business school and saying, oh, she doesn't believe in influencers or she doesn't believe in the longevity of it.

11:01She wants to pursue a different career. And I definitely don't think that you think that. But I'm curious what informed that decision for you as somebody who already has achieved so much success? Well, that's very kind. Thank you. I definitely don't want to stop doing what I'm doing on social media. I really love it, but maybe I'm wrong. But I predict that in the future, the people working in-house at brands or in-house at platforms, you know, in the fashion areas, I think there will be a bridge between people who have this, you know, professional experience in these degrees and people who also have firsthand experience with content.

11:38And I want to be the best suited for those positions when they arise one day, if they do. I think you're 100 % right. Because one of the things, you know, when I sit down and I journal and I think about, which I don't do often, but when I think about long-term things, something is like, I would love to work in-house at a brand. I'd love to work in marketing and partnerships because at the end of the day, that's our job. Like that's what we do on a daily basis. And so you're 100 % right that bringing on that skill set is going to dramatically change your odds of being able to do that down the line.

12:13And it's not to say that like what you're doing right now isn't as important, but it's just setting yourself up for the success of, you know, making it out of the Wild West influencer industry. I'm curious. There's been a really big rise in focus on talent on social media who also have a full-time job. I see articles frequently of people saying, you know, the coolest influencers these days are the ones that go to work and share their experience. Have you seen an uptick in your engagement because you are going and doing this thing every day and sharing it back? I wonder if there's like validity in that statement.

12:47Definitely. Definitely. I think I entered kind of a new era for myself. And, you know, having done this for such a long period of time with social media, when people ask the hardest part of the job, it's that you have to reinvent yourself over and over and over again. You can't just do the same thing. If you want to do this for years and years. You have to kind of have new eras. And, you know, this was very much a decision for me and something that I wanted to do. It's a big time commitment. It's a big financial commitment. But I also knew that it was something that my followers would be interested in.

13:17I know my demographic really, really well because I talk to my girls all the time in my DMs. I know what they're interested in. So many of my followers came from my days at FIT where I was studying. And so while this was something that I wanted to do for myself and for my future, I also knew that would resonate with my audience and it definitely has. You have a like what 95 % female audience? Yes, lots of women. That's incredible. You know exactly who you're speaking to. I also, it makes me very hopeful and excited because it means that there's a very big generation of women who care about fashion and want to know more about it.

13:48And I think you're giving them such a good inside look into it. Talk to me a little bit about your day-to-day right now. How has it been balancing your career, which is incredibly robust? You're at Fashion Weeks, you work with incredible brands like Ralph Lauren, Louis Vuitton. How is it balancing that and going to school every day? I honestly, it's been intense. The summer period, because it is a one-year MBA, the summer period was very intense. It was nine to five in person, Monday through Friday. And then doing content on top of that was very difficult, but it's really taught me so much about my time management, about where my priorities are.

14:23And it's been difficult, but fun. And I have liked having this added structure in my life. Doing content is really great. And, you know, a lot of people say it's so great to just wake up every day and do whatever you want and make your own schedule, which is true, but it's also very difficult. Yeah. Do you feel that way? I don't. For a while I did after college. I was like, this is great. I can do whatever I want. But then you get to a point where having some structure in your life is really, really nice. Yeah. I do not feel that it's great. It is something that is a daily commitment and a daily practice for me to get up and structure my day myself and also stick to those things.

15:00I've always thought it's interesting how many creators I've met that are so introverted. And I consider myself to be an extroverted introvert. I love to go out. I love to talk to people. I'm very comfortable doing that. But I'm also very good at being alone. And I think that has helped my career a lot in a sense because I am totally fine to be by myself to do my thing. But I will say it can be very lonely when that's the only thing you have going on. So I've really enjoyed the structure and the community of having somewhere to be. I also think when you like let things marinate for too long, you overthink them.

15:31It's like when you have structure in your life, you only have X amount of hours in the day to get this thing done. You got to do it and you got to move on. Has it felt freeing almost to only have X amount of hours in the day to contribute to your content? I found I'm more, I have better ideas when I'm busy. I have more, I have much more to talk about now. So that's been really great. Yeah. But I completely agree. I had a lot of people ask about your career, of course. And I've always wanted to know a little bit about it too. Your style is so defined. And I think it's, to me, what really shapes your content.

