Heidi Bivens on Styling Euphoria, Kristen Stewart, and Redefining What It Means To Tell Stories Through Clothes

0:01Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Let's Get Dressed. It's your host, Liv Perez. Yes. I'm so excited about today's episode because some of my favorite episodes are the ones where I'm able to have on people who I admire so much in the fashion industry, but also am obsessed with their careers. Like they're nonlinear. They started one place and ended up another and their careers in the fashion industry that we might just not know or hear about often. So I'm thrilled to have Heidi Bivens on the show today. She is hands down one of the most influential costume designers of our time, using fashion not just to tell stories, but she has truly shaped culture and global trends.

0:40Best known for her work on Euphoria and Spring Breakers, Heidi actually began her career in editorial at publications like Vogue before making a very sharp pivot after falling in love with life on set. Since then, she's worked across film, TV, music videos, editorial, and she even authored her own book, Euphoria Fashion, which dives into her creative process behind the show's most iconic looks. If you are someone who loves to see looks come to life and the stories behind them, highly recommend this book. In today's episode, Heidi shares her very nonlinear path through the fashion world, how she built the visual identities of some of our favorite TV characters, and what it's been like working on her latest film with Kristen Stewart.

1:23I hope you guys loved today's episode. Before you leave us, make sure you drop down in Apple podcast or Spotify and leave us a kind review. I love hearing you guys's thoughts on every episode. And now let's go get dressed with Heidi Bivens. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. So excited to have you in person because we were supposed to do this earlier in the week virtually. And then you were like, by the way, I'm coming to LA and now you're in my living room. Yeah, it all worked out. It worked out perfectly. Okay. So tell us what you wore to pod today, because obviously, again, we're on the same page.

1:53Yeah. I'm always thinking about dressing other people and not as much about myself. This is an old Miu Miu shirt and just the colors are so fresh. So I was going to say, I haven't seen that Miu Miu logo in a long time. Yeah, it was a couple years ago they did like a capsule. Yeah. Yeah. With that logo. What's this perfect black tank that you have on? Oh, I got this in Japan. I forgot the name of the brand. I'll have to tell you later. But yeah, I'm all about a perfect basic. I'm going to Japan first time next month. Well, I'll definitely let you know. Please. Yeah. Yeah. You would have the best rec.

2:24So much great shopping there. It's incredible. And actually I was very excited to find out that there's Barney's in New York. I mean, in Japan, like Barney's New York, Barney's New York is in Japan. Why? I think someone must have bought the license and, and is able to produce it there, but they have brick and mortar stores and in the stores they have the Barney's brand, which I always loved. And it's really affordable. Well, the dollar was high when I was there a year ago. Let's see what happens with the tariffs. Oh my. Okay. I'm adding that to my list. Yeah. I miss Barney's. Yeah. Me too. Me too.

3:01It was a big part of my life. Even the one here. Like I miss going to Barney's Greengrass. Me too. It was like, you know, I would go to Barney's and I would be there for half a day. We have so few sort of experiential brick and mortar stores like that, you know, opening ceremony closed. And, And, you know, we've got like Bergdorf's in New York, but Prontemp just opened in New York downtown. Have you been? Yes. I went the other night. It's great. The boys who do Caperni, Arno and Sebastian have a collection they did with Disney that's out now. And they did an event and I went to support them and saw the new store.

3:36And it's incredible. It feels like those days of, you know, going shopping and having like a really nice experience. There's I don't. Yeah, I think there is a restaurant adjacent. I didn't see the restaurant, but there's a bar in the shopping area, which I thought is really smart. Love that. Yeah. Also, the shoe room looks crazy. And they have now they should be paying me to promote, but they have a room that is all vintage. And it's like very specialized high end vintage. And they have someone on staff who you can make an appointment with to bring your vintage to rework it. So if you have old pieces that have some sort of sentimental value to you or they're actually worth something collectibles but they just don't fit right or maybe they're too conservative or whatever it is that's just not working for you, you can go get a consultation and alterations to upcycle it to whatever the piece is.

4:40That's genius. I know. So smart. And I think more companies should do that. How do you get dressed every day? I know this morning you said you wanted spring, but are you getting dressed every day, like excited about a feeling or are you always basing it around a piece? It's usually more about a place. Like I don't think my wardrobe changes too much from New York to LA, but I definitely wear more black in New York, you know, like upstate. I have a specific wardrobe that I don't necessarily wear anywhere else. You know, I think. Like what? Is it more like athleisure? Is it really laid back? I'm feeling like it's definitely more casual and it's definitely more cozy.