16:04I love being able to see a post and be like, that's so Kate. That's very sweet. What has helped you find your personal style? Especially like, oh my God, I think about this all the time because I got on Instagram when I was around like 19. And when I look back at my outfits from my early 20s, I'm like, I don't know her. I love her, but I really don't know her. So for you, having been on social, even in your teens, like what has helped you kind of get to this point now where you're in your early 20s and have such a defined sense of style? I truly think it has just been time and trial and error.

16:39I mean, I have had many eras online. I mean, I look back at things I was wearing when I was 19 and I'm like, what was I thinking? I don't know I was wearing that. But and I'm sure I will look back at what I'm wearing today in five years and be like, Like, what was I thinking? No, you look fantastic. Wait, also, speaking of, walk us through. What are you wearing? Okay. What's this fantastic blazer? This is Ralph Lauren. Love. And then J.Crew cashmere. I love J.Crew. I'm really obsessed with it. I think that's the exact sweater I was wearing on my Instagram like a few days ago. It's really good.

17:07It's the crew neck one. Yeah. It's the perfect shade of red. We both co-signed this sweater. I love. I've been wearing it nonstop. It's so cute. Their cashmere is really nice too for a good price. Unbelievable. I mean J. Cruz had such a renaissance in the last I feel like two years. Thank you Olympia. Thank you Olympia. We love you. She's been on this podcast before. I know. I love her. I think that she's fantastic. I think she's completely reinvigorated the brand and I too stand by their cashmere. That sweater is like 150 I think. It's perfect. Good. It's so good. Okay tell us more about your personal style.

17:40I truly think it's just been time and trial and error. I mean I remember even when I was 21 when we first met and we were going to these events and I was looking at you and the other woman that were there and I was just admiring how polished you looked and it just took time. It just truly took time and figuring out what silhouettes worked on my body and what brands I like and what textures I like and what necklines I like and just took time. It's funny. I'm 31 now and I feel like I know now more than ever the colors, the shapes, the silhouettes, the pieces of clothing that look good on me. And I feel so confident when I can scroll through a website and be like, oh, I love that piece, but that will look terrible on me.

18:21And so I'm going to swipe right by it. Whereas when I was younger, I'd be like, oh, I'm going to buy that. And then I get it. And I'm like, why does this look so terrible on me? It really is true that time is your best friend when it comes to fashion. And whether you are taking like, whether that happens over 10 years, like it did for me, or whether you're someone who like takes, I always recommend like taking dedicated time in the week to just like try things on in your wardrobe. It's like so helpful to just like give yourself that what I like to call therapy. I completely agree with spending time in your closet.

18:50I will just if I have like a free Sunday afternoon, I'll try on a bunch of different outfits. I'll take a lot of photos of them. And I have a bank. I call it my my outfit bank and my camera roll. And I just put them all into there. And so when I'm packing for a trip or I'm just getting ready very quickly, I'll go to my outfit bank and I'll see all my outfits that I have. So you're taking a picture of every single one of your outfits that you ever wear. I'll spend an afternoon or an evening putting outfits together. Okay. Taking a picture of that and some that I wear day to day. I'll just throw in this camera roll that I have.

19:21That is so smart and so efficient. I really need to do that because something that plagues me a lot is I'm like, plagues is such a big word, but it really does plague me. I feel that. Because I'll sit here and be like, oh my God, I wore such a cute outfit in July of last year. Why haven't I worn it since. It's like I just throw things together and then forget about them. And I really think that having an outfit bank is the greatest move ever. It's great for packing too because, oh look, now it's getting colder and I'm like, I've been wearing my summer clothes for a while now. And I forget about these pieces that I have and I'll scroll back to last fall and I'll say, oh, I love that coat or that sweater is so great.