5:20And yeah, so I think like when I'm in New York or LA, for example, where I'm traveling for work, I'm always thinking about like, who am I going to run into? And in New York or upstate, at least in the country, if I'm going to run into a friend, they're going to be dressed casually and if I was like dressed up in any way yeah it it might it might feel a little yeah like too much so yeah I think for me it's like I'm always sort of aware from a very young age of like what I consider to be appropriate although like I don't judge others so anything goes you know I really don't I I think that's been like really important for me in my work too is to let people have the style that feels comfortable for them and not to judge how other people dress, which is weird to say because it's seemingly a big part of my job that I would have strong opinions about people's style.

6:20How did you get your start in fashion? Wow. Okay. So it depends how far back you want to go. I mean, I grew up with a mom who loves fashion and collected fashion magazines. and also would dress my sister and I up and take photos of us. And in like different like settings, she was very into collecting Victorian clothes. So there was this like idea of like history and like a time past, you know. And so I think that made me more conscious of like costume and because it definitely felt more like costumes than like any kind of like modern looks that she would style us in. And so essentially my mom was a stylist for us.

7:01For you guys. Yeah. And then my sister and I, I think, didn't necessarily appreciate it. And it was sometimes very cringe for us. Right. What age did that stop? I mean, there's like framed photographs of my sister and I in my mom's house from like the time my sister was like in college. I think by the time I was 18 and I moved to New York, I was less available to her. But my sister still lived in Virginia where we grew up. So yeah, there's like pictures of her like in her 20s, like with my mom dressing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we humored her and it gave her so much joy. Right. And amateur photographer and yeah, and a love of of costume.

7:40So I think that that's like what inspired me in the beginning. And then like looking at fashion magazines and understanding like, you know, what a fashion editor was at an early age, like definitely while I was still in high school and then moved to New York and wanted to work in film, but didn't know anyone in film, but started working at magazines because I was also interested in journalism and then figured out what a stylist was. And this was the early days of that term being used. And yeah, it just kind of all like was intuitive from there. I didn't really get my foot in the door with film until I've been working in fashion for about five years.

8:21It's interesting that kind of editorial to costume designer pipeline is very unique. How did that happen for you? How did you go from one thing to another? Well, I always thought it was possible, but there weren't, you know, many examples of it. But Arianne Phillips was a really big inspiration for me. And, you know, since then she's become a friend and a mentor and I'm always so impressed with her and what she does. She's like, she's had her hand in almost like every area of costume and styling at this point, you know, like even done opera and theater. And so, yeah, she was someone who showed me a path to be able to, you know, have the courage to tell people like, you know, that I was interested in both feeling and styling and costumes and that it was possible because I think like definitely as a young person it was more about focusing on one thing and and if you like diversified people would be like confused like what it is you do where that's not an issue now now you can do anything and and be your own brand but at the time yeah it was definitely more singular and people weren't as open-minded to people doing lots of different things but she she like showed me the way before I ever met her.

9:45I call her like a chosen mentor because I would talk about her like I am now before I even ever met her. And also I think in our culture, it has so much to do with precedent. Yeah. It's like if someone hasn't done something before, people aren't open-minded to it. And so that was super helpful that she had been, she was working for Italian Vogue. She was working with Madonna. She was working on films. She was doing all these things across like, you know, these different industries and being successful at it. So it showed people to be more open-minded about that. Yeah. I can't keep, my brain keeps going back to this lovely visual of you and your sister growing up in costumes to now having that be what you do.

10:32Yeah. And I don't think I really realized that that was the impetus until I put together the book with A24 about the costumes of euphoria and I was tasked with writing a lot of the copy in the book and had never done anything like that before and I I love to write and and it it wasn't like a a scary thing to do but definitely a learning curve and and then you know when I wrote the intro and and I remember at first I wrote like something pretty short and the editor came back to me the editor who I was working with for the book and asked for me to write a longer opening. Expand on this. Yeah, she was like, hey, yeah, she was like, wait, this is, we want to know more.

11:19Yeah, yeah. And that's when I started thinking about it and realized like, yeah, I really do have to credit my mom. I always ask this question for fashion roles because I think it differs for everything. But do you think somebody needs to go to school or get trained, quote unquote, to do what you do? That's a good question. I mean, I find that for many careers, people don't really need to go to university anymore. Like, you know, there's so many resources out there in the world. Yeah. Whether it's like watching YouTube or it's just a different world we're in. I really feel for my friends who went to like NYU for four years and are still in debt.

11:59You know, you know, so many colleges are so expensive. And some of my friends like went to university for certain degrees and then aren't even using those degrees. So yeah, I mean, I think, you know, the school of life is the most important one. And it's nice that the industries that I work in, fashion and film and TV, that you don't necessarily need a higher education to be able to be successful in those careers. So yeah, so I don't know. I don't, I don't think it's incredibly important, but I do think when it's a craft position, like if you, you know, I mean, you can definitely learn in the field, but I do think that there are certain jobs and careers that it's helpful to, to learn from, you know, teachers and professors who are in the field and, and, you know, can share their knowledge, whether it's like, you know, Like I have young friends who are like at Bard and the professors there are actively working a lot of time in the field.

13:03Like Stephen Shore, the photographer, teaches photography there. Kelly Reichardt, filmmaker, teaches filmmaking there. So I think, you know, when you can find a school, a university that, you know, has teachers who are actually active in their fields, I think that's very valuable. I agree. I also agree with the school of life. I think in real life experiences, maybe being on set and turning for someone can sometimes be more valuable. I mentioned Bard because it's right by where I live. Yeah. And I do really enjoy the idea of teaching. Like that's something I might be interested in later. I did a course at Polimoda in Florence a couple years ago about styling and costumes.

13:46And I had the best time. That would be amazing. Yeah. I'm not in school, but I would sign up for that class. Yeah. That would be so cool. I actually just heard that USC just launched a fashion curriculum. Oh, great. Which is great. I'd love to see more of it. There's not enough. I think that's going to become more and more popular. I agree. Yeah. Especially in LA where there's more happening here now. Yeah. So what landed you on the set before you? I was sent the pilot script and I had never done TV before and TV was getting more and more popular to do as, you know, a job for costumes. and it you know that that industry also is is one where like if you haven't done the thing people think maybe you can't do it right you know so I thought okay here's an opportunity I should I should just do this because I've never done tv and and who knows make it make it yeah and and and I figure it out I didn't really I mean I had seen Sam Levinson's film Assassination Nation and my friend Rachel Danerbest who used to work with me on films who did Spring Breakers with me she was the assistant costume designer and then has gone on to do her own amazing work she costume designed that film and so I was familiar with with him but then even when I read the script I I'm Gen X not to age myself but I didn't really like know for sure like is this cool like should Should I do this?

15:11And I sent it to some Gen Z friends, millennial friends. And they were like, yes, yes, you got to do this. So yeah, so I came out to LA and that was only like, you know, maybe like three to five weeks and then had no idea what was going to happen because it hadn't been picked up yet. And then after HBO started the pilot and it got picked up, I thought, okay, I'll do this. And then after first season, I was like, okay, I'm not coming back because it was like really intense. And when I'm on that show, like I can't do anything else really. And then after the success of first season, I thought, okay, I got to go back and do another season just to sort of like solidify, you know, the look, what I had to offer to the show.

15:56But yeah, for season three, I've moved on. Costume design to me is one of the most fascinating things. I, like you, had a very interesting relationship with costumes growing up. I was a dancer and my favorite part of the entire process was putting on the costumes. It helped me become a totally different artist in those moments. And I was, I would work so hard to get roles for the specific costumes. So costume design for me is just, it's a world that I really deeply admire. I'd love to know for you, what's the starting point? Like when you got on Euphoria, how did you begin to create the visual language for what that show would be?

16:37Wow, it's a great question. I think it's a very intuitive process for me. I consider myself a very empathetic person. And I think that that enables me to put myself in the place of the characters. It's interesting when you're costume designing for an ensemble, because you are, if you're able to do that, like put yourself emotionally in the place of the characters to make decisions about what they would wear based on like actually like the feelings of the characters you're you're living with a lot of different characters in your head and I found that with Euphoria specifically each character weirdly sort of represented some like aspect of like either a phase I went through or something I experienced or someone I knew well so it was all very personal to me each character and I'd like to think that that's one of the reasons why when when people watch season one and two that it's something like authentic came through even though the show is like very heightened visually and sort of like you know we were world building in a way it's as much as it relates to some people's experiences i think you know it definitely was like a heightened version i often am told by actors what you expressed, which is that, you know, the first place they come is to costume designer to do fittings.