19:56So it's very helpful for transitioning seasons too. Obviously, you've had just such an influential career as to where you're at now. But I'd love to hear your insights on the state of influencers as it is because, you know, again, I mentioned earlier that someone could look at your decision to go back to school as, again, you know, maybe not a sign of faith in this industry and where it's going. What do you think of influencers when you think over the next 20, 30 years of life? I think we're here to stay and I think it will evolve a lot. I was thinking the other day, what I'm really interested in right now and what I'm very curious will happen.

20:35And I don't know if this is an area that I will personally be involved in, but right now with influencing, I'm fascinated by why live streaming is so big with men and with gaming personalities, but it hasn't hit the fashion and beauty space. So there was a point in time fresh out of like 2021, 2022 COVID era where live streaming I thought was about to hit it really big because people obviously were home. QVC has been such a big thing. There was even this app, and I'm forgetting what it's called, but there was an app that was dedicated all to live streaming. And they would basically pair you up with brands who would pay you to host live streams for them.

21:12Like you would go into Reformations store, for example, and live stream you trying on things in the closet. And I agree. I wonder why it hasn't hit. Like we have Instagram lives. Like why is Instagram Live not a part of maybe because Instagram Live kind of got a weird rep. But I feel like why is that not as big as it could be? Because I could see you doing such a great live there trying things on. We'll see where it goes. But I'm fascinated why it's so big with male creators and not with female creators. So we'll see where that goes in a few years. But if a brand came to me and said, hey, would you do a live stream?

21:49You wouldn't feel comfortable. No, I'd say no. Yeah. And I I don't think I would either, but I don't get it. I really don't get it. I don't get it either because how is that different from a haul that we would do on reels? Maybe we just have the capacity to be a bit more curated with it. I'm not sure. What's your gut telling you? I don't know, but I think that's something that people have been saying, oh, this is going to be the next thing for years and years and years, and it's never happened. And I'm like, I'm fascinated of when it's going to hit. I think it will at some point. I don't know when, but for in this general sense of creators, like you asked, I feel like things have changed so much ever since I started.

22:26And I always say it is so saturated and so difficult now. If I started posting the content that I post right now and I didn't already have an audience, I don't know if I, I don't think I would be able to grow to the platform that I have now. It's really, really gotten difficult. Growth is very challenging right now. I don't see it happening for a lot of people outside of TikTok. I think TikTok, you can see growth because the algorithm favors that, but it's really hard. I think that the creators that I look at now that I think will sustain are the ones that have this very defined lane. Do you think you necessarily have to have a lane?

23:01I think the thing about having a lane, as you say, or like kind of a niche or vibe about your content is that it helps the algorithm a lot. I think that's why we see it work because the algorithm picks up on this and people just love to look at something that's very cohesive. Right. I think people fit outside of that. I mean, look at Alex Earl. She does everything. She doesn't necessarily have a lane. But I think in terms of favoring the algorithm, when you have a specific style or a specific, you know, even way of putting your text on the screen or way of speaking to the camera, way of starting your videos, it really helps the algorithm recognize.

23:31And I think that's why people do that. Do you follow Atiyah Walcott? No. Oh, my God. Yes. Okay. She is, I believe, a Chicago-based creator. She's been on the show before and she has a very unique style. It's incredibly theatrical, very cinematic. And her engagement is so great. And I think it's because she's found this lane. But I think she's seen a lot of success with it. Let's go back to school. Talk to me a little bit about what your day-to-day is like there and what classes look like for you. You sent me a message recently and you guys were talking about fashion podcasts and Let's Get Dressed was on the board.

24:04And I was so happy to see that. No, I started crying. I was like, that's the craziest thing I've ever seen. But I more beyond feeling a sense of pride, I was like, wow, what a cool thing to be able to study fashion podcasts in school. So talk to me a little bit about your classes and what they look like. So my classes are a little bit all over the place. I got most of my more boring classes, my statistics, everything out of the way during the summer. So some of my days I can be on campus from 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. And those are my really, really long days. but my classes that I'm really interested in right now are like retail strategy.