18:05And oftentimes that's where they're learning about their characters, whether or not they've done like the back work to, you know, think about all the sort of backstory about their character, or if they're relying on the director and the costume designer to fill in those details, it can be like highly collaborative. And that's really exciting to me. There are some actors who come in and just like want you to like, you know, tell them everything and haven't either had the time or, you know, haven't haven't figured out like the backstory for the character that's not on the page that you you need to to sort of understand in order to play a character authentically.

18:43but it's that's really exciting for me the sort of storytelling aspect and like oftentimes I'm writing backstory in my mind of for a character anecdotally that isn't on the page just for myself so that I can believe it so yeah so I like to think that as costume designers most costume designers they are acting as producers in a way you know oftentimes I'm called like a director whisperer or an actor whisperer because you know there are so many times and when you know something comes up with the character or part of the story or on set where you know I do have the ear of the actors and I am able to like help either move a situation forward or predict something that might happen with the storytelling or or a more nuanced way to either land a joke or to express something emotionally for a character, you know, through the costume.

19:44So yeah, I think it is a really exciting relationship with the actors as a costume designer to be able to empower them and enable them to do their job the best they can. That's what I consider my first and foremost to facilitate the director's vision. And then secondly, but also so important to be able to make the actors feel as comfortable as possible to do their job the best they can. How collaborative are we talking here? Because I'm thinking, you know, say Zendaya comes up to set and she doesn't like what she's wearing for that day, but her scene is a moment where she she's supposed to feel good.

20:26Oh, yeah. I have to listen to the actors every time. It's rare that that happens for me, but it definitely has in my career. And I always say to anyone who like is new to working on my team that you always have to have something in your back pocket. So you never know what's going to happen. Like even if costumes have been approved and you think everything's great and, and, you know, you, you've set the look and the actor is ready to go to set, they could have already traveled even to set. And then they get there and they whether they've like blocked the scene or they're rehearsing the scene and they have an idea about like or something just doesn't feel right all of a sudden yeah I I rarely push back if I push back I think it's because I believe that I actually have done more of the homework and I see I I can see a bigger picture for the storytelling because occasionally like an actor especially if they're super busy and they're coming in to a production that's already been underway and you know they're just figuring out the tone like on that day and maybe they work like a couple days on a very long longer production and I have been there and I've been working on it and I understand something that maybe they they don't about like the tone or their arc or you know whatever it is that's the only time I'll really push back if I feel like I'm actually going to help them be better and I'm going to help the story work better by pushing back.

22:00It's never an aesthetic thing really for me because like I said, like they have to feel good. What character for you was the hardest to crack? I actually think it was Sydney Sweeney's character, Cassie. And I've talked about this before. I like talked about it in the book I did with A24 because I just, I don't know, in the beginning, I was like, who is she? Because I think like when I was talking about how I relate to the characters in different ways, like I, I didn't really relate to Cassie. Like I've never been Cassie. I've never dressed like Cassie. Like I, so Cassie for me was like a hard one, but then in, in trying to navigate and deciding like who this character is, because you know, the, in the beginning also like, you know, in communicating with the director, I pull references and in thinking about like, who can I reference for Cassie?

22:53I was looking at Instagram a lot and I was looking at like it girls of the moment. And, and then I thought like Cassie is looking at Instagram. Cassie's looking at these girls of the moment. And so for me, Cassie from the beginning became someone who was like searching and sort of like trying on different ideas that she, you know, really has this longing to be accepted and to be loved. And so it really made sense to me that at that age, you know, a lot of girls are looking at social media and trying on different versions of who they think they want to be. And so I realized like I was sort of lost about who Cassie was because Cassie's kind of lost about who she is.

23:42And then it kind of clicked for me. And then from there, I like knew how to move forward. But there was a minute where I was I was a little stumped about Cassie. Yeah. Which makes sense because I think she is equally as stumped. Yeah. For me, the most iconic episode kind of moment was the spiral of Cassie when she was dressing like Maddie, trying to get Nate's attention. And then she ends up in that like Oklahoma style outfit in the bathroom. And actually, I remember that scene coming on TV and me seeing every single character in the bathroom dressed so to them. That felt like an encore for me of just everyone being so typically themselves.

24:23And just Cassie in that moment, there was so much storytelling with what she was wearing. That whole episode, I think, was about what she was wearing. How did you develop basically a spiral through clothes? Definitely full fantasy aspect of trying to get in Cassie's head and then you know this like progression of manicness and then how I could work with hair and makeup to to highlight that because I think like you know in these beats where she's like getting ready in the morning for school that you know for me didn't have to necessarily have this like crescendo that was forced because I had hair and makeup team to help add layers to that but the look in the hallway when she sees Maddie that wasn't on the page like that was something that I came up with I love costume designing for comedy it's really I think one of the most fun things for me like to be able to like lean into that and I'm always putting myself in the place of the audience and that's I think super important throughout any kind of costume design to like actually it's like if you're writing and you're putting yourself in the place of the reader but you know visually to like think like okay how how are we gonna like if there's like these beats where she's getting more and more manic and more and more desperate the final beat like how do we land that so that people understand that that's what was happening you know the clothes land the joke yeah exactly so I was really happy that Sam was into that idea and and the girls were excited about it and that it worked because it obviously became a meme and it was incredible and yeah so like I love making those kinds of contributions and that's one of the reasons why I'm definitely interested in doing more producing to be able to be creatively involved beyond just the costumes I think is really exciting but yeah that episode was so fun and and you know her her Oklahoma look inspired by Dolly Parton was a fun one to build she has really good instincts too Sydney me.

26:35She'll definitely, you know, let me know if there's like something that she feels like works or doesn't work. Yeah. She's great to collaborate with. You've worked on so many sets, Spring Breakers, Euphoria. Is there a story that from, from working on set that has like resonated most with you maybe because it was the biggest challenge or the biggest thing that you've learned? Well, I, I do feel like whenever I'm working with directors who see me as a collaborator and also trust me that's such a huge gift I think that's been the biggest thing for me knowing that the difference I have learned that when like with filmmaking when I am going to sign on to a project if I love the script and and I take a meeting that I also have to interview the director in a way that if I am coming from a place of like, oh, I want a job, I want to do this.

27:35And it's not a two way street. It can often feel later like one sided and not like a true kind of collaboration that that I hope to have. So I think, you know, part of what I focus on now when I meet with directors for the first time is do I want to work with this person not just like oh do they like me do they like what I have to offer will they you know offer me the job it's more it's two-way street it's like what do I have to I have to consider like what do I think I have to bring to the table creatively do I want to tell this story is this director a collaborative type of director, that kind of thing.

28:23But I always tell young people who like ask me for career advice and stuff, just, you know, I think it's so important to find your collaborators. That's like one of the most important things to do early on to focus on that, to like find people who are like-minded, who, you know, can become collaborators, consistent collaborators who you can build with and who respect you and will, you know, listen, listen creatively and value you. I love that. Even now, I feel like in my career, there are so many people that I met in college that I still work with. And that's so special. Absolutely. Again, you've worked on iconic sets.

29:00And I remember when Spring Breakers came out, that was the Halloween costume of the year. And when Euphoria came out, that was also the Halloween costume of the year. How do you feel about having built a costume almost for a show that has changed global trends? it's so fun to be able to do something that you know is going to become a halloween costume i think both times with spring breakers and with euphoria i didn't anticipate that for whatever reason i think now because it's happened several times now i can anticipate it and this project i just finished there are several looks in the film we're on set like as a joke to my team and and everyone on set i would say out loud while they were on camera you're welcome halloween because there's some oh yeah oh yeah and it yeah so fun and like when i work with great directors they make me better so dylan meyer who's a good friend who just directed this film i worked on the wrong girls she it was like one of the iconic looks for the two lead characters played by kristin stewart and alia shakhat one of the looks that we did it was her idea like she it wasn't on the page she like came to me and she was like I think we should do and so yeah so whenever I work with directors who have like a singular vision and who are you know Dylan wrote the script it's like loosely based on her experience with her best friend and but yeah when when directors have like a strong vision and and they bring it then it just it makes me better.

30:37You just know what's happening yeah I love that so we were talking earlier you're not doing season three of Euphoria You have so many other projects going on. You just did The Wrong Girls and a few other producing projects, which I can't wait to see you produce. Yeah, it's so fun to be involved from the beginning of a to develop a project. Just producing has been such a joy to have like the big picture in mind instead of just like the minutia of the costumes and to be able to bring on costume designers who I really admire. It's been so exciting. like Angelina Vito came on to a film that I associate produced for my friend Haley Benton Gates that won the Grand Jerry Prize at Sundance.