24:38I have an amazing retail strategy professor. He works for Meta and he does AI at Meta and he's just so knowledgeable and everything that comes out of his mouth. I'm just like the whole class is just latching onto. Things like that are really fascinating. I'm taking some AI classes that I'm not loving, some that are a lot more difficult. But the thing that I love so much about this program is how focused on fashion it is. And every single consulting project that we do, we work directly with the brand. So we just finished one on Ferragamo and, you know, we worked directly with the team at Ferragamo.

25:10We're going to Florence in January to, you know, see where everything's made. So it's a very cool and hands-on experience. And I think there's not a lot of programs like this. Wow. Someone signed me up. That's incredible. Talk to me a little bit about the AI? What are you not loving about it? It's so hard. It's so hard. I think I got myself into the wrong class. It's all math. It's all math. It's not for me. So elaborate. What do you what's the subject matter specifically? It's just so complicated. It is so over my head. Is the AI, is it more like AI strategy and like AI statistics? It's understanding exactly how, you know, these models are made.

25:49Wow. It's a lot. Yeah, that's crazy. I actually was curious if AI was being taught in your program, you know, obviously it's boomed in the last two years if it becomes part of your schooling, because I'm sure that a lot of fashion is relying on AI to an extent. Maybe it's, you know, building algorithms or, you know, figuring out plans to run a store. Has that been a big conversation in class? Definitely. I mean, it's something that we talk about all the time. And I was curious when I got there, I had never used ChatGPT before I got to school. I mean, I feel like it recently kind of blew up, but some professors are against it, but I mean, they give it to us for free.

26:27They, for the most part, encourage us to use it. So it's really interesting. I think it's a disservice for you to not be learning about it because it is going to, I think, define so much of the future. I think, look, I am such a cynic when it comes to that stuff, but I've almost had to embrace it and like learn about it and try it because I don't want to feel like I'm falling behind on what could, you know, be very prominent in the next generation. It's scary, but it's true. It's very scary. Someone actually asked if there was something in your class schedule right now that feels critical that you love learning and something that could be improved on in your course.

27:07I think a lot of things, for example, like operations, so important, not something I knew anything about going into this, but it's something I know now that I never want to work on myself, but I'm really happy that I understand it now because it's really so critical in every single business. And I think that's been a really great part about business school for myself and for my classmates there. We've learned so much about what we love and about what we never want to do. And even with everybody that I'm meeting, I mean, all of the people in my cohort, we all have different strengths. People love different things.

27:40People love different industries. So it's great to have this network of people who are good at a lot of really different things. And that's super valuable. A lot of my friends that I work with now are friends that I work that I met at NYU. I wouldn't be surprised if you cross paths with a lot of them down the line. My industry is so small. It is so small. It's why I tell people never burn bridges. It's so tiny. You're going to meet everybody again somewhere down the line. Be kind to everybody. I mean, it's so hard to gain a good reputation, but very easy and very quick to get a bad reputation.

28:09So be kind, be on time. Be on time. I love that. Speaking of down the line, I'm curious for you, what does that look like? I hate when people ask me what I see for myself in like 10 to 20 years. But going to business school, I think, is a big move. And if you could see yourself in one position in 10 years, what would it be? I think at least what I can say right now, and this will probably change by next year or by next month. But I think right now I would definitely be interested in going in-house for a brand or in-house for a platform. Another big reason why I decided to go to business school is I would go to these events and these dinners.

28:49And they're so fun and they're so beautiful. And, you know, you're there with people from the brand and you're there with other creators. And I love meeting other creators and I love to pick their brain about their strategy. But whenever I was in these situations, I was always so much more fascinated with talking to the people who work for the brand or work for the company. And I want to know why were these decisions made? even why did you pick these specific people to be here? I'm so fascinated by that. So I think it would be very interesting to be on the other side of the table one day. What's your favorite class that you've taken so far?

29:17Definitely my retail strategy. I think it's very interesting. And like I said, it's really good knowledge to know, but there's also so many difficult things about retail that I would never have expected, but I'm fascinated by it. I don't know if I would want to be in it, but I'm fascinated by it. Is there a retail experience you've had recently that has blown you away? You know, we actually talked about this in our class on our first day of this class, and our professor asked us to come up with our most memorable retail experience. And I would say for probably 70 % of the women in the class, the most memorable retail experience they had was going to the American Girl Dolls store.

29:58That was my answer, and that was almost every other woman in the class's answer. And I feel like we don't do it like that anymore. I'm floored. You're 100 % right. You're 100 % right. I have the fondest memories of going to the American Girl doll store as a kid. Like I think of that. I think of FAO Schwartz. I think of these very interactive, very immersive experiences that impacted us as kids. But would it hit us hard now if we went as an adult? I don't think so. I don't think we have, we don't have it like that anymore, which is sad. What do you think it was about the American Girl Doll Store that worked?

30:37I think it was so magical. It was such a magical experience that I actually was walking home. I was walking home from a Broadway show the other day because I love Broadway. And I passed by the American Girl Doll Store and I was like, oh my God, it's still here. I mean, it's a tiny version, but it's still there, but I don't think it's as magical. They really did a good job of encapsulating everything. Like you would go in, you'd get your own outfit, you'd get a doll, you'd get their outfit, you'd go have a tea. It was an experience. It was like my first probably example of really great customer service as a child.

31:06Spot on. Yeah. And Build-A-Bear. And Build-A-Bear. Crazy that we're talking about this. This is probably not what you expected. No, no, no. I'm thrilled to be talking about this because I think those experiences inform the way that we shop today. And I'm like, someone needs to do a Build-A-Bear for shoes. Let me go in and be in like a Willy Wonka's chocolate factory and design my own shoes. I think I'd love that. What's your favorite store in New York? I mean, Bergdorf. Yeah. I mean, that's, I really just feel like the best experience, but I'm not really an in-person shopper at all. Wow. At all.

31:44I cannot tell you the last time I bought something in person. Everything online? Everything online. I've like really transitioned in the last few years, there's a thrill of buying something in person. I know. I'll never buy it on the spot. Like I will have had to think about it for a really long time. Like I think of like a totem bag that I got recently. I was thinking about it for a while and then I went in person and bought it because I wanted that experience. Also, all the totem stores are so beautiful. The one on the Upper East Side is stunning. I need to visit. Oh my God, I just want to live in there.

32:11But yeah, buying something in person is thrilling. It is. And you know when you go and you buy something and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm going to wear this to dinner tonight. That's the best feeling. No, it's life-changing. It's absolutely life-changing. But I'm primarily a secondhand shopper. I mostly shop on the RealReal. So do I. Besides that Totem bag that I got recently, and the only reason because I didn't buy them the secondhand is because they're priced the same on the RealReal than they are in real life. So I went and bought the RealReal one. But I will say this year specifically, everything I've purchased has been from the RealReal.

32:41Same. There's a lot a RealReal heat, but what do you love about it? I love it. I think, you know, you can buy a really nice$40 top on the RealReal or you can buy it at Zara and it's going to be much better quality and a much cooler garment, you know, that's something vintage or not vintage, but secondhand. They just have great pieces and it's fun. It's like a treasure hunt. It's a treasure hunt. And I also think I would rather spend$40 on a vintage Ralph Lauren top than get it from Zara. Exactly. For anybody listening who wants to follow your career path, is thinking about going back to school, what is your best piece of advice?

33:16My best piece of advice, I think, I mean, I think there's never going to, your money is never going to be wasted by educating yourself more and your time is never going to be wasted. And, you know, I always kind of joke that my topics on social media that I push out the most or that do the best are like my topics that aren't the sexiest. You know, I talked about budgeting or I talk about education. But, you know, I think being educated is sexy and it is hot and it's a great use of your time and your money. A modern woman, ladies and gentlemen, a modern woman. I love that for you. Thank you for coming on the show.

33:51Thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun. I loved hearing about your program. It's really inspiring to see you getting back in there. And from the second you started it, I said this and I'll say it again, and I can't wait to say it to you in 20 years that I think it's going to dramatically alter and define your career. And I'm excited to see you running one of the biggest luxury brands in a few decades from now. Thank you so much, Liv. This was incredible. Thank you.

34:37Thank you.