31:18Congrats. Yeah, it's called a tropia. It's really like an amazing film. It was a big swing for Haley and it really paid off. It's so exciting. It's Callum Turner and Ali Shawkat. And I just can't wait for people to see it. But but Angelina did amazing work on that film. And so, yeah, to be able to like tap designers who I believe in and And it's just been really fun. And also just to develop stuff from the ground up. That's awesome. You're working on The Wrong Girls or you just wrapped The Wrong Girls, right? We just wrapped The Wrong Girls. We shot in LA. Fun. Oh, my God. I love that. Yeah, we started prep the week the fires happened, which was, you know, really intense for everyone here.

31:55And but, you know, made it through and had an amazing shoot. And now Kristen and Dylan are getting married this weekend. So, so many big, big events for them as a couple. Kristen directed her first film, Chronology of Water. She's finishing the edit. So TBD when that will be released, but super exciting for her. And then Dylan just directed her first feature that she wrote and directed. So yeah, big, big year for them. Fun. I mean, I can't imagine. I would love to hear from you what it's like working with Kristen on set because she has such an incredible fashion identity already that I would be like, just come as you are.

32:34Just tell me what you want to wear. Well, the character she plays is loosely based on Dylan and they have very similar style. But it's a fictional character. So when I first started dreaming up what the girls were going to wear, I thought it was important for Frankie, as the character Kristen plays, for Frankie to not sort of mimic what Kristen wears in her daily life. because I didn't want her to look like Kristen. I wanted her to look like Frank, who Frankie should be. And, and also for the audience, not to think I was being lazy, but it just worked out that like a lot of what Frankie wears, does it fit into Kristen's wheelhouse because it made sense.

33:24Dylan, you know, has a similar style. And then it, you know, so there we found that there wasn't a real need to think too much outside of the box just for the sake of that, because what really was right for the character was to sort of lean into to that personal style that you see Kristen. And yeah, I mean, I love her style. She's an icon. And I'm one of the kindest human beings I've ever met. Oh, I love that. What's inspiring you like out in the world right now? Like, what are you seeing, whether it's like on Instagram, on TV, whatever it is, like, what is just kind of percolating in your brain?

34:00That's a good question, because I think like everything's like so oversaturated. It's like I think what we have like decision fatigue, all of us. Yeah, it's it's intense. I mean, I'm always really inspired by my friends, like personal style, like street style. You know, I do look at runway. I do look at what's happening in the collections and get inspired there. I mean, you know, I always love what Prada and Miu Miu are doing. I think, you know, there's definitely designers who I think are doing important and interesting work. I've been working with Stella McCartney a bunch the past couple of years and, and just her whole messaging behind, you know, how she develops fabrics and sustainability and not using fur.

34:43And the most recent campaign I worked on is all about promoting, save what you love and, and not using fur and feathers, specifically feathers, because there's so many designers that use feathers. And so, yeah, I think, you know, going back to this idea of like, in terms of inspiration for fashion, you know, as, you know, someone consuming that, you know, we have like choices, choices to make. And, and so I, I do really try to shop vintage as much as possible in, in the arts. I mean, I'm definitely inspired by, by music and there's, there's an artist, Nala Senefro, who has a album that came out recently, who I think is incredible.

35:23And she did the soundtrack for Benny Safdie's new movie that's coming out that I worked on, The Smashing Machine. And yeah, she's incredible and very like ethereal. I think I'm inspired by so many different things. I like to think that like inspiration for projects I work on is kind of like a mashup. It's like, you know, I'm borrowing from like lots of different places and then it kind of like comes together and hopefully feels fresh. Looking forward for you. What is the next world that you want to costume design? Like what's on your bucket list? Oh, I'm doing a film with director Panos Cosmatos, who did a film called Mandy that I absolutely loved with Nicolas Cage.

36:03So it's like a horror film. And he is making a film. It's like a 80s, early 80s vampire film with Kristen Stewart and Oscar Isaacs. But it's like world building for sure. Die for him. Yeah, yeah. And he's a producer on it as well. And I'm really excited about that. I've already been in creative talks with Panos about like what we're going to do. And yeah, just it's like almost like it has sci-fi elements in a way where like it's not like a straight vampire genre. Hopefully it'll be something. I know it will be something people haven't seen before. And just to be able to like dream up those costumes is going to be really fun.

36:42That's amazing. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Thanks for having me. Amazing to hear about your career, truly. Thank you. So great to have you here. And I can't wait to share this with everyone. person. Me too. Yay. Thank you. Thank you.

37:21Thank you